Re: Complex region selection

[.net noobie]

In this example it is making Map Tiles correct

but the point is... that you don't need to have the data in SQL Server to
use the SQL Spacial functionality
it shows how easily you can use it via C# and this data could be coming
from anywhere, then you can access the funtionality of the SQL Spiacial
features in your code...

e.g. say Greg has a list of data for towns/cities as points and an "int"
for the population of that city/town...
on a mouse over he may with to make a service that can convert that point
to a circle that has a radius that is relitive to the size of the
population of that town/city

you may wish to have all the data loaded by default... or you may have
quite a large amount of data for a mouse over display and you may wish to
the pull that data (and maybe manipulate it as well) on demand

so yes in that example it is generating map tiles... but with a bit of
imagination the exmaple can be applied in many ways... not just Map Tile
Generation

ayway the point of the link is that you can use all this functionality with
data from anywhere, not just data sitting in a MS SQL 2008 Db
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Richard Mason  wrote:

> The big difference with your link is that its displaying rastered
> information so interaction is a bit different. Specifically with Greg's
> specs is you can't easily do the "hit testing and pleasing animations on
> mouse over and click" since you don't have the details of the polygons on
> the client side. It can however support larger and more complex data
> since you don't rely on the client for rendering.
>
> If you really want to use the dynamic tile generation though you'll need
> to carefully think about your server-side hardware if you want to support
> any significant number of users. I work in a team that has a deployed a
> dynamic tile solution for 500+ internal users and a large set of data. We
> quickly found we needed to pre-generate a lot of the tiles to get suitable
> performance.
>
> Greg - I encourage you to jump into the spatial world. It's lots of fun
> and you immediately start seeing all the ways you could be presenting data
> to users spatially - which is often a great option for the user. Of course
> you then are in complete disbelief when data ISN'T presented spatially...
> tonight I'm specifically thinking about live QLD election results on a map.
> Can't find one anywhere :(
>
> Richard
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 2:39 PM, .net noobie wrote:
>
>> the link i sent has the same as richard, but also shows how you can do
>> these things in code C# with out SQL Server
>> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>>
>>>  Thanks Richard, you have mentioned some very interesting tools and
>>> techniques, so technically interesting in fact that I feel compelled to get
>>> the tools and play with them. I refuse to be defeated by shapefiles - Greg
>>> 
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
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Re: Complex region selection

[Richard Mason]

The big difference with your link is that its displaying rastered
information so interaction is a bit different. Specifically with Greg's
specs is you can't easily do the "hit testing and pleasing animations on
mouse over and click" since you don't have the details of the polygons on
the client side. It can however support larger and more complex data since
you don't rely on the client for rendering.

If you really want to use the dynamic tile generation though you'll need to
carefully think about your server-side hardware if you want to support any
significant number of users. I work in a team that has a deployed a dynamic
tile solution for 500+ internal users and a large set of data. We quickly
found we needed to pre-generate a lot of the tiles to get suitable
performance.

Greg - I encourage you to jump into the spatial world. It's lots of fun and
you immediately start seeing all the ways you could be presenting data to
users spatially - which is often a great option for the user. Of course you
then are in complete disbelief when data ISN'T presented spatially...
tonight I'm specifically thinking about live QLD election results on a map.
Can't find one anywhere :(

Richard

On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 2:39 PM, .net noobie  wrote:

> the link i sent has the same as richard, but also shows how you can do
> these things in code C# with out SQL Server
> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>>  Thanks Richard, you have mentioned some very interesting tools and
>> techniques, so technically interesting in fact that I feel compelled to get
>> the tools and play with them. I refuse to be defeated by shapefiles - Greg
>> 
>>
>> ** **
>>
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>>
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Re: Complex region selection

[.net noobie]

the link i sent has the same as richard, but also shows how you can do
these things in code C# with out SQL Server
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Thanks Richard, you have mentioned some very interesting tools and
> techniques, so technically interesting in fact that I feel compelled to get
> the tools and play with them. I refuse to be defeated by shapefiles - Greg
> 
>
> ** **
>
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>
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RE: Complex region selection

[Greg Keogh]

Thanks Richard, you have mentioned some very interesting tools and
techniques, so technically interesting in fact that I feel compelled to get
the tools and play with them. I refuse to be defeated by shapefiles - Greg 

 

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Re: Complex region selection

[.net noobie]

http://rbrundritt.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/dynamic-tile-layers-in-the-bing-maps-silverlight-control/

may have some info that could help you?
has source code download


On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Richard Mason  wrote:

> If you have SQL Server around, why don't you import the shape files into
> SQL (http://www.sharpgis.net/page/SQL-Server-2008-Spatial-Tools.aspx).
> Then you can do use the Reduce function to reduce the complexity of the
> shape to something suitable for you then use STAsText() to get the GEO as
> "well known text (WKT)" (it's a standard spatial format). I think you'll
> find parsing the WKT quite simple - it's basically a list of points for
> each polygon.
>
> So you end up with a SQL statement something like:
>
> SELECT TOP 1 GEO.Reduce(100).STAsText() FROM Building
>
> Adjust the reduce value suitably for whatever quality you need the polygon
> in. You can then just grab the WKT and use it in your app. i.e. you don't
> actually need to have any SQL Server dependency in the app.
>
> I still think you should look at using DeepEarth to then display the geo -
> you'll save a HEAP of time handling zooming panning etc and you can easily
> create DeepEarth polygons from the WKT.
>
> Richard
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> Chaps, I found some free downloads of shapefiles for various states and
>> countries, but then I had to go looking for a managed code library that can
>> manipulate shp, prj and dbx files. I found SharpMap and DotSpatial which
>> look very impressive for apps with maps, but it’s huge overkill for me. I
>> just need simple regions with colours and selection, so perhaps it’s best
>> just to render the graphics myself with hit-test and simple animations. All
>> I have to do now is find some country and state shapes in an open format
>> (preferably XML). Simplified shapes would be fine of course as I don’t need
>> the 3 seconds of arc accuracy of some of the shapefiles I’ve seen. I’ll
>> report back when I make any progress on this -- Greg 
>>
>> ** **
>>
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Re: Complex region selection

[Richard Mason]

If you have SQL Server around, why don't you import the shape files into
SQL (http://www.sharpgis.net/page/SQL-Server-2008-Spatial-Tools.aspx). Then
you can do use the Reduce function to reduce the complexity of the shape to
something suitable for you then use STAsText() to get the GEO as "well
known text (WKT)" (it's a standard spatial format). I think you'll find
parsing the WKT quite simple - it's basically a list of points for each
polygon.

So you end up with a SQL statement something like:

SELECT TOP 1 GEO.Reduce(100).STAsText() FROM Building

Adjust the reduce value suitably for whatever quality you need the polygon
in. You can then just grab the WKT and use it in your app. i.e. you don't
actually need to have any SQL Server dependency in the app.

I still think you should look at using DeepEarth to then display the geo -
you'll save a HEAP of time handling zooming panning etc and you can easily
create DeepEarth polygons from the WKT.

Richard

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Chaps, I found some free downloads of shapefiles for various states and
> countries, but then I had to go looking for a managed code library that can
> manipulate shp, prj and dbx files. I found SharpMap and DotSpatial which
> look very impressive for apps with maps, but it’s huge overkill for me. I
> just need simple regions with colours and selection, so perhaps it’s best
> just to render the graphics myself with hit-test and simple animations. All
> I have to do now is find some country and state shapes in an open format
> (preferably XML). Simplified shapes would be fine of course as I don’t need
> the 3 seconds of arc accuracy of some of the shapefiles I’ve seen. I’ll
> report back when I make any progress on this -- Greg 
>
> ** **
>
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RE: Complex region selection

[Greg Keogh]

Chaps, I found some free downloads of shapefiles for various states and
countries, but then I had to go looking for a managed code library that can
manipulate shp, prj and dbx files. I found SharpMap and DotSpatial which
look very impressive for apps with maps, but it's huge overkill for me. I
just need simple regions with colours and selection, so perhaps it's best
just to render the graphics myself with hit-test and simple animations. All
I have to do now is find some country and state shapes in an open format
(preferably XML). Simplified shapes would be fine of course as I don't need
the 3 seconds of arc accuracy of some of the shapefiles I've seen. I'll
report back when I make any progress on this -- Greg 

 

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Re: Complex region selection

[Richard Mason]

For the state boundaries GeoCommons is your friend:
http://geocommons.com/overlays/1198

For the UI you probably want to start with an existing mapping control like
DeepEarth (http://deepearth.codeplex.com/) or the bing maps control.
They'll give you lots of stuff for free including all the zooming,
selecting, etc and a base map. Plenty of examples out there to get you
started and we can help you the rest of the way.

Richard

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Chris Anderson wrote:

> Well, it's mainly used to demonstrate how much you can customise the
> ListBox control using a control template, but you've also got the advantage
> of each state being "selectable" using the functionality already provided
> by the ListBox control.  I think it's quite a neat way to go about the
> problem.
>
> I was wondering where he got the coordinates myself - would be interesting
> to know if/when you find out.  My guess is that he used some software to
> trace the state outlines and convert them to vectors somehow.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On 22 March 2012 13:33, Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> Chris, that’s a really weird sample, putting it in a ListBox, I mean he
>> could have put it all in a Canvas to be more realistic. However there are
>> some interesting clues inside. He has the XML state coordinates, so they
>> (and other stuff) must be publicly available somewhere (I’m still looking)
>> -- Greg 
>>
>> ** **
>>
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>>
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Re: Complex region selection

[Chris Anderson]

Well, it's mainly used to demonstrate how much you can customise the
ListBox control using a control template, but you've also got the advantage
of each state being "selectable" using the functionality already provided
by the ListBox control.  I think it's quite a neat way to go about the
problem.

