RE: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough..
I wonder if they sell tickets to see whales mate as well?! This is just too much! And so cruel L! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria Lemay Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:56 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough.. This is the same nightmare scenario we have here in lovely Vancouver, BC Canada with our beluga and killer whales in captivity at the Vancouver Aquarium. It would curl your hair. The sea mammals are ultrasounded for "science" ---what does that do to their delicate sonar?? If not for the fact that the sea mammals are large and in water, I'm sure there would be cesareans. As it is, the babies are born spontaneously (at least vaginally although being contained in a small pool as opposed to an ocean has to cramp the mother's style) but then the fun begins. The public is allowed to come into the viewing area and great throngs show up to see the cute baby and new mom trying to get together to breastfeed. Needless to say, the breast feeding does not go well. They used to gavage feed the baby whale but they always died of infection, so the scientists "discovered" that colostrum is essential to baby whale survival. Now, the question arises, how to get that precious colostrum into the baby's gut while still selling tickets to the public H. . . . they invented a whale breast pump. So, the poor mother was lured into a "holding" pool, the water drained out of the pool once she was captive, and the pump attached to her mammaries. The colostrum was thus obtained and force fed to baby. Baby died anywaythere's more to breastfeeding and colostrum than just the substance, obviously. Peace, quiet, privacy and love seem to matter to whales, too. I have it all on tape---videotaped the evening news every night. All I could think was the words of Christ on the cross "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough.. It might be interesting for who ever wrote this to send a letter to the orang u tan keeper at the zoo, When the Melbourne zoo gorilla had a LUSCS a few years a go I ended up in quite a series of emails with the gorilla keeper who was in fact keen to talk about what had happened and why and to explore ways they could have handled it better next time. She in fact very much led the dialogue asking questions about what she had observed and what it might have meant. Asking the PR department at the zoo would be equivilant to asking the PR department at a big hospital to describe why things happen in labour ward. But ask the midwife and you'll get a very different answer. Andrea Quanchi On 20/08/2005, at 3:34 PM, Carolyn Hastie wrote: FYI Carolyn Hastie ICAN E-News Line International Cesarean Awareness Network Volume 31 August 17 , 2005 Focus: Eve and Araca 1. Essay: Eve and Araca Early May in Utah usually brings a few warm days and this year was no exception. We enjoyed a day trip to the zoo during this warm respite. Hogle Zoo isn’t my favorite zoo, but the kids enjoy seeing the animals. Two weeks later – on Mother’s Day- Eve, a female Orangutan, had a cesarean to deliver her baby, Araca. When I first heard the news, I thought, “What else would you expect to happen? You have an animal on the endangered species list, pregnant. What zoo keeper is going to ‘risk’ that pregnancy and baby by sitting on her hands and not doing anything? And ‘anything’ is enough to slow an animal’s labor progress.” There were many articles in the following weeks about the baby’s arrival. Strangely enough, I wasn’t upset by any of them, until I happened to hear a radio ‘interview’ with one of the zoo staff. The zoo keeper described the baby’s day, being cared for by the staff, fed formula from a bottle and being held by staff in furry vests. The radio host joked with her about the care of the baby, asking how the staff avoided ‘getting messed on’. The zoo employee said, “We don’t diaper the baby, we want to do everything natural with this little orangutan.” Suddenly, I was so angry I couldn’t see straight. Here is Eve, whose birth was denied her by staff, who now rejects her own baby. Here is a baby, whose mother doesn’t recognize or claim her, being fed formula from humans, being held by humans in furry vests and being shown off between the hours of 10 a.m. until 11 a.m. and again at 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. daily, and they have the nerve to claim they are doing everything natural because the baby doesn’t have a diaper on! I don’t know the details of Eve’s birth of her daughter. When called, the Zoo will not give out any de
Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough..
