[ozmidwifery] correction!

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

thanks Cas for welcoming me and pointing out the 
fax no. - I must blame severe sleep deprivation for that!
The fax no. is 029 436 1600 - attention David 
Wick.
my apologies for that 
mistake!! 
cheers,
Nicole

[ozmidwifery] the Today show

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

my alarm in seeing such a story is enhanced by the 
general growing opinion of lots of new Mums over the past couple of years - 
who believe that a caesarian is the easier and better option; and even worse, 
that it doesn't matter HOW the baby comes out - as long as it's out. Obviously 
this is misinformationyet when a fairly widely watched programme promotes 
such a view - I see a disaster in that. For 
a vulnerable first time expectant Mum who is fearful, to hear all these 
stories from women they know, and then turn on the tv and see a prominent and 
fairly respected programme give this view further publicity - perpetuates it 
all.
in my letter I asked for natural birth to be 
represented - and have since learnt that Andrea is going on tomorrow - and now feel a 
little more optimistic - 
 
cheers
Nicole 

RE: [ozmidwifery] live caesarian on the Today show

[Wayne and Cas]

Title: Message



Hi 
Nicole and welcome!  Absolutely, there is no doubt that the obs are running 
a PR campaign to promote the safety of caseareans, probably to justify the high 
rates. The same stories have been getting coverage from the printed media, radio 
and now TV in the past couple of months. I too winced when the mother said that 
about natural birth but she only reflects a certain reality which stems from 
the medicalisation of birth. I never hear of women feeling raped or 
disempowered at home births.
 
The 
Today show has a lot to answer for by their blantent 
one-sidedness.
 
Cheers,
 
Cas, Wayne, 
Liam and Daniel McCullough
mcfamily@casmccullough.com
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron & 
  Nicole ChristensenSent: Wednesday, 3 December 2003 2:22 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] live caesarian on the Today show
  Hello all,
  I am new to this list, wanting to join for some 
  time - and now particularly feeling the urgency after witnessing the 
  propaganda on the Today show this morning. I have been letter writing and 
  phoning for a large part of today.
  Tracey Grimshaw introduced the story by stating 
  that they were to look at both sides of the issue - but the only mention of a 
  natural birth was the expectant mother proclaiming that she 
  wasn't missing out on anything by forgoing natural birth - hence going 
  for the caeasraian instead.
  I really feel perplexed by the whole idea of 
  doing this on tv - and wonder if the story was sponsored by obstetricians - as 
  I'm sure it will boost their business. Seriously, though - it is VERY alarming 
  to have this on tv with such a huge audience and perpetuating the warped 
  belief that caeasraians are a legitimate 'choice' for healthy women with 
  healthy pregnancies.
  I feel SO angry and upset - and hope that this 
  will incense others to phone Channel 9 and write/e-mail also.
  Their no. is 029 906; e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and their fax no. is 029 
  906 .
  I really hope they receive a huge backlash - as 
  what they have done is totally irresponsible and unethical. 
   
  cheers,
  Nicole 
Christensen

Re: [ozmidwifery] live caesarian on the Today show

[Jodie Miller]

Nicole, are the phone and fax nos supposed to be the same?

Jodie Miller




On Wednesday 03 December 2003 14:21, Ron & Nicole Christensen wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am new to this list, wanting to join for some time - and now particularly
> feeling the urgency after witnessing the propaganda on the Today show this
> morning. I have been letter writing and phoning for a large part of today.
> Tracey Grimshaw introduced the story by stating that they were to look at
> both sides of the issue - but the only mention of a natural birth was the
> expectant mother proclaiming that she wasn't missing out on anything by
> forgoing natural birth - hence going for the caeasraian instead. I really
> feel perplexed by the whole idea of doing this on tv - and wonder if the
> story was sponsored by obstetricians - as I'm sure it will boost their
> business. Seriously, though - it is VERY alarming to have this on tv with
> such a huge audience and perpetuating the warped belief that
> caeasraians are a legitimate 'choice' for healthy women with healthy
> pregnancies. I feel SO angry and upset - and hope that this will incense
> others to phone Channel 9 and write/e-mail also. Their no. is 029 906;
> e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and their fax no. is 029 906 . I
> really hope they receive a huge backlash - as what they have done is
> totally irresponsible and unethical.
>
> cheers,
> Nicole Christensen

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[Wayne and Cas]

Andrea, I think it is really important that you mention that women
who've had bad caesarean experiences would feel traumatised by this live
coverage. I know I won't be able to watch it. They do need to see a good
natural birth but we need to emphasise that it is not the natural
birthers who are complaining so much as women like me and Sonia who have
had difficult and horrible caesarean experiences.

