Re: [Pacemaker] node can't join cluster after reboot

2012-11-05 Thread Patrick Irvine

Hi Vlad,

No I haven't.  2.34 wasn't available when I had the problem.  FYI I'm 
still using glib-2.30.3 and I'll probably stay there until 3.34.0 is 
stable or 2.32.4-r2 comes out :)


Pat.

On 05/11/2012 7:57 AM, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

Patrick,

Gentoo devs suggested trying >=dev-libs/glib-2.34. Have you tried this
already?

Regards,
Vlad.

On Sun, 2012-11-04 at 08:45 -0800, Patrick Irvine wrote:

Hey Guys,

Just for the record, I just noticed this thread and it sounded familiar.
I checked my gentoo systems and I had to mask glib-2.32.4-r1 and use
glib-2.30.3 in order to get corosync/pacemaker to work.  I had the same
problem.  Nodes couldn't talk to each other.  Sorry I didn't notice this
thread earlier, as I might have been able to help.

Pat.


On 04/11/2012 3:15 AM, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

Thanks for the explanation. I saw coredumps in the directories you
mentioned already. The "suspicious -r1" includes two patches over
vanilla version of glib:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679306
http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/dev-libs/glib/files/glib-2.32.4-CVE-2012-3524.patch?view=markup
For the moment I simply masked this particular glib version. Hopefully
I'll be able to find time to do a complete debug as you described.

Regards,
Vlad.

On Sun, 2012-11-04 at 13:54 +0300, Vladislav Bogdanov wrote:

03.11.2012 18:22, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

Vladislav,

Thanks for the hint! Upgrading glig from 2.30.3 to 2.32.4 triggers this
behavior of corosync. Do you know where I can find more info regarding
this problem?

That is not corosync but pacemaker, which heavily uses glib internally.
And glib is the only package in your list which may affect pacemaker.
I would say that is a regression in that specific glib version or build.
Library behavior changed without bumping major so-number.
You'd better talk to your distribution maintainers. And -r1 looks
suspicious in glib version you installed. Don't you know what does it mean?
One more note, cib exits with signal 6 (SIGABRT), which usually means
you hit some assert in code. That usually results in memory dump. Look
at /var/lib/heartbeat/cores or /var/lib/pacemaker/cores if you have
relevant core files for that. If not, then you need to enable coredumps.
Then install debuginfo packages for pacemaker and glib (that is very
distribution specific, so I cannot help with that). After that you can
analyze relevant core files with 'gdb 
'
Just run 'bt full' and that should be enough to find what exactly code
path caused SIGABRT.

Vladislav


Vlad.

On Sat, 2012-11-03 at 16:22 +0300, Vladislav Bogdanov wrote:

03.11.2012 15:26, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

I've been able to reproduce the problem. Herewith I've attached
crm_report tarballs from both nodes. Although I don't know what
particular package triggers this problem, but below is the list of what
has been updated. Hopefully this helps.

I bet that is glib.

Vladislav


Regards,
Vlad.

Sat Nov  3 12:15:40 2012 <<< sys-apps/busybox-1.20.2
Sat Nov  3 12:15:42 2012 >>> sys-apps/busybox-1.20.2
Sat Nov  3 12:15:50 2012 <<< sys-fs/dosfstools-3.0.9
Sat Nov  3 12:15:52 2012 >>> sys-fs/dosfstools-3.0.12
Sat Nov  3 12:16:00 2012 <<< dev-lang/nasm-2.10.01
Sat Nov  3 12:16:02 2012 >>> dev-lang/nasm-2.10.05
Sat Nov  3 12:16:11 2012 <<< dev-libs/libgamin-0.1.10-r2
Sat Nov  3 12:16:13 2012 >>> dev-libs/libgamin-0.1.10-r3
Sat Nov  3 12:16:40 2012 <<< media-fonts/droid-113-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:16:46 2012 >>> media-fonts/droid-113-r2
Sat Nov  3 12:16:54 2012 <<< media-libs/libpng-1.5.10
Sat Nov  3 12:16:56 2012 >>> media-libs/libpng-1.5.13-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:04 2012 <<< app-arch/unzip-6.0-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:05 2012 >>> app-arch/unzip-6.0-r3
Sat Nov  3 12:17:12 2012 <<< app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0.0.4g
Sat Nov  3 12:17:14 2012 >>> app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0.0.5g
Sat Nov  3 12:17:22 2012 <<< app-arch/pbzip2-1.1.5
Sat Nov  3 12:17:24 2012 >>> app-arch/pbzip2-1.1.8
Sat Nov  3 12:17:34 2012 <<< app-arch/zip-3.0
Sat Nov  3 12:17:35 2012 >>> app-arch/zip-3.0-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:43 2012 <<< sys-process/htop-1.0.1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:45 2012 >>> sys-process/htop-1.0.1-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:55 2012 <<< media-libs/tiff-4.0.2
Sat Nov  3 12:17:57 2012 >>> media-libs/tiff-4.0.2-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:04 2012 <<< net-ftp/tftp-hpa-5.1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:06 2012 >>> net-ftp/tftp-hpa-5.2
Sat Nov  3 12:18:18 2012 <<< media-video/ffmpeg-0.10.3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:20 2012 >>> media-video/ffmpeg-0.10.3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:35 2012 <<< sys-devel/gettext-0.18.1.1-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:37 2012 >>> sys-devel/gettext-0.18.1.1-r3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:44 2012 <<< app-admin/logrotate-3.8.1
Sat 

