Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I think we could encourage this gentler approach to 
mothering by having bigger beds in the postpartum wards big enough for both the 
woman's partner and the baby to sleep in. It would give the ok. I know some 
hospitals already do this both here and abroad but I think it should be the 
usual not the unusual. As it is many if not most of the midwives where I am 
working encourage mums to sleep with the baby in their bed and cuddle as well as 
feed, but at least at the beginning the size of the bed is discouraging, of 
course it gives a good talking opportunity which should never be lost, i just 
think visual or unspoken cues are also important. I do realise that hospital 
beds are probably necessary for at least 24 hrs post operative delivery, 
but then the mum and baby could be moved to a more cuddly bed. 
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jo Slamen 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 7:34 
PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to 
  sleep through the night"!!!
  
  I still enjoy feeding my 11.5 month-old overnight 
  - is it 2 or 3 or 4 times a night?- never sure - we're cuddled up together in 
  bed and it's so drowsy that I don't remember specifically.  Not 
  ready to lose that closeness from him just yet...  And yes, he's a nice 
  weight and a really cuddly baby - everyone comments on his 
  cuddliness - just like many say - "Oooh he shouldn't be in bed with 
  you!"  I'm quite suspicious, however, that one has to do with the 
  other.
   
  Jo
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Jackie 
Kitschke 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:09 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] "failure to 
sleep through the night"!!!

I was just flicking through the latest ANF Journal before 
chucking it out when the title "Frequent feeding clue to disrupted infant 
sleep"!! It was published in the "Archives of Disease in Childhood" by M. 
Nikoloulou and I. St. James-Roberts. These researchers identified "at risk" 
infants during their first week of life which put them at risk of failing to 
sleep through the night at 12 weeks of age!! Talk about turn normal 
physiology into an abnormality. They say that babies that feed more than 11 
times per day at 1 week were 2.7 times more likely not to sleep through. 
Duh, aren't they supposed to be feeding frequently. There is no mention of 
the failure to thrive rate between the "control" group and the"behaviour 
program group". This program included maximising the difference between 
day and night, avoinding feeding and cuddling at night and from the age of 
three weeks gradually delaying feeds when the baby awoke at night!! 

When will sense prevail. Those poor women out there, they 
must be so confused with nurses now taking that line.
Just annoyed
Jackie

Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!

[Jo Slamen]

I still enjoy feeding my 11.5 month-old overnight - 
is it 2 or 3 or 4 times a night?- never sure - we're cuddled up together in bed 
and it's so drowsy that I don't remember specifically.  Not ready to 
lose that closeness from him just yet...  And yes, he's a nice weight and a 
really cuddly baby - everyone comments on his cuddliness - just like 
many say - "Oooh he shouldn't be in bed with you!"  I'm quite suspicious, 
however, that one has to do with the other.
 
Jo

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jackie 
  Kitschke 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:09 
PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep 
  through the night"!!!
  
  I was just flicking through the latest ANF Journal before 
  chucking it out when the title "Frequent feeding clue to disrupted infant 
  sleep"!! It was published in the "Archives of Disease in Childhood" by M. 
  Nikoloulou and I. St. James-Roberts. These researchers identified "at risk" 
  infants during their first week of life which put them at risk of failing to 
  sleep through the night at 12 weeks of age!! Talk about turn normal physiology 
  into an abnormality. They say that babies that feed more than 11 times per day 
  at 1 week were 2.7 times more likely not to sleep through. Duh, aren't they 
  supposed to be feeding frequently. There is no mention of the failure to 
  thrive rate between the "control" group and the"behaviour program group". 
  This program included maximising the difference between day and night, 
  avoinding feeding and cuddling at night and from the age of three weeks 
  gradually delaying feeds when the baby awoke at night!! 
  When will sense prevail. Those poor women out there, they 
  must be so confused with nurses now taking that line.
  Just annoyed
  Jackie

Re: [ozmidwifery] Good OB

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Oh he had admitting rights to mater mother 25 yrs ago as he had to go there
after my birth.

marilyn
- Original Message -
From: "Maternity Ward Mareeba Hospital" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 8:07 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Good OB


