Re: [PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Chuckk Hubbard hat gesagt: // Chuckk Hubbard wrote:

> [float 0] or [f 0] is an instance of [float]; it has the property 0, which
> can change, and float, which can't; it has one method to replace its value
> (a float sent to its right inlet), one method to send a message of its value
> (a "bang" message to its left inlet), and one method to do both in that
> order (a float to the left inlet replaces and then sends a message).  Where
> it sends the messages it sends, and from where it receives the instructions
> it receives, are not for the object itself to worry about.
> 
> The [+ 1] object has one method to add 1 to its input and output the result
> (a float to the left inlet); a method to replace the argument 1 (float to
> the right inlet); and if I'm not mistaken, it also remembers its last
> left-side input, so if it has already received a float to the left inlet,
> then a "bang" to the left inlet repeats the operation the same as before.
> AFAIK there are no other methods of the [+ 1] object; anything it does is
> one of those three things.  Not including error checking (it won't accept a
> symbol as input or argument).

To illustrate that with Python: 

class Float(pyext._class):
"""[float] in Python"""
_inlets=2
_outlets=1

# constructor
def __init__(self,*args)
self.stored=args[0] or 0

def bang_1(self):
"Bang into first inlet: send float to outlet"
self._outlet(1,self.stored)

def float_1(self,f):
self.stored = f
self._outlet(1,f)

def float_2(self,f)
self.stored = f


class Add(pyext._class):
"""[+ ] in Python"""
_inlets=2
_outlets=1

# constructor
def __init__(self,*args)
self.stored = 0
self.add=args[0] or 0

def bang_1(self):
"Bang into first inlet: send float to outlet"
self._outlet(1,self.stored)

def float_1(self,f):
self.stored = f + self.add
self._outlet(1,self.stored)

def float_2(self,f)
self.add = f

# use it:
f0 = Float(0)
add1 = Add(1)
connect((f0, outlet0), (add1, inlet0))
connect((add1, outlet0), (f0, inlet1))
for i in range(10):
send_bang_to(f0, inlet0)

The classes are actually almost valid code.

sys.exit()
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] Growing patch-window size (Was:Re: changing the look of Pd to be more readable)

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Nov 8, 2007, at 10:59 AM, Steffen Juul wrote:

>
> On 07/11/2007, at 19.07, marius schebella wrote:
>
>> you can start searching in 2002.
>
> Now i don't know if i repeat anyone from the past. I apologize  
> beforehand.
>
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> If there isn't a bug report for this, please file one and I'll  
>>> take a
>>> look when I get a chance.
>
> Maybe we can keep it on list for a few bits more.
>
> I made a patch to test the behavior. This is the test:
>
> 1) Note that the patch is 500x300 initially. Either by opening in a  
> text editor or with 'head -1' or.
> 2) Open the attached patch. Click the [10( on one of the sides.
> 3) Note that the patch has grown to 504x304
>
> Now the weird bit.
>
> 4) with out closing the patch, click the [10( again.
> 5) Note that it has _not_ grown to 508x308.
> 6) Close the patch
> 7) Reopen the patch
> 8) Click the [bang(
> 9) Note that it has now grown to 508x308
>
> So it seams it grows 4px per run with a reload.
>
> More weirdness. Or observations.
>
> 10) Now try the above but clicking the [100( on either side.
> 11) Note that it still only increases by 4px.
>
> 12) Close and reopen the patch.
> 13) Just save it as you normally would.
> 14) Note that only one save increases the size 4px.
>
> 15) Note that using either the [until] method or the [delay] method  
> doesn't make a difference.
>
> 


This is a very helpful illustration of the bug.  I think that it's  
probably happening when opening the patch.  Could you add this info  
to the bug tracker, I believe there is already a bug report for this  
one, and I'll try to look at it tomororw.

.hc


 


"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we  
don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of  
Environmentalism", by Curtis White





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Re: [PD] connection?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Ok, I figured that one out, I just raise the cords when a new object  
is created.  Should be fixed in tomorrows (2007-11-09) build.

.hc

On Nov 8, 2007, at 6:42 PM, robbert van hulzen wrote:

> hi all, hc,
> i like the new look of pd-ext, but i just came across something  
> that could
> be a problem: the most recently created object now covers  
> everything created
> before (visually, i mean). while in canvases and gui objects this  
> is of
> course really useful, in objects i think it's dangerous as you may  
> think
> (read: as i thought) that the newly created object is actually  
> connected,
> because you don't see the wire going through the object.
> just my thoughts on a beautiful night in barcelona :)
>
> -- 
> pd-0.40.3-extended-20071106
> mac osx 10.4.8, 15" G4 PB 1.67 GHz, 1 GB ram
>
>
>
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News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is  
publicity.  - Bill Moyers



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[PD] Pd and gpgpu

[Julian Villegas]

Hi,

I'm interested in reimplementing some externals that I've made in Pd. The idea 
is to take advantage of the graphic card power to deal with parallel data and 
boost the performance of the external. Have you guys done that before?  I'm 
planning to use GLSL, the Open GL Shader Language, for compatibility. My 
problem is that I don't know how to do it, and I'm looking for some help or 
orientation of those among you who have some experience in this matter.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I'm posting this to pd-list and pd-dev-list, and I'm sorry for multiple 
instances of this email.


 
Julian Villegas

Me pregunto de un modo pensativo
Que significa ser Colombiano?
No se le respondi. Es un acto de fe
JLB.



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Re: [PD] connection?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

That sounds bad, but I don't recall seeing it.  Do you have a  
screenshot of this?  Or even better, the steps to take to make it  
happen?

.hc

On Nov 8, 2007, at 6:42 PM, robbert van hulzen wrote:

> hi all, hc,
> i like the new look of pd-ext, but i just came across something  
> that could
> be a problem: the most recently created object now covers  
> everything created
> before (visually, i mean). while in canvases and gui objects this  
> is of
> course really useful, in objects i think it's dangerous as you may  
> think
> (read: as i thought) that the newly created object is actually  
> connected,
> because you don't see the wire going through the object.
> just my thoughts on a beautiful night in barcelona :)
>
> -- 
> pd-0.40.3-extended-20071106
> mac osx 10.4.8, 15" G4 PB 1.67 GHz, 1 GB ram
>
>
>
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As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be  
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and  
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin



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[PD] robotcowboy patches for you

[Daniel Wilcox]

Hey guys!

I've been working on some patches and music while I was at STEIM in October
with the result being
a bunch of gui patches inspired by Chris McCormicks awesome s-abstractions
that use the equally awesome
Frank Barknecht's sssad state saving.  The sequencing objects + s-arranger
finally allow me to make full songs more like when I was using FL Studio.
Screw FL Studio now!

Some of the objects included are:
- rc-seq: a variable length xoxo sequence
- rc-drumseq: a variable length sequencer container a number of the above
- rc-track: a variable length midi note sequence
- rc-tracker: a variable length tracker containing a number of the above
- rc-chipwave~: a chiptunes emulator built around Phill Phelp's chipwave~
example 
- rc-wavetable~: a wavetable gui osc
- rc-arp: the arpeggiator from Tod Winkler's Composing Interactive Music
- blahblahblah ...

