[ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Thanks-baby-whisperers-now-we-can-all-sleep/2004/12/12/1102786955922.html This should be of interest to you...
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
Hm, was just on the phone to a friend talking about when this would get posted on here...Pinky are you on this list? lol! As if parents need more pressure to sleep and have children that should be sleeping through. Too much focus goes on how many hours a baby sleeps or if they are a good sleeper and not enough focus goes into parenting and night time parenting. Parenting is a 24hour a day 7 day a week job. I can't believe, thatpeople believe, that a three month old should be able to put herself back to sleep?? What about the studies showing that babies still get at least 25% of their nutrition at night time if they need it? What about their tiny tummies? What about the emotional and physical impacts on the child? What about the fact that we know so much more about the psychological effects that the Tresillian method has on the child?? What about the fact that this child has had her whole life rearranged and needs her mummy and daddy to nurture and care for her not take her to a strange place and have strangers`care` for her. I don't believe that Tresillian teaches how to "understand the perspective of the infants", how can they when they use 85 year old ideas that can cause psychological damage to such a young child. Their formula is not "sleep-inducing" it is `shut down for survival` inducing. It erks me that newspapers print such propaganda. Abby http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Thanks-baby-whisperers-now-we-can-all-sleep/2004/12/12/1102786955922.html This should be of interest to you...
[ozmidwifery] AAIMHI Policy Paper on Controlled Crying
Hi, Thought I would post a link to this for anyone that may not have seen it. The policy certainly challenges much of the popular thinking about sleep training and such. http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
I can't believe, thatpeople believe, that a three month old should be able to put herself back to sleep?? Sorry, I misread the age of the child and she was 7 months when they went to Tresillian. Still far too young in my opinion, she still has such a tiny tummy and babies usually wake if they need something, not just to be annoying and inconvenient. Love Abby
[ozmidwifery] Re:
Hi Nicole, I think Sue Cox has written something about this. Don't know the reference though, I'm sorry. At my workplace if a babe has not breastfed for six hours we express mum and give it from a syringe or teaspoon. We continue to express and feed every three to four hours until babe shows an interest. Often babe will taste the EBM and then either develop a taste for it and feed straight away, or else they will wake up again for a feed in the next couple of hours. There is no need for healthy, termbabies to have comps or dextrastix. If you have access to a lactation consultant at your workplace, I suggest that you get to know him or her and use them as a resource. Kind regards, Nicole Carver, IBCLC. - Original Message - From: Nicole Hmelnitsky To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:31 AM I hope someone has an answer to my question. I am a newly graduated Certified Midwife working in a large teaching hospital. I need to find out other policies regarding the number of breastfeeds required in the first 24 hours of a healthy term newborn. If a baby has not breastfed at delivery, some midwives will perform a heel prick test for a blood glucose level after 6 hours and some will try and give a comp feed of artificial formula. I dont believe in either. Some literature has said that a newborn will feed 3 times in the first 24 hours, and the some WHO literature says a newborn should feed 8 times in the first 24 hours. I really need to know if anyone has established a policy and guideline regarding this matter. Thanks, Nicole.
Re: [ozmidwifery] AAIMHI Policy Paper on Controlled Crying
Thanks for posting this Abby - it is a good reference document to have. At the end of the document it states that the references ...are not specifically to studies on the impact of controlled crying on infants because there are no records of such studies. That surprised me! Anyone know of any that have been done already?! Anyone interested in doing one??!!! Helen - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 9:45 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] AAIMHI Policy Paper on Controlled Crying Hi, Thought I would post a link to this for anyone that may not have seen it. The policy certainly challenges much of the popular thinking about sleep training and such. http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1.946 (20041213) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.nod32.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
Hi Abby I have personally been to a family care cottage (similar to Tresillian from what I understand) with both my children. As far as I am concerned they were wonderful. I also have friends that have been down to Tresillian and have come back different people due to the sleep they are now getting. What about the studies showing that babies still get at least 25% of their nutrition at night time if they need it? What studies? Where are they? I would love to read them. As a middy student we are being taought to base our practice on evidence - would love more info on them. What about their tiny tummies? What about them? If they are hungry they will wake... otherwise they wake up ravenous in the morning for a huge feed - ie break fast! What about the emotional and physical impacts on the child? And these are? Again where is the evidence? What about the fact that we know so much more about the psychological effects that the Tresillian method has on the child?? We do? Again how and where is it, would love to be more informed. What about the fact that this child has had her whole life rearranged and needs her mummy and daddy to nurture and care for her not take her to a strange place and have strangers `care` for her. What about the parents sanity and inability to function well due to lack of sleep. I admit that babies do wake up and not all will sleep though from a young age. But a child that is constantly up and causing havoc as everyone else in the house is up and not sleeping. That's a recipe for disaster. The whole basis of Tresillian I thought, was to give the parents strategies to help their child, not to be used as a babysitting service. I think Abby that society itself functions very differently than it used to. Years ago you would have countless amounts of friends and family that were close and supportive of you, often there to help out with changing family situations and parenting. Now though families can be living on opposite sides of the world, and people do not have the close knit support and encouragement that is often needed. Hence places like Tresiliian offer a community service for women and their families. Until we live in a more open society services like this will be needed to take the place of the helpful insight that used to come from uncles, aunts, grandparents etc. Perhaps you may have a better idea on how these women can access help??? I think we also need to remember that everyone parents differently and has different parenting experiences. Katrina :-) On 13/12/2004, at 9:42 PM, Abby and Toby wrote: Hm, was just on the phone to a friend talking about when this would get posted on here...Pinky are you on this list? lol! As if parents need more pressure to sleep and have children that should be sleeping through. Too much focus goes on how many hours a baby sleeps or if they are a good sleeper and not enough focus goes into parenting and night time parenting. Parenting is a 24hour a day 7 day a week job. I can't believe, that people believe, that a three month old should be able to put herself back to sleep?? What about the studies showing that babies still get at least 25% of their nutrition at night time if they need it? What about their tiny tummies? What about the emotional and physical impacts on the child? What about the fact that we know so much more about the psychological effects that the Tresillian method has on the child?? What about the fact that this child has had her whole life rearranged and needs her mummy and daddy to nurture and care for her not take her to a strange place and have strangers `care` for her. I don't believe that Tresillian teaches how to understand the perspective of the infants, how can they when they use 85 year old ideas that can cause psychological damage to such a young child. Their formula is not sleep-inducing it is `shut down for survival` inducing. It erks me that newspapers print such propaganda. Abby http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Thanks-baby-whisperers-now-we-can-all-sleep/2004/12/12/1102786955922.html This should be of interest to you...
Re: [ozmidwifery] AAIMHI Policy Paper on Controlled Crying
Hi Abby Just saw the email with the Australian Association for Infant Mental Health position paper, and one sentence jumped right out at me! The references below are not specifically to studies on the impact of controlled crying on infants because there are no records of such studies. Until more evidence is found from studies I do not feel any definitive decision could be made from that paper alone. Katrina :-) On 13/12/2004, at 9:45 PM, Abby and Toby wrote: Hi, Thought I would post a link to this for anyone that may not have seen it. The policy certainly challenges much of the popular thinking about sleep training and such. http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
ooops I misread it too. However I do have who friends who are led to believe thei bubs should be sleeping through and neer waking up during the night from 2 months. Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: 02 42970115 m: 0418 220 638 f: 02 42970747 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs?
Hi Nicole, I'm not a Midwife, but my 3 year old , born at home, had a feed within an hour after birth and his next feed was something like 32 hours later. We were all fine about it, but we did discuss that had we been in hospital, it would have been managed. How do you make a baby feed that just wants to sleep? He then went on to breastfeed exclusively for 13 months, the little piggy. Sorry its not a policy, but one example of normal. good luck Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nicole Hmelnitsky Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 9:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: I hope someone has an answer to my question. I am a newly graduated Certified Midwife working in a large teaching hospital. I need to find out other policies regarding the number of breastfeeds required in the first 24 hours of a healthy term newborn. If a baby has not breastfed at delivery, some midwives will perform a heel prick test for a blood glucose level after 6 hours and some will try and give a comp feed of artificial formula. I dont believe in either. Some literature has said that a newborn will feed 3 times in the first 24 hours, and the some WHO literature says a newborn should feed 8 times in the first 24 hours. I really need to know if anyone has established a policy and guideline regarding this matter. Thanks, Nicole. This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Flinder's Grad ball
I would just like to say how inspiring, powerful and darn right amazing the new midwives from the grad program are! I went to the Flinders Uni Grad ball on Saturday and was overcome with pride for these amazing women! Despite the pressure, uncertainty and so forth, they are ready willing and very much able to go forth and support women birth beautifully! Go girls! Jo Bainbridge --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004
Re: [ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs?
