Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Marilyn Kleidon]

And so does Canada. Wow Denise, I empathise, I 
really do.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Denise Hynd 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  
  Dear Liz 
  Once the elections are out of the way (one in WA 
  also coming up) I also am thinking of a year or 2 in either NZ or the UK to 
  keep  my skills and energy up!!
   
  I did my mid there many moons ago and have a 
  friend marrying there next year.
   
  Meanwhile I cannot emotionally or morally 
  support our medicalised birthing environment and I wish  that the 
  majority of Australian midwives would acknowledge that whilst they 
  support it and also do not work to change it, it will continue for those 
  reasons not because it can not be changed !!
   
  I feel  positve that change will increase 
  and occur not only becuase of the efforts of Maternity Coalition but 
  finally by efforts being made by Barb Vernon and others at the ACMI who are 
  working for real change and inspire others to act in concert with them and 
  MC.
   
  NZ shows us that in concert political action by 
  women and midwives can effect real change..
   
  Denise Hynd
   
  "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  
  For, indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."  Margaret 
  Mead
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Liz 
Newnham 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:09 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Thanks Tania, Lois and 
Marilyn,
it all helps. Andrea, I 
would love to come to Sydney for Maggie's workshop (I've heard her talk at 
two futurebirth conferences, and she's wonderful). I just feel that I would 
like someone around for a while while I'm starting out. It's not only that 
I've been trained in the system, it's also because of my relative 
inexperience. That's why I'm thinking that a year in a caseload 
practice (not many in my area - none in fact) in NZ or UK wpuld give me the 
grounding I need.
Denise, I totally 
sympathise. I too am working on NMAP and MC stuff, and really don't 
know what to do next. Oh for a (big) fairy godmother.
blessings to you 
all,
Liz 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:30 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Hi Tania:
   
  I don't think there is any research that 
  indicates an increased risk of the cervix closing during a physiological 
  third stage or expectant management of third stage. The risk of the cervix 
  closing before the birth of the placenta is associated with active 
  management of third stage that is it (the risk) increases after the 
  oxytocic has been administered, hence the often or 
  apparently aggressive delivery of the placenta in active management. 
  There is increased risk of PPH with expectant mangement of third stage 
  (note not true physiological management) as evidenced in the trials on the 
  Cochrane data base. I have read discussions that argue that this 
  increased  risk of PPH may be due to provider/care giver error 
  in how they manage expectant management ie how aggressive are they with 
  placental delivery are they prepared to watvh and wait as jan has 
  indicated?
   
  marilyn
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Tania 
& Laurie 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:02 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Liz
As a mid student, I have also wondered 
about the cervix closing before the placenta is birthed. With the birth 
of my third child (at home) we opted for a physiological third stage and 
have since done some research on the timing of cord clamping. It seems 
there is a lot of supportive literature for delayed cord clamping with 
one of the few factors against it being the fear of the cervix closing 
before birth of the placenta.
 
Tania

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Liz 
  Newnham 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 
  6:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Hi 
  Jan,
  thanks so much 
  for your post. I too would love to work outside the hospital system 
  however being a recent graduate and having no-one to "apprentice" me, 
  I lack the confidence to do so. I feel my only option is to work 
  overseas for a while (an expensive option with 3 chil

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Marilyn Kleidon]

wow Mary, unbelievable.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mary 
  Murphy 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 9:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D 
  problems..
  
  Marilyn wrote:
  > in fact we would have been breaking the law if we had attended 
  a> birth without emergency oxytocics and if we didn't have the 
  knowledge about> when to administer them emergently then we would never 
  have been licensed.We would also be seen as and diciplined for 
  being negligent..but it doesn't change the fact that we have no authority to 
  give drugs, order simple blood work, Ultrasound, CTG etc. without the 
  doctors written order.  The Pilot of  "The expanded role of the 
  midwife" is currently being tried in 3 hospital sites in W.A.  The 
  homebirth midwives on the Govt funded program and those in private practice, 
  never got a look in.  We are really the ones who get desperate for ways 
  of supplying what we are expected to provide.  Most G.P's & hospital 
  clinics refuse to give women prescriptions for their back-up drugs (Synto 
  etc)because "they won't be present when it is being administered." 
  It is certainly still a battle.  > So if you need 
  a doctors order can't this be covered by a standing order> from the doc 
  you consult  or refer to? No. "standing orders", even in 
  hospital are not legal, that is why they are looking to introduce the 
  "expanded role" in hospitals.  
    Is there any university here that offers a Pharmaceutical 
  Course and Legal issues for independant midwives?Just doing a course 
  won't make it legal.  There is a course that goes along 
  with the expanded role of the midwife program, but as I said, we are not 
  included. MM

Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres

[Denise Hynd]

Dear jane

If you are presenting information on available birthing options in Oz surely
that would include the Caseload options available and the efforts to
increase these so clients in the future would have a lead on where they
might find out about those in the pipeline???
Denise Hynd

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
Margaret Mead
- Original Message - 
From: "Jane Palmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres


> Dear Denise
>
> I am only going to include Birth Centres that in operation (or that will
be
> by December)
>
> Cheers
>
> Jane
>
>
> Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
> www.pregnancy.com.au
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Denise Hynd
> Sent: Friday, 16 July 2004 7:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres
>
>
> Jane
> Are you includiing information about NMAP and the case load ooptions in Oz
> and those in the pipeline??
> Denise Hynd
>
> "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
> indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
> Margaret Mead
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jane Palmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:12 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres
>
>
> > Hi
> >
> > It has been ages (probably a year or two) since I have contributed to
this
> > list. Rejoined a little while ago to get back in touch with midwifery
and
> > birthing.
> >
> > I was hoping that you could help me. I am currently revising the book
> > 'Pregnancy For Dummies' Aust and NZ edition and  I am very keen to have
a
> > greater midwifery focus to this edition. Have decided to put a list of
> > current "Midwifery Led Birth Centres" both here in Australia and in New
> > Zealand as well as their contact details. Any information on Birth
Centres
> > that you can send my way would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jane Palmer
> >
> > Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
> > www.pregnancy.com.au
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Liz 
Once the elections are out of the way (one in WA 
also coming up) I also am thinking of a year or 2 in either NZ or the UK to 
keep  my skills and energy up!!
 
