[PD] [PD-announce] Apéro PURE DATA - 16 dé c 07 - Nantes
Hello, Crealab organizes a meeting around Puredata Sunday 16 December, from PM 5:00 thru PM 8:00 An updated programme will be posted on this page soon: http://crealab.info/zone/drupal/?q=node/30 amongst other topics: the setting up of French Pdpedia. Crealab organise un Apéro Pure Data le Dimanche 16 décembre de 17h à 20h au Bistrot du Chantier 6 quai françois Mitterrand, sur l'île de Nantes, à Nantes Un programme plus garni devrait être posté à cette adresse: http://crealab.info/zone/drupal/?q=node/30. Entre autres sujet devrait être abordé la mise en place du Pdpedia Francophone. OH signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (linux) libraries loading problem
hi. yvan volochine wrote: Hi all. I'm new to pd (and linux) and this is my 1st post here so forgive me if this is a dumb question. I just installed pd-0.39.3-extended on ubuntustudio (v7.04, updated). Everything went fine except none of my libraries loads on startup. I also installed the following packages: build-essential / tcl8.4-dev / cdbs / tk8.4-dev / libasound2-dev / debhelper / libjack0.100.0-dev / x-windows... I triple checked the doc, my default.pdsettings, my path and startup in pd... I always get the same error: tried... and failed. Can't load library. I must be missing something really obvious here but I'm stuck... Thanx for your help. this tells us 2 things: 1: you have installed Pd fine and it runs (all the necessary libraries are installed (as you have demonstrated with your list of packages); there are no dependency problems on the pd side 2: you fail to load a pd-library (aka external; in other applications this might be called plugin), either because this external/library is not installed or because it is missing a dependency (externals can depend on other stuff; e.g. Gem will depend (among other things) on openGL, whereas Pd itself does not) Pd's externals/libraries are files called libname.pd_linux (on linux; on other OS's the suffix will be different); these files are searched by Pd in several paths, which you can specify with the -path option when running from the cmdline, or via the path... dialog. by default, Pd searches the path path/to/pd/extra for a library. so the information we need to help you more is, which library you are actually trying to load: Pd will display something like tried /home/zmoelnig/oops.l_i386 and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/oops.pat and failed oops ... couldn't create rather than tried... and failed. Can't load library. (note that in my version it tells us that it is trying to load oops instead of ...) a simple reasone for the error is, that you are just creating a non-existing object (e.g. [oops]), which Pd cannot resolv, therefore it is trying to load an external that provides [oops] but fails. mfgs.dr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: I suppose my comment was leakage of some of my thoughts about my own musical production and how ultimately burned-out I've become from over-intellectualized sound design. My main concern is that when people get so far into mathematizing music there is an emotional connection that is severed and everything sounds like it was made by Vulcans. It's not about getting far, it's about getting lost. You can get as far as you want, as long as you keep a string that connects you back outside of the maze, just like Ariadne. I haven't heard Vulcan music before so I can't comment on that. Are you suggesting that Vulcans don't have emotions? Nothing against brainy music, but it just seems that there's sometimes too much head and not enough heart in the computer music scene. Perhaps it's just not enough right ventricle. In that case, it can be because of failure of the tricuspid valve to close properly, which causes an abnormal and inefficient blood flow. Seriously now, I believe that it's not about head vs heart competing for resources, it's more of a matter of effective collaboration between the head and the heart. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] (linux) libraries loading problem
Hi all. I'm new to pd (and linux) and this is my 1st post here so forgive me if this is a dumb question. I just installed pd-0.39.3-extended on ubuntustudio (v7.04, updated). Everything went fine except none of my libraries loads on startup. I also installed the following packages: build-essential / tcl8.4-dev / cdbs / tk8.4-dev / libasound2-dev / debhelper / libjack0.100.0-dev / x-windows... I triple checked the doc, my default.pdsettings, my path and startup in pd... I always get the same error: tried... and failed. Can't load library. I must be missing something really obvious here but I'm stuck... Thanx for your help. _y ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Chris McCormick wrote: So you're saying that if someone makes good art and they are ignorant, then we should take their lead and try to be more ignorant? Exactly. The more you use your mind, the more you single yourself out. Because everybody always needs more friends and more approval, they should all make the most ordinary and uncontroversial music possible. (yes, this is sarcasm) For me it doesn't follow that if most musicians don't understand mathematics and their music is still good, then we should all aspire to not understand