Re: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome
Hi Kirsten, Babies can die during a vbac with uterine rupture, but uterine rupture is very rare and babies deaths during uterine rupture even rarer. I am not sure about the choking though?? Uterine rupture can occur in a normal birth also. The statistics are slightly higher with a vbac. With one to one focused care of a woman having a vbac, a uterine rupture should not result in death of a baby. If a woman is encouraged to be intouch with her body and a carer is aware and focused on a woman, then they would both know if something like a rupture was happening. There are numerous precautions that a woman and carer can take in a vbac, primarily staying away from unnatural induction. Inducing can cause unnatural contractions and put too much pressure on the scar and uterus. Also if a woman can stay clear of drugs during labour, she is more aware of the different types of pain(if any) during contractions. If a rupture does occur, there is time to get the baby out with no harm as long as mum and carer are aware of it happening. There is so much WONDERFUL information regarding vbacs, ruptures etc on the net. Search on google for natural vbacs and you will find a wealth of info. Also check out www.birthrites.org.au ( I think that's it. Ruptures are a tiny spec in the world of vbacs, something to be aware of but not afraid of. So many women have amazing birth experiences after c-sections. As for your friend that is breechthere are lots of primary carers that believe this is normal, and that women can have a normal birthunfortunately, sometimes you have to dig to find a good carer. If she does have a c-section, there is usually no reason why a natural birth in the future is out of the question. Love Abby- who is not a professional, but has researched a lot for my own personal reasons. I am fully open to being corrected if I have said anything that someone disagrees with. - Original Message - From: Kirsten Wohlt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome I am a first year B. Mid student and just wanted to share something. I am very new at all this, so sorry if I sound a bit naive! :) I am the treasurer of my local Aust. B/feeding Assoc. group, and we had a dinner last night to farewell a counsellor. We were talking about the current debates re c-sections. One of the counsellors told us a tragic story about a friend of hers who undertook a natural birth following a previous c-section. During labour (not sure what stage) the old c-section scar in the uterus ruptured, and the babies head pushed through. The continuing uterine contractions then literally choked the baby who did not survive. I was absolutely horrified to hear this story. I don't know how common this would be - a doctor at the table said she had heard of many bad outcomes following c-sections, but nothing like that. I guess the sad thing is that some women have no choice but to have a caesar to safely birth a child, as was the case for this woman I believe. Then next time, she wanted the natural birth and had this dreadful outcome. More reason to avoid the elective c-s in my opinion, but no solace for those requiring the surgery. One of my follow throughs is facing a caesarian at the moment. She is 38 weeks pregnant and her baby (number 1 and very tiny mum) is breech. An ECV was unsuccessful last week and she has previously tried every natural therapy and old wive's tale to get the little one to turn, but to no avail. I certainly won't be sharing this story with her, but it has made me feel so nervous (for want of a better word) for her and her future birthing experiences. I am really enjoying reading all that you are sending out. The mails you are all generating have been food for thought on many topics indeed. Many thanks, Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Seeking Heather Harris
Dear All Trying to contact Heather Harris IBCLC and traveller extroidinaire:). Would be grateful for connections Many thanks in advance Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne
Re: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome
Sorry, the site is http://www.birthrites.org/ Here are some other useful sites http://www.worldserver.com/turk/birthing/VBACSuggestions.html These are from a couple that lost their daughter during a vbac and rupture. I do not necessarily agree with everything they say, but they do have good suggestions. http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/icanvbac.html#Safety This has great VBAC Safety/Rupture Statistics http://www.storknet.com/stories/vbac.htm Some great stories of vbacs and hbacs Have fun reading. Love Abby - Original Message - From: Kirsten Wohlt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome I am a first year B. Mid student and just wanted to share something. I am very new at all this, so sorry if I sound a bit naive! :) I am the treasurer of my local Aust. B/feeding Assoc. group, and we had a dinner last night to farewell a counsellor. We were talking about the current debates re c-sections. One of the counsellors told us a tragic story about a friend of hers who undertook a natural birth following a previous c-section. During labour (not sure what stage) the old c-section scar in the uterus ruptured, and the babies head pushed through. The continuing uterine contractions then literally choked the baby who did not survive. I was absolutely horrified to hear this story. I don't know how common this would be - a doctor at the table said she had heard of many bad outcomes following c-sections, but nothing like that. I guess the sad thing is that some women have no choice but