Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Denise Hynd]

Dear rita
Your response highlights the fact that much of what is called education is
really indoctrination, as the root meaning of Education is to come from with
in and most women humans want to connect particularly with their babies. and
all they need in our culture is permission to contradict, ignore those @You
will spoil them with picking them up@
stuff
Denise
- Original Message -
From: "Deliverywoman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"@dodo.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth..


Talking about the "education" of families to encourage touching the baby
etc.  I will never forget the words of an educator in relation to
childbirth, stating that the experience will begin with DE-EDUCATION, I
found this to be a very powerful word as it describes that the current
'trend' of education and what has been 'learnt' from parent's and peer's and
professionals is not neccessarily the 'ONLY' way.

The process of de-education is to demystfy and rectify previous information
'learnt' in the area of childbirth, and to RE-EDUCATE with the families with
al the knowledge to allow them to make informed choices regarding their
birth experience, if it be touching their baby during birth, different
positions, waiting for cord to stop pulsing before cutting etc. etc.

--
Yours in Childbirth and with the Love of Friendship
Rita
«¤?¤ÐÈ£ÏVÊR¥·WÓMÄѤ?¤»

Mother of David - 13, Haydie - 11, Alysha - 10 and Baby Tyler 8 months
Registered Nurse, Student Midwife (currently in hiatus - due to
injury), Aspiring CBE and Doula



- Original Message 
From: Ruth Cantrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth..
Date: 10/02/03 13:39

>
>
> >
> > .just as dangerous is the assumption that women are not
interested in
> > touching their babies during birth
>
> yes I agree absolutely true. Previous comments  originate from  having
seen
> many women refuse to touch themselves and  being rather adamant  they
don't
> want o look or touch when gently invited/informed/encouraged.
>
> >and to suggest that women need "education"
> > to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the woman to
touch
> > her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth
process and
> > gives her purpose often when energies are waning 
>
> Yes I have seen and experienced those  aspects as well and whole heartedly
> agree.
>
> Unfortunately it is a sad fact that for many years now it has been/is the
> perception of women and that at birth the baby is handeled by someone else
> and washed suctioned, taken away, wrapped  etc etc before the mother gets
to
> hold and even if she does, the baby is most often wrapped. (Even in  the
> documentary made of Steve Erwin and their first baby's birth -p which
> surprised me since they proclaim to be so in touch with nature.)  Much
> education is needed to change the damage done in the past which robs women
> of confidence in simply holding their baby after birth. I am sure if more
> women touched during the birth process and touched and picked up their
> babies at the moment of birth the positive effects would spiral much like
> throwing a pebble in the water.
>
> > Yours in reforming midwifery
>
> I applaud all effort in reforming. Education in some from is required to
> change  socialized belief and attitude of women who conceive and give
birth
> and of those who support and assist.
>
>
> Ruth
>
>
> -
> Ruth Cantrill
> Griffith University
> NATHAN QLD   4111
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au>; to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Ruth Cantrill]

Well said, thank you Rita. that about sums it up nicely

Ruth C

> From: "Deliverywoman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:29:29 +1000
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"@dodo.com.au
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth..
> 
> Talking about the "education" of families to encourage touching the baby
> etc.  I will never forget the words of an educator in relation to
> childbirth, stating that the experience will begin with DE-EDUCATION, I
> found this to be a very powerful word as it describes that the current
> 'trend' of education and what has been 'learnt' from parent's and peer's and
> professionals is not neccessarily the 'ONLY' way.
> 
> The process of de-education is to demystfy and rectify previous information
> 'learnt' in the area of childbirth, and to RE-EDUCATE with the families with
> al the knowledge to allow them to make informed choices regarding their
> birth experience, if it be touching their baby during birth, different
> positions, waiting for cord to stop pulsing before cutting etc. etc.
> 
> --
> Yours in Childbirth and with the Love of Friendship
> Rita
> «€∫€‹È£ÏVÊR¥·WÓMÄÑ€∫€»
> 
> Mother of David ˆ 13, Haydie ˆ 11, Alysha ˆ 10 and Baby Tyler 8 months
> Registered Nurse, Student Midwife (currently in hiatus ˆ due to
> injury), Aspiring CBE and Doula
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: Ruth Cantrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth..
> Date: 10/02/03 13:39
> 
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > .just as dangerous is the assumption that women are not
> interested in
>> > touching their babies during birth
>> 
>> yes I agree absolutely true. Previous comments  originate from  having
> seen
>> many women refuse to touch themselves and  being rather adamant  they
> don't
>> want o look or touch when gently invited/informed/encouraged.
>> 
>> >and to suggest that women need "education"
>> > to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the woman to
> touch
>> > her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth
> process and
>> > gives her purpose often when energies are waning 
>> 
>> Yes I have seen and experienced those  aspects as well and whole heartedly
>> agree.
>> 
>> Unfortunately it is a sad fact that for many years now it has been/is the
>> perception of women and that at birth the baby is handeled by someone else
>> and washed suctioned, taken away, wrapped  etc etc before the mother gets
> to
>> hold and even if she does, the baby is most often wrapped. (Even in  the
>> documentary made of Steve Erwin and their first baby's birth -p which
>> surprised me since they proclaim to be so in touch with nature.)  Much
>> education is needed to change the damage done in the past which robs women
>> of confidence in simply holding their baby after birth. I am sure if more
>> women touched during the birth process and touched and picked up their
>> babies at the moment of birth the positive effects would spiral much like
>> throwing a pebble in the water.
>> 
>> > Yours in reforming midwifery
>> 
>> I applaud all effort in reforming. Education in some from is required to
>> change  socialized belief and attitude of women who conceive and give
> birth
>> and of those who support and assist.
>> 
>> 
>> Ruth
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Ruth Cantrill
>> Griffith University
>> NATHAN QLD   4111
>> 
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
>> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au>; to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> 

