Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

Thanks Mark

I remember that video documentary and like it.

AI may also become a way of being a mirror to learning, to our own
reflexivity ?

For example, see this "toy" for kids - not sure it is to be defined as AI,
yet ... has a feeling of it.

https://www.ubooly.com/

http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/19/meet-ubooly-the-smart-toy-that-can-teach-your-child-math/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOwW5gP3fmM

After all , millions of kids, now become adults like myself, grew up with
TV when ending up isolated most of the time,
because adults are busy earning money to afford survival and rent,
and because organizing meetings with other kids by making agreements with
other parents was more of an event
then something usual, at least from my point of experience.More and
more of global population, and of children,
are trapped in cities.

In my own case, luckily I had access to documentaries, in several
languages, with a broad choice of channels for the day.

Today, there is , luckily, the internet.

At best, some of these "toys" can be pre-programmed to teach children to
get out of the rat race,
and develop strategies to get out of an exponential debt/slavery system,
hopefully enabling them to develop a (co)creative curious approach to
learning ( and not merely a reproductive approach )

Even for me today, it is not easy to find people who share interests who
have availability to learn together, except on the internet,
in a asynchronous way.

I live in this city, yet it is irrelevant.  I sometimes go outside to see
people, yet avoid certain times of the day,
feeling what people feel. There is segregation.   Some parts of the
population take public transport.  Others go by car.

I am imprisoned despite being "free". Imprisoned because social income
requires me to be integrating, and staying within this limited territory.

I accepted, after spending several years of "freedom", but trapped in
constant movement and change, hitch hiking.

I am still very empowered, so lets not be too concerned.   Yet just to say,
I am aware of a lot of people going through such situations.

I do have my approaches, and keep faith.

So in regards to this thread, perhaps we need not completely disregard
certain technologies,
and the potential for intelligence it can enable ( despite surveillance )
as they can be a source of remaining hope , to remain "human" ,
for those who may end up being isolated in our so called developed
countries.

Imho, Many children being part of such crowds of isolated individuals.








On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Mark Janssen wrote:

> Along the lines of communicating with animals, just saw this:
> http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/11936/The-Animal-Communicator
>
> As for AI, I found that it was a dead-end for this universe (which really
> needs more inter-personal connection), but perhaps for Japan.
> --
> MarkJ
> Tacoma, Washington
>
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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Mark Janssen]

Along the lines of communicating with animals, just saw this:
http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/11936/The-Animal-Communicator

As for AI, I found that it was a dead-end for this universe (which really
needs more inter-personal connection), but perhaps for Japan.
-- 
MarkJ
Tacoma, Washington
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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Pamela McLean]

ref self directed learning see also  - Slideshare - What is Heutagogy?-
http://www.slideshare.net/fredgarnett/selfdetermined-learning-the-craft-of-heutagogy
also - for some great explanations of learning see Jim Gee Principles on
Gaming - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aQAgAjTozk#t=1175






On 29 November 2013 03:15, Dante-Gabryell Monson wrote:

> Just noticed the use of this concept :
>
> *"Flipped Teaching"*
> *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_teaching*
>
> Turning Education Upside Down
>
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/turning-education-upside-down/
>
> Flipped School
> http://www.flippedhighschool.com/
>
> ///
>
> *Flip teaching* (or flipped classroom) is a form of blended 
> learning in
> which students learn new content online by watching video lectures, usually
> at home, and what used to be homework (assigned problems) is now done in
> class with teacher offering more personalized guidance and interaction with
> students, instead of lecturing. This is also known as*backwards classroom*
> , *reverse instruction*, *flipping the classroom* and *reverse teaching*.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
> dante.mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Maria.
>>
>> I found this 2007 archive, copied below, where Michel shared a list of
>> references from the wiki,
>> in reply to a longer thread which I initially titled
>>
>> *" No curriculum , No students , No teachers / but Interconnected
>> Questions , Initiatives , and Peers of all ages CREATING - with access to
>> Unlimited Knowledge Pools "*
>>
>> longer thread reposted here
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/econowmix/qGFtigVrVqA
>>
>>
>> note : R.I.P. Parker Rossman
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Michel Bauwens < michelsub2...@gmail.com >
>> Date: May 7, 2007 9:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: No curriculum , No students , No teachers / but
>> Interconnected Questions , Initiatives , and Peers of all ages CREATING -
>> with access to Unlimited Knowledge Pools
>> To: Parker Rossman 
>> Cc: dante.mon...@gmail.com,
>>
>> Hi Parker,
>>
>>
>>
>> some links that may be of interest to your investigation, all collated
>> from our p2p learning pages, see also the inspiring citations at the
>>  bottom:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Education
>>
>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Educational_Resources 
>> 
>>
>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Textbooks
>>
>> tags
>>
>> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Education 
>> 
>>
>> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Textbooks
>>
>> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/P2P-Learning
>>
>>
>> misc on free curricula
>>
>> http://opencontent.org/blog/
>>
>> http://www.eliteskills.com/free_education/?foo=x
>>
>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Free_Curricula_Center
>>
>> http://opencontent.org/ocwfinder/
>>
>>
>> various open concepts as related to education
>>
>>
>>- OER Commons 
>>- One Laptop per Child
>>- Online Gradebooks 
>>- Online Learning 
>> Communities
>>- Open Access 
>>- Open Archives 
>>- Open Archives 
>> Initiative
>>- Open Biology 
>>- Open Code 
>>- Open Content 
>>- Open CourseWare 
>> Finder
>>- Open Courseware 
>> Initiative
>>- Open Curriculum 
>> Movement
>>- Open Data 
>>- Open Education 
>>- Open Education 2006
>>- Open Educational 
>> Resources
>>- Open Learning 
>>- Open Media Registry
>>- Open Science 
>>- Open Source Education 
>> Models
>>- Open Source Knowledge 
>> Building
>>- Open Source Schools
>>- Open Source Software Distribution 
>> Initiative
>>   

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

Just noticed the use of this concept :

*"Flipped Teaching"*
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_teaching*

Turning Education Upside Down
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/turning-education-upside-down/

Flipped School
http://www.flippedhighschool.com/

///

*Flip teaching* (or flipped classroom) is a form of blended
learning in
which students learn new content online by watching video lectures, usually
at home, and what used to be homework (assigned problems) is now done in
class with teacher offering more personalized guidance and interaction with
students, instead of lecturing. This is also known as*backwards
classroom*, *reverse
instruction*, *flipping the classroom* and *reverse teaching*.