I did my mid there many moons ago and have a friend 
marrying there next year.
 
Meanwhile I cannot emotionally or morally 
support our medicalised birthing environment and I wish  that the majority 
of Australian midwives would acknowledge that whilst they support it and 
also do not work to change it, it will continue for those reasons not because it 
can not be changed !!
 
I feel  positve that change will increase and 
occur not only becuase of the efforts of Maternity Coalition but finally by 
efforts being made by Barb Vernon and others at the ACMI who are working for 
real change and inspire others to act in concert with them and MC.
 
NZ shows us that in concert political action by 
women and midwives can effect real change..
 
Denise Hynd
 
"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For, 
indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."  Margaret Mead

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Liz 
  Newnham 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  
  Thanks Tania, Lois and 
  Marilyn,
  it all helps. Andrea, I 
  would love to come to Sydney for Maggie's workshop (I've heard her talk at two 
  futurebirth conferences, and she's wonderful). I just feel that I would like 
  someone around for a while while I'm starting out. It's not only that I've 
  been trained in the system, it's also because of my relative 
  inexperience. That's why I'm thinking that a year in a caseload practice 
  (not many in my area - none in fact) in NZ or UK wpuld give me the grounding I 
  need.
  Denise, I totally 
  sympathise. I too am working on NMAP and MC stuff, and really don't know 
  what to do next. Oh for a (big) fairy godmother.
  blessings to you 
  all,
  Liz 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Marilyn 
Kleidon 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:30 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Hi Tania:
 
I don't think there is any research that 
indicates an increased risk of the cervix closing during a physiological 
third stage or expectant management of third stage. The risk of the cervix 
closing before the birth of the placenta is associated with active 
management of third stage that is it (the risk) increases after the oxytocic 
has been administered, hence the often or apparently aggressive 
delivery of the placenta in active management. There is increased risk of 
PPH with expectant mangement of third stage (note not true physiological 
management) as evidenced in the trials on the Cochrane data base. I have 
read discussions that argue that this increased  risk of PPH may 
be due to provider/care giver error in how they manage expectant management 
ie how aggressive are they with placental delivery are they prepared to 
watvh and wait as jan has indicated?
 
marilyn
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Tania 
  & Laurie 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:02 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Liz
  As a mid student, I have also wondered about 
  the cervix closing before the placenta is birthed. With the birth of my 
  third child (at home) we opted for a physiological third stage and have 
  since done some research on the timing of cord clamping. It seems there is 
  a lot of supportive literature for delayed cord clamping with one of the 
  few factors against it being the fear of the cervix closing before birth 
  of the placenta.
   
  Tania
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Liz 
Newnham 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:59 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Hi 
Jan,
thanks so much for 
your post. I too would love to work outside the hospital system however 
being a recent graduate and having no-one to "apprentice" me, I lack the 
confidence to do so. I feel my only option is to work overseas for a 
while (an expensive option with 3 children and partner in tow). In the 
meantime I embrace the wise-woman knowledge I encounter on this list. I 
have another question too. The docs where I work have the fear that the 
cervix will close before the placenta can birth. I think this is their 
reasoning for manual removals if they are not out in the specified time 
frame. Is this because of the syntocinon given for medically managed 
third stage, or is this a realistic possibility also for physiological 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Mary Murphy]

- Original Message - 
From: "Lynne Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..