mathematics. I think that people first believe that we should all aspire to not understand mathematics, and then they structure the rest of their lives accordingly... if you ever see if X then we should all aspire to not understand mathematics then this most likely is an after-the-fact justification, a decision in search of reasons. You can get lost in the mathematics and never be able to communicate with an audience of anyone but geeks (self included). Yes, I think that's true. The big problem with conceptual music, is that it gets lost in how the concepts connect back to the actual music. The first principle of making music is that it should sound good in some way according to some people. This is the ultimate measure of all music. If you make music that is not validated by listening, it's not music. There has to be the feedback of does it sound good? at all time. For interactive music and other forms of music that use some source of data, it's even harder, as it has to both sound good and seem related to the source of data. If it doesn't seem related, it means that your patch is garbling the data beyond repair and so you may as well pretend that you are not using that source of data. Sometimes in understanding something more fully and on multiple levels, we can deliver an artistic experience that is understood by our audiences, or makes them dance, or moves them, even more easily and fully than if we had less understanding. Yes, but it also requires the will to have a certain audience taking you in a certain way and the consciousness required to connect that will with the understanding. I'm guilty of sometimes writing esoteric algorithmic maths music, but I like to think that on those often horrible sounding explorations I gain a greater understanding into what it takes to really make a booty shake. :) But in the end, you don't need to make a booty shake: it could be satisfying to make something just sound good in any other way; it could also be your goal to make music where the process of making it is the end product, instead of the actual sound: in that case you can bypass a lot of the sounding good part. People are more forgiving about the actual sound, if there is something else to your performance-or-artwork that they can give some attention to. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
Hmm, didn't think of checking on that... I'll give it a try. Thanks for the warning. Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:33:29AM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, i'm using latest pd test version on miller website. depending on my screen(s) resolution the size of pd font change a lot. see : http://nusmuk.free.fr/pd_font/ cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
Ok, try test 08 :) M On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:31:57AM -0800, Miller Puckette wrote: Hmm, didn't think of checking on that... I'll give it a try. Thanks for the warning. Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:33:29AM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, i'm using latest pd test version on miller website. depending on my screen(s) resolution the size of pd font change a lot. see : http://nusmuk.free.fr/pd_font/ cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd performance os OS X
Andrew Brouse wrote: This is statement is factually incorrect as noted elsewhere. I stand corrected. But the problem is not. I'm not a developer, but I'm glad people with time for developer-like stuff have taken an interest in this after so many years. best, d. -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 51: Distorting time ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pdpedia in spanish (castellano)
By default, editing is open to anyone, you don't even have to log in. If spam or whatever becomes a problem, that can be changed on each language wiki independently. As for who decides that, that's up to the people involved in each language. I view each language wiki as it's own self-governing entity, like wikipedia. .hc On Nov 22, 2007, at 1:02 AM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I don't really know about editing content... have you already tried to do it? maybe you need to get admin rights, start by creating an account... maybe hans can shed some light on this? About the list of already edited objects maybe we could keep one, I don't know if there is a way of automating that. Also, do we want to check each others translations? best, Jaime On 11/21/07, raul diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool! It's nice to look at a good spanish documentation for pd. I would like to participate in this documentation, do I need any permision for fill an object class definition in the wiki? Would be good to have a list where look at fillled objects, in order to complete the not filled ones. Regards 2007/11/21, Jaime Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Vircy sorry for the delay, i checked your edits and they look good. I did some of my own, based on the documentation, not the english pdpedia although i did read it. are we looking for something like this? http://wiki.puredata.info/es/line also, i am looking for the vanilla template as it is in the english version, but it doesn't seem to be up yet... is this true or am I missing something... best, J