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea
Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, 3 December 2003 1:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance


Hi everyone,

I've agreed to be interviewed on the Today Program tomorrow (Thursday) 
morning regarding caesareans. Apparently they will be crossing to a
"live" 
caesarean  and they want someone in the studio to make sure that they
put a 
balanced point of view regarding the issue.

At least it will be live to air, so they won't be editing it at all -
will 
have to get my point across in a very succinct way!  Let's see how it
goes

Cheers

Andrea


-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[Wayne and Cas]

Hi Andrea,

Can you please contact Justine Caines and let her know. We've just been
discussing an MC response to this and she was going to contact the
producer. Also please be sure to contradict that Jackass Ob about the
reasons why he felt this woman should have a caeserean. If you need more
info please call me on 07 3879 8378 or email me at address below

Many thanks

Cas.



Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


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Re: [ozmidwifery] live caesarian on the Today show

[Pinky McKay]

The more people like us "react" the more determined 
they will be and the more convinced they will be that they have a REALLY 
controversial, ratings boosting story. With Andrea there as the balanced view, I 
cant see how a "live" caesarean would get any business for an Obstetrician - if 
they really show all (as they would with a natural birth) it would be fairly 
scary wouldn't it?  Andrea, are you able to take a "real" birth video or 
suggest they use a bit of Vicki Chan and Nic Edmonsons short video to convey the 
joy of natural birth?
Pinky

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ron & 
  Nicole Christensen 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 3:21 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] live caesarian on 
  the Today show
  
  Hello all,
  I am new to this list, wanting to join for some 
  time - and now particularly feeling the urgency after witnessing the 
  propaganda on the Today show this morning. I have been letter writing and 
  phoning for a large part of today.
  Tracey Grimshaw introduced the story by stating 
  that they were to look at both sides of the issue - but the only mention of a 
  natural birth was the expectant mother proclaiming that she 
  wasn't missing out on anything by forgoing natural birth - hence going 
  for the caeasraian instead.
  I really feel perplexed by the whole idea of 
  doing this on tv - and wonder if the story was sponsored by obstetricians - as 
  I'm sure it will boost their business. Seriously, though - it is VERY alarming 
  to have this on tv with such a huge audience and perpetuating the warped 
  belief that caeasraians are a legitimate 'choice' for healthy women with 
  healthy pregnancies.
  I feel SO angry and upset - and hope that this 
  will incense others to phone Channel 9 and write/e-mail also.
  Their no. is 029 906; e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and their fax no. is 029 
  906 .
  I really hope they receive a huge backlash - as 
  what they have done is totally irresponsible and unethical. 
   
  cheers,
  Nicole 
Christensen

Re: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[Andrea Robertson]

Hi Jo,

I am told it will be about 7.10 a.m. - bu that may change depending on how 
the surgery is going (!!)

"See" you tomorrow,

Andrea

At 02:31 PM 3/12/2003, JoFromOz wrote:
OOh good luck and have fun Andrea!

I will have to tape it - what time is it on??

