Re: [Pce] Lars Eggert's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)
I don’t think that *only* because it was the term we used earlier, that it means we should keep using it forever, see for example RFC 9454 which updates a lot of long-standing LSR terminology. However, in my view “native IP” doesn’t seem to be problematic and none of the suggestions given are as clear, so I’m fine with leaving this as it stands. Thanks, —John > On Dec 14, 2023, at 10:31 AM, julien.meu...@orange.com wrote: > > Hi John, > > I guess Lars points "native" out because it appears in the milestones. > It's there because it's reusing the title of the associated draft, which > is a reference to the title of RFC 8821... > > As I'm not a "native" English speaker, I can't really evaluate how much > offensive the term is. I also see that the NIST table [1] is rather > pragmatic and includes an example of "language taken directly from that > external specification" (on terms that should clearly be precluded). So > I wonder how much effort should be put on that change... > > Thanks, > > Julien > > > [1] > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nist.gov/nist-research-library/nist-technical-series-publications-author-instructions*table1__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!DwqyeJLRj1y9njdmXGnKvoXW1IE3hzqkpVLioIA_jXtlGfDcoiO3YIoY6E81yHMbOSikQJKlV2UXstdt9aFT0A$ > > > On 14/12/2023 15:46, John Scudder wrote: >> I don't see the word "native" in the charter text? >> >> John >> >>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Lars Eggert via Datatracker >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Lars Eggert has entered the following ballot position for >>> charter-ietf-pce-07-04: No Objection >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pce/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e2k3e48x$ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> COMMENT: >>> -- >>> >>> # GEN AD review of charter-ietf-pce-07-04 >>> >>> CC @larseggert >>> >>> ## Comments >>> >>> ### Inclusive language >>> >>> Found terminology that should be reviewed for inclusivity; see >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/part2/*inclusive_language__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e8cFfj-W$ >>> for background and more >>> guidance: >>> >>> * Term `native`; alternatives might be `built-in`, `fundamental`, >>> `ingrained`, >>> `intrinsic`, `original` >>> >>> ## Notes >>> >>> This review is in the ["IETF Comments" Markdown format][ICMF], You can use >>> the >>> [`ietf-comments` tool][ICT] to automatically convert this review into >>> individual GitHub issues. Review generated by the [`ietf-reviewtool`][IRT]. >>> >>> [ICMF]: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments/blob/main/format.md__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e6kYFONU$ >>> [ICT]: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e7EYScuX$ >>> [IRT]: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e-z1ASAx$ >>> >>> >>> > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu > ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete > this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. ___ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
Re: [Pce] Lars Eggert's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)
Hi John, I guess Lars points "native" out because it appears in the milestones. It's there because it's reusing the title of the associated draft, which is a reference to the title of RFC 8821... As I'm not a "native" English speaker, I can't really evaluate how much offensive the term is. I also see that the NIST table [1] is rather pragmatic and includes an example of "language taken directly from that external specification" (on terms that should clearly be precluded). So I wonder how much effort should be put on that change... Thanks, Julien [1] https://www.nist.gov/nist-research-library/nist-technical-series-publications-author-instructions#table1 On 14/12/2023 15:46, John Scudder wrote: I don't see the word "native" in the charter text? John On Dec 14, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Lars Eggert via Datatracker wrote: Lars Eggert has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-pce-07-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pce/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e2k3e48x$ -- COMMENT: -- # GEN AD review of charter-ietf-pce-07-04 CC @larseggert ## Comments ### Inclusive language Found terminology that should be reviewed for inclusivity; see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/part2/*inclusive_language__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e8cFfj-W$ for background and more guidance: * Term `native`; alternatives might be `built-in`, `fundamental`, `ingrained`, `intrinsic`, `original` ## Notes This review is in the ["IETF Comments" Markdown format][ICMF], You can use the [`ietf-comments` tool][ICT] to automatically convert this review into individual GitHub issues. Review generated by the [`ietf-reviewtool`][IRT]. [ICMF]: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments/blob/main/format.md__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e6kYFONU$ [ICT]: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e7EYScuX$ [IRT]: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e-z1ASAx$ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
Re: [Pce] Lars Eggert's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)
I don't see the word "native" in the charter text? John > On Dec 14, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Lars Eggert via Datatracker > wrote: > > > > Lars Eggert has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-pce-07-04: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pce/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e2k3e48x$ > > > > -- > COMMENT: > -- > > # GEN AD review of charter-ietf-pce-07-04 > > CC @larseggert > > ## Comments > > ### Inclusive language > > Found terminology that should be reviewed for inclusivity; see > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/part2/*inclusive_language__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e8cFfj-W$ > for background and more > guidance: > > * Term `native`; alternatives might be `built-in`, `fundamental`, `ingrained`, > `intrinsic`, `original` > > ## Notes > > This review is in the ["IETF Comments" Markdown format][ICMF], You can use the > [`ietf-comments` tool][ICT] to automatically convert this review into > individual GitHub issues. Review generated by the [`ietf-reviewtool`][IRT]. > > [ICMF]: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments/blob/main/format.md__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e6kYFONU$ > [ICT]: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e7EYScuX$ > [IRT]: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CS86MpyLAch3FBrrIHUnybIAvaSiSxNIJnzru9PIKMOslJrRBg6FT0ZuyRO_PbZq2Fn3e-z1ASAx$ > > > ___ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
[Pce] Lars Eggert's No Objection on charter-ietf-pce-07-04: (with COMMENT)
Lars Eggert has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-pce-07-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-pce/ -- COMMENT: -- # GEN AD review of charter-ietf-pce-07-04 CC @larseggert ## Comments ### Inclusive language Found terminology that should be reviewed for inclusivity; see https://www.rfc-editor.org/part2/#inclusive_language for background and more guidance: * Term `native`; alternatives might be `built-in`, `fundamental`, `ingrained`, `intrinsic`, `original` ## Notes This review is in the ["IETF Comments" Markdown format][ICMF], You can use the [`ietf-comments` tool][ICT] to automatically convert this review into individual GitHub issues. Review generated by the [`ietf-reviewtool`][IRT]. [ICMF]: https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments/blob/main/format.md [ICT]: https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments [IRT]: https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool ___ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce
