RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Robyn Thompson]

Title: Message









Many
women in my database have had failed vacuum, failed forceps and LUSCS.  How many women and
their babies are we causing damage.  Interesting to say the least that
natural birth (especially at home) is so micro scrutinised – who is scrutinising
this type of damage?  Why is it not published?  Are midwives and mothers documenting
and passing this information on to someone who cares?  I would love to see
the Video Gloria, happy to pay for the copy also.  Can it be copied to a
DVD? Collectively we need to talk about, document and show the evidence of such
trauma from this point onwards.   

 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria Lemay
Sent: Monday, 1
 August 2005 8:31 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

 



I have a video of a 20/20 segment from here in N. America
which shows two severely injured babies after a ventouse extraction.  The
pediatrician on the film talks about how subgaleal hemmorhages can cause the
infant to lose his/her entire blood volume.  One of the baby girls in
the film required extensive surgery in her first year of life and the other
died from the trauma.  The one who lived was presenting by the brow and
the ventouse was applied over the front fontanelle.  She looked like
someone had hit her with a baseball bat---black eyes and huge swelling on the
forehead.  It's quite astounding that babies actually can take that kind
of punishment and live.  I'd love to send it to Australia---do you have
players for VHS??   They were very critical in the film of drs
applying it for longer than 30 minutes.





 





Of course, one of the deadly things about both forceps and
ventouse is the greatly increased risk of shoulder dystocia and all it's
trauma.  It's one thing to bring that unwilling head out that has not
properly molded but then, the fundus doesn't have a chance to firm up and
piston the rest of the baby out.  Personally, I'd go for a cesarean before
I'd allow these implements on my child's head.  Not that that's any
guarantee, because the ventouse and forceps are often used to help get babe's
head out during surgery.





Gloria







- Original Message - 





From: Robyn
Thompson 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:59 AM





Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information





 



Babies are affected by Ventousse and
Forceps.  Many babies in my years of breastfeeding data are unable to feed
properly for up to 7 days due to trauma around the tempro-mandibular joint. If
you watch carefully the baby is tentative, the pain is obvious as he/she avoids
stretching the joint to allow the mandible to move downwards. They reduce the
movement to protect themselves from the pain of extension.  It is hard to
imagine the pressure on their tiny little heads, the soft tissue bruising and
extensive oedema.  They often have difficulty breastfeeding and because of
the ‘magic’ 10% weight loss, many are teat fed.  These little
babies often need very gentle finger feeding with a periodontal syringe for the
first 5 to 7 days to encourage gentle joint movement by the small ‘let
down’ from the long tapered tip of the syringe which flows gently over
the back of the tongue creating the swallow reflex.  In cases where these
little babies are offered a teat it should be long and soft, definitely
not teats attached to those narrow disposable hospital bottles, nor anything
like the ridiculous Avent style wide neck teat with short nipple. Very gentle
coaxing to move the joint with small amounts of milk at a time until the joint,
soft tissue, muscles, ligaments and never endings recover. If cup feeding is
used then small amounts gently given so the baby can cope with the flow when
trying to co-ordinate the use of the painful tempro-mandibular joint. 

 

Robyn

 

  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Sunday,
 31 July 2005 12:00 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

 



One of the presentations at ICM was about
ventouse. There are known side effects. Minor ones include caput succanadeum
which is swelling of the scalp and cephal haematoma which is bruising between
the skull bone and its membrane covering. The major one was a sub apponeuretic
haemorrhage which I think is inside the skull and so the bleeding is less
limited because there is more space, and the baby can lose quite a bit of
blood. It can also cause pressure on the brain. The midwife suggested that
hourly head circumferences after a ventouse might pick these up early. However,
they are very rare. The higher the baby when the ventouse is applied, and the
longer the time it is applied seems to be important. The pressure should not be
on continuously for more than ten minutes, and the obstetrician should not use
it for more than 2-3 contractions. I

[ozmidwifery] Fw: [UCbirthnews] Unassisted Childbirth on the Discovery Health Channel

[Janet Fraser]

Given our recent discussions 
about this brilliant dvd, I thought it might interest people to see 
this.
Best,
J
 
 
Dear Friends,
Mindy Goorchenko and her family will be appearing in an episode of "Amazing 
Babies" this Tues., Aug. 2nd at 8pm and 11pm Eastern Daylight Time on the 
Discovery Health Channel (see web site for additional dates and times - http://health.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=2&cpi=111205&gid=0 ).  