On 11/15/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You go it, Jaime. .hc On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:21 PM, Jaime Oliver wrote: Hi Hans, It is Joliver, thanks, J On 11/15/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vircy, you are now, log out and back in to get admin rights. Jaime, tell me your pdpedia.org/es/ account and I can make you admin as well. .hc On Nov 15, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Vircy Parker wrote: Hallo Hans, only a administrator can to create the MediaWiki:Common.css page...and who is the administrator? :) Thanks 2007/11/14, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ok, the import has begun, should be done in an hour or so: http://wiki.puredata.info/es/boids2d The next step is to make the Infobox template: http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Wiki_administrator_how-to * Create a page named MediaWiki:Common.css and copy the content from http://wiki.puredata.info/en/MediaWiki:Common.css into it. * Create a page named Template:Infobox_Objectclass and copy the content from http://wiki.puredata.info/en/ Template:Infobox_Objectclass into it. * Translate the fields from Template:Infobox_Objectclass into your language. The fieldnames are also important for the objectclass pages, there is a possibilty to script the page creation. .hc On Nov 14, 2007, at 3:38 AM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I think it's good, thanks for the work, let me know when i can be of any help. J On 11/12/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll run this import today if there are no objections. .hc On Nov 7, 2007, at 6:20 PM, Vircy Parker wrote: Looks good to me, so we're not putting some english terms like 'inlet' besides 'entrada'? I'm only adjusting the plural in: my $distributions = distribuciones; I would submit to consideration another change, but it may just be a detail: my $releaseDate = fecha de lanzamiento de la versión; I think the original 'fecha de la versión' is perfectly understandable. best, Jaime Thanks! Jaime From my point of view, With entradas and salidas we translate too the conceptual environment entrada--- objeto-- salida of course, inlets/outlets is the slang of pd. A third opinion? # wikipedia terms my $stub = esbozo; my $template = plantilla; my $category = categoría; my $infobox = infobox; my $topLevel = toplevel; # pdpedia terms my $objectclass = Clase de objeto; # page headers my $inlets = entradas; my $outlets = salidas; my $arguments = argumentos; my $messages = mensajes; # infobox my $name = nombre; my $description = descripción; my $abbreviation = abreviación; my $library = librería; my $author = autor; my $developer = desarrollador; my $releaseVersion = versión; my $releaseDate = fecha de la versión; my $dependencies = dependencias; my $license = licencia; my $website = sitio web; my $programmingLanguage = lenguaje de programación; my $platform = plataforma; my $operatingSystem = sistema operativo; my $language = idioma; my $dataType = tipo de dato; my $distributions = distribuciones; my $status = estado; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd filter with pole and zero
hello, i know there is a lot's of filter externals available for pd, but i'd like to use some using rpole~ / cpole~ etc. my main motiviations are : 1) i don't like using externals 2) this object allow an audio control of the cutoff frequency as there is not a lot's of exemples, i'd like to know if anyone used this objects to make good filter abstraction. or anyone have references in order to disign filter? (i'm looking for a low pass resonant filter by exemple) thanks Cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
Hm, those will take longer to figure out (because all the IEM horrorshow will be affected too). cheers Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:04:25PM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, test 08 is better, but not perfect : - the font of the objects are the same whatever the screen size - ok - the font size of text in the main pd window is still change - the font size of the comment (canvas label) that i use in the _gemwin gop abstraction are also changing. should i upload new snapshot? thanks, Cyrille Miller Puckette a ?crit : Ok, try test 08 :) M On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:31:57AM -0800, Miller Puckette wrote: Hmm, didn't think of checking on that... I'll give it a try. Thanks for the warning. Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:33:29AM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, i'm using latest pd test version on miller website. depending on my screen(s) resolution the size of pd font change a lot. see : http://nusmuk.free.fr/pd_font/ cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Charles Henry wrote:
First off, we need a loose definition of timbre--timbre is the quality
by which two sounds may be distinguished, where pitch, loudness, and
onset time are the same. (in terms of signals, we have just described
a non-linear space in the first place { s(t) such that |s(t)|^2 = E
}... but we're not just talking about signals, we mean the sound
experience itself)
I think that you are right that it can't be all done within a linear
framework: there needs some slight mangling of a linear space to do the
work.
