Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?

[Janet Fraser]

And in case you're interested, 
this is the c-sec part of my birth plan.
 

Transfer plan - caesarean
•Epidural anaesthesia will be 
used. There will be no pre-operative medications, especially sedative drugs, and 
no sedatives after birth either. A general anaesthetic is a last resort and the 
parents must consent in full prior to administration.
•The father and support person 
will remain with the mother at all times
•The mother will hold the baby 
while the incision is being closed and has the assistance of the father if 
required. One arm must be left free.
*A double layer closure is 
required.
•A lotus birth is required. We 
can explain this to any staff who are curious but it is not optional for us. We 
will supply the bag to contain the placenta with us once out of theatre. In 
theatre an appropriately sized dish is fine.
•The baby will be placed straight 
on the mother’s skin, unwashed. A blanket can go over both of them. Apgar and 
well baby checks will only be done by observation while the baby is on the 
mother.
•No one will announce the baby’s 
sex.
•There will be no unnecessary 
speaking, this is a birth for us, not an everyday working event.
•There will be no period in the 
nursery. Rooming in will be immediate and continuous. Parents and baby will be 
in the recovery room after delivery. 
•There will be no separation of 
mother and baby unless one or other is genuinely seriously ill or 
unconscious.
•If the mother is ill the baby 
will be carried in kangaroo care style by the father only. There will be no use 
of plastic boxes with wheels.
•The baby will not receive 
Vitamin K or Hepatitis B injections.
 
In the event our baby is unwell: 

•Any procedures must be explained 
in full and informed, written consent must be obtained before any intervention 
is performed. 
•A parent will remain with the 
baby at all times - no exceptions. 
•The baby will only be fed breast 
milk. Absolutely no formula feeding or dummy without our written consent. We 
will use a donor for EBM if none is available and our baby requires more than 
colostrum until my milk comes in. 
•Even if our baby is premature, 
there will be no period in the nursery. Rooming in will be immediate and 
continuous unless there is a genuine problem with the baby and informed, written 
consent is obtained from the parents for treatment of the baby. 
•Kangaroo care and as much skin 
to skin contact with parents as possible while our baby is 
unwell.

RE: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans?

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

I understand what you are saying
completely and agree completely, in an ideal world that would happen. So how do
we change attitude towards birth plans in hospitals? 

 



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Friday, 23 June 2006 10:54
AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Your
thoughts onBirth Plans?



 



The
"problem" of birth plan seeming too hard to read at the time (yes,
also at a loss to understand this one) can also be solved by what I
suggest to women - that they have copies of the signed plan attached to
their record. So as soon as that woman rings the institution, the complete
stranger who has to care for her can pull out her record and read her
birth plan. It's just not that hard! It's not like most women birth under 15
mins after arrival so fitting in 5-10 mins of reading to ensure that the client
is serviced and supported in the way she most wants doesn't seem a big ask.
Ideally, CPs will know the woman and know the plan already but we know how
difficult it is to implement caseload midwifery so reading the birth plan is
going to have to suffice : )





J







- Original Message - 





From: Stephen &
Felicity 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Friday, June 23,
2006 10:44 AM





Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
Your thoughts onBirth Plans?





 





I believe that seemingly small
things, like softening the term "birthplan" into
something along the lines of birth "preferences",
etc, further undermines and weakens the power a woman has to demand what she wants for her care, and firmly expect
to receive it. "Preferences" denotes a level of being ok with someone
delivering less than your "preferred" care - it's
"preferred", but not "compulsory".  Women are already in
an extremely vulnerable and disempowered position in a Hospital
environment.  Let's not increase that by encouraging a lack of strength in
the way they describe what they want.  It shouldn't have to be about
pleasing the staff or making them feel warm and fuzzy in order for the woman to
receive the care she deserves and wants.  If things deviate from the
birthplan (with the birthing woman's genuine consent), it's not about blame or
retribution.  We just want our care to match our needs.  Simple, and
not too much to ask.






I don't understand the complaint about birthplans being "too
long", either.  Unless they're a 20 page War and Peace epic (and I've
never seen one exceed 4 - 5 pages), it's quite simply NOT THAT HARD to
flick through, locate the relevant point, and do your best to adhere to
it.  There's far bulkier Hospy paperwork whipped out and leafed
through during birth.  Most "long" (4 - 5 page) BPs are
divided into specific sections which make it even easier to spot the precise
area you're looking for at the time.  I don't see taking one or two
minutes to check a woman's BP to be too much to ask.  In an extreme
emergency situation, the CP should be thoroughly well versed with the BP
anyway; so they should have a fairly good idea of what is desired, even in the
heat of the moment.  The birthing woman will hopefully also have support
people there who can assist in referencing the BP in any situation.  In
all reality it's usually the "well informed" women who write
"long" BPs so is the resentment of BPs we see sometimes in fact
a subtle dig at women daring to know their rights, their facts, and demand
nothing less? How can we be anything less than detailed about one of the most
specific and important moments of our lives that involves the wellbeing of
Mother, baby, and potentially the extended family and friends? It might
make things a little "harder" on the CP (though I REALLY don't see
how), but why should the birthing woman have to care, quite frankly?





 





Women aren't stupid. We know that if something in birth goes
haywire, and we hadn't expected it or thought about our desires in that
situation, then we go with what we
believe is best at the time (considering our careprovider's advice when
making our final decision). We understand birth is a fluid, changeable and
highly unique event, every time. We don't expect to be unable to change
our mind about something we included on our plan. We don't need to be coy about
asking for what we want; it's fairly obvious who that level of shillyshallying
suits - and it's not birthing women.





 





Imagine birthing women reading Hospy birth protocols and
complaining they were "too long", "too concrete", and
suggesting wording rehashing.  They'd be laughed out of town...but they're
the ones giving birth, and it's ok for US to question THEIR birth documents?





 







- Original Message - 





From: Janet
Fraser 





To: ozmidwifery@aceg

[ozmidwifery] The 24th HBA Conference and spaces for children

[Sally-Anne Brown]

Dear all
 
We sincerely appreciate the efforts everyone is 
making to attend the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference - now just one week 
away.
 
By way of clarification we have become aware that 
some delegates are bringing their children with them to the conference who have 
not advised us they are doing so.
 
As you can all appreciate - we have already had to 
move the conference once three weeks ago as the number of delegates booked to 
attend had more than doubled the numbers we had expected.  The only 
remaining available venue we could move to is the centre we have 
booked at the Mercure Hotel. It is not possible for us to move the venue again 
to cater for more delegates or children coming with delegates we were not 
advised of.
 
Please be aware we have clearly cited in our 
information pack to delegates the following points:
 
a) Breast - fed babies are warmly welcomed to 
attend the conference
 
b) We offerred childcare for delegates wishing to 
use this service and the childcare option is now FULLY BOOKED
 
c) There is an unfenced pool in one of the walkways 
between the function centre and the mercure hotel where all meal breaks and the 
conference expo will be held. The main foyer to the function centre leads 
directly onto the pool area and the doors will be closed but not locked.  
We do not have the staff to supervise children who may be coming and going from 
the funstion centre.  Full responsibility for children attending the 
conference must be taken by parents please as we absolutely snowed under in 
organising this eventand it is not reasonable to expect the handful of 
organisers to do this :)
 
We are now full booked at this venue and cannot 
offer childcare or a 'separate space' for children attending the 
conference.  Every seat in both venues for the program is taken by 
delegates, except of course breast -fed babies who are able to sit on a 
'lap'. Literally the only remaining space for children to sit is on the floor 
and it will not be possible to do this in front of the auditaurium as there 
is no room there - due to the live feed out we are doing for mums with unsettled 
bubs into the foyer and the audiovisual set up.
 
Please be aware the venue is a major 
hotel that has other guests staying - and is 
therefore essentially a public space - we do not have the staff or volunteers to 
either co-ordinate an off site additional childcare facility but for those 
delegates planning to attend with children we are not aware were coming to the 
event may want to consider organising this as another 
option. Some delegates have advised us they have a support person attending 
who is helping with childcare, primarily at the accommodation venue 
booked.  
 
We have made every effort to accommodate breast fed 
babies and children we have been advised of that are coming to the conference 
and have co-ordinated several parenting safe spaces to do this. We have aimed 
to honour the traditional philosophy of ensuring the venue is woman and 
baby and child friendly. Please be aware that if you are planning to bring a 
child to the conference we need to be advised of this asap if you have not 
already done so.
 
All information for delegates has been either 
emailed (or abt to be) as well as been available on the website at www.homebirthaustralia.org for 
your reference.  If I can be of further assistance please do not hesitate 
to contact me on 04319 46647 or by email. 
 
Please note you do not need to reconfirm a booking 
for childcare or advise us if you are bringing a breast fed baby if you have 
already advised us of this with your booking.
 
 
 
Warm Regards
 
 
Sally-Anne Brown
for the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference 
team
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 19/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans?

[Janet Fraser]

The "problem" of birth plan 
seeming too hard to read at the time (yes, also at a loss to understand this 
one) can also be solved by what I suggest to women - that they have 
copies of the signed plan attached to their record. So as soon as that woman 
rings the institution, the complete stranger who has to care for her can 
pull out her record and read her birth plan. It's just not that hard! It's not 
like most women birth under 15 mins after arrival so fitting in 5-10 mins of 
reading to ensure that the client is serviced and supported in the way she most 
wants doesn't seem a big ask. Ideally, CPs will know the woman and know the plan 
already but we know how difficult it is to implement caseload midwifery so 
reading the birth plan is going to have to suffice : )
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephen & 
  Felicity 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:44 
AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts 
  onBirth Plans?
  
  I believe that seemingly 
  small things, like softening the term "birthplan" into 
  something along the lines of birth "preferences", etc, further 
  undermines and weakens the power a woman has to demand what she wants for her care, and firmly expect to 
  receive it. "Preferences" denotes a level of being ok with someone delivering 
  less than your "preferred" care - it's "preferred", but not 
  "compulsory".  Women are already in an extremely vulnerable and 
  disempowered position in a Hospital environment.  Let's not increase that 
  by encouraging a lack of strength in the way they describe what they 
  want.  It shouldn't have to be about pleasing the staff or making them 
  feel warm and fuzzy in order for the woman to receive the care she deserves 
  and wants.  If things deviate from the birthplan (with the birthing 
  woman's genuine consent), it's not about blame or retribution.  We just 
  want our care to match our needs.  Simple, and not too much to 
  ask.
  I don't understand the complaint about 
  birthplans being "too long", either.  Unless they're a 20 page War and 
  Peace epic (and I've never seen one exceed 4 - 5 pages), it's quite 
  simply NOT THAT HARD to flick through, locate the relevant point, and do 
  your best to adhere to it.  There's far bulkier Hospy paperwork 
  whipped out and leafed through during birth.  Most "long" (4 - 5 
  page) BPs are divided into specific sections which make it even easier to spot 
  the precise area you're looking for at the time.  I don't see taking one 
  or two minutes to check a woman's BP to be too much to ask.  In an 
  extreme emergency situation, the CP should be thoroughly well versed with the 
  BP anyway; so they should have a fairly good idea of what is desired, even in 
  the heat of the moment.  The birthing woman will hopefully also have 
  support people there who can assist in referencing the BP in any 
  situation.  In all reality it's usually the "well informed" women 
  who write "long" BPs so is the resentment of BPs we see sometimes in fact 
  a subtle dig at women daring to know their rights, their facts, and demand 
  nothing less? How can we be anything less than detailed about one of the most 
  specific and important moments of our lives that involves the wellbeing of 
  Mother, baby, and potentially the extended family and friends? It might 
  make things a little "harder" on the CP (though I REALLY don't see how), but 
  why should the birthing woman have to care, quite frankly?
   
  Women aren't stupid. We know that if something in 
  birth goes haywire, and we hadn't expected it or thought about our desires in 
  that situation, then we go with what we believe is best at the time (considering 
  our careprovider's advice when making our final decision). We 
  understand birth is a fluid, changeable and highly unique event, every time. 
  We don't expect to be unable to change our mind about something we 
  included on our plan. We don't need to be coy about asking for what we want; 
  it's fairly obvious who that level of shillyshallying suits - and it's not 
  birthing women.
   
  Imagine birthing women reading Hospy birth 
  protocols and complaining they were "too long", "too concrete", and suggesting 
  wording rehashing.  They'd be laughed out of town...but they're the ones 
  giving birth, and it's ok for US to question THEIR birth 
  documents?
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Janet 
Fraser 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:04 
AM
Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: 
[ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans?

I always emphasise to 
women that one of the reasons they need a birth plan to birth in an 
institution is that the careprovider has one and their birth will run to it 
if they don't provide an alternative. Let's not kid ourselves that birth 
plans are respected though when even basic stuff like "Please do

[ozmidwifery] Urgent: First Time Mums of Newborn Needed (VIC)

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Dear all,

 

I have just been contacted by a current affairs program who
are looking for mums to appear on their show which is in an article about
Pinky's new book, Sleeping Like a Baby. They are after mums with babies up to
about 3 months of age, ideally younger, and perhaps have breastfeeding issues
they would like help on too. It's going to be "Supernanny" style
where Pinky comes into the home and helps the parents with the sleep and
feeding troubles. They are after first time mums only ASAP, who are new to
parenting and would like some help. So if you can do this, I need your details
asap - email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you can do it :)

Best
Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support

 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans?

[Stephen & Felicity]

I believe that seemingly small 
things, like softening the term "birthplan" into something along 
the lines of birth "preferences", etc, further undermines and weakens 
the power a woman has to demand what she 
wants for her care, and firmly expect to receive it. "Preferences" denotes a 
level of being ok with someone delivering less than your "preferred" care - it's 
"preferred", but not "compulsory".  Women are already in an 
extremely vulnerable and disempowered position in a Hospital 
environment.  Let's not increase that by encouraging a lack of strength in 
the way they describe what they want.  It shouldn't have to be about 
pleasing the staff or making them feel warm and fuzzy in order for the woman to 
receive the care she deserves and wants.  If things deviate from the 
birthplan (with the birthing woman's genuine consent), it's not about blame or 
retribution.  We just want our care to match our needs.  Simple, and 
not too much to ask.
I don't understand the complaint about 
birthplans being "too long", either.  Unless they're a 20 page War and 
Peace epic (and I've never seen one exceed 4 - 5 pages), it's quite 
simply NOT THAT HARD to flick through, locate the relevant point, and do 
your best to adhere to it.  There's far bulkier Hospy paperwork 
whipped out and leafed through during birth.  Most "long" (4 - 5 page) 
BPs are divided into specific sections which make it even easier to spot the 
precise area you're looking for at the time.  I don't see taking one or two 
minutes to check a woman's BP to be too much to ask.  In an extreme 
emergency situation, the CP should be thoroughly well versed with the BP anyway; 
so they should have a fairly good idea of what is desired, even in the heat of 
the moment.  The birthing woman will hopefully also have support people 
there who can assist in referencing the BP in any situation.  In all 
reality it's usually the "well informed" women who write "long" BPs so is 
the resentment of BPs we see sometimes in fact a subtle dig at women daring 
to know their rights, their facts, and demand nothing less? How can we be 
anything less than detailed about one of the most specific and important moments 
of our lives that involves the wellbeing of Mother, baby, and 
potentially the extended family and friends? It might make things a little 
"harder" on the CP (though I REALLY don't see how), but why should the birthing 
woman have to care, quite frankly?
 
Women aren't stupid. We know that if something in 
birth goes haywire, and we hadn't expected it or thought about our desires in 
that situation, then we go with what we 
believe is best at the time (considering our careprovider's advice when 
making our final decision). We understand birth is a fluid, changeable and 
highly unique event, every time. We don't expect to be unable to change our 
mind about something we included on our plan. We don't need to be coy about 
asking for what we want; it's fairly obvious who that level of shillyshallying 
suits - and it's not birthing women.
 