 
As some of you know, Mindy is the woman who delivered her own twins 
unassisted while her husband tended to their two-year-old, and calmly 
captured the event on video.  The result (other than two beautiful 
babies!) was the inspiring DVD "Psalm and Zoya: The Unassisted Homebirth of Our 
Twins" - http://unassistedbirth.com/bookshop/videos/bv2_psalm_zoya.html
 
Mindy said the production crew was very nice.  However, be prepared 
for the usual dramatics those of us who have watched these shows have come to 
expect.  The description of the episode on Discovery's web site 
reads as follows: 
 
"A plan for homebirth with a midwife goes terribly wrong when the pregnant 
mom has to deliver her twins on her own; and one of the babies is a breech 
birth."  
 
While it's true that Mindy had planned to have midwives at the birth, 
anyone who has seen the DVD knows that she was not the least bit worried when 
they didn't make it in time.  In fact, she was fully prepared to give birth 
alone and had planned for an unassisted birth throughout much of her 
pregnancy.  As she wrote in her birth story:
 

"Since we had conceived our babies naturally, we had no reason to think we 
couldn't give birth to them naturally as well.  We started looking for a 
midwife.  This was easier said than done.  
We interviewed several yet none quite meshed with how we wanted this experience 
to be.  Rather than trusting in the process, most of the midwives had fear 
about the birth of the second twin and I did not feel comfortable having that 
attitude around me during birth.  We decided to simply go it alone.  I 
had always wanted an unassisted home birth...I just didn't think it would be 
with twins!  My husband trusted me to make that decision and felt 
comfortable being the only 'attendant' at the birth.  I knew in my heart, 
soul, and bones that these babies needed to be born at home into the safest 
environment possible and that the birth would go well."
 
Once again, I am somewhat disappointed (but not 
surprised) that the production company chose to put a dangerous 
spin on the birth - at least on their web site.  Let's hope Mindy's 
optimism, enthusiasm and confidence comes through in the actual 
episode.
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Janet Fraser]

MessageThank you so much, everyone! I'm feeling very well informed now : )
J
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RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Robyn Thompson]

Title: Message









2nd
last line meant to read “nerve endings” (not never as I had incorrectly typed)

 

 

-Original Message-
From: owner-ozmid[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmid[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robyn Thompson
Sent: Sunday,
 31 July 2005 7:00 PM
To: ozmid[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

 

Babies are affected by Ventousse and
Forceps.  Many babies in my years of breastfeeding data are unable to feed
properly for up to 7 days due to trauma around the tempro-mandibular joint. If
you watch carefully the baby is tentative, the pain is obvious as he/she avoids
stretching the joint to allow the mandible to move downwards. They reduce the
movement to protect themselves from the pain of extension.  It is hard to
imagine the pressure on their tiny little heads, the soft tissue bruising and
extensive oedema.  They often have difficulty breastfeeding and because of
the ‘magic’ 10% weight loss, many are teat fed.  These little
babies often need very gentle finger feeding with a periodontal syringe for the
first 5 to 7 days to encourage gentle joint movement by the small ‘let
down’ from the long tapered tip of the syringe which flows gently over
the back of the tongue creating the swallow reflex.  In cases where these
little babies are offered a teat it should be long and soft, definitely
not teats attached to those narrow disposable hospital bottles, nor anything
like the ridiculous Avent style wide neck teat with short nipple. Very gentle
coaxing to move the joint with small amounts of milk at a time until the joint,
soft tissue, muscles, ligaments and nerve
endings recover. If cup feeding is used then small amounts gently given so the
baby can cope with the flow when trying to co-ordinate the use of the painful
tempro-mandibular joint. 

 

Robyn

 

  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2005 12:00 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

 



One of the presentations at ICM was about
ventouse. There are known side effects. Minor ones include caput succanadeum
which is swelling of the scalp and cephal haematoma which is bruising between
the skull bone and its membrane covering. The major one was a sub apponeuretic
haemorrhage which I think is inside the skull and so the bleeding is less
limited because there is more space, and the baby can lose quite a bit of
blood. It can also cause pressure on the brain. The midwife suggested that hourly
head circumferences after a ventouse might pick these up early. However, they
are very rare. The higher the baby when the ventouse is applied, and the longer
the time it is applied seems to be important. The pressure should not be on
continuously for more than ten minutes, and the obstetrician should not use it
for more than 2-3 contractions. I have had a quick look through the program,
but can't find the midwife's name. She also mentioned an australian doctor who
has a website with a lot of info about ventouse. I will check my notes and get
back to you. Just going out for a bike ride with the family.