Oh, well, you could do most of the work using a linear space, and then at
the last possible moment, divide the space by products by a positive real,
so that there is one element per possible direction (or by any real, so
that there is one element per possible axis). This could be called R[x]/R+
or R[x]/R respectively. Also, this could be called spherical space and
projective spherical space, respectively.
You could also suppose that the fundamental's amplitude is always 1, which
is another way to give you exactly one element for all possible loudnesses
of a sound that is otherwise the same. This is also better because then it
ensures that it's a unique timbre, as you can't set all odd harmonics to 0
in such a situation (this would have allowed you to pretend a 440 Hz sound
is also a 220 Hz sound and such). Also, sometimes affine spaces are easier
to work with than quotient spaces even if you use those quotient spaces as
little as possible.
A neato aspect of R[x]/R+ is that even though vector addition doesn't work
on it, vector multiplication by matrix works quite well, and for example
R^42/R+ can be acted upon by SO(42,R) and most any other matrix group...
although SO(42,R) is the most tightly fitting matrix group in this
case: SO matrices preserve the L2-norm of vectors, so what nicer thing can
there be for a set of pseudo-vectors in which L2-norm has been made
irrelevant?
As such, it cannot be silence. And if silence is not a timbre in our
space, what is the additive identity? The additive identity of x(t)
most closely resembles x(t) itself, since loudness is irrelevant.
If you are using the affine space, you can't simply add and you can't
simply multiply by a scalar: instead, the fundamental operation is the
convex sum of vectors: as a single operation, you add together any
number of vectors, weighted, where the total weight has to be 1, so that
the amplitude of the fundamental sticks to 1.
OK, so how about linearity? If we take two timbres x(t) and y(t),
then we can construct a timbre z(t,a)=ax(t)+(1-a)y(t) (0=a=1)
which interpolates between x and y.
This is a special case of the convexity requirement.
And let's take a particularly bad example. We'll take x(t) to be a
harmonic series. Then, we'll let y(t) be the same harmonic series,
with a single mis-tuned partial, while keeping pitch constant. Then
z(t) becomes dissonant moving between x(t) and y(t), even though
dissonance was not significant in x(t) or y(t).
I don't quite understand how this works. Can you make a version of this
example with actual figures?
Can we move the central moment of spectral density all the way to
infinity while keeping pitch constant?
What do you mean to infinity ?
Anyway, it depends on how perceptual you are trying to be, supposing
that we don't argue on the meaning of to infinity.
If the space of timbres is bounded, then it cannot be a vector space
(because it fails to be closed under scalar multiplication).
You mean bounded how? bounded in amplitude or in frequency? if it's
bounded in frequencies, it's still linear. but you sound like you mean
it'd be bounded in amplitude, which wouldn't be as much linear, but the
spherical space above would make this issue moot anyway.