Imagine birthing women reading Hospy birth 
protocols and complaining they were "too long", "too concrete", and suggesting 
wording rehashing.  They'd be laughed out of town...but they're the ones 
giving birth, and it's ok for US to question THEIR birth documents?


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Janet 
  Fraser 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:04 
  AM
  Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts onBirth Plans?
  
  I always emphasise to women 
  that one of the reasons they need a birth plan to birth in an institution is 
  that the careprovider has one and their birth will run to it if they don't 
  provide an alternative. Let's not kid ourselves that birth plans are respected 
  though when even basic stuff like "Please don't offer me drugs I will ask if I 
  require pain relief" is ignored so frequently. Birth plans SHOULD be treated 
  with the same respect that living wills are accorded and until then they are 
  too often used as a way to pacify women and make them feel that their birth is 
  under their control when it isn't. I've heard from too many women who've had 
  birth plans laughed at and actually even ripped up in front of 
  them.
   
  I also recommend to women 
  that they take their birth plan to "important people" in the institution and 
  have it signed so that in labour there are no arguments about having aspects 
  of it implemented that are not usual - no drugs, physiological third stage, no 
  vit k or hep b etc. 
   
  It's worth considering the 
  argument in "Birthing from Within" that writing a birth plan indicates 
  mistrust of the CP. I don't agree necessarily although experience has shown 
  that institutions don't cope at all well in general with women having plans so 
  perhaps the argument has something to it. I know that home birth plans, for 
  example, look VERY different because women are able to 

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Katheryn Jettar]

Unfortunately, Andrea is in the UK at the present time and
won't be able to make the conference. I however, will be there in her
place and will make sure to bring lots of the same fleuro
stickers.
Make sure you come and visit us in the Terrace Ante room!
Cheers,
-
Katheryn Jettar
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth
Education
Ph: +61 2 9564 2322
Fx: +61 2 9564 2388
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit us at

www.birthinternational.com

At 10:05 AM 23/06/2006, you wrote:
At the ICM Andrea R gave us
stickers to waar on our name badges so we could recognise each
other.  Andrea are you coming to Geelong
Andrea Q
On 23/06/2006, at 12:09 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:
 
Should we wear red carnations
or something ?- would be great to put faces to names - I am going along
with a colleague and a soon-to-be-midwife friend.
Looking forward to it - sounds like a great conference
Sue


- Original Message -

From: Andrea
Quanchi

To:

ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au

Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:08 PM

Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold
!

yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwives

Andrea Q

On 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:

Are many Ozmidders going to the
conference?

Sue


- Original Message -

From: Sally-Anne
Brown

To:

ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au

Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM

Subject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold
!

Dear all

 

Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia
Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference
venue'.  We only have five tickets left and the program is now
complete and available for viewing on the website.  Please note we
do not do day only tickets.  There are only 20 spaces left for the
conference dinner which will be held on sat july1.  Registration
forms can be downloaded
at
www.homebirthaustralia.org

 

We will be convening a national press conference on the
issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing
services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria,
please stay tuned.  Women, babies, families, balloons and banners
warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at
12 noon.

 

We look forward to seeing you all there...

 

Warm Regards

 

Sally-Anne Brown

for the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team.

04319 466 47 




No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date:
21/06/2006





No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date:
21/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Andrea Quanchi]

At the ICM Andrea R gave us stickers to waar on our name badges so we could recognise each other.  Andrea are you coming to GeelongAndrea QOn 23/06/2006, at 12:09 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: Should we wear red carnations or something ?- would be great to put faces to names - I am going along with a colleague and a soon-to-be-midwife friend.Looking forward to it - sounds like a great conferenceSue- Original Message -From: Andrea QuanchiTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:08 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwivesAndrea QOn 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Are many Ozmidders going to the conference?Sue- Original Message -From: Sally-Anne BrownTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'.  We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website.  Please note we do not do day only tickets.  There are only 20 spaces left for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1.  Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned.  Women, babies, families, balloons and banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brownfor the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team.04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Jennifairy]

Susan Cudlipp wrote:

Should we wear red carnations or something ?- would be great to put 
faces to names - I am going along with a colleague and a 
soon-to-be-midwife friend.

Looking forward to it - sounds like a great conference
Sue


Im coming over in a car of 6, comprising 2 midwives & 2 proto-midwives 
(midwives in all but paperwork!), driving from Adelaide, will be a 
girlie road trip to tell my children about (except they are coming too!).
As to the ID issue, at the ICM we had name badges that we were able to 
attach "Ozmid" stickers to, that you could pick up from Andrea's stall - 
will you be there Andrea?

cheers
--

Jennifairy Gillett RM

Midwife in Private Practice

Women’s Health Teaching Associate

ITShare volunteer – Santos Project Co-ordinator
ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/
ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals & groups, created 
from donated hardware and opensource software


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation

[Susan Cudlipp]

Me too - many times - it's pretty cool to watch 
them spin round on the peri huh?
Sue

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ken 
  Ward 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:38 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
  rotation
  
  I 
  have seen OP's rotate once on the peri and vaginal dilation present. It was 
  fascinating to see, the saggituial suture rotating 180
  
