RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

LOL oops sorry - I am deliriously tired :-) Anyone else want some phone
calls while I am at it?! :-)

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of diane
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 11:09 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Wrong Di I think Kelly!! 

But you can call me if you like : )

 

cheers,

Di (L) in Mackay

- Original Message - 

From: Kelly @ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  BellyBelly 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:25 PM

Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Ooooh that's a great idea Di!!! I should try and arrange a time to do a face
to face and invite some people :-) Hm who would I invite?!?!?

 

Ps. Will call you tomorrow, meant to do so today but been flat out - chat
then ;)

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Zantey


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of diane
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 7:10 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

GO KELLY!!!

Just speak from the heart and have a few stats to throw in. Why not invite
him for coffee and have a one or two women speak of their experiences?? 

Cheers

Di

 

- Original Message - 

From: Kelly @ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  BellyBelly 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:02 PM

Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Well what do you know - that big email I sent out to the pollies recently
spilling all my guts on the horrific things going on in birth, breastfeeding
and MCHN's CC'ing training - I finally have a reply from my local labor
candidate and he's given me his mobile number to call him:

 

"You have raised many important issues that no email can do it justice.

Can you give me a call and we can discuss the points raised.

My best number is my mobile "

 

Will be an interesting discussion, he seems rather caring and receptive :-)
Now I wish I knew a hell of a lot more than I do so I can put forward the
most intelligent arguments!!! This is where I would love your brain Justine
and your ability to think on your feet, no matter what discussion you are
thrust into!

 

At least I got what I asked for - no standard office replies! If only I
can get one back from the liberal member for my area - the state
opposition!!! :-)

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Zantey


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:12 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Hi Kelly

I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out
some strategies on 'mainstreaming' 1-2-1 mid options and making our goals
palatable 'out there'.  I know you and Pinky have contact with some big
players and I have often thought we need to maximise ay exposure (not saying
you don't just would like to natter about it a bit!).

Kind regards

Justine 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[diane]

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news articleWrong Di I think Kelly!! 
But you can call me if you like : )

cheers,
Di (L) in Mackay
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kelly @ BellyBelly 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:25 PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article


  Ooooh that's a great idea Di!!! I should try and arrange a time to do a face 
to face and invite some people J Hm who would I invite?!?!?

   

  Ps. Will call you tomorrow, meant to do so today but been flat out - chat 
then ;)

   

  Best Regards,

   

  Kelly Zantey

  Creator, BellyBelly.com.au

  Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby

  BellyBelly Birth Support


--

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of diane
  Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 7:10 PM
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

   

  GO KELLY!!!

  Just speak from the heart and have a few stats to throw in. Why not invite 
him for coffee and have a one or two women speak of their experiences?? 

  Cheers

  Di

   

- Original Message - 

From: Kelly @ BellyBelly 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:02 PM

Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Well what do you know - that big email I sent out to the pollies recently 
spilling all my guts on the horrific things going on in birth, breastfeeding 
and MCHN's CC'ing training - I finally have a reply from my local labor 
candidate and he's given me his mobile number to call him:

 

"You have raised many important issues that no email can do it justice.

Can you give me a call and we can discuss the points raised.

My best number is my mobile "

 

Will be an interesting discussion, he seems rather caring and receptive J 
Now I wish I knew a hell of a lot more than I do so I can put forward the most 
intelligent arguments!!! This is where I would love your brain Justine and your 
ability to think on your feet, no matter what discussion you are thrust into!

 

At least I got what I asked for - no standard office replies! If only I 
can get one back from the liberal member for my area - the state opposition!!! J

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Zantey




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine 
Caines
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:12 PM
To: OzMid List
    Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Hi Kelly

I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out 
some strategies on 'mainstreaming' 1-2-1 mid options and making our goals 
palatable 'out there'.  I know you and Pinky have contact with some big players 
and I have often thought we need to maximise ay exposure (not saying you don't 
just would like to natter about it a bit!).

Kind regards

Justine 

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Ooooh that's a great idea Di!!! I should try and arrange a time to do a face
to face and invite some people :-) Hm who would I invite?!?!?

 

Ps. Will call you tomorrow, meant to do so today but been flat out - chat
then ;)

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Zantey

Creator,  <http://www.bellybelly.com.au> BellyBelly.com.au

Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby

 <http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support> BellyBelly Birth Support

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of diane
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 7:10 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

GO KELLY!!!

Just speak from the heart and have a few stats to throw in. Why not invite
him for coffee and have a one or two women speak of their experiences?? 

Cheers

Di

 

- Original Message - 

From: Kelly @ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  BellyBelly 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:02 PM

Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Well what do you know - that big email I sent out to the pollies recently
spilling all my guts on the horrific things going on in birth, breastfeeding
and MCHN's CC'ing training - I finally have a reply from my local labor
candidate and he's given me his mobile number to call him:

 

"You have raised many important issues that no email can do it justice.

Can you give me a call and we can discuss the points raised.

My best number is my mobile "

 

Will be an interesting discussion, he seems rather caring and receptive :-)
Now I wish I knew a hell of a lot more than I do so I can put forward the
most intelligent arguments!!! This is where I would love your brain Justine
and your ability to think on your feet, no matter what discussion you are
thrust into!

 

At least I got what I asked for - no standard office replies! If only I
can get one back from the liberal member for my area - the state
opposition!!! :-)

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Zantey


  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:12 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Hi Kelly

I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out
some strategies on 'mainstreaming' 1-2-1 mid options and making our goals
palatable 'out there'.  I know you and Pinky have contact with some big
players and I have often thought we need to maximise ay exposure (not saying
you don't just would like to natter about it a bit!).

Kind regards

Justine 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[diane]

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news articleGO KELLY!!!
Just speak from the heart and have a few stats to throw in. Why not invite him 
for coffee and have a one or two women speak of their experiences?? 
Cheers
Di

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kelly @ BellyBelly 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:02 PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article


  Well what do you know - that big email I sent out to the pollies recently 
spilling all my guts on the horrific things going on in birth, breastfeeding 
and MCHN's CC'ing training - I finally have a reply from my local labor 
candidate and he's given me his mobile number to call him:

   

  "You have raised many important issues that no email can do it justice.

  Can you give me a call and we can discuss the points raised.

  My best number is my mobile "

   

  Will be an interesting discussion, he seems rather caring and receptive J Now 
I wish I knew a hell of a lot more than I do so I can put forward the most 
intelligent arguments!!! This is where I would love your brain Justine and your 
ability to think on your feet, no matter what discussion you are thrust into!

   

  At least I got what I asked for - no standard office replies! If only I 
can get one back from the liberal member for my area - the state opposition!!! J

   

  Best Regards,

   

  Kelly Zantey


--

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines
  Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:12 PM
  To: OzMid List
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

   

  Hi Kelly

  I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out 
some strategies on 'mainstreaming' 1-2-1 mid options and making our goals 
palatable 'out there'.  I know you and Pinky have contact with some big players 
and I have often thought we need to maximise ay exposure (not saying you don't 
just would like to natter about it a bit!).

  Kind regards

  Justine 

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Well what do you know - that big email I sent out to the pollies recently
spilling all my guts on the horrific things going on in birth, breastfeeding
and MCHN's CC'ing training - I finally have a reply from my local labor
candidate and he's given me his mobile number to call him:

 

"You have raised many important issues that no email can do it justice.

Can you give me a call and we can discuss the points raised.

My best number is my mobile "

 

Will be an interesting discussion, he seems rather caring and receptive :-)
Now I wish I knew a hell of a lot more than I do so I can put forward the
most intelligent arguments!!! This is where I would love your brain Justine
and your ability to think on your feet, no matter what discussion you are
thrust into!

 

At least I got what I asked for - no standard office replies! If only I
can get one back from the liberal member for my area - the state
opposition!!! :-)

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Zantey

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:12 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Hi Kelly

I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out
some strategies on 'mainstreaming' 1-2-1 mid options and making our goals
palatable 'out there'.  I know you and Pinky have contact with some big
players and I have often thought we need to maximise ay exposure (not saying
you don't just would like to natter about it a bit!).

Kind regards

Justine 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Sadie]

GO MARY
 
Luv Sadie

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mary 
  Murphy 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 6:51 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  
  Tania rightly says ”I 
  have never gotten used to the amount of internal bickering and horizontal 
  violence that is perpetrated by women, towards other 
  women. “
  CAN WE PLEASE STOP 
  THIS!  This juvenile attitude has split the women’s movement, the 
  homebirth movement and every other collection of women I have seen and read 
  about.  23 yrs as a homebirth midwife sees me still providing care for 
  women who  previously “didn’t know 1-2-1 care existed”, and believe me, I 
  have tried every promotional trick in the book including interviews with TV, 
  newspapers, magazines etc over time.  We all need to put our energy into 
  supporting the women who contact us AND EACH OTHER.  Tania and others 
  have said it all, so lets get back to work.  
  MM
   
  
  
  
  
  --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by 
  AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release 
  Date: 21/09/2006
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  AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release 
  Date: 21/09/2006

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Tania Smallwood]

I think we are thinking the same things
Lisa…just saying them differently!  Absolutely agree, I think we all
have to keep in mind that even in a perfect world, where women all know and
acknowledge what is truly best and safest, there will still be those that are
not ready to hear it.  That’s frustrating, but that’s
life.  I think part of our challenge is to try and see when people are
receptive to the information, and then get it across in a way that makes them see
the sense in it, and want to know more.  If women are closed to receiving
it from us, or anyone else, then I think we need to respect that, and keep
working at getting the information out there for those who are interested in
searching.  This doesn’t always mean ‘preaching to the converted’;
sometimes it just means having a presence and arousing some curiosity in
someone who is open to thinking about it in a different way to the ‘norm’. 
I suppose, we need to keep it in perspective too, without losing the passion
and drive, but realizing as Megan said, that if it’s only one woman
affected positively, it’s a win. 

Keep the faith Lisa, we need you out there

Tania

x

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lisa Barrett
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006
9:35 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



 







- Original
Message - 





From: Tania Smallwood 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Friday,
September 22, 2006 5:19 PM





Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] FYI news article





 



I have worked as a Registered Nurse, in
Psychiatry, and also as a Midwife, and I have never gotten used to the amount
of internal bickering and horizontal violence that is perpetrated by women,
towards other women.  I can tell you from my experiences in these fields
that Doctors do not sit around, discussing each others practice, bitching and
moaning about whether they agree with someone’s philosophies.  They might
be unprofessional bastards some of the time, but they are united in their
common goals, and in their public persona.  As we fight internally about
the best way to get women to see the light, they are there shining it brightly
and the women are drawn to it clearly!  I don’t think for a minute
we should, as midwives and birth activists, see ourselves as having to sell out
and become an entity that has no integrity or spirit in order to get the
message across.  But I do think that we all need to take a leaf out of
some other professions books, and show a bit of respect to those that have gone
before us, and encouragement for those that will pave the way ahead. 
Eating our young is no way to carry on the cause; it just further perpetuates
the fragmentation that already exists.  Let’s welcome Kelly, Janet,
and everyone else who has the energy to do things a bit differently, and also
keep our feet firmly planted on the ground, so we can continue to carry on
getting the word out there in any way we can.

 

Nicely said Tania, but you've got to admit
there are just some days when you don't want to justify what you know is well
researched and evidence based just to get the word out to people who are not
interested. 

Lack of respect for everyone I don't think
is in it.  I have nothing but admiration for the work done by Kelly, Janet
and everyone "working for the cause" but on a day to day basis it's
wearing.  On a day like today when I'm tired have a headache, quarelled
with the husband due to my birth obsession  I find it hard to see the
middle ground.  Slated by the uninformed is one thing but to be told to
make it all more sellable and main stream just seems too hard. Take up
insurance to make yourself more Profesional and get the women interested in
whats on offer. Sell it like a business, move into the 21st centary.  It
doesn't seem to be about birth.

Maybe it's just a bad day.

Lisa Independent midwife.

 










--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 21/09/2006
 

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 21/09/2006
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Lisa Barrett]

 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tania 
  Smallwood 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 5:19 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  
  I have worked as a 
  Registered Nurse, in Psychiatry, and also as a Midwife, and I have never 
  gotten used to the amount of internal bickering and horizontal violence that 
  is perpetrated by women, towards other women.  I can tell you from my 
  experiences in these fields that Doctors do not sit around, discussing each 
  others practice, bitching and moaning about whether they agree with someone’s 
  philosophies.  They might be unprofessional bastards some of the time, 
  but they are united in their common goals, and in their public persona.  
  As we fight internally about the best way to get women to see the light, they 
  are there shining it brightly and the women are drawn to it clearly!  I 
  don’t think for a minute we should, as midwives and birth activists, see 
  ourselves as having to sell out and become an entity that has no integrity or 
  spirit in order to get the message across.  But I do think that we all 
  need to take a leaf out of some other professions books, and show a bit of 
  respect to those that have gone before us, and encouragement for those that 
  will pave the way ahead.  Eating our young is no way to carry on the 
  cause; it just further perpetuates the fragmentation that already 
  exists.  Let’s welcome Kelly, Janet, and everyone else who has the energy 
  to do things a bit differently, and also keep our feet firmly planted on the 
  ground, so we can continue to carry on getting the word out there in any way 
  we can.
   
  Nicely said Tania, 
  but you've got to admit there are just some days when you don't want to 
  justify what you know is well researched and evidence based just to get the 
  word out to people who are not interested. 
  Lack of respect for 
  everyone I don't think is in it.  I have nothing but admiration for the 
  work done by Kelly, Janet and everyone "working for the cause" but on a day to 
  day basis it's wearing.  On a day like today when I'm tired have a 
  headache, quarelled with the husband due to my birth obsession  I find it 
  hard to see the middle ground.  Slated by the uninformed is one thing but 
  to be told to make it all more sellable and main stream just seems too hard. 
  Take up insurance to make yourself more Profesional and get the women 
  interested in whats on offer. Sell it like a business, move into the 21st 
  centary.  It doesn't seem to be about birth.
  Maybe it's just a bad 
  day.
  Lisa Independent 
  midwife.
   