> Hi Mary - did you receive the waterbirth information I sent you? Hope all
is
> well - I am sure you are as busy as ever!
> Warm regards,Lynne
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..
>
>
> > There is a legal problem with the Poison's Act about administering
certain
> > drugs (Schedule 4) without a doctors order.  Often it is not the
obtaining
> > of the drug, but the authority to use it that can cause problems.  Check
> > your state's Poison's Act.  MM
> > >
> > > there is a company called Livingstone international
> > > toll free phone 1300 780 078
> > > www.livingstone.com.au
> > >
> > > (that has on office in sydney who have the most amazing catelogue on
> > > line. Its worth a look for anyone wanting to buy supplies. They set
you
> > > up with an account, you can order by phone or on line, the stuff
arrives
> > > within a day or so and you can pay by all the usual methods.  the
> > > catelogue includes an amazing array of drugs. I haven't tried to by
the
> > > narcotics even though they are all listed there but Syntocinon is on
> > > their list. I rang and asked whether one needed  a script to order it
> > > and was told no they were quite happy to ship it, packed with
> > > coolers!! Ive never needed to use it but have it on hand
> > >
> > > Unfortunately Anti D has to come from Bloodbank so they dont have that
> > >
> > > Andrea Q
> > >
> > > On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:34  AM, Lynne Staff wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Sue
> > > > Even thought you posted mistakenly, can I just say in response to
your
> > > > final
> > > > comment 'is this worth it?' Yes, it is.
> > > > I had problems with some docs re anti D but found a supportive ob
who
> > > > said
> > > > if ever I needed anti D orders, or supplies and was having trouble,
he
> > > > would
> > > > organize it for me without any fuss. I didn't ever require his
> > > > assistance
> > > > again, as I liased with the local blood bank, where the hospitals
> obtain
> > > > their supplies, and have never had a problem since - occasionally
with
> > > > an
> > > > order for its administration (from GPs etc), but have always managed
> to
> > > > talk
> > > > them around. The synto is the one I had the most trouble with - GPs
> > > > telling
> > > > me their medical advisory committee told them not to write the
> > > > prescription
> > > > for a medication they were not going to personally administer!!!
Have
> > > > you
> > > > ever heard such a load.der - they do that all day every day!
> > > > Every time I came up against a brick wall about something, I always
> come
> > > > away with more knowledge and strategies for the future!
> > > > Warm regards, Lynne
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:07 PM
> > > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Jan,
> > > >> Seem to be hitting a few problems here, and am forever aware of my
> > > >> (il)legal status.
> > > >> Had a lovely slow primip birth on Sunday(46 hours - mostly
prelabour
> > > >> but
> > > >> still needing support), Rh pos baby, so went to Mullum hospital
armed
> > > >> with the baby's blood results (which I'd got from the receptioinsts
> at
> > > >> my back-up doctor's surgery). My back-up doctor had just left for a
2
> > > >> week break, so I contacted his back-up doctor. This guy was off for
> the
> > > >> day, so I spoke with his boss who happened to be a personal
> friend(?).
> > > >> Well, all shit let loose cos this guy decided it was completely
wrong
> > > >> for me to have access to the anti-Don the woman's behalf. He phoned
> > > >> Mullum hospital and told the nurse administrator (Jane Ackerman) I
> > > >> was a
> > > >> lay midwife and then all these people in the hospital came up to me
> > > >> telling me I was a lay midwife. Nightmare!!
> > > >> To cut the story short, I ended up having to take the women in to
the
> > > >> hospital for her jab. I had called the mum and she had given me the
> > > >> name
> > > >> of a reg nurse friend who was happy to do  injection but that
seemed
> to
> > > >> become irrelevant. The hospital maintained they couldn't send out a
> > > >> midwife cos she wasn't under their care, and that they didn't have
> the
> > > >> right paperwork to make changes to any of that.
> > > >> I then dropped in and spoke with Jane Ackerman again today, and she
> > > >> seems very supportive saying that she was supporting women's right
to
> > > >> choose whoever and that wasn't an issue, but that we just needed to
> > > >> sort
> > > >> out the systems so that the women's needs can be met.
> > > >> Do y

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Mary Murphy]

Marilyn wrote:
> in fact we would have been breaking the law if we had attended 
a> birth without emergency oxytocics and if we didn't have the knowledge 
about> when to administer them emergently then we would never have been 
licensed.We would also be seen as and diciplined for being 
negligent..but it doesn't change the fact that we have no authority to give 
drugs, order simple blood work, Ultrasound, CTG etc. without the doctors 
written order.  The Pilot of  "The expanded role of the 
midwife" is currently being tried in 3 hospital sites in W.A.  The 
homebirth midwives on the Govt funded program and those in private practice, 
never got a look in.  We are really the ones who get desperate for ways of 
supplying what we are expected to provide.  Most G.P's & hospital 
clinics refuse to give women prescriptions for their back-up drugs (Synto 
etc)because "they won't be present when it is being administered." 
It is certainly still a battle.  > So if you need a 
doctors order can't this be covered by a standing order> from the doc you 
consult  or refer to? No. "standing orders", even in hospital 
are not legal, that is why they are looking to introduce the "expanded role" in 
hospitals.  
  Is there any university here that offers a Pharmaceutical 
Course and Legal issues for independant midwives?Just doing a course 
won't make it legal.  There is a course that goes along 
with the expanded role of the midwife program, but as I said, we are not 
included. MM

RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres

[Jane Palmer]

Dear Denise

I am only going to include Birth Centres that in operation (or that will be
by December)

Cheers

Jane


Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
www.pregnancy.com.au



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Denise Hynd
Sent: Friday, 16 July 2004 7:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres


Jane
Are you includiing information about NMAP and the case load ooptions in Oz
and those in the pipeline??
Denise Hynd

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
Margaret Mead
- Original Message -
From: "Jane Palmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:12 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres


> Hi
>
> It has been ages (probably a year or two) since I have contributed to this
> list. Rejoined a little while ago to get back in touch with midwifery and
> birthing.
>
> I was hoping that you could help me. I am currently revising the book
> 'Pregnancy For Dummies' Aust and NZ edition and  I am very keen to have a
> greater midwifery focus to this edition. Have decided to put a list of
> current "Midwifery Led Birth Centres" both here in Australia and in New
> Zealand as well as their contact details. Any information on Birth Centres
> that you can send my way would be much appreciated.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jane Palmer
>
> Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
> www.pregnancy.com.au
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Lynne Staff]

Hi Mary - did you receive the waterbirth information I sent you? Hope all is
well - I am sure you are as busy as ever!
Warm regards,Lynne
- Original Message -
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..