Re: [Pacemaker] node can't join cluster after reboot

2012-11-04 Thread Patrick Irvine

Hey Guys,

Just for the record, I just noticed this thread and it sounded familiar. 
  I checked my gentoo systems and I had to mask glib-2.32.4-r1 and use 
glib-2.30.3 in order to get corosync/pacemaker to work.  I had the same 
problem.  Nodes couldn't talk to each other.  Sorry I didn't notice this 
thread earlier, as I might have been able to help.


Pat.


On 04/11/2012 3:15 AM, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

Thanks for the explanation. I saw coredumps in the directories you
mentioned already. The "suspicious -r1" includes two patches over
vanilla version of glib:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679306
http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/dev-libs/glib/files/glib-2.32.4-CVE-2012-3524.patch?view=markup
For the moment I simply masked this particular glib version. Hopefully
I'll be able to find time to do a complete debug as you described.

Regards,
Vlad.

On Sun, 2012-11-04 at 13:54 +0300, Vladislav Bogdanov wrote:

03.11.2012 18:22, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

Vladislav,

Thanks for the hint! Upgrading glig from 2.30.3 to 2.32.4 triggers this
behavior of corosync. Do you know where I can find more info regarding
this problem?

That is not corosync but pacemaker, which heavily uses glib internally.
And glib is the only package in your list which may affect pacemaker.
I would say that is a regression in that specific glib version or build.
Library behavior changed without bumping major so-number.
You'd better talk to your distribution maintainers. And -r1 looks
suspicious in glib version you installed. Don't you know what does it mean?
One more note, cib exits with signal 6 (SIGABRT), which usually means
you hit some assert in code. That usually results in memory dump. Look
at /var/lib/heartbeat/cores or /var/lib/pacemaker/cores if you have
relevant core files for that. If not, then you need to enable coredumps.
Then install debuginfo packages for pacemaker and glib (that is very
distribution specific, so I cannot help with that). After that you can
analyze relevant core files with 'gdb 
'
Just run 'bt full' and that should be enough to find what exactly code
path caused SIGABRT.

Vladislav


Vlad.

On Sat, 2012-11-03 at 16:22 +0300, Vladislav Bogdanov wrote:

03.11.2012 15:26, Vladimir Elisseev wrote:

I've been able to reproduce the problem. Herewith I've attached
crm_report tarballs from both nodes. Although I don't know what
particular package triggers this problem, but below is the list of what
has been updated. Hopefully this helps.

I bet that is glib.

Vladislav


Regards,
Vlad.