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan 
CudlippSent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 6:05 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: 
Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation
Hi Astra
I have used this in the past having been shown 
it by (even) older midwives, but not for many years.  I had mixed 
success with it, there's no doubt that it can help on occasions, as with all 
these "old skills" some situations require a bit extra and if a midwife is 
alone she needs to use all the skills known to her (or him - sorry).  I 
have not had a situation in which to think of it for a very long time.  
OP's mostly rotate after full dilation and when they begin to descend, so 
trying to rotate them prior to that or when they are still high, seems 
pointless now.  It seems to me to be part of the old "you are fully now 
so let's get you pushing" scenario which I no longer practice. Physiological 
pushing when the woman feels the urge will accomplish rotation in most 
instances. If a woman is pushing as directed by her own sensations and has a 
baby in OP it will often take a long time to bring the baby into view 
because she is pushing him around gently - I rarely see a persistent OP 
these days, don't know when I last caught or saw a 'face to pubes' 
bub.
 
=I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual 
rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade 
of issues followed.=
Did this incident cause some adverse 
outcomes?  
 
Regards, Sue
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Astra 
  Joynt 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
  rotation
  
  Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student 
  who has recently joined the list, and have been getting a lot out of 
  reading the posts on various subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an 
  issue that I have been trying to resolve since early on in my clinical 
  experience. Without going into the whole story, I witnessed a digital 
  rotation, or manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of 
  labour, and a cascade of issues followed. In debriefing with my lecturers 
  at uni, I was told this is not good or safe practice at any time. I then 
  witnessed the same midwife perform this procedure again a few weeks later. 
  Debriefing with a clinical educater, I was told it is an 'old skill', and 
  certain very experienced midwives still practice it. Then my clinical 
  supervisor refuted this and said it is dangerous and has no place in 
  midwifery practice.This is a very brief summary of these conversations, 
  but I hope you get the gist. Anyway, I was happy with this, until I read 
  in Mayes Midwifery the other day that this procedure can be used to help 
  turn a posterior baby!! I am completely confused! Safe, or not? Evidence 
  based, or not? I would really appreciate any light cast on this subject... 
  and just in case no one knows what I mean by digital rotation (if this is 
  not the common term for it) It is the midwife using her fingers internally 
  to sort of hook the baby's head (cervix fully dilated I guess, or close to 
  it) and turn it into a more optimal position, using her own strength and 
  accompanied by the woman actively pushing. I just want to also say that I 
  know this is not something that should be occuring in any normal 
  straightforward birth, but what other information or experience to you 
  have, 
   
  warm regards, Astra
  
  

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  19/06/2006
  
  

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Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Susan Cudlipp]

 
Should we wear red carnations or something ?- would 
be great to put faces to names - I am going along with a colleague and a 
soon-to-be-midwife friend.
Looking forward to it - sounds like a great 
conference
Sue

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Andrea 
  Quanchi 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:08 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf 
  - Tickets nearly sold !
  yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwives
  Andrea Q
  
  On 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:
  
Are many Ozmidders going to the 
conference?
Sue

  - Original Message 
  -
  From: 
  Sally-Anne 
  Brown
  To: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Sent: 
  Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM
  Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
  
  Dear all
   
  Just to update you that the 
  24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger 
  conference venue'.  We only have five tickets left and the program is 
  now complete and available for viewing on the website.  Please note 
  we do not do day only tickets.  There are 
  only 20 spaces left for the conference dinner which will be 
  held on sat july1.  Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org
   
  We will be convening a 
  national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who 
  have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 
  at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned.  Women, babies, 
  families, balloons and banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo 
  shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon.
   
  We look forward to seeing you 
  all there...
   
  Warm 
  Regards
   
  Sally-Anne 
  Brown
  for the 24th Homebirth 
  Australia conference team.
  04319 466 
  47 
  
  

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  incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / 
  Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
  
  

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  21/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Jo Watson]

*thanks* :)JoOn 22/06/2006, at 8:35 PM, Barbara Glare & Chris Bright wrote:No sew on patch.  Will add stickers to the inventory! Barb- Original Message -From: Jo WatsonTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:19 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !On 22/06/2006, at 8:17 PM, Barbara Glare & Chris Bright wrote:I'm definately going, and so is my beautiful assistant and homebirthed daughter, Cassie (8) We are having a bit of a girl weekend.  Say hello to us at the Australian Breastfeeding Association/Mothers Direct stand.  BarbOoh, you'd be the person to ask about the ABA sticker I have: "Human Milk for Human Babies"... does that come in a sew-on patch, by any chance? :)Thanks,Jo

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[diane]

I am so jealous, staying put awaiting afore 
mentioned step-grandbaby. Will be a four hour dash on country roads to get 
there. Oh I know, maybe she should be induced to make it more convenient!! 
(tongue firmly in cheek!!)
Cheers,
Di

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Andrea 
  Quanchi 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:08 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf 
  - Tickets nearly sold !
  yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwives
  Andrea Q
  
  On 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:
  
Are many Ozmidders going to the 
conference?
Sue

  - Original Message 
  -
  From: 
  Sally-Anne 
  Brown
  To: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Sent: 
  Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PM
  Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
  
  Dear all
   
  Just to update you that the 
  24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger 
  conference venue'.  We only have five tickets left and the program is 
  now complete and available for viewing on the website.  Please note 
  we do not do day only tickets.  There are 
  only 20 spaces left for the conference dinner which will be 
  held on sat july1.  Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org
   
  We will be convening a 
  national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who 
  have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 
  at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned.  Women, babies, 
  families, balloons and banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo 
  shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon.
   