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.mon...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Maria.
>
> I found this 2007 archive, copied below, where Michel shared a list of
> references from the wiki,
> in reply to a longer thread which I initially titled
>
> *" No curriculum , No students , No teachers / but Interconnected
> Questions , Initiatives , and Peers of all ages CREATING - with access to
> Unlimited Knowledge Pools "*
>
> longer thread reposted here
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/econowmix/qGFtigVrVqA
>
>
> note : R.I.P. Parker Rossman
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Michel Bauwens < michelsub2...@gmail.com >
> Date: May 7, 2007 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: No curriculum , No students , No teachers / but
> Interconnected Questions , Initiatives , and Peers of all ages CREATING -
> with access to Unlimited Knowledge Pools
> To: Parker Rossman 
> Cc: dante.mon...@gmail.com,
>
> Hi Parker,
>
>
>
> some links that may be of interest to your investigation, all collated
> from our p2p learning pages, see also the inspiring citations at the
>  bottom:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Education
>
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Educational_Resources 
> 
>
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Textbooks
>
> tags
>
> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Education 
> 
>
> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Textbooks
>
> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/P2P-Learning
>
>
> misc on free curricula
>
> http://opencontent.org/blog/
>
> http://www.eliteskills.com/free_education/?foo=x
>
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Free_Curricula_Center
>
> http://opencontent.org/ocwfinder/
>
>
> various open concepts as related to education
>
>
>- OER Commons 
>- One Laptop per Child
>- Online Gradebooks 
>- Online Learning 
> Communities
>- Open Access 
>- Open Archives 
>- Open Archives 
> Initiative
>- Open Biology 
>- Open Code 
>- Open Content 
>- Open CourseWare 
> Finder
>- Open Courseware 
> Initiative
>- Open Curriculum 
> Movement
>- Open Data 
>- Open Education 
>- Open Education 2006
>- Open Educational 
> Resources
>- Open Learning 
>- Open Media Registry
>- Open Science 
>- Open Source Education 
> Models
>- Open Source Knowledge 
> Building
>- Open Source Schools
>- Open Source Software Distribution 
> Initiative
>- Open Source Virtual 
> Worlds
>- Open Textbooks 
>
>
>
> citations
>
> Citation 1: The Open Education movement is gaining momentum
>
> "*The field of open education is gaining momentum around the world.
> Literally hundreds of open education projects are springing up from Tokyo
> to Boston to Paris to Beijing. Over 2000 courses are now available through
> OpenCourseWare projects alone. Add

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

Thanks Maria.

I found this 2007 archive, copied below, where Michel shared a list of
references from the wiki,
in reply to a longer thread which I initially titled

*" No curriculum , No students , No teachers / but Interconnected Questions
, Initiatives , and Peers of all ages CREATING - with access to Unlimited
Knowledge Pools "*

longer thread reposted here

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/econowmix/qGFtigVrVqA


note : R.I.P. Parker Rossman

-- Forwarded message --
From: Michel Bauwens < michelsub2...@gmail.com >
Date: May 7, 2007 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: No curriculum , No students , No teachers / but Interconnected
Questions , Initiatives , and Peers of all ages CREATING - with access to
Unlimited Knowledge Pools
To: Parker Rossman 
Cc: dante.mon...@gmail.com,

Hi Parker,



some links that may be of interest to your investigation, all collated from
our p2p learning pages, see also the inspiring citations at the bottom:




http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Education

http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Educational_Resources


http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Textbooks

tags

http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Education


http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/Open-Textbooks

http://del.icio.us/mbauwens/P2P-Learning


misc on free curricula

http://opencontent.org/blog/

http://www.eliteskills.com/free_education/?foo=x

http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Free_Curricula_Center

http://opencontent.org/ocwfinder/


various open concepts as related to education


   - OER Commons 
   - One Laptop per Child
   - Online Gradebooks 
   - Online Learning
Communities
   - Open Access 
   - Open Archives 
   - Open Archives
Initiative
   - Open Biology 
   - Open Code 
   - Open Content 
   - Open CourseWare Finder
   - Open Courseware
Initiative
   - Open Curriculum
Movement
   - Open Data 
   - Open Education 
   - Open Education 2006 
   - Open Educational
Resources
   - Open Learning 
   - Open Media Registry 
   - Open Science 
   - Open Source Education
Models
   - Open Source Knowledge
Building
   - Open Source Schools 
   - Open Source Software Distribution
Initiative
   - Open Source Virtual
Worlds
   - Open Textbooks 



citations

Citation 1: The Open Education movement is gaining momentum

"*The field of open education is gaining momentum around the world.
Literally hundreds of open education projects are springing up from Tokyo
to Boston to Paris to Beijing. Over 2000 courses are now available through
OpenCourseWare projects alone. Add to this the growing number of open
access learning object repositories, increases in the number and
quality ofopen source educational software projects, the open education
work agencies like UNESCO and the OECD are doing, and the field is
diversifying as quickly as it is growing.*." (
http://cosl.usu.edu/conferences/opened2006/

)



Citation 2: Schools need to open up to peer-based learning models

"When you look at children's learning outside school, it is driven by what
they are interested in, which is the direct opposite of school-based
learning. For example, inthe United States a group of students were
interested in Manga, the Japanese animated cartoons. In order to get
hold of them
before they were due to arrive on themarket, this group got together,
taught themselves Japanese, subtitling and web streaming, because they were
motivated to.


What is the relationship with this idea that education is handing down a
general baseof knowledge? I think that is one of the tensions.


When you look at learning in the home you see knowledge-bui

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Maria Droujkova]

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
dante.mon...@gmail.com> wrote:

:)

Thanks Maria

This is a list of spaces , which may correspond to the spirit
http://emergentbydesign.com/2012/01/08/93-superhero-schools-collaboratories-incubators-accelerators-hubs-for-social-tech-innovation/

As for names for such approaches...

Connectivism may be one of such learning approaches ? ( some see it as
related to constructivism ? )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectivism

...
I am very tempted, though this may be more general,
to add Buckminster Fuller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
 and Ivan Illich ( " Tools for Conviviality" , ... )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Illich


Thank you! These general resources help as well, because people who
actively follow Buckminster Fuller ideas (for example) tend to form
flexible learning/working groups more than other demographics.

Very helpful!


Cheers,
Dr. Maria Droujkova
moebiusnoodles.com
919-388-1721
=~+~+~=
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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

:)

Thanks Maria

This is a list of spaces , which may correspond to the spirit
http://emergentbydesign.com/2012/01/08/93-superhero-schools-collaboratories-incubators-accelerators-hubs-for-social-tech-innovation/

As for names for such approaches...

Connectivism may be one of such learning approaches ? ( some see it as
related to constructivism ? )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectivism

...
I am very tempted, though this may be more general,
to add Buckminster Fuller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
and Ivan Illich ( " Tools for Conviviality" , ... )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Illich

...

I wish to put forward the suggestion and potential for some of us who are
in Europe ( or those that can easily make it to europe )
to organize some collective for a week or two on such topics.

A not for profit is making available this space in Antwerp , though it will
take at least a few months before the place can be made hospitable enough
to welcome people
http://sharewiki.org/en/Antwerp_Collective

Cordially,
Dante



On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Maria Droujkova wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Michel Bauwens 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Dante-Gabryell Monson 
>>
>> entire article : http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/all/
>>
> The article lists BIG WAVES in the contemporary free learning, and names
> people who talk about each wave.
>
> - computer-based explorations, Sugata Mitra, Nicholas Negroponte
> - freeschools, Peter Gray
> - cognitive and neuroscience studies, Joel Voss, Alison Gopnik
>
> I would like to expand this list. Here are my suggestions:
> - the Maker movement
> - homeschoolers, unschoolers
> - computer-based modular expert systems for networks of learners (e.g.
> Project Euler)
>
> More?
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dr. Maria Droujkova
> moebiusnoodles.com
> 919-388-1721
> =~+~=
>
>
> ___
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> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
>
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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Maria Droujkova]

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:



-- Forwarded message --
From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* 

entire article : http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/all/

The article lists BIG WAVES in the contemporary free learning, and names
people who talk about each wave.

- computer-based explorations, Sugata Mitra, Nicholas Negroponte
- freeschools, Peter Gray
- cognitive and neuroscience studies, Joel Voss, Alison Gopnik

I would like to expand this list. Here are my suggestions:
- the Maker movement
- homeschoolers, unschoolers
- computer-based modular expert systems for networks of learners (e.g.
Project Euler)

More?


Cheers,
Dr. Maria Droujkova
moebiusnoodles.com
919-388-1721
=~+~=
___
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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

the age of 10 -- before just
>> letting the machines take over.
>>
>> Which again, is where some "educational policy leaders" are definitely
>> headed, so much more "cost-effective" for getting "test-takers" taught on
>> easily measurable quantitative and thus inherently reductive tests of what
>> that "education" should encompass.  I was only arguing that despite its
>> advantages, technology as systematic education can have some very negative
>> outcomes and certainly cautions to consider as well.
>>
>> Warmly,
>> June
>>
>>   --
>>  *From:* Dante-Gabryell Monson 
>> *To:* June Gorman ; P2P Foundation mailing
>> list 
>> *Cc:* Myra Jackson 
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 9:20 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
>>
>>
>> Hi June,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply,
>>
>> I personally do not see this as a replacement of humans by the machines.
>>
>> I rather see the internet as a powerful tool for access to information,
>> both supporting and facilitated by dynamics between learners.
>>
>> I believe that the pedagogies it can be inspired of are that of Piaget,
>> Montessori, ...
>>
>> And as Marco underlined, hardly any new self learning ( or mutual
>> learning ) approaches.
>>
>> What is new, is possibly broader mainstream recognition, possibly
>> supported by the more widespread usage and interconnection of information
>> technologies globally, and in peoples lifestyles, facilitating a shift away
>> of "the expert", or "the teacher" as monopoly in terms of knowledge.
>>
>> Such approaches have been central in my own learning - up to a point
>> where I felt I could learn faster / feel less alienated in my learning by
>> leaving school.
>>
>> The challenge, then, for me at least, is to build up recognition through
>> networked approaches, with peers, rather then through top down ,
>> centralized certification programs and education environments.
>>
>> Although one may argue that the tests could at some point confirm the
>> acquired ( self ) learning, the self learner ( or rather, the mutual
>> learners in self organizing approaches ) does not, contrary to official
>> enrolled students, benefit from such "student" status, and at least in my
>> experience, faces pressures from society, even if only in terms of lack of
>> support.
>>
>> Cordially,
>> Dante
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:37 PM, June Gorman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Dante-Gabryell --
>>
>> This is wonderful stuff.  I know of Mitra's work and find it exciting.
>>  Some of us in the UN Commons Cluster are working on these ideas as well
>> and how they fit into education of and about all the Commons.
>>
>> But as a 30+ year (Western-US) teacher and the founder of the 
>> *<http://209.172.54.115/>MailScanner
>> has detected a possible fraud attempt from "209.172.54.115" claiming to be 
>> Transformative
>> Education Forum *, I would caution at the over-enthusiasm of the
>> computer-focused translation of this idea of "learner-centered".  It is
>> clearly an amazing and freeing tool in countless ways besides providing the
>> "Library of the World" to any child, nearly anywhere with access to one.
>>  But it reduces dangerously the historical, pedagogical and epistemological
>> theories of learning and the human child themselves, down to dangerously
>> reductive concepts of what in fact is most important "to learn".  Whose
>> "information" gets processed and with what underlying results?
>>
>> It is one of my deepest concerns with the over-promotion of STEM
>> (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) in the Western world,
>> dramatically by "education promoting companies" who want to sell this model
>> to everyone else as the US is currently doing promoting "No Child Left
>> Behind" worldwide through the World Bank and Brookings Institute.  But for
>> those of us in the education field all our life, there is definite need to
>> examine these issues, like certain brain theory results accompanying early
>> child exposure to computers as their dominant learner - interaction.  The
>> TEF tries to address this issue of needed complete intelligence development
>> with arts, humanities and especially the social/cultural/emotional learning
>> not developed with this priority or technological "de

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

Thank you June for correcting my apparent mis-interpretation of your reply.

I believe it can be part of an equipotential approach , defined in this way

http://p2pfoundation.net/Equipotentiality

a non-credentialist approach :
http://p2pfoundation.net/Anti-Credentialism

I remember the story of medieval universities emerging around libraries, as
a convergence amongst peers ?

Furthermore, I personally have the tendency to discourage the usage of the
word "education", preferring the concept of "learning".

A further potential I hope we can explore further is one of nomadic
learning.
Learning via contexts and situations, in interaction with a diverse set of
realities , encounters, influences.

Cordially,
Dante






On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 7:14 PM, June Gorman wrote:

