Re: A thread to check - as bad as babywise

[TinaPettigrew]

In a message dated 25/01/02 3:01:00 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I have just pasted this in here for your interest - THESE are Australian mainstream mums -it is very scary -I cant believe how anyone can be so disconnected from their babies -or advocate such horror!
 This is why I am looking for gentle voices to invclude in my crying book - I dont see any point in doing 'another one the same as the others'  with a 'one size fits all 'approach we and our babies are individuals so there really isnt one 'way' but there is a lot of pressure happening out there.
Pinky

Hi Pinky..

just reading these women's acedotes just demonstrates to me the lack of education these women have received with regards to BF..and what demand BF is all about. I too wonder what/who causes women to become so fixated on babies sleeping through the night as newborns etcIt seems from these stories to be totally consuming for these women.Education again would seem to be the key, and some work on affirming these women in their OWN abilities to be mothers to their babies - rather than seeking approval/advice from such crappy sources as these 'quick fix' books. Whilst these sleep settling techniques/regimes may seemingly work in the short term..what of their effects on these children in the long term?? Noone so far has been able to tell me that 

An anecdote of my own - a friend who was once a 'controlled modified comforting' advocateA personal friend has her first babe well into her thirties - highly educated woman, very powerful and assertive in many facets of her life. Life style very structured/busy and remarked many a time throughout her pregnancy that ."the baby will have to just fit in with MY life"...

Surprise, surprise !!! This woman discovers that babies are little individuals with their own agendas and she was not 'coping' well with her lived experience of motherhood. Sleep deprivedexhausted and hating BF cos it was soo "time consuming"..she trotted off at 9 weeks with babe to a sleep clinic for two weeks to get some rest and assistance in helping her to settle the babe and 'GET HIM TO SLEEP THRU' !

True to form she returned home "a new women" and this place "was a god send" and she set about recruiting every women she knew to try this 'modified control comforting' technique she had been taught. On visiting one afternoon I had to make excuses to leave as I was sooo over listening about how wonderful controlled crying was and having to sit and try to speak over a screaming/distressed baby who had no interest at all in being "put down" as per the regime.and left to scream all alone, no comfort at all; no mother love, no mother breast smell, no breast milk - the "milk bar's closed pal" no comforting/soothing touch, no soothing words. This babe was left as per instructions: Do not speak to him, do not make eye contact with him - roll him over AWAY from you, tuck him in securely and walk away..ONLY revisit after 5 minutes... and gradually let the time get longer and longer

Sure this worked for a while - this baby learnt that his mother would dessert him and no point in crying cos she's not coming back. So 'cured'... this baby slept then thru the night from about 3.5 months old and BF soon diminished too not long after this.

So what's my point in all this rambling...for this woman this method was a "quick fix" that got her through that period of her life. only to manifest again when this child turned two. He no longer then slept through the night, constantly waking (4-5 times a night) and screaming for his mother...He is now eight (still wakes 2-3 times a night) and at school and has "severe separation issues" with his mothervery insecure little boy who walks the house searching for her when ever she's out of his sight. This woman NOW detests 'control crying/modifed control comforting' or what ever else we label it..as she believes this to "have caused" her son's distrust of her... his insecurities and devastating separation issues. I now can only watch as she peels him off her leg and says "Mummy's only going to the toilet and won't be a minute" and ends up with him standing in the toilet with her !!

Yours in birth,

Tina Pettigrew
Birthworks
Independent CBE and aspiring B.Mid Midwife.
Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

" As we trust the flowers to open to new life
   - So we can trust birth"
Harriette Hartigan.
--- 

babytraining

[Pinky McKay]

Go Jo!
you are absolutely right - from the stories I have 
from mothers it is exactly the lack of support,the pressureand the dearth 
of instruction manuals that sees mothers believing they must 'teach' 
their babies to sleep 'properly'.
Having had a very ill husband for the last 5 months 
I have once again realised how little actual support is available for all 
families and how difficult it is to access when one is 'in the middle' of a 
crisis - with demands on your energy and an unclear mind - as is a new mother/ 
family with a crying baby/raging hormones and lots of 'advice' but no 
actual practical help . These factors most certainly affect how we buckle under 
pressure even when it doesnt feel right -especially if this is the only "help" 
we are offered.
Please can I include your comments? 
Pinky
www.pinky-mychild.com

over-active thyroid problems.

[Steve & Janine Clark]

Hi all,
 
Is anyone out there familiar with thyroid 
problems?
 
Have a friend who has an over-active thyroid... her 
doctor wants her to have radioactive iodine tests. She's planning pregnancy in 
the next 12 months - is concerned about the effects of the testing on her eggs, 
and also of going ahead with a pregnancy whilst avoiding thyroid medications. 
(not currently on anything). 
 
She's also concerned about the link between thyroid 
and fertility... currently has 2 children, but would like more.
 
Any internet links or info would be 
great.
 
Regards,
Janine

Re: possible way to get the message across

[Toni Cannard]

I heard that the reason older babies are used in TV birth scenes is to do 
with the Actors Equity rules - and that there are similar rules in other 
western countries that very young babies cannot be used on TV - 
documentaries excepted, of course.

Regards,
Toni

>From: "Jo Slamen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Jo Slamen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Midwifery List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Rhonda" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
>Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:51:38 +1100
>
>I must say I did watch the Neighbours episode, partly because I am 31 weeks
>preg (2nd baby), and always interested/amused to see how birth is portrayed
>on telly.  That baby was huge - I think he/she was at least 6-8 weeks old
>anyway.  But it's another commonly done thing on TV isn't it?  I guess it's
>hard to get your hands on someone's absolute brand new-y - but, as you
>mention Rhonda, they could've perhaps tried to find a littler baby - even a
>2-4 week-er for the purpose.  The child they used was also perfectly smooth
>and peach-y coloured etc.  My son was 3830g at birth, and has a beautiful
>olive complexion now, and he had Apgars of 9 & 10 at birth, but he looked
>very much whiter, wrinklier and screwed up at birth than that peach of a
>baby.
>
>Another interesting point is that Rhonda raises, does anyone recollect in
>recent times, seeing a woman portrayed having anything other than her first
>child?  Particularly in a serial TV show.  I think it's because the
>transition from childless to family in itself has more dramatic value...?
>
>Shall be very interesting to note if the child on Neighbours is breastfed,
>and if so, whether they bother to portray it for very long... odds on they
>don't
>
>Jo Slamen
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:24 AM
>Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
>
>
> > I didn't watch the Neighbours thing but did see the adds - that prem at 
>33
> > weeks was a nice sized full term baby as far as that goes they should 
>have
> > at least shown the size of a 33 week baby - mothers would be quite 
>shocked
> > if they expected a nice big baby like that to come out at 33 weeks.
> > And I agree they are all too busy making it hospitals and doctors and
> > dramatics -  If they want dramatics perhaps they should be encouraged to
> > show a woman fighting for the right to choose a homebirth (surounding 
>the
> > insurance issue) or even a VBAC would be a good angle - to get some of 
>the
> > message across.
> > Just can't believe anything you see on TV!
> > Regards
> > Rhonda
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> >
> >
> > > Far cry from the ER episode that had one of my homebirth mums in a
>state.
> > It
> > > was about shoulder dystocia and the mother had a Zavanelli manouvre, 
>was
> > > caesared in the ER, died of a pph and the baby lived. What did they
>think
> > > they were doing!
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 AM
> > > Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > >
> > >
> > > > That would have been "A Country Practice". Actually, if I remember
> > rightly
> > > > when Lucy gave birth she used a lot of support from the nursing 
>staff,
> > and
> > > > spent most of her labour in the shower.
> > > > Kirsten
> > > > having flashbacks in  Minnesota, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >To: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > > > >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:23:06 +1000
> > > > >
> > > > >I seem to remember an Aussie soap from years ago where Vicki (the
>local
> > > > >vet) gave birth to twins in a shed, all by herself and all was OK.
>Far
> > > cry
> > > > >from the way TV portrays birth today.
> > > > >Regards, Lynne
> > > > >   - Original Message -
> > > > >   From: Lois Wattis
> > > > >   To: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > > > >   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:58 PM
> > > > >   Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   Great idea, Jo.  I hope you or others persue it further.  Had a
> > > chuckle
> > > > >about "hog tying the 2 year old".  Reminds me of when my kids were
> > > > >littlemy sister (older and wiser than me) used to refer to it 
>as
> > "the
> > > > >hook on the wall stage" - i.e. if you could just hang them up for a
> > while
> > > > >out of harms way all would be well.  Keep up the great work, 
>Cheers,
> > Lois
> > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > 