Jo wrote: Often if the baby is mucusy (causing reluctance to feed) they will unfortunately likely be given a stomach washout... I thought that the mucous contained glucose and that was why the 'mucousy babies' didn't feel hungry. I would be happy to have this clarified if I am wrong. I don't know where the information came from, it is just in my head. MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs?
Really good advice Anne but almost ruined by the insulting manner in which it was delivered. You would be aware that many hospital policies are hospital management/paediatrician/fear driven and change comes about slowly. It is important we stay supportive of each other on this list, give words of encouragement and lead by example. Helen Cahill - Original Message -- From: Anne Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs? Dear All, Regarding a (healthy, full term) baby feeding in the first 24 hrs. If the babe has had a feed soon after birth we do not worry for at least 12+ hrs. NEVER EVER take a BSL unless baby is symptomatic. This has never occurred though. If babe has not had a feed soon after birth we express mum and give via cup or syringe a couple of hours or so after birth. If babe is hungry and has not attached or whatever after the 12 hrs we show mum how to express and give via cup or syringe approximately 3-4 hrly until the baby attaches more often if the baby wants to feed more often of course. We send our mum's home with this plus we ring them at home or if they have any queries they can call us (with a backup to a LC of course or our breastfeeding clinic staffed by an LC) lots of skin to skin, babe near the breast all the time so not to miss an 'opportunity' to have a feed and it seems to work beautifully. You cruel lot doing a BSL - stop it!! The WHO recommendations say it is not necessary on a well, full term baby unless symptomatic. Babies do not become symptomatic if they feed regularly and if necessary by EBM, they will always swallow even if they won't suck. It is suprising how many 'wake up' and feed with a few mouthfuls of EBM. Anne Clarke Brisbane -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1.946 (20041213) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.nod32.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs?
Hi Mary and fellow ozmidders, Often C/section babies are 'mucousy' and reluctant to feed, however I have never seen a low PGL on a 'mucousy' baby. Cheers, Sadie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Feeds in 24 hrs
Dear Helen, Interesting comment on the following of hospital policies - when I re-read the email the policies seem to be dependent on 'who the Midwife was on duty'. What about changing policy that is invasive, unnecessary and dear I say - not based on good evidence - there's that clichedstatement again. It's always easy to hide behind policy, good and not so good rather than fight to change an outdated and unnecessary procedureon these babies and making mothers feel more and more inadequate. If there isa policy that is 'slow to change' why aren't we telling the women what is best practice, what studies are out there, and so onand then let the mother decide, as I remember being one of our directives from our Code of Practice. In a court of law stating that you followed policy is not a defence if it is not based on good evidence and best practice. Yes Helen I agree to support colleagues, their right of comment and I would hope you would support my right to comment too. Anne Clarke Brisbane
Re: [ozmidwifery] Glucose Challenge Testing
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Glucose Challenge Testing Hi Abby You should look at Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth by Enkin et al. The evidence based bible and available in full on line at www.maternitywise.org The 2nd Ed slammed the need for GTT at all. I think they were a little softer in the 3rd ed. Check it out Kind regards Justine
[ozmidwifery] Glucose Challenge Testing
Hi, Couple of questions about this- 1) Is this application normal or necessary, the fasting for so long I mean - "My midwife wants me to have a glucose challenge test that involves 12 hours fasting then a blood test, drinking a sugary drink, 1hr later another blood test, drinking another drink and then another hour later another blood test." I have never heard of someonehaving to fast for that long beforehand?? Seems like a strange thing to ask a pregnant woman to do. Any insight would be great. 2) Does anyone have any info, links, research etc about the accuracy, relevance/importance, evidence etc for the glucose test? Thanksin advance. Love Abby (P.S. Still working on the `evidence` aboutcontrolled crying, nutrition etc)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Glucose Challenge Testing
Check out the following link for the relevant chapter from A Guide to Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth http://www.maternitywise.org/pdfs/gecpc3ch11.pdf the entire book can be accessed via http://www.maternitywise.org/guide/ Cheers, David - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Glucose Challenge Testing Hi, Couple of questions about this- 1) Is this application normal or necessary, the fasting for so long I mean - "My midwife wants me to have a glucose challenge test that involves 12 hours fasting then a blood test, drinking a sugary drink, 1hr later another blood test, drinking another drink and then another hour later another blood test." I have never heard of someonehaving to fast for that long beforehand?? Seems like a strange thing to ask a pregnant woman to do. Any insight would be great. 2) Does anyone have any info, links, research etc about the accuracy, relevance/importance, evidence etc for the glucose test? Thanksin advance. Love Abby (P.S. Still working on the `evidence` aboutcontrolled crying, nutrition etc)
[no subject]
I hope someone has an answer to my question. I am a newly graduated Certified Midwife working in a large teaching hospital. I need to find out other policies regarding the number of breastfeeds required in the first 24 hours of a healthy term newborn. If a baby has not breastfed at delivery, some midwives will perform a heel prick test for a blood glucose level after 6 hours and some will try and give a comp feed of artificial formula. I dont believe in either. Some literature has said that a newborn will feed 3 times in the first 24 hours, and the some WHO literature says a newborn should feed 8 times in the first 24 hours. I really need to know if anyone has established a policy and guideline regarding this matter. Thanks, Nicole.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Baby whisperers...