Jo

Andrea Robertson wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've agreed to be interviewed on the Today Program tomorrow (Thursday)
> morning regarding caesareans. Apparently they will be crossing to a
> "live" caesarean  and they want someone in the studio to make sure
> that they put a balanced point of view regarding the issue.
>
> At least it will be live to air, so they won't be editing it at all -
> will have to get my point across in a very succinct way!  Let's see
> how it goes
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrea
>
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth
> Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
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-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[Pinky McKay]

Go Andrea!
Best wishes,
Pinky

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance


> Hi everyone,
>
> I've agreed to be interviewed on the Today Program tomorrow (Thursday)
> morning regarding caesareans. Apparently they will be crossing to a "live"
> caesarean  and they want someone in the studio to make sure that they put
a
> balanced point of view regarding the issue.
>
> At least it will be live to air, so they won't be editing it at all - will
> have to get my point across in a very succinct way!  Let's see how it
goes
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrea
>
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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[ozmidwifery] live caesarian on the Today show

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

Hello all,
I am new to this list, wanting to join for some 
time - and now particularly feeling the urgency after witnessing the 
propaganda on the Today show this morning. I have been letter writing and 
phoning for a large part of today.
Tracey Grimshaw introduced the story by stating 
that they were to look at both sides of the issue - but the only mention of a 
natural birth was the expectant mother proclaiming that she wasn't missing 
out on anything by forgoing natural birth - hence going for the caeasraian 
instead.
I really feel perplexed by the whole idea of doing 
this on tv - and wonder if the story was sponsored by obstetricians - as I'm 
sure it will boost their business. Seriously, though - it is VERY alarming to 
have this on tv with such a huge audience and perpetuating the warped belief 
that caeasraians are a legitimate 'choice' for healthy women with healthy 
pregnancies.
I feel SO angry and upset - and hope that this will 
incense others to phone Channel 9 and write/e-mail also.
Their no. is 029 906; e-mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and their fax no. is 029 
906 .
I really hope they receive a huge backlash - as 
what they have done is totally irresponsible and unethical. 
 
cheers,
Nicole Christensen

Re: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[JoFromOz]

OOh good luck and have fun Andrea!

I will have to tape it - what time is it on??

Jo

Andrea Robertson wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've agreed to be interviewed on the Today Program tomorrow (Thursday)
> morning regarding caesareans. Apparently they will be crossing to a
> "live" caesarean  and they want someone in the studio to make sure
> that they put a balanced point of view regarding the issue.
> 
> At least it will be live to air, so they won't be editing it at all -
> will have to get my point across in a very succinct way!  Let's see
> how it goes 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andrea
> 
> 
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth
> Education 
> 
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com

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Re: [ozmidwifery] New models of midwifery care

[JoFromOz]

Larry & Megan wrote:

> There were just 14 maternal deaths for which she had direct
> responsibility (4.6 in one thousand births).

I found that a large number of deaths, until I re-read the dates... Now I
think, ONLY 4.6 in 1000 births is admirable, considering infection, etc back
then.

Jo

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[*G and S*]

Andrea,
 My thoughts and prayers will be with you.  I'm sure you'll do
us all proud.
Sonia W.
>
>I've agreed to be interviewed on the Today Program tomorrow (Thursday)
>morning regarding caesareans. Apparently they will be crossing to a "live"
>caesarean  and they want someone in the studio to make sure that they put a
>balanced point of view regarding the issue.
>
>At least it will be live to air, so they won't be editing it at all - will
>have to get my point across in a very succinct way!  Let's see how it
goes
>
>Cheers
>
>Andrea
>
>
>-
>Andrea Robertson
>Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
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[ozmidwifery] Today Show appearance

[Andrea Robertson]

Hi everyone,

I've agreed to be interviewed on the Today Program tomorrow (Thursday) 
morning regarding caesareans. Apparently they will be crossing to a "live" 
caesarean  and they want someone in the studio to make sure that they put a 
balanced point of view regarding the issue.

At least it will be live to air, so they won't be editing it at all - will 
have to get my point across in a very succinct way!  Let's see how it goes

Cheers

Andrea

-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Live C.Section on Today Show!

[JoFromOz]

This sounds really horrible, but I hope (since it's live) that something
goes wrong so that people can see what really goes on!

(obviously I don't wish anything t drastic - but something to scare the
doctors and nurses in the theatre would be good!)