  We look forward to seeing you 
  all there...
   
  Warm 
  Regards
   
  Sally-Anne 
  Brown
  for the 24th Homebirth 
  Australia conference team.
  04319 466 
  47 
  
  

  No virus found in this 
  incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / 
  Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Barbara Glare & Chris Bright]

No sew on patch.  Will add stickers to the 
inventory!
 
Barb

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jo Watson 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:19 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf 
  - Tickets nearly sold !
  
  
  On 22/06/2006, at 8:17 PM, Barbara Glare & Chris Bright 
  wrote:
  
I'm definately going, and so is 
my beautiful assistant and homebirthed daughter, Cassie (8) We are having a 
bit of a girl weekend.  Say hello to us at the Australian Breastfeeding 
Association/Mothers Direct stand. 
 
Barb
  Ooh, you'd be the person to ask 
  about the ABA sticker I have: "Human Milk for Human Babies"... does that come 
  in a sew-on patch, by any chance? :)
  
  Thanks,
  Jo
  

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Jo Watson]

On 22/06/2006, at 8:17 PM, Barbara Glare & Chris Bright wrote:I'm definately going, and so is my beautiful assistant and homebirthed daughter, Cassie (8) We are having a bit of a girl weekend.  Say hello to us at the Australian Breastfeeding Association/Mothers Direct stand.  BarbOoh, you'd be the person to ask about the ABA sticker I have: "Human Milk for Human Babies"... does that come in a sew-on patch, by any chance? :)Thanks,Jo

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Barbara Glare & Chris Bright]

I'm definately going, and so is my beautiful 
assistant and homebirthed daughter, Cassie (8) We are having a bit of a girl 
weekend.  Say hello to us at the Australian Breastfeeding 
Association/Mothers Direct stand.  
 
Barb

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mary 
  Murphy 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:40 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf 
  - Tickets nearly sold !
  
  
  See you there 
  Jo.  MM
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo WatsonSent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 7:33 
  PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf 
  - Tickets nearly sold !
   
  I am going! I'm bringing a Midwife friend and my 1yo 
  (who my sister will look after during the days). Can't 
  wait!
  
   
  
  Jo Watson
  
   
  
  
  On 22/06/2006, at 4:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp 
  wrote:
  
  
  Are 
  many Ozmidders going to the conference?
  
  Sue

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Andrea Quanchi]

yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwivesAndrea QOn 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Are many Ozmidders going to the conference?Sue- Original Message -From: Sally-Anne BrownTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'.  We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website.  Please note we do not do day only tickets.  There are only 20 spaces left for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1.  Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned.  Women, babies, families, balloons and banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brownfor the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team.04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006

RE: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Mary Murphy]

See you there Jo.  MM

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jo Watson
Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 7:33
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th
HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !



 

I am going! I'm bringing a Midwife friend and my 1yo (who my sister
will look after during the days). Can't wait!



 





Jo Watson





 





On 22/06/2006, at 4:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:









Are many
Ozmidders going to the conference?





Sue

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Jo Watson]

I am going! I'm bringing a Midwife friend and my 1yo (who my sister will look after during the days).  Can't wait!Jo WatsonOn 22/06/2006, at 4:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Are many Ozmidders going to the conference?Sue

Re: [ozmidwifery] Consumer demand for inductions and caesareans

[Janet Fraser]

David this is an article off 
the JB website which talks very powerfully about some of these 
issues.
Enjoy!
J
http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles/personal-political.html

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Great 
  Birth & Men at Birth 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:28 
PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Consumer demand 
  for inductions and caesareans
  
  This is a very interesting area of debate.  The thing that strikes 
  me about obstetrics is that it seems to be one of the few areas of medical 
  'science' (other than plastic surgery) where the woman is allowed to 'choose' 
  a particular procedure, and in most cases the taxpayer will foot the 
  bill.  
  
  Is it ethical for obstetricians to do caesareans because women 'demand 
  them'?  Is it ethical to provide inductions because they are 
  'demanded?'.  I cannot demand morphine from the medical system because it 
  makes me feel good, and yet our system allows women to demand certain 
  obstetric procedures because they think it is good for them...
  
  We need to respect women's requests and expectations, but are their 
  requests and expectations absolute?
  
  I'm not a midwife and I thankfully don't have to struggle with these 
  daily dilemmas.  But consumers aren't always right and they certainly 
  aren't always wrong.
  
  What test can be used to determine whether a request is met or not?
  
  David
  
  _
  
  David 
  Vernon, Editor and Writer
  Having 
  a Great Birth in Australia, 
  Men 
  at Birth, 
  With 
  Women - Shiftwork to Group Practice and The 
  Hunt for Marasmus
  GPO Box 
  2314, Canberra ACT 2601, 
  Australia
  Em: Click 
  here to email me
  My 
  other websites: 
  
  Beryl's 
  Hansard 
  | A 
  Busy Dad's Guide to Cooking 
  | Kitty 
  & Maus 
  
  _
  
  
  On 19/06/2006, at 9:10 PM, Alesa Koziol wrote:
  
Women 
aren't doing their own Inductions and Caesareans... Very true, but they are all too 
frequently choosing them
 
Alesa
Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne

  - Original Message 
  -
  From: 
  Stephen 
  & Felicity
  To: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Sent: 
  Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:36 PM
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used?
  