Sat Nov  3 12:15:40 2012 <<< sys-apps/busybox-1.20.2
Sat Nov  3 12:15:42 2012 >>> sys-apps/busybox-1.20.2
Sat Nov  3 12:15:50 2012 <<< sys-fs/dosfstools-3.0.9
Sat Nov  3 12:15:52 2012 >>> sys-fs/dosfstools-3.0.12
Sat Nov  3 12:16:00 2012 <<< dev-lang/nasm-2.10.01
Sat Nov  3 12:16:02 2012 >>> dev-lang/nasm-2.10.05
Sat Nov  3 12:16:11 2012 <<< dev-libs/libgamin-0.1.10-r2
Sat Nov  3 12:16:13 2012 >>> dev-libs/libgamin-0.1.10-r3
Sat Nov  3 12:16:40 2012 <<< media-fonts/droid-113-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:16:46 2012 >>> media-fonts/droid-113-r2
Sat Nov  3 12:16:54 2012 <<< media-libs/libpng-1.5.10
Sat Nov  3 12:16:56 2012 >>> media-libs/libpng-1.5.13-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:04 2012 <<< app-arch/unzip-6.0-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:05 2012 >>> app-arch/unzip-6.0-r3
Sat Nov  3 12:17:12 2012 <<< app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0.0.4g
Sat Nov  3 12:17:14 2012 >>> app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0.0.5g
Sat Nov  3 12:17:22 2012 <<< app-arch/pbzip2-1.1.5
Sat Nov  3 12:17:24 2012 >>> app-arch/pbzip2-1.1.8
Sat Nov  3 12:17:34 2012 <<< app-arch/zip-3.0
Sat Nov  3 12:17:35 2012 >>> app-arch/zip-3.0-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:43 2012 <<< sys-process/htop-1.0.1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:45 2012 >>> sys-process/htop-1.0.1-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:17:55 2012 <<< media-libs/tiff-4.0.2
Sat Nov  3 12:17:57 2012 >>> media-libs/tiff-4.0.2-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:04 2012 <<< net-ftp/tftp-hpa-5.1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:06 2012 >>> net-ftp/tftp-hpa-5.2
Sat Nov  3 12:18:18 2012 <<< media-video/ffmpeg-0.10.3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:20 2012 >>> media-video/ffmpeg-0.10.3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:35 2012 <<< sys-devel/gettext-0.18.1.1-r1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:37 2012 >>> sys-devel/gettext-0.18.1.1-r3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:44 2012 <<< app-admin/logrotate-3.8.1
Sat Nov  3 12:18:46 2012 >>> app-admin/logrotate-3.8.2
Sat Nov  3 12:18:54 2012 <<< media-libs/libwebp-0.1.3
Sat Nov  3 12:18:55 2012 >>> media-libs/libwebp-0.2.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:03 2012 <<< dev-perl/Convert-ASN1-0.220.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:05 2012 >>> dev-perl/Convert-ASN1-0.260.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:13 2012 <<< dev-perl/net-server-0.97
Sat Nov  3 12:19:15 2012 >>> dev-perl/net-server-2.6.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:24 2012 <<< dev-perl/Config-IniFiles-2.710.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:26 2012 >>> dev-perl/Config-IniFiles-2.760.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:33 2012 <<< dev-perl/HTTP-Date-6.0.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:35 2012 >>> dev-perl/HTTP-Date-6.20.0
Sat Nov  3 12:19:44 2012 <<< sys-boot/syslinux-4.06_pre11
Sat Nov  3 12:19:46 2012 >>> sys-boot/syslinux-4.06
Sat Nov  3 12:20:05 2012 <<< dev-libs/glib-2.30.3
S

Re: [Pacemaker] order constraint based on any one of many

2010-09-02 Thread Patrick Irvine


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Beekhof [mailto:and...@beekhof.net] 
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 12:03 AM
To: The Pacemaker cluster resource manager
Subject: Re: [Pacemaker] order constraint based on any one of many

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Patrick Irvine  wrote:
>
> Hi, and thanks for the response.
>
> The issue is this.  Glfs must be restricted from starting until at least
one
> of the glfsd clones has started.  The glfsd clones provide the backed
> storage for the glfs mounts.  So glfsd doesn't really need to be a M/S.
> This is just a way I came up with to make glfs wait for any single glfsd
as
> opposed to waiting for all glfsd clones.
>
> What I really need is some order constraint ( or some other mechanism)
that
> is like the logic below (to use some C syntax)
>
> If ( glfsd-1 || glfsd-2 || glfsd-3 || glfsd-4 ) then start glfs-clones
>

We want to support this, but the feature isn't fully baked yet.
For now what you've done is the only way.

Thanks Andrew, I'll go ahead with the m/s plan.  Btw thanks for all your
hard work!

Pat.