> Hi Dante,
>
> I was in no way suggesting that you saw this as replacing humans with
> machines.  My caution is that there are several very powerful forces in the
> current models of education being promoted, many under the rubric of
> "education for sustainable development", that very much do have that exact
> long-term goal.  This in the US, is part of the issue on both sides of the
> eventual benefit/destruction controversy of public university models
> promoting the MOOC (Massive Open Online Courses) by some of the top private
> universities in the US.  Currently offered many times for
> free.but..in the future?  And at what loss to the basic premise of
> universities -- that people from different worlds, views and backgrounds
> come together in a "combustion" of these different ideas?  That often
> necessitates interpersonal listening and dynamics I haven't seen often well
> exemplified in truly difficult conversations, on the computers alone.
>
> In the individual case, like yours, many valid points do exist such as you
> say,
>
> "Such approaches have been central in my own learning - up to a point
> where I felt I could learn faster / feel less alienated in my learning by
> leaving school."
>
> Multiple modalities and ways of learning need to be open wide to all to
> access their preferred way of doing so, and the computer is among these.
>  Even Marco mentions an important one of these with the Boy Scout more
> Dewyan -- "learn by doing" -- model.  But all of these systematic models
> embody the mostly un-excavated and un-examined prejudices of their dominant
> instigators and thus in the clear case of the Boy Scouts -- discrimination
> against girls (handled by funding a separate sex organization in the Girl
> Guides) and the latest, against homosexuals.
>
> There are also some dominant Western "Enlightenment" and entitlement-based
> ideologies that systemized certainly sexist models of defining ways of most
> productive thinking and evening feminine/humanities/irrational/nature vs.
> masculine/science/rational/technology dichotomies with Father-Force and
> technology having the thus naturally accepted right to dominate and
> subjugate "Mother-nature".
>
> This is one reason many females under that system found it very difficult
> to proceed in their most productive-to-learn ways and style of learning,
> and one reason many "others" of different groups also find the computer
> less judgmental of what "intelligence" most mattered in these limited ways
> found in our standard educational "systems" and thus found it easier to
> learn on their own.  But my concern is that these still underlying
> judgments of the technological-dominant view of the world prevail and often
> remain, now with no dissenting "teachers" at all, and will thus be the only
> view children are "exposed to" at all, to what is most important to learn.
>
> That computers can add to this connecting and learning from others at all
> ages -- that I think is where your argument is very much more powerful.  I
> completely agree on that point, but it is still necessary to learn the most
> critical emotional/social/cultural intelligences for a sustainable
> (healthy, peaceful, caring and more equitable) world only interpersonally
> with others and critically when children are mostly "emotional" learners
> and thinkers -- when they are young and until the age of 10 -- before just
> letting the machines take over.
>
> Which again, is where some "educational policy leaders" are definitely
> headed, so much more "cost-effective" for getting "test-takers" taught on
> easily measurable quantitative and thus inherently reductive tests of what
> that "education" should encompass.  I was only arguing that despite its
> advantages, technology as systematic education can have some very negative
> outcom

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

o learn".  Whose "information"
>>> gets processed and with what underlying results?
>>>
>>> It is one of my deepest concerns with the over-promotion of STEM
>>> (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) in the Western world,
>>> dramatically by "education promoting companies" who want to sell this model
>>> to everyone else as the US is currently doing promoting "No Child Left
>>> Behind" worldwide through the World Bank and Brookings Institute.  But for
>>> those of us in the education field all our life, there is definite need to
>>> examine these issues, like certain brain theory results accompanying early
>>> child exposure to computers as their dominant learner - interaction.  The
>>> TEF tries to address this issue of needed complete intelligence development
>>> with arts, humanities and especially the social/cultural/emotional learning
>>> not developed with this priority or technological "default".
>>>
>>> Anyway, more is available on this on the TEF website, but particularly
>>> the *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
>>> "209.172.54.115" claiming to be TEF 
>>> Principles*<http://209.172.54.115/web/guest/principles>.
>>>  There is a serious caution here about just how much and what exactly, the
>>> "machines" can and do teach when used primarily? So much cheaper though,
>>> for those trying to go into the field of education for their own profit and
>>> on top of it, leaves out those more philosophical, even human justice and
>>> equity arguments that actually really matter for children around the world
>>> to ultimately make sense of their lives and societies.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> June
>>> *June Gorman, Educator and Educational Theorist*
>>>  Co-founder*, **MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
>>> "209.172.54.115" claiming to be <http://209.172.54.115/>MailScanner has
>>> detected a possible fraud attempt from "209.172.54.115" claiming to be 
>>> Transformative
>>> Education Forum (note website re-work, so ignore "non-standard"
>>> notification :-)*
>>> Education Advisor,  <http://www.safepla.net/>
>>> *UN SafePlanet Campaign *
>>> *Board Project Director for Outreach, I**nternational Model United
>>> Nations Association* <http://imuna.org/>* *
>>> *Steering Committee, (UNESCO/Global Compact) **K-12 Sector for
>>> Sustainability Education *<http://www.uspartnership.org/main/view_archive/1>
>>> Member, UN Education Caucus for Sustainable Development
>>> Member, UN Commons Cluster
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>  *From:* Michel Bauwens 
>>> *To:* p2p-foundation 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 4:03 AM
>>> *Subject:* [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* 
>>> Date: Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 2:16 AM
>>> Subject: Wired : learner centered movement
>>> To: "econow...@googlegroups.com" , "
>>> netention-...@googlegroups.com" , "
>>> global-survi...@googlegroups.com" 
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/*
>>> *
>>> *a new breed of educators, inspired by everything from the Internet to
>>> evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and AI, are inventing radical new
>>> ways for children to learn, grow, and thrive. To them, knowledge isn’t a
>>> commodity that’s delivered from teacher to student but something that
>>> emerges from the students’ own curiosity-fueled exploration.*
>>> entire article :
>>> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/all/
>>> *student centered movement :
>>> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/student-centered-movement/*
>>> " TED has created a toolkit full of ideas for jumpstarting
>>> student-centered learning in your home, local community, or school. It’s
>>> called SOLE: How to Bring Self-Organized Learning Environments to Your
>>> Community. Download it here <http://www.ted.com/pages/sole_toolkit> and
>>> share your story afterward on the SOLE Tumblr<http://tedsole.tumblr.com/>
>>> ."
>>> further large excerpts :
>>> Teachers provide prompts, not answers, and then they step aside so
>>> students can teach t

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Anna Harris]

Thank you June, I felt we were really in tune. But can you enlarge on your
last point - why does it have to be systematised? IMO that's where it falls
down, thinking that there must be a formula. There isn't. Even that number
12 you quoted is full of 'shoulds' that could be used to impose or
undermine. There is no substitute for direct on-the-job experience, which
cannot be used to extrapolate a theory to use for the next time. Each
moment is unique. That's why we need human beings as well as computers.
Computers give us information but only we can feel and understand its
significance.

Anna


On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 6:45 PM, June Gorman wrote:

> I grant your point, Anna and am far more aligned with it than not.  That
> is why the 12th Principle of the TEF is my favorite:
>
> *Principle 12: Sanctity of Human Learning and Life*
> The learning environment shall be sacred, trust in the wisdom of
> imagination, teach the wonder and potential of every human child, the
> interrelationship of life and that we can no longer afford to live with
> privileged disregard of this planet, all its diverse and valuable species
> and each other.
>
>
> As a 30+ year teacher, I can honestly and most sincerely say everything
> truly important I learned about education, I learned from the children and
> students themselves.  Mostly, how much the way I had been taught to teach
> and was the "best way to learn" applied to very few of the actual human
> beings in front of me who, as true of every child born to the earth, loved
> learning as a natural a priori for the most "learning-dependent" species on
> the planet.  Before often being destroyed by our often very "rigid"
> educational systems.
>
> I spent all the years after my own "elite" education trying to learn from
> them how to really teach what they were interested in learning and more
> importantly, without doing their innate joy and passion in learning, damage.
>
> Yes, I think we could easily replace all Teacher Education with a better
> study of how children prefer to and thrive most in education, by
> understanding and then choosing their own best way to learn and what most
> matters to them to learn.
>
> But you are still going to have to "systemize" that education, even if the
> children are some of the prime contributors to it.  :-)
>
> June
>   --
>  *From:* Anna Harris 
> *To:* dante.mon...@gmail.com; P2P Foundation mailing list <
> p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org>
> *Cc:* June Gorman ; Myra Jackson <
> mljac...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 10:02 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
>
> This is an interesting discussion, but seems to be leaving out the most
> important element, consulting the child. Child centered really means the
> child in charge, trusting the child to make decisions and learn from
> mistakes.
>
> While I understand your concern June, my child self feels constricted by
> all these principles. TEF seems to have a very clear idea of what it is
> trying to produce. Has it asked the child? It seems to have been decided
> what is best for the child, and for society. Certainly more respectful but
> still a top down decision.
>
> Do we really need to stipulate anything? Could we just follow the child,
> learn from the child? That doesn't mean abnegating my own interaction and
> involvement, but that must always be strictly as an equal, not to dictate
> because of my superior age and experience. This is not easy. We think we
> know. We feel responsible. Huge learning for the adult is involved.
>
> And there is still some sort of social demand that the child be 'useful to
> society', Leave them alone, let them be free. We have done enough damage.
>
> Anna
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
> dante.mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi June,
>
> Thanks for your reply,
>
> I personally do not see this as a replacement of humans by the machines.
>
> I rather see the internet as a powerful tool for access to information,
> both supporting and facilitated by dynamics between learners.
>
> I believe that the pedagogies it can be inspired of are that of Piaget,
> Montessori, ...
>
> And as Marco underlined, hardly any new self learning ( or mutual learning
> ) approaches.
>
> What is new, is possibly broader mainstream recognition, possibly
> supported by the more widespread usage and interconnection of information
> technologies globally, and in peoples lifestyles, facilitating a shift away
> of "the expert", or "the teacher" as monopoly in terms of knowledge.
&

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[June Gorman]

I grant your point, Anna and am far more aligned with it than not.  That is why 
the 12th Principle of the TEF is my favorite:  

Principle 12: Sanctity of Human Learning and Life
The learning environment shall be sacred, trust in the wisdom of imagination, 
teach the wonder and potential of every human child, the interrelationship of 
life and that we can no longer afford to live with privileged disregard of this 
planet, all its diverse and valuable species and each other.
 

As a 30+ year teacher, I can honestly and most sincerely say everything truly 
important I learned about education, I learned from the children and students 
themselves.  Mostly, how much the way I had been taught to teach and was the 
"best way to learn" applied to very few of the actual human beings in front of 
me who, as true of every child born to the earth, loved learning as a natural a 
priori for the most "learning-dependent" species on the planet.  Before often 
being destroyed by our often very "rigid" educational systems.  

I spent all the years after my own "elite" education trying to learn from them 
how to really teach what they were interested in learning and more importantly, 
without doing their innate joy and passion in learning, damage.


Yes, I think we could easily replace all Teacher Education with a better study 
of how children prefer to and thrive most in education, by understanding and 
then choosing their own best way to learn and what most matters to them to 
learn.

But you are still going to have to "systemize" that education, even if the 
children are some of the prime contributors to it.  :-)

June


 From: Anna Harris 
To: dante.mon...@gmail.com; P2P Foundation mailing list 
 
Cc: June Gorman ; Myra Jackson  
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
 


This is an interesting discussion, but seems to be leaving out the most 
important element, consulting the child. Child centered really means the child 
in charge, trusting the child to make decisions and learn from mistakes. 

While I understand your concern June, my child self feels constricted by all 
these principles. TEF seems to have a very clear idea of what it is trying to 
produce. Has it asked the child? It seems to have been decided what is best for 
the child, and for society. Certainly more respectful but still a top down 
decision.

Do we really need to stipulate anything? Could we just follow the child, learn 
from the child? That doesn't mean abnegating my own interaction and 
involvement, but that must always be strictly as an equal, not to dictate 
because of my superior age and experience. This is not easy. We think we know. 
We feel responsible. Huge learning for the adult is involved.


And there is still some sort of social demand that the child be 'useful to 
society', Leave them alone, let them be free. We have done enough damage.


Anna





On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson  
wrote:


>
>Hi June,
>
>
>Thanks for your reply,
>
>
>
>I personally do not see this as a replacement of humans by the machines.
>
>
>I rather see the internet as a powerful tool for access to information,
>both supporting and facilitated by dynamics between learners.
>
>
>I believe that the pedagogies it can be inspired of are that of Piaget, 
>Montessori, ...
>
>
>And as Marco underlined, hardly any new self learning ( or mutual learning ) 
>approaches.
>
>
>What is new, is possibly broader mainstream recognition, possibly supported by 
>the more widespread usage and interconnection of information technologies 
>globally, and in peoples lifestyles, facilitating a shift away of "the 
>expert", or "the teacher" as monopoly in terms of knowledge.
>
>
>Such approaches have been central in my own learning - up to a point where I 
>felt I could learn faster / feel less alienated in my learning by leaving 
>school.
>
>
>The challenge, then, for me at least, is to build up recognition through 
>networked approaches, with peers, rather then through top down , centralized 
>certification programs and education environments.
>
>
>Although one may argue that the tests could at some point confirm the acquired 
>( self ) learning, the self learner ( or rather, the mutual learners in self 
>organizing approaches ) does not, contrary to official enrolled students, 
>benefit from such "student" status, and at least in my experience, faces 
>pressures from society, even if only in terms of lack of support.
>
>
>Cordially,
>Dante
>
>
>
>On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:37 PM, June Gorman  wrote:
>
>Dante-Gabryell --
>>
>>
>>This is wonderful stuff.  I know of Mitra's work and find i

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[M. Fioretti]

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 12:19:49 PM -0500, Steve Ediger wrote:
> Yes, Marco, I agree.   It's hardly new or radical.  
> 
> On the other hand, having worked in education for over 15 years, and an active
> reformer, I can say that it's one of the hardest places to achieve change.

So true!

> We would be wise to support this work or augment it in whatever way we can,
> while replacing the label of "new and radical"  with, perhaps, "necessary".

you're preaching to the choir :-)

In fact, my critique was only to the author of the article, not to the
proposal itself!

___
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
http://www.p2pfoundation.net
https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Steve Ediger]

Yes, Marco, I agree.   It's hardly new or radical.

On the other hand, having worked in education for over 15 years, and an
active reformer, I can say that it's one of the hardest places to achieve
change.  So I believe that we need to support every effort that makes
education more learner-centered and p2p.

I know Sugata and have followed his work since 2003.  Anecdotely, he has
had remarkable results, and I fully support his continued lab-baseed
research. There has been criticism that he needs to back it up with
scientific data and I was glad to see in the Wired article, the references
to studies on learning impact.

We would be wise to support this work or augment it in whatever way we can,
while replacing the label of "new and radical"  with, perhaps, "necessary".

