Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
> > DesireData has much more substantial and interesting changes than the > colors and backgrounds. it is also, unfortunately, not at a fully usable > state yet. Since there were 50,000+ downloads of the previous version of > Pd-extended ( 0.38.4), I think it's worthwhile to spend a couple days to > make Pd-extended work better while we are waiting for DesireData. > > > .hc > Sorry, I hope my tone was not discouraging; I most certainly support this. It would be cool if you could document your changes, since I'd be interested in helping out. http://puredata.info/dev/GuiIdeas/ (I added some of the things from this thread just now) By the way, Monaco on Leopard is rendering anti-aliased at 10pt again, so Pd-e looks great there out of the box. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
On Sun, Nov 04, 2007 at 01:32:08AM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: > what would you actually prefer? grey borders and white filled objects? > or just status quo? > (i want to add: i do not dislike pd's actual appearance at all, but i am > interested to see, if it could be improved ) Almost all visual improvements are going to be subjective. That is to say, for every suggestion someone makes along the lines of visual changes to Pd, there will be many people for the change and many people against. For that reason, please put in the time to make all changes configurable, so that those who like the current look of Pd can easily put in command line flags or .pdrc settings to make it looks the way it does now. Ideally this would be something like "-originalgui". As for the default look, that could be decided by majority vote I guess. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Crash in Leopard
Well, I can't actually type anything in the new Help "Search" box (the cursor blinks but no text appears), but the menu entries below all work as they always have. Cheers Luke On 11/3/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And the help menu stuff works fine? > > > .hc > > On Nov 3, 2007, at 2:18 AM, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: > > Well, good news - I only had the crash when running an autobuild (pde > 0.40.3) from September. I'm using October 26th's now and the crash no > longer occurs. > > Luke > > On 11/2/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > If you feel like testing what in particular is causing the bug, you > > could try commenting out things in the pd.tk: > > > > > > Pd.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd.tk > > > > > > It's just a text file. Check around line 614, $mbar.help is the help > > menu for any patch. The help menu for the Pd window is called .mbar.help, > > that comes earlier in the file. > > > > > > I don't have access to a 10.5 machine, so I won't be able to try > > anything. > > > > > > .hc > > > > On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: > > > > Hallo, I can confirm this...Must have something to do with Leopard's > > wacky new searchable menus feature, which is built in to the Help menu. > > > > On 11/1/07, Luiz Naveda <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > Hallo list! > > > > > > > > > I've just installed latest PD-extended in Macbook OSX 10.5 Leopard. > > > When I try to click on the help menu, it crashes. I 've experimented > > > the same problem a couple of years ago in other macs. Anybody in the > > > same situation? > > > > > > Best > > > > > > Luiz > > > > > > -- > > > Luiz Naveda > > > _ > > > Mobile: + 32 0487 245594 > > > IPEM - Dep. of Musicology > > > Blandijnberg 2 > > > Ghent University, > > > Ghent, B-9000 > > > Belgium > > > > > >^v^ > > >^v^ > > > ^v^ > > > > > > ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~~^~~^~^~^~~~^^~^ > > > ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~~^~~^~^~^~~~^~~~ > > > > > > ___ > > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of > > exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, > > which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to > > himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession > > of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- > > Thomas Jefferson > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste > > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Crash in Leopard
And the help menu stuff works fine? .hc On Nov 3, 2007, at 2:18 AM, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: Well, good news - I only had the crash when running an autobuild (pde 0.40.3) from September. I'm using October 26th's now and the crash no longer occurs. Luke On 11/2/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If you feel like testing what in particular is causing the bug, you could try commenting out things in the pd.tk: Pd.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd.tk It's just a text file. Check around line 614, $mbar.help is the help menu for any patch. The help menu for the Pd window is called .mbar.help, that comes earlier in the file. I don't have access to a 10.5 machine, so I won't be able to try anything. .hc On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: Hallo, I can confirm this... Must have something to do with Leopard's wacky new searchable menus feature, which is built in to the Help menu. On 11/1/07, Luiz Naveda <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Hallo list! I've just installed latest PD-extended in Macbook OSX 10.5 Leopard. When I try to click on the help menu, it crashes. I 've experimented the same problem a couple of years ago in other macs. Anybody in the same situation? Best Luiz -- Luiz Naveda _ Mobile: + 32 0487 245594 IPEM - Dep. of Musicology Blandijnberg 2 Ghent University, Ghent, B-9000 Belgium ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~~^~~^~^~^~~~^^~^ ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~~^~~^~~^~^~^~~~^~~~ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- -- If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Autobuild 20071024 debian testing
I think all the builds get this message, I don't really know what they come from, I think they are from Gem: > class_addmethod: 0xb7be5220 > consistency check failed: class_addmethod: textoutline_string: bad > argument types .hc On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Olivier Heinry wrote: > Hi hans, > > here is my report after trying to install the latest auytobuild for > debian i386 unstable: > > the liglsl0 package was not installed, which was quite surprising > since > I compiled PD 0.40.2 a few weeks back and since that had the required > glsl devlibs installed. After installing it, the installation proved > partially successful. > > Bye! > > O. > > === > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/telechargements$ sudo dpkg -i > Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071024-debian-testing-i386.deb > (Lecture de la base de données... 145739 fichiers et répertoires déjà > installés.) > Préparation du remplacement de pd-extended 0.40.3cvs20071020-1 (en > utilisant Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071024-debian-testing-i386.deb) ... > Dépaquetage de la mise à jour de pd-extended ... > dpkg : des problèmes de dépendances empêchent la configuration de > pd-extended : > pd-extended dépend de libgsl0 ; cependant : > Le paquet libgsl0 n'est pas installé. > dpkg : erreur de traitement de pd-extended (--install) : > problèmes de dépendances - laissé non configuré > Des erreurs ont été rencontrées pendant l'exécution : > pd-extended > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/telechargements$ sudo apt-get install libgsl0 > Lecture des listes de paquets... Fait > Construction de l'arbre des dépendances > Lecture des informations d'état... Fait > Les paquets suivants ont été installés automatiquement et ne sont plus > nécessaires : > libaubio2 > Veuillez utiliser « apt-get autoremove » pour les supprimer. > Paquets suggérés : > gsl-ref-psdoc gsl-doc-pdf gsl-ref-html > Les NOUVEAUX paquets suivants seront installés : > libgsl0 > 0 mis à jour, 1 nouvellement installés, 0 à enlever et 530 non mis à > jour. > 1 partiellement installés ou enlevés. > Il est nécessaire de prendre 770ko dans les archives. > Après dépaquetage, 2114ko d'espace disque supplémentaires seront > utilisés. > Réception de : 1 http://ftp.fr.debian.org stable/main libgsl0 1.8-2 > [770kB] > 770ko réceptionnés en 0s (828ko/s) > Lecture des champs des paquets... Fait > Lecture de l'état des paquets... Fait > Récupération des rapports de bogue... Fait > Analyse des informations Trouvé/Corrigé... Fait > (Lecture de la base de données... 145741 fichiers et répertoires déjà > installés.) > Dépaquetage de libgsl0 (à partir de .../libgsl0_1.8-2_i386.deb) ... > Remplacés par des fichiers du paquet libgsl0ldbl déjà installé... > Remplacés par des fichiers du paquet libgsl0-dev déjà installé... > Paramétrage de libgsl0 (1.8-2) ... > Paramétrage de pd-extended (0.40.3cvs20071024-1) ... > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/telechargements$ sudo dpkg -i > Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071024-debian-testing-i386.deb > (Lecture de la base de données... 145753 fichiers et répertoires déjà > installés.) > Préparation du remplacement de pd-extended 0.40.3cvs20071024-1 (en > utilisant Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071024-debian-testing-i386.deb) ... > Dépaquetage de la mise à jour de pd-extended ... > Paramétrage de pd-extended (0.40.3cvs20071024-1) ... > > = > > PD startup console show the following: > > reading startup file: /home/olivier/.pdrc > class_addmethod: 0xb7be5220 > consistency check failed: class_addmethod: textoutline_string: bad > argument types > > class_addmethod: 0xb7be5220 > consistency check failed: class_addmethod: textextruded_string: bad > argument types > > class_addmethod: 0xb7be5220 > consistency check failed: class_addmethod: text3d_string: bad argument > types > > class_addmethod: 0xb7be5220 > consistency check failed: class_addmethod: text2d_string: bad argument > types > > class_addmethod: 0xb7ac7e40 > consistency check failed: class_addmethod: > GEMglProgramStringARB_string: > bad argument types > > GEM: using MMX optimization > GEM: Graphics Environment for Multimedia > GEM: ver: 0.91-cvs > GEM: compiled: Oct 24 2007 > GEM: maintained by IOhannes m zmoelnig > GEM: Authors :Mark Danks (original version) > GEM: Chris Clepper > GEM: James Tittle > GEM: IOhannes m zmoelnig > GEM: with help by Guenter Geiger, Daniel Heckenberg, Cyrille Henry, et > al. > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list "Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you." - Richard M. Stallman ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.
Re: [PD] little things
no, I think every i is automatically reformatted into f when passed to next object. maybe I am wrong... marius. ilya .d wrote: > isn't it right, that we should use [i] instead of [f] every time making > a counter which won't ever think of something in between 0 and 1 or 2 > and 3 ..!! > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] russian pdpedia template ready
If this is ready, please post a final version all in one piece. I can't read it, so that way there is less likely to be errors. .hc On Oct 31, 2007, at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 10:08:45PM +0100, danja vasiliev wrote: >> Hello Ilya, good job ;) >> i commented on some, i think the tongue can be a little easier, >> somewhat >> simpler... > yeah , we must keep it that way. > >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> i just made the basic translation of the template. >>> could be nice if Danya could consider the alternative options >>> (i put in the comments) >>> >>> i also couldn't get the css stuff quite right -;( >> >> but http://wiki.puredata.info/ru/MediaWiki:Common.css seems to be >> right, >> or it is not? > it's strange to me .. do you have more clue in web related stuff ? > >> > > i have changed most of the stuff according to the comments. > > > # wikipedia terms (these should come straight from Wikipedia) > my $stub = "Заготовка"; > my $template = "Шаблон"; > my $category = "Категория"; ## или раздел ? > my $infobox = "Инфорамка"; > > # термины pdpedia > my $objectclass = "Объект-класс"; > > # заголовки > my $inlets = "Впуска";## по словарю а. мюллера > # "Вход" ? > my $outlets = "Выпуска"; > # "Выход" ? > # i was thinking that's more appropriate.. впуск/выпуск > это типа из сантехники или какого-то > другого > # моделирования с трубами .. , звучит > смешнее ;)+ > # а так же , главное что - inlet/outlet - дело > промежуточное, вход/выход - это вещи > оканчательные > # незря Миллер назвал их так , а не in/out ! > my $arguments = "Параметры"; > # "Опции" (the last (options) may be no correct as some object > require arguments, is it so?) > # i think better stick to the one which is more russian then, cause we > # got too much of all cyrillic-writen-english bits all over the place > my $messages = "Сообщения"; > > # infobox > my $name = "Название"; > my $description = "Описание"; > my $abbreviation = "Сокращение"; > my $library = "Библиотека"; > my $author = "Автор"; > my $developer = "Разработчик"; > my $releaseVersion = "Версия релиза"; > my $releaseDate = "Дата выпуска"; > my $dependencies = "Зависимости"; > my $license = "Лицензия"; > my $website = "Домашняя страница"; > my $programmingLanguage = "Язык программирования"; > my $platform = "Платформа"; > my $operatingSystem = "Операционная Система"; > my $language = "Язык"; > my $dataType = "Тип данных"; > my $distributions = "Дистрибутивы"; ## > Дистрибуции это как-то туповато > звучит :) > my $status = "Статус"; > > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _|_ danja vasiliev >> ---(*)---http://k0a1a.net/recent >>" ' " +31-64-2654486 >> -- >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >> listinfo/pd-list > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pdpedia Español?
Any word on a final template? .hc On Oct 26, 2007, at 8:16 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Fri, 26 Oct 2007, Jaime Oliver wrote: > >> Well, 'clase del objeto' doesn't sound all that well, but i don't >> think any translation will sound right, > > My mexican roommate Iveth says it's "clase de objeto", no L. > > The latter parallels French "classe d'objet(s)" and not "classe de > l'objet", which sounds more like the class of a particular object > that would have to have been specified before hand, else it makes > people think "which object they're talking about?" > > _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC > Canada___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
> And finally, it pains me that much of this work we're discussing has > already been done by Mathieu and Chun : (! I have a dream, where DD and PD > and PD-E are one. > Oh yes, we are dreaming the same dream - but DesireData isn't there in terms of usability yet. I couldn't use it for anything dsp-related actually. The only thing I was able to get out of it was just to see what Chun and Mathieu have been up to. From what I understand (admittedly, not much) they have undertaken something much more extensive than color changes, and their work is likely not easily integrated with pd's vanilla ui. I had a conversation with Miller at the pd-conv where he said he was interested in implementing some of dd's features at a point in the future. Kevin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Installing pd-extended in ubuntu on a computer with no internet connection
That's what I would do as well. .hc On Nov 3, 2007, at 10:32 PM, Kevin McCoy wrote: This is cheating but Debian has a web repository at http:// packages.debian.org where you can download packages for different architectures and search, etc. Find out what packages Pd-extended depends on, download the ppc .deb files from the debian server, pop them on a flash drive and drop them on your net-less ppc at home and then install them first with sudo dpkg -i whatever.deb Then install the pd-extended deb package using the same command. That's what I would do - but it's not very elegant and maybe someone has a better idea. Kevin On 11/3/07, David NG McCallum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi! Maybe this is more of an ubuntu package question than a Pd question, but... I've got an old iMac running xubuntu at home, except that home has no internet connection. When I tried installing the pd-extended package it went and tried to download the depends, which of course it couldn't, because it has no internet connection. Is there a complete meta-package of Pd-extended and all the depends that I could just plop onto this machine? Is it possible to make one (I don't have access to another PPC-ubuntu machine with a net connection to do this, it would have to be either an intel-ubuntu or OS X machine doing the work). Thanks! D -- __ _ _ _ __ _ http://sintheta.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] little things
Doesn't really matter as along as you are doing [+ 1]. [float] is actually the native format for Pd, [int]/[i] involved conversion. .hc On Nov 3, 2007, at 10:18 PM, ilya .d wrote: > isn't it right, that we should use [i] instead of [f] every time > making > a counter which won't ever think of something in between 0 and 1 or 2 > and 3 ..!! > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
On Nov 3, 2007, at 8:40 PM, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: it might also be useful to have a very subtle background grid drawn on the canvas at certain intervals to help patch organization. Quartz Composer has this, as does Max 5 (not saying you HAVE to have it, but it might be a nice addition. I look at this as the equivalent of properly indented code; a feature I'd really appreciate is the equivalent of auto-indenting since I obsessively line up my Pd patches. Secondly, maybe consider making message boxes, object boxes and subpatch boxes each a different color? I'd consider this the equivalent of syntax highlighting, and though I'm sure choice of default colors will be contentious, I think it would be a boon for busy patches (especially the subpatch/objectbox differentiation; I am always searching for subpatches). And finally, it pains me that much of this work we're discussing has already been done by Mathieu and Chun : (! I have a dream, where DD and PD and PD-E are one. DesireData has much more substantial and interesting changes than the colors and backgrounds. it is also, unfortunately, not at a fully usable state yet. Since there were 50,000+ downloads of the previous version of Pd-extended (0.38.4), I think it's worthwhile to spend a couple days to make Pd-extended work better while we are waiting for DesireData. .hc "Free software means you control what your computer does. Non-free software means someone else controls that, and to some extent controls you." - Richard M. Stallman ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Installing pd-extended in ubuntu on a computer with no internet connection
This is cheating but Debian has a web repository at http://packages.debian.org where you can download packages for different architectures and search, etc. Find out what packages Pd-extended depends on, download the ppc .deb files from the debian server, pop them on a flash drive and drop them on your net-less ppc at home and then install them first with sudo dpkg -i whatever.deb Then install the pd-extended deb package using the same command. That's what I would do - but it's not very elegant and maybe someone has a better idea. Kevin On 11/3/07, David NG McCallum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi! > > Maybe this is more of an ubuntu package question than a Pd question, > but... > > I've got an old iMac running xubuntu at home, except that home has no > internet connection. When I tried installing the pd-extended package > it went and tried to download the depends, which of course it > couldn't, because it has no internet connection. > > Is there a complete meta-package of Pd-extended and all the depends > that I could just plop onto this machine? Is it possible to make one > (I don't have access to another PPC-ubuntu machine with a net > connection to do this, it would have to be either an intel-ubuntu or > OS X machine doing the work). > > Thanks! > D > > -- > __ _ _ _ __ _ > http://sintheta.org > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] little things
isn't it right, that we should use [i] instead of [f] every time making a counter which won't ever think of something in between 0 and 1 or 2 and 3 ..!! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
> > it might also be useful to have a very subtle background grid drawn on > the canvas at certain intervals to help patch organization. Quartz > Composer has this, as does Max 5 (not saying you HAVE to have it, but > it might be a nice addition. > I look at this as the equivalent of properly indented code; a feature I'd really appreciate is the equivalent of auto-indenting since I obsessively line up my Pd patches. Secondly, maybe consider making message boxes, object boxes and subpatch boxes each a different color? I'd consider this the equivalent of syntax highlighting, and though I'm sure choice of default colors will be contentious, I think it would be a boon for busy patches (especially the subpatch/objectbox differentiation; I am always searching for subpatches). And finally, it pains me that much of this work we're discussing has already been done by Mathieu and Chun : (! I have a dream, where DD and PD and PD-E are one. Cheers Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [-SPAM-] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 20:08 -0400, marius schebella wrote: > Hi Hans, > I saw that you filled the boxes now with grey. > actually I do not agree with roman, that this looks better, I think the > contrast is smaller and therefore text is less readable for me. though it probably slightly minimizes the contrast a bit, i don't think, that this is basically true with the _very_ light grey hans has chosen. turn the brightness level of your screen down by one level and you have the very same contrast in old pd style as well. does it really make a difference in readibility? > I would prefer white object background. the idea came up, because hans proposed to use grey for the borders and with grey borders, the objects seemed to kind of disappear. it was a way to separate the objects better from the canvas background. what would you actually prefer? grey borders and white filled objects? or just status quo? (i want to add: i do not dislike pd's actual appearance at all, but i am interested to see, if it could be improved ) roman > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Jamie Bullock wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:24 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >>> I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd > >>> that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is > >>> crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of > >>> flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a > >>> big difference. > >>> > >> I really like some of these ideas, and I do agree that a few subtle > >> visual nuances would bring Pd's UI into the 21st century! I always > >> thought that om/ingen (http://wiki.drobilla.net/Ingen) had a a really > >> nice UI - just the right combination of minimalist simplicity and > >> graphical niceness (anti-aliased splines!). Maybe we can steal some > >> ideas from that. > >> > >> Can I put a vote in for _not_ putting arrows on the end of patch > >> chords. > >> This is one of the features of Desire Data that I really don't like > >> since it adds no additional information to the patch (it isn't > >> possible > >> to connect from inlets to outlets), and it adds visual noise. > >> > >> Jamie > >> > >> -- > >> www.postlude.co.uk > > > > I'm going to try to get a version of this into the Pd-extended auto- > > build for tonight: > > > > http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/solidboxes+color.png > > > > I'll made the colors settable in the pd.tk so people can make it look > > the "old way" without too much trouble. Perhaps it could be a > > command line flag, something like: -orthodox ;) > > > > .hc > > > > > > > > > > The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther > > King, Jr. > > > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
i think all in pd gui canvas part is just right. there is also DesireData, why wouldn't you use it to have coloured stuff? different stuff is already in the externals (which i personally dont use (almost, apart from a few objects)). you can even have a three-dimensional gui made in GEM, if you really want to. all gui colouring related stuff obviously seems to be in pd.tk script .. for example we could have a variabel instead of the string "white" write "$canvas_background" : canvas $name.c -width $width -height $height -background white i'm just still wondering if we eventually increase the number of variables by say a 100 (which can easily happened, might even go to 200 or something like that), that will take more memory, isn't it ? so i think even if modern computers have a great figure of RAM, still this should be taken care of. look, actually , having pd just black and white one can use a monochrome video card, and tweak the modern one to do the DSP. there ongoing developments , that most of you are aware of, i reckon. (that can happened only in theory, the two cards like that and a mother board which can accommodate both and communicate with them all together is very _hard_to_find_) but still, something a bit more normal can be done. after all, who is not happy with tk, might like Tcl-GTK or i suppose, a brand new shiny pdgui can be rewritten in anything else if someone really wants to. -- cheers, ilya .d ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [-SPAM-] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
Hi Hans, I saw that you filled the boxes now with grey. actually I do not agree with roman, that this looks better, I think the contrast is smaller and therefore text is less readable for me. I would prefer white object background. marius. Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > On Nov 3, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Jamie Bullock wrote: > >> On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:24 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >>> I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd >>> that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is >>> crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of >>> flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a >>> big difference. >>> >> I really like some of these ideas, and I do agree that a few subtle >> visual nuances would bring Pd's UI into the 21st century! I always >> thought that om/ingen (http://wiki.drobilla.net/Ingen) had a a really >> nice UI - just the right combination of minimalist simplicity and >> graphical niceness (anti-aliased splines!). Maybe we can steal some >> ideas from that. >> >> Can I put a vote in for _not_ putting arrows on the end of patch >> chords. >> This is one of the features of Desire Data that I really don't like >> since it adds no additional information to the patch (it isn't >> possible >> to connect from inlets to outlets), and it adds visual noise. >> >> Jamie >> >> -- >> www.postlude.co.uk > > I'm going to try to get a version of this into the Pd-extended auto- > build for tonight: > > http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/solidboxes+color.png > > I'll made the colors settable in the pd.tk so people can make it look > the "old way" without too much trouble. Perhaps it could be a > command line flag, something like: -orthodox ;) > > .hc > > > > > The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther > King, Jr. > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [-SPAM-] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
On Nov 3, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Jamie Bullock wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:24 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd >> that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is >> crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of >> flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a >> big difference. >> > I really like some of these ideas, and I do agree that a few subtle > visual nuances would bring Pd's UI into the 21st century! I always > thought that om/ingen (http://wiki.drobilla.net/Ingen) had a a really > nice UI - just the right combination of minimalist simplicity and > graphical niceness (anti-aliased splines!). Maybe we can steal some > ideas from that. > > Can I put a vote in for _not_ putting arrows on the end of patch > chords. > This is one of the features of Desire Data that I really don't like > since it adds no additional information to the patch (it isn't > possible > to connect from inlets to outlets), and it adds visual noise. > > Jamie > > -- > www.postlude.co.uk I'm going to try to get a version of this into the Pd-extended auto- build for tonight: http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/solidboxes+color.png I'll made the colors settable in the pd.tk so people can make it look the "old way" without too much trouble. Perhaps it could be a command line flag, something like: -orthodox ;) .hc The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [-SPAM-] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:24 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd > that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is > crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of > flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a > big difference. > I really like some of these ideas, and I do agree that a few subtle visual nuances would bring Pd's UI into the 21st century! I always thought that om/ingen (http://wiki.drobilla.net/Ingen) had a a really nice UI - just the right combination of minimalist simplicity and graphical niceness (anti-aliased splines!). Maybe we can steal some ideas from that. Can I put a vote in for _not_ putting arrows on the end of patch chords. This is one of the features of Desire Data that I really don't like since it adds no additional information to the patch (it isn't possible to connect from inlets to outlets), and it adds visual noise. Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] TkWidget library
for what its worth, Max has a preference that sets the frequency of all screen refreshes of patcher objects. This can be useful to reduce GUI overhead on heavy patches. On Nov 3, 2007, at 5:05 PM, João Miguel Pais wrote: >> Even tho the screen updates at least evern 16ms, most GUI object do >> not benefit from that at all. For example, number boxes would be >> totally fine updating every 100ms or more, unless you like the look >> of blurry numbers flying by. Sliders and buttons probably would be >> fine at 50ms also >> >> It would be nice to have this as part of the GUI API, so that it is >> easy to use. > > if things are being improved, a principle that I find important is the > possibility to unlock these settings to general use. that is, > instead of > just improving them, for example creating a command "displayfr" or > whatever that each object could understand. then instead of locking > the > parameters in a different setting, more possibilities are possible. > (or > would something like that imply too much work?) > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] TkWidget library
> Even tho the screen updates at least evern 16ms, most GUI object do > not benefit from that at all. For example, number boxes would be > totally fine updating every 100ms or more, unless you like the look > of blurry numbers flying by. Sliders and buttons probably would be > fine at 50ms also > > It would be nice to have this as part of the GUI API, so that it is > easy to use. if things are being improved, a principle that I find important is the possibility to unlock these settings to general use. that is, instead of just improving them, for example creating a command "displayfr" or whatever that each object could understand. then instead of locking the parameters in a different setting, more possibilities are possible. (or would something like that imply too much work?) ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
> it might also be useful to have a very subtle background grid drawn on > the canvas at certain intervals to help patch organization. Quartz > Composer has this, as does Max 5 (not saying you HAVE to have it, but > it might be a nice addition. something important might be the possibility of using other colors except white for the background. Not because of looks but because of eye health. It's taken for granted that the standard background must be white, which is maybe quite damaging to the eyes. I know of no studies about this, but I set as many of my programs as I can to have a greyish background, that goes softer on my eyes. (I usually also do my patches with graphics in grayscale) I would second to even make the standard color a "safe" color. Although looks might not be considered so relevant, it is an important step in pd to improve also these subjects. I also second Vade's idea of a properties saved in the patch file (and alterable on the fly through the pd engine, please). That opens up lots of possibilities for more adical patching. By the way, are all these new elements going to be improved only in pd-ext, or also in vanilla? I guess it would make sense to have both at the same level. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
I agree, 1px looks better, and I very much like the versions with the colored patch coords. I think the gray sans border ones are too diffuse, and do not catch your eye fast enough, so you have to work MUCH harder to make out the patch structure. If it is possible to add user preference for these options, at least things like - control rate patch coord color audio rate patch coord color optional arrows (I notice you have them in there subtly) object box border color message box border color object box interior color message box interior color font color background canvas color. it might also be useful to have a very subtle background grid drawn on the canvas at certain intervals to help patch organization. Quartz Composer has this, as does Max 5 (not saying you HAVE to have it, but it might be a nice addition. I think the overall goal should be to increase visual differentiation between graphic representation of different objects on screen, like objects, abstractions, externals, patchcoord types, inles and outlets. This is *really* important, as many people learn through their eyes, and being able to visually identify components of a patch will ease in learning, ease in patch flow understanding, and lower common error rates and disambiguate LOTs of things. Great work. Im all for it. These are the kind of quality of life issues so few open source projects attempt to tackle, and what keep many people from actively using some software. Awesome. On Nov 3, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: > hi all > > i like the idea of optimizing pd's appearance, although i think it's > only details, that should be improved. personally, i'd prefer boxes > like > that: > > http://romanhaefeli.net/ramsch/nu_peedee_stuyl.png > > because: > 1) 1px border looks better. 2px or more looks like drawn with a clumsy > pencil > 2) a border is still needed, otherwise the boxes seem to disappear and > the strong presence of connections with very light boxes looks strange > and makes it hard to follow a patch. > 3) borders are grey not black in order to emphasize the text. > 4) light grey filled boxes in order to better distinguish patch from > canvas > > why i like in the examples from: > http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/ > 1) the inlets and outlets. > 2) anti-aliased connections > > roman > > > > > > On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:24 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd >> that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is >> crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of >> flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a >> big difference. >> >> For example, I think the inlet you're about to drop a connection onto >> should highlight itself, that would make life a lot easier. You can >> just drag to the middle of the box to connect to and see which inlet >> is selected instead of having to aim for the tiny inlet. >> >> Another thing is having the inlets and outlets look slightly >> different based on whether they are audio, message, or both. >> >> Another thing would be to automatically shape a cord when it is used >> to feedback to the top of a patch. This is the only time when I >> think that segmented patch cords are useful. >> >> Some of these ideas already exist, maybe in DesireData, maybe in Max/ >> MSP, maybe jMax, wherever. I'd like to try to come up with a >> coherent idea of the whole look. Another thing is choosing the line >> colors, weights, shapes, etc. >> >> I've been thinking a bit of how to make a patch more readable. >> Color, shape, and weight should be used to highlight what is >> important in the patch. I think that the shapes of the object box >> vs. the message vs. the atom box are a nice feature. I think that >> having them drawn in sharp, black lines draws too much attention to >> the boxes themselves, rather than the text, which is more important. >> >> Here are a couple of quick sketches I did, while talking with Roman, >> vade, and others: >> >> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/ >> >> I'd like to see other sketches along these ideas. >> >> .hc >> >> >> >> >> Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic >> >> >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > ___ > Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http:// > messenger.yahoo.de > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata
[PD] Installing pd-extended in ubuntu on a computer with no internet connection
Hi! Maybe this is more of an ubuntu package question than a Pd question, but... I've got an old iMac running xubuntu at home, except that home has no internet connection. When I tried installing the pd-extended package it went and tried to download the depends, which of course it couldn't, because it has no internet connection. Is there a complete meta-package of Pd-extended and all the depends that I could just plop onto this machine? Is it possible to make one (I don't have access to another PPC-ubuntu machine with a net connection to do this, it would have to be either an intel-ubuntu or OS X machine doing the work). Thanks! D -- __ _ _ _ __ _ http://sintheta.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?
Hello. I am brainstorming about rewriting a Pd patch I wrote as a standalone program, for several reasons. I wrote it very haphazardly the first time, learning to program simultaneously. I've since gained a much greater understanding of C, and a smattering of some other languages. Also, the other musicians I try to share my program with seem unable to figure out how to configure Pd (I still find it difficult, honestly). I'd also like to use my program to apply for grants, so I think it would be well to be standalone. I understand that Pd uses Tcl/Tk, but I don't know much about these tools. What kind of libraries or toolkits enable the functions of things like [drawpolygon] and [drawnumber]? I didn't see anything resembling that in the info I read on Tcl/Tk, but I did see the possibility of using image files, which I think would be just as good. I've also picked up some knowledge of OpenGL from Gem; might that be an option for a sequencer GUI? Advice appreciated. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] debugging techniques/tricks for a non-developer?
Hi, I use PD quite a lot, and it sometimes happens to me that it crashes. Sometimes I have been able to isolate and identify the cause of the crash, in which case either it was a known bug or I reported it, or the crash was triggered by some errors in my patches that I could fix. However, there are situations in which I can't even isolate the problem and that's scary because if you don't know what conditions trigger the bug/issue, you cannot feel sure that it won't happen on-stage just because it hasn't happened for a long time lately. If PD crashes, I need to know: whether there is or not an error in my patch, and if there isn't, how to avoid the crash condition. So my question is Is there some way one can, for instance, figure out some information about "where" the crash happened, if not "why"? For example, once I realized that some patch of mine made PD crash when I opened it, but it didn't if I opened it with -noloadbang So the crash must be provoked by some loadbang, be it because of a PD bug or of an error in my patch. However my patch was quite "big" and had a lot of abstractions with a lot of loadbangs so it was impossible to figure out which one(s) triggered the patch... and I never did. It just stopped happening. In such a situation, would there be any means to figure out at least what abstraction contained the "guilty" loadbang? (then it may help or not, because there may be 100 instances of that abstraction all around, but it would be a starting point) I guess that, if I had such a thing as Visual C++ and if I were a skilled developer and if I were familiar with PD sourcecode, I coud debug and figure out things... but none of these conditions holds true. I'm interested in any kind of (feasible) trick that can help one get any kind of useful information as to what provokes a crash, at least in the case one is able to reproduce (if not isolate) it. In WINDOWS if possible. (I would like to become familiar with Linux, but hey, let's make one step at a time) By the way, is it very difficult for a newbie to get started with recompiling PD's source code? (not only with the abovementioned aim but more in general: in a future I would like to learn a bit about its source code and even try playing with it) and in this case, running it in some sort of debug environment? What would I need? I do have programming skills, just not in C++ (and I do have a very basic knowledge of C++). I usually work only with high-level and interpreted languages well... PD is one of them! Thanks in advance m. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
hi all i like the idea of optimizing pd's appearance, although i think it's only details, that should be improved. personally, i'd prefer boxes like that: http://romanhaefeli.net/ramsch/nu_peedee_stuyl.png because: 1) 1px border looks better. 2px or more looks like drawn with a clumsy pencil 2) a border is still needed, otherwise the boxes seem to disappear and the strong presence of connections with very light boxes looks strange and makes it hard to follow a patch. 3) borders are grey not black in order to emphasize the text. 4) light grey filled boxes in order to better distinguish patch from canvas why i like in the examples from: http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/ 1) the inlets and outlets. 2) anti-aliased connections roman On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:24 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd > that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is > crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of > flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a > big difference. > > For example, I think the inlet you're about to drop a connection onto > should highlight itself, that would make life a lot easier. You can > just drag to the middle of the box to connect to and see which inlet > is selected instead of having to aim for the tiny inlet. > > Another thing is having the inlets and outlets look slightly > different based on whether they are audio, message, or both. > > Another thing would be to automatically shape a cord when it is used > to feedback to the top of a patch. This is the only time when I > think that segmented patch cords are useful. > > Some of these ideas already exist, maybe in DesireData, maybe in Max/ > MSP, maybe jMax, wherever. I'd like to try to come up with a > coherent idea of the whole look. Another thing is choosing the line > colors, weights, shapes, etc. > > I've been thinking a bit of how to make a patch more readable. > Color, shape, and weight should be used to highlight what is > important in the patch. I think that the shapes of the object box > vs. the message vs. the atom box are a nice feature. I think that > having them drawn in sharp, black lines draws too much attention to > the boxes themselves, rather than the text, which is more important. > > Here are a couple of quick sketches I did, while talking with Roman, > vade, and others: > > http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/ > > I'd like to see other sketches along these ideas. > > .hc > > > > > Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] new pd wiki - practical data - includes forum
On 11/3/07, Steffen Juul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 03/11/2007, at 8.02, hard off wrote: > > > i just set up a new wiki for pd, aimed at providing a simple and easy > > way for pd users to share their patches / tutorials, etc... > > There is also the http://puredata.info website people can use. For > tutorials for instance folks can add to http://puredata.info/docs/ > tutorials Sometimes less is more, like when I try to look up info on the latest version of a library and find numerous Google hits that link to different sites that were created and abandoned at different stages, all with different versions. I'm all for centralization; however, I've never liked the puredata.infolayout and setup. When you find a link to a file, you first have to visit the page where the file is listed, and for those of us in remote parts of the world without the best internet connections, it sucks to have to wait for one more page, when you could just as well start the download immediately. I'm all for a wiki (public editing means less chance of a site being neglected), but I thought there already was one?? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] changing the look of Pd to be more readable
I think there is a lot that could be done to the look and feel of Pd that would make it much more efficient and usable. I think it is crucial to avoid flashiness, one of Pd's strengths is its lack of flashiness (no segmented patch cords! ;) But small things can make a big difference. For example, I think the inlet you're about to drop a connection onto should highlight itself, that would make life a lot easier. You can just drag to the middle of the box to connect to and see which inlet is selected instead of having to aim for the tiny inlet. Another thing is having the inlets and outlets look slightly different based on whether they are audio, message, or both. Another thing would be to automatically shape a cord when it is used to feedback to the top of a patch. This is the only time when I think that segmented patch cords are useful. Some of these ideas already exist, maybe in DesireData, maybe in Max/ MSP, maybe jMax, wherever. I'd like to try to come up with a coherent idea of the whole look. Another thing is choosing the line colors, weights, shapes, etc. I've been thinking a bit of how to make a patch more readable. Color, shape, and weight should be used to highlight what is important in the patch. I think that the shapes of the object box vs. the message vs. the atom box are a nice feature. I think that having them drawn in sharp, black lines draws too much attention to the boxes themselves, rather than the text, which is more important. Here are a couple of quick sketches I did, while talking with Roman, vade, and others: http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/ I'd like to see other sketches along these ideas. .hc Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] new pd wiki - practical data - includes forum