My sister has recently moved to brisbane and would like to know the name of
a good Ob who preferably has admitting rights to mater mothers. Thanks for
any suggestions
Megan



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Re: [ozmidwifery] Good OB

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I think there is a gentleman by the name of  L. Yared, who I know is a great
technician and has been practicing for at least 25 yrs (he delivered my
second daughter vaginal breech 25yrs ago reluctantly: he was the backup doc
and my ob was away, he was not happy, but he did a good if somewhat cold job
and sutured well). Not the kind of birth I envisioned, but technically good.
If I had to have a cesarean I think someone with his surgical skills would
be a plus.
This may be a strange recommendation but here it is anyway.
marilyn
- Original Message -
From: "Maternity Ward Mareeba Hospital" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 8:04 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Good OB


My sister is having her thrid LSCS (sigh) later this year and has recently
moved to Brisbane. Does anyone have the name of a good OB (preferably with
admitting rights to Mater Mothers?
Thanks
Megan



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This e-mail, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential
and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality
is not waived or lost if you receive it and you are not the intended
recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error.

Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review
of this e-mail is prohibited.  It may be subject to a statutory duty of
confidentiality if it relates to health service matters.

If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this
e-mail in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by
telephone or by return e-mail.  You should also delete this e-mail
message and destroy any hard copies produced.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] The Practising Midwife website

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I agree Lois. It is my favourite midwifery 
magazine. Seattle Midwifery School had a subscription and it was such an 
excellent resource. I wish it were online too. I am surprised the unis don't 
have it in their libraries, it just is a really helpful 
journal.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lois 
  Wattis 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 8:02 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] The Practising 
  Midwife website 
  
  The magazine has a website address printed on the bottom of the page as 
  www.thepractisingmidwife.com 
  but I have tried it and it comes up as a zero found on search.  I think 
  Deb is right - they do not have the journal acessible on-line, however it 
  would be WONDERFUL if they did.  I subscribe to the magazine and in my 
  opionion it is the best of the lot.  Here are some email contacts:
   
  Group Editor, Louise Prime
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Managing Editor, Jane Bowler
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Perhaps some inquiries and pressure might see this journal made available 
  in on-line?    
   
  Lois WattisRegistered Midwifewww.birthjourney.com   

<>

[ozmidwifery] Alesia -Obedience/ failure to sleep

[Pinky McKay]

Me neither Alesia,>>>had a Dad there who counts to 
five before he smacks his three year old =>() so now only usually 
needs to count to three before he gets =>obedience!!!  (damn, I 
missed out there too!!)>>Another dad was from Sweden where 
smacking has been illegal for twenty =>years.>>Makes for 
very interesting discussion.>>Some of the mums come along 
especially for the Dads to be softened up re =>expectations. The Dads 
actually really enjoy themselves -dont seem to =>know they are being 
"worked over.">>Pinky

Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together

[Mary Murphy]

Dear Lieve, I have no advice for you, only congratulations on such a loving
act.  The only baby I had like that (unknown until 14 days old) went to
hospital at 2weeks of age, stayed there a few days then home to family until
he died 2 weeks later,  The time at home after he was born (lovely
waterbirth ) was so precious.  There was nothing to be done, just love him
until he chose to go.  All that investigations while in hospital did him no
good but satisfied the family that there really was nothing else to be done.
Love from Mary


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[ozmidwifery] re ear infections

[Judy Giesaitis]

Dear Wise 
Women
 
there was on the 
list, just a few weeks ago reference to littlies being given oil/vitamins with 
their cereal helping with ear infections. Does anyone have the reference for 
this please?  or at least the dosages and sort of oil given??  One of 
the ladies on the program I coordinate is very interested, would rather try that 
than have grommets [in Queensland, unable to swim she stated is 
hard!]   thanks for your assistance
 
Judy 
Giesaitis

 
<>

[ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together

[Lieve Huybrechts]

Dear friends,

For those that weren't at the list at my first posting:
When Nele was 22 weeks pregnant, ultrasound showed a severe heartdefect. The
baby wouldn't have any chance to live and was inoperable. They already
choose for a homebirth. Against a lot of advice to quit the pregnancy at
that time, they choose to give the baby the life he could have. They stayed
with their choice for homebirth.

Nele gave birth today to a beautifull son Lars. She had a very fast labor
and birth. There were a lot of emotions involved. We didn't know before how
the baby would react and how much time we would have with him. I have
beautifull videomoments. The first half hour the mother stayed in bad, where
Lars was born, we didn't dare to transfer her to the coach. Lars started to
suckle his tumb and apgar stayed 9. So we moved to the coach and there he
started breastfeeding.
After a while they called the family and asked to come and see the baby. You
know most of the people advised to quit the pregnancy as soon as they knew
the baby couldn't live long. It was beautifull to see how they reacted on
the baby and started to love him.
Now he lives already for 11 hours. He slept a while and drank again. His
colour stays a little blueish, but not so bad. We don't know how long he
stays like that. The parents are happy and enjoying the baby, although they
are very realistic. His older brother is at home to and talking to and
cuddling the baby.
Tomorrow we will have to think again. What do we have to do when he stays in
the same good condition? Do we have to go to the hospital? What will happen
there? What is the best thing to do?
It was a strange day, I enjoyed the beautifull birth and the happiness of
the parents between our tears of knowing we will have to let him go again.
It will be a strange night. I am home now, they live in my street, two
minutes walking. It will be a strange day tomorrow, I don't know what will
come.
 
Thank you all for being there and listen
Lieve

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Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!

[Alesa Koziol]

Jeez Pinky, thats what I did wrong..I didnt start early 
enough!!
Alesa
 
Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Pinky McKay 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:36 
AM
  Subject: *SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  "failure to sleep through the night"!!!
  
  have been craving appl;es - my bodu must know!
   
  Re islolation/ performance anxiety -Im doing a toddler workshop today 
  -and again these dear parents are all wanting to know how to make their 
  children - (from about 14 months) "obey". Hopefully they come away more 
  confident about the range of 'normal' . This pressure stuff keeps happening 
  and none of the baby training helps because even if it "works" (for the 
  parents) at teh time, it gives nothing for later except a "fix it" 
  mentality.
   
  Please can you contact me off list Rhonda -I am doing a column for 
  PRactical Parenting (YES!!! am slipping in some of this stuff!! real failings 
  and feelings as well as the nice stuff) I would love to "interview" 
  you. 
  Pinky
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:41 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to 
sleep through the night"!!!


  

   
  Hi Pinky,
   
  Eat lots of apples too they will help to cleanse your system a 
  bit.  Hope all goes well for you.
   
  What you are saying about the isolation is so very true and it 
  has got to a point where people are too afraid to offer help -
  A - just in case the Mother feels that you think she is not 
  coping - don't want to offend her.
  B - Just in case she is in so much need of help that you can't 
  help enough 
  C - To interfere with things may look rude.
   
  The compasion and support mothers used to give each other is 
  gone
  The understanding is not there - it is all very competative (The 
  media has a lot to answer for here)  Having the perfectly behaved 
  toddler and a baby that sleep all night and a child who doesn't answer 
  back is all importnant.
  The normal things like answering back and sibling rivalry have 
  been pulled apart and disected and analised so much that there are so 
  many experts who say don't smack, don't yell, don't be emotional about 
  parenting - Don't molly codle and over cuddle - -They have forgoten to 
  say any Do's.
   
  My mother said to me when i rang her absolutely bursting with joy 
  - I had held my 2 week old prem baby for 10 mins (her first cuddle), I 
  was so happy and I said - "I didn't want to put her back." My 
  Mum's reply was, "Oh Now then - you will spoil her!"  I was 
  horrified - I was being judged as a bad mother (to spoil my child who 
  was 2 weeks old) I already had guilt feeling of having to have 
  her torn from my stomach at 27 weeks because i had failed at carrying 
  her to term and she had been on ventilators and close to death 
  and was still seriously ill in NICU and then a 10 min cuddle which I 
  didn't want to ever end was going to spoil her.  How could I ever 
  pick her up again without wondering if that was going to be too 
  much. 
  Then each time I sat and expressed there was a poster can't 
  remember the exact words - it had a photo of a woman with her baby in 
  a sling and said how women in Africa carry their babies on their 
  backs and at the breast all day in slings - their babies hardly ever 
  cry and grow to be very secure children  - How can we help 
  our babies not to cry so much?  This poster touched me and I 
  realised at that point that no amount of cuddles could spoil a 
  child.  
  I would look at that and decided then that I would never leave my 
  baby to cry itself to sleep alone.  
   