Steve Ediger




On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:22 AM, M. Fioretti  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 13:03:27 PM +0200, Michel Bauwens wrote:
>
> > http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/
> >
> > a new breed of educators, inspired by everything from the Internet
> > to evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and AI, are inventing
> > radical new ways for children to learn, grow, and thrive...
> > ...
>
> hardly "radical new". As I tweeted when I first found that piece, this
> sounds a lot like Scouting as it was meant to be since 1907. Compare:
>
> > Teachers provide prompts, not answers, and then they step aside so
> > students can teach themselves and one another.
>
> with, just to name the first 3 pages I found in a 1-minute search:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_method#Self-learning
>
> or "Learning through doing" in
>
> http://infed.org/mobi/robert-baden-powell-as-an-educational-innovator/
>
> and "progressive self-education" in
> http://scoutdocs.ca/Documents/Fundamental_Principles.php
>
> Marco
>
> ___
> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
___
P2P Foundation - Mailing list
http://www.p2pfoundation.net
https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[June Gorman]

Hi Dante, 

I was in no way suggesting that you saw this as replacing humans with machines. 
 My caution is that there are several very powerful forces in the current 
models of education being promoted, many under the rubric of "education for 
sustainable development", that very much do have that exact long-term goal.  
This in the US, is part of the issue on both sides of the eventual 
benefit/destruction controversy of public university models promoting the MOOC 
(Massive Open Online Courses) by some of the top private universities in the 
US.  Currently offered many times for free.but..in the future?  And at 
what loss to the basic premise of universities -- that people from different 
worlds, views and backgrounds come together in a "combustion" of these 
different ideas?  That often necessitates interpersonal listening and dynamics 
I haven't seen often well exemplified in truly difficult conversations, on the 
computers alone.

In the individual case, like yours, many valid points do exist such as you say,

"Such approaches have been central in my own learning - up to a point where I 
felt I could learn faster / feel less alienated in my learning by leaving 
school."


Multiple modalities and ways of learning need to be open wide to all to access 
their preferred way of doing so, and the computer is among these.  Even Marco 
mentions an important one of these with the Boy Scout more Dewyan -- "learn by 
doing" -- model.  But all of these systematic models embody the mostly 
un-excavated and un-examined prejudices of their dominant instigators and thus 
in the clear case of the Boy Scouts -- discrimination against girls (handled by 
funding a separate sex organization in the Girl Guides) and the latest, against 
homosexuals.

There are also some dominant Western "Enlightenment" and entitlement-based 
ideologies that systemized certainly sexist models of defining ways of most 
productive thinking and evening feminine/humanities/irrational/nature vs. 
masculine/science/rational/technology dichotomies with Father-Force and 
technology having the thus naturally accepted right to dominate and subjugate 
"Mother-nature".

This is one reason many females under that system found it very difficult to 
proceed in their most productive-to-learn ways and style of learning, and one 
reason many "others" of different groups also find the computer less judgmental 
of what "intelligence" most mattered in these limited ways found in our 
standard educational "systems" and thus found it easier to learn on their own.  
But my concern is that these still underlying judgments of the 
technological-dominant view of the world prevail and often remain, now with no 
dissenting "teachers" at all, and will thus be the only view children are 
"exposed to" at all, to what is most important to learn.

That computers can add to this connecting and learning from others at all ages 
-- that I think is where your argument is very much more powerful.  I 
completely agree on that point, but it is still necessary to learn the most 
critical emotional/social/cultural intelligences for a sustainable (healthy, 
peaceful, caring and more equitable) world only interpersonally with others and 
critically when children are mostly "emotional" learners and thinkers -- when 
they are young and until the age of 10 -- before just letting the machines take 
over.  

Which again, is where some "educational policy leaders" are definitely headed, 
so much more "cost-effective" for getting "test-takers" taught on easily 
measurable quantitative and thus inherently reductive tests of what that 
"education" should encompass.  I was only arguing that despite its advantages, 
technology as systematic education can have some very negative outcomes and 
certainly cautions to consider as well.

Warmly,
June


________________
 From: Dante-Gabryell Monson 
To: June Gorman ; P2P Foundation mailing list 
 
Cc: Myra Jackson  
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
 




Hi June,

Thanks for your reply,


I personally do not see this as a replacement of humans by the machines.

I rather see the internet as a powerful tool for access to information,
both supporting and facilitated by dynamics between learners.

I believe that the pedagogies it can be inspired of are that of Piaget, 
Montessori, ...

And as Marco underlined, hardly any new self learning ( or mutual learning ) 
approaches.

What is new, is possibly broader mainstream recognition, possibly supported by 
the more widespread usage and interconnection of information technologies 
globally, and in peoples lifestyles, facilitating a shift away of "the expert", 
or "the teacher" as monopoly in terms of knowledge.

Such approaches have been cen

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Anna Harris]

th arts, humanities and especially the social/cultural/emotional learning
>> not developed with this priority or technological "default".
>>
>> Anyway, more is available on this on the TEF website, but particularly
>> the *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
>> "209.172.54.115" claiming to be TEF 
>> Principles*<http://209.172.54.115/web/guest/principles>.
>>  There is a serious caution here about just how much and what exactly, the
>> "machines" can and do teach when used primarily? So much cheaper though,
>> for those trying to go into the field of education for their own profit and
>> on top of it, leaves out those more philosophical, even human justice and
>> equity arguments that actually really matter for children around the world
>> to ultimately make sense of their lives and societies.
>>
>> Best,
>> June
>> *June Gorman, Educator and Educational Theorist*
>> Co-founder*, **MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
>> "209.172.54.115" claiming to be <http://209.172.54.115/>MailScanner has
>> detected a possible fraud attempt from "209.172.54.115" claiming to be 
>> Transformative
>> Education Forum (note website re-work, so ignore "non-standard"
>> notification :-)*
>> Education Advisor,  <http://www.safepla.net/>
>> *UN SafePlanet Campaign *
>> *Board Project Director for Outreach, I**nternational Model United
>> Nations Association* <http://imuna.org/>* *
>> *Steering Committee, (UNESCO/Global Compact) **K-12 Sector for
>> Sustainability Education *<http://www.uspartnership.org/main/view_archive/1>
>> Member, UN Education Caucus for Sustainable Development
>> Member, UN Commons Cluster
>>
>>
>>   --
>>  *From:* Michel Bauwens 
>> *To:* p2p-foundation 
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 4:03 AM
>> *Subject:* [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* 
>> Date: Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 2:16 AM
>> Subject: Wired : learner centered movement
>> To: "econow...@googlegroups.com" , "
>> netention-...@googlegroups.com" , "
>> global-survi...@googlegroups.com" 
>>
>>
>> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/*
>> *
>> *a new breed of educators, inspired by everything from the Internet to
>> evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and AI, are inventing radical new
>> ways for children to learn, grow, and thrive. To them, knowledge isn’t a
>> commodity that’s delivered from teacher to student but something that
>> emerges from the students’ own curiosity-fueled exploration.*
>> entire article : http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/all/
>> *student centered movement :
>> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/student-centered-movement/*
>> " TED has created a toolkit full of ideas for jumpstarting
>> student-centered learning in your home, local community, or school. It’s
>> called SOLE: How to Bring Self-Organized Learning Environments to Your
>> Community. Download it here <http://www.ted.com/pages/sole_toolkit> and
>> share your story afterward on the SOLE Tumblr<http://tedsole.tumblr.com/>
>> ."
>> further large excerpts :
>> Teachers provide prompts, not answers, and then they step aside so
>> students can teach themselves and one another. They are creating ways for
>> children to discover their passion—and uncovering a generation of geniuses
>> in the process.
>> ...
>> “If you put a computer in front of children and remove all other adult
>> restrictions, they will self-organize around it,” Mitra says, “like bees
>> around a flower.”
>> A charismatic and convincing proselytizer, Mitra has become a darling in
>> the tech world. In early 2013 he won a $1 million grant from TED, the
>> global ideas conference, to pursue his work.
>> He’s now in the process of establishing seven “schools in the cloud,”
>> five in India and two in the UK. In India, most of his schools are
>> single-room buildings. There will be no teachers, curriculum, or separation
>> into age groups—just six or so computers and a woman to look after the
>> kids’ safety. His defining principle: “The children are completely in
>> charge.”
>> Mitra argues that the information revolution has enabled a style of
>> learning that wasn’t possible before.
>> ...
>> Mitra’s work has roots in educational practices dating back to Soc