> There is a legal problem with the Poison's Act about administering certain
> drugs (Schedule 4) without a doctors order.  Often it is not the obtaining
> of the drug, but the authority to use it that can cause problems.  Check
> your state's Poison's Act.  MM
> >
> > there is a company called Livingstone international
> > toll free phone 1300 780 078
> > www.livingstone.com.au
> >
> > (that has on office in sydney who have the most amazing catelogue on
> > line. Its worth a look for anyone wanting to buy supplies. They set you
> > up with an account, you can order by phone or on line, the stuff arrives
> > within a day or so and you can pay by all the usual methods.  the
> > catelogue includes an amazing array of drugs. I haven't tried to by the
> > narcotics even though they are all listed there but Syntocinon is on
> > their list. I rang and asked whether one needed  a script to order it
> > and was told no they were quite happy to ship it, packed with
> > coolers!! Ive never needed to use it but have it on hand
> >
> > Unfortunately Anti D has to come from Bloodbank so they dont have that
> >
> > Andrea Q
> >
> > On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:34  AM, Lynne Staff wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sue
> > > Even thought you posted mistakenly, can I just say in response to your
> > > final
> > > comment 'is this worth it?' Yes, it is.
> > > I had problems with some docs re anti D but found a supportive ob who
> > > said
> > > if ever I needed anti D orders, or supplies and was having trouble, he
> > > would
> > > organize it for me without any fuss. I didn't ever require his
> > > assistance
> > > again, as I liased with the local blood bank, where the hospitals
obtain
> > > their supplies, and have never had a problem since - occasionally with
> > > an
> > > order for its administration (from GPs etc), but have always managed
to
> > > talk
> > > them around. The synto is the one I had the most trouble with - GPs
> > > telling
> > > me their medical advisory committee told them not to write the
> > > prescription
> > > for a medication they were not going to personally administer!!! Have
> > > you
> > > ever heard such a load.der - they do that all day every day!
> > > Every time I came up against a brick wall about something, I always
come
> > > away with more knowledge and strategies for the future!
> > > Warm regards, Lynne
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:07 PM
> > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi Jan,
> > >> Seem to be hitting a few problems here, and am forever aware of my
> > >> (il)legal status.
> > >> Had a lovely slow primip birth on Sunday(46 hours - mostly prelabour
> > >> but
> > >> still needing support), Rh pos baby, so went to Mullum hospital armed
> > >> with the baby's blood results (which I'd got from the receptioinsts
at
> > >> my back-up doctor's surgery). My back-up doctor had just left for a 2
> > >> week break, so I contacted his back-up doctor. This guy was off for
the
> > >> day, so I spoke with his boss who happened to be a personal
friend(?).
> > >> Well, all shit let loose cos this guy decided it was completely wrong
> > >> for me to have access to the anti-Don the woman's behalf. He phoned
> > >> Mullum hospital and told the nurse administrator (Jane Ackerman) I
> > >> was a
> > >> lay midwife and then all these people in the hospital came up to me
> > >> telling me I was a lay midwife. Nightmare!!
> > >> To cut the story short, I ended up having to take the women in to the
> > >> hospital for her jab. I had called the mum and she had given me the
> > >> name
> > >> of a reg nurse friend who was happy to do  injection but that seemed
to
> > >> become irrelevant. The hospital maintained they couldn't send out a
> > >> midwife cos she wasn't under their care, and that they didn't have
the
> > >> right paperwork to make changes to any of that.
> > >> I then dropped in and spoke with Jane Ackerman again today, and she
> > >> seems very supportive saying that she was supporting women's right to
> > >> choose whoever and that wasn't an issue, but that we just needed to
> > >> sort
> > >> out the systems so that the women's needs can be met.
> > >> Do you happen to know Jane Ackerman?
> > >> What do you do about anti-d?
> > >> Yuk!!
> > >> And my next two women are also rhesus neg...
> > >>
> > >> Boy Jan, is all this worth it??
> > >> Sue
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > >> Visit  to subscribe or unsubsc

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Hi mary:

This is one of the reasons I haven't started to practice independently here:
I don't know the drug laws. Coming from a state that had a Midwives Act
which was written by and directed towards independent midwives  this is a
huge boulder of a stumbling block for me. In Washington we had this
authority, infact we would have been breaking the law if we had attended a
birth without emergency oxytocics and if we didn't have the knowledge about
when to administer them emergently then we would never have been licensed.
Certainly we threw out more than we ever used but that was just a basic
practice cost and there is no point in carry drugs that have expired.

Vent done.

So if you need a doctors order can't this be covered by a standing order
from the doc you consult  or refer to?  Would it have to be reissued for
each woman you care for?  Is there any university here that offers a
Pharmaceutical Course and Legal issues for independant midwives?

marilyn
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..