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[diane]

LOL , was my response to her almost!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Janet 
  Fraser 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:28 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  'long haired hairy leggged hippy homebirth faction' Oh Diane 
  that's a crack up, made me laugh a lot to hear that old furphy still getting a 
  work out : ) Please let your friend know that statistically home birthing 
  women are middle class and tertiary educated. Tree loving or leg shaving I 
  cannot vouch for but maybe we should run polls on 
  it.
  Funny how women who act 
  from scientific evidence are depicted, isn't it?!
  : )
  J <- middle class, 
  tertiary educated, lover of shoes, lipstick and home birth, never confused 
  with a hippy when viewed in person : 
)

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Janet Fraser]

'long 
haired hairy leggged hippy homebirth faction' Oh Diane that's a crack up, made 
me laugh a lot to hear that old furphy still getting a work out : ) Please let 
your friend know that statistically home birthing women are middle class and 
tertiary educated. Tree loving or leg shaving I cannot vouch for but maybe we 
should run polls on it.
Funny how women who act from 
scientific evidence are depicted, isn't it?!
: )
J <- middle class, 
tertiary educated, lover of shoes, lipstick and home birth, never confused with 
a hippy when viewed in person : )

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Tania Smallwood]

Hi Kelly, Janet, and everyone,

I’m thrilled to think that we have
yet another strong woman-centred consumer advocate in Kelly, and I also admire her
energy and enthusiasm.  Can we all please keep in mind that there are lots
of women (and men too) who have spent a considerable amount of money, and time,
dedicating their lives to exactly this already…and whether they have
chosen a difficult and tedious path, or an easy and obvious one, they deserve
the respect of all of us…we are all in this for the same reasons! 
We all want the same thing!  This is such a multifaceted problem, it’s
political, it’s historical, it’s personal for so many of us, I
appeal to everyone to please, keep the big picture in mind.  We are all in
this together.  We all want women to have the enlightenment to trust
themselves, for midwives to be seen by the population and the Government as the
most appropriate providers of maternity care to the majority of women, and for
them all to have wonderful empowering births.  There are lots of things we
can do to help this happen, and I think there is benefit in having the ongoing
battles being fought and won over time, as well as having speed and energy
pushing things forward.  I for one, think that we need to realize that if
we want longevity in this fight, and given the history both here and overseas,
we’re going to need it, we need to take comfort in the small wins, as
well as keep in focus the larger battles.  Every woman who is touched by a
positive story of birth, every woman who makes a positive change to her own
situation, every woman who has a ‘better birth’ is worth
acknowledging as being a small, but significant step in the right
direction.  

I have worked as a Registered Nurse, in
Psychiatry, and also as a Midwife, and I have never gotten used to the amount
of internal bickering and horizontal violence that is perpetrated by women,
towards other women.  I can tell you from my experiences in these fields
that Doctors do not sit around, discussing each others practice, bitching and
moaning about whether they agree with someone’s philosophies.  They
might be unprofessional bastards some of the time, but they are united in their
common goals, and in their public persona.  As we fight internally about
the best way to get women to see the light, they are there shining it brightly
and the women are drawn to it clearly!  I don’t think for a minute
we should, as midwives and birth activists, see ourselves as having to sell out
and become an entity that has no integrity or spirit in order to get the
message across.  But I do think that we all need to take a leaf out of
some other professions books, and show a bit of respect to those that have gone
before us, and encouragement for those that will pave the way ahead.  Eating
our young is no way to carry on the cause; it just further perpetuates the
fragmentation that already exists.  Let’s welcome Kelly, Janet, and
everyone else who has the energy to do things a bit differently, and also keep
our feet firmly planted on the ground, so we can continue to carry on getting
the word out there in any way we can. 

Tania   

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stephen & Felicity
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006
1:09 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



I'm glad you're having such an awakening and
feeling so motivated, Kelly; it's something many of us felt and began to act on
a long time ago - welcome to the club, it's populated by many decades of women
who continue to work hard to heal birth in our culture - which is a long, slow
battle.  We're all pretty aware of the situation and we're all working to
the best of our own capacitys to improve it (some of us at no profit, by
finance or publicity or otherwise, to ourselves).  Some of your suggestions
have been really worthwhile and quite exciting, but I have to admit that
I'm losing my enthusiasm for them amid the sea of self promotional rhetoric
that accompanies them - OzMid is not a promotional tool for BellyBelly and some
posts on this list related to it have felt like advertising Spam in my
InBox.  I have to say I find your assumptions about Janet Fraser in
particular to be offensive.  Do you actually know the totality
of what Janet does in her professional and personal capacity, or the
widespread and rapidly growing effect Joyous Birth is having Australia wide,
both in the mainstream and otherwise? It's nothing like one woman espousing her
own views to the converted, and how utterly rude to dismiss the lifework of one
of your sisters as being such.  Every contribution counts and whilst I
think I understand the point you're trying to make about reaching the
mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to better enable us
to begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - women and
babies are not a market and our integ

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[diane]

Not everyones home is a haven. For some it can 
represent other more less savoury things, the least of being an 
ongoing place of toil, the worst being a place of fear and domestic violence. 
The memories flood of a half renovated (for 10 yrs), with no internal walls in 
places, no floor coverings, an outdoor loo, cockroaches and fleas in summer and 
endless piles of childrens washing waiting to be folded. 
 
Now I am home visiting women after the birth, 
(anytime from four hours after birth), and seeing much the same thing at 
times. So I guess although the five star option is there for those who can 
afford private cover, the gold star option of a midwife visiting them at home 
(so much as it sometimes is) is happening and available for those in a very low 
socioeconomic area. Soon whith our area moving to midwifery group practice, many 
of the women will have a known midwife visiting them, already I know many that I 
visit.
 
To Janet and her supporters, your work is so 
valuable. JB is so valuable. BUT the tone of your posts is inflamatory and 
defensive. Guess what Felicity, even I ,who spends endless hours on the internet 
, had not heard of JB before joining this list, I have not seen the physical 
presence in the community or stumbled across it online at other times. To me 
that doesnt mean those who are on JB arent doing fantastic work, but so is 
Kelly, Pinky, Sarah Buckley, Andrea, Brenda Manning, Jan Cornfoot and all of the 
others who run commercial style programs. If women get the message, some 
education about normal birth, what does it matter. I dont find any of the 
information watered down, just presented in a gentle commercial style that women 
are used to. Whats wrong with marketing to the masses if the product is good? 
Isn't that what we want? More women having natural, satisfying births no matter 
the setting. They will still tell their friends it is possible and women will 
regain the ownership of birth, they will not see the need for an 
OB.
 
We are all working towards the same end from 
different directions. This is an important aspect of facilitating change. If the 
'long haired hairy leggged hippy homebirth faction' (the words of a friend of 
mine) are the only ones speaking then many will not hear BUT in any action it is 
important to have the vocal, radical faction to wave the banners, climb the 
trees etc to draw attention to the cause. I want to save the forests but wont 
sit in a tree, I will write letters to the pollies!. But thank God for the tree 
sitters for getting the media on to it! JB keep tree sitting, Kelly keep on 
keeping on.
 
I first became interested in Midwifery 19yrs ago 
when preg with my second. I was a postnatally depressed out of work, 
impoverished electrician with a little baby and a bad relationship. Now that 
there is some mainstream discussion and commercial exposure I am finally 
starting to see some hope. 19yrs ago I was part of a group that tried to promote 
natural birth, this was before the internet, but not dissimilar to JB. That 
approach has been tapping away forever with small but significant gains. If 
there are enough women to support commercial enterprises that focus on natural 
birth, then we are definitely well on our way to success. There is no way that 
anyone could have made a living out of normal birth back then, and now 
many are following their passion. If there are publicly funded homebirths 
happening, we are on our way to success. When we have things like this to bicker 
over, then we are on our way to success. We should be celebrating, not 
undermining each others success.
Di

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lisa Barrett 
  
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  I- 
  
 Every contribution counts 
and whilst I think I understand the point you're trying to make about 
reaching the mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to 
better enable us to begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - 
women and babies are not a market and our integrity is not for sale.  I 
fear the overstepping of that invisible line that would transform us into 
nothing too different from the Obs and Hospys - big business, marketed to 
the masses (for instance, in my personal experience, your forum/site needs 
to compromise a lot in order to appeal to the larger membership you enjoy; 
this results in some less than optimal advertising and advice, and the sad 
loss of some wonderful contributions and items.  Do the ends justify 
the means? That's a decision we each need to make, and your contribution is 
still significant, though not necessarily in the form I would personally 
choose for myself).  What is the point of a message reaching more 
people if the message has had to be diluted and perhaps changed in ord

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Janet Fraser]

Beautifully said, Lisa. Thank 
you!
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lisa Barrett 
  
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  I- 
  
 Every contribution counts 
and whilst I think I understand the point you're trying to make about 
reaching the mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to 
better enable us to begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - 
women and babies are not a market and our integrity is not for sale.  I 
fear the overstepping of that invisible line that would transform us into 
nothing too different from the Obs and Hospys - big business, marketed to 
the masses (for instance, in my personal experience, your forum/site needs 
to compromise a lot in order to appeal to the larger membership you enjoy; 
this results in some less than optimal advertising and advice, and the sad 
loss of some wonderful contributions and items.  Do the ends justify 
the means? That's a decision we each need to make, and your contribution is 
still significant, though not necessarily in the form I would personally 
choose for myself).  What is the point of a message reaching more 
people if the message has had to be diluted and perhaps changed in order to 
get there?  Nothing is simple and these aspects need to be 
considered.  It is the various voices of all of us that shed light on 
darker areas of the topic; some more straightforward and uncompromising 
contributions may seem difficult to hear but they're usually the most 
valuable and evidence-based in my experience, and I enjoy them 
thoroughly.
 
--
I agree totally with this.  I could never 
agree with women going to a 5 star facility instead of going home or in fact 
not leaving their home at all, when we know this would prevent the need in 
the first place.  I don't want my views to be dumbed down so that 
uniformed women can think they are more palitable.  The women on the 
thread that was posted here weren't thinking of their pregnancy birth or 
baby but of the fantastic offer of 5 star accommodation.  I just feel 
sorry for the reality that lies ahead for them after their awful birth ( 
published figures at Ashford the hospital in the story section rate 
49.9% instramental rate 16%)  well I don't think they are going to be 
over subscribed since only 34% of women over the whole year birth 
normally.  Some months none do.
 
Lisa
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Lisa Barrett]

I- 

   Every contribution counts and 
  whilst I think I understand the point you're trying to make about reaching the 
  mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to better enable us 
  to begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - women and babies are 
  not a market and our integrity is not for sale.  I fear the overstepping 
  of that invisible line that would transform us into nothing too different from 
  the Obs and Hospys - big business, marketed to the masses (for instance, in my 
  personal experience, your forum/site needs to compromise a lot in order to 
  appeal to the larger membership you enjoy; this results in some less than 
  optimal advertising and advice, and the sad loss of some wonderful 
  contributions and items.  Do the ends justify the means? That's a 
  decision we each need to make, and your contribution is still significant, 
  though not necessarily in the form I would personally choose for 
  myself).  What is the point of a message reaching more people if the 
  message has had to be diluted and perhaps changed in order to get there?  
  Nothing is simple and these aspects need to be considered.  It is the 
  various voices of all of us that shed light on darker areas of the topic; some 
  more straightforward and uncompromising contributions may seem difficult to 
  hear but they're usually the most valuable and evidence-based in my 
  experience, and I enjoy them thoroughly.
   
  --
  I agree totally with this.  I could never 
  agree with women going to a 5 star facility instead of going home or in fact 
  not leaving their home at all, when we know this would prevent the need in the 
  first place.  I don't want my views to be dumbed down so that uniformed 
  women can think they are more palitable.  The women on the thread that 
  was posted here weren't thinking of their pregnancy birth or baby but of the 
  fantastic offer of 5 star accommodation.  I just feel sorry for the 
  reality that lies ahead for them after their awful birth ( published figures 
  at Ashford the hospital in the story section rate 49.9% instramental 
  rate 16%)  well I don't think they are going to be over subscribed since 
  only 34% of women over the whole year birth normally.  Some months none 
  do.
   
  Lisa
   

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Believe what you want Felicity and nice
that you are defending your friend, but the fact is for the last week, I have
had nothing but emails of support and encouragement in private (they think the
conference is a brilliant idea) and this is the first negative response I have
had. I must admit I expected more because people hate change generally and hate
their thoughts and beliefs being challenged. So many have told me that I have
said exactly what they have wanted to for such a very long time, but have been
afraid to. So my thoughts aren’t at all alone in company – I just
wish they would speak up but obviously there is fear there for some reason or
the other. Do you have any better ideas that you honestly think will work to
change things? Joyous Birth is not for everyone, I know several amongst us who
left as they felt attacked and intimidated as they didn’t fit the JB ‘mould’
(is that a good way to change and help?) and of course nor is my own site for
everyone either – people will be attracted to different things, I choose
to try and help change people’s beliefs and not spend all my time in a forum
of like-minded people – this means going outside your comfort zone. As
Henci Goer so bluntly opened with at the last homebirth conference, ‘…We’re
losing.’ I’m not saying to market the whole thing to look ‘cheap’
but to make it more appealing. I mean for goodness sakes, you have Obs hiring
midwives to do their ante-natal appointments now – how much worse does it
have to get? Otherwise, carry on… and those who do want to do things
differently in an attempt to try something which might possibly work, will. 



(I’ve removed my signature especially for you Felicity
to prove to you that I am not in it for the “advertising”). 











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stephen & Felicity
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006
1:39 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



I'm glad you're having such an awakening and
feeling so motivated, Kelly; it's something many of us felt and began to act on
a long time ago - welcome to the club, it's populated by many decades of women
who continue to work hard to heal birth in our culture - which is a long, slow
battle.  We're all pretty aware of the situation and we're all working to
the best of our own capacitys to improve it (some of us at no profit, by
finance or publicity or otherwise, to ourselves).  Some of your suggestions
have been really worthwhile and quite exciting, but I have to admit that
I'm losing my enthusiasm for them amid the sea of self promotional rhetoric
that accompanies them - OzMid is not a promotional tool for BellyBelly and some
posts on this list related to it have felt like advertising Spam in my
InBox.  I have to say I find your assumptions about Janet Fraser in
particular to be offensive.  Do you actually know the totality
of what Janet does in her professional and personal capacity, or the
widespread and rapidly growing effect Joyous Birth is having Australia wide,
both in the mainstream and otherwise? It's nothing like one woman espousing her
own views to the converted, and how utterly rude to dismiss the lifework of one
of your sisters as being such.  Every contribution counts and whilst I
think I understand the point you're trying to make about reaching the
mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to better enable us
to begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - women and
babies are not a market and our integrity is not for sale.  I fear the
overstepping of that invisible line that would transform us into nothing too
different from the Obs and Hospys - big business, marketed to the masses (for
instance, in my personal experience, your forum/site needs to compromise a lot
in order to appeal to the larger membership you enjoy; this results in some
less than optimal advertising and advice, and the sad loss of some wonderful
contributions and items.  Do the ends justify the means? That's a decision
we each need to make, and your contribution is still significant, though not
necessarily in the form I would personally choose for myself).  What is
the point of a message reaching more people if the message has had to be
diluted and perhaps changed in order to get there?  Nothing is simple and
these aspects need to be considered.  It is the various voices of all of
us that shed light on darker areas of the topic; some more straightforward and
uncompromising contributions may seem difficult to hear but they're usually the
most valuable and evidence-based in my experience, and I enjoy them thoroughly.