Jo

*G and S* wrote:
> Did anyone see the promo on the Today show for a live c.section that
> will be done on the show tomorrow morning?
> The mother Liane Cooper has had  one prior c.section and is virtually
> electing to have this one done.
> The doctor/surgeon is none other than the show's regular,celebrity
> consultant (sorry can't recall his name through the fumes) and he
> recommends the c.section because "she has had a prior  c. section and
> therefore requires another." G  He also stated that it was the
> mum's prefered choice.
> Liane found her first c.section to be easy and relatively painless
> and does not know of any women who have had a negative experience.
> WHAT A CROCK! Wish there was a tv camera round when I was
> haemorrhaging and my babe was sliced up.
> Sorry really cross at the moment...more misinformation being touted
> out there.
> Did anyone else see it?..
> Sonia W.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Live C.Section on Today Show!

[leanne wynne]

I sent an e-mail and quoted a recent article from The Lancet which published 
research showing that the risk of unexplained stillbirth is doubled for 
women who have had a previous Caesarean Section.



Leanne 
Wynne Midwife in charge of "Women's Business" Mildura Aboriginal 
Health Service  Mob 0418 371862
 
 





From: "*G and S*" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Live C.Section on Today Show!
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:23:35 +1100
I have rung Channel 9 and complained.  Please do the same if you can.
Sonia W.
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_
Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to  
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Live caesarean on channel 9 tomorrow--outraged responses needed!

[Andrea Bilcliff]

I didn't see it but emails can be sent to the Today show at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or you can visit the Channel 9 comments & complaints page
at http://ninemsn.com.au/support/channel9.asp

Andrea Bilcliff

- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:04 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Live caesarean on channel 9 tomorrow--outraged
responses needed!


> I was disgusted to see an interview today on pros and cons of c-section
> that was completely pro c-section on the Today Show on Channel 9. Did
> anyone else see it? I feel physically sick that they want to show a live
> caesearean birth on TV...what an insult to all those women who have had
> horrible c-births.
>
> Very pissed off...
>
> Cas.
>
> Ps: Please write to Channel 9 and express your outrage Carolyn D
> A response from you or Jackie Mawson would be good!


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Live C.Section on Today Show!

[*G and S*]

I have rung Channel 9 and complained.  Please do the same if you can.
Sonia W.

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[ozmidwifery] Live caesarean on channel 9 tomorrow--outraged responses needed!

[Wayne and Cas]

I was disgusted to see an interview today on pros and cons of c-section
that was completely pro c-section on the Today Show on Channel 9. Did
anyone else see it? I feel physically sick that they want to show a live
caesearean birth on TV...what an insult to all those women who have had
horrible c-births.

Very pissed off...

Cas.

Ps: Please write to Channel 9 and express your outrage Carolyn D
A response from you or Jackie Mawson would be good!



Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

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[ozmidwifery] Live C.Section on Today Show!

[*G and S*]

Did anyone see the promo on the Today show for a live c.section that will be
done on the show tomorrow morning?
The mother Liane Cooper has had  one prior c.section and is virtually
electing to have this one done.
The doctor/surgeon is none other than the show's regular,celebrity
consultant (sorry can't recall his name through the fumes) and he recommends
the c.section because "she has had a prior  c. section and therefore
requires another." G  He also stated that it was the mum's prefered
choice.
Liane found her first c.section to be easy and relatively painless and does
not know of any women who have had a negative experience.  WHAT A CROCK!
Wish there was a tv camera round when I was haemorrhaging and my babe was
sliced up.
Sorry really cross at the moment...more misinformation being touted out
there.
Did anyone else see it?..
Sonia W.


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Re: [ozmidwifery] New models of midwifery care

[Larry & Megan]

Dear all,
my experience is that the only midwifery model in SA is that belonging to
our independant midwives. We have some excellent midwives working within the
medical model and they are by no doubt being the best midwife they can be,
but at the end of the day it is still the hospital and the doctors that call
the shots.
One of our level 3 hospitals(we have 2) lost VBAC in the birth centre purely
because one consultant refused to support it. The VBAC rates have fallen
drastically and this is accepted by those in control at the expense of women
and those wishing to support them, despite intense lobbying for its return.
I have to question how true midwifery care can work from a hospital without
the full support of doctors and midwives accepting this model.
I am currently reading Ina May's "Guide to Childbirth" and it contains some
wonderfully staggering statistics of Midwifery care. Vrouw Schrader
practiced in the Netherlands from 1693 until 1745 attending 3,017 births.
Spontaneous birth took place in 94% of cases. There were just 14 maternal
deaths for which she had direct responsibility (4.6 in one thousand births).
There were 10 cases of placenta previa, with only two maternal deaths.
If this is what you can do without formal education and medical intervention
then she is a woman to be admired.