> There is a legal problem with the Poison's Act about administering certain
> drugs (Schedule 4) without a doctors order.  Often it is not the obtaining
> of the drug, but the authority to use it that can cause problems.  Check
> your state's Poison's Act.  MM
> >
> > there is a company called Livingstone international
> > toll free phone 1300 780 078
> > www.livingstone.com.au
> >
> > (that has on office in sydney who have the most amazing catelogue on
> > line. Its worth a look for anyone wanting to buy supplies. They set you
> > up with an account, you can order by phone or on line, the stuff arrives
> > within a day or so and you can pay by all the usual methods.  the
> > catelogue includes an amazing array of drugs. I haven't tried to by the
> > narcotics even though they are all listed there but Syntocinon is on
> > their list. I rang and asked whether one needed  a script to order it
> > and was told no they were quite happy to ship it, packed with
> > coolers!! Ive never needed to use it but have it on hand
> >
> > Unfortunately Anti D has to come from Bloodbank so they dont have that
> >
> > Andrea Q
> >
> > On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:34  AM, Lynne Staff wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sue
> > > Even thought you posted mistakenly, can I just say in response to your
> > > final
> > > comment 'is this worth it?' Yes, it is.
> > > I had problems with some docs re anti D but found a supportive ob who
> > > said
> > > if ever I needed anti D orders, or supplies and was having trouble, he
> > > would
> > > organize it for me without any fuss. I didn't ever require his
> > > assistance
> > > again, as I liased with the local blood bank, where the hospitals
obtain
> > > their supplies, and have never had a problem since - occasionally with
> > > an
> > > order for its administration (from GPs etc), but have always managed
to
> > > talk
> > > them around. The synto is the one I had the most trouble with - GPs
> > > telling
> > > me their medical advisory committee told them not to write the
> > > prescription
> > > for a medication they were not going to personally administer!!! Have
> > > you
> > > ever heard such a load.der - they do that all day every day!
> > > Every time I came up against a brick wall about something, I always
come
> > > away with more knowledge and strategies for the future!
> > > Warm regards, Lynne
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:07 PM
> > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi Jan,
> > >> Seem to be hitting a few problems here, and am forever aware of my
> > >> (il)legal status.
> > >> Had a lovely slow primip birth on Sunday(46 hours - mostly prelabour
> > >> but
> > >> still needing support), Rh pos baby, so went to Mullum hospital armed
> > >> with the baby's blood results (which I'd got from the receptioinsts
at
> > >> my back-up doctor's surgery). My back-up doctor had just left for a 2
> > >> week break, so I contacted his back-up doctor. This guy was off for
the
> > >> day, so I spoke with his boss who happened to be a personal
friend(?).
> > >> Well, all shit let loose cos this guy decided it was completely wrong
> > >> for me to have access to the anti-Don the woman's behalf. He phoned
> > >> Mullum hospital and told the nurse administrator (Jane Ackerman) I
> > >> was a
> > >> lay midwife and then all these people in the hospital came up to me
> > >> telling me I was a lay midwife. Nightmare!!
> > >> To cut the story short, I ended up having to take the women in to the
> > >> hospital for her jab. I had called the mum and she had given me the
> > >> name
> > >> of a reg nurse friend who was happy to do  injection but that seemed
to
> > >> become irrelevant. The hospital maintained they couldn't send out

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth in Aust

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I totally agree Denise. As professional midwives we also need the authority
to order our own drugs (and there would have to be a limitation on what that
list includes)  including the full list of emergency oxytocics, anti-D,
vitamin K, and possibly but not necessarily relevant vaccinations: hep B,
rubella etc.. There are overseas Health Department
protocols/statutes/regulations for this, i am not reinventing the wheel.
Along with this goes the authority to order our own lab tests from the path
labs. I don't understand why in the 21st century we have to find a friendly
doctor to get this done. As midwives in the country we are either qualified
to practice independently or we are not. How would you feel if your dentist
had to get a prescription from your GP before she gave you novacaine for a
filling? And she didn't carry emergency drugs on her premises when she was
treating you?

As a licensed midwife in Washington State I had to carry the full complement
of emergency oxytocics, plus mag suphate, plus epinephrine, and we were
licensed to carry anti-D and the vaccinations in our premises. We had
standing orders from an OB for intrapartum IV antibiotics. We had our own
account with a pharmaceutical company. I don't know of anyone who ever used
the mag suphate or epinephrine in the last 30 years of practice but the drug
was there along with the procedure taped to our bag and the forms for
notification of the health dept IF we ever did have to use either of these
drugs. Getting oxygen cylinders filled up was a simple procedure. And the
path labs picked up our samples from our collection boxes and faxed us the
results. From what I have read the situation is similar in New Zealand and
Canada, I have no idea about the UK.

These basics of independent practice seem to be glossed over here perhaps
because many of you who practice independently have had the good fortune of
knowing sympathetic/empathetic docs. But for those of us starting out in a
new place the issue around finding these basics can itself be formidable.
Compound that with the insurance fiasco and the apparent acceptance of the
status quo by most (not all) health care recipients (sorry but I do have a
dreadfully hard time with the word consumer for just about everything but
especially health care) and it does not surprise me that we have such an
ever diminishing number of independent midwives.

4am and jet lagged

marilyn
- Original Message - 
From: "Denise Hynd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth in Aust


> Dear Andrea
> I will look at coming to Sydney for Maggie's workshop..
> I am currently working a Nursing Home!!
>
> I have tried Private Practis and would again tomorrow if I could earn
enough
> to pay my mortgage (which is low) and feed myself and put petrol in my
car!!
>
> It takes a while to biuld up a practice!
> I tried all sorts of things for 2 years and had 5 clients!!
>
> So it takes more than confidence.
>
> That is why I have been busy with MC and NMAP.
> Also I have tried to get a program on ABC Australian Story and Reality
Bites
> about 1-2-1 midwifery (something in piepline for GNT as a result tho).
>
> Even Perth women believe hospital and doctors are necessary for birth the
> demand beyond the CMP is insufficient to full employ those midwives and
many
> of them also have a few private clients..
>
> Australian women and midwives need to see  Australian led midwifery birth
on
> TV.
>
> Have I mised something was there any discussion of the  Birthrites program
> ??
> Denise Hynd
>
> "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
> indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
> Margaret Mead
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms
>
>
> > Hi Liz,
> >
> > I know that you are not the only midwife working within the system who
> > would love to take the plunge and become and independent practitioner.
> Many
> > have told me that what is stopping them is a lack of confidence.
> >
> > To help all these aspiring independent practitioners (and those who want
> to
> > feel more authoritative within the system), we have asked Maggie Banks
to
> > present her highly acclaimed Midwifery Intensives workshop in Sydney in
> > November. This 2 1/2 day course covers dealing with midwifery
emergencies
> > (a bit like the ALSO Course, but with a midwifery focus not a medical
> model
> > approach) and is designed to instill confidence, improve practical
skills,
>
> > provide an evidence base for practice and encourage autonomy. The full
> > details will be on the web site next week and in the catalogue that is
> > coming out on 2 weeks.
> >
> > This might be just what you need, and  lot closer to home.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> >
> > At 07:29 PM 14/07/2004, you wrote:
> > >Hi J

