RE: Expression Web
Ok, I have now installed VS2012 Update 3 and the various extensions, NuGet packages. (I still prefer VS2010, obviously) _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 1:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Expression Web VS 2012 Update 2 adds RTM support for WPF + SL. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:42 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Expression Web I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this page http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expression the following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803 that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
RE: Expression Web
Really? I much prefer VS2012... On 16/09/2013 4:12 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Ok, I have now installed VS2012 Update 3 and the various extensions, NuGet packages. (I still prefer VS2010, obviously) ** ** -- **Ian Thomas** Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Kean *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2013 1:58 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Expression Web ** ** VS 2012 Update 2 adds RTM support for WPF + SL. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:42 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Expression Web ** ** I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com ** ** On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this pagehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expressionthe following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia ** **
RE: Expression Web
I just wish they'd fix the toolbar / menu customisation so it would be as simple and straight-forward as it was in VS = 2008 before they WTF'd WPF'd the UI with no apparent benefit to the user. Other than for that (and not being able to use bitmap fonts - another consequence of the WTF WPF transition) I'd be unreservedly happier with VS2012. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Monday, 16 September 2013 6:35 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Expression Web Really? I much prefer VS2012... On 16/09/2013 4:12 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.aumailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Ok, I have now installed VS2012 Update 3 and the various extensions, NuGet packages. (I still prefer VS2010, obviously) Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 1:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Expression Web VS 2012 Update 2 adds RTM support for WPF + SL. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:42 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Expression Web I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.aumailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this pagehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expression the following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803 that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
RE: Expression Web
I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -Original Message- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K
Re: Expression Web
Moreover Adobe won.. really the core issue with Expression product line was it was built to take on Adobe to try and win over the hearts minds of designers to the Microsoft tribe. Its why you'll search anything related to Silverlight/WPF/Expression between 2007-2009 usually has an Adobe or Microsoft Evangelist (myself included) punching it out over who's got the biggest digital * ... Adobe won... and when it came down to justifying Expression Web's future it had little to do with actual adoption (which didnt size very well) and also the funding stream for the product got caught up in the MSDN ledger codes.. In that MSDN argued that BEFORE Expression products came online the subscribers existed therefore why should they splice off a portion of the funding to score in the Expression team's coffers? even though the download numbers were in millions... to them anyone who downloaded were just simply kicking the tyres not doing anything with it... so now the Expression team were left to not only ask for more funding (keep the lights on per say) as a product line but they also had weak if not any income stream to pull from (hence you saw those really weird deals with Expression Studio and Windows) to try and stimulate outside MSDN purchases. Then Bizspark also came along and annihilated any chance of a non-MSDN subscriber from buying the product given if you were a start-up Microsoft would just hand you the MSDN subscription for free if all you did was provide them with an ABN or LLC (US). Inside Microsoft there are no free products.. if you have $0 income you better be standing before an executive of some sort every 3months explaining how your product made another product's adoption rates spike a little. If you can't show positive revenue or influence (with evidence depending on how dumb the executive you brief - with us we found Steve B not as bright as people paint) then you better start getting your LinkedIn profile up to date or making better friendships with another division. (It could be different now with the re-org but i've not heard much in the way of difference... if anything its a little more crazy given the companies in this weird SteveB is out caretaker mode). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com wrote: I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K
Re: Expression Web