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Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Deliverywoman]

Talking about the "education" of families to encourage touching the baby
etc.  I will never forget the words of an educator in relation to
childbirth, stating that the experience will begin with DE-EDUCATION, I
found this to be a very powerful word as it describes that the current
'trend' of education and what has been 'learnt' from parent's and peer's and
professionals is not neccessarily the 'ONLY' way.

The process of de-education is to demystfy and rectify previous information
'learnt' in the area of childbirth, and to RE-EDUCATE with the families with
al the knowledge to allow them to make informed choices regarding their
birth experience, if it be touching their baby during birth, different
positions, waiting for cord to stop pulsing before cutting etc. etc.

--
Yours in Childbirth and with the Love of Friendship
Rita
«¤†¤ÐÈ£ÏVÊR¥·WÓMÄѤ†¤»

Mother of David – 13, Haydie – 11, Alysha – 10 and Baby Tyler 8 months
Registered Nurse, Student Midwife (currently in hiatus – due to
injury), Aspiring CBE and Doula



- Original Message 
From: Ruth Cantrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth..
Date: 10/02/03 13:39

>
>
> >
> > .just as dangerous is the assumption that women are not
interested in
> > touching their babies during birth
>
> yes I agree absolutely true. Previous comments  originate from  having
seen
> many women refuse to touch themselves and  being rather adamant  they
don't
> want o look or touch when gently invited/informed/encouraged.
>
> >and to suggest that women need "education"
> > to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the woman to
touch
> > her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth
process and
> > gives her purpose often when energies are waning 
>
> Yes I have seen and experienced those  aspects as well and whole heartedly
> agree.
>
> Unfortunately it is a sad fact that for many years now it has been/is the
> perception of women and that at birth the baby is handeled by someone else
> and washed suctioned, taken away, wrapped  etc etc before the mother gets
to
> hold and even if she does, the baby is most often wrapped. (Even in  the
> documentary made of Steve Erwin and their first baby's birth -p which
> surprised me since they proclaim to be so in touch with nature.)  Much
> education is needed to change the damage done in the past which robs women
> of confidence in simply holding their baby after birth. I am sure if more
> women touched during the birth process and touched and picked up their
> babies at the moment of birth the positive effects would spiral much like
> throwing a pebble in the water.
>
> > Yours in reforming midwifery
>
> I applaud all effort in reforming. Education in some from is required to
> change  socialized belief and attitude of women who conceive and give
birth
> and of those who support and assist.
>
>
> Ruth
>
>
> -
> Ruth Cantrill
> Griffith University
> NATHAN QLD   4111
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au>; to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
>
>
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Ruth Cantrill]

> 
> .just as dangerous is the assumption that women are not interested in
> touching their babies during birth

yes I agree absolutely true. Previous comments  originate from  having seen
many women refuse to touch themselves and  being rather adamant  they don't
want o look or touch when gently invited/informed/encouraged.

>and to suggest that women need "education"
> to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the woman to touch
> her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth process and
> gives her purpose often when energies are waning 

Yes I have seen and experienced those  aspects as well and whole heartedly
agree.

Unfortunately it is a sad fact that for many years now it has been/is the
perception of women and that at birth the baby is handeled by someone else
and washed suctioned, taken away, wrapped  etc etc before the mother gets to
hold and even if she does, the baby is most often wrapped. (Even in  the
documentary made of Steve Erwin and their first baby's birth -p which
surprised me since they proclaim to be so in touch with nature.)  Much
education is needed to change the damage done in the past which robs women
of confidence in simply holding their baby after birth. I am sure if more
women touched during the birth process and touched and picked up their
babies at the moment of birth the positive effects would spiral much like
throwing a pebble in the water.