 





- Original Message
- 







 





 



I don’t think this got through last
night…



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Stephen & Felicity]

I'm glad you're having such 
an awakening and feeling so motivated, Kelly; it's something many of us felt and 
began to act on a long time ago - welcome to the club, it's populated by many 
decades of women who continue to work hard to heal birth in our culture - which 
is a long, slow battle.  We're all pretty aware of the situation and we're 
all working to the best of our own capacitys to improve it (some of us at no 
profit, by finance or publicity or otherwise, to ourselves).  Some of 
your suggestions have been really worthwhile and quite exciting, but I have 
to admit that I'm losing my enthusiasm for them amid the sea of self promotional 
rhetoric that accompanies them - OzMid is not a promotional tool for BellyBelly 
and some posts on this list related to it have felt like advertising Spam in my 
InBox.  I have to say I find your assumptions about Janet Fraser in 
particular to be offensive.  Do you actually know the totality 
of what Janet does in her professional and personal capacity, or the 
widespread and rapidly growing effect Joyous Birth is having Australia wide, 
both in the mainstream and otherwise? It's nothing like one woman espousing her 
own views to the converted, and how utterly rude to dismiss the lifework of one 
of your sisters as being such.  Every contribution counts and whilst I 
think I understand the point you're trying to make about reaching the 
mainstream, it's dangerous to begin tempering our message to better enable us to 
begin "marketing" it to the majority gratuitously - women and babies are not a 
market and our integrity is not for sale.  I fear the overstepping of that 
invisible line that would transform us into nothing too different from the Obs 
and Hospys - big business, marketed to the masses (for instance, in my personal 
experience, your forum/site needs to compromise a lot in order to appeal to the 
larger membership you enjoy; this results in some less than optimal advertising 
and advice, and the sad loss of some wonderful contributions and items.  Do 
the ends justify the means? That's a decision we each need to make, and your 
contribution is still significant, though not necessarily in the form I would 
personally choose for myself).  What is the point of a message reaching 
more people if the message has had to be diluted and perhaps changed in order to 
get there?  Nothing is simple and these aspects need to be 
considered.  It is the various voices of all of us that shed light on 
darker areas of the topic; some more straightforward and uncompromising 
contributions may seem difficult to hear but they're usually the most valuable 
and evidence-based in my experience, and I enjoy them thoroughly.
 
- Original Message - 

   
  
  
  I don’t think this 
  got through last night…
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
  Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Janet Fraser]

Kelly my personal opinion has no 
impact on the mainstream because I choose to mitigate it into support for women 
though that doesn't mean I also support women's choices when they are actively 
dangerous or unthinking. I choose to say little at all in that scenario. In 
a setting like ozmid where hopefully we can talk about stuff like big people and 
not have to play that game, I choose to say what I really think.
I had NO support as a first time 
mother, (A TF from a hb where trauma occurs means I was pretty unpopular in the 
very small and then disparate hb community in Melbourne at that time) so yes, I 
really do "get it" but I chose to go look for it and when there wasn't any, I 
created it in Joyous Birth which now supports all those many women in many ways. 
I'm sorry your own journey made it hard for you to accept support, not all of us 
choose to do it the hard way ; ) My personal opinion isn't going to offend the 
mamas on your forum because I don't post it there.
J

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Ceri & Katrina]

Hi Pauline
there is something called 'Night Nannies", I saw something on the tv about this a few weeks agodon't think they were midwives though

Katrina

On 21/09/2006, at 8:52 PM, Pauline Moore wrote:

Did I see somewhere that midwives (through an agency) were going into women’s homes and helping women with their new babies (through the night), at a cost of course? Sydney I think.

Pauline

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of diane
Sent: 21 September 2006 17:44
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

Absolutely! I know I love to be with my family, but throw in great meals, a spa bath and a midwife to help in an environment where I would do nothing but rest and care for bub, not home where the washing is piling up and the other kids are getting bored. Hmm, why not a luxury midwifery led post natal unit? Surely the health funds would pay for that? B&B with a kids club and a midwife on call, sounds like a lovely babymoon.

Di

 

PS: Kelly I would be keen on the marketing workshops. Just thinking on the three things.
- Original Message -

From: Michelle Windsor 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:23 PM

Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 

I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of all this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something special (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to be a mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What does she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a housewife'.

 

  Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways for the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.

 

Cheers

Michelle

"Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I posted the article on my forums, here is what women think of the idea – be it what you agree with or not – this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579
Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
 Creator,  
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
Importance: High
 
The Caroline flint you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same name.  MM
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
 
Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: , but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.
Vedrana
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
 
The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. We should copy her marketing strategies. MM

Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we have to work on.
 

On Yahoo!7
Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Lynne Staff]

Hi Michelle
That's a nice thought but what it boils down to in 
its simplest form is business development. It's all about getting women out of 
hospital in a couple of days to free up beds. The more beds you free up quickly, 
the more bookings you can take and the more revenue you generate, especially for 
hospitals that have 'mixed women's health' wards. Gynae generates MUCH more 
revenue than maternity - slip in a few 'day cases' or larger 'procedures', or 
more commonly, another Caesar or two with the extra revenue earned by 
babies with 'RDS' admissions (Please excuse the language - I do not mean to 
objectify mothers and babies - just speaking the language of business) to 
nursery and bingo! Muchas doleros! 
 
It is still cheaper to stay in a nice hotel 
than a hospital beds, and in monetary terms, everyone benefits. This would have 
been much more widespread had the logistics of having a suitable 
hotel close by and staffing issues and not got in the way. I am sure this 
package was marketed beautifully. You are right Michelle - women should not have 
to go to a hotel for something special - I agree wholeheartedly with you 
that they should be acknowledged and birth and motherhood celebrated in more 
meaningful and longer lasting ways than a few days stay in a plush 
hotel.
 
Good morning everyone!
Regards, Lynne

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michelle Windsor 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:23 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of all 
  this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something special 
  (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to be a 
  mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our 
  society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What does 
  she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women 
  themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a 
  housewife'.
   
    Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways for 
  the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with 
  excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.
   
  Cheers
  Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  








I posted the 
article on my forums, here is what women think of the idea – be it what you 
agree with or not – this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas 
or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579

Best 
Regards,Kelly 
ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions 
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
Birth Support - 
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:27 
AMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
articleImportance: 
High
 
The Caroline flint 
you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife.  Try putting 
midwife in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high 
profile people with the same name.  MM
 




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana ValcicSent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 
PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article
 
Where can I find 
out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly 
appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, 
but I don’t know if there is something more 
detailed.
Vedrana
 




From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Mary 
    MurphySent: Wednesday, 
September 20, 2006 11:11 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article
 
The woman who best 
markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. 
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM




Kelly says..If we 
want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed 
better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two 
sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know 
what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment 
there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be 
in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we have to work 
on.
  
  
  On Yahoo!7Messenger: 
  Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Pauline Moore]

Did I see somewhere that midwives (through
an agency) were going into women’s homes and helping women with their new
babies (through the night), at a cost of course? Sydney I think.

Pauline

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of diane
Sent: 21 September 2006 17:44
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



Absolutely! I know I love to be with my family, but throw in
great meals, a spa bath and a midwife to help in an environment where I would
do nothing but rest and care for bub, not home where the washing is piling up
and the other kids are getting bored. Hmm, why not a luxury midwifery led post
natal unit? Surely the health funds would pay for that? B&B with a kids
club and a midwife on call, sounds like a lovely babymoon.





Di





 





PS: Kelly I would be keen on the marketing workshops. Just
thinking on the three things.







- Original Message - 





From: Michelle
Windsor 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Thursday,
September 21, 2006 5:23 PM





Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery]
FYI news article





 





I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of
all this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something
special (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to
be a mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our
society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What
does she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women
themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a housewife'.





 





  Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways
for the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with
excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.





 





Cheers





Michelle

"Kelly @
BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







I posted the article on my forums, here is what women think of the
idea – be it what you agree with or not – this is what THEY think
so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579







Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support















From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
8:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article
Importance: High







 





The Caroline flint you have contacted is a politician, not the
midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google search. It is
confusing to have two high profile people with the same name.  MM





 













From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article







 





Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives
in Croatia
would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found
this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.





Vedrana





 













From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article







 





The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM















Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then
it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a
choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they
want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the
moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs
to be in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we
have to work on.





 







On Yahoo!7
Messenger:
Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Pauline Moore]

I agree.  When women have woman centered
care and feel nurtured throughout the pregnancy and birth ie. one to one mid. care
this need is fulfilled.

Pauline

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Michelle Windsor
Sent: 21 September 2006 15:23
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of
all this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something
special (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to
be a mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our
society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What
does she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women
themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a housewife'.





 





  Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways
for the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with
excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.





 





Cheers





Michelle

"Kelly @
BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







I posted the article on my forums, here is what women think of the
idea – be it what you agree with or not – this is what THEY think
so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579







Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support















From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
8:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article
Importance: High







 





The Caroline flint you have contacted is a politician, not the
midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google search. It is
confusing to have two high profile people with the same name.  MM





 













From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article







 





Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives
in Croatia
would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found
this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.





Vedrana





 













From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article







 





The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM















Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then
it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a
choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they
want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the
moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs
to be in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we
have to work on.





 

  







On Yahoo!7
Messenger:
Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[diane]

Absolutely! I know I love to be with my family, but 
throw in great meals, a spa bath and a midwife to help in an environment where I 
would do nothing but rest and care for bub, not home where the washing is piling 
up and the other kids are getting bored. Hmm, why not a luxury midwifery led 
post natal unit? Surely the health funds would pay for that? B&B with a kids 
club and a midwife on call, sounds like a lovely babymoon.
Di
 
PS: Kelly I would be keen on the marketing 
workshops. Just thinking on the three things.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michelle Windsor 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:23 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of all 
  this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something special 
  (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to be a 
  mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our 
  society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What does 
  she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women 
  themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a 
  housewife'.
   
    Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways for 
  the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with 
  excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.
   
  Cheers
  Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  








I posted the 
article on my forums, here is what women think of the idea – be it what you 
agree with or not – this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas 
or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579

Best 
Regards,Kelly 
ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions 
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
Birth Support - 
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:27 
AMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
articleImportance: 
High
 
The Caroline flint 
you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife.  Try putting 
midwife in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high 
profile people with the same name.  MM
 




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana ValcicSent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 
PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article
 
Where can I find 
out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly 
appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, 
but I don’t know if there is something more 
detailed.
Vedrana
 




From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Mary 
MurphySent: Wednesday, 
September 20, 2006 11:11 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article
 
The woman who best 
markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. 
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM




Kelly says..If we 
want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed 
better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two 
sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know 
what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment 
there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be 
in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we have to work 
on.
  
  
  On Yahoo!7Messenger: 
  Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Janet Fraser]

Women can find community though like 
in many forums where friendships and practical support abound, meals are cooked, 
children cared for and all without some unquestioning consumerism coming into 
play. Playgroups, ABA groups, forums, primary schools, birth groups are all good 
places for the kind of support desparately lacking in our lives. Maybe you 
could encourage meal provision among your DDCs?  Denying the 
sacredness of birth and women is what has led us to this silly fake idea that a 
5 star hotel makes up for that lack of respect and support we are accorded in 
pregnancy and birth. It's like the really consumerist baby shower instead 
of a woman-focussed blessingway or motherway. It's really sad that we live in a 
world where care by complete strangers is a treat and one from which our other 
children are removed.
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kelly @ 
  BellyBelly 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:18 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  
  And the 
  whole mindset of having a rest with your other kids somewhere else escapes me. 
  Fark yucko.
  >> I wouldn’t 
  want to be away from my kids, but it’s because the problem lies far deeper 
  than a matter of resting up at a hotel. It’s because far too many mothers do 
  not have support, community and husbands working longer hours every week. They 
  are desperate for a break, nurturing etc and they are not getting it. Need to 
  work on the root cause of this not the symptoms. Big 
  ask.
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
  Birth Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 6:21 
  PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
   
  
  Frankly it 
  appals me that people think it's ok for health funds to cover this crap that 
  should be a luxury we pay for ourselves. What about some equity of health care 
  in this country? How about health funds pay for proper midwifery not bloody 
  hotels. I think it's nauseating. Maybe if only SICK women, as opposed to 
  BIRTHING women, were in hospital beds we wouldn't have a perceived need 
  for luxury frigging hotels as a back up. And the whole mindset of having a 
  rest with your other kids somewhere else escapes me. Fark 
  yucko.
  
  J
  

- Original Message - 


From: Kelly @ 
BellyBelly 

To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 


Sent: 
Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:20 PM

    Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] FYI news article

 
I posted the 
article on my forums, here is what women think of the idea – be it what you 
agree with or not – this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas 
or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579

Best 
Regards,Kelly 
ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions 
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
Birth Support - 
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:27 
AMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
articleImportance: 
High
 
The Caroline flint 
you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife.  Try putting 
midwife in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high 
profile people with the same name.  MM
 




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana ValcicSent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 
PMTo: 
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article
 
Where can I find 
out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly 
appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, 
but I don’t know if there is something more 
detailed.
Vedrana
 




From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Mary 
MurphySent: Wednesday, 
September 20, 2006 11:11 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article
 
The woman who best 
markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. 
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM




Kelly says..If we 
want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed 
better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two 
sides of t

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

I think you couldn’t be more on the
right track Michelle. It’s all a symptom of a major problem which is
going to take something big to fix, and for those who are fortunate to have
that, to understand.



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michelle Windsor
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
5:23 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of
all this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something
special (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to
be a mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our
society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What
does she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women
themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a housewife'.





 





  Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways
for the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with
excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.





 





Cheers





Michelle

"Kelly @
BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







I posted the article on my forums, here is what women think of the
idea – be it what you agree with or not – this is what THEY think
so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579







Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support















From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
8:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article
Importance: High







 





The Caroline flint you have contacted is a politician, not the
midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google search. It is
confusing to have two high profile people with the same name.  MM





 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article







 





Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives
in Croatia
would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found
this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.