FYI: The Product Manager (just one) for Expression Web (Ed - previously Adobe Dreamweaver) was one of the smarterst minds in devdiv and the team writing the code behind that product were also equally up to the smarts.. so for me I always wondered why so much great talent got mothballed... The only thing that ruined Expression Web was the ass hats who control GPL codes for the company and devdiv vs Windows stupidity spilling over. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Moreover Adobe won.. really the core issue with Expression product line was it was built to take on Adobe to try and win over the hearts minds of designers to the Microsoft tribe. Its why you'll search anything related to Silverlight/WPF/Expression between 2007-2009 usually has an Adobe or Microsoft Evangelist (myself included) punching it out over who's got the biggest digital * ... Adobe won... and when it came down to justifying Expression Web's future it had little to do with actual adoption (which didnt size very well) and also the funding stream for the product got caught up in the MSDN ledger codes.. In that MSDN argued that BEFORE Expression products came online the subscribers existed therefore why should they splice off a portion of the funding to score in the Expression team's coffers? even though the download numbers were in millions... to them anyone who downloaded were just simply kicking the tyres not doing anything with it... so now the Expression team were left to not only ask for more funding (keep the lights on per say) as a product line but they also had weak if not any income stream to pull from (hence you saw those really weird deals with Expression Studio and Windows) to try and stimulate outside MSDN purchases. Then Bizspark also came along and annihilated any chance of a non-MSDN subscriber from buying the product given if you were a start-up Microsoft would just hand you the MSDN subscription for free if all you did was provide them with an ABN or LLC (US). Inside Microsoft there are no free products.. if you have $0 income you better be standing before an executive of some sort every 3months explaining how your product made another product's adoption rates spike a little. If you can't show positive revenue or influence (with evidence depending on how dumb the executive you brief - with us we found Steve B not as bright as people paint) then you better start getting your LinkedIn profile up to date or making better friendships with another division. (It could be different now with the re-org but i've not heard much in the way of difference... if anything its a little more crazy given the companies in this weird SteveB is out caretaker mode). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com wrote: I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K
Re: Expression Web
Interesting point of history - expression web used to be called..drum roll Microsoft FrontPage. On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: FYI: The Product Manager (just one) for Expression Web (Ed - previously Adobe Dreamweaver) was one of the smarterst minds in devdiv and the team writing the code behind that product were also equally up to the smarts.. so for me I always wondered why so much great talent got mothballed... The only thing that ruined Expression Web was the ass hats who control GPL codes for the company and devdiv vs Windows stupidity spilling over. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Moreover Adobe won.. really the core issue with Expression product line was it was built to take on Adobe to try and win over the hearts minds of designers to the Microsoft tribe. Its why you'll search anything related to Silverlight/WPF/Expression between 2007-2009 usually has an Adobe or Microsoft Evangelist (myself included) punching it out over who's got the biggest digital * ... Adobe won... and when it came down to justifying Expression Web's future it had little to do with actual adoption (which didnt size very well) and also the funding stream for the product got caught up in the MSDN ledger codes.. In that MSDN argued that BEFORE Expression products came online the subscribers existed therefore why should they splice off a portion of the funding to score in the Expression team's coffers? even though the download numbers were in millions... to them anyone who downloaded were just simply kicking the tyres not doing anything with it... so now the Expression team were left to not only ask for more funding (keep the lights on per say) as a product line but they also had weak if not any income stream to pull from (hence you saw those really weird deals with Expression Studio and Windows) to try and stimulate outside MSDN purchases. Then Bizspark also came along and annihilated any chance of a non-MSDN subscriber from buying the product given if you were a start-up Microsoft would just hand you the MSDN subscription for free if all you did was provide them with an ABN or LLC (US). Inside Microsoft there are no free products.. if you have $0 income you better be standing before an executive of some sort every 3months explaining how your product made another product's adoption rates spike a little. If you can't show positive revenue or influence (with evidence depending on how dumb the executive you brief - with us we found Steve B not as bright as people paint) then you better start getting your LinkedIn profile up to date or making better friendships with another division. (It could be different now with the re-org but i've not heard much in the way of difference... if anything its a little more crazy given the companies in this weird SteveB is out caretaker mode). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Sam Lai samuel@gmail.com wrote: I think they saw/foresaw that market disappear thanks to web apps and services like Wordpress, Blogger and other 'CMS as a service' sites. To be honest, it has probably made the web a nicer looking and more accessible place, lowering the barrier to entry substantially. For the rest who prefer to code, they'd know about VS Express, VS, Webstorm, Eclipse, Netbeans, Sublime Text, etc. -- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 15/09/2013 6:04 PM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Expression Web It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. But no home user, or low-tech user is going to ever see SharePoint Designer or VS Express (I don't use either). The old FrontPage filled an important product hole I thought and I really liked it back in 97-98 when it arrived (at least it killed HotDog and similar crap). Then it quietly disappeared and turned up mutated as Expression Web. Now it's gone again. Has Microsoft simply abandoned the product line of web design apps for home users? Greg K -- w: http://jcooney.net t: @josephcooney
RE: Expression Web
Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this page http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expression the following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803 that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
Re: Expression Web
I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this pagehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expressionthe following points to a link that is not available today - ** ** Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. ** ** I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? -- **Ian Thomas** Victoria Park, Western Australia ** **
RE: Expression Web
VS 2012 Update 2 adds RTM support for WPF + SL. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:42 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Expression Web I've not heard anything that indicates yes, the true marker for this will be Nov when VS2013 RTW's (if that date is even still current) if after that its not released then doubtful it will leave that state. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.aumailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is the Blend jumble still in a state of flux? At this pagehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/expression the following points to a link that is not available today - Additionally a Preview version of Blend for Visual Studio 2012http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=261803 that supports Silverlight and WPF editing, as well as SketchFlow is available. I know the Preview has been available for 9 or 10 months. Is it about to be released at MSDN? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
Re: Expression Web
Greg, Expression Web 4 (according to the link in your email) will be available for download for free. From what you said Expression Web is the tool you use and like for managing websites. It's not going to stop working. Why not keep using it? At least until you figure out what other people use and if Visual Studio will be up to the task? Or grab something like Sublime 2 (notepad replacement) and use that, or some other web tool. It's just text after all. :) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Folks, several weeks ago I discovered I accidentally didn't install Expression Blend with VS2012 because I thought it was the same as V4 and would be duplicating effort. After correcting this misunderstanding and reading more about what's happening with the Expression Suite I'm becoming rather bewildered. See official page HEREhttp://www.microsoft.com/expression/eng/ . *Blend* is now merging (sort of) with VS2012. *Encoder* will be absorbed by Azure Media Services. The future of *Design* is completely indecipherable from the wording on the site. *Web* is apparently being replaced by VS2012, and that's the bit that really surprised me. This is one hell of a shakeup. I used FrontPage for a few years after it came out, then I used Dreamweaver for several years, then I moved to Expression Web (and discovered it was FrontPage sneakily renamed) and I'm using that now for mostly traditional static web site authoring. Now I'm told that it will be replaced by VS2012 ... well, whoopee because that's a product I'm familiar with, but I never considered it a candidate for managing web sites. The old products were custom made for the job, maintaining databases of sites, cross references of links and publishing options, but VS2012 doesn't seem built for that purpose. Can anyone confirm that VS2012 is a viable and capable product for creating large web sites full of mostly traditional static pages? Perhaps it can do that as a subset of some larger feature set I've ignored. Greg K
Re: Expression Web