On Sat, 2007-11-03 at 14:53 +0100, Steffen Juul wrote: > On 03/11/2007, at 8.02, hard off wrote: > > > i just set up a new wiki for pd, aimed at providing a simple and easy > > way for pd users to share their patches / tutorials, etc... > > There is also the http://puredata.info website people can use. For > tutorials for instance folks can add to http://puredata.info/docs/ > tutorials > Also, as (I think) IOhannes states on the puredata.info site, it is also possible to set up a forum inside the Plone site (puredata.info) e.g with zforum (http://plone.org/products/zforum). Maybe this would be a better place for it, to keep things centralised a bit... Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Files attached and the archive of this mailing list
On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 06:14:28PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: > you don't need to convert anything, since pd-files already are > textfiles, but with the extension '.pd'. > > roman > on windows there may be an EOL problem, so notepad or something won't display it propertly - all will go in one line .. i'm not sure if pd patch parser can read both ..? deppends.. did anyone experienced anything about it? i think it's only windows has different EOL symbol these days. macosx has the regular unix EOL isn't it? > > On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 17:41 +0100, Javier Garcia wrote: > > Hi, > > > > dont the files attached to mails appear in the archive of this > > mailing list ( http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/ ) ?? > > > > how can i convert a patch to text? > > > > br. > > GARFF > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > ___ > Der fr?he Vogel f?ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: > http://mail.yahoo.de > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minimize mac
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 06:58:12AM -0700, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: > Hallo, I've mentioned this before... if the issue is worth $15 to you you > can grab this : )http://www.atomicbird.com/mondomouse/ > (no affiliation) > > Cheers > Luke > probably mac users can afford such little things :_) .. especial because their beloved OS + GUI doesn't provide this to them! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minimize mac
Hallo, I've mentioned this before... if the issue is worth $15 to you you can grab this : )http://www.atomicbird.com/mondomouse/ (no affiliation) Cheers Luke On 11/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:21:34AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > > > > > > What do you mean, "resizing does not always help"? > > > > > > > Resizing the window doesn't always cause a scrollbar to appear. > > Tim > that looks like the old wll known bug. > it appears after you edit the patch - just ctrl+e and touch one object > basically - it refreshes the scrollbar stae and you can scroll. > seems to happend on all the platforms. > > > > > _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > > > | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] new pd wiki - practical data - includes forum
On 03/11/2007, at 8.02, hard off wrote: > i just set up a new wiki for pd, aimed at providing a simple and easy > way for pd users to share their patches / tutorials, etc... There is also the http://puredata.info website people can use. For tutorials for instance folks can add to http://puredata.info/docs/ tutorials Best, Steffen ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] new pd wiki - practical data - includes forum
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 04:02:11PM +0900, hard off wrote: > i just set up a new wiki for pd, aimed at providing a simple and easy > way for pd users to share their patches / tutorials, etc... > so, this should complement the pdpedia quite well. > > http://practical-data.wikidot.com/ > > anyone is welcome to become a member and add content. just create an > account with wikidot, and click on 'join this site' in the left menu. > > the password is: loadbang > > > there is also a forum there. the pd forum~ is currently down, and i'm > not sure if it will go back up..but i created another one on this site > anyway. having a forum and a wiki on the same site seems very useful > too. > > any suggestions or whatever are totally welcome. hope this becomes a > useful pd resource. hey! can you link it with the CVS may be ? so the patches will appear in CVSROOT/practical. could be great - not all people like to hang around the web! > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minimize mac
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:21:34AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > > > > What do you mean, "resizing does not always help"? > > > > Resizing the window doesn't always cause a scrollbar to appear. > Tim that looks like the old wll known bug. it appears after you edit the patch - just ctrl+e and touch one object basically - it refreshes the scrollbar stae and you can scroll. seems to happend on all the platforms. > > > _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > > | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada > > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minimize mac
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 11:58:20AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Sometimes this happens here on ubuntu too. Quite annoying.
>> Resizing does not always help.
>> What I do then is CTRL+a and SHIFT+arrow-keys to move the contents of the
>> patch.
>> = Slow if its a big patch.
>> Dividing your big patch into smaller subpatches is better I guess.
well, may be if you wanna publish a patch - once for personal use don't
need to fallow any guidelines i think :)
>
> Usually on Linux you can resize a window by dragging with Alt+Button3
> (right button of mouse) but some window managers set it to Alt+Button2
> instead (wheel button or thumb button) and some allow to reconfigure the
> "Alt" part to something else (e.g. Windows key or Menu key)
>
> What do you mean, "resizing does not always help"?
>
also on most of the window managers you can move center of the window ,
so some parts go out of sight, but in this way you can do whatever.
i don't understand why some WMs don't let you do this ??
what's going ..?? i remember that the aqua lets you have the bottom and
both say away of the sight ('desktop boundary' if you wish) .
can't you move the window like just have said?
--
ilya .d
> _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ...
> | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada
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