to have a caesar to safely birth a child, as was the case for this woman I believe. Then next time, she wanted the natural birth and had this dreadful outcome. More reason to avoid the elective c-s in my opinion, but no solace for those requiring the surgery. One of my follow throughs is facing a caesarian at the moment. She is 38 weeks pregnant and her baby (number 1 and very tiny mum) is breech. An ECV was unsuccessful last week and she has previously tried every natural therapy and old wive's tale to get the little one to turn, but to no avail. I certainly won't be sharing this story with her, but it has made me feel so nervous (for want of a better word) for her and her future birthing experiences. I am really enjoying reading all that you are sending out. The mails you are all generating have been food for thought on many topics indeed. Many thanks, Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
FW: Re: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome
Hi Kirsten, I agree with what Abbie has said. From memory the tear rate is around 0.3% in a woman having a VBAC, and the risk of her baby dying as a result is about 0.05%. Very low indeed. Of all uterine ruptures around 75% occur in women with no previous uterine surgery, and of those having a VBAC 1/3 of ruptures don't happen in the scar itself. Obviously these tragic outcomes will occasionally happen, but for the majority of women a successful VBAC can be an empowering experience. Our role as midwives is to be aware of these risks and be alert for them when caring for women planning a VBAC. To not do so would be a little bit like not letting her cross the road because you once heard that a friend of a friend got run over by a bus. Carol From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:02:00 +1000 Hi Kirsten, Babies can die during a vbac with uterine rupture, but uterine rupture is very rare and babies deaths during uterine rupture even rarer. I am not sure about the choking though?? Uterine rupture can occur in a normal birth also. The statistics are slightly higher with a vbac. With one to one focused care of a woman having a vbac, a uterine rupture should not result in death of a baby. If a woman is encouraged to be intouch with her body and a carer is aware and focused on a woman, then they would both know if something like a rupture was happening. There are numerous precautions that a woman and carer can take in a vbac, primarily staying away from unnatural induction. Inducing can cause unnatural contractions and put too much pressure on the scar and uterus. Also if a woman can stay clear of drugs during labour, she is more aware of the different types of pain(if any) during contractions. If a rupture does occur, there is time to get the baby out with no harm as long as mum and carer are aware of it happening. There is so much WONDERFUL information regarding vbacs, ruptures etc on the net. Search on google for natural vbacs and you will find a wealth of info. Also check out www.birthrites.org.au ( I think that's it. Ruptures are a tiny spec in the world of vbacs, something to be aware of but not afraid of. So many women have amazing birth experiences after c-sections. As for your friend that is breechthere are lots of primary carers that believe this is normal, and that women can have a normal birthunfortunately, sometimes you have to dig to find a good carer. If she does have a c-section, there is usually no reason why a natural birth in the future is out of the question. Love Abby- who is not a professional, but has researched a lot for my own personal reasons. I am fully open to being corrected if I have said anything that someone disagrees with. - Original Message - From: Kirsten Wohlt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Tragic c-section outcome I am a first year B. Mid student and just wanted to share something. I am very new at all this, so sorry if I sound a bit naive! :) I am the treasurer of my local Aust. B/feeding Assoc. group, and we had a dinner last night to farewell a counsellor. We were talking about the current debates re c-sections. One of the counsellors told us a tragic story about a friend of hers who undertook a natural birth following a previous c-section. During labour (not sure what stage) the old c-section scar in the uterus ruptured, and the babies head pushed through. The continuing uterine contractions then literally choked the baby who did not survive. I was absolutely horrified to hear this story. I don't know how common this would be - a doctor at the table said she had heard of many bad outcomes following c-sections, but nothing like that. I guess the sad thing is that some women have no choice but to have a caesar to safely birth a child, as was the case for this woman I believe. Then next time, she wanted the natural birth and had this dreadful outcome. More reason to avoid the elective c-s in my opinion, but no solace for those requiring the surgery. One of my follow throughs is facing a caesarian at the moment. She is 38 weeks pregnant and her baby (number 1 and very tiny mum) is breech. An ECV was unsuccessful last week and she has previously tried every natural therapy and old wive's tale to get the little one to turn, but to no avail. I certainly won't be sharing this story with her, but it has made me feel so nervous (for want of a better word) for her and her future birthing experiences. I am really enjoying reading all that you are sending out. The mails you are all generating have been food for thought on many topics indeed. Many thanks, Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE
[ozmidwifery] Thanks for the responses!