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Mary Murphy]

There is a legal problem with the Poison's Act about administering certain
drugs (Schedule 4) without a doctors order.  Often it is not the obtaining
of the drug, but the authority to use it that can cause problems.  Check
your state's Poison's Act.  MM
>
> there is a company called Livingstone international
> toll free phone 1300 780 078
> www.livingstone.com.au
>
> (that has on office in sydney who have the most amazing catelogue on
> line. Its worth a look for anyone wanting to buy supplies. They set you
> up with an account, you can order by phone or on line, the stuff arrives
> within a day or so and you can pay by all the usual methods.  the
> catelogue includes an amazing array of drugs. I haven't tried to by the
> narcotics even though they are all listed there but Syntocinon is on
> their list. I rang and asked whether one needed  a script to order it
> and was told no they were quite happy to ship it, packed with
> coolers!! Ive never needed to use it but have it on hand
>
> Unfortunately Anti D has to come from Bloodbank so they dont have that
>
> Andrea Q
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:34  AM, Lynne Staff wrote:
>
> > Hi Sue
> > Even thought you posted mistakenly, can I just say in response to your
> > final
> > comment 'is this worth it?' Yes, it is.
> > I had problems with some docs re anti D but found a supportive ob who
> > said
> > if ever I needed anti D orders, or supplies and was having trouble, he
> > would
> > organize it for me without any fuss. I didn't ever require his
> > assistance
> > again, as I liased with the local blood bank, where the hospitals obtain
> > their supplies, and have never had a problem since - occasionally with
> > an
> > order for its administration (from GPs etc), but have always managed to
> > talk
> > them around. The synto is the one I had the most trouble with - GPs
> > telling
> > me their medical advisory committee told them not to write the
> > prescription
> > for a medication they were not going to personally administer!!! Have
> > you
> > ever heard such a load.der - they do that all day every day!
> > Every time I came up against a brick wall about something, I always come
> > away with more knowledge and strategies for the future!
> > Warm regards, Lynne
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:07 PM
> > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..
> >
> >
> >> Hi Jan,
> >> Seem to be hitting a few problems here, and am forever aware of my
> >> (il)legal status.
> >> Had a lovely slow primip birth on Sunday(46 hours - mostly prelabour
> >> but
> >> still needing support), Rh pos baby, so went to Mullum hospital armed
> >> with the baby's blood results (which I'd got from the receptioinsts at
> >> my back-up doctor's surgery). My back-up doctor had just left for a 2
> >> week break, so I contacted his back-up doctor. This guy was off for the
> >> day, so I spoke with his boss who happened to be a personal friend(?).
> >> Well, all shit let loose cos this guy decided it was completely wrong
> >> for me to have access to the anti-Don the woman's behalf. He phoned
> >> Mullum hospital and told the nurse administrator (Jane Ackerman) I
> >> was a
> >> lay midwife and then all these people in the hospital came up to me
> >> telling me I was a lay midwife. Nightmare!!
> >> To cut the story short, I ended up having to take the women in to the
> >> hospital for her jab. I had called the mum and she had given me the
> >> name
> >> of a reg nurse friend who was happy to do  injection but that seemed to
> >> become irrelevant. The hospital maintained they couldn't send out a
> >> midwife cos she wasn't under their care, and that they didn't have the
> >> right paperwork to make changes to any of that.
> >> I then dropped in and spoke with Jane Ackerman again today, and she
> >> seems very supportive saying that she was supporting women's right to
> >> choose whoever and that wasn't an issue, but that we just needed to
> >> sort
> >> out the systems so that the women's needs can be met.
> >> Do you happen to know Jane Ackerman?
> >> What do you do about anti-d?
> >> Yuk!!
> >> And my next two women are also rhesus neg...
> >>
> >> Boy Jan, is all this worth it??
> >> Sue
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
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Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Liz Newnham]

Thanks Tania, Lois and 
Marilyn,
it all helps. Andrea, I 
would love to come to Sydney for Maggie's workshop (I've heard her talk at two 
futurebirth conferences, and she's wonderful). I just feel that I would like 
someone around for a while while I'm starting out. It's not only that I've been 
trained in the system, it's also because of my relative 
inexperience. That's why I'm thinking that a year in a caseload practice 
(not many in my area - none in fact) in NZ or UK wpuld give me the grounding I 
need.
Denise, I totally 
sympathise. I too am working on NMAP and MC stuff, and really don't know 
what to do next. Oh for a (big) fairy godmother.
blessings to you 
all,
Liz 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:30 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  
  Hi Tania:
   