Webpage: software.robotcowboy.com/rc-patches

See my myspace <%20%20http://www.myspace.com/robotcowboy> (redundant?) for
two new songs, MyLungsWereAchingForYou and SpaceLight, built entirely in pd
using the rc-patch song structuring, generation from live midi, and realtime
mixing of the mic/distorted digitar (hey, thats pretty good for a 500Mhz
box!).

Anyway, I've started making gui objects to save time when I make the songs
(compose) and I just want to get into a
a groove.  Some of them are unfinished but check em out, I'll update them as
I go.

Hopefully they will be useful to someone.

-- 
Dan Wilcox
danomatika
www.robotcowboy.com
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[PD] Voice Synth Windows and/or OSX

[mark edward grimm]

I was looking at the 'ratts' externals and 'pd-flite
v0.01' - just wondering if anyone has successfully
compiled for windows and/or osx. OR any other speech
synthesis/singing synth options for either of these
platforms?

Thanks!
mark



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Re: [PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.

[Chuckk Hubbard]

On Nov 8, 2007 11:12 PM, Timothy Sikes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> First of all, this is my first email to this email group, so, I want to
> make sure that asking 'newb' questions is okay, and that this would be the
> place to email those 'newb' questions.
>

As long as you don't mind newb answers...


> I'll tell a little bit about some things that might be helpful in
> answering my questions.  I started Python when I was in 7th or 8th grade,
> and loved it.  I started working through one of the O'Reilly's Python
> books.  Now, I am taking a Java class, and loving it too ( have a 103%).
> So when I got PD, I thought I would just have to learn how to apply these
> things I've learned in Python and Java to PD.  I went through the
> documentation, and just got confused.  Next, I tried to find some basic
> tutorials on the web with no avail.  Finally, I looked at the examples that
> came with the installation. These were by far the best introduction to PD,
> and I understood them... Until I got to the flow of control ones.  It's the
> one where the counter counts up to ten, then stops, with another that is a
> counter that goes up by one, and you clear it by pressing the -1 button.
>

I am not so familiar with object-oriented programming myself, but the best
understanding I have is that it's like Pd without the pictures.  I come from
the opposite direction from you.  Actually I learned programming first with
Pd, not realizing that's what I was learning.
Each object in Pd has methods, properties, and messages.  Most of them are
pretty straightforward.
[float 0] or [f 0] is an instance of [float]; it has the property 0, which
can change, and float, which can't; it has one method to replace its value
(a float sent to its right inlet), one method to send a message of its value
(a "bang" message to its left inlet), and one method to do both in that
order (a float to the left inlet replaces and then sends a message).  Where
it sends the messages it sends, and from where it receives the instructions
it receives, are not for the object itself to worry about.

The [+ 1] object has one method to add 1 to its input and output the result
(a float to the left inlet); a method to replace the argument 1 (float to
the right inlet); and if I'm not mistaken, it also remembers its last
left-side input, so if it has already received a float to the left inlet,
then a "bang" to the left inlet repeats the operation the same as before.
AFAIK there are no other methods of the [+ 1] object; anything it does is
one of those three things.  Not including error checking (it won't accept a
symbol as input or argument).

One of the fundamental concepts of Pd that arises a lot in newbie confusion
is "depth-first message passing".  I don't know if such a thing is present
in Java or Python or not.  I'll take a stab: if two messages are sent by the
same object "at the same time", then one is always sent before the other
one, and every "method" or message instigated by the first is performed to
completion before the second message is sent; if message A goes right before
message B, but kicks off C, D, E, F, and G as results of A, no matter how
far removed, they all happen before B.  This makes the [trigger] object one
of the first to learn.  It lets you say whether A or B happens first, and it
includes a handy sort of case mechanism.  Most of the flow control derives
from this one concept, and the methods of the various objects.


> Remember, I program,  so if it could be explained as if I were
> programming, that would probably help me.  I don't understand what the term
> 'bang' refers to in these examples, along with why certain 'inlets' connect
> to certain 'outlets',  or the flow of control in the programs, or where the
> 'count' variable is and how to manipulate it.  I feel that once I understand
> these things, I'll be able to have loads of fun with PD.  So, Please help,
> and:
>

I hope I haven't insulted your intelligence with my explanation.

-Chuckk





-- 
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
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[PD] connection?

[robbert van hulzen]

hi all, hc,
i like the new look of pd-ext, but i just came across something that could
be a problem: the most recently created object now covers everything created
before (visually, i mean). while in canvases and gui objects this is of
course really useful, in objects i think it's dangerous as you may think
(read: as i thought) that the newly created object is actually connected,
because you don't see the wire going through the object.
just my thoughts on a beautiful night in barcelona :)

-- 
pd-0.40.3-extended-20071106
mac osx 10.4.8, 15" G4 PB 1.67 GHz, 1 GB ram



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Re: [PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Timothy Sikes hat gesagt: // Timothy Sikes wrote:

> Until I got to the flow of control ones.  It's the one where the
> counter counts up to ten, then stops, with another that is a counter
> that goes up by one, and you clear it by pressing the -1 button.

Maybe attached counting.pd tutorial helps a bit, it's more verbose.

> Remember, I program,  so if it could be explained as if I were
> programming, that would probably help me.  I don't understand what
> the term 'bang' refers to in these examples, along with why certain
> 'inlets' connect to certain 'outlets',  or the flow of control in
> the programs, or where the 'count' variable is and how to manipulate
> it.  I feel that once I understand these things, I'll be able to
> have loads of fun with PD. 

You feel right: I'd say, understanding execution order, the trigger
object and hot and cold inlets are *the* imporant next steps now for
you.

I'll give it a shot: 

Message objects (I only talk about these now) in Pd talk to each other
by sending each other messages through patch cords into inlets. The
objects generate messages on their outlets.  Almost every object
reacts to certain special messages (float-messages, symbol-messages,
"meta-messages" like "open filename" or "set tablename" etc.) and also
to the bang-message, which is like a default message saying "do your
thing, object, and do it now!" 

Example: The [float] or [f] object for example accepts two kinds of
messages in its first inlet: float-messages (numbers) and the "bang"
message.  Float messages will set the stored number and output it. The
bang message will not change the stored number but only make the [f]
object "do its thing" which is: output the stored number.

So far that should have been easy, now the tricky part: In almost
every object only the first inlet will make the object generate
output. (Exceptions are the time-objects [timer], [realtime])

This inlet is called the "hot inlet". Other inlets that don't generate
output are "cold inlets". 

With this knowledge, you can already understand the counter idiom, if
you closely watch what is happening at each object with every step or
bang. Here's the counter idiom in ASCII:

 [f 0]x[+ 1]
 |
 [print result]

Note: The outlet of [f] is connected to the "hot" left inlet of the [+
1], but the outlet of [+ 1] is connected to the "cold" right inlet of
the [f]. 