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Dante-Gabryell Monson]

Hi June,

Thanks for your reply,

I personally do not see this as a replacement of humans by the machines.

I rather see the internet as a powerful tool for access to information,
both supporting and facilitated by dynamics between learners.

I believe that the pedagogies it can be inspired of are that of Piaget,
Montessori, ...

And as Marco underlined, hardly any new self learning ( or mutual learning
) approaches.

What is new, is possibly broader mainstream recognition, possibly supported
by the more widespread usage and interconnection of information
technologies globally, and in peoples lifestyles, facilitating a shift away
of "the expert", or "the teacher" as monopoly in terms of knowledge.

Such approaches have been central in my own learning - up to a point where
I felt I could learn faster / feel less alienated in my learning by leaving
school.

The challenge, then, for me at least, is to build up recognition through
networked approaches, with peers, rather then through top down ,
centralized certification programs and education environments.

Although one may argue that the tests could at some point confirm the
acquired ( self ) learning, the self learner ( or rather, the mutual
learners in self organizing approaches ) does not, contrary to official
enrolled students, benefit from such "student" status, and at least in my
experience, faces pressures from society, even if only in terms of lack of
support.

Cordially,
Dante


On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:37 PM, June Gorman wrote:

> Dante-Gabryell --
>
> This is wonderful stuff.  I know of Mitra's work and find it exciting.
>  Some of us in the UN Commons Cluster are working on these ideas as well
> and how they fit into education of and about all the Commons.
>
> But as a 30+ year (Western-US) teacher and the founder of the 
> *<http://209.172.54.115/>MailScanner
> has detected a possible fraud attempt from "209.172.54.115" claiming to be 
> Transformative
> Education Forum *, I would caution at the over-enthusiasm of the
> computer-focused translation of this idea of "learner-centered".  It is
> clearly an amazing and freeing tool in countless ways besides providing the
> "Library of the World" to any child, nearly anywhere with access to one.
>  But it reduces dangerously the historical, pedagogical and epistemological
> theories of learning and the human child themselves, down to dangerously
> reductive concepts of what in fact is most important "to learn".  Whose
> "information" gets processed and with what underlying results?
>
> It is one of my deepest concerns with the over-promotion of STEM (Science,
> Technology, Engineering and Math) in the Western world, dramatically by
> "education promoting companies" who want to sell this model to everyone
> else as the US is currently doing promoting "No Child Left Behind"
> worldwide through the World Bank and Brookings Institute.  But for those of
> us in the education field all our life, there is definite need to examine
> these issues, like certain brain theory results accompanying early child
> exposure to computers as their dominant learner - interaction.  The TEF
> tries to address this issue of needed complete intelligence development
> with arts, humanities and especially the social/cultural/emotional learning
> not developed with this priority or technological "default".
>
> Anyway, more is available on this on the TEF website, but particularly the
> *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "209.172.54.115"
> claiming to be* TEF Principles<http://209.172.54.115/web/guest/principles>.
>  There is a serious caution here about just how much and what exactly, the
> "machines" can and do teach when used primarily? So much cheaper though,
> for those trying to go into the field of education for their own profit and
> on top of it, leaves out those more philosophical, even human justice and
> equity arguments that actually really matter for children around the world
> to ultimately make sense of their lives and societies.
>
> Best,
> June
> *June Gorman, Educator and Educational Theorist*
> Co-founder*, ** <http://209.172.54.115/>MailScanner has detected a
> possible fraud attempt from "209.172.54.115" claiming to be Transformative
> Education Forum (note website re-work, so ignore "non-standard"
> notification :-)*
> Education Advisor,  <http://www.safepla.net/>
> *UN SafePlanet Campaign *
> *Board Project Director for Outreach, I**nternational Model United
> Nations Association* <http://imuna.org/>* *
> *Steering Committee, (UNESCO/Global Compact) **K-12 Sector for
> Sustainability Education *<http://www.uspartnership.org/main/view_arc

Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[M. Fioretti]

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 13:03:27 PM +0200, Michel Bauwens wrote:
 
> http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/
> 
> a new breed of educators, inspired by everything from the Internet
> to evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and AI, are inventing
> radical new ways for children to learn, grow, and thrive...
> ...

hardly "radical new". As I tweeted when I first found that piece, this
sounds a lot like Scouting as it was meant to be since 1907. Compare:

> Teachers provide prompts, not answers, and then they step aside so
> students can teach themselves and one another.

with, just to name the first 3 pages I found in a 1-minute search:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_method#Self-learning

or "Learning through doing" in

http://infed.org/mobi/robert-baden-powell-as-an-educational-innovator/

and "progressive self-education" in
http://scoutdocs.ca/Documents/Fundamental_Principles.php

Marco

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Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[June Gorman]

Dante-Gabryell --

This is wonderful stuff.  I know of Mitra's work and find it exciting.  Some of 
us in the UN Commons Cluster are working on these ideas as well and how they 
fit into education of and about all the Commons.

But as a 30+ year (Western-US) teacher and the founder of the Transformative 
Education Forum , I would caution at the over-enthusiasm of the 
computer-focused translation of this idea of "learner-centered".  It is clearly 
an amazing and freeing tool in countless ways besides providing the "Library of 
the World" to any child, nearly anywhere with access to one.  But it reduces 
dangerously the historical, pedagogical and epistemological theories of 
learning and the human child themselves, down to dangerously reductive concepts 
of what in fact is most important "to learn".  Whose "information" gets 
processed and with what underlying results?

