Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-07 Thread Dane Trethowan
Yep point taken or you can just grin and bare it and consider how convenient 
the device might be, at least you can stream your content at the tap of the 
control.

> On 8 Feb 2016, at 8:15 AM, John Gurd  wrote:
> 
> That's a very helpful explanation. So no Voice Over with the Apple TV without 
> resampling. Oh well, at least now we know. I might go ahead and buy the new 
> Apple TV anyway. My wife would probably use some of the apps, so I can 
> pretend it's not really for me. (smiles)
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: 06 February 2016 17:54
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
> sogood...
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I wrote to an audio engineer friend of mine forwarding him the original email 
> from this list written by john and his explanation is an interesting one, 
> certainly the practise is more common it seems than I thought:
> 
>> Unfortunately, this is *very* common practice.  Horrible as it is for decent 
>> audio, forcing everything to one output sampling rate and bit-depth is 
>> unavoidable for the vast majority of consumer hardware, otherwise which 
>> wouldn't be able to support playing multiple simultaneous output streams of 
>> differing formats.  The SoundBlaster Live and above do exactly this in 
>> hardware, which is why SB cards always sounded bloody horrible at anything 
>> other than 48KHz.  XP and above do it in software; OSX and IOS do the same, 
>> as (I imagine) does Android; Linux and BSD do it if you use a Sound Server. 
>> It's an absolutely attrocious way to handle audio, but necessary if you want 
>> the sound device to be able to do more than one thing at a time. 
>> Fortunately, Linux at least can be made to pass the stream directly to the 
>> hardware, but of course the device loses the ability then for multiple 
>> streams for that particular sound device. So, e.g., no speech output wilst 
>> playing music.  If you want the best possible precision and still want 
>> multiple streams, the simplest solution is to install a professional Sound 
>> Server such as Jack Audio Connection Kit (Linux, Win, and (I believe) OSX), 
>> which, although it has to resample, has very high-precision resampling 
>> algorithms, and does a very good job.  Of course, it's more CPU-intensive.
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 8:36 AM, Brent Harding  wrote:
>> 
> 
> 
> So there we are, take it or leave it 
> 
> 
>> I heard the 48k sampling rate is more common in video than it is for music 
>> or anything else. Maybe it's what a TV would expect to see if HDMI is used.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Dane Trethowan" 
>> 
>> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 3:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
>> sogood...
>> 
>> 
>> Well to be perfectly honest that s Apple for you and where would you find 
>> any serious audio reviews about anything Apple?
>> 
>> Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for 
>> my 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won t release too much information 
>> about anything else it seems when it comes to audio.
>> 
>> I m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I m having second 
>> thoughts about that purchase for myself too.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and 
>>> my HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't 
>>> sound that great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that 
>>> for some reason it resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the 
>>> equivalent to transcoding on the fly which is inevitably going to sound 
>>> terrible.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am 
>>> tempted to buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with 
>>> my living room system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been 
>>> able to find out if it handles music in the same way. I haven't even 
>>> been able to find any serious reviews of its audio quality.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> **
>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>> halfwits in this world behind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 

**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.





RE: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-07 Thread John Gurd
That's a very helpful explanation. So no Voice Over with the Apple TV without 
resampling. Oh well, at least now we know. I might go ahead and buy the new 
Apple TV anyway. My wife would probably use some of the apps, so I can pretend 
it's not really for me. (smiles)

John


-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: 06 February 2016 17:54
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
sogood...

Hi!

I wrote to an audio engineer friend of mine forwarding him the original email 
from this list written by john and his explanation is an interesting one, 
certainly the practise is more common it seems than I thought:

> Unfortunately, this is *very* common practice.  Horrible as it is for decent 
> audio, forcing everything to one output sampling rate and bit-depth is 
> unavoidable for the vast majority of consumer hardware, otherwise which 
> wouldn't be able to support playing multiple simultaneous output streams of 
> differing formats.  The SoundBlaster Live and above do exactly this in 
> hardware, which is why SB cards always sounded bloody horrible at anything 
> other than 48KHz.  XP and above do it in software; OSX and IOS do the same, 
> as (I imagine) does Android; Linux and BSD do it if you use a Sound Server. 
> It's an absolutely attrocious way to handle audio, but necessary if you want 
> the sound device to be able to do more than one thing at a time. Fortunately, 
> Linux at least can be made to pass the stream directly to the hardware, but 
> of course the device loses the ability then for multiple streams for that 
> particular sound device. So, e.g., no speech output wilst playing music.  If 
> you want the best possible precision and still want multiple streams, the 
> simplest solution is to install a professional Sound Server such as Jack 
> Audio Connection Kit (Linux, Win, and (I believe) OSX), which, although it 
> has to resample, has very high-precision resampling algorithms, and does a 
> very good job.  Of course, it's more CPU-intensive.