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Re: [PD] performance on osX
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Derek Holzer wrote: And PD isn't one of them. PD's GUI has always kept one of it's feet permanently nailed to the floor. The problem is just exaggerated on OSX. Previous discussions, back when I still had time to investigate things like this, pointed to Aqua versions of Tcl/Tk as being a possible offender. I tried getting into recompiling PD against different versions of Tcl/Tk, but found it easier to just use the same computer running Linux for high-performance [PD] situations. Upgrading Tcl/Tk to at least 8.5a6 will make Tk about as quick on OSX as it can be on Linux... maybe a bit more or a bit less. Wouldn't it be great if there was a way to pipe all the time people spend rambling about political correctness, beer, philosophy and theoretical physics on this list into solving basic problems like this? duck! I don't know, perhaps theoretical physics is easier than messing around with Tk's source code ;) let alone the politics of Tcl/Tk (e.g. when will 8.5 be officially released? which modifications of Tk are considered appropriate for merging into the trunk? etc) I had started making cross-platform optimisations in Tk itself, just before Pd Convention 2007, but it's somewhat tricky to speed up some common cases without also slowing down some other common cases. During Pd Convention 2004, the late James Tittle had identified that the most horrible slowdown was due to the least-common-bounding-box algorithm of Tk's redraw. What I implemented is a dirty-tile algorithm (make a reduced map of the screen, mark areas that have to be redrawn). It's not that good: huge speedups are compensated by huge slowdowns in other situations. If I modify much more of Tk, I could get to a point where individual items can really express their usage of space in terms of tiles instead of bounding boxes, so that a diagonal line doesn't take the same number of tiles as the rectangle that the line is a diagonal of. This could accelerate the dirty-tile method so that it becomes clearly superior to the traditional redraw. I believe that it's still easier to modify Tk than to switch to a different toolkit. I'm only talking about cross-platform optimisations, because the OSX-specific problem has been already taken care of during 2006. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd-ext: help files not found
patrick wrote: and finally, not just the help of [coll] is not working with a right-click, all of them! i have the same problem. i filed a bug report a little while ago, which seems to be the thing to do in cases like this. with my limited understanding, i'm thinking it's to do with the helpfiles not (anymore?) living next to what they refer to, but in the 5.reference section. you can open them through the browser--if you know or are willing to find out what library the object you want to know about belongs to. can someone explain why the helpfiles live in (subdirectories in) 5.reference and if there's a way to make pd find them? cheers, robbert -- pd-0.40.3-extended-20071123 mac osx 10.4.10, 15 G4 PB 1.67 GHz, 1 GB ram ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] problem loading pidip
Hello everyone... I am using pd-extended 0.39.3, and whenever i try to load pidip i get the following error: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: libMagick.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory pidip: can't load library I first installed Image Magick from Synaptic manager, and after the first failure, compiled it manually; but still no success... i reinstalled pd-extended everytime after the i.m. installations. Pdp is loading fine, and since i DO have I.M., i've just no idea what is going on. I would appreciate any guidance on this, the best luck! furenku _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd filter with pole and zero
hi cyrille i am glad to hear that someone has similar thoughts. i would love to have some filter abstractions based on pd's built-in elementary filters. however, my understanding is far too limited to create them myself. i once ported and adapted a peakfilter from millers examples into pdmtl abs (are they now part of pd-extended, actually?). it is called [fx.filter.peak.sig~] the sig stands for audio frequency inlet and audio q inlet. especially modulating the q parameter with a signal is fun. to hear it in action (besides a lot of other modulations): http://www.netpd.org/sessions/2007-08-17_nordatlantik.mp3 roman On Fri, 2007-11-23 at 20:54 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, i know there is a lot's of filter externals available for pd, but i'd like to use some using rpole~ / cpole~ etc. my main motiviations are : 1) i don't like using externals 2) this object allow an audio control of the cutoff frequency as there is not a lot's of exemples, i'd like to know if anyone used this objects to make good filter abstraction. or anyone have references in order to disign filter? (i'm looking for a low pass resonant filter by exemple) thanks Cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: there is one element per possible axis). This could be called R[x]/R+ or R[x]/R respectively. Also, this could be called spherical space and projective spherical space, respectively. Everywhere where I said R[x], please replace by R^N, which is assumed to be a vector space. R[x] can be used as a vector space, but it's mainly considered as a ring (R^n extended with a vector*vector product), so it can get confusing sometimes. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd filter with pole and zero
yeah roman, that peak filter is lush. has anyone else noticed that the rpole~ / cpole~ filters use quite a bit of cpu? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd + asterisk?
Fun stuff, three of these. I had been vaguely thing of making some kind of AGI object for Pd. It would be nice to easily tap into Asterisk from Pd. A softphone that uses Jack would be handy too... on that note, I wonder how hard it would be to make a softphone in Pd :) .hc On Nov 23, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Chris wrote: Hey, about a year ago i did some audio-stuff with Pd and asterisk but I can't get it to work anymore. What I did was this: I used a Softphone (Linphone) on my Desktop-machine to connect to asterisk, it's audio was connected to a oss2jack-device. I made a small patch wich put the input out with a 3 second delay and with variable pitch and used it to play some jokes to several people. But this doesn't work anymore, at least not in Ubuntu Gutsy. It's definitely time for a Softphone with native jack-support (or a SIP-extension for pd ;)). Another thing I did about 3 months ago was a small AGI-script for asterisk which sent keypresses from a caller via OSC. I used it as input for some gem-stuff. I thought maybe it's possible to recognize dtmf in Pd, or even emulate a modem or something in it, I'm trying for some hours now to get oss2jack or the jack-libalsamodule to work, but I think I give up. So please anyone program a jack-capable sip-phone or something and let me know if someone's interested in my OSC-agi-script and I'll try to find it. -Chris Hans-Christoph Steiner schrieb: Hey all, I just met the development team of Asterisk at a talk they gave. For those who don't know it, it's free software for building complete phone systems, including voicemail, touch tone menus, voice prompts, voice recogniztion integration, etc. It's very cool software, it allows you to do whatever you want with phones. Anyway, I was thinking that Pd and Asterisk would be a very natural pair, so I am wondering whether anyone has tried using the two together. http://asterisk.org/ .hc - --- [W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity.-John Gilmore ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- David Zicarelli ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd filter with pole and zero
cyrille henry wrote: or anyone have references in order to disign filter? http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques/latest/book-html/node139.html http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/mkfilter/ http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/ Hope these help, Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd performance os OS X
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use JACK almost always on OSX with PD (when I use it on OSX at all), and still the speed is quite poor. I'm fairly positive it has to do with whether Aqua handles the graphical interface or not. All those brushed chrome windows and colorful spinning widgets sure are expensive! This is statement is factually incorrect as noted elsewhere. Some points to consider: 1. Aqua is the name of the visual theme of OS X 10.0 circa 2001. 2. Quartz (Quartz Extreme if you must) is the window rendering engine on OS X and it runs almost entirely on the GPU. The WindowServer process does manage some other chores and runs on the CPU uses only about 1% CPU. 3. Core Audio is extremely efficient and a well-written Core Audio app will take very little CPU especially when idle. 4. Well-written CLI apps run as fast or faster on OS X as on other Un*ces. 5. Extremely sophisticated audio and video applications do run quite well with reasonably low CPU usage on OS X. Maybe my previous top data was too subtle. A quick check reveals that for some reason, just turning audio rendering on soaks up about 20% of the CPU and seems to involve a fair bit of thrashing about in the kernel and memory. I don't know enough about the internals of Pd to add any more insightful comments, but here are some raw figures comparing Pd and iTunes CPU and system usage: Pd idle audio off: 1.6% CPU, 1000 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) idle audio on: 21% CPU, 4400 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) #22 patch open: 29% CPU, 4700 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) #22 patch w GemWin: 34% CPU, 5300 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) #22 patch running: 46% CPU, 5300 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) iTunes idle not playing: 0.0% CPU, 5-20 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) playing:9.3% CPU, 900 SysCalls/sec (Mach + BSD) This could have to do with PortAudio as the glue to CoreAudio, I don't know. Thomas Grill was quite right. What is needed is for those with the time and motivation to use the performance profiling tools (such as Shark, Sampler, BigTop etc.) which come with Apple's free developer tools and dig into Pd to discover what is chewing up CPU cycles. Here are some guides: Performance Guides: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Performance/index.html Performance Tools: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Performance-date.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP3440-TP3436-TP3901 cheers, Andrew ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
hello, test 08 is better, but not perfect : - the font of the objects are the same whatever the screen size - ok - the font size of text in the main pd window is still change - the font size of the comment (canvas label) that i use in the _gemwin gop abstraction are also changing. should i upload new snapshot? thanks, Cyrille Miller Puckette a écrit : Ok, try test 08 :) M On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:31:57AM -0800, Miller Puckette wrote: Hmm, didn't think of checking on that... I'll give it a try