Thanks to those of you who responded to my message from yesterday. I must admit, I feel a bit silly for having posted it now though - all part of the learning curve! :) It is good to know that this rupturing is very rare, and reading your responses has made me think about the care we can give in a totally different way. I would never have thought about the induced labour causing unnatural contractions, nor would I have thought that avoiding drugs would help a woman be aware of the different pain she may experience, and being able to use that understanding of the pain to potentially identify something going wrong. Oh so much to learn! I am really grateful that this group exists and is open to 'Learner Drivers' like myself, and allows questions and comments without derision! Re the 'choking' - that may have been a very bad choice of words from the woman who told me the story, and I didn't stop to think about how illogical it was. I wonder if it was just that the blood was stopped from getting to the brain? Or the stress of the pressure? What would be the likely reason? Thanks again for your help. I will definately follow up those links you sent Abby!! Thank you, thank you. Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Thanks for the responses!
Hi Kirsten, I don't think you should ever feel silly asking questions, I am always asking questions of my mentor when I don't understand something. Maybe you could bring this topic to one of your lecturers, it would be great if all B Mid students learnt about the evidence based realities of VBAC. This is a great group to learn from. Wise women, passionate about women. Even though I have read through them before, I spent a couple of hours going over those sites last night. I LOVE to read amazing VBAC stories. I can feel the joy of those women. Love Abby - Original Message - From: Kirsten Wohlt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Thanks for the responses! Thanks to those of you who responded to my message from yesterday. I must admit, I feel a bit silly for having posted it now though - all part of the learning curve! :) It is good to know that this rupturing is very rare, and reading your responses has made me think about the care we can give in a totally different way. I would never have thought about the induced labour causing unnatural contractions, nor would I have thought that avoiding drugs would help a woman be aware of the different pain she may experience, and being able to use that understanding of the pain to potentially identify something going wrong. Oh so much to learn! I am really grateful that this group exists and is open to 'Learner Drivers' like myself, and allows questions and comments without derision! Re the 'choking' - that may have been a very bad choice of words from the woman who told me the story, and I didn't stop to think about how illogical it was. I wonder if it was just that the blood was stopped from getting to the brain? Or the stress of the pressure? What would be the likely reason? Thanks again for your help. I will definately follow up those links you sent Abby!! Thank you, thank you. Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Maternity bras
I just wanted to let those in Brisbane know of a shop that makes maternity (as well as normal) bras to order, for all sizesand in nice colours and fabric. This might be really useful for larger women having trouble getting comfortable bras for during pregnancy and for breastfeeding. The place is called Zero Gravity bras Cnr south pine rd and Forrest St in Everton Park. Tel: 3855 3032 cost is about $100 to $130 dollars, worthwhile though to get a good fitting bra! Simone
[ozmidwifery] Cervix position and labour duration
Hi all, I just have a question that some of you may be able to help me with. I am an osteopath with a special interest in osteopathic care during pregnancy, having done post graduate studies in the UK. One of the things we learnt about in our course was the position of the cervix and how that could affect the rate of dilation during labour. The theory being that if the cervix is held posteriorly then the uterine contractions will not be pushing the baby's head directly over the cervix and thus decrease the rate of dilatation. AS part of my course I spent some time observing midwives in the hospital setting in the UK. I discussed this with them and they told me that they recorded the position of the cervix as being posterior or not during labour, but did not correlate this to predicted outcome. So after all that blurb.. what I wanted to know is: in Australia is the position of the cervix noted? and secondly is there any correlation made to rate of dilation of the cervix? I was wanting to know peoples opinion on this, since as an osteopath it is something that I could assess and offer some treatment for ( by addressing tension in the uterosacral ligaments etc.), thus hopefully helping the natural progression of labour. I would be interested in any feedback that anyone may have. And I must finish with saying that I really enjoy reading all the emails and I have learnt a lot from it. So thanks to all Simone Keddy
Re: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption
Hi, I am also very interested in this subject if anyone has info - much appreciated! Rachel - Original Message - From: axelbys [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:29 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption Does anyone have any information on placental abruption or pregnancies following an abruption, particularly a complete PA, resulting in FDIU. Thanks. A. Axelby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