SP, I was mainly surprised that Microsoft are touting Visual Studio as a replacement for Expression Web, as they seem like tools designed for quite different purposes. Then I was wondering if VS has hidden capabilities that I should be aware of for web site authoring (I wasn't particularly looking, but I have noticed any!). You know, I often whined about the Expression products because they were distributed separately from the developer tools, priced separately and had a totally different look and feel ... and now they're mutating and dying off. Did the tech-heads not talk to the marketing people at some point in history? Strange days eh?! -- Greg On 14 September 2013 19:03, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote: Greg, Expression Web 4 (according to the link in your email) will be available for download for free. From what you said Expression Web is the tool you use and like for managing websites. It's not going to stop working. Why not keep using it? At least until you figure out what other people use and if Visual Studio will be up to the task? Or grab something like Sublime 2 (notepad replacement) and use that, or some other web tool. It's just text after all. :) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Folks, several weeks ago I discovered I accidentally didn't install Expression Blend with VS2012 because I thought it was the same as V4 and would be duplicating effort. After correcting this misunderstanding and reading more about what's happening with the Expression Suite I'm becoming rather bewildered. See official page HEREhttp://www.microsoft.com/expression/eng/ . *Blend* is now merging (sort of) with VS2012. *Encoder* will be absorbed by Azure Media Services. The future of *Design* is completely indecipherable from the wording on the site. *Web* is apparently being replaced by VS2012, and that's the bit that really surprised me. This is one hell of a shakeup. I used FrontPage for a few years after it came out, then I used Dreamweaver for several years, then I moved to Expression Web (and discovered it was FrontPage sneakily renamed) and I'm using that now for mostly traditional static web site authoring. Now I'm told that it will be replaced by VS2012 ... well, whoopee because that's a product I'm familiar with, but I never considered it a candidate for managing web sites. The old products were custom made for the job, maintaining databases of sites, cross references of links and publishing options, but VS2012 doesn't seem built for that purpose. Can anyone confirm that VS2012 is a viable and capable product for creating large web sites full of mostly traditional static pages? Perhaps it can do that as a subset of some larger feature set I've ignored. Greg K
Re: Expression Web
Well they wouldn't be flogging the one they are killing off would they? :) I'm pretty sure Visual Studio 2012 is more than capable of maintaining web sites. The extra site level file management stuff that I think you are referring to (been a long time since I looked at expression web/dreamweaver kind of tool) might be more challenging but I'm sure there's something there. I know there is a web site template. I just created an empty website (says its an asp.net website) and noticed that when choosing the location, there was an option to create it on Remote site (and the mouseover shows Frontpage site). So its probably there somewhere? :) On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: SP, I was mainly surprised that Microsoft are touting Visual Studio as a replacement for Expression Web, as they seem like tools designed for quite different purposes. Then I was wondering if VS has hidden capabilities that I should be aware of for web site authoring (I wasn't particularly looking, but I have noticed any!). You know, I often whined about the Expression products because they were distributed separately from the developer tools, priced separately and had a totally different look and feel ... and now they're mutating and dying off. Did the tech-heads not talk to the marketing people at some point in history? Strange days eh?! -- Greg On 14 September 2013 19:03, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Greg, Expression Web 4 (according to the link in your email) will be available for download for free. From what you said Expression Web is the tool you use and like for managing websites. It's not going to stop working. Why not keep using it? At least until you figure out what other people use and if Visual Studio will be up to the task? Or grab something like Sublime 2 (notepad replacement) and use that, or some other web tool. It's just text after all. :) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Folks, several weeks ago I discovered I accidentally didn't install Expression Blend with VS2012 because I thought it was the same as V4 and would be duplicating effort. After correcting this misunderstanding and reading more about what's happening with the Expression Suite I'm becoming rather bewildered. See official page HEREhttp://www.microsoft.com/expression/eng/ . *Blend* is now merging (sort of) with VS2012. *Encoder* will be absorbed by Azure Media Services. The future of *Design* is completely indecipherable from the wording on the site. *Web* is apparently being replaced by VS2012, and that's the bit that really surprised me. This is one hell of a shakeup. I used FrontPage for a few years after it came out, then I used Dreamweaver for several years, then I moved to Expression Web (and discovered it was FrontPage sneakily renamed) and I'm using that now for mostly traditional static web site authoring. Now I'm told that it will be replaced by VS2012 ... well, whoopee because that's a product I'm familiar with, but I never considered it a candidate for managing web sites. The old products were custom made for the job, maintaining databases of sites, cross references of links and publishing options, but VS2012 doesn't seem built for that purpose. Can anyone confirm that VS2012 is a viable and capable product for creating large web sites full of mostly traditional static pages? Perhaps it can do that as a subset of some larger feature set I've ignored. Greg K attachment: 14-09-2013 5-36-32 PM.png