  I don't think there is any research that 
  indicates an increased risk of the cervix closing during a physiological third 
  stage or expectant management of third stage. The risk of the cervix closing 
  before the birth of the placenta is associated with active management of third 
  stage that is it (the risk) increases after the oxytocic has been 
  administered, hence the often or apparently aggressive delivery of the 
  placenta in active management. There is increased risk of PPH with expectant 
  mangement of third stage (note not true physiological management) as evidenced 
  in the trials on the Cochrane data base. I have read discussions that argue 
  that this increased  risk of PPH may be due to provider/care giver 
  error in how they manage expectant management ie how aggressive are they with 
  placental delivery are they prepared to watvh and wait as jan has 
  indicated?
   
  marilyn
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Tania 
& Laurie 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:02 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Liz
As a mid student, I have also wondered about 
the cervix closing before the placenta is birthed. With the birth of my 
third child (at home) we opted for a physiological third stage and have 
since done some research on the timing of cord clamping. It seems there is a 
lot of supportive literature for delayed cord clamping with one of the few 
factors against it being the fear of the cervix closing before birth of the 
placenta.
 
Tania

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Liz 
  Newnham 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:59 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Hi Jan,
  thanks so much for 
  your post. I too would love to work outside the hospital system however 
  being a recent graduate and having no-one to "apprentice" me, I lack the 
  confidence to do so. I feel my only option is to work overseas for a while 
  (an expensive option with 3 children and partner in tow). In the meantime 
  I embrace the wise-woman knowledge I encounter on this list. I have 
  another question too. The docs where I work have the fear that the cervix 
  will close before the placenta can birth. I think this is their reasoning 
  for manual removals if they are not out in the specified time frame. Is 
  this because of the syntocinon given for medically managed third stage, or 
  is this a realistic possibility also for physiological third stage? Once 
  again, forgive my ignorance.
  blessings,Liz.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Jan 
Robinson 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:42 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms
Hi LizI'm lucky that I work outside the hospital 
system so the guidelines used are safety and the mother's wishes. While 
ever there is no bleeding I leave well enough alone. It is not good to 
meddle when conducting a physiologic third stage. Although emergency 
drugs are in the family fridge they are not used unless excessive 
bleeding necessitates it.In this particular case the woman had 
been vomiting towards the end of a very long first labour so she was 
exhausted after giving birth. After warm herbal tea for fluid 
replacement (and some home-made chocolate brownie to restore her blood 
sugar levels) she put her newborn son to the breast but after that she 
just wanted to close her eyes and sleep. As it was well past 
midnight, that was what I wanted as well, I tucked my client into 
her bed where she promptly fell asleep. I slept (very lightly) on the 
floor beside her. When she awoke in the early hours of the morning she 
emptied her bladder. I thought the placent

Re: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..

[Andrea Quanchi]

Lynne & Sue
there is a company called Livingstone international
toll free phone 1300 780 078
www.livingstone.com.au
(that has on office in sydney who have the most amazing catelogue on 
line. Its worth a look for anyone wanting to buy supplies. They set you 
up with an account, you can order by phone or on line, the stuff arrives 
within a day or so and you can pay by all the usual methods.  the 
catelogue includes an amazing array of drugs. I haven't tried to by the 
narcotics even though they are all listed there but Syntocinon is on 
their list. I rang and asked whether one needed  a script to order it 
and was told no they were quite happy to ship it, packed with 
coolers!! Ive never needed to use it but have it on hand

Unfortunately Anti D has to come from Bloodbank so they dont have that
Andrea Q
On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 07:34  AM, Lynne Staff wrote:
Hi Sue
Even thought you posted mistakenly, can I just say in response to your 
final
comment 'is this worth it?' Yes, it is.
I had problems with some docs re anti D but found a supportive ob who 
said
if ever I needed anti D orders, or supplies and was having trouble, he 
would
organize it for me without any fuss. I didn't ever require his 
assistance
again, as I liased with the local blood bank, where the hospitals obtain
their supplies, and have never had a problem since - occasionally with 
an
order for its administration (from GPs etc), but have always managed to 
talk
them around. The synto is the one I had the most trouble with - GPs 
telling
me their medical advisory committee told them not to write the 
prescription
for a medication they were not going to personally administer!!! Have 
you
ever heard such a load.der - they do that all day every day!
Every time I came up against a brick wall about something, I always come
away with more knowledge and strategies for the future!
Warm regards, Lynne
- Original Message -
From: "Sue Cookson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Anti D problems..


Hi Jan,
Seem to be hitting a few problems here, and am forever aware of my
(il)legal status.
Had a lovely slow primip birth on Sunday(46 hours - mostly prelabour 
but
still needing support), Rh pos baby, so went to Mullum hospital armed
with the baby's blood results (which I'd got from the receptioinsts at
my back-up doctor's surgery). My back-up doctor had just left for a 2
week break, so I contacted his back-up doctor. This guy was off for the
day, so I spoke with his boss who happened to be a personal friend(?).
Well, all shit let loose cos this guy decided it was completely wrong
for me to have access to the anti-Don the woman's behalf. He phoned
Mullum hospital and told the nurse administrator (Jane Ackerman) I 
was a
lay midwife and then all these people in the hospital came up to me
telling me I was a lay midwife. Nightmare!!
To cut the story short, I ended up having to take the women in to the
hospital for her jab. I had called the mum and she had given me the 
name
of a reg nurse friend who was happy to do  injection but that seemed to
become irrelevant. The hospital maintained they couldn't send out a
midwife cos she wasn't under their care, and that they didn't have the
right paperwork to make changes to any of that.
I then dropped in and spoke with Jane Ackerman again today, and she
seems very supportive saying that she was supporting women's right to
choose whoever and that wasn't an issue, but that we just needed to 
sort
out the systems so that the women's needs can be met.
Do you happen to know Jane Ackerman?
What do you do about anti-d?
Yuk!!
And my next two women are also rhesus neg...