It is one of my deepest concerns with the over-promotion of STEM (Science, 
Technology, Engineering and Math) in the Western world, dramatically by 
"education promoting companies" who want to sell this model to everyone else as 
the US is currently doing promoting "No Child Left Behind" worldwide through 
the World Bank and Brookings Institute.  But for those of us in the education 
field all our life, there is definite need to examine these issues, like 
certain brain theory results accompanying early child exposure to computers as 
their dominant learner - interaction.  The TEF tries to address this issue of 
needed complete intelligence development with arts, humanities and especially 
the social/cultural/emotional learning not developed with this priority or 
technological "default".

Anyway, more is available on this on the TEF website, but particularly the TEF 
Principles.  There is a serious caution here about just how much and what 
exactly, the "machines" can and do teach when used primarily? So much cheaper 
though, for those trying to go into the field of education for their own profit 
and on top of it, leaves out those more philosophical, even human justice and 
equity arguments that actually really matter for children around the world to 
ultimately make sense of their lives and societies.

Best,
June
June Gorman, Educator and Educational Theorist

Co-founder, Transformative Education Forum (note website re-work, so ignore 
"non-standard" notification :-)
Education Advisor, UN SafePlanet Campaign 
Board Project Director for Outreach, International Model United Nations 
Association 
Steering Committee, (UNESCO/Global Compact) K-12 Sector for Sustainability 
Education 
Member, UN Education Caucus for Sustainable Development
Member, UN Commons Cluster



____
 From: Michel Bauwens 
To: p2p-foundation  
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 4:03 AM
Subject: [P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement
 





-- Forwarded message --
From: Dante-Gabryell Monson 
Date: Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 2:16 AM
Subject: Wired : learner centered movement
To: "econow...@googlegroups.com" , 
"netention-...@googlegroups.com" , 
"global-survi...@googlegroups.com" 



http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/

a new breed of educators, inspired by everything from the Internet to 
evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and AI, are inventing radical new ways 
for children to learn, grow, and thrive. To them, knowledge isn’t a commodity 
that’s delivered from teacher to student but something that emerges from the 
students’ own curiosity-fueled exploration. 

entire article : http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/all/

student centered movement : 
http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/student-centered-movement/

" TED has created a toolkit full of ideas for jumpstarting student-centered 
learning in your home, local community, or school. It’s called SOLE: How to 
Bring Self-Organized Learning Environments to Your Community. Download it here 
and share your story afterward on the SOLE Tumblr."
further large excerpts :

Teachers provide prompts, not answers, and then they step aside so students can 
teach themselves and one another. They are creating ways for children to 
discover their passion—and uncovering a generation of geniuses in the process. 
...
“If you put a computer in front of children and remove all other adult 
restrictions, they will self-organize around it,” Mitra says, “like bees around 
a flower.”
A charismatic and convincing proselytizer, Mitra has become a darling in the 
tech world. In early 2013 he won a $1 million grant from TED, the global ideas 
conference, to pursue his work.  
He’s now in the process of establishing seven “schools in the cloud,” five in 
India and two in the UK. In India, most of his schools are single-room 
buildings. There will be no teachers, curriculum, or separation into age 
groups—just six or so comput

[P2P-F] Fwd: Wired : learner centered movement

[Michel Bauwens]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Dante-Gabryell Monson 
Date: Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 2:16 AM
Subject: Wired : learner centered movement
To: "econow...@googlegroups.com" , "
netention-...@googlegroups.com" , "
global-survi...@googlegroups.com" 


http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/*
*

*a new breed of educators, inspired by everything from the Internet to
evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and AI, are inventing radical new
ways for children to learn, grow, and thrive. To them, knowledge isn’t a
commodity that’s delivered from teacher to student but something that
emerges from the students’ own curiosity-fueled exploration.*

entire article : http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/free-thinkers/all/

*student centered movement :
http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/student-centered-movement/*

" TED has created a toolkit full of ideas for jumpstarting student-centered
learning in your home, local community, or school. It’s called SOLE: How to
Bring Self-Organized Learning Environments to Your Community. Download it
here  and share your story afterward
on the SOLE Tumblr ."

further large excerpts :

Teachers provide prompts, not answers, and then they step aside so students
can teach themselves and one another. They are creating ways for children
to discover their passion—and uncovering a generation of geniuses in the
process.

...

“If you put a computer in front of children and remove all other adult
restrictions, they will self-organize around it,” Mitra says, “like bees
around a flower.”

A charismatic and convincing proselytizer, Mitra has become a darling in
the tech world. In early 2013 he won a $1 million grant from TED, the
global ideas conference, to pursue his work.

He’s now in the process of establishing seven “schools in the cloud,” five
in India and two in the UK. In India, most of his schools are single-room
buildings. There will be no teachers, curriculum, or separation into age
groups—just six or so computers and a woman to look after the kids’ safety.
His defining principle: “The children are completely in charge.”

Mitra argues that the information revolution has enabled a style of
learning that wasn’t possible before.

...

Mitra’s work has roots in educational practices dating back to Socrates.
Theorists from Johann Heinrich Pestalozzi to Jean Piaget and Maria
Montessori have argued that students should learn by playing and following
their curiosity.

...

In recent years, researchers have begun backing up those theories with
evidence. In a 2011 study, scientists at the University of Illinois at
Urbana-Champaign and the University of Iowa scanned the brain activity of
16 people sitting in front of a computer screen.

...

The study found that when the subjects controlled their own observations,
they exhibited more coordination between the hippocampus and other parts of
the brain involved in learning and posted a 23 percent improvement in their
ability to remember objects. “The bottom line is, if you’re not the one
who’s controlling your learning, you’re not going to learn as well,” says
lead researcher Joel Voss, now a neuroscientist at Northwestern University.

...

A similar study at UC Berkeley demonstrated that kids given no instruction
were much more likely to come up with novel solutions to a problem. “The
science is brand-new, but it’s not as if people didn’t have this intuition
before,” says coauthor Alison Gopnik, a professor of psychology at UC
Berkeley.

Gopnik’s research is informed in part by advances in artificial
intelligence. If you program a robot’s every movement, she says, it can’t
adapt to anything unexpected. But when scientists build machines that are
programmed to try a variety of motions and learn from mistakes, the robots
become far more adaptable and skilled. The same principle applies to
children, she says.

...

Evolutionary psychologists have also begun exploring this way of thinking.
Peter Gray, a research professor at Boston College who studies children’s
natural ways of learning, argues that human cognitive machinery is
fundamentally incompatible with conventional schooling. Gray points out
that young children, motivated by curiosity and playfulness, teach
themselves a tremendous amount about the world. And yet when they reach
school age, we supplant that innate drive to learn with an imposed
curriculum. “We’re teaching the child that his questions don’t matter, that
what matters are the questions of the curriculum. That’s just not the way
natural selection designed us to learn. It designed us to solve problems
and figure things out that are part of our real lives.”

Some school systems have begun to adapt to this new philosophy—with outsize
results. In the 1990s, Finland pared the country’s elementary math
curriculum from about 25 pages to four, reduced the school day by an hour,
and focused on independence and active learning. By 2003, Finnish students
had