Is a compromised model of care enough? Many women will be better off than
whats on offer now, but it still isnt the very best that they can have.

"Women are not dying because of disease we cannot treat. They are dying
because societies have yet to make the decision that their lives are worth
saving" - Mahmoud Fathalla

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RE: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart in labour

[Neretlis, Bethany]

the only reason to listen to the fh is to assess for fetal wellbeing/coping with the 
stress of labour. the reason you listen before during and after a contraction (not 
everytime, possibly, but certainly if there is any decelerations noted) is to get a 
good'feel' of what the heart rate is doing. i agree that some perfectly normal fh 
patterns can sound scary, however if you KNOW this baby and what it is doing in 
response to labour, you are much better at judging what is happening in regards to any 
decelerations, and consequently, are much less likely to over-react to 'scary' fh 
patterns.

love Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart in labour


I acknowledge that Lesley & I are at odds on this question.  The informed choice 
guidelines ask some very important questions: "How do fetal heart rate patterns 
reflect foetal compromise?  The understanding and interpretation of variations in the 
foetal heart rate are still in it's infancy."  My observation is that there has been 
more harm done to mothers and babies from overzealous monitoring of foetal heart tones 
and the reaction to normal patterns that sound scary, than there has been from the 
more traditional frequency of auscultation. Denise asks a very valid question:
"when does intermittent auscultation become continuous auscultation (listening after 
every contraction?) and an intervention in normal progress of birth?? " Cheers, MM

I would really appreciate some opinions on frequency of listening to the FH in labour, 
particularly the second stage. I've always listened in every half hour in early 
labour, 15 minutely in cracking labour and after every contraction (and through some 
of them) in the second stage. I know of some midwives who do not feel this is 
necessary and so I'd love to hear more opinions. What I wonder is if the FH is not 
being listened in to how would you know whether to expedite the birth? Also if the 
worst happened how would it stand up in court?
Thanks
Lesley
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Re: [ozmidwifery] physiological third stage

[Lesley Kuliukas]

The pulse in the cord comes from the baby's 
heart so yes, can carry on after full separation.
Lesley

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  linda 
  kamchevski 
  To: list 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 4:50 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] physiological 
  third stage
  
  Can some one tell me can there be a pulse in the 
  umbilical cord if the separation of the placenta is complete.   Last 
  night all the signs of separation ie. show, cord lengthening etc cord contiued 
  to pulse.  My thoughts were that this doesnt happen.  twas a bit 
  tricky.  lol.
   
  linda.

Re: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart in labour

[Mary Murphy]

I acknowledge that Lesley & I are at odds on this question.  The 
informed choice guidelines ask some very important questions: "How do fetal 
heart rate patterns reflect foetal compromise?  The understanding and 
interpretation of variations in the foetal heart rate are still in it's 
infancy."  My observation is that there has been more harm done to mothers 
and babies from overzealous monitoring of foetal heart tones and the reaction to 
normal patterns that sound scary, than there has been from the more traditional 
frequency of auscultation. Denise asks a very valid question:
"when does intermittent auscultation become continuous 
auscultation (listening after every contraction?) and an intervention in normal 
progress of birth?? " Cheers, MM

  I would really appreciate some opinions on 
  frequency of listening to the FH in labour, particularly the second stage. 
  I've always listened in every half hour in early labour, 15 minutely in 
  cracking labour and after every contraction (and through some of them) in the 
  second stage. I know of some midwives who do not feel this is necessary and so 
  I'd love to hear more opinions. What I wonder is if the FH is not being 
  listened in to how would you know whether to expedite the birth? Also if the 
  worst happened how would it stand up in court?
  Thanks
  Lesley