Vedrana





 













From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article







 





The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM















Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then
it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a
choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they
want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the
moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs
to be in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we
have to work on.





 

  







On Yahoo!7
Messenger:
Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

And the whole
mindset of having a rest with your other kids somewhere else escapes me. Fark
yucko.

>> I wouldn’t want to be away
from my kids, but it’s because the problem lies far deeper than a matter
of resting up at a hotel. It’s because far too many mothers do not have
support, community and husbands working longer hours every week. They are
desperate for a break, nurturing etc and they are not getting it. Need to work
on the root cause of this not the symptoms. Big ask.



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Janet Fraser
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
6:21 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



Frankly it appals me that people think it's ok for health funds
to cover this crap that should be a luxury we pay for ourselves. What about
some equity of health care in this country? How about health funds pay for
proper midwifery not bloody hotels. I think it's nauseating. Maybe if only
SICK women, as opposed to BIRTHING women, were in hospital beds we
wouldn't have a perceived need for luxury frigging hotels as a back up. And the
whole mindset of having a rest with your other kids somewhere else escapes me.
Fark yucko.





J







- Original
Message - 





From: Kelly @ BellyBelly 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Thursday,
September 21, 2006 12:20 PM





Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] FYI news article





 



I posted the article on my forums, here is
what women think of the idea – be it what you agree with or not –
this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from
this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
8:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article
Importance: High



 

The Caroline flint you have contacted is a
politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google
search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same
name.  MM

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate
info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Michelle Windsor]

I could be on the wrong track here. but perhaps at the bottom of all this is some women's desire (maybe subconsciously) for something special (the 5 star hotel) to acknowledge what an amazing person she is to be a mother and to have birthed a baby. Unlike some other cultures, our society as a whole doesn't seem to value mothers very highly.  "What does she do? Oh she just had kids.."    Even women themselves often identify themselves as 'just a mum' or 'just a housewife'.       Maybe if women were acknowledged and celebrated in other ways for the wonderful work they do in birthing and mothering and provided with excellent support, staying in a 5 star hotel wouldn't be so appealing.     Cheers  Michelle"Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I posted the article on my forums, here is what women think of the idea – be it what you agree with or not – this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:27 AMTo:
 ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news articleImportance: High     The Caroline flint you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same name.  MM     From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana ValcicSent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article     Where can I find out more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.  Vedrana     From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:11 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article     The woman who best markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. We should copy her marketing strategies. MM  Kelly says..If we want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we have to work on. 
		On Yahoo!7 
 
Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Janet Fraser]

Frankly it appals me that people 
think it's ok for health funds to cover this crap that should be a luxury we pay 
for ourselves. What about some equity of health care in this country? How about 
health funds pay for proper midwifery not bloody hotels. I think it's 
nauseating. Maybe if only SICK women, as opposed to BIRTHING women, were in 
hospital beds we wouldn't have a perceived need for luxury frigging hotels as a 
back up. And the whole mindset of having a rest with your other kids somewhere 
else escapes me. Fark yucko.
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kelly @ 
  BellyBelly 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:20 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  
  I posted the article 
  on my forums, here is what women think of the idea – be it what you agree with 
  or not – this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas or learn 
  something from this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579
  
  Best 
  Regards,Kelly 
  ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions 
  From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly 
  Birth Support - 
  http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 21 September 2006 8:27 
  AMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  articleImportance: 
  High
   
  The Caroline flint 
  you have contacted is a politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife 
  in front of the google search. It is confusing to have two high profile people 
  with the same name.  MM
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vedrana ValcicSent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 6:11 
  PMTo: 
  ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
   
  Where can I find out 
  more about her marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate 
  info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm, 
  but I don’t know if there is something more 
  detailed.
  Vedrana
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
  On Behalf Of Mary 
  MurphySent: Wednesday, 
  September 20, 2006 11:11 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
   
  The woman who best 
  markets midwifery is Caroline Flint in the UK. 
  We should copy her marketing strategies. MM
  
  
  
  
  Kelly says..If we 
  want women to accept and value the midwife then it needs to be marketed 
  better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides 
  of the fence with opposing views as it is now. And they want to know what it 
  will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are 
  very many women who do not see birth as something that needs to be in the home 
  or is safe in home – that’s just a fact which we have to work 
  on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Vedrana Valčić]

Thanks for the other link! I haven’t
contacted Carolin Flint, the politician, luckily J. I just forwarded info
to our midwives and I doubt that they were that expedient.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006
12:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article
Importance: High



 

The Caroline flint you have contacted is a
politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google
search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same
name.  MM

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate
info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news
article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

I posted the article on my forums, here is
what women think of the idea – be it what you agree with or not –
this is what THEY think so maybe we can get some ideas or learn something from
this: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=439579



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly
Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2006
8:27 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article
Importance: High



 

The Caroline flint you have contacted is a
politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google
search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same
name.  MM

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate
info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Mary Murphy]

The Caroline flint you have contacted is a
politician, not the midwife.  Try putting midwife in front of the google
search. It is confusing to have two high profile people with the same name.  MM

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate
info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006
11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article








I’d be up for that and I am sure
Pinky would think it’s a brilliant idea too J



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
11:12 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Hi Kelly

I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out some
strategies on ‘mainstreaming’ 1-2-1 mid options and making our
goals palatable ‘out there’.  I know you and Pinky have
contact with some big players and I have often thought we need to maximise ay
exposure (not saying you don’t just would like to natter about it a
bit!).

Kind regards

Justine 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Justine Caines]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article



Hi Kelly

I would really like to talk with you and perhaps Pinky off list to nut out some strategies on ‘mainstreaming’ 1-2-1 mid options and making our goals palatable ‘out there’.  I know you and Pinky have contact with some big players and I have often thought we need to maximise ay exposure (not saying you don’t just would like to natter about it a bit!).

Kind regards

Justine

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Vedrana Valčić]

Thank you J!

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 12:31 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Maybe contact Caroline herself through
that site?  Good luck.  She is a very generous person.  MM

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate
info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article








Great idea Justine. Fight fire with fire I
say. Two weeks of home help sounds brilliant! 



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
1:57 PM
To: OzMid List
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Hi Louise

I agree with you.

What we need to do is capitalise on the PHI stuff though (esp now that
insurance is on the horizon).

There is still no choice in PHI and no reason to have PHI in rural areas.
 But in the advent of a private midwifery expansion this could change
quickly.

Midwives could be working privately providing women with care wherever they chose to birth. We could sell
the reduced cost of the midwifery care with home help for the first 2 weeks (ie
domestic home help).  Heaps of ways to sell this to women.

I would love to talk to you off list re rural issues as someone also
in rural NSW, experiencing similar issues.

Kind regards

Justine Caines
National Policy Co-ordinator
Maternity Coalition Inc
PO Box 625
SCONE NSW  2329
Ph: (02) 65453612
Fax: (02)65482902
Mob: 0408 210273
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.maternitycoalition.org.au

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Mary Murphy]

Maybe contact Caroline herself through
that site?  Good luck.  She is a very generous person.  MM

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Vedrana Valcic
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
6:11 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate
info about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006
11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Vedrana Valčić]

Where can I find out more about her
marketing strategies? Midwives in Croatia would certainly appreciate info
about effective marketing strategies. I found this site: http://www.carolineflint.co.uk/news/news.htm,
but I don’t know if there is something more detailed.

Vedrana

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, September 20,
2006 11:11 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM











Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Mary Murphy]

The woman who best markets midwifery is
Caroline Flint in the UK.
We should copy her marketing strategies. MM







Kelly says..If we want women to accept and
value the midwife then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy
and jazzed up! Not just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing
views as it is now. And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what
THEY will get out of it. At the moment there are very many women who do not see
birth as something that needs to be in the home or is safe in home –
that’s just a fact which we have to work on.

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Justine Caines]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article



Hi Louise

I agree with you.

What we need to do is capitalise on the PHI stuff though (esp now that insurance is on the horizon).

There is still no choice in PHI and no reason to have PHI in rural areas.  But in the advent of a private midwifery expansion this could change quickly.

Midwives could be working privately providing women with care wherever they chose to birth. We could sell the reduced cost of the midwifery care with home help for the first 2 weeks (ie domestic home help).  Heaps of ways to sell this to women.

I would love to talk to you off list re rural issues as someone also in rural NSW, experiencing similar issues.

Kind regards

Justine Caines
National Policy Co-ordinator
Maternity Coalition Inc
PO Box 625
SCONE NSW  2329
Ph: (02) 65453612
Fax: (02)65482902
Mob: 0408 210273
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.maternitycoalition.org.au

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Melissa Singer]

Yes, I liked the phrase "needed a caesarean".  
Just like the common one post NELUSC 'lucky we did that because the uterus was 
starting to thin'  or 'very lucky because the cord was around the neck' 
... u and?
 
Sometime I worry that this culture that had been 
adopted of women 'unable' to birth and obstetric intervention has gone to far to 
stop or reverse.  It is very depressing.  Also I wonder if we have 
turned into a third world country with malnourished women who have rickets in 
their pelvises because of all the C/S for CPD, obstructed labour 
etc!!!
 
Maybe I'm feeling particularly jaded because I did 
night duty last night and haven't slept, but I go to work prepared for 
battle!
 
Melissa

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tania 
  Smallwood 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:30 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  
  Hi Louise and others, 
  
  No eating alive to be 
  done from here J  but I did want 
  to comment on this one…the thing I think I find most offensive about all of 
  this is that it just carries on the charade that the women are paying for, and 
  therefore getting the ‘best’ care.  Women have been conned into thinking 
  that if they pay the highest fees for the PHI, and then pay the biggest gap 
  payment for the ‘best’ obstetrician, go to the ‘best’ hospital, they will have 
  the best, and therefore the safest birth.  This plan just carries that 
  little lie on, by drawing more women into the system, and into this one 
  hospital in particular, when the cold hard reality is that less than one in 
  three of them is going to give birth to their babies through their vagina 
  anyway, and of those one in three, how many are going to be 
  straightforward?  My sources tell me that the c/s rate for primips is up 
  around 70%...so how many women are going to be conned into thinking that they 
  will get this great hotel stay, and then just be glad they were in the 
  hospital to start with, because they ‘needed’ a 
  caesarean…
  Just makes me 
  sad
  Tania
   
  


  

  
  

   

   

   

   
  --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by 
  AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release 
  Date: 19/09/2006
  --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by 
  AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release 
  Date: 19/09/2006

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Exactly Lisa, it’s business! It’s
all about the dollars for them. But for the families, the idea of five star
treatment after birth is very, very appealing. It’s clever marketing isn’t
it? As well as outsourcing for what they don’t have – room. 

You say you can’t see what the
attraction is to a five star hotel, but let me tell you, 95% of women are not
attracted to being at home! We can see the beauty of it, but society can’t
in this present time. We have confidence and they do not. At the moment, women
are highly valuing being in a glamourous hotel being waited on hand and foot,
dinners cooked, cozy accommodation - whereas if they go home, they have to do
it all for themselves or maybe if they are lucky their partner will - especially
if you were a mum like myself and family support was not available – I was
alone, isolated and had a very bad time ended up on AD’s. I would have jumped
at the opportunity to go to a hotel at the time. They feel special and pampered
instead of having to go home, on their own with no support because they don’t
know otherwise and they don’t feel safe at home. Having a midwife to come
and check on them at home after birth really does not even closely compare for
many, many women when they can get this in a hotel as well as have a great time.


If we want women to accept and value the midwife
then it needs to be marketed better, it needs to be trendy and jazzed up! Not
just a choice being two sides of the fence with opposing views as it is now.
And they want to know what it will do for THEM and what THEY will get out of it.
At the moment there are very many women who do not see birth as something that
needs to be in the home or is safe in home – that’s just a fact
which we have to work on.



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006
12:54 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



Hi,  They
could have helped the women much more by providing midwifery care at
home.  They do have a one off visit (because the hospital can access the
fund from the insurance for it) but sending a midwife into the womens home
after discharge to check up on them is more productive and cheaper than this
bizarre system.  There is to be one midwife to 8 women which isn't exactly
great care  and if they need midwifery imput they will not be eligible for
transfer there in the first place.  Every woman has a private room and all
dads can stay overnight at the Ashford hospital so it's not a problem of
sharing with others that have just birthed.





I just can't see
any advantage ( excluding souroundings and mini bar ( as mentioned in the
radio broadcast) ) for a birthing woman and her family to go to a hotel instead
of going to her own home.





 





The biggest
benefactor of this is the private hospital and the insurance
company.   However it's dressed it's not for the benefit of the woman
it's just business.





Lisa





 





- Original
Message - 







From: Grant and Louise McLeod 





To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 





Sent: Wednesday,
September 20, 2006 10:59 AM





Subject: RE:
[ozmidwifery] FYI news article





 




 
  
  
  This is my first
  post for a long time so don't eat me alive!
  
  
  I agree with
  Kelly as the woman has to have a nvb it may help our cause to decrease
  LSCS and IOL?
  
  
  Also - as much as
  we would like all women to have 1-2-1 midwifery care ( sheesh where I work we
  have no ante natal clinic, no midwifery input till labour and the GP's doing
  care don't have dip OB- another story another time), it isn't happening now
  and these women have been scared into PHI by the gov't  (and other
  interest groups) and are using it. All our lobbying isn't going to help this
  woman now , it will help others down the track. 
  