Nicole.





-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Megan &
Larry
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:37 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

An Osteopath may have some info on it, maybe
try through the association, or a local practitioner ?

It is probably another of those practices (ventouse)
that hasn't been looked into beyond 'saving' babies lives in the birth process.
I would think its Osteos and the like that know more about long term impacts.

 

Megan

 











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2005 10:45 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information



They don't have anything on how it might
affect a baby.





No one does.





J







- Original Message - 





From: Dean
& Jo 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:34 AM





Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information





 





have you tried maternity wise?





jo





-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:16 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information



Hi all,





can anyone direct me to online resources
on the use and risks of ventouse? I have the info from ACE but that's about it
really.





Best,





J





Joyous Birth 
Home Birth Forum - a world first!
http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/





 





Accessing Artemis 
Birth Trauma Recovery
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis



 

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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[ozmidwifery] PNMM

[Jenny Cameron]

Hello All
 
Perinatal mortality & morbidity meeting are for midwives, GP's & 
Obs. These meetings are an important risk management tool to identify practice 
issues. They should be conducted in the 'no fault' manner. The information 
shared in the meetings is protected by a section of law giving protection 
from FOI. Between section 32 and 47 in FOI Act are the exemptions to the Act. 
All healthcare institutions should have a process in place for review of 
practice and protection of the information disclosed in the meetings. Midwives 
should not be excluded from these meetings. Cheers and I'm still hearing those 
lovely tones of the Bittersweet symphony!!
 
Jenny
Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACMPO Box 1465Howard Springs NT 0835
 
0419 528 717

Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Gloria Lemay]

Title: Message



I have a video of a 20/20 segment from here in N. 
America which shows two severely injured babies after a ventouse 
extraction.  The pediatrician on the film talks about how subgaleal 
hemmorhages can cause the infant to lose his/her entire blood volume.  
One of the baby girls in the film required extensive surgery in her first year 
of life and the other died from the trauma.  The one who lived was 
presenting by the brow and the ventouse was applied over the front 
fontanelle.  She looked like someone had hit her with a baseball 
bat---black eyes and huge swelling on the forehead.  It's quite astounding 
that babies actually can take that kind of punishment and live.  I'd love 
to send it to Australia---do you have players for VHS??   They were 
very critical in the film of drs applying it for longer than 30 
minutes.
 
Of course, one of the deadly things about both 
forceps and ventouse is the greatly increased risk of shoulder dystocia and all 
it's trauma.  It's one thing to bring that unwilling head out that has not 
properly molded but then, the fundus doesn't have a chance to firm up and piston 
the rest of the baby out.  Personally, I'd go for a cesarean before I'd 
allow these implements on my child's head.  Not that that's any guarantee, 
because the ventouse and forceps are often used to help get babe's head out 
during surgery.
Gloria

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Robyn 
  Thompson 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:59 AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
  information
  
  
  Babies are affected 
  by Ventousse and Forceps.  Many babies in my years of breastfeeding data 
  are unable to feed properly for up to 7 days due to trauma around the 
  tempro-mandibular joint. If you watch 
  carefully the baby is tentative, the pain is obvious as he/she avoids 
  stretching the joint to allow the 
  mandible to move downwards. They reduce the movement to protect themselves 
  from the pain of extension.  It is hard to imagine the pressure on their 
  tiny little heads, the soft tissue 
  bruising and extensive oedema.  They often have difficulty breastfeeding 
  and because of the ‘magic’ 10% weight loss, many are teat fed.  These 
  little babies often need very gentle finger feeding with a periodontal syringe 
  for the first 5 to 7 days to encourage gentle joint movement by the 
  small ‘let down’ from the long tapered tip of the syringe which flows gently 
  over the back of the tongue creating the swallow reflex.  In cases where 
  these little babies are offered a teat it should be long and soft, 
  definitely not teats attached to those narrow disposable hospital bottles, nor 
  anything like the ridiculous Avent style wide neck teat with short nipple. 
  Very gentle coaxing to move the joint with small 
  amounts of milk at a time until the joint, soft tissue, 
  muscles, ligaments and never endings recover. If cup feeding is used then 
  small amounts gently given so the baby can cope with the flow when trying to 
  co-ordinate the use of the painful tempro-mandibular joint. 
   