current conversation

[Dean & Jo Bainbridge]

Hi everyone,
I must admit that after reading Pinky's last 
posting I checked out the web site she spoke of.  It is scary to read but I 
am talking from the position of mother of three.  With my first I had no 
idea, no direction and no constructive help.  These sorts of books were 
being thrust at me and I found it heart breaking to feel that this was the way 
we were meant to raise our children.  I did not know how to get my baby to 
sleep 'properly and was grappling with sleep deprivation and an extended 
physical recovery after cs. I tried doing controlled crying and sat many a 
night with tears pouring down my face listening to my infant son screaming for 
comfort...he had been 'hugged' by me for 9 months and now left 
alone.
 What I didn't know was that all babies are 
individuals and this is so from birth to death.  I get very angry at the 
people who give such advice to new mothers and put pressure on them to achieve a 
'normality' with very strict methods.  When it fails (as it often does) the 
mother is left feeling more desperate than before...welcome PPD!
It is hard for new mums who don't have support 
networks.  It is usually the second and third child that we start taking 
'chill pills' (no I am not referring to Zoloft!) and let go of the tight grip on 
what 'should' be done.  I have me baby sleep with me and hug him all night, 
he sleeps all night...far cry from what I made my first go through.
it is the same with what we are all about with 
birth.  It is through support, education, respect and experience that we as 
women overcome the (impossible) demands and expectations that this society 
enforces on us.  The society we live in is FAR from pregnancy, birth and 
baby friendlyno matter what Johnny Howard says!
Okay...this is Jo exiting stage right off her soap 
box!!  
cheers everyone
Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 
08 8365 7059birth with trust, faith & love...

birth.com.au

[birth.com.au]

Hi

I have just joined ozmidwifery, I know I should have long before this, but I
have been so busy, it has not been so much of a priority. However, since
retiring last year from my 6 year homebirth practise in Sydney, I have spent
the last 2 years working on my new 'baby' the birth.com.au website, which
launched just before Christmas.

Essentially it is teaching childbirth education classes online, with an
extensive reference libarary for parents (as well as interested health
professionals). It covers everything from how to conceive, to breech,
placenta previa, Diabetes in pregnancy (and many other health conditions),
Hep B, Vitamin K, management of 3rd stage, breastfeeding problems, sleep and
settle to when the baby is about 3 to 6 months old, ending with
contraception for the parents.

It is based on the latest research findings (and will be continually
updated), written in an unbiased and 'informed decision making' format! We
cover all aspects from partners concerns to "What to expect from your
caregiver" at various stages of the pregnancy and labour, in the hospital
setting, birth centre setting, and home birth setting.

I have worked on this project with my close friend Sandra Robinson (an
experienced childbirth educator). At present it has about 900,000 words
worth of content and over 600 images (and growing).

If there is anyone interested in having a free 24 hour passcode to view the
subscribed content, they can contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Any feedback is welcome

kind regards

Catherine (Cate) Price

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This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: possible way to get the message across

[Jayne]

I remember reading about this once - they are only allowed to use babies of
a certain age in tv shows and that is why newborns never look like newborns
on TV!

Also, about the baby on Neighbours being b/fed - I doubt it.  I saw the
cover of TV Week with the proud new parents and baby with bottle shoved in
its mouth.  Another wonderful example!!!

Jayne


- Original Message -
From: Jo Slamen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Midwifery List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Rhonda
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across


> I must say I did watch the Neighbours episode, partly because I am 31
weeks
> preg (2nd baby), and always interested/amused to see how birth is
portrayed
> on telly.  That baby was huge - I think he/she was at least 6-8 weeks old
> anyway.  But it's another commonly done thing on TV isn't it?  I guess
it's
> hard to get your hands on someone's absolute brand new-y - but, as you
> mention Rhonda, they could've perhaps tried to find a littler baby - even
a
> 2-4 week-er for the purpose.  The child they used was also perfectly
smooth
> and peach-y coloured etc.  My son was 3830g at birth, and has a beautiful
> olive complexion now, and he had Apgars of 9 & 10 at birth, but he looked
> very much whiter, wrinklier and screwed up at birth than that peach of a
> baby.
>
> Another interesting point is that Rhonda raises, does anyone recollect in
> recent times, seeing a woman portrayed having anything other than her
first
> child?  Particularly in a serial TV show.  I think it's because the
> transition from childless to family in itself has more dramatic value...?
>
> Shall be very interesting to note if the child on Neighbours is breastfed,
> and if so, whether they bother to portray it for very long... odds on they
> don't
>
> Jo Slamen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:24 AM
> Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
>
>
> > I didn't watch the Neighbours thing but did see the adds - that prem at
33
> > weeks was a nice sized full term baby as far as that goes they should
have
> > at least shown the size of a 33 week baby - mothers would be quite
shocked
> > if they expected a nice big baby like that to come out at 33 weeks.
> > And I agree they are all too busy making it hospitals and doctors and
> > dramatics -  If they want dramatics perhaps they should be encouraged to
> > show a woman fighting for the right to choose a homebirth (surounding
the
> > insurance issue) or even a VBAC would be a good angle - to get some of
the
> > message across.
> > Just can't believe anything you see on TV!
> > Regards
> > Rhonda
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> >
> >
> > > Far cry from the ER episode that had one of my homebirth mums in a
> state.
> > It
> > > was about shoulder dystocia and the mother had a Zavanelli manouvre,
was
> > > caesared in the ER, died of a pph and the baby lived. What did they
> think
> > > they were doing!
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 AM
> > > Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > >
> > >
> > > > That would have been "A Country Practice". Actually, if I remember
> > rightly
> > > > when Lucy gave birth she used a lot of support from the nursing
staff,
> > and
> > > > spent most of her labour in the shower.
> > > > Kirsten
> > > > having flashbacks in  Minnesota, USA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >To: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > > > >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:23:06 +1000
> > > > >
> > > > >I seem to remember an Aussie soap from years ago where Vicki (the
> local
> > > > >vet) gave birth to twins in a shed, all by herself and all was OK.
> Far
> > > cry
> > > > >from the way TV portrays birth today.
> > > > >Regards, Lynne
> > > > >   - Original Message -
> > > > >   From: Lois Wattis
> > > > >   To: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > > > >   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:58 PM
> > > > >   Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   Great idea, Jo.  I hope you or others persue it further.  Had a
> > > chuckle
> > > > >about "hog tying the 2 year old".  Reminds me of when my kids were
> > > > >littlemy sister (older and wiser than me) used to refer to it
as
> > "the
> > > > >hook on the wall stage" - i.e. if you could just hang them up for a
> > while
> > > > >out of harms way all would be well.  Keep up the great work,
C

A thread to check - as bad as babywise

[Pinky McKay]

  
  

   
   
   
   
  New Member 
 posted 24 January 2002 02:33 AM 
            
  
  
  I've heard some people mention "control crying" here. Can anyne explain 
  what this means?Thanks.
  
  
Power 
  OrchidMember 
 posted 24 January 2002 08:45 AM 
            
  
  
  http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/ubb/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/000929.html 

  try this forum it has alot of 
info.
I have just pasted this in here for your interest - 
THESE are Australian mainstream mums -it is very scary -I cant believe how 
anyone can be so disconnected from their babies -or advocate such 
horror!
 This is why I am looking for gentle voices to 
invclude in my crying book - I dont see any point in doing 'another one the same 
as the others'  with a 'one size fits all 'approach we and our babies are 
individuals so there really isnt one 'way' but there is a lot of pressure 
happening out there.
Pinky
 


icon1.gif
Description: GIF image


profile.gif
Description: GIF image


edit.gif
Description: GIF image

neighbours baby

[Pinky McKay]

I seem to recall a promo pic of the neighbours baby 
(havent seen the program lately) in a suoermarket or somehwere (maybe on TV week 
in the news stands) being bottle fed !!! Not good.
Pinky

Just can't believe anything you see on TV!