This is the same nightmare scenario we have here in lovely Vancouver, BC Canada with our beluga and killer whales in captivity at the Vancouver Aquarium. It would curl your hair. The sea mammals are ultrasounded for "science" ---what does that do to their delicate sonar?? If not for the fact that the sea mammals are large and in water, I'm sure there would be cesareans. As it is, the babies are born spontaneously (at least vaginally although being contained in a small pool as opposed to an ocean has to cramp the mother's style) but then the fun begins. The public is allowed to come into the viewing area and great throngs show up to see the cute baby and new mom trying to get together to breastfeed. Needless to say, the breast feeding does not go well. They used to gavage feed the baby whale but they always died of infection, so the scientists "discovered" that colostrum is essential to baby whale survival. Now, the question arises, how to get that precious colostrum into the baby's gut while still selling tickets to the public H. . . . they invented a whale breast pump. So, the poor mother was lured into a "holding" pool, the water drained out of the pool once she was captive, and the pump attached to her mammaries. The colostrum was thus obtained and force fed to baby. Baby died anywaythere's more to breastfeeding and colostrum than just the substance, obviously. Peace, quiet, privacy and love seem to matter to whales, too. I have it all on tape---videotaped the evening news every night. All I could think was the words of Christ on the cross "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Gloria Lemay - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough.. It might be interesting for who ever wrote this to send a letter to the orang u tan keeper at the zoo, When the Melbourne zoo gorilla had a LUSCS a few years a go I ended up in quite a series of emails with the gorilla keeper who was in fact keen to talk about what had happened and why and to explore ways they could have handled it better next time. She in fact very much led the dialogue asking questions about what she had observed and what it might have meant. Asking the PR department at the zoo would be equivilant to asking the PR department at a big hospital to describe why things happen in labour ward. But ask the midwife and you'll get a very different answer.Andrea QuanchiOn 20/08/2005, at 3:34 PM, Carolyn Hastie wrote: FYI Carolyn Hastie ICAN E-News Line International Cesarean Awareness Network Volume 31August 17 , 2005Focus: Eve and Araca 1. Essay: Eve and AracaEarly May in Utah usually brings a few warm days and this year was no exception. We enjoyed a day trip to the zoo during this warm respite. Hogle Zoo isn’t my favorite zoo, but the kids enjoy seeing the animals.Two weeks later – on Mother’s Day- Eve, a female Orangutan, had a cesarean to deliver her baby, Araca. When I first heard the news, I thought, “What else would you expect to happen? You have an animal on the endangered species list, pregnant. What zoo keeper is going to ‘risk’ that pregnancy and baby by sitting on her hands and not doing anything? And ‘anything’ is enough to slow an animal’s labor progress.” There were many articles in the following weeks about the baby’s arrival. Strangely enough, I wasn’t upset by any of them, until I happened to hear a radio ‘interview’ with one of the zoo staff. The zoo keeper described the baby’s day, being cared for by the staff, fed formula from a bottle and being held by staff in furry vests. The radio host joked with her about the care of the baby, asking how the staff avoided ‘getting messed on’. The zoo employee said, “We don’t diaper the baby, we want to do everything natural with this little orangutan.” Suddenly, I was so angry I couldn’t see straight. Here is Eve, whose birth was denied her by staff, who now rejects her own baby. Here is a baby, whose mother doesn’t recognize or claim her, being fed formula from humans, being held by humans in furry vests and being shown off between the hours of 10 a.m. until 11 a.m. and again at 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. daily, and they have the nerve to claim they are doing everything natural because the baby doesn’t have a diaper on!I don’t know the details of Eve’s birth of her daughter. When called, the Zoo will not give out any details. When asked questions like, “How did staff know Eve was in labor? How long was she in labor? Was baby in distress at birth?”- no answer is given. You and I most likely will never ge
Re: [ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough..
It might be interesting for who ever wrote this to send a letter to the orang u tan keeper at the zoo, When the Melbourne zoo gorilla had a LUSCS a few years a go I ended up in quite a series of emails with the gorilla keeper who was in fact keen to talk about what had happened and why and to explore ways they could have handled it better next time. She in fact very much led the dialogue asking questions about what she had observed and what it might have meant. Asking the PR department at the zoo would be equivilant to asking the PR department at a big hospital to describe why things happen in labour ward. But ask the midwife and you'll get a very different answer. Andrea Quanchi On 20/08/2005, at 3:34 PM, Carolyn Hastie wrote: FYI Carolyn Hastie ICAN E-News LineInternational Cesarean Awareness NetworkVolume 31 August 17 , 2005 Focus: Eve and Araca1. Essay: Eve and Araca Early May in Utah usually brings a few warm days and this year was no exception. We enjoyed a day trip to the zoo during this warm respite. Hogle Zoo isn’t my favorite zoo, but the kids enjoy seeing the animals. Two weeks later – on Mother’s Day- Eve, a female Orangutan, had a cesarean to deliver her baby, Araca. When I first heard the news, I thought, “What else would you expect to happen? You have an animal on the endangered species list, pregnant. What zoo keeper is going to ‘risk’ that pregnancy and baby by sitting on her hands and not doing anything? And ‘anything’ is enough to slow an animal’s labor progress.” There were many articles in the following weeks about the baby’s arrival. Strangely enough, I wasn’t upset by any of them, until I happened to hear a radio ‘interview’ with one of the zoo staff. The zoo keeper described the baby’s day, being cared for by the staff, fed formula from a bottle and being held by staff in furry vests. The radio host joked with her about the care of the baby, asking how the staff avoided ‘getting messed on’. The zoo employee said, “We don’t diaper the baby, we want to do everything natural with this little orangutan.” Suddenly, I was so angry I couldn’t see straight. Here is Eve, whose birth was denied her by staff, who now rejects her own baby. Here is a baby, whose mother doesn’t recognize or claim her, being fed formula from humans, being held by humans in furry vests and being shown off between the hours of 10 a.m. until 11 a.m. and again at 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. daily, and they have the nerve to claim they are doing everything natural because the baby doesn’t have a diaper on! I don’t know the details of Eve’s birth of her daughter. When called, the Zoo will not give out any details. When asked questions like, “How did staff know Eve was in labor? How long was she in labor? Was baby in distress at birth?”- no answer is given. You and I most likely will never get the answers to these questions or to the ultimate one they lead to, “Was the cesarean really necessary?” In the end, it might matter if we knew and it might not. What I do know is that there is a mother who does not know her baby and a baby who does not know her mother. They did not get to bond after a natural birth. The baby never breast feed. The baby has not learned to cuddle with her mother and, in turn, may not mother her own babies naturally. Generations have been affected by this cesarean, in a species that does not have generations to give to the nervous human. ~ Pamela Udy, ICAN VP A quick note: Hogle Zoo itself admits the cesarean is the reason Eve does not recognize her baby. Here is a blurb from their website: Baby Orangutan The baby, born Mother’s Day weekend by cesarean section, is slowly being introduced to her mom. Because of the cesarean birth, Eve does not yet recognize the baby as hers. The staff is doing slow introductions, in an off exhibit area, to help mother and daughter bond. http://hoglezoo.org/about/events/ http://www.hoglezoo.org/whats.new/
[ozmidwifery] As if messing with humans isn't enough..
Title: Untitled Document FYI Carolyn Hastie ICAN E-News Line International Cesarean Awareness NetworkVolume 31August 17 , 2005 Focus: Eve and Araca 1. Essay: Eve and Araca Early May in Utah usually brings a few warm days and this year was no exception. We enjoyed a day trip to the zoo during this warm respite. Hogle Zoo isnt my favorite zoo, but the kids enjoy seeing the animals. Two weeks later on Mothers Day- Eve, a female Orangutan, had a cesarean to deliver her baby, Araca. When I first heard the news, I thought, What else would you expect to happen? You have an animal on the endangered species list, pregnant. What zoo keeper is going to risk that pregnancy and baby by sitting on her hands and not doing anything? And anything is enough to slow an animals labor progress. There were many articles in the following weeks about the babys arrival. Strangely enough, I wasnt upset by any of them, until I happened to hear a radio interview with one of the zoo staff. The zoo keeper described the babys day, being cared for by the staff, fed formula from a bottle and being held by staff in furry vests. The radio host joked with her about the care of the baby, asking how the staff avoided getting messed on. The zoo employee said, We dont diaper the baby, we want to do everything natural with this little orangutan. Suddenly, I was so angry I couldnt see straight. Here is Eve, whose birth was denied her by staff, who now rejects her own baby. Here is a baby, whose mother doesnt recognize or claim her, being fed formula from humans, being held by humans in furry vests and being shown off between the hours of 10 a.m. until 11 a.m. and again at 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. daily, and they have the nerve to claim they are doing everything natural because the baby doesnt have a diaper on! I dont know the details of Eves birth of her daughter. When called, the Zoo will not give out any details. When asked questions like, How did staff know Eve was in labor? How long was she in labor? Was baby in distress at birth?- no answer is given. You and I most likely will never get the answers to these questions or to the ultimate one they lead to, Was the cesarean really necessary? In the end, it might matter if we knew and it might not. What I do know is that there is a mother who does not know her baby and a baby who does not know her mother. They did not get to bond after a natural birth. The baby never breast feed. The baby has not learned to cuddle with her mother and, in turn, may not mother her own babies naturally. Generations have been affected by this cesarean, in a species that does not have generations to give to the nervous human. ~ Pamela Udy, ICAN VP A quick note: Hogle Zoo itself admits the cesarean is the reason Eve does not recognize her baby. Here is a blurb from their website: Baby Orangutan The baby, born Mothers Day weekend by cesarean section, is slowly being introduced to her mom. Because of the cesarean birth, Eve does not yet recognize the baby as hers. The staff is doing slow introductions, in an off exhibit area, to help mother and daughter bond. http://hoglezoo.org/about/events/ http://www.hoglezoo.org/whats.new/