  Robyn
   
    
  -Original 
  Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole 
  CarverSent: Sunday, 31 July 2005 12:00 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
  information
   
  
  One of the 
  presentations at ICM was about ventouse. There are known side effects. Minor 
  ones include caput succanadeum which is swelling of the scalp and cephal 
  haematoma which is bruising between the skull bone and its membrane covering. 
  The major one was a sub apponeuretic haemorrhage which I think is inside the 
  skull and so the bleeding is less limited because there is more space, and the 
  baby can lose quite a bit of blood. It can also cause pressure on the brain. 
  The midwife suggested that hourly head circumferences after a ventouse might 
  pick these up early. However, they are very rare. The higher the baby when the 
  ventouse is applied, and the longer the time it is applied seems to be 
  important. The pressure should not be on continuously for more than ten 
  minutes, and the obstetrician should not use it for more than 2-3 
  contractions. I have had a quick look through the program, but can't find the 
  midwife's name. She also mentioned an australian doctor who has a website with 
  a lot of info about ventouse. I will check my notes and get back to you. Just 
  going out for a bike ride with the family.
  
  Nicole.
  
-Original 
Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Megan & 
LarrySent: Sunday, July 31, 
2005 11:37 AMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
information
An Osteopath 
may have some info on it, maybe try through the association, or a local 
practitioner ?
It is probably 
another of those practices (ventouse) tha

RE: [ozmidwifery] vacuum extraction

[Nicole Carver]

I have just tested the link. It doesn't work! However, if you type vacuum
extraction in the search box you will get to the info.
Cheers,
Nicole.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:10 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] vacuum extraction



 I have found the paper about vacuum extraction on the CD from the ICM
conference. I have attached the link to a website mentioned by Annie Clark
in her presentation.
When I read my notes I realised that I did not mention lacerations, although
these are more common from metal cups, which are used less frequently these
days. Also figures for intracranial haemorrhage are higher with vacuum
extraction versus normal birth 1:860 for vac ext and 1:1900 for normal
birth.
Figures were not given for subaponeurotic haemorrhage but mortality was
stated as 1:4 if it does occur. Most likely to happen if the cup is applied
over the anterior fontanelle.
I also read of two cases of fatal maternal haemorrhage where the cup was
applied before full dilation (bleeding from the cervix).
Vacuum extraction causes less trauma to maternal tissues however. See the
website for more info.
Nicole.

http://www.obgmanagement.com/content/obg_featurexml.asp?file=2002/04/obg_040
2_00088.xml


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This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

[ozmidwifery] vacuum extraction

[Nicole Carver]

 I have found the paper about vacuum extraction on the CD from the ICM
conference. I have attached the link to a website mentioned by Annie Clark
in her presentation.
When I read my notes I realised that I did not mention lacerations, although
these are more common from metal cups, which are used less frequently these
days. Also figures for intracranial haemorrhage are higher with vacuum
extraction versus normal birth 1:860 for vac ext and 1:1900 for normal
birth.
Figures were not given for subaponeurotic haemorrhage but mortality was
stated as 1:4 if it does occur. Most likely to happen if the cup is applied
over the anterior fontanelle.
I also read of two cases of fatal maternal haemorrhage where the cup was
applied before full dilation (bleeding from the cervix).
Vacuum extraction causes less trauma to maternal tissues however. See the
website for more info.
Nicole.

http://www.obgmanagement.com/content/obg_featurexml.asp?file=2002/04/obg_040
2_00088.xml


OBGManagement.com.url
Description: Binary data

RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Robyn Thompson]

Title: Message









Babies
are affected by Ventousse and Forceps.  Many babies in my years of
breastfeeding data are unable to feed properly for up to 7 days due to trauma around
the tempro-mandibular joint. If you watch carefully the baby is tentative, the pain is
obvious as he/she avoids stretching the joint to allow the mandible to move downwards. They
reduce the movement to protect themselves from the pain of extension.  It
is hard to imagine the pressure on their tiny little heads, the soft tissue bruising
and extensive oedema.  They often have difficulty breastfeeding and because
of the ‘magic’ 10% weight loss, many are teat fed.  These
little babies often need very gentle finger feeding with a periodontal syringe for
the first 5 to 7 days to encourage gentle joint movement by the small ‘let down’
from the long tapered tip of the syringe which flows gently over the back of
the tongue creating the swallow reflex.  In cases where these little
babies are offered a teat it should be long and soft, definitely not teats
attached to those narrow disposable hospital bottles, nor anything like the ridiculous
Avent style wide neck teat with short nipple. Very gentle coaxing to move the joint with small amounts of
milk at a time until the joint, soft tissue, muscles, ligaments and never endings recover. If
cup feeding is used then small amounts gently given so the baby can cope with
the flow when trying to co-ordinate the use of the painful tempro-mandibular joint. 