Re: Expression Web
Expression Web was mothballed in 2009 .. Ed the ex Product Manager was packing his boxes around then when I walked into his Office and asked wtf was going on. That product has been put out to pasture for so long now i doubt anyone in Microsoft even realises its still being downloaded... It lost out due to Sharepoint Designer or whatever that has now mutated into and there was no point competing with Sharepoint Designer + VS Express as it just created way to much internal bad blood. just 2c. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Well they wouldn't be flogging the one they are killing off would they? :) I'm pretty sure Visual Studio 2012 is more than capable of maintaining web sites. The extra site level file management stuff that I think you are referring to (been a long time since I looked at expression web/dreamweaver kind of tool) might be more challenging but I'm sure there's something there. I know there is a web site template. I just created an empty website (says its an asp.net website) and noticed that when choosing the location, there was an option to create it on Remote site (and the mouseover shows Frontpage site). So its probably there somewhere? :) On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: SP, I was mainly surprised that Microsoft are touting Visual Studio as a replacement for Expression Web, as they seem like tools designed for quite different purposes. Then I was wondering if VS has hidden capabilities that I should be aware of for web site authoring (I wasn't particularly looking, but I have noticed any!). You know, I often whined about the Expression products because they were distributed separately from the developer tools, priced separately and had a totally different look and feel ... and now they're mutating and dying off. Did the tech-heads not talk to the marketing people at some point in history? Strange days eh?! -- Greg On 14 September 2013 19:03, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Greg, Expression Web 4 (according to the link in your email) will be available for download for free. From what you said Expression Web is the tool you use and like for managing websites. It's not going to stop working. Why not keep using it? At least until you figure out what other people use and if Visual Studio will be up to the task? Or grab something like Sublime 2 (notepad replacement) and use that, or some other web tool. It's just text after all. :) On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Folks, several weeks ago I discovered I accidentally didn't install Expression Blend with VS2012 because I thought it was the same as V4 and would be duplicating effort. After correcting this misunderstanding and reading more about what's happening with the Expression Suite I'm becoming rather bewildered. See official page HEREhttp://www.microsoft.com/expression/eng/ . *Blend* is now merging (sort of) with VS2012. *Encoder* will be absorbed by Azure Media Services. The future of *Design* is completely indecipherable from the wording on the site. *Web* is apparently being replaced by VS2012, and that's the bit that really surprised me. This is one hell of a shakeup. I used FrontPage for a few years after it came out, then I used Dreamweaver for several years, then I moved to Expression Web (and discovered it was FrontPage sneakily renamed) and I'm using that now for mostly traditional static web site authoring. Now I'm told that it will be replaced by VS2012 ... well, whoopee because that's a product I'm familiar with, but I never considered it a candidate for managing web sites. The old products were custom made for the job, maintaining databases of sites, cross references of links and publishing options, but VS2012 doesn't seem built for that purpose. Can anyone confirm that VS2012 is a viable and capable product for creating large web sites full of mostly traditional static pages? Perhaps it can do that as a subset of some larger feature set I've ignored. Greg K
Expression Web
Folks, several weeks ago I discovered I accidentally didn't install Expression Blend with VS2012 because I thought it was the same as V4 and would be duplicating effort. After correcting this misunderstanding and reading more about what's happening with the Expression Suite I'm becoming rather bewildered. See official page HEREhttp://www.microsoft.com/expression/eng/ . *Blend* is now merging (sort of) with VS2012. *Encoder* will be absorbed by Azure Media Services. The future of *Design* is completely indecipherable from the wording on the site. *Web* is apparently being replaced by VS2012, and that's the bit that really surprised me. This is one hell of a shakeup. I used FrontPage for a few years after it came out, then I used Dreamweaver for several years, then I moved to Expression Web (and discovered it was FrontPage sneakily renamed) and I'm using that now for mostly traditional static web site authoring. Now I'm told that it will be replaced by VS2012 ... well, whoopee because that's a product I'm familiar with, but I never considered it a candidate for managing web sites. The old products were custom made for the job, maintaining databases of sites, cross references of links and publishing options, but VS2012 doesn't seem built for that purpose. Can anyone confirm that VS2012 is a viable and capable product for creating large web sites full of mostly traditional static pages? Perhaps it can do that as a subset of some larger feature set I've ignored. Greg K