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Re: [Pacemaker] order constraint based on any one of many

2010-08-27 Thread Patrick Irvine


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Beekhof [mailto:and...@beekhof.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 7:24 AM
To: The Pacemaker cluster resource manager
Subject: Re: [Pacemaker] order constraint based on any one of many

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:03 AM, Patrick Irvine  wrote:
> Hi Vishal & list,
>
> Thanks for the info.  Unfortuantly that won't due since this clone (glfs)
is
> the actual mounting of the user's home directorys and needs to be mounted
> whither the local glfsd(server) is running or not.  I do think I have a
> solution, it's some what of a hack.
>
> If I turn my glfsd-x (servers) into a single master with multiple slaves
> (cloned resources) then I could order the glfs(client) clone after the
> master starts
>
> ie.
>
> order glfs-after-glfsd-ORDER    inf: clone-glfsd:master clone-glfs
>
> this would achive what I want I think,
>
> I would ofcourse have to insure that even if only one of the glfs-x
servers
> is running, it would be master.
>
> any comments?

that should work, though i dont really understand why glfsd cant just
be a regular clone.
why would it need to be a master/slave?

also a possibility is to clone the glfsd group (ie. glfsd-1-GROUP) -
the trick is making the IPaddr agent factor in the clone number when
deciding which IP to start.
there should be something like that in IPaddr or IPaddr2 but it may
not be fully baked.

> (and was I understandable?)

yes :-)

Hi, and thanks for the response.

The issue is this.  Glfs must be restricted from starting until at least one
of the glfsd clones has started.  The glfsd clones provide the backed
storage for the glfs mounts.  So glfsd doesn't really need to be a M/S.
This is just a way I came up with to make glfs wait for any single glfsd as
opposed to waiting for all glfsd clones.

What I really need is some order constraint ( or some other mechanism) that
is like the logic below (to use some C syntax)

If ( glfsd-1 || glfsd-2 || glfsd-3 || glfsd-4 ) then start glfs-clones

Thanks again for the reply

Pat

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http://developerbugs.linux-foundation.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Pacemaker


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Re: [Pacemaker] order constraint based on any one of many

2010-08-23 Thread Patrick Irvine

Hi Vishal & list,

Thanks for the info.  Unfortuantly that won't due since this clone 
(glfs) is the actual mounting of the user's home directorys and needs to 
be mounted whither the local glfsd(server) is running or not.  I do 
think I have a solution, it's some what of a hack.


If I turn my glfsd-x (servers) into a single master with multiple slaves 
(cloned resources) then I could order the glfs(client) clone after the 
master starts


ie.

order glfs-after-glfsd-ORDERinf: clone-glfsd:master clone-glfs

this would achive what I want I think,

I would ofcourse have to insure that even if only one of the glfs-x 
servers is running, it would be master.


any comments?  (and was I understandable?)

Pat.

On 23/08/2010 12:49 AM, Vishal wrote:
From what I have read and understood a clone will run simultaneously 
on all the nodes specified in the config . I donot see how a clone 
will run once a resource group is started . You can alternatively add 
the clone to each group and ensure when either group starts , the 
clone runs with it.


On Aug 23, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Patrick Irvine  wrote:


Hi,

I am setting up a Pacemaker/Corosync/Glusterfs HA cluster set.

Pacemaker ver. 1.0.9.1

With Glusterfs I have 4 nodes serving replicated (RAID1) storage 
back-ends and up to 5 servers mounting the store.  With out getting 
into the specifics of how Gluster works, simply put, as long as any 
one of the 4 backed nodes are running, all of the 5 servers will be 
able to mount the store.


I have started setting up a testing cluster and have the following: 
(crm configure show output)


node test1
node test2
node test3
node test4
primitive glfs ocf:cybersites:glusterfs \
  params volfile="repstore.vol" mount_dir="/home" \
  op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30"
primitive glfsd-1 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
  params volfile="glfs.vol" \
  op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
  meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-1-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
  params ip="192.168.5.221" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
  op monitor interval="5s"
primitive glfsd-2 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
  params volfile="glfs.vol" \
  op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
  meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-2-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
  params ip="192.168.5.222" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
  op monitor interval="5s" \
  meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-3 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
  params volfile="glfs.vol" \
  op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
  meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-3-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
  params ip="192.168.5.223" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
  op monitor interval="5s"
primitive glfsd-4 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
  params volfile="glfs.vol" \
  op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
  meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-4-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
  params ip="192.168.5.224" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
  op monitor interval="5s"
group glfsd-1-GROUP glfsd-1-IP glfsd-1
group glfsd-2-GROUP glfsd-2-IP glfsd-2
group glfsd-3-GROUP glfsd-3-IP glfsd-3
group glfsd-4-GROUP glfsd-4-IP glfsd-4
clone clone-glfs glfs \
  meta clone-max="4" clone-node-max="1" target-role="Started"
location block-glfsd-1-GROUP-test2 glfsd-1-GROUP -inf: test2
location block-glfsd-1-GROUP-test3 glfsd-1-GROUP -inf: test3
location block-glfsd-1-GROUP-test4 glfsd-1-GROUP -inf: test4
location block-glfsd-2-GROUP-test1 glfsd-2-GROUP -inf: test1
location block-glfsd-2-GROUP-test3 glfsd-2-GROUP -inf: test3
location block-glfsd-2-GROUP-test4 glfsd-2-GROUP -inf: test4
location block-glfsd-3-GROUP-test1 glfsd-3-GROUP -inf: test1
location block-glfsd-3-GROUP-test2 glfsd-3-GROUP -inf: test2
location block-glfsd-3-GROUP-test4 glfsd-3-GROUP -inf: test4
location block-glfsd-4-GROUP-test1 glfsd-4-GROUP -inf: test1
location block-glfsd-4-GROUP-test2 glfsd-4-GROUP -inf: test2
location block-glfsd-4-GROUP-test3 glfsd-4-GROUP -inf: test3