  
  Yes home would be
  better, and 'get on with it', but they would've stayed another few nights in
  hospital anyway, maybe transferring to hotel - with partner and rest of
  family is a compromise, you know - get fed/don't have to clean, and
  lactation and parentcraft guidance with partner there to help too. Isn't
  having dad there more like the real world than a hospital room without him
  but with (insert number!)other mums and bubs?
  
  
  just my thoughts
  
  
   
  
  
  Louise 
  
  
  rural NSW
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  ---Original
  Message---
  
  
   
  
  
  
  From: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  
  
  Date: 09/19/06 21:32:02
  
  
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
  
  
  Subject: RE:
  [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
  
  
  
   
  
  
  To try and extract an

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Tania Smallwood]

Hi Louise and others, 

No eating alive to be done from here J  but I did want to
comment on this one…the thing I think I find most offensive about all of this
is that it just carries on the charade that the women are paying for, and
therefore getting the ‘best’ care.  Women have been conned
into thinking that if they pay the highest fees for the PHI, and then pay the
biggest gap payment for the ‘best’ obstetrician, go to the ‘best’
hospital, they will have the best, and therefore the safest birth.  This
plan just carries that little lie on, by drawing more women into the system,
and into this one hospital in particular, when the cold hard reality is that
less than one in three of them is going to give birth to their babies through
their vagina anyway, and of those one in three, how many are going to be
straightforward?  My sources tell me that the c/s rate for primips is up
around 70%...so how many women are going to be conned into thinking that they
will get this great hotel stay, and then just be glad they were in the hospital
to start with, because they ‘needed’ a caesarean…

Just makes me sad

Tania

 


 
  
  
   

 


 


 

   
  
  
  
 


 








--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 19/09/2006
 

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 19/09/2006
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Jennifairy]

Megan & Larry wrote:


*Bliss at the 5-star maternity hotel*
MICHAEL OWEN
September 19, 2006 12:15am
Article from: _http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/?from=ni_storyhttp_

*THE state's first maternity ward in a luxury hotel will open early 
next month.*
The Hilton Adelaide has finalised a deal with Ashford Private Hospital 
to provide up to eight "deluxe-plus" rooms for new mothers recovering 
from childbirth.


Called "Baby Bliss", the maternity hotel service program will start 
from October 3, with final Health Department approval expected within 
the next week.


Ashford Hospital and the Hilton say public interest in the scheme has 
been "amazing" since it was first floated in July.,


The program, already in operation in two private hospitals in 
Melbourne, aims to cut costs and free up hospital beds. It has won the 
backing of private health fund Mutual Community and national mother 
advocacy group Mother Inc.


Midwives will stay in a wing of the Hilton dedicated to new mums and 
provide around-the-clock care and advice, while obstetricians will 
continue to oversee care during hotel stays. Partners and siblings of 
new mums will be able to stay at the hotel free. Alan Lane, chief 
executive of hospital operations for the Adelaide Community Healthcare 
Alliance, which owns Ashford Hospital, said the option would only be 
available to women who had a normal vaginal delivery at the hospital.


Mother and baby would be transferred to the Hilton two days after 
giving birth.
"Mother and baby remain patients of Ashford Hospital and the 
responsibility of its medical and nursing teams," Mr Lane said.


The option to stay at the hotel for two nights is included in the 
obstetrics cover provided by the patient's private health fund.


Insurance broker Jenny Lynch, 33, is due to give birth to her first 
child in February. "I really like the idea of not being in that 
sterile hospital environment after I've had my baby - a luxury hotel 
room and a bit of pampering sounds like a pretty good way to relax 
after childbirth," Ms Lynch said yesterday.


Instead of calling it "Baby Bliss", it should be called "Bread and 
Circuses".

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses if you dont get it)
Just another attempt to move attention away from the high-cost/poor care 
paradigm.

A teaspoon of sugar makes the medicine go down.

--

Jennifairy Gillett RM

Midwife in Private Practice

Women’s Health Teaching Associate

ITShare volunteer – Santos Project Co-ordinator
ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/
ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals & groups, created 
from donated hardware and opensource software

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Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Lisa Barrett]

Hi,  They could have helped the women much more by 
providing midwifery care at home.  They do have a one off visit (because 
the hospital can access the fund from the insurance for it) but sending a 
midwife into the womens home after discharge to check up on them is more 
productive and cheaper than this bizarre system.  There is to be one 
midwife to 8 women which isn't exactly great care  and if they need 
midwifery imput they will not be eligible for transfer there in the first 
place.  Every woman has a private room and all dads can stay overnight at 
the Ashford hospital so it's not a problem of sharing with others that have just 
birthed.
I just can't see any advantage ( excluding souroundings 
and mini bar ( as mentioned in the radio broadcast) ) for a birthing woman and 
her family to go to a hotel instead of going to her own home.
 
The biggest benefactor of this is the private hospital and the 
insurance company.   However it's dressed it's not for the benefit of 
the woman it's just business.
Lisa
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Grant and 
  Louise McLeod 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:59 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
  article
  
  

  
This is my first post for a long time so don't eat me alive!
I agree with Kelly as the woman has to have a nvb it may help 
our cause to decrease LSCS and IOL?
Also - as much as we would like all women to have 1-2-1 midwifery 
care ( sheesh where I work we have no ante natal clinic, no midwifery 
input till labour and the GP's doing care don't have dip OB- another 
story another time), it isn't happening now and these women have 
been scared into PHI by the gov't  (and other interest groups) and 
are using it. All our lobbying isn't going to help this woman now 
, it will help others down the track. 
Yes home would be better, and 'get on with it', but they would've 
stayed another few nights in hospital anyway, maybe transferring to 
hotel - with partner and rest of family is a compromise, you know - get 
fed/don't have to clean, and lactation and parentcraft guidance 
with partner there to help too. Isn't having dad there more like the 
real world than a hospital room without him but with (insert 
number!)other mums and bubs?
just my thoughts
 
Louise 
rural NSW
 
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Date: 09/19/06 
    21:32:02
        To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] FYI news article
 

To try and 
extract any good of this though, I wonder, if it will encourage more 
women to aim for ‘normal vaginal births’ - as per the article, only 
those who do will be allowed to use the 
program.

Best 
Regards,Kelly 
ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle 
Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth 
Support - 
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support




From: 
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] 
On Behalf Of Megan & 
LarrySent: Tuesday, 19 
September 2006 1:21 PMTo: ozmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] FYI news 
article

Bliss at the 5-star maternity 
hotel MICHAEL OWEN September 19, 2006 12:15am 
Article from: http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/?from=ni_storyhttp 

THE state's first maternity 
ward in a luxury hotel will open early next month. 
The Hilton Adelaide has finalised a deal with Ashford 
Private Hospital to provide up to eight 
"deluxe-plus" rooms for new mothers recovering from childbirth. 

Called "Baby Bliss", the maternity hotel service 
program will start from October 3, with final Health Department approval 
expected within the next week. 
Ashford 
Hospital and the 
Hilton say public interest in the scheme has been "amazing" since it was 
first floated in July., 
The 
program, already in operation in two private hospitals in Melbourne, aims to 
cut costs and free up hospital beds. It has won the backing of private 
health fund Mutual Community and national mother advocacy group Mother 
Inc. 
Midwives will stay in a wing of the Hilton 
dedicated to new mums and provide around-the-clock care and advice, 
while obstetricians will continue to overs

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Grant and Louise McLeod]

This is my first post for a long time so don't eat me alive!
I agree with Kelly as the woman has to have a nvb it may help our cause to decrease LSCS and IOL?
Also - as much as we would like all women to have 1-2-1 midwifery care ( sheesh where I work we have no ante natal clinic, no midwifery input till labour and the GP's doing care don't have dip OB- another story another time), it isn't happening now and these women have been scared into PHI by the gov't  (and other interest groups) and are using it. All our lobbying isn't going to help this woman now , it will help others down the track. 
Yes home would be better, and 'get on with it', but they would've stayed another few nights in hospital anyway, maybe transferring to hotel - with partner and rest of family is a compromise, you know - get fed/don't have to clean, and lactation and parentcraft guidance with partner there to help too. Isn't having dad there more like the real world than a hospital room without him but with (insert number!)other mums and bubs?
just my thoughts
 
Louise 
rural NSW
 
 
---Original Message---
 

From: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Date: 09/19/06 21:32:02
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
 

To try and extract any good of this though, I wonder, if it will encourage more women to aim for ‘normal vaginal births’ - as per the article, only those who do will be allowed to use the program.

Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support




From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Megan & LarrySent: Tuesday, 19 September 2006 1:21 PMTo: ozmidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
 
Bliss at the 5-star maternity hotel MICHAEL OWEN September 19, 2006 12:15am Article from: http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/?from=ni_storyhttp 
THE state's first maternity ward in a luxury hotel will open early next month. The Hilton Adelaide has finalised a deal with Ashford Private Hospital to provide up to eight "deluxe-plus" rooms for new mothers recovering from childbirth. 
Called "Baby Bliss", the maternity hotel service program will start from October 3, with final Health Department approval expected within the next week. 
Ashford Hospital and the Hilton say public interest in the scheme has been "amazing" since it was first floated in July., 
The program, already in operation in two private hospitals in Melbourne, aims to cut costs and free up hospital beds. It has won the backing of private health fund Mutual Community and national mother advocacy group Mother Inc. 
Midwives will stay in a wing of the Hilton dedicated to new mums and provide around-the-clock care and advice, while obstetricians will continue to oversee care during hotel stays. Partners and siblings of new mums will be able to stay at the hotel free. Alan Lane, chief executive of hospital operations for the Adelaide Community Healthcare Alliance, which owns Ashford Hospital, said the option would only be available to women who had a normal vaginal delivery at the hospital. 
Mother and baby would be transferred to the Hilton two days after giving birth. "Mother and baby remain patients of Ashford Hospital and the responsibility of its medical and nursing teams," Mr Lane said. 
The option to stay at the hotel for two nights is included in the obstetrics cover provided by the patient's private health fund. 
Insurance broker Jenny Lynch, 33, is due to give birth to her first child in February. "I really like the idea of not being in that sterile hospital environment after I've had my baby - a luxury hotel room and a bit of pampering sounds like a pretty good way to relax after childbirth," Ms Lynch said yesterday.
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kelly @ BellyBelly]

Title: FYI news article








To try and extract any good of this
though, I wonder, if it will encourage more women to aim for ‘normal
vaginal births’ - as per the article, only those who do will be allowed
to use the program.



Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Creator, BellyBelly.com.au 
Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood
BellyBelly Birth Support
- http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support











From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Megan & Larry
Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2006
1:21 PM
To: ozmidwifery
Subject: [ozmidwifery] FYI news
article



 

Bliss at the 5-star maternity hotel 
MICHAEL OWEN 
September 19, 2006 12:15am 
Article from: http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/?from=ni_storyhttp


THE state's first maternity ward in a luxury hotel will open
early next month. 
The Hilton Adelaide has finalised a deal with Ashford Private
 Hospital to provide up to
eight "deluxe-plus" rooms for new mothers recovering from childbirth.


Called
"Baby Bliss", the maternity hotel service program will start from
October 3, with final Health Department approval expected within the next week.


Ashford
 Hospital and the Hilton
say public interest in the scheme has been "amazing" since it was
first floated in July., 

The
program, already in operation in two private hospitals in Melbourne, aims to cut costs and free up
hospital beds. It has won the backing of private health fund Mutual Community
and national mother advocacy group Mother Inc. 

Midwives
will stay in a wing of the Hilton dedicated to new mums and provide
around-the-clock care and advice, while obstetricians will continue to oversee
care during hotel stays. Partners and siblings of new mums will be able to stay
at the hotel free. Alan Lane,
chief executive of hospital operations for the Adelaide Community Healthcare
Alliance, which owns Ashford
 Hospital, said the option
would only be available to women who had a normal vaginal delivery at the
hospital. 

Mother
and baby would be transferred to the Hilton two days after giving birth. 
"Mother and baby remain patients of Ashford Hospital
and the responsibility of its medical and nursing teams," Mr Lane said. 

The
option to stay at the hotel for two nights is included in the obstetrics cover
provided by the patient's private health fund. 

Insurance
broker Jenny Lynch, 33, is due to give birth to her first child in February.
"I really like the idea of not being in that sterile hospital environment
after I've had my baby - a luxury hotel room and a bit of pampering sounds like
a pretty good way to relax after childbirth," Ms Lynch said yesterday.

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[robertaquinn]

"I really like the idea of not being in that sterile hospital environment 
after I've had my baby - a luxury hotel room and a bit of pampering sounds 
like a pretty good way to relax after childbirth," Ms Lynch said yesterday.

Being at home sounds even better to me!


Quoting Megan & Larry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Bliss at the 5-star maternity hotel
> MICHAEL OWEN
> September 19, 2006 12:15am
> Article from: http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/?from=ni_storyhttp
> 
> THE state's first maternity ward in a luxury hotel will open early next
> month.
> The Hilton Adelaide has finalised a deal with Ashford Private Hospital to
> provide up to eight "deluxe-plus" rooms for new mothers recovering from
> childbirth. 
> Called "Baby Bliss", the maternity hotel service program will start from
> October 3, with final Health Department approval expected within the next
> week. 
> Ashford Hospital and the Hilton say public interest in the scheme has been
> "amazing" since it was first floated in July., 
> The program, already in operation in two private hospitals in Melbourne,
> aims to cut costs and free up hospital beds. It has won the backing of
> private health fund Mutual Community and national mother advocacy group
> Mother Inc. 
> Midwives will stay in a wing of the Hilton dedicated to new mums and provide
> around-the-clock care and advice, while obstetricians will continue to
> oversee care during hotel stays. Partners and siblings of new mums will be
> able to stay at the hotel free. Alan Lane, chief executive of hospital
> operations for the Adelaide Community Healthcare Alliance, which owns
> Ashford Hospital, said the option would only be available to women who had a
> normal vaginal delivery at the hospital. 
> Mother and baby would be transferred to the Hilton two days after giving
> birth. 
> "Mother and baby remain patients of Ashford Hospital and the responsibility
> of its medical and nursing teams," Mr Lane said. 
> The option to stay at the hotel for two nights is included in the obstetrics
> cover provided by the patient's private health fund. 
> Insurance broker Jenny Lynch, 33, is due to give birth to her first child in
> February. "I really like the idea of not being in that sterile hospital
> environment after I've had my baby - a luxury hotel room and a bit of
> pampering sounds like a pretty good way to relax after childbirth," Ms Lynch
> said yesterday.
> 
> 


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RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Kate and/or Nick]

Title: FYI news article








I particularly liked the comment that “a
caesarean is like abdominal surgery”.

 

Kate

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lisa Barrett
Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2006
3:58 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI
news article



 



I heard ABC radio covering this today.  All I can say
is I felt sick.





Lisa





 





 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article

[Lisa Barrett]

Title: FYI news article



I heard ABC radio covering this today.  All I 
can say is I felt sick.
Lisa
 
 

[ozmidwifery] fyi formula

[Jennifairy]

 BBC NEWS
Baby milk scare widens in Europe
*Swiss-based food giant Nestle has ordered the recall of baby milk from 
France, Spain, Portugal and Italy after tests suggested chemical 
contamination. *


Police in Italy, the largest market of the four, have begun seizing 30m 
litres of the baby milk from shops and depots.


The alarm was raised after traces of a chemical involved in the printing 
process were found in samples in Italy.