Boy Jan, is all this worth it??
Sue



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Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth in Aust

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Andrea
I will look at coming to Sydney for Maggie's workshop..
I am currently working a Nursing Home!!

I have tried Private Practis and would again tomorrow if I could earn enough
to pay my mortgage (which is low) and feed myself and put petrol in my car!!

It takes a while to biuld up a practice!
I tried all sorts of things for 2 years and had 5 clients!!

So it takes more than confidence.

That is why I have been busy with MC and NMAP.
Also I have tried to get a program on ABC Australian Story and Reality Bites
about 1-2-1 midwifery (something in piepline for GNT as a result tho).

Even Perth women believe hospital and doctors are necessary for birth the
demand beyond the CMP is insufficient to full employ those midwives and many
of them also have a few private clients..

Australian women and midwives need to see  Australian led midwifery birth on
TV.

Have I mised something was there any discussion of the  Birthrites program
??
Denise Hynd

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
Margaret Mead
- Original Message - 
From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms


> Hi Liz,
>
> I know that you are not the only midwife working within the system who
> would love to take the plunge and become and independent practitioner.
Many
> have told me that what is stopping them is a lack of confidence.
>
> To help all these aspiring independent practitioners (and those who want
to
> feel more authoritative within the system), we have asked Maggie Banks to
> present her highly acclaimed Midwifery Intensives workshop in Sydney in
> November. This 2 1/2 day course covers dealing with midwifery emergencies
> (a bit like the ALSO Course, but with a midwifery focus not a medical
model
> approach) and is designed to instill confidence, improve practical skills,

> provide an evidence base for practice and encourage autonomy. The full
> details will be on the web site next week and in the catalogue that is
> coming out on 2 weeks.
>
> This might be just what you need, and  lot closer to home.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Andrea
>
>
>
> At 07:29 PM 14/07/2004, you wrote:
> >Hi Jan,
> >thanks so much for your post. I too would love to work outside the
> >hospital system however being a recent graduate and having no-one to
> >"apprentice" me, I lack the confidence to do so. I feel my only option is
> >to work overseas for a while (an expensive option with 3 children and
> >partner in tow). In the meantime I embrace the wise-woman knowledge I
> >encounter on this list. I have another question too. The docs where I
work
> >have the fear that the cervix will close before the placenta can birth. I
> >think this is their reasoning for manual removals if they are not out in
> >the specified time frame. Is this because of the syntocinon given for
> >medically managed third stage, or is this a realistic possibility also
for
> >physiological third stage? Once again, forgive my ignorance.
> >blessings,
> >Liz.
>
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres

[Denise Hynd]

Nor are they midwifery run I suspect?
Denise Hynd

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
Margaret Mead
- Original Message - 
From: "Jane Palmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres


> Dear Julie
>
> Thanks for the tip. The ACMI list a good starting point, though the list
is
> not complete. It also appears to be an inclusive list, it lists hospitals
> that have midwifery run units that aren't necessarily 'Birth Centres'.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jane
> Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
> www.pregnancy.com.au
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Julie Clarke
> Sent: Monday, 14 July 2003 9:09 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres
>
>
> Hi Jane
> I recently saw a full listing of midwifery led birth centres on the acmi
> website.
> Hope this helps.
> Hug
> Julie
>
> Julie Clarke CBE
> Childbirth and Parenting Educator (Independent)
> ACE Grad-Dip Supervisor
> NACE Inc. Advanced Educator and Trainer
>
> Transition into Parenthood
> 9 Withybrook Pl
> Sylvania NSW 2224.
> T. (02) 9544 6441
> F. (02) 9544 9257
> Mobile 0401 2655 30
> email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.transitionintoparenthood.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jane Palmer
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2004 10:12 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres
>
> Hi
>
> It has been ages (probably a year or two) since I have contributed to this
> list. Rejoined a little while ago to get back in touch with midwifery and
> birthing.
>
> I was hoping that you could help me. I am currently revising the book
> 'Pregnancy For Dummies' Aust and NZ edition and  I am very keen to have a
> greater midwifery focus to this edition. Have decided to put a list of
> current "Midwifery Led Birth Centres" both here in Australia and in New
> Zealand as well as their contact details. Any information on Birth Centres
> that you can send my way would be much appreciated.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jane Palmer
>
> Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
> www.pregnancy.com.au
>
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres

[Denise Hynd]

Jane
Are you includiing information about NMAP and the case load ooptions in Oz
and those in the pipeline??
Denise Hynd

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  For,
indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."
Margaret Mead
- Original Message - 
From: "Jane Palmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:12 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery led birth centres


> Hi
>
> It has been ages (probably a year or two) since I have contributed to this
> list. Rejoined a little while ago to get back in touch with midwifery and
> birthing.
>
> I was hoping that you could help me. I am currently revising the book
> 'Pregnancy For Dummies' Aust and NZ edition and  I am very keen to have a
> greater midwifery focus to this edition. Have decided to put a list of
> current "Midwifery Led Birth Centres" both here in Australia and in New
> Zealand as well as their contact details. Any information on Birth Centres
> that you can send my way would be much appreciated.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jane Palmer
>
> Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond
> www.pregnancy.com.au
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


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