First step: "bang" the [f]

  What happens is, that the stored number, 0 at first, is sent to the
  [+ 1] which adds 1 so we get 1 and immediatly (because the inlet of
  [+ 1] was hot) sends the 1 back to the [f]. At this time, the 1 is
  sent into a cold inlet, so the [f] only stores the 1 but doesn't
  generate any further output and execution stops here.

Second step: "bang" the [f] again

  Now the [f] has a 1 stored, which will be sent to the [+ 1] which
  adds 1 again so we get 2. Immediatly (because the inlet was hot) the
  2 gets sent to the cold inlet of the [f], is stored there and we're
  done again.

Further steps go on and on like this.

An interesting alternative step now is resetting the counter: You do
this for example by sending a "0" to the [float]'s *cold* inlet, the
right one. This will not generate any output, but only set the stored
number so that the whole system is ready to start again at 'First
step: "bang" the [f]'

As soon as you understand the counter idiom, you have made a huge step
to understand Pd in general. After that try to understand the [trigger]
object and how outlets "fire" in right to left order and how this
ideally fits the right-to-left order of cold-to-hot inlets. But that's
homework until the next lesson. ;)

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__


counting.pd
Description: application/puredata
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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote:

> you're question is not silly at all, since there seems to be no
> help-file anymore at all, that could be consulted. 

Seems it's missing in the CVS, probable Miller forgot to check it in.
It's in the archive on Miller's site, though.

Attached is the one from
http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Software/pd-0.41-0test06.src.tar.gz

> the option '-stdpath' does add pathes relative to 'Pd' (whatever this
> means). 

Good question. The help file seems unfinished when talking about
"relative to the Pd": "the Pd" what? ;) 

I wrongly assumed it was relative to the Pd binary, which on Linux
e.g. is in /usr/bin/pd but actually now I believe it means relative to
the Pd "stdpath" which is the directory above "extra", "doc" and "bin"
i.e.  /usr/lib/pd in Linux. This would somehow correspond to the
"-stdpath" command line option, that enables searching in "extra".

At least this would make more sense, as the binary may be everywhere
in the system search path for executable so it wouldn't be useful to
specify a path relative to that.

Anyway see my other mail: -stdpath seems to be broken in 0.40. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__


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Description: application/puredata
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Re: [PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.

[Uğur Güney]

# Hi,
# The framework of PD is somewhat different than Java and Phyton. Java is a
language in which the code is first compiled then run. While running, the
objects are created in memory according to code.
# In PD, you are creating the objects in realtime. If you create (put) an
object its place in memory is allocated automatically (and deallocated when
you deleted it) It is something like a debug mode.
# To have something similar to double or float in Java there is an [float]
object, [f] is its abbreviation.
# [f] is similar to "float x;" and [f 10] is equivalent to "float x = 10;"
# In Java the code is run sequentially, one line after another. But in PD
there is no such sequantial listing. You have to connect events in an
cause&effect manner.
# |bang( is a message which activates the primary purposes of the objects.
For example [f] holds a number. If you send a |bang( to its inlet it outputs
what it keeps, and this output can be used to trigger another objects. You
can feed the inlet other things than bang. (You can look at their help to
learn which inlet is what for)
# so, the idiom "x=x+1" can be done in PD way: Create an [f 0] object. This
allocate a slot for a number in memory and initializes it with 0. Create a
|bang( message and connect to [f]'s left inlet. Create an [+ 1] object and
connect the outlet of the [f] to the left inlet of [+]. When you click on
bang, it sends a bang message to [f], [f] outputs the value in it and this
value goes to [+ 1], plus is triggered by the incoming number and outputs
the incremented number. So, this way we finished the "x+1" part. let assign
this value to x. This is done by connecting the output of [+ 1] to the right
inlet of [f]. Right inlet of a float assigns the incoming number to the slot
in the memory like the left inlet. But unlike it, f does not output if right
inlet is used (which is called "cold inlet") if you use left inlet (don't
use it!) as you can see, the patch will fall in a loop.
# This is some kind of explanation in the perspective of traditional
programming.
# Good luck!
-uğur-



On Nov 8, 2007 11:12 PM, Timothy Sikes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> First of all, this is my first email to this email group, so, I want to
> make sure that asking 'newb' questions is okay, and that this would be the
> place to email those 'newb' questions.
>
> I'll tell a little bit about some things that might be helpful in
> answering my questions.  I started Python when I was in 7th or 8th grade,
> and loved it.  I started working through one of the O'Reilly's Python
> books.  Now, I am taking a Java class, and loving it too ( have a 103%).
> So when I got PD, I thought I would just have to learn how to apply these
> things I've learned in Python and Java to PD.  I went through the
> documentation, and just got confused.  Next, I tried to find some basic
> tutorials on the web with no avail.  Finally, I looked at the examples that
> came with the installation. These were by far the best introduction to PD,
> and I understood them... Until I got to the flow of control ones.  It's the
> one where the counter counts up to ten, then stops, with another that is a
> counter that goes up by one, and you clear it by pressing the -1 button.
>
> Remember, I program,  so if it could be explained as if I were
> programming, that would probably help me.  I don't understand what the term
> 'bang' refers to in these examples, along with why certain 'inlets' connect
> to certain 'outlets',  or the flow of control in the programs, or where the
> 'count' variable is and how to manipulate it.  I feel that once I understand
> these things, I'll be able to have loads of fun with PD.  So, Please help,
> and:
>
> Thank you.
> --
> Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble
> challenge with star power. Play 
> Now!
>
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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Roman Haefeli]

On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 22:01 +0100, Steffen Juul wrote:
> On 08/11/2007, at 21.34, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> 
> > however, there seem to be a bug with '-stdpath' on os x.
> 
> Does it work as you'd think on your system?


yeah, i can instantiate [bp2~] from extra/iemabs, if i have a

[declare -stdpath ../extra/iemabs]

in my patch. 

(note: [declare] doesn't add the path immediately, you have to save and
open the patch again)

what in practice is '../extra/iemabs' is in the help of [declare] called
'relative to pd'. miller said once, that 'pd' is by some mistake assumed
to be in pd/src. that is why it is required to prepend '../' before
'extra/somelib'.

roman







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Re: [PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.

[Andy Farnell]

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:12:19 -0600
Timothy Sikes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> HiFirst of all, this is my first email to this email group, so, I want to 
> make sure that asking 'newb' questions is okay, and that this would be the
> place to email those 'newb' questions.

Welcome Tim,

Certainly you can ask noob questions, it's what the list is for
and things are pretty friendly here, you won't get any RTFM nonsense
unless the question is a really obvious FAQ that you would find with
a simple Google search.

> I went through the documentation, and just got confused. 

Out of interest, which documentation are you refering to? 
Some of it is for reference and is rather terse, like any
programming language I suppose. 

> Next, I tried to find some basic tutorials on the web with no avail. 