now I need a way of saying that clone-glfs can start once any of 
glfsd-1, glfsd-2,glfsd-3 or glfsd-4 have started.


Any ideas.  I have read the crm cli document, as well of many 
iterations of the clusters from scratch, etc.


I just can't seem to find an answer.  can it be done?

Pat.

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Bug

[Pacemaker] order constraint based on any one of many

2010-08-22 Thread Patrick Irvine

Hi,

I am setting up a Pacemaker/Corosync/Glusterfs HA cluster set.

Pacemaker ver. 1.0.9.1

With Glusterfs I have 4 nodes serving replicated (RAID1) storage 
back-ends and up to 5 servers mounting the store.  With out getting into 
the specifics of how Gluster works, simply put, as long as any one of 
the 4 backed nodes are running, all of the 5 servers will be able to 
mount the store.


I have started setting up a testing cluster and have the following: (crm 
configure show output)


node test1
node test2
node test3
node test4
primitive glfs ocf:cybersites:glusterfs \
params volfile="repstore.vol" mount_dir="/home" \
op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30"
primitive glfsd-1 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
params volfile="glfs.vol" \
op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-1-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
params ip="192.168.5.221" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
op monitor interval="5s"
primitive glfsd-2 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
params volfile="glfs.vol" \
op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-2-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
params ip="192.168.5.222" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
op monitor interval="5s" \
meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-3 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
params volfile="glfs.vol" \
op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-3-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
params ip="192.168.5.223" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
op monitor interval="5s"
primitive glfsd-4 ocf:cybersites:glusterfsd \
params volfile="glfs.vol" \
op monitor interval="10s" timeout="30" \
meta target-role="Started"
primitive glfsd-4-IP ocf:heartbeat:IPaddr2 \
params ip="192.168.5.224" nic="eth1" cidr_netmask="24" \
op monitor interval="5s"
group glfsd-1-GROUP glfsd-1-IP glfsd-1
group glfsd-2-GROUP glfsd-2-IP glfsd-2
group glfsd-3-GROUP glfsd-3-IP glfsd-3
group glfsd-4-GROUP glfsd-4-IP glfsd-4
clone clone-glfs glfs \
meta clone-max="4" clone-node-max="1" target-role="Started"
location block-glfsd-1-GROUP-test2 glfsd-1-GROUP -inf: test2
location block-glfsd-1-GROUP-test3 glfsd-1-GROUP -inf: test3
location block-glfsd-1-GROUP-test4 glfsd-1-GROUP -inf: test4
location block-glfsd-2-GROUP-test1 glfsd-2-GROUP -inf: test1
location block-glfsd-2-GROUP-test3 glfsd-2-GROUP -inf: test3
location block-glfsd-2-GROUP-test4 glfsd-2-GROUP -inf: test4
location block-glfsd-3-GROUP-test1 glfsd-3-GROUP -inf: test1
location block-glfsd-3-GROUP-test2 glfsd-3-GROUP -inf: test2
location block-glfsd-3-GROUP-test4 glfsd-3-GROUP -inf: test4
location block-glfsd-4-GROUP-test1 glfsd-4-GROUP -inf: test1
location block-glfsd-4-GROUP-test2 glfsd-4-GROUP -inf: test2
location block-glfsd-4-GROUP-test3 glfsd-4-GROUP -inf: test3


now I need a way of saying that clone-glfs can start once any of 
glfsd-1, glfsd-2,glfsd-3 or glfsd-4 have started.


Any ideas.  I have read the crm cli document, as well of many iterations 
of the clusters from scratch, etc.


I just can't seem to find an answer.  can it be done?

Pat.

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