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 8:36 AM, Brent Harding  wrote:
> 


So there we are, take it or leave it 


> I heard the 48k sampling rate is more common in video than it is for music or 
> anything else. Maybe it's what a TV would expect to see if HDMI is used.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dane Trethowan" 
> 
> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
> sogood...
> 
> 
> Well to be perfectly honest that s Apple for you and where would you find any 
> serious audio reviews about anything Apple?
> 
> Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for my 
> 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won t release too much information about 
> anything else it seems when it comes to audio.
> 
> I m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I m having second 
> thoughts about that purchase for myself too.
> 
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:
>> 
>> I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and 
>> my HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't 
>> sound that great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that 
>> for some reason it resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the 
>> equivalent to transcoding on the fly which is inevitably going to sound 
>> terrible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am 
>> tempted to buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with 
>> my living room system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been 
>> able to find out if it handles music in the same way. I haven't even 
>> been able to find any serious reviews of its audio quality.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.






Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-06 Thread Dane Trethowan
Hi!

I wrote to an audio engineer friend of mine forwarding him the original email 
from this list written by john and his explanation is an interesting one, 
certainly the practise is more common it seems than I thought:

> Unfortunately, this is *very* common practice.  Horrible as it is for decent 
> audio, forcing everything to one output sampling rate and bit-depth is 
> unavoidable for the vast majority of consumer hardware, otherwise which 
> wouldn't be able to support playing multiple simultaneous output streams of 
> differing formats.  The SoundBlaster Live and above do exactly this in 
> hardware, which is why SB cards always sounded bloody horrible at anything 
> other than 48KHz.  XP and above do it in software; OSX and IOS do the same, 
> as (I imagine) does Android; Linux and BSD do it if you use a Sound Server. 
> It's an absolutely attrocious way to handle audio, but necessary if you want 
> the sound device to be able to do more than one thing at a time. Fortunately, 
> Linux at least can be made to pass the stream directly to the hardware, but 
> of course the device loses the ability then for multiple streams for that 
> particular sound device. So, e.g., no speech output wilst playing music.  If 
> you want the best possible precision and still want multiple streams, the 
> simplest solution is to install a professional Sound Server such as Jack 
> Audio Connection Kit (Linux, Win, and (I believe) OSX), which, although it 
> has to resample, has very high-precision resampling algorithms, and does a 
> very good job.  Of course, it's more CPU-intensive.

> On 5 Feb 2016, at 8:36 AM, Brent Harding  wrote:
> 


So there we are, take it or leave it 


> I heard the 48k sampling rate is more common in video than it is for music or 
> anything else. Maybe it's what a TV would expect to see if HDMI is used.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dane Trethowan" 
> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
> sogood...
> 
> 
> Well to be perfectly honest that’s Apple for you and where would you find any 
> serious audio reviews about anything Apple?
> 
> Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for my 
> 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won’t release too much information about 
> anything else it seems when it comes to audio.
> 
> I’m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I’m having second 
> thoughts about that purchase for myself too.
> 
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:
>> 
>> I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and my
>> HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't sound that
>> great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that for some reason it
>> resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the equivalent to transcoding
>> on the fly which is inevitably going to sound terrible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am tempted to
>> buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with my living room
>> system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been able to find out if it
>> handles music in the same way. I haven't even been able to find any serious
>> reviews of its audio quality.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.





Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-05 Thread Dane Trethowan
That might be true but all the same the Apple TV really has no need that I can 
tell to convert sampling rates given that equipment connected to it should be 
able to handle sampling rates automatically and in fact conversion could be 
more a nuisance to the output system than its worth.