 

Robyn

 

  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Sunday,
 31 July 2005 12:00 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

 



One of the presentations at ICM was about
ventouse. There are known side effects. Minor ones include caput succanadeum
which is swelling of the scalp and cephal haematoma which is bruising between
the skull bone and its membrane covering. The major one was a sub apponeuretic
haemorrhage which I think is inside the skull and so the bleeding is less
limited because there is more space, and the baby can lose quite a bit of
blood. It can also cause pressure on the brain. The midwife suggested that
hourly head circumferences after a ventouse might pick these up early. However,
they are very rare. The higher the baby when the ventouse is applied, and the
longer the time it is applied seems to be important. The pressure should not be
on continuously for more than ten minutes, and the obstetrician should not use
it for more than 2-3 contractions. I have had a quick look through the program,
but can't find the midwife's name. She also mentioned an australian doctor who
has a website with a lot of info about ventouse. I will check my notes and get
back to you. Just going out for a bike ride with the family.





Nicole.





-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Megan &
Larry
Sent: Sunday,
 July 31, 2005 11:37 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

An Osteopath may have some info on it, maybe
try through the association, or a local practitioner ?

It is probably another of those practices
(ventouse) that hasn't been looked into beyond 'saving' babies lives in the
birth process. I would think its Osteos and the like that know more about long
term impacts.

 

Megan

 







From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Sunday,
 31 July 2005 10:45 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information



They don't have anything on how it might
affect a baby.





No one does.





J







- Original Message - 





From: Dean
& Jo 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Sunday, July
 31, 2005 8:34 AM





Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information





 





have you tried maternity wise?





jo





-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Saturday,
 July 30, 2005 10:16 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information



Hi all,





can anyone direct me to online resources
on the use and risks of ventouse? I have the info from ACE but that's about it
really.





Best,





J





Joyous Birth 
Home Birth Forum - a world first!
http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/





 





Accessing Artemis 
Birth Trauma Recovery
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis



 

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005



 

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005

Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[Janet Fraser]

Title: Message



Thanks, Brenda. Diseases 
Database was the best so far in depth and discussion including a bit of a rave 
on what informed consent really is! 
 
Thanks for all the 
suggestions, everyone. I think I've got all that's possible apart from the ICM 
stuff : )
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  brendamanning 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 7:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
  information
  
  Janet,
   
  Better than forceps.
  How about :
  www.gpnotebook.co.uk
  fairly comprehensive.
  Or:
  www.juniormagazine.co.uk
  Or:
  www.diseasesdatabase.com
   
   
  Any good?
   
  Brenda M
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Janet 
Fraser 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:15 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
information

They don't have anything 
on how it might affect a baby.
No one does.
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean & Jo 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:34 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
  information
  
  have you tried maternity wise?
  jo
  

-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
FraserSent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:16 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
[ozmidwifery] ventouse information
Hi all,
can anyone direct me 
to online resources on the use and risks of ventouse? I have the info 
from ACE but that's about it really.
Best,
J
Joyous Birth Home 
Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
 
Accessing Artemis 
Birth Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis
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message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus 
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  7/25/2005
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Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse information

[brendamanning]

Title: Message



Janet,
 
Better than forceps.
How about :
www.gpnotebook.co.uk
fairly comprehensive.
Or:
www.juniormagazine.co.uk
Or:
www.diseasesdatabase.com
 
 
Any good?
 
Brenda M
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Janet 
  Fraser 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:15 
AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
  information
  
  They don't have anything on 
  how it might affect a baby.
  No one does.
  J
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean 
& Jo 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:34 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ventouse 
information

have you tried maternity wise?
jo

  
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet 
  FraserSent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:16 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
  [ozmidwifery] ventouse information
  Hi all,
  can anyone direct me to 
  online resources on the use and risks of ventouse? I have the info from 
  ACE but that's about it really.
  Best,
  J
  Joyous Birth Home 
  Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
   
  Accessing Artemis 
  Birth Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis
  --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked 
  by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - 
  Release Date: 7/25/2005
--No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by 
AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release 
Date: 7/25/2005