This is a really scary story. For parents to think that a 3-month-old should be able to put themselves back to sleep! It does make me laugh that the journalist thinks Tresilian's 85-year-old practice should be highlighted. What happened to keeping up with the latest research? Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: 02 42970115 m: 0418 220 638 f: 02 42970747 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Evidence based care for normal birth
I have been approached By Denis Walsh, an Australian midwife who has been living and working in the UK for the last 20 years. He has just completed hi PhD on Birth Centres and is well known for his writing etc. His two day program on Evidence Based Care is very popular in the UK and he presented it in Melbourne and Brisbane on a previous trip. Denis is here until November next year and would like to present some further programs, while he continues his work for his UK University (writing etc). A series of workshops had been planned for most States, but the organiser has suddenly let him down and he has asked me if Birth International could help him. Having worked with Denis several times in the UK, I am naturally keen to help him out in the circumstance. If anyone is interested in having one of these events in their area, could they get in touch with me? We'll do the organising and advertising, but I need to gauge where the interest lies. We'll be offering some incentives to local organisers as well (free places in return for a venue and some other local support). I need to get these dates into our calendar very quickly, so that we can include the details in our next catalogue, which is due out at the end of January. Please either send a message to the list, or email me off line and we can talk more about the possibilities. These are programs that are well proven, motivating, exciting and useful who wants one in their area? Regards, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs?
Our policy is to attempt first feed within 1 hour of birth. If unsuccessful, attempt 3 hours later (max). If not EBM is obtained for the baby within 6 hours, then a BSL is done. If this is fine (2.2 or above) then the baby can be left another 3 hours. A baby left much past this would probably be refered to the paed (eek!) and would probably end up in the SCN tube fed, depending on the midwife... ;) But as long as the BSLs are ok 3 hourly, the baby is left according to policy. Often if the baby is mucusy (causing reluctance to feed) they will unfortunately likely be given a stomach washout...again depending on the midwife. The policy isn't as bad as I've seen at other places... it's pretty baby friendly compared to others. Jo (the new Mrs. Watson!) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Flinder's Grad ball
I agree Jo. It was a great night. It wasgreat to see such a wide age bracket in the graduates and such energy and enthusiasm. The women of SA are in good hands. Jackie - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Flinder's Grad ball I would just like to say how inspiring, powerful and darn right amazing the new midwives from the grad program are! I went to the Flinders Uni Grad ball on Saturday and was overcome with pride for these amazing women! Despite the pressure, uncertainty and so forth, they are ready willing and very much able to go forth and support women birth beautifully! Go girls! Jo Bainbridge ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 12/5/2004
[ozmidwifery] feeds in 24 hrs?
Dear All, Regarding a (healthy, full term) baby feeding in the first 24 hrs. If the babe has had a feed soon after birth we do not worry for at least 12+ hrs. NEVER EVER take a BSL unless baby is symptomatic. This has never occurred though. If babe has not had a feed soon after birth we express mum and give via cup or syringe a couple of hours or so after birth. If babe is hungry and has not attached or whatever after the 12 hrs we show mum how to express and give via cup or syringe approximately 3-4 hrly until the baby attaches more often if the baby wants to feed more often of course. We send our mum's home with this plus we ring them at home or if they have any queries they can call us (with a backup to a LC of course or our breastfeeding clinic staffed by an LC) lots of skin to skin, babe near the breast all the time so not to miss an 'opportunity' to have a feed and it seems to work beautifully. You cruel lot doing a BSL - stop it!! The WHO recommendations say it is not necessary on a well, full term baby unless symptomatic. Babies do not become symptomatic if they feed regularly and if necessary by EBM, they will always swallow even if they won't suck. It is suprising how many 'wake up' and feed with a few mouthfuls of EBM. Anne Clarke Brisbane -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