[Dean & Jo Bainbridge]

Just can't 
believe anything you see on TV!
The problem is 
that those who havent had children DO believe what is on tv.  we are being 
brainwashed to see birth depicted as the dangerous event.  It is not 
surprising that with the medical est backing this notion that birth is seen the 
way it is..
sorry if this 
doesnt make  sense...got baby in one arm trying to explain to 2yo why he 
cant use the carving knife to cut playdoh as well as negotiating with 4 yo about 
dressing the cat.!  Where is that hook Lois??
Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 
08 8365 7059birth with trust, faith & love...

Re: possible way to get the message across

[Rhonda]

Jo says..

. " My son was 3830g at birth, and has a beautiful
> olive complexion now, and he had Apgars of 9 & 10 at birth, but he looked
> very much whiter, wrinklier and screwed up at birth than that peach of a
> baby."

My daughter was born at 27 weeks and much much smaller and at 1010grams and
35cm long she was quite a good size for her gestation. Perhaps, they could
have found or tried to find a 4 or 5 lb baby that would have at least given
a closer look at a little baby.
Or maybe made the isolette larger! *grin*

Thinking hard ---Very few have a second child on soapies and generally it is
without complications and the birth is not shown they just comer home with
another baby - done it once so it is easy the second time.  They just pop
out after the first!  (seems to be the message given)

Regards
Rhonda.


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Re: possible way to get the message across

[Jo Slamen]

I must say I did watch the Neighbours episode, partly because I am 31 weeks
preg (2nd baby), and always interested/amused to see how birth is portrayed
on telly.  That baby was huge - I think he/she was at least 6-8 weeks old
anyway.  But it's another commonly done thing on TV isn't it?  I guess it's
hard to get your hands on someone's absolute brand new-y - but, as you
mention Rhonda, they could've perhaps tried to find a littler baby - even a
2-4 week-er for the purpose.  The child they used was also perfectly smooth
and peach-y coloured etc.  My son was 3830g at birth, and has a beautiful
olive complexion now, and he had Apgars of 9 & 10 at birth, but he looked
very much whiter, wrinklier and screwed up at birth than that peach of a
baby.

Another interesting point is that Rhonda raises, does anyone recollect in
recent times, seeing a woman portrayed having anything other than her first
child?  Particularly in a serial TV show.  I think it's because the
transition from childless to family in itself has more dramatic value...?

Shall be very interesting to note if the child on Neighbours is breastfed,
and if so, whether they bother to portray it for very long... odds on they
don't

Jo Slamen

- Original Message -
From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across


> I didn't watch the Neighbours thing but did see the adds - that prem at 33
> weeks was a nice sized full term baby as far as that goes they should have
> at least shown the size of a 33 week baby - mothers would be quite shocked
> if they expected a nice big baby like that to come out at 33 weeks.
> And I agree they are all too busy making it hospitals and doctors and
> dramatics -  If they want dramatics perhaps they should be encouraged to
> show a woman fighting for the right to choose a homebirth (surounding the
> insurance issue) or even a VBAC would be a good angle - to get some of the
> message across.
> Just can't believe anything you see on TV!
> Regards
> Rhonda
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 PM
> Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
>
>
> > Far cry from the ER episode that had one of my homebirth mums in a
state.
> It
> > was about shoulder dystocia and the mother had a Zavanelli manouvre, was
> > caesared in the ER, died of a pph and the baby lived. What did they
think
> > they were doing!
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> >
> >
> > > That would have been "A Country Practice". Actually, if I remember
> rightly
> > > when Lucy gave birth she used a lot of support from the nursing staff,
> and
> > > spent most of her labour in the shower.
> > > Kirsten
> > > having flashbacks in  Minnesota, USA
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > > >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:23:06 +1000
> > > >
> > > >I seem to remember an Aussie soap from years ago where Vicki (the
local
> > > >vet) gave birth to twins in a shed, all by herself and all was OK.
Far
> > cry
> > > >from the way TV portrays birth today.
> > > >Regards, Lynne
> > > >   - Original Message -
> > > >   From: Lois Wattis
> > > >   To: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > > >   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:58 PM
> > > >   Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Great idea, Jo.  I hope you or others persue it further.  Had a
> > chuckle
> > > >about "hog tying the 2 year old".  Reminds me of when my kids were
> > > >littlemy sister (older and wiser than me) used to refer to it as
> "the
> > > >hook on the wall stage" - i.e. if you could just hang them up for a
> while
> > > >out of harms way all would be well.  Keep up the great work, Cheers,
> Lois
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 4:06 PM
> > > > Subject: possible way to get the message across
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > not that I want to admit that I watch the show...but as
Neighbours
> > > >just happened to be on last night...I noticed that there always needs
> to
> > be
> > > >some dramtic event that surrounds birth on tv soap drama.  I know
that
> > > >there were babies born recently on home and away but I certainly dont
> > watch
> > > >that!  So I am unaware of the dramas that were involved with these
bubs
> > > >'births'...no doubt some dramatic birth with mum in the 'beetle'
> position
> > > >(thanks Jackie) screaming 

Re: possible way to get the message across

[Rhonda]

I didn't watch the Neighbours thing but did see the adds - that prem at 33
weeks was a nice sized full term baby as far as that goes they should have
at least shown the size of a 33 week baby - mothers would be quite shocked
if they expected a nice big baby like that to come out at 33 weeks.
And I agree they are all too busy making it hospitals and doctors and
dramatics -  If they want dramatics perhaps they should be encouraged to
show a woman fighting for the right to choose a homebirth (surounding the
insurance issue) or even a VBAC would be a good angle - to get some of the
message across.
Just can't believe anything you see on TV!
Regards
Rhonda


- Original Message -
From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across


> Far cry from the ER episode that had one of my homebirth mums in a state.
It
> was about shoulder dystocia and the mother had a Zavanelli manouvre, was
> caesared in the ER, died of a pph and the baby lived. What did they think
> they were doing!
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
>
>
> > That would have been "A Country Practice". Actually, if I remember
rightly
> > when Lucy gave birth she used a lot of support from the nursing staff,
and
> > spent most of her labour in the shower.
> > Kirsten
> > having flashbacks in  Minnesota, USA
> >
> >
> > >From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:23:06 +1000
> > >
> > >I seem to remember an Aussie soap from years ago where Vicki (the local
> > >vet) gave birth to twins in a shed, all by herself and all was OK. Far
> cry
> > >from the way TV portrays birth today.
> > >Regards, Lynne
> > >   - Original Message -
> > >   From: Lois Wattis
> > >   To: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > >   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:58 PM
> > >   Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> > >
> > >
> > >   Great idea, Jo.  I hope you or others persue it further.  Had a
> chuckle
> > >about "hog tying the 2 year old".  Reminds me of when my kids were
> > >littlemy sister (older and wiser than me) used to refer to it as
"the
> > >hook on the wall stage" - i.e. if you could just hang them up for a
while
> > >out of harms way all would be well.  Keep up the great work, Cheers,
Lois
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 4:06 PM
> > > Subject: possible way to get the message across
> > >
> > >
> > > not that I want to admit that I watch the show...but as Neighbours
> > >just happened to be on last night...I noticed that there always needs
to
> be
> > >some dramtic event that surrounds birth on tv soap drama.  I know that
> > >there were babies born recently on home and away but I certainly dont
> watch
> > >that!  So I am unaware of the dramas that were involved with these bubs
> > >'births'...no doubt some dramatic birth with mum in the 'beetle'
position
> > >(thanks Jackie) screaming and doctors running around etc.
> > > SO...
> > > why dont we write to the soaps and ask them to consider the next
> bubby
> > >being born calmly withot drama at home or at least with a midwife
> providing
> > >care?  If we are trying to get it through to the adverage 'Jane'...then
> why
> > >not use this sort of medium?  Always run the risk of it being made into
a
> > >life threatening event though.  At least we could stress how damaging
it
> is
> > >to society to perpetuate the myth of childbirth being shrouded in
danger
> > >and trauma that cant be done without doctors?
> > > just a thought...
> > > going back to hog tie my children.  Just kidding...only the two
year
> > >old.
> > > cheers Jo
> > > Jo Bainbridge
> > > founding member CARES SA
> > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > phone: 08 8365 7059
> > > birth with trust, faith & love...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: possible way to get the message across