Nestle denies the chemical poses a risk to health but has recalled the 
cartons, with an expiry date of September 2006.


The scare began in June when a sample of liquid baby milk produced by 
Nestle showed traces of isopropyl thioxanthone, a photographic chemical 
known by the initials ITX.



	* This decision was taken as an extreme precautionary measure to 
reassure consumers *

Nestle statement

The chemical is used in the printing process of the milk cartons, but 
appears to have made it into the baby milk itself.


The Italian authorities have said the chemical may be toxic.

A Nestle statement on the recall said: "This decision was taken as an 
extreme precautionary measure to reassure consumers.


"Nestle believes that the level of ITX measured in the tested produce 
does not represent a health risk."


Nestle spokesman Francois-Xavier Perroud said only 2m litres had been 
recalled in Italy, less than the 30m ordered to be seized by the 
authorities.


A company spokesman in Switzerland said a new packaging process had been 
put in place to prevent contamination.


* Negative light *

The BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Geneva says contaminated baby milk is a food 
producer's worst nightmare and perhaps most of all for Nestle, which has 
attracted controversy over its baby milk in the past.


For years Nestle has had a serious image problem because of its 
promotion of powdered baby milk over breast feeding in the developing 
world, where many new mothers have neither the money to buy the formula 
nor the clean water to prepare it, our correspondent says.


Contaminated milk is a different issue, she says, but it still puts one 
of Nestle's top products in a negative light once again.


Nestle has said it does not expect the recall to affect company-wide 
results - but with a product as sensitive as baby milk that is perhaps a 
little optimistic, our correspondent adds.


Italy's forestry police - which is responsible for agriculture - 
initially seized 2m litres of milk for infants on 9 November.


The wider seizure was ordered after subsequent tests showed all Nestle 
baby milk cartons with an expiry date of September 2006 were 
contaminated, the Italian news agency Ansa reports.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/4459520.stm

Published: 2005/11/22 16:57:35 GMT

© BBC MMV
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[ozmidwifery] FYI: Miscarriage trigger discovered

[Megan & Larry]

Title: FYI:  Miscarriage trigger discovered






Miscarriage trigger discovered

By Clara Pirani23-11-2005 

From: The Australian 

RESEARCHERS have discovered a way of predicting which women are likely to suffer miscarriage - a finding that could ultimately lead to a treatment to prevent it.

A study of almost 400 women found those who miscarried had a significantly lower level of a protein that regulates the growth and development of the placenta. 

About 20 per cent of pregnancies end in miscarriage, while 5per cent of women will suffer two miscarriages or more. 

Scientists from the Monash Institute of Medical Research and Sydney's St Vincent's Hospital, who identified the link last year, have confirmed the protein damages the pregnancy. 

"We took a blood test from 400 women between six and 12 weeks of pregnancy," said Associate Professor Euan Wallace, director of Monash's centre for women's health. 

"About 200 women had a miscarriage and about 200 women had a normal pregnancy. 

"We found levels of the protein were profoundly lower - about 70 per cent lower - in women who had a miscarriage." 

Associate Professor Wallace said the lack of protein clearly played a role in miscarriage. 

"In very early pregnancy, the placenta invades the lining of the uterus and establishes the connection between the mother and the baby, and allows the mother to transfer oxygen and nutrients to the baby," he said. 

"That begins very early on, even before the woman knows she's pregnant, and it is fundamentally critical to the success of the pregnancy. 

"Production of this protein, by both the placenta and by the lining of the uterus, regulates how well the placenta invades the lining." 

Associate Professor Wallace said levels of the protein, called Macrophage Inhibitory Cytokine 1, or MIC1, started to drop four to six weeks before the miscarriage. 

"That suggests that the low levels weren't just a reflection of a failing pregnancy, but may fundamentally contribute to the miscarriage." 

Associate Professor Wallace said the finding could not be used as a conclusive test for miscarriage, because some women who delivered healthy babies also had a reduced level of the protein. 

However, he said women who miscarried had "had much lower levels of the protein". 

The research team will next try to determine how they can manipulate the protein to prevent miscarriage. 

"One of the things that has hampered research into miscarriage in the past is that we've never been able to identify well ahead of the miscarriage who was at risk, and now we can." 

[ozmidwifery] fyi

[Lyle Burgoyne]

Good morning,
Just an email to let people know there will be an excellent conference at John 
Flynn Hospital on the Gold Coast on the 26/11/2005. It is entitled "When only 
the Breast will Do". It will be run by Robyn Noble who runs Bayside Breast 
feeding clinic.For those of you who don"t know Robyn her knowledge of 
breastfeeding and breastfeeding problems and there solutions is fantastic .It 
is a full day seminar with lunch and morning and afternoon tea for $80 .If you 
are interested in attending phone John Flynn birthing unit on 075598 9040
Have a really good day
Lyle

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[ozmidwifery] FYI - UK hysterectomy site

[Janet Fraser]

Warning: graphic and 
disturbing birth stories resulting in emergency hysterectomy. Useful IMO given 
our own outrageously rising rate.
J
http://www.a-little-wish.org.uk/
 
Joyous Birth Home Birth 
Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
 
Accessing Artemis Birth 
Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI: News article for QLD maternity

[Honey Acharya]

Hoping for the same, where's the money for the Townsville Birth Centre?
Honey
- Original Message - 
From: "Judy Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI: News article for QLD maternity


> Hope they save some for up north here.
> Judy
>
> --- Megan & Larry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > This was on news.com,
> > Megan
> >
> > Extra $52m for maternity services
> > From: AAP
> >
> > October 31, 2005
> > QUEENSLAND has announced an extra $52 million for maternity
> > services in the
> > state's public hospitals.
> > Premier Peter Beattie said the Government would provide an
> > extra $8.63
> > million for maternity services in 2005/06 and the same amount
> > for each of
> > the next five years to meet increasing demand.
> > "On average about 100 babies are born in our public hospitals
> > every day,
> > which can also stretch maternity services in some areas," Mr
> > Beattie said.
> > "The $52 million funding boost starts immediately and is
> > targeted to enable
> > health districts to provide more maternity services and better
> > access to
> > them."
> > The funding included recurrent allocations of $2.2 million a
> > year to the
> > Redcliffe-Caboolture district, $1.63 million to the Gold
> > Coast, $1.5 million
> > to the Bayside district based around Redcliffe hospital, and
> > $1.5 million to
> > the Logan-Beaudesert area.
> > The money would provide additional beds, staff, equipment and
> > support
> > services.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> 
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Listen to over 20 online radio stations and watch the latest music videos
on Yahoo! Music.
> http://au.launch.yahoo.com
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


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Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI: News article for QLD maternity

[Judy Chapman]

Hope they save some for up north here.
Judy

--- Megan & Larry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This was on news.com, 
> Megan
> 
> Extra $52m for maternity services
> From: AAP 
> 
> October 31, 2005 
> QUEENSLAND has announced an extra $52 million for maternity
> services in the
> state's public hospitals.
> Premier Peter Beattie said the Government would provide an
> extra $8.63
> million for maternity services in 2005/06 and the same amount
> for each of
> the next five years to meet increasing demand. 
> "On average about 100 babies are born in our public hospitals
> every day,
> which can also stretch maternity services in some areas," Mr
> Beattie said. 
> "The $52 million funding boost starts immediately and is
> targeted to enable
> health districts to provide more maternity services and better
> access to
> them." 
> The funding included recurrent allocations of $2.2 million a
> year to the
> Redcliffe-Caboolture district, $1.63 million to the Gold
> Coast, $1.5 million
> to the Bayside district based around Redcliffe hospital, and
> $1.5 million to
> the Logan-Beaudesert area. 
> The money would provide additional beds, staff, equipment and
> support
> services. 
> 
> 




 
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Yahoo! Music. 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI: News article for QLD maternity

[B & G]

Title: Message



Fantastic there is our funding for North Lakes project!! We have been so 
pressured for several years in this Redcliffe-Caboolture 
district.
Gold 
Coast Birth centre looks like it is now funded and even Beaudesert looks like it 
might have maternity services restored via Logan Hospital.
Cheers 
Barb

  
   
  Extra $52m for maternity 
  services From: AAP 
  October 31, 2005 QUEENSLAND has announced an extra $52 million for 
  maternity services in the state's public hospitals. Premier Peter Beattie said the Government would provide 
  an extra $8.63 million for maternity services in 2005/06 and the same amount 
  for each of the next five years to meet increasing demand. 
  "On average about 100 babies are born in our 
  public hospitals every day, which can also stretch maternity services in some 
  areas," Mr Beattie said. 
  "The $52 million funding boost starts 
  immediately and is targeted to enable health districts to provide more 
  maternity services and better access to them." 
  The funding included recurrent allocations of 
  $2.2 million a year to the Redcliffe-Caboolture district, $1.63 million to the 
  Gold Coast, $1.5 million to the Bayside district based around Redcliffe 
  hospital, and $1.5 million to the Logan-Beaudesert area.The money would 
  provide additional beds, staff, equipment and support services. 

[ozmidwifery] FYI: News article for QLD maternity

[Megan & Larry]

Title: FYI: News article for QLD maternity






This was on news.com, 

Megan


Extra $52m for maternity services

From: AAP 


October 31, 2005 

QUEENSLAND has announced an extra $52 million for maternity services in the state's public hospitals.

Premier Peter Beattie said the Government would provide an extra $8.63 million for maternity services in 2005/06 and the same amount for each of the next five years to meet increasing demand. 

"On average about 100 babies are born in our public hospitals every day, which can also stretch maternity services in some areas," Mr Beattie said. 

"The $52 million funding boost starts immediately and is targeted to enable health districts to provide more maternity services and better access to them." 

The funding included recurrent allocations of $2.2 million a year to the Redcliffe-Caboolture district, $1.63 million to the Gold Coast, $1.5 million to the Bayside district based around Redcliffe hospital, and $1.5 million to the Logan-Beaudesert area.
The money would provide additional beds, staff, equipment and support services. 

Re: [ozmidwifery] fyi

[cath nolan]

I went to a neonatal stabilisation update recently run by the wants team. 
The bottom line is that this is for seriously unwell babies , not run of the 
mill sick babies so to speak. I asked the same question and it is stilol 
very much the practise to keep our babies warm as we do. It is only a select 
group of babis that this is appropriate for ie suspected IVH etc, Cath.
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] fyi



So, do we keep the baby warm or do we uncover it and let it cool?  MM


 Cooling blankets may reduce newborn brain damage

BY RONI RABIN
STAFF WRITER

October 12, 2005, 8:22 PM EDT

Lowering a newborn's body temperature after birth reduces risk of brain
damage and death for babies who are deprived of oxygen before or during
delivery, a new study has found.

Within hours of being born, newborns in the study were placed on cooling
blankets that lowered their body temperature to about 92 degrees. The
blankets, which had water circulating through them, were set at 41
degrees. After three days, the babies were gradually warmed to a normal
body temperature, which usually ranges from 99.7 degrees to 99.3 degrees.

The study of 208 infants at 15 medical centers was reported by
researchers in the Neonatal Research Network of the National Institute
of Child Health and Human Development, and appears today in the New
England Journal of Medicine.

"This is a very exciting, landmark study," said lead author Dr. Seetha
Shankaran, head of the division of neonatal-perinatal medicine at Wayne
State University School of Medicine in Detroit.

But the sponsors also urged caution, saying further research is
necessary and warning that most hospitals should not attempt to the
technique without training of personnel.

The babies must be closely monitored and strict protocols must be
followed because temperature fluctuations could be harmful, the study
authors said.

One in every 1,000 to 2,000 babies born suffers from hypoxic ischemic
encephalopathy, which occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen or
blood in the hours before birth or during labor and delivery. These
babies are at markedly increased risk of disability, including blindness
and cerebral palsy, as well as death.

Babies who received the cooling treatment fared better than babies
provided with standard treatment. Of the 208 babies in the study, 102
infants were randomly assigned to undergo the experimental cooling while
106 received standard care.

When the babies were examined at 18 to 22 months, 62 percent of the
babies who received the standard treatment had died or developed a mild
or severe disability, compared to 44 percent of those who had the
cooling treatment. When all three outcomes -- death, moderate disability
and severe disability -- were pooled, findings were statistically
significant.

Among those who were cooled, 24 died, compared with 38 deaths in the
control group.

Fifteen infants who had the experimental treatment developed cerebral
palsy and five went blind, compared with 19 and nine, respectively, of
thosee who had standard care.

Infants who received the cooling treatment also scored better on mental
and physical development measures, the authors said. The children will
be followed until they are 6 or 7 years old.

Several other studies investigating the benefits of cooling treatment
are under way. Researchers at Schneider Children's Hospital in New Hyde
Park have participated in a study that used a cooling "cap" to mitigate
brain damage in newborns similarly afflicted by oxygen deprivation, and
other studies are under way in Australia and England.

"They key thing is that the cooling, whether by blanket or by cap, helps
some babies," said Dr. Andrew Steele, a neonatologist at Schneider
Children's Hospital involved in the cooling cap study.

Shankaran explained that when the brain is deprived of oxygen and blood,
a cascade of abnormal events occurs, including formation of toxins and
amino acids that damage brain cells. Cooling appears to work by reducing
the energy of the brain itself, she said, thereby decreasing the
abnormal toxins and actually reducing the swelling of brain cells.

"It is a very promising, evolving therapy, but there's a lot more work
to be done, alot of questions still to be answered," said Dr. Ann Stark,
chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on the Fetus and
Newborn Health.

Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] fyi

[Honey Acharya]

I think it is for only babies in these situations that have been identified
as clearly having been deprived of oxygen during birth. But it makes me
wonder about all these babies that are taken away from mum's chest
(particulary while she is being sewn up after a c-sect) because the baby
will get too cold!! It might make for good argument to let babies stay skin
to skin and let mum's body temp do the warming and cooling thing. I'm not a
midwife yet so don't understand as well as the rest of you perhaps. But
that's my humble opinion.
Honey
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] fyi


> So, do we keep the baby warm or do we uncover it and let it cool?  MM
>
>
>   Cooling blankets may reduce newborn brain damage
>
> BY RONI RABIN
> STAFF WRITER
>
> October 12, 2005, 8:22 PM EDT
>
> Lowering a newborn's body temperature after birth reduces risk of brain
> damage and death for babies who are deprived of oxygen before or during
> delivery, a new study has found.
>
> Within hours of being born, newborns in the study were placed on cooling
> blankets that lowered their body temperature to about 92 degrees. The
> blankets, which had water circulating through them, were set at 41
> degrees. After three days, the babies were gradually warmed to a normal
> body temperature, which usually ranges from 99.7 degrees to 99.3 degrees.
>
> The study of 208 infants at 15 medical centers was reported by
> researchers in the Neonatal Research Network of the National Institute
> of Child Health and Human Development, and appears today in the New
> England Journal of Medicine.
>
> "This is a very exciting, landmark study," said lead author Dr. Seetha
> Shankaran, head of the division of neonatal-perinatal medicine at Wayne
> State University School of Medicine in Detroit.
>
> But the sponsors also urged caution, saying further research is
> necessary and warning that most hospitals should not attempt to the
> technique without training of personnel.
>
> The babies must be closely monitored and strict protocols must be
> followed because temperature fluctuations could be harmful, the study
> authors said.
>
> One in every 1,000 to 2,000 babies born suffers from hypoxic ischemic
> encephalopathy, which occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen or
> blood in the hours before birth or during labor and delivery. These
> babies are at markedly increased risk of disability, including blindness
> and cerebral palsy, as well as death.
>
> Babies who received the cooling treatment fared better than babies
> provided with standard treatment. Of the 208 babies in the study, 102
> infants were randomly assigned to undergo the experimental cooling while
> 106 received standard care.
>
> When the babies were examined at 18 to 22 months, 62 percent of the
> babies who received the standard treatment had died or developed a mild
> or severe disability, compared to 44 percent of those who had the
> cooling treatment. When all three outcomes -- death, moderate disability
> and severe disability -- were pooled, findings were statistically
> significant.
>
> Among those who were cooled, 24 died, compared with 38 deaths in the
> control group.
>
> Fifteen infants who had the experimental treatment developed cerebral
> palsy and five went blind, compared with 19 and nine, respectively, of
> thosee who had standard care.
>
> Infants who received the cooling treatment also scored better on mental
> and physical development measures, the authors said. The children will
> be followed until they are 6 or 7 years old.
>
> Several other studies investigating the benefits of cooling treatment
> are under way. Researchers at Schneider Children's Hospital in New Hyde
> Park have participated in a study that used a cooling "cap" to mitigate
> brain damage in newborns similarly afflicted by oxygen deprivation, and
> other studies are under way in Australia and England.
>
> "They key thing is that the cooling, whether by blanket or by cap, helps
> some babies," said Dr. Andrew Steele, a neonatologist at Schneider
> Children's Hospital involved in the cooling cap study.
>
> Shankaran explained that when the brain is deprived of oxygen and blood,
> a cascade of abnormal events occurs, including formation of toxins and
> amino acids that damage brain cells. Cooling appears to work by reducing
> the energy of the brain itself, she said, thereby decreasing the
> abnormal toxins and actually reducing the swelling of brain cells.
>
> "It is a very promising, evolving therapy, but there's a lot more work
> to be don

RE: [ozmidwifery] fyi

[Mary Murphy]

So, do we keep the baby warm or do we uncover it and let it cool?  MM


  Cooling blankets may reduce newborn brain damage

BY RONI RABIN
STAFF WRITER

October 12, 2005, 8:22 PM EDT

Lowering a newborn's body temperature after birth reduces risk of brain 
damage and death for babies who are deprived of oxygen before or during 
delivery, a new study has found.

Within hours of being born, newborns in the study were placed on cooling 
blankets that lowered their body temperature to about 92 degrees. The 
blankets, which had water circulating through them, were set at 41 
degrees. After three days, the babies were gradually warmed to a normal 
body temperature, which usually ranges from 99.7 degrees to 99.3 degrees.

The study of 208 infants at 15 medical centers was reported by 
researchers in the Neonatal Research Network of the National Institute 
of Child Health and Human Development, and appears today in the New 
England Journal of Medicine.

"This is a very exciting, landmark study," said lead author Dr. Seetha 
Shankaran, head of the division of neonatal-perinatal medicine at Wayne 
State University School of Medicine in Detroit.

But the sponsors also urged caution, saying further research is 
necessary and warning that most hospitals should not attempt to the 
technique without training of personnel.

The babies must be closely monitored and strict protocols must be 
followed because temperature fluctuations could be harmful, the study 
authors said.

One in every 1,000 to 2,000 babies born suffers from hypoxic ischemic 
encephalopathy, which occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen or 
blood in the hours before birth or during labor and delivery. These 
babies are at markedly increased risk of disability, including blindness 
and cerebral palsy, as well as death.

Babies who received the cooling treatment fared better than babies 
provided with standard treatment. Of the 208 babies in the study, 102 
infants were randomly assigned to undergo the experimental cooling while 
106 received standard care.

When the babies were examined at 18 to 22 months, 62 percent of the 
babies who received the standard treatment had died or developed a mild 
or severe disability, compared to 44 percent of those who had the 
cooling treatment. When all three outcomes -- death, moderate disability 
and severe disability -- were pooled, findings were statistically 
significant.

Among those who were cooled, 24 died, compared with 38 deaths in the 
control group.

Fifteen infants who had the experimental treatment developed cerebral 
palsy and five went blind, compared with 19 and nine, respectively, of 
thosee who had standard care.

Infants who received the cooling treatment also scored better on mental 
and physical development measures, the authors said. The children will 
be followed until they are 6 or 7 years old.

Several other studies investigating the benefits of cooling treatment 
are under way. Researchers at Schneider Children's Hospital in New Hyde 
Park have participated in a study that used a cooling "cap" to mitigate 
brain damage in newborns similarly afflicted by oxygen deprivation, and 
other studies are under way in Australia and England.

"They key thing is that the cooling, whether by blanket or by cap, helps 
some babies," said Dr. Andrew Steele, a neonatologist at Schneider 
Children's Hospital involved in the cooling cap study.

Shankaran explained that when the brain is deprived of oxygen and blood, 
a cascade of abnormal events occurs, including formation of toxins and 
amino acids that damage brain cells. Cooling appears to work by reducing 
the energy of the brain itself, she said, thereby decreasing the 
abnormal toxins and actually reducing the swelling of brain cells.

"It is a very promising, evolving therapy, but there's a lot more work 
to be done, alot of questions still to be answered," said Dr. Ann Stark, 
chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on the Fetus and 
Newborn Health.

Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] fyi

[Tania Smallwood]

I think they have been conducting a trial of this at FMC here in Adelaide...

Tania


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifairy
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 5:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] fyi


  Cooling blankets may reduce newborn brain damage

BY RONI RABIN
STAFF WRITER

October 12, 2005, 8:22 PM EDT

Lowering a newborn's body temperature after birth reduces risk of brain 
damage and death for babies who are deprived of oxygen before or during 
delivery, a new study has found.

Within hours of being born, newborns in the study were placed on cooling 
blankets that lowered their body temperature to about 92 degrees. The 
blankets, which had water circulating through them, were set at 41 
degrees. After three days, the babies were gradually warmed to a normal 
body temperature, which usually ranges from 99.7 degrees to 99.3 degrees.

The study of 208 infants at 15 medical centers was reported by 
researchers in the Neonatal Research Network of the National Institute 
of Child Health and Human Development, and appears today in the New 
England Journal of Medicine.

"This is a very exciting, landmark study," said lead author Dr. Seetha 
Shankaran, head of the division of neonatal-perinatal medicine at Wayne 
State University School of Medicine in Detroit.

But the sponsors also urged caution, saying further research is 
necessary and warning that most hospitals should not attempt to the 
technique without training of personnel.

The babies must be closely monitored and strict protocols must be 
followed because temperature fluctuations could be harmful, the study 
authors said.

One in every 1,000 to 2,000 babies born suffers from hypoxic ischemic 
encephalopathy, which occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen or 
blood in the hours before birth or during labor and delivery. These 
babies are at markedly increased risk of disability, including blindness 
and cerebral palsy, as well as death.

Babies who received the cooling treatment fared better than babies 
provided with standard treatment. Of the 208 babies in the study, 102 
infants were randomly assigned to undergo the experimental cooling while 
106 received standard care.

When the babies were examined at 18 to 22 months, 62 percent of the 
babies who received the standard treatment had died or developed a mild 
or severe disability, compared to 44 percent of those who had the 
cooling treatment. When all three outcomes -- death, moderate disability 
and severe disability -- were pooled, findings were statistically 
significant.

Among those who were cooled, 24 died, compared with 38 deaths in the 
control group.

Fifteen infants who had the experimental treatment developed cerebral 
palsy and five went blind, compared with 19 and nine, respectively, of 
thosee who had standard care.

Infants who received the cooling treatment also scored better on mental 
and physical development measures, the authors said. The children will 
be followed until they are 6 or 7 years old.

Several other studies investigating the benefits of cooling treatment 
are under way. Researchers at Schneider Children's Hospital in New Hyde 
Park have participated in a study that used a cooling "cap" to mitigate 
brain damage in newborns similarly afflicted by oxygen deprivation, and 
other studies are under way in Australia and England.

"They key thing is that the cooling, whether by blanket or by cap, helps 
some babies," said Dr. Andrew Steele, a neonatologist at Schneider 
Children's Hospital involved in the cooling cap study.

Shankaran explained that when the brain is deprived of oxygen and blood, 
a cascade of abnormal events occurs, including formation of toxins and 
amino acids that damage brain cells. Cooling appears to work by reducing 
the energy of the brain itself, she said, thereby decreasing the 
abnormal toxins and actually reducing the swelling of brain cells.

"It is a very promising, evolving therapy, but there's a lot more work 
to be done, alot of questions still to be answered," said Dr. Ann Stark, 
chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on the Fetus and 
Newborn Health.

Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

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[ozmidwifery] fyi

[Jennifairy]

 Cooling blankets may reduce newborn brain damage

BY RONI RABIN
STAFF WRITER

October 12, 2005, 8:22 PM EDT

Lowering a newborn's body temperature after birth reduces risk of brain 
damage and death for babies who are deprived of oxygen before or during 
delivery, a new study has found.


Within hours of being born, newborns in the study were placed on cooling 
blankets that lowered their body temperature to about 92 degrees. The 
blankets, which had water circulating through them, were set at 41 
degrees. After three days, the babies were gradually warmed to a normal 
body temperature, which usually ranges from 99.7 degrees to 99.3 degrees.


The study of 208 infants at 15 medical centers was reported by 
researchers in the Neonatal Research Network of the National Institute 
of Child Health and Human Development, and appears today in the New 
England Journal of Medicine.


"This is a very exciting, landmark study," said lead author Dr. Seetha 
Shankaran, head of the division of neonatal-perinatal medicine at Wayne 
State University School of Medicine in Detroit.


But the sponsors also urged caution, saying further research is 
necessary and warning that most hospitals should not attempt to the 
technique without training of personnel.


The babies must be closely monitored and strict protocols must be 
followed because temperature fluctuations could be harmful, the study 
authors said.


One in every 1,000 to 2,000 babies born suffers from hypoxic ischemic 
encephalopathy, which occurs when the brain doesn't get enough oxygen or 
blood in the hours before birth or during labor and delivery. These 
babies are at markedly increased risk of disability, including blindness 
and cerebral palsy, as well as death.


Babies who received the cooling treatment fared better than babies 
provided with standard treatment. Of the 208 babies in the study, 102 
infants were randomly assigned to undergo the experimental cooling while 
106 received standard care.


When the babies were examined at 18 to 22 months, 62 percent of the 
babies who received the standard treatment had died or developed a mild 
or severe disability, compared to 44 percent of those who had the 
cooling treatment. When all three outcomes -- death, moderate disability 
and severe disability -- were pooled, findings were statistically 
significant.


Among those who were cooled, 24 died, compared with 38 deaths in the 
control group.


Fifteen infants who had the experimental treatment developed cerebral 
palsy and five went blind, compared with 19 and nine, respectively, of 
thosee who had standard care.


Infants who received the cooling treatment also scored better on mental 
and physical development measures, the authors said. The children will 
be followed until they are 6 or 7 years old.


Several other studies investigating the benefits of cooling treatment 
are under way. Researchers at Schneider Children's Hospital in New Hyde 
Park have participated in a study that used a cooling "cap" to mitigate 
brain damage in newborns similarly afflicted by oxygen deprivation, and 
other studies are under way in Australia and England.


"They key thing is that the cooling, whether by blanket or by cap, helps 
some babies," said Dr. Andrew Steele, a neonatologist at Schneider 
Children's Hospital involved in the cooling cap study.


Shankaran explained that when the brain is deprived of oxygen and blood, 
a cascade of abnormal events occurs, including formation of toxins and 
amino acids that damage brain cells. Cooling appears to work by reducing 
the energy of the brain itself, she said, thereby decreasing the 
abnormal toxins and actually reducing the swelling of brain cells.


"It is a very promising, evolving therapy, but there's a lot more work 
to be done, alot of questions still to be answered," said Dr. Ann Stark, 
chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on the Fetus and 
Newborn Health.


Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI

[birth]

Thanks for posting this, Mary.  Again, I find these blurbs about research rather
confusing.  In this study, I wonder if they are talking about spontaneous onset
of birth prior to 40 wga, or induction?  I can't believe induced births just
prior to 40 wga result in more successful VBACs??  It's like trying to open up a
bicycle lock with only 3 of the 7 numbers in the combination.  Unfortunately,
there are some who would read this blurb that way and then try to convince VBAC
women to induce in order to increase their chances.  What is meant by "major
complications".   I consider a repeat cesarean a "major complication" but they
seem to see it as a "failure".  The body of the article seems to be at odds with
the title.  Gloria

Quoting Mary Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> VBAC risks not elevated post term
> Source: Obstetrics & Gynecology 2005; 106: 700-6
> 
> Comparing the risk of failure and major complications after a vaginal birth
> after cesarean when performed before and after the estimated date of
> delivery. 
> 
> Vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC) can be safely attempted in women beyond
> 40 weeks gestation, but the likelihood of success is reduced, say
> researchers. 
> 
> "Although VBAC data have been examined in different patient populations and
> clinical scenarios, little has been published about VBAC attempts in women
> whose pregnancy has reached or extended past the estimated date of
> delivery," note Kara Coassolo (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania,
> Philadelphia, USA) and colleagues. 
> 
> For the current study, the team used retrospective data for 11,587 women who
> attempted VBAC at one of 17 hospitals over a 5-year period. They found that
> cesareans VBAC in women who were beyond 40 weeks' gestation were
> significantly more likely to fail than those carried out earlier. However,
> the risk of uterine rupture and overall morbidity was not significantly
> increased.
> 
> Based on their research, Coassolo et al say practitioners "can counsel women
> that the chances of VBAC success are decreased in gestations that continue
> beyond the estimated date of delivery compared with those before 40 weeks."
> However, patients can be reassured that the success rate is still quite
> good, at 70 percent, and that the risks are not increased "simply because
> the due date has passed."
> 
> Posted: 5 October 2005
> 
>  
> 
> 


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[ozmidwifery] FYI

[Mary Murphy]

VBAC risks not elevated post term
Source: Obstetrics
& Gynecology 2005; 106: 700-6

Comparing
the risk of failure and major complications after a vaginal birth after
cesarean when performed before and after the estimated date of delivery.