  So maybe more women need to be reminded of that simple 
fact!
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
   
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 
  March 15, 2003 17:57:21
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!
   
  Hi Rhonda
   
   yes you are lucky to be away from the chemicals and smog 
  -youve got me thinking - 2 emergency hospital visits in two weeks for 
  allergic reactions to food - I bet my whole system is overloaded -am 
  eating veges and rice til I see an allergy spec next week. 

Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH??

[Denise Hynd]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE SEARCH??



DEAR LIEVE
thnak you Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lieve Huybrechts 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 3:16 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] WEBSITE 
  SEARCH??
  On 16-03-2003 17:32, "Denise Hynd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  Is there a web site for the 
WHO guide to normal birth (1996). Denisehttp://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/MSM_96_24/MSM_96_24_table_of_contents.en.htmlGreetingsLieve 

Re: [ozmidwifery] The Practising Midwife website

[Mary Murphy]

Lois, could you bring the feb issue with you tomorrow?  I am 
interested in several of the articles.  Thanks for the info.  
Susanjane is on standby for a primip with SROM. IO am backup and she still has 
her Iraqie woman overdue day 5.  Therese in Quinns Rocks in a week 
over as well.  I hope I get there.  If Susanjane can't host the peer 
review tomorrow I will or if I'm with her I will let you all know.  Late 
notice I know, but Hey! thats the life of a midwife.  Cheers, MM

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lois 
  Wattis 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:02 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] The Practising 
  Midwife website 
  
  The magazine has a website address printed on the bottom of the page as 
  www.thepractisingmidwife.com 
  but I have tried it and it comes up as a zero found on search.  I think 
  Deb is right - they do not have the journal acessible on-line, however it 
  would be WONDERFUL if they did.  I subscribe to the magazine and in my 
  opionion it is the best of the lot.  Here are some email contacts:
   
  Group Editor, Louise Prime
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Managing Editor, Jane Bowler
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Perhaps some inquiries and pressure might see this journal made available 
  in on-line?    
   
  Lois WattisRegistered Midwifewww.birthjourney.com   

<>

Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle???

[Julie Garratt]

DOH! I get it, Silly me LOL :)
- Original Message -
From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle???


> Julie: if you follow the litle example given ie # =23 then 2+3 = 5 then
> 23 -5 = 18 do the same for all numbers 20 through 29 they all = 18.
> Similarly think of a thirty something #: 36 then 3+6 = 9 then 36-9 = 27
and
> for all of the thirty somthing numbers the answer equals 27. There is a
> different number for each decade and these numbers all had the same
symbol.
> So unless you just thought of any old number and tried to psych the
computer
> into displaying its symbol without doing the little sum, if you followed
the
> rules the trick worked.
>
> marilyn
> - Original Message -
> From: "Julie Garratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle???
>
>
> > Lieve,
> > I think your clever just for understanding your sons explanation LOL Its
> > been explained to me and I still don't get it!
> > When birth and death come together; How is the women and her family
> getting
> > on? I have been looking at ethics allot in the past week and my thoughts
> > turn to them often. Anyway,I hope things are going as well as they
> possibly
> > can . Love Julie'',
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Lieve Huybrechts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 5:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] A puzzle???
> >
> >
> > > It  changes the symbols every time and the same symbol is on
> > > 9,18,27,36,45,54,63,72,91. One of those numbers is always the result
> :-))
> > > Don't think I am so clever, I needed my son to explain...
> > >
> > > Lieve
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15-03-2003 04:31, "Julie Garratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry its not mid but its too fun not to share:)
> > > > Love Julie:)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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