I have written some new tutorials which are very basic, hopefully 
I'll get time to web publish them ahead of the textbook from which
they are taken. Meanwhile have another look because there are
several others here on this list who have written excellent tuts.
The Pd community is currently in a phase of intensive documentation
and reordering existing stuff with a new multi-language wiki. Try
using different search terms such as "Puredata tutorials" and
"Pd tutorials". "Pure data" (two words) tends to lead to poor results.
There's also a searchable forum with lots of beginner questions
archived.


> Finally, I looked at the examples that came with the installation. 
> These were by far the best introduction to PD, and I understood them...

Yes they are well thought out and simple. Don't forget that you can access
help on any object by right clicking it and choosing "help".

> Until I got to the flow of control ones.  It's the one where the counter
> counts up to ten, then stops, with another that is a counter that goes up by
>  one, and you clear it by pressing the -1 button. Remember, I program,  so
> if it could be explained as if I were programming, that would probably help 
> me.

Dataflow is a programing language, but rarely do any tutorials take the longest
view and step back to explain it in detail. It is a bit like the "canned loop" 
you
get in GUI frameworks, an event driven system where the entire ensemble of
objects is periodically evaluated.

> I don't understand what the term 'bang' refers to in these examples,

A bang is a message. It is a most primitive message that just means
"compute something". A bang causes the object that receives it to update
its state, which usually means outputing its current value or moving
to its next state.

> along with why certain 'inlets' connect to certain 'outlets',  or the
> flow of control in the programs

Stop thinking about flow of control so much and think about flow of data
In visual dataflow programs each box is an object. From an OO point of
view you can think of objects as things that only have methods which
take data and only return values that are data. Data drives everything.

> where the 'count' variable is and how to manipulate it.

The count "variable" is an internal part of the [float] object. 
You can't read it directly except by banging the float which accesses
a method to retrieve the current value.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions. Like all languages doing it
practically will cement the principles in place. The curve is quite
steep, however you will find that after a few weeks it all suddenly falls
into place rather quickly.


-- 
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Re: [PD] stupid GUI tricks

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

The patches are window_name-help.pd and canvas_name-help.pd in  
"5.reference/hcs".  In needs to be today's build.  It seems that  
[canvas_name] didn't make it into some, I'll check once I get a moment.

.hc

On Nov 8, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Dafydd Hughes wrote:

> I may have spoke too soon, but I found the answer to alpha here:
>
>> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png
>
> Still trying to figure out how the background colour works (can't make
> it go by copying the patch in the screenshot), but the object  
> colouring
> came from Hans' themer.pd patch - can't find the original email tho:(
>
> cheers
> dafydd
>
> Phil Stone wrote:
>> Care to let me in on the secret?  I was messing with it at lunch, and
>> couldn't for the life of me figure out how to change the background
>> color of an object.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> Dafydd Hughes wrote:
>>> Forget it. I was indeed missing what was right in front of me.
>>>
>>> Dafydd Hughes wrote:
>>>
 Hey Hans

 I'm _dying_to try this, but can't figure out how to access it. Are
 there new commands for the themer patch? Or am I (like usual) just
 missing what's right in front of me?

 cheers
 dafydd

 Jerome Tuncer wrote:

> In my opinion, this is not _stupid_ GUI tricks at all...
>
> Being asked on the differences between Pd and Max/MSP, how many
> times have I answered starting with "The GUI in pd isn't really as
> cool and smart as it is in Max/MSP but the DSP capabilities are in
> the end very similar".
>
> My answer to the lack of GUI elegance is very often a salad of
> overlaying [cnv]'s to make patches look more attractive and thus
> very often more readable.
>
> This kind of effort is not stupid, it is great GUI improvement  
> in my
> opinion.
>
> ++
>
>
> J?
>
> Another off-thread thing : I'm really looking forward to the  
> day pd
> will not suffer that much from its GUI implementation : simple
> slider or table visualization/monitoring sometimes being the main
> reason for a ultra complex DSP patch to bo so heavy on the
> computer/resources ! (-:
>
> Hans-Christoph Steiner a ?crit :
>
>> Ok, all this Tcl/Tk has started to rot my brain, so here are some
>> stupid GUI tricks:
>>
>> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png
>>
>> - change patch background colors in a patch!
>> - make your patches transparent!
>> - use lots of Tcl/Tk config options!
>>
>> Works on my machine :D and hopefully tomorrow's auto-builds...
>>
>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-11-08/
>>
>> (if that link does work, it's not there yet)
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>
>> - 
>> ---
>> 
>>
>> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther
>> King, Jr.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] stupid GUI tricks

[Dafydd Hughes]

I may have spoke too soon, but I found the answer to alpha here:

 > http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png

Still trying to figure out how the background colour works (can't make 
it go by copying the patch in the screenshot), but the object colouring 
came from Hans' themer.pd patch - can't find the original email tho:(

cheers
dafydd

Phil Stone wrote:
> Care to let me in on the secret?  I was messing with it at lunch, and 
> couldn't for the life of me figure out how to change the background 
> color of an object.
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> Dafydd Hughes wrote:
>> Forget it. I was indeed missing what was right in front of me.
>>
>> Dafydd Hughes wrote:
>>  
>>> Hey Hans
>>>
>>> I'm _dying_to try this, but can't figure out how to access it. Are 
>>> there new commands for the themer patch? Or am I (like usual) just 
>>> missing what's right in front of me?
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> dafydd
>>>
>>> Jerome Tuncer wrote:
>>>
 In my opinion, this is not _stupid_ GUI tricks at all...

 Being asked on the differences between Pd and Max/MSP, how many 
 times have I answered starting with "The GUI in pd isn't really as 
 cool and smart as it is in Max/MSP but the DSP capabilities are in 
 the end very similar".

 My answer to the lack of GUI elegance is very often a salad of 
 overlaying [cnv]'s to make patches look more attractive and thus 
 very often more readable.

 This kind of effort is not stupid, it is great GUI improvement in my 
 opinion.

 ++


 J?

 Another off-thread thing : I'm really looking forward to the day pd 
 will not suffer that much from its GUI implementation : simple 
 slider or table visualization/monitoring sometimes being the main 
 reason for a ultra complex DSP patch to bo so heavy on the 
 computer/resources ! (-:

 Hans-Christoph Steiner a ?crit :
  
> Ok, all this Tcl/Tk has started to rot my brain, so here are some  
> stupid GUI tricks:
>
> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png
>
> - change patch background colors in a patch!
> - make your patches transparent!
> - use lots of Tcl/Tk config options!
>
> Works on my machine :D and hopefully tomorrow's auto-builds...
>
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-11-08/
>
> (if that link does work, it's not there yet)
>
> .hc
>
>
>  
> 
>
> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
> King, Jr.
>
>
>
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>>   
> 

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[PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.

[Timothy Sikes]

HiFirst of all, this is my first email to this email group, so, I want to make 
sure that asking 'newb' questions is okay, and that this would be the place to 
email those 'newb' questions.I'll tell a little bit about some things that 
might be helpful in answering my questions.  I started Python when I was in 7th 
or 8th grade, and loved it.  I started working through one of the O'Reilly's 
Python books.  Now, I am taking a Java class, and loving it too ( have a 103%). 
  So when I got PD, I thought I would just have to learn how to apply these 
things I've learned in Python and Java to PD.  I went through the 
documentation, and just got confused.  Next, I tried to find some basic 
tutorials on the web with no avail.  Finally, I looked at the examples that 
came with the installation. These were by far the best introduction to PD, and 
I understood them... Until I got to the flow of control ones.  It's the one 
where the counter counts up to ten, then stops, with another that is a counter 
that goes up by one, and you clear it by pressing the -1 button. Remember, I 
program,  so if it could be explained as if I were programming, that would 
probably help me.  I don't understand what the term 'bang' refers to in these 
examples, along with why certain 'inlets' connect to certain 'outlets',  or the 
flow of control in the programs, or where the 'count' variable is and how to 
manipulate it.  I feel that once I understand these things, I'll be able to 
have loads of fun with PD.  So, Please help, and:Thank you.
_
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Re: [PD] stupid GUI tricks

[Phil Stone]

Care to let me in on the secret?  I was messing with it at lunch, and 
couldn't for the life of me figure out how to change the background 
color of an object.


Phil

Dafydd Hughes wrote:
> Forget it. I was indeed missing what was right in front of me.
>
> Dafydd Hughes wrote:
>   
>> Hey Hans
>>
>> I'm _dying_to try this, but can't figure out how to access it. Are there 
>> new commands for the themer patch? Or am I (like usual) just missing 
>> what's right in front of me?
>>
>> cheers
>> dafydd
>>
>> Jerome Tuncer wrote:
>> 
>>> In my opinion, this is not _stupid_ GUI tricks at all...
>>>
>>> Being asked on the differences between Pd and Max/MSP, how many times 
>>> have I answered starting with "The GUI in pd isn't really as cool and 
>>> smart as it is in Max/MSP but the DSP capabilities are in the end very 
>>> similar".
>>>
>>> My answer to the lack of GUI elegance is very often a salad of 
>>> overlaying [cnv]'s to make patches look more attractive and thus very 
>>> often more readable.
>>>
>>> This kind of effort is not stupid, it is great GUI improvement in my 
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>> ++
>>>
>>>
>>> J?
>>>
>>> Another off-thread thing : I'm really looking forward to the day pd 
>>> will not suffer that much from its GUI implementation : simple slider 
>>> or table visualization/monitoring sometimes being the main reason for 
>>> a ultra complex DSP patch to bo so heavy on the computer/resources ! (-:
>>>
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner a ?crit :
>>>   
 Ok, all this Tcl/Tk has started to rot my brain, so here are some  
 stupid GUI tricks:

 http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png

 - change patch background colors in a patch!
 - make your patches transparent!
 - use lots of Tcl/Tk config options!

 Works on my machine :D and hopefully tomorrow's auto-builds...

 http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-11-08/

 (if that link does work, it's not there yet)

 .hc


  
 

 The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
 King, Jr.



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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Steffen Juul]

On 08/11/2007, at 17.45, Steffen Juul wrote:

>
> On 08/11/2007, at 14.50, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>
>> Btw.: When doing this on Linux with a testpatch in "/tmp/ 
>> funkytest.pd"
>> my Pd searches for [unknown] give only /tmp/funkypathname/ as  
>> possible
>> results with the funky pathname,
>
> Here, on OS X, it looks for funkypathname in ${HOME}/Desktop. There
> is no search in /tmp.

Dum bum. I must add a note. The test patch was located in ${HOME}/ 
Desktop. I tested other locations too. So its like -stdpath was doing  
it's thing relative to the Pd path. Just as in your test.

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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Steffen Juul]

On 08/11/2007, at 21.34, Roman Haefeli wrote:

> however, there seem to be a bug with '-stdpath' on os x.

Does it work as you'd think on your system?

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Re: [PD] preferences (was: [declare] trouble)

[robbert van hulzen]

Steffen Juul wrote:

>To quote Hans [1]:
> ... 
> This one comes with Pd-extended and sets the default preferences.  If
> someone creates, ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.list, this one
> will be ignored.

h... i guess i didn't rtfm... don't remember exactly what i did, but
deleting the prefs file now did the trick. that seems to mean it wasn't
ignored, but anyway, it works now.

Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Isn't it
> possible on OS-X to tweak a preference file once and for all and use
> it with each new Pd version like the ~/.pdrc and ~/.pdsettings files
> are kept on Linux?

Luke Iannini wrote:
> 
> The .pdrc works great on OS X, exactly as one would hope now with the
> embedded prefs: the embedded prefs take care of configuring Pd-Extended and
> my .pdrc takes care of adding the things I'm interested in.

thanks! .pdrc works for startup flags. for loading libs, you don't specify a
path? the embedded prefs don't either. does that have to do with the fact
that it's embedded (maybe i'm asking more than i need to know / will
understand).

thanks for the patience!



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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[robbert van hulzen]

can i ask a silly question? what's the difference between -path and
-stdpath? -path just uses that path once? in any case, i didn't get that to
work either--and from previous posts, it seems other people did. or not on
osx?
however, i sorted things out with the prefs file, so i guess i won't need
[declare], not at the moment.
cheers, robbert

"Roman Haefeli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> after all the talk how the preferences file on OS X works, this issue
> remains unresolved.
> 
> sorry to nag with this, but there is no point in having an object and
> not knowing how it works. did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag
> '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from
> extra to pd's searchpathes?
>



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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Roman Haefeli]

hi robbert

you're question is not silly at all, since there seems to be no
help-file anymore at all, that could be consulted. 

iirc, the '-path' option adds a path, that could be specified relatively
to the patch, that holds the [declare]. as i understand it, it can be
used for projects, that have a structure like this:

mainpatch.pd
  \ 
directory/someabstractions.pd
   | 
otherdirectory/moreabstractions.pd

with a [declare -path directory -path otherdirectory] in mainpatch.pd it
is easy to distribute the whole project and it will work everywhere
without havin to modify the pd-settingsfile. and unlike a path from the
pd-settings, the classes [someabstraction] and [moreabstractions] are
only available in mainpatch.pd (which means: pathes added by [declare]
don't add pathes to pd's searchpathes in general, but only to the
patch's searchpathes)

 - it is basically the same

the option '-stdpath' does add pathes relative to 'Pd' (whatever this
means). as far as i understand, you can use it to add a directory from
extra to the patch's searchpathes. this could be practical, if you have
two different patches open, and one uses [counter] from 'extra/cyclone'
and the other uses a [counter] from 'extra/'.

  - it is basically the same, as you would create [cyclone/counter] and
[/counter].
 

when specifying absolute pathes, '-stdpath' and '-path' shouldn't make
any difference, afaik. 

afaik, it is the same with '-stdlib' and '-lib', but in this case the
classes are loaded for all patches, not only for the one, that holds the
[declare].

however, there seem to be a bug with '-stdpath' on os x. 

roman



On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 20:49 +0100, robbert van hulzen wrote:
> can i ask a silly question? what's the difference between -path and
> -stdpath? -path just uses that path once? in any case, i didn't get that to
> work either--and from previous posts, it seems other people did. or not on
> osx?
> however, i sorted things out with the prefs file, so i guess i won't need
> [declare], not at the moment.
> cheers, robbert
> 
> "Roman Haefeli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > after all the talk how the preferences file on OS X works, this issue
> > remains unresolved.
> > 
> > sorry to nag with this, but there is no point in having an object and
> > not knowing how it works. did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag
> > '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from
> > extra to pd's searchpathes?
> >
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] stupid GUI tricks

[Dafydd Hughes]

Forget it. I was indeed missing what was right in front of me.

Dafydd Hughes wrote:
> Hey Hans
> 
> I'm _dying_to try this, but can't figure out how to access it. Are there 
> new commands for the themer patch? Or am I (like usual) just missing 
> what's right in front of me?
> 
> cheers
> dafydd
> 
> Jerome Tuncer wrote:
>> In my opinion, this is not _stupid_ GUI tricks at all...
>>
>> Being asked on the differences between Pd and Max/MSP, how many times 
>> have I answered starting with "The GUI in pd isn't really as cool and 
>> smart as it is in Max/MSP but the DSP capabilities are in the end very 
>> similar".
>>
>> My answer to the lack of GUI elegance is very often a salad of 
>> overlaying [cnv]'s to make patches look more attractive and thus very 
>> often more readable.
>>
>> This kind of effort is not stupid, it is great GUI improvement in my 
>> opinion.
>>
>> ++
>>
>>
>> J?
>>
>> Another off-thread thing : I'm really looking forward to the day pd 
>> will not suffer that much from its GUI implementation : simple slider 
>> or table visualization/monitoring sometimes being the main reason for 
>> a ultra complex DSP patch to bo so heavy on the computer/resources ! (-:
>>
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner a ?crit :
>>> Ok, all this Tcl/Tk has started to rot my brain, so here are some  
>>> stupid GUI tricks:
>>>
>>> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png
>>>
>>> - change patch background colors in a patch!
>>> - make your patches transparent!
>>> - use lots of Tcl/Tk config options!
>>>
>>> Works on my machine :D and hopefully tomorrow's auto-builds...
>>>
>>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-11-08/
>>>
>>> (if that link does work, it's not there yet)
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> 
>>>
>>> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
>>> King, Jr.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [PD] Multiple videos on different Screens with gem

[B. Bogart]

Hi,

I'm using a nvidia 8500 card under linux using one single gemwin
spanning both screens. Certainly does not fall back to software rendering.

I would hope the nvidia quatro cards would do the same, but I've never
used one.

If your just playing videos look into ivysync.

Perhaps even Hans managed to get his VLC remote control through PD to
work, which could mean having a fullscreen VLC on each screen (I'm not
sure if vlc is multi-screen aware though.

I would not expect GL to work equally on all 5 screens, I would do lots
of tests before you expect it to work.

.b.

Robert Gruendler wrote:
> The hardware setup is the following:
> 
> 2 FireMV 2400 pci express cards. Each card has 4 outputs. (didn't
> choose the hardware setup, only have to work with it...)
> 
> Basically i need to have 2 setups:
> 
> - Play 5 different videos on 5 different screens
> 
> - Play 1 ultra-wide video over 5 screens (4 outputs on first card, 1
> output on second)
> 
> 
> Is there any chance this will work (performance-wise) ?
> 
> I havent really started working on the patch yet, that's why i
> thought i might consult someone
> with more insight/experience with gem.
> 
> -robert
> 
> On Nov 7, 2007 9:10 AM, chris clepper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What sort of hardware setup?  If you have multiple graphics cards
>> driving the displays then having one instance of Pd/GEM per card is
>> the best way to work.  Spreading one context over multiple cards will
>> fall back to software rendering and be very slow.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2007 10:53 AM, Robert Gruendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> i'm having a setup with 4 projectors connected to a win xp box and
>>> would need to play 4 different videos at the same time (one on each
>>> screen).
>>>
>>> I've already searched the mailing list, and found some information
>>> about a cvs version of gem that supports multiple gemwins.
>>> The  version of gem i'm using is 0.91-cvs (the one coming with the
>>> latest pd-extended), but it seems i can't create multiple windows.
>>>
>>> When i try to create a second gemwin, i'm getting "error: GEM: gemwin:
>>> window already made".
>>>
>>> Is there a way to accomplish this without opening several instances of pd ?
>>>
>>> thanks for your help,
>>>
>>>
>>> -robert
>>>
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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Steffen Juul]

On 08/11/2007, at 14.50, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
> Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote:
>
>> This is what i did for testing:
>>
>> Made a folder in extra called test. In that i made an abstraction
>> called testing.pd which was just a wrapper around a [print].
>>
>> Then i made a new test patch which as:
>> [declare -stdpath extra/test]
>> [testing]
>
> Okay, here's another test you could do to find out where declare tries
> to add the stdpath
>
> Make a patch with [declare -stdpath funkypathname] or another unique
> name you definitely know doesn't exist, then load it while Pd was
> started with "-verbose". Try to create an unknown object like
> [unknown] and search for "funkypathname" in Pd's error output.

Verbose. Clever, Frank!

Now i also got the awnser to the other question. It will look for  
[fiddle~] in a fiddle~ folder in extra - or any other folder in the  
path. I had no idea.
That basically mean that if an objectclass live in a folder baring  
the same name as the objectclass the it will be found. Fx having
extra/grid/grid.pd(_)
will mean that a [grid] object will be fund and created _without_  
specifying it in the search-path settings...

> Btw.: When doing this on Linux with a testpatch in "/tmp/funkytest.pd"
> my Pd searches for [unknown] give only /tmp/funkypathname/ as possible
> results with the funky pathname,

Here, on OS X, it looks for funkypathname in ${HOME}/Desktop. There  
is no search in /tmp.

> which is wrong: according to the
> docs, -stdpath should search relative to the Pd binary, not relative
> to the path, which is what [declare -path  ...] should do.

On OS X, when Pd is installed as a .app application, the binary isn't  
located such that extra is one step up in the folder tree. So as such  
the example and the definition of the behavior in the help file  
contradicts.

> Looks like another [declare]-bug. (Maybe already reported?)

Don't know if Roman already did. Searching for 'declare' in the  
tracker only shows up your report.

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Re: [PD] a patch closing itself

[Steffen Juul]

On 08/11/2007, at 3.24, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> I removed the "Close this Window?" prompt in Pd-extended.  (I  
> suppose it would be better to make it a preference...)  Therefore  
> [; menuclose 0( in Pd-extended is the same as [; menuclose 1( in pd- 
> vanilla.

Ah. So it's the same behavior all over that set. I didn't realize.  
And menuclose default to 0.

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[PD] Growing patch-window size (Was:Re: changing the look of Pd to be more readable)

[Steffen Juul]

On 07/11/2007, at 19.07, marius schebella wrote:


you can start searching in 2002.


Now i don't know if i repeat anyone from the past. I apologize  
beforehand.



Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

If there isn't a bug report for this, please file one and I'll take a
look when I get a chance.


Maybe we can keep it on list for a few bits more.

I made a patch to test the behavior. This is the test:

1) Note that the patch is 500x300 initially. Either by opening in a  
text editor or with 'head -1' or.

2) Open the attached patch. Click the [10( on one of the sides.
3) Note that the patch has grown to 504x304

Now the weird bit.

4) with out closing the patch, click the [10( again.
5) Note that it has _not_ grown to 508x308.
6) Close the patch
7) Reopen the patch
8) Click the [bang(
9) Note that it has now grown to 508x308

So it seams it grows 4px per run with a reload.

More weirdness. Or observations.

10) Now try the above but clicking the [100( on either side.
11) Note that it still only increases by 4px.

12) Close and reopen the patch.
13) Just save it as you normally would.
14) Note that only one save increases the size 4px.

15) Note that using either the [until] method or the [delay] method  
doesn't make a difference.




grow.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] stupid GUI tricks

[Dafydd Hughes]

Hey Hans

I'm _dying_to try this, but can't figure out how to access it. Are there 
new commands for the themer patch? Or am I (like usual) just missing 
what's right in front of me?

cheers
dafydd

Jerome Tuncer wrote:
> In my opinion, this is not _stupid_ GUI tricks at all...
> 
> Being asked on the differences between Pd and Max/MSP, how many times 
> have I answered starting with "The GUI in pd isn't really as cool and 
> smart as it is in Max/MSP but the DSP capabilities are in the end very 
> similar".
> 
> My answer to the lack of GUI elegance is very often a salad of 
> overlaying [cnv]'s to make patches look more attractive and thus very 
> often more readable.
> 
> This kind of effort is not stupid, it is great GUI improvement in my 
> opinion.
> 
> ++
> 
> 
> Jé
> 
> Another off-thread thing : I'm really looking forward to the day pd will 
> not suffer that much from its GUI implementation : simple slider or 
> table visualization/monitoring sometimes being the main reason for a 
> ultra complex DSP patch to bo so heavy on the computer/resources ! (-:
> 
> Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>> Ok, all this Tcl/Tk has started to rot my brain, so here are some  
>> stupid GUI tricks:
>>
>> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png
>>
>> - change patch background colors in a patch!
>> - make your patches transparent!
>> - use lots of Tcl/Tk config options!
>>
>> Works on my machine :D and hopefully tomorrow's auto-builds...
>>
>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-11-08/
>>
>> (if that link does work, it's not there yet)
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
>> King, Jr.
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
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skype chickeninthegrass

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Re: [PD] glsl code

[marius schebella]

hmm, sometimes writing emails brings new ideas.
I replaced the two floats with one vec2 pass_other
and that works.
marius.

-
uniform sampler2D texture;
varying vec2 texcoord0;
uniform vec4 hithresh;  // hi and lo threshold
uniform vec4 lothresh;
uniform vec2 pass_other;

void main()
{
vec4 A = texture2D(texture, texcoord0);
A.a = pass_other[0];
if ((A.r >= hithresh.r) || (A.r <= lothresh.r))
{
A.a = pass_other[1];
}
gl_FragColor = A;

}



marius schebella wrote:
> hi,
> is it possible to ask shader related questions on the pd list? I am 
> trying to write pix_alpha as a shader, but for now I have problems with 
> the glsl code. (maybe you can also point me to a shader forum or mailing 
> list that you know is good?)
> I have a fragment shader, which is not working, and I don't know why.
> the problem is that "A.a = other" does not set the value correct (it 
> always sets 0).
> If I write A.a = 0.5 for example, then it is working.
> The variables are passed correctly, all other variables work too, so I 
> think it is really a problem of how glsl works, and an error in the 
> code. what it should do is when the red pixel value is within a certain 
> range, the alpha value should be set to the pass value, and if it is 
> outside, it should be set to the other value. (similar to pix_alpha, but 
> only with red at the moment)
> thanks,
> marius.
> 
> -
> // red pix alpha
> 
> uniform sampler2D texture;
> varying vec2 texcoord0;
> 
> uniform vec4 hithresh;// hi and lo threshold
> uniform vec4 lothresh;
> uniform float pass;
> uniform float other;
> 
> void main()
> {
> vec4 A = texture2D(texture, texcoord0);
> A.a = pass;
> if ((A.r >= hithresh.r) || (A.r <= lothresh.r))
> {
> A.a = other;
> }
> gl_FragColor = A;
> }
> 


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[PD] glsl code

[marius schebella]

hi,
is it possible to ask shader related questions on the pd list? I am 
trying to write pix_alpha as a shader, but for now I have problems with 
the glsl code. (maybe you can also point me to a shader forum or mailing 
list that you know is good?)
I have a fragment shader, which is not working, and I don't know why.
the problem is that "A.a = other" does not set the value correct (it 
always sets 0).
If I write A.a = 0.5 for example, then it is working.
The variables are passed correctly, all other variables work too, so I 
think it is really a problem of how glsl works, and an error in the 
code. what it should do is when the red pixel value is within a certain 
range, the alpha value should be set to the pass value, and if it is 
outside, it should be set to the other value. (similar to pix_alpha, but 
only with red at the moment)
thanks,
marius.

-
// red pix alpha

uniform sampler2D texture;
varying vec2 texcoord0;

uniform vec4 hithresh;  // hi and lo threshold
uniform vec4 lothresh;
uniform float pass;
uniform float other;

void main()
{
vec4 A = texture2D(texture, texcoord0);
A.a = pass;
if ((A.r >= hithresh.r) || (A.r <= lothresh.r))
{
A.a = other;
}
gl_FragColor = A;
}

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Re: [PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?

[Chuckk Hubbard]

On Nov 6, 2007 3:34 PM, cdr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > when you say Tcl is
> > wacky, just how wacky do you mean?  I noticed that its handling of most
> > programming capabilities is pretty off-beat, but I'm finding it very
> easy to
> > learn and understand. Would you say there are serious
> > flaws or inefficiencies, or is it just idiosyncratic?
>
> in the 'scripting language written in C' category, Perl wins any
> idiosyncratic contest. TCL also far from Lua in speed. like Lua and unlike
> all the others (Python, Ruby), you have to invent your own OO system,
> however Lua has syntactic sugar for 'object methods' and a native language
> feature for 'method lookup' so it has an edge here. all of the above are
> embeddable in C apps to some extent, but Lua wins that contest handily,
> being designed for that from the start.
>

Thank you very much for all this info.  It may not mean much to you, but
it's very useful for me.
I'm leaning now towards building the program in C, with Tk bindings; my 2
most beloved audio tools are open-source C, Pd and Csound, and my free days
are numbered, so I think I'll spend them practicing a language I need to
know better anyway.  I'll save this email.

-Chuckk

-- 
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
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Re: [PD] stupid GUI tricks

[Jerome Tuncer]

In my opinion, this is not _stupid_ GUI tricks at all...

Being asked on the differences between Pd and Max/MSP, how many times 
have I answered starting with "The GUI in pd isn't really as cool and 
smart as it is in Max/MSP but the DSP capabilities are in the end very 
similar".

My answer to the lack of GUI elegance is very often a salad of 
overlaying [cnv]'s to make patches look more attractive and thus very 
often more readable.

This kind of effort is not stupid, it is great GUI improvement in my 
opinion.

++


Jé

Another off-thread thing : I'm really looking forward to the day pd will 
not suffer that much from its GUI implementation : simple slider or 
table visualization/monitoring sometimes being the main reason for a 
ultra complex DSP patch to bo so heavy on the computer/resources ! (-:

Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
> Ok, all this Tcl/Tk has started to rot my brain, so here are some  
> stupid GUI tricks:
> 
> http://eds.org/~hans/pdsketch/stupidguitricks.png
> 
> - change patch background colors in a patch!
> - make your patches transparent!
> - use lots of Tcl/Tk config options!
> 
> Works on my machine :D and hopefully tomorrow's auto-builds...
> 
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-11-08/
> 
> (if that link does work, it's not there yet)
> 
> .hc
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
> King, Jr.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote:

> This is what i did for testing:
> 
> Made a folder in extra called test. In that i made an abstraction  
> called testing.pd which was just a wrapper around a [print].
> 
> Then i made a new test patch which as:
> [declare -stdpath extra/test]
> [testing]

Okay, here's another test you could do to find out where declare tries
to add the stdpath

Make a patch with [declare -stdpath funkypathname] or another unique
name you definitely know doesn't exist, then load it while Pd was
started with "-verbose". Try to create an unknown object like
[unknown] and search for "funkypathname" in Pd's error output.

Btw.: When doing this on Linux with a testpatch in "/tmp/funkytest.pd"
my Pd searches for [unknown] give only /tmp/funkypathname/ as possible
results with the funky pathname, which is wrong: according to the
docs, -stdpath should search relative to the Pd binary, not relative
to the path, which is what [declare -path  ...] should do. Looks like
another [declare]-bug. (Maybe already reported?)

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?

[Patrice Colet]

Patrice Colet a écrit :
> Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Patrice Colet wrote:
>>
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
 Tcl is whacky, but Tk is quite flexible and well developed for 
 making GUIs. Check out tomorrow's auto-build if you want to make 
 your mouse cursor turn into gumby :)  It's in hcs/cursor-help.pd
 .hc
>>>
>>> Hi, I had a look lately into your externals, and tried [cursor], it 
>>> seems that the canvas takes the mouse binding, then when the cursor 
>>> is dragged outside the message box, the selected cursor disappears 
>>> and takes place to the usual arrow. I've no idea how to resolve this 
>>> unfortunately, it happens on win32.
>>
>> I fixed this, it's in today's autobuild, except there is a problem 
>> with the windows builds :(
> 
> I've just recompiled from todays cvs update, the cursor-help.pd gives me 
> several errors:
> on pd-vanilla wish application error:
> can't find package pddp
> can't find package pddp
> while executing
> "package require pddp"
> ("after" script)
> 
> and in pd console:
> 
> error: cursor: no method for 'runmode_connect'
> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
> error: cursor: no method for 'runmode_disconnect
> 
> on pd-extended I can run the help file without errors but the messages 
> doesn't change the cursor shape anymore, and the "poll mouse pointer" 
> doesn't stop.
> 
> 
> 
I've just watched the source, and that 'motion' is in TODO...
here is a fix:
 if(f > 0)
 {
 sys_vgui("bind all  {+pd [concat %s motion %%x %%y 
\\;]}\n",
 x->receive_symbol->s_name);
 }
 else
 {
 sys_vgui("bind all  break\n");
 }






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Re: [PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?

[Patrice Colet]

Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
> 
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Patrice Colet wrote:
> 
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>> Tcl is whacky, but Tk is quite flexible and well developed for making 
>>> GUIs. Check out tomorrow's auto-build if you want to make your mouse 
>>> cursor turn into gumby :)  It's in hcs/cursor-help.pd
>>> .hc
>>
>> Hi, I had a look lately into your externals, and tried [cursor], it 
>> seems that the canvas takes the mouse binding, then when the cursor is 
>> dragged outside the message box, the selected cursor disappears and 
>> takes place to the usual arrow. I've no idea how to resolve this 
>> unfortunately, it happens on win32.
> 
> I fixed this, it's in today's autobuild, except there is a problem with 
> the windows builds :(

I've just recompiled from todays cvs update, the cursor-help.pd gives me 
several errors:
on pd-vanilla wish application error:
can't find package pddp
can't find package pddp
 while executing
"package require pddp"
 ("after" script)

and in pd console:

error: cursor: no method for 'runmode_connect'
... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
error: cursor: no method for 'runmode_disconnect

on pd-extended I can run the help file without errors but the messages 
doesn't change the cursor shape anymore, and the "poll mouse pointer" 
doesn't stop.



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Re: [PD] [declare] trouble

[Steffen Juul]

On 07/11/2007, at 22.41, Roman Haefeli wrote:

> did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag
> '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from
> extra to pd's searchpathes?

I (of cause) can awnser that question, but say that i can't make work.

This is what i did for testing:

Made a folder in extra called test. In that i made an abstraction  
called testing.pd which was just a wrapper around a [print].

Then i made a new test patch which as:
[declare -stdpath extra/test]
[testing]

Saved that. An loaded it again. But [testing] couldn't create. That  
is surpricing since it's what the help file promise.

But the odd things don't end here. I think. Check this out:

$ pwd
/Applications/Pd-0.40-2.app/Contents/Resources/extra
$ ls -l | cut -c 1-10,47-89
total 192
-rw-r--r-- README.txt
drwxr-xr-x bonk~
drwxr-xr-x choice
-rw-r--r-- complex-mod~-help.pd
-rw-r--r-- complex-mod~.pd
-rw-r--r-- expr-help.pd
lrwxr-xr-x expr.d_fat -> expr~/expr.d_fat
drwxr-xr-x expr~
lrwxr-xr-x expr~.d_fat -> expr~/expr~.d_fat
lrwxr-xr-x fexpr~.d_fat -> expr~/fexpr~.d_fat
drwxr-xr-x fiddle~
-rw-r--r-- hilbert~-help.pd
-rw-r--r-- hilbert~.pd
drwxr-xr-x loop~
drwxr-xr-x lrshift~
-rw-r--r-- makefile
drwxr-xr-x pique
-rw-r--r-- rev1-final.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev1-stage.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev1~-help.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev1~.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev2~-help.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev2~.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev3~-help.pd
-rw-r--r-- rev3~.pd
drwxr-xr-x sigmund~
drwxr-xr-x test
i$

Then consider that my preference .plist is empty. Ie. it doesn't add  
the folder fiddle~ to the search path. The odd thing is then, that  
the [fiddle~] object creates just fine anyways.



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