  Interesting, 
  Megan.  The thing that is alarming to me in this scenario is not 
  the possible cash motivation, but the fact that "scheduling" and 
  "delaying" birth is considered to be something we as human beings have a 
  right to do as a normal part of our birthing processes.  Also the 
  "tsk tsk for shame" in this article seems to be solely directed at the 
  birthing women, and not the professionals willing to intervene in the 
  birth process to suit a timetable.  Women aren't doing their own 
  Inductions and Caesareans.
   
  
- Original Message 
-
From: 
Megan 
& Larry
To: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: 
Sunday, June 18, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] How long before synto is used?

We talk 
about choices, but look what we will do for free cash 
???
 
Megan 
(whose 4th was born on his timing 2 weeks before the 
magic date)
 

  
  
Baby bonus creates 
hospital havoc18jun06
THE 
introduction of the baby bonus on July 1, 2004, caused more than 1000 
scheduled births to be delayed, a new study shows.In its May 2004 Budget, the Federal 
Government announced a maternity payment – $3,000 for every baby born on 
or after July 1.
Research by Melbourne Business 
School economist Professor Joshua Gans and Australian National 
University economist Dr Andrew Leigh has shown there were more births on 
July 1, 2004, than on any other single date in the past 30 
years.
"We estimate that around 700 births 
were shifted from the last week of June 2004 into the first week of July 
2004," Dr Leigh said.
"But more troublingly, we found 
that around 300 births were moved by more than two weeks."


  
  


   
  

 

  

  


The researchers also found that the 
share of births that were induced or delivered by caesarean section was 
high in July 2004.
Dr Leigh said hospitals needed to 
plan for July 1 this year, when the bonus rises from $3,000 to 
$4,000.
"Maternity hospitals sh

RE: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation

[Ken Ward]

I have 
seen OP's rotate once on the peri and vaginal dilation present. It was 
fascinating to see, the saggituial suture rotating 180

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Susan 
  CudlippSent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 6:05 PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
  rotation
  Hi Astra
  I have used this in the past having been shown it 
  by (even) older midwives, but not for many years.  I had mixed success 
  with it, there's no doubt that it can help on occasions, as with all these 
  "old skills" some situations require a bit extra and if a midwife is alone she 
  needs to use all the skills known to her (or him - sorry).  I have not 
  had a situation in which to think of it for a very long time.  OP's 
  mostly rotate after full dilation and when they begin to descend, so trying to 
  rotate them prior to that or when they are still high, seems pointless 
  now.  It seems to me to be part of the old "you are fully now so let's 
  get you pushing" scenario which I no longer practice. Physiological pushing 
  when the woman feels the urge will accomplish rotation in most instances. If a 
  woman is pushing as directed by her own sensations and has a baby in OP it 
  will often take a long time to bring the baby into view because she is pushing 
  him around gently - I rarely see a persistent OP these days, don't know when I 
  last caught or saw a 'face to pubes' bub.
   
  =I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual 
  rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade 
  of issues followed.=
  Did this incident cause some adverse 
  outcomes?  
   
  Regards, Sue
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Astra Joynt 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
rotation

Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who 
has recently joined the list, and have been getting a lot out of reading the 
posts on various subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an issue that I 
have been trying to resolve since early on in my clinical experience. 
Without going into the whole story, I witnessed a digital rotation, or 
manual rotation of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a 
cascade of issues followed. In debriefing with my lecturers at uni, I was 
told this is not good or safe practice at any time. I then witnessed the 
same midwife perform this procedure again a few weeks later. Debriefing with 
a clinical educater, I was told it is an 'old skill', and certain very 
experienced midwives still practice it. Then my clinical supervisor refuted 
this and said it is dangerous and has no place in midwifery practice.This is 
a very brief summary of these conversations, but I hope you get the gist. 
Anyway, I was happy with this, until I read in Mayes Midwifery the other day 
that this procedure can be used to help turn a posterior baby!! I am 
completely confused! Safe, or not? Evidence based, or not? I would really 
appreciate any light cast on this subject... and just in case no one knows 
what I mean by digital rotation (if this is not the common term for it) It 
is the midwife using her fingers internally to sort of hook the baby's head 
(cervix fully dilated I guess, or close to it) and turn it into a more 
optimal position, using her own strength and accompanied by the woman 
actively pushing. I just want to also say that I know this is not something 
that should be occuring in any normal straightforward birth, but what other 
information or experience to you have, 
 
warm regards, Astra



No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 
19/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] vernix

[jesse/jayne]

I've had 3 all past due dates - 10 days, 5 days and 
14 days - and they all had vernix.  My 14 days past due date baby had the 
most vernix!
 
Regards
 
Jayne
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kristin 
  Beckedahl 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:07 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] vernix
  
  
  Is it true that if bubs have a bit of vernix on them when born, they are a 
  little 'early'...?
  K-- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit 
  to subscribe or 
unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !

[Susan Cudlipp]

Are many Ozmidders going to the 
conference?
Sue

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sally-Anne Brown 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - 
  Tickets nearly sold !
  
  Dear all
   
  Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth 
  Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference 
  venue'.  We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete 
  and available for viewing on the website.  Please note we do not do day 
  only tickets.  There are only 20 spaces left for the 
  conference dinner which will be held on sat july1.  Registration forms 
  can be downloaded at www.homebirthaustralia.org 
  
   
  We will be convening a national press conference 
  on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing 
  services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please 
  stay tuned.  Women, babies, families, balloons and banners warmly 
  welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 
  noon.
   
  We look forward to seeing you all 
  there...
   
  Warm Regards
   
  Sally-Anne Brown 
  for the 24th Homebirth Australia conference 
  team.
  04319 466 47 
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
  Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 
  21/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?

[Susan Cudlipp]

I too would like to see more women request being treated with respect and 
being consulted prior to interventions. Perhaps they don't think this 
wouldn't happen in hospital  :-)
We encourage our women to complete a birth plan - ( I agree that birth 
preferences may be a better term.)
Some fill them out with thought and have obviously researched, some just put 
routine things down, such as 'dad to cut cord' 'baby to breast' 'go with the 
flow'.
Our dr's now insist on 'discussing' birth plans with the women having had a 
few with choices they did not agree with! (read 'talk them around to my way 
of thinking') We midwives also discuss these with the women as they bring 
them in to clinic and hopefully give them the chance to talk through issues 
that may concern them.
On balance I feel it at least encourages women to think about their 
preferences and to be aware that they do have the right to make decisions, 
few seem to make unreasonable requests, but all too few put much thought 
into what may be important to them.

sue
- Original Message - 
From: "Alesa Koziol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?


Hi Mary I like this. as you say it is not so much specific to 
preferred

actions but a lovely reminder to all who may be alongside the woman that
respectful consideration is a the basic preference:) Many thanks for this
Alesa

Alesa Koziol
Clinical Midwifery Educator
Melbourne
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?



I have seen one which doesn't list the individual action desired (or

not)but

talks about quiet ambiance, privacy, being treated respectfully, having
things explained in easily understood language, having a few minutes to
digest the info and discuss it with partner/supporter, etc.  Not very

long,
but covering the main points.  This works no matter where the woman 
births

and reminds midwives of the importance of undisturbed birthing principles
and individual respect.
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Manual rotation

[Susan Cudlipp]

Hi Astra
I have used this in the past having been shown it 
by (even) older midwives, but not for many years.  I had mixed success with 
it, there's no doubt that it can help on occasions, as with all these "old 
skills" some situations require a bit extra and if a midwife is alone she needs 
to use all the skills known to her (or him - sorry).  I have not had a 
situation in which to think of it for a very long time.  OP's mostly rotate 
after full dilation and when they begin to descend, so trying to rotate them 
prior to that or when they are still high, seems pointless now.  It 
seems to me to be part of the old "you are fully now so let's get you pushing" 
scenario which I no longer practice. Physiological pushing when the woman feels 
the urge will accomplish rotation in most instances. If a woman is pushing as 
directed by her own sensations and has a baby in OP it will often take a long 
time to bring the baby into view because she is pushing him around gently - I 
rarely see a persistent OP these days, don't know when I last caught or 
saw a 'face to pubes' bub.
 
=I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation 
of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues 
followed.=
Did this incident cause some adverse 
outcomes?  
 
Regards, Sue
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Astra Joynt 
  
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:31 
PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Manual 
  rotation
  
  Hi eveyone, I am a first year Bmid student who 
  has recently joined the list, and have been getting a lot out of reading the 
  posts on various subjects. Now I'm wanting to ask advice on an issue that I 
  have been trying to resolve since early on in my clinical experience. Without 
  going into the whole story, I witnessed a digital rotation, or manual rotation 
  of the baby of a woman in late first stage of labour, and a cascade of issues 
  followed. In debriefing with my lecturers at uni, I was told this is not good 
  or safe practice at any time. I then witnessed the same midwife perform this 
  procedure again a few weeks later. Debriefing with a clinical educater, I was 
  told it is an 'old skill', and certain very experienced midwives still 
  practice it. Then my clinical supervisor refuted this and said it is dangerous 
  and has no place in midwifery practice.This is a very brief summary of these 
  conversations, but I hope you get the gist. Anyway, I was happy with this, 
  until I read in Mayes Midwifery the other day that this procedure can be used 
  to help turn a posterior baby!! I am completely confused! Safe, or not? 
  Evidence based, or not? I would really appreciate any light cast on this 
  subject... and just in case no one knows what I mean by digital rotation (if 
  this is not the common term for it) It is the midwife using her fingers 
  internally to sort of hook the baby's head (cervix fully dilated I guess, or 
  close to it) and turn it into a more optimal position, using her own strength 
  and accompanied by the woman actively pushing. I just want to also say that I 
  know this is not something that should be occuring in any normal 
  straightforward birth, but what other information or experience to you have, 
  
   
  warm regards, Astra
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free 
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  19/06/2006

Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?

[Alesa Koziol]

Hi Mary I like this. as you say it is not so much specific to preferred
actions but a lovely reminder to all who may be alongside the woman that
respectful consideration is a the basic preference:) Many thanks for this
Alesa

Alesa Koziol
Clinical Midwifery Educator
Melbourne
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?


> I have seen one which doesn't list the individual action desired (or
not)but
> talks about quiet ambiance, privacy, being treated respectfully, having
> things explained in easily understood language, having a few minutes to
> digest the info and discuss it with partner/supporter, etc.  Not very
long,
> but covering the main points.  This works no matter where the woman births
> and reminds midwives of the importance of undisturbed birthing principles
> and individual respect.
> --
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