> On 5 Feb 2016, at 8:36 AM, Brent Harding  wrote:
> 
> I heard the 48k sampling rate is more common in video than it is for music or 
> anything else. Maybe it's what a TV would expect to see if HDMI is used.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dane Trethowan" 
> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
> sogood...
> 
> 
> Well to be perfectly honest that’s Apple for you and where would you find any 
> serious audio reviews about anything Apple?
> 
> Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for my 
> 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won’t release too much information about 
> anything else it seems when it comes to audio.
> 
> I’m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I’m having second 
> thoughts about that purchase for myself too.
> 
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:
>> 
>> I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and my
>> HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't sound that
>> great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that for some reason it
>> resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the equivalent to transcoding
>> on the fly which is inevitably going to sound terrible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am tempted to
>> buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with my living room
>> system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been able to find out if it
>> handles music in the same way. I haven't even been able to find any serious
>> reviews of its audio quality.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.





Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-05 Thread Brent Harding
I heard the 48k sampling rate is more common in video than it is for music 
or anything else. Maybe it's what a TV would expect to see if HDMI is used.


- Original Message - 
From: "Dane Trethowan" 

To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
sogood...



Well to be perfectly honest that’s Apple for you and where would you find 
any serious audio reviews about anything Apple?


Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for 
my 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won’t release too much information 
about anything else it seems when it comes to audio.


I’m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I’m having second 
thoughts about that purchase for myself too.




On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:

I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and my
HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't sound 
that

great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that for some reason it
resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the equivalent to 
transcoding

on the fly which is inevitably going to sound terrible.



The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am tempted 
to

buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with my living room
system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been able to find out if it
handles music in the same way. I haven't even been able to find any 
serious

reviews of its audio quality.



John





**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.








Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-04 Thread Dane Trethowan
Speaking of high quality radio stations, Congratulations to the BBC for giving 
us 320K streams, absolutely brilliant particularly for the Radio 3 service, now 
all the BBC need do is to improve the content.


> On 5 Feb 2016, at 9:14 AM, Les Gordon  wrote:
> 
> i have a apple tv 3rd gen and 4th gen. what i noticed is the sound quality is 
> all dependent upon the original source. they give alot of free radio stations 
> that are great, but it tells you the quality of each and some are streaming 
> in low quality audio. others are in high quality. i noticed a clear 
> difference in the sound.
> - Original Message - From: "Dane Trethowan" 
> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
> sogood...
> 
> 
> Well to be perfectly honest that’s Apple for you and where would you find any 
> serious audio reviews about anything Apple?
> 
> Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for my 
> 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won’t release too much information about 
> anything else it seems when it comes to audio.
> 
> I’m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I’m having second 
> thoughts about that purchase for myself too.
> 
> 
>> On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:
>> 
>> I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and my
>> HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't sound that
>> great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that for some reason it
>> resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the equivalent to transcoding
>> on the fly which is inevitably going to sound terrible.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am tempted to
>> buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with my living room
>> system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been able to find out if it
>> handles music in the same way. I haven't even been able to find any serious
>> reviews of its audio quality.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 

**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.





Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound sogood...

2016-02-04 Thread Les Gordon
i have a apple tv 3rd gen and 4th gen. what i noticed is the sound quality 
is all dependent upon the original source. they give alot of free radio 
stations that are great, but it tells you the quality of each and some are 
streaming in low quality audio. others are in high quality. i noticed a 
clear difference in the sound.
- Original Message - 
From: "Dane Trethowan" 

To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Now I know why music on the Apple TV 3rd Gen doesn't sound 
sogood...



Well to be perfectly honest that’s Apple for you and where would you find 
any serious audio reviews about anything Apple?


Okay, I did find plenty of reviews and information regarding the audio for 
my 2012 Mac Mini machine but Apple just won’t release too much information 
about anything else it seems when it comes to audio.


I’m glad you mentioned that about the Apple TV and now I’m having second 
thoughts about that purchase for myself too.




On 5 Feb 2016, at 5:38 AM, John Gurd  wrote:

I got an Apple TV 3rd Gen a year or so ago to use with MusicMatch and my
HiFi. I was really disappointed to discover that it really didn't sound 
that

great even with a HDMI connection. I recently read that for some reason it
resamples music from 44.1KHZ to 48KHZ. This is the equivalent to 
transcoding

on the fly which is inevitably going to sound terrible.



The thing is, I really love the new Apple music service and I am tempted 
to

buy the Apple TV 4th Gen in order to use the service with my living room
system. But once bitten, twice shy. I haven't been able to find out if it
handles music in the same way. I haven't even been able to find any 
serious

reviews of its audio quality.



John





**
Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
halfwits in this world behind.