I was wondering where he got the coordinates myself - would be interesting
to know if/when you find out.  My guess is that he used some software to
trace the state outlines and convert them to vectors somehow.

Chris


On 22 March 2012 13:33, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Chris, that’s a really weird sample, putting it in a ListBox, I mean he
> could have put it all in a Canvas to be more realistic. However there are
> some interesting clues inside. He has the XML state coordinates, so they
> (and other stuff) must be publicly available somewhere (I’m still looking)
> -- Greg 
>
> ** **
>
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RE: Complex region selection

[Greg Keogh]

Chris, that's a really weird sample, putting it in a ListBox, I mean he
could have put it all in a Canvas to be more realistic. However there are
some interesting clues inside. He has the XML state coordinates, so they
(and other stuff) must be publicly available somewhere (I'm still looking)
-- Greg 

 

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RE: Complex region selection

[Greg Keogh]

Carl, unfortunately there is no chance of using SQL Server in this app. I
have a fat book chapter
  here on
spatial data that I'd like to try out, but this isn't a chance. I'm still
web searching for some kind of control or library which might do the heavy
lifting for me -- Greg

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Re: Complex region selection

[Chris Anderson]

How about templating a listbox, as demonstrated here:
http://richapps.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/advanced-styling-wpf/.  That
solution is for WPF, but you could try porting it to Silverlight, and would
solve your US needs out of the box.

Chris


On 22 March 2012 12:28, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, coming soon in our app is the need for a “map region selector”
> where you click on states of America or European counties for example. ***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> I see the problem broken into a few pieces: * defining the complex regions
> and hoping that there are public sets of coordinates that define famous
> boundaries like countries and states * zooming around the map to select
> small regions (like Luxembourg) * hit testing and pleasing animations on
> mouse over and click.
>
> ** **
>
> If anyone has been through this exercise before then I’m keen to hear
> advice. I’m hoping that I won’t have to do everything manually from first
> principles with raw code and drawing primitives.
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg
>
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RE: Complex region selection

[Carl . Scarlett]

I remember way back in SQL Server 2008 they introduced geospacial data
and queries that may make this sort of stuff easy.  There were a few
demos floating around on how to interact with this sort of data, which
I'm sure you could google up without much effort.  Unfortunately I
haven't had the joy of playing with it myself, so that's as far as I can
take you.

 

Of course, it would introduce a dependence on SQL Server to provide all
the grunt, which may not be acceptable for your solution.


Carl.

 

Carl Scarlett

Senior .NET/WPF Developer, UX Designer | Genesis

Enterprise Services | Bankwest

A: Level 5, 199 Hay Street | Perth | Western Australia | 6004

P: (08) 9449 8989

M: 0408 913 870

E: carl.scarl...@bankwest.com.au <mailto:carl.scarl...@bankwest.com.au> 

 

Description: cid:image001.png@01CCF7AD.AC5F6E80

 

 

 

From: ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com
[mailto:ozsilverlight-boun...@ozsilverlight.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh

Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2012 9:28 AM
To: "'ozSilverlight'" 
Subject: Complex region selection

 

Folks, coming soon in our app is the need for a "map region selector"
where you click on states of America or European counties for example. 

 

I see the problem broken into a few pieces: * defining the complex
regions and hoping that there are public sets of coordinates that define
famous boundaries like countries and states * zooming around the map to
select small regions (like Luxembourg) * hit testing and pleasing
animations on mouse over and click.

 

If anyone has been through this exercise before then I'm keen to hear
advice. I'm hoping that I won't have to do everything manually from
first principles with raw code and drawing primitives.

 

Cheers,

Greg


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Complex region selection

[Greg Keogh]

Folks, coming soon in our app is the need for a "map region selector" where
you click on states of America or European counties for example. 

 

I see the problem broken into a few pieces: * defining the complex regions
and hoping that there are public sets of coordinates that define famous
boundaries like countries and states * zooming around the map to select
small regions (like Luxembourg) * hit testing and pleasing animations on
mouse over and click.

 

If anyone has been through this exercise before then I'm keen to hear
advice. I'm hoping that I won't have to do everything manually from first
principles with raw code and drawing primitives.

 

Cheers,

Greg

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