> Yours in reforming midwifery

I applaud all effort in reforming. Education in some from is required to
change  socialized belief and attitude of women who conceive and give birth
and of those who support and assist.


Ruth


-
Ruth Cantrill
Griffith University
NATHAN QLD   4111

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Jodie Miller]

Couldn't help but respond to this one - Tina just described my two very 
empowering waterbirths!  One where I was urged to feel my boy baby's head 
just prior to birth.  The other where I negotiated with my midwife that if 
the scenario seemed possible in the moment, I would like to catch my girl 
baby (or my husband had the honour if I couldn't).  I cherish that she 
reminded me to do so as I never felt so strong in my life as in that moment.  
Thanks Tania at the RWH Brisbane!  Here's to the third time around!


Jodie  


On Sunday 09 February 2003 12:43, Lois Wattis wrote:
> Well said, Tina.  I have had the same experiences as you describe. 
> Occasionally I've encountered a woman who just does not want to feel her
> baby's head when encouraged to "find" it there.  Many women kind of need
> 'permission' to do what they perceive to be the midwife's job at the moment
> of birth.  This can be discussed before the birth, or during the labour,
> and with preparation their response is spontaneous.  It can also be the Dad
> that catches the baby, and that is a special bonding event as well.  Love
> Lois
>
>   - Original Message -
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:00 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth..
>
>
>   In a message dated 9/02/03 9:57:29 AM AUS Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
>
> how many women are willing to touch their baby during the process of
> birth and immediately at the moment of birthing???
>
> i can see that with much pre education this may be possible. However if
> it is to happen the way you idealistically suggest then perhaps one
> criteria for  in  water birthing will need to be that  women are fully
> educated willing and cooperative in  handling her baby  at the moment of
> birth.
>
> we do have to be careful in the asumptions we make about how women may
> feel and be able to respond at the various stages of birthing.
>
> Ruth
>
>
>
>   Hello Ruth and all
>
>   just as dangerous is the assumption that women are not interested in
> touching their babies during birth and to suggest that women need
> "education" to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the
> woman to touch her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the
> birth process and gives her purpose often when energies are waning for
> me its about giving the power to the woman to tell me what's going on for
> her without the midwife having to be invasive...eg: sticking my fingers
> in...or parting labiawatching perineum's etc...If I feel the need to
> 'know what's going on' all I often do is just gently ask the woman to tell
> me what she is feeling...If she has no words to describe it, or says "I
> don't know"...then I gently encourage her to put her own fingers inside and
> tell me what she feels. In my experience women rarely refuse to do this
> when invited to do so and personally I think its how we ask and the context
> in which we ask it .I have no words to describe the sheer look of
> amazement and wonder when the woman declares she can feel their babies head
> just inside.the power, renewed energy and a strong sense of purpose
> that this gives women is fantasticand birth usually follows very
> quicklytouch can be really important to if at crowning the women needs
> some reassurance that all is fine and she is not "splitting
> apart"encouraging her to feel for herself that she is safe again is
> very reaffirming for her and she often then lets go and the babe emerges
> beautifullyoften into her own hand if she desiresthis is when women
> are truly empowered in birth.and this empowers us as midwives
> too
>
>   Yours in reforming midwifery
>   Tina Pettigrew
>
>   B Mid Student
>   Australian Catholic University Melb.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Lois Wattis]

Well said, Tina.  I have had the same experiences 
as you describe.  Occasionally I've encountered a woman who just 
does not want to feel her baby's head when encouraged to "find" it 
there.  Many women kind of need 'permission' to do what they perceive 
to be the midwife's job at the moment of birth.  This can be discussed 
before the birth, or during the labour, and with preparation their response is 
spontaneous.  It can also be the Dad that catches the baby, and that is a 
special bonding event as well.  Love Lois
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:00 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes 
  at birth..
  In a message dated 9/02/03 9:57:29 AM AUS Eastern Daylight 
  Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  how many women are willing to touch their baby during the 
process of birthand immediately at the moment of birthing???i 
can see that with much pre education this may be possible. However if 
itis to happen the way you idealistically suggest then perhaps one 
criteriafor  in  water birthing will need to be that  
women are fully educatedwilling and cooperative in  handling her 
baby  at the moment of birth.we do have to be careful in the 
asumptions we make about how women may feeland be able to respond at the 
various stages of birthing.RuthHello Ruth and alljust as dangerous is the assumption that women are 
  not interested in touching their babies during birth and to suggest that women 
  need "education" to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the 
  woman to touch her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth 
  process and gives her purpose often when energies are waning for me its 
  about giving the power to the woman to tell me what's going on for her without 
  the midwife having to be invasive...eg: sticking my fingers in...or parting 
  labiawatching perineum's etc...If I feel the need to 'know what's going 
  on' all I often do is just gently ask the woman to tell me what she is 
  feeling...If she has no words to describe it, or says "I don't know"...then I 
  gently encourage her to put her own fingers inside and tell me what she feels. 
  In my experience women rarely refuse to do this when invited to do so and 
  personally I think its how we ask and the context in which we ask it 
  .I have no words to describe the sheer look of amazement and wonder 
  when the woman declares she can feel their babies head just inside.the 
  power, renewed energy and a strong sense of purpose that this gives women is 
  fantasticand birth usually follows very quicklytouch can be really 
  important to if at crowning the women needs some reassurance that all is fine 
  and she is not "splitting apart"encouraging her to feel for herself that 
  she is safe again is very reaffirming for her and she often then lets go and 
  the babe emerges beautifullyoften into her own hand if she desiresthis 
  is when women are truly empowered in birth.and this empowers us as 
  midwives too Yours in reforming midwiferyTina 
  PettigrewB Mid StudentAustralian Catholic University Melb. 
  

Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[Mary Murphy]

 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:00 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes 
  at birth..
  Wonderfully expressed Tina.  My thoughts and 
  experiences exactly.just as dangerous is the assumption that women are 
  not interested in touching their babies during birth and to suggest that women 
  need "education" to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the 
  woman to touch her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth 
  process and gives her purpose often when energies are waning for me its 
  about giving the power to the woman to tell me what's going on for her without 
  the midwife having to be invasive...eg: sticking my fingers in...or parting 
  labiawatching perineum's etc...If I feel the need to 'know what's going 
  on' all I often do is just gently ask the woman to tell me what she is 
  feeling...If she has no words to describe it, or says "I don't know"...then I 
  gently encourage her to put her own fingers inside and tell me what she feels. 
  In my experience women rarely refuse to do this when invited to do so and 
  personally I think its how we ask and the context in which we ask it 
  .I have no words to describe the sheer look of amazement and wonder 
  when the woman declares she can feel their babies head just inside.the 
  power, renewed energy and a strong sense of purpose that this gives women is 
  fantasticand birth usually follows very quicklytouch can be really 
  important to if at crowning the women needs some reassurance that all is fine 
  and she is not "splitting apart"encouraging her to feel for herself that 
  she is safe again is very reaffirming for her and she often then lets go and 
  the babe emerges beautifullyoften into her own hand if she desiresthis 
  is when women are truly empowered in birth.and this empowers us as 
  midwives too Yours in reforming midwiferyTina 
  PettigrewB Mid StudentAustralian Catholic University Melb. 
  

Re: [ozmidwifery] Touching babes at birth......

[TinaPettigrew]

In a message dated 9/02/03 9:57:29 AM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


how many women are willing to touch their baby during the process of birth
and immediately at the moment of birthing???

i can see that with much pre education this may be possible. However if it
is to happen the way you idealistically suggest then perhaps one criteria
for  in  water birthing will need to be that  women are fully educated
willing and cooperative in  handling her baby  at the moment of birth.

we do have to be careful in the asumptions we make about how women may feel
and be able to respond at the various stages of birthing.

Ruth
 

Hello Ruth and all

just as dangerous is the assumption that women are not interested in touching their babies during birth and to suggest that women need "education" to handle their babes at birthM..Encouraging the woman to touch her baby is a very powerful way of connecting her to the birth process and gives her purpose often when energies are waning for me its about giving the power to the woman to tell me what's going on for her without the midwife having to be invasive...eg: sticking my fingers in...or parting labiawatching perineum's etc...If I feel the need to 'know what's going on' all I often do is just gently ask the woman to tell me what she is feeling...If she has no words to describe it, or says "I don't know"...then I gently encourage her to put her own fingers inside and tell me what she feels. In my experience women rarely refuse to do this when invited to do so and personally I think its how we ask and the context in which we ask it .I have no words to describe the sheer look of amazement and wonder when the woman declares she can feel their babies head just inside.the power, renewed energy and a strong sense of purpose that this gives women is fantasticand birth usually follows very quicklytouch can be really important to if at crowning the women needs some reassurance that all is fine and she is not "splitting apart"encouraging her to feel for herself that she is safe again is very reaffirming for her and she often then lets go and the babe emerges beautifullyoften into her own hand if she desiresthis is when women are truly empowered in birth.and this empowers us as midwives too 

Yours in reforming midwifery
Tina Pettigrew

B Mid Student
Australian Catholic University Melb.