[L & D Staff]

Far cry from the ER episode that had one of my homebirth mums in a state. It
was about shoulder dystocia and the mother had a Zavanelli manouvre, was
caesared in the ER, died of a pph and the baby lived. What did they think
they were doing!
- Original Message -
From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across


> That would have been "A Country Practice". Actually, if I remember rightly
> when Lucy gave birth she used a lot of support from the nursing staff, and
> spent most of her labour in the shower.
> Kirsten
> having flashbacks in  Minnesota, USA
>
>
> >From: "L & D Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> >Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:23:06 +1000
> >
> >I seem to remember an Aussie soap from years ago where Vicki (the local
> >vet) gave birth to twins in a shed, all by herself and all was OK. Far
cry
> >from the way TV portrays birth today.
> >Regards, Lynne
> >   - Original Message -
> >   From: Lois Wattis
> >   To: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> >   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:58 PM
> >   Subject: Re: possible way to get the message across
> >
> >
> >   Great idea, Jo.  I hope you or others persue it further.  Had a
chuckle
> >about "hog tying the 2 year old".  Reminds me of when my kids were
> >littlemy sister (older and wiser than me) used to refer to it as "the
> >hook on the wall stage" - i.e. if you could just hang them up for a while
> >out of harms way all would be well.  Keep up the great work, Cheers, Lois
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 4:06 PM
> > Subject: possible way to get the message across
> >
> >
> > not that I want to admit that I watch the show...but as Neighbours
> >just happened to be on last night...I noticed that there always needs to
be
> >some dramtic event that surrounds birth on tv soap drama.  I know that
> >there were babies born recently on home and away but I certainly dont
watch
> >that!  So I am unaware of the dramas that were involved with these bubs
> >'births'...no doubt some dramatic birth with mum in the 'beetle' position
> >(thanks Jackie) screaming and doctors running around etc.
> > SO...
> > why dont we write to the soaps and ask them to consider the next
bubby
> >being born calmly withot drama at home or at least with a midwife
providing
> >care?  If we are trying to get it through to the adverage 'Jane'...then
why
> >not use this sort of medium?  Always run the risk of it being made into a
> >life threatening event though.  At least we could stress how damaging it
is
> >to society to perpetuate the myth of childbirth being shrouded in danger
> >and trauma that cant be done without doctors?
> > just a thought...
> > going back to hog tie my children.  Just kidding...only the two year
> >old.
> > cheers Jo
> > Jo Bainbridge
> > founding member CARES SA
> > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > phone: 08 8365 7059
> > birth with trust, faith & love...
>
>
>
>
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>

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babywise

[Macha McDonald]

 Oh my God!!!  I’m surprised that its popular in Australia.  Australians aren’t usually fundamental,
dogmatic,  evangelistic, American-style
Christians.  I can just imagine
what this book says.  Sounds like a
mad man to me.

change of e-mail adress

[Pakhi]

Hello there
 
please note that my e-mail adress has permanently changed 
from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 to:
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Please send anything again that you wrote since 12/01/02, as 
my mail did no longer get forwarded.
 
Sorry if you receive this mail more than once. 
 
Thank you and much much love from
 
Pakhi (Bettina Aldred)
Samvara
and Ravi
 
 

Babywise

[Pinky McKay]

Check this out
Pnky
 
http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/9108.html