Vaginal birth
after cesarean (VBAC) can be safely attempted in women beyond 40 weeks
gestation, but the likelihood of success is reduced, say researchers. 

"Although
VBAC data have been examined in different patient populations and clinical
scenarios, little has been published about VBAC attempts in women whose
pregnancy has reached or extended past the estimated date of delivery,"
note Kara Coassolo (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,
USA) and colleagues. 

For the
current study, the team used retrospective data for 11,587 women who attempted
VBAC at one of 17 hospitals over a 5-year period. They found that cesareans
VBAC in women who were beyond 40 weeks' gestation were significantly more
likely to fail than those carried out earlier. However, the risk of uterine
rupture and overall morbidity was not significantly increased.

Based on
their research, Coassolo et al say practitioners "can counsel women that
the chances of VBAC success are decreased in gestations that continue beyond
the estimated date of delivery compared with those before 40 weeks."
However, patients can be reassured that the success rate is still quite good,
at 70 percent, and that the risks are not increased "simply because the
due date has passed."

Posted: 5
October 2005

 

Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI: birth on Holland's "Big Brother"

[Ceri & Katrina]

whatever will they think of next??


On 28/08/2005, at 10:05 PM, Megan & Larry wrote:

Big Brother baby 
From: Reuters 
From correspondents in Amsterdam
 August 28, 2005 
DUTCH authorities are investigating plans by the producers of the Big Brother reality television show to include a pregnant contestant who will give birth on the show.

Talpa, the new television station launched earlier this month by the billionaire creator of Big Brother John de Mol, will broadcast a new series from Sunday in which a contestant is due to give birth six weeks into the show.

A spokeswoman for the social affairs and labor ministry confirmed a report in De Telegraaf daily on Saturday that inspectors were examining a request by Big Brother producers for the newborn baby to be allowed to appear on the program.

The Netherlands has strict rules governing young children acting on television, in films or on the stage. 
The ruling Christian Democrats have condemned the idea of a birth on the live show, but the 27-year-old pregnant contestant identified only as Tanja defended the idea.

"I think that my child will be proud of it later," she told De Telegraaf. 
The show's director Hummie van der Tonnekreek said Tanja would be well looked after in the Big Brother house, where a group of 12 strangers are locked in together and gradually voted out by the audience.

"She will get the maximum attention and care," Van der Tonnekreek said. 
Versions of the show first aired in the Netherlands in 1999 have since been produced in dozens of countries worldwide. 

[ozmidwifery] FYI: birth on Holland's "Big Brother"

[Megan & Larry]

Title: FYI: birth on Holland's "Big Brother"






Big Brother baby

From: Reuters 

From correspondents in Amsterdam
August 28, 2005 

DUTCH authorities are investigating plans by the producers of the Big Brother reality television show to include a pregnant contestant who will give birth on the show.

Talpa, the new television station launched earlier this month by the billionaire creator of Big Brother John de Mol, will broadcast a new series from Sunday in which a contestant is due to give birth six weeks into the show. 

A spokeswoman for the social affairs and labor ministry confirmed a report in De Telegraaf daily on Saturday that inspectors were examining a request by Big Brother producers for the newborn baby to be allowed to appear on the program. 

The Netherlands has strict rules governing young children acting on television, in films or on the stage. 

The ruling Christian Democrats have condemned the idea of a birth on the live show, but the 27-year-old pregnant contestant identified only as Tanja defended the idea. 

"I think that my child will be proud of it later," she told De Telegraaf. 

The show's director Hummie van der Tonnekreek said Tanja would be well looked after in the Big Brother house, where a group of 12 strangers are locked in together and gradually voted out by the audience. 

"She will get the maximum attention and care," Van der Tonnekreek said. 

Versions of the show first aired in the Netherlands in 1999 have since been produced in dozens of countries worldwide. 

[ozmidwifery] fyi

[Jennifairy]

To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to 
http://www.guardian.co.uk

Further pregnancy less likely after caesarean
James Meikle, health correspondent
Tuesday August 02 2005
The Guardian


Women who have their baby by caesarean section are less likely to have another 
pregnancy, a 17-year study following 25,370 women revealed yesterday.

Researchers also found that the average amount of time between births was 
greater for those who had undergone caesareans than those who gave birth 
naturally.

More than one in five women in England have caesareans and the rate is rising, 
provoking concern over risks to women and babies.

The latest study, based on the Aberdeen maternity hospital between 1980 and 
1997 and published in the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, was 
not able to determine whether the women's fertility was being compromised by 
having a caesarean, by suffering tubal damage for instance, or whether women 
who had undergone the experience just did not want to do so again.

However, lead researcher Jill Mollison, of Aberdeen University's medical school, 
highlighted the importance of the findings against the background of rising caesarean 
rates. "Future studies should focus on exploring whether failure to conceive is due 
to voluntary or involuntary factors and compare this across different modes of 
delivery."

Peter Bowen-Simpson, from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, said: 
"Those involved in the delivery of obstetric care should be aware of the association 
and consider its implications when making a decision to perform a caesarean section."

The study found 66.9% of women who had a caesarean went on to have another 
pregnancy, against 71.6% who had instrumental vaginal delivery and 73.9% who 
had a spontaneous vaginal birth.

The average length of time between pregnancies in the three groups was 36.3 
months, 31.8 months and 30.4 months.

Women who had a caesarean were also more likely to have an ectopic pregnancy 
the next time, a dangerous complication where the fertilised egg becomes 
implanted outside the womb.

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited

cheers
jennifairy



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[ozmidwifery] FYI

[leanne wynne]

AMA Says Ultrasound In-Utero "Portraits" Are Bad Idea


Reuters Health Information 2005. © 2005 Reuters Ltd.
Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or 
similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of 
Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the 
content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. Reuters and the 
Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters 
group of companies around the world.




By M. Mary Conroy

CHICAGO (Reuters Health) Jun 21 - Keepsake ultrasound "portraits" of fetuses 
are not medically appropriate and should be discouraged, the American 
Medical Association's House of Delegates stated at its annual meeting here 
this week.


Recent advances in ultrasound technology, including 3-D image capacity, have 
made the "pre-birth" portraits popular, which prompted the Missouri 
delegation to the House of Delegates to ask the AMA to go public about the 
risks of the practice.


The Missouri doctors said the ultrasound portraits are often done by 
unqualified technicians in whose hands ultrasound, which is generally a safe 
procedure, may have unanticipated risks.


The new AMA policy directs the organization to adopt current Food and Drug 
Administration policy on the use of non-diagnostic fetal ultrasound. The FDA 
policy states that "keepsake" fetal videos are an unapproved use of a 
medical device. In approving the policy, the House of Delegates also 
directed AMA leaders to lobby the FDA to enforce its prohibition of 
unapproved, non-medical uses of the technology.


During a reference committee hearing "testimony was overwhelmingly in 
support of this resolution calling for the responsible use of diagnostic 
ultrasound during pregnancy," said Dr. Daniel van Heeckeren, who chaired the 
reference committee.


Dr. Van Heeckeren, a thoracic surgeon at University Hospitals, Cleveland, 
Ohio, added that "fetal ultrasonography is considered safe when properly 
used. And although there is no evidence to suggest that exposing a fetus to 
unnecessary ultrasound is harmful, strong support was voiced endorsing its 
use only where there is a clear medical benefit to the patients."


He also noted that use of diagnostic ultrasound for "keepsake" purposes puts 
the clinician at risk of potential legal liability since this imaging is 
often performed without parents receiving the standard counseling that 
normally precedes ultrasound examinations.


Dr. Marilyn Laughead, of Scottsdale, Arizona, and a delegate form the 
American Institute of Ultrasound in Medicine, said, "Although there is no 
confirmed biological effect of ultrasound known today, there may be some 
effect identified in the future. For that reason ultrasound should be used 
only for medically indicated purposes."



Leanne Wynne
Midwife in charge of "Women's Business"
Mildura Aboriginal Health Service  Mob 0418 371862


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[ozmidwifery] FYI

[leanne wynne]

Hi All,
I thought the comment at the end of this article about "caregiver bias" very 
relevant.

Leanne.

Short stature independently predicts cesareans
Issue 13: 27 Jun 2005
Source: European Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology and Reproductive Biology 
2005; 120: 175-8



Maternal short stature is an independent risk factor for cesarean section, 
according to new findings. The researchers report a significantly higher 
rate of cesareans among women less than 155 cm in height compared with 
taller women, even after controlling for labor dystocia.



Specialists from the Soroka University Medical Center in Beer-Sheva, Israel, 
analyzed the records of all 159,210 deliveries that occurred at the center 
between 1988 and 2002.


In 5,822 of these deliveries (3.65 percent), the mother was of short 
stature, defined as being less than 155 cm in height. These women were 
almost twice as likely to have a cesarean section compared with taller women 
(21.3 percent versus 11.9 percent, respectively).


Women of short stature also had significantly higher rates of previous 
delivery by cesarean, intrauterine growth restriction, premature rupture of 
membranes, failed induction, labor dystocia, malpresentations, and 
cephalopelvic disproportion.


However, the researchers found no significant differences in perinatal 
complications such as low birth weight, meconium-stained amniotic fluid, 
perinatal mortality, and low 5-minute Apgar scores.


Significant and independent
Importantly, the association between short stature and cesareans persisted 
even after controlling for other potentially confounding factors, including 
dystocia. Writing in the European Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology and 
Reproductive Biology, the researchers report that short stature is an 
independent risk factor for cesarean section, with an odds ratio of 1.7.


They say the higher rate of deliveries by cesarean among short women “can be 
partially attributed to caregiver bias. Whenever the attending obstetrician 
realizes that the patient’s stature is short, even mild deviations from the 
‘normal’ labor curves lead to cesarean section.”


They suggest that the findings should prompt obstetricians to “reconsider 
their attitudes towards cesarean deliveries in mothers <155 cm”, and call 
for “an objective evaluation of the benefits and risks” of performing 
cesareans in such women.


The researchers say further prospective studies investigating indications 
for cesareans need to be conducted in order to help inform decisions.




Leanne Wynne
Midwife in charge of "Women's Business"
Mildura Aboriginal Health Service  Mob 0418 371862


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[ozmidwifery] FYI

[gresch]

Childbirth becoming too clinical
By LAURA ANDERSON
18oct04 "The Advertiser"
THE "medicalisation" of birth has diminished women's satisfaction with their 
experience of childbirth, a study has found.

Australian women are less likely to die during pregnancy or childbirth, but the result 
has been decreased satisfaction with the childbirth process, a study published today 
in the Medical Journal of Australia shows.

Co-author Professor Caroline de Costa, from James Cook University in Queensland, said 
main sources of dissatisfaction were perceptions of a lack of involvement in 
decision-making, "obstetric interventions" and "unhelpful caregivers".

"With one in four children being born by caesarean section, many women . . . are 
understandably seeking a more `natural' environment for uncomplicated births," she 
said.

"Although maternal satisfaction is important, it should not be promoted at the expense 
of the health of mothers and babies. 

"Sometimes intervention is necessary for the safe arrival of a healthy infant."

She said while home births and water births "strongly promote maternal satisfaction", 
the safety of the baby was difficult to evaluate because of a lack of data.

Australian Medical Association state president Dr William Heddle agreed and said when 
it came to childbirth, "the welfare of the mother and the infant is of critical 
importance".

"Whether that detracts from the emotional experience of the mother at the time of the 
birth, probably has to take second place," he said.

The Women's and Children's Hospital will deliver about 500 babies this year through 
its midwifery group practice.

The practice allows mothers at low medical risk to have the same midwife throughout 
their pregnancy, who delivers their baby.

Alicia Crettenden delivered her son Thomas in the bath at the WCH birthing centre on 
October 4.

"I had both midwives throughout the whole thing and it was really good," she said. 





This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au


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Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI

[Mary Murphy]

I only sent this email once.  There are some gremlins on the line 
somewhere.  MM
 

[ozmidwifery] FYI

[Mary Murphy]

  
  
 
20040205-1* Giving birth and being born in 
  the water. Experience after 1325 waterbirths - Italian 
  Journal of Gynaecology and Obstetrics , vol 15, no 3-4, 2003, pp 
  113-120 Thoeni A; Oberhuber A; Moroder 
  L - (2003)
  
 
Objective: The aim of our study has been to point out 
  the advantages of waterbirth. IN this respect 1325 consecutive waterbirths 
  have been analysed and then compared with two different delivery 
  positions. Methods: We compared 1325 waterbirths, 515 deliveries in bed 
  and 237 on the delivery stool over the last 7 years. We evaluated duration 
  of labour, perineal trauma, arterial cord blood pH and postpartum maternal 
  haemoglobin levels. We analysed 200 water samples taken from the pool 
  after filling and after delivery, in order to examine pathogenous 
  micro-organisms and the possibilities of neonatal infections. Results: A 
  significant reduction in the duration (first stage) of labour (380 vs. 473 
  minutes) and episiotomy rate (0.45% for waterbirth, 17.2% for the bed, 7% 
  for the delivery stool) was noticed for the primiparae who delivered in 
  water in comparison with those who chose other delivery positions. 
  Nevertheless, the percentage of perineal trauma did not increase (23% in 
  all groups). There was little difference in the duration of the second 
  stage (33 vs. 37 minutes), and the levels of the arterial cord blood pH or 
  postpartum maternal haemoglobin remained unchanged. No woman who delivered 
  in water required analgesics. Infections after water births do not occur 
  more frequently than after traditional births. Conclusion: Our results 
  show that waterbirth has a big advantage if compared with traditional 
  delivery methods. It is associated with a significantly shorter first 
  stage of labour, lower episiotomy rate and reduced analgesic requirements 
  in comparison with other delivery positions. Provided that the women are 
  selected appropriately and hygiene rules are respected, waterbirth is safe 
  both for the mother and the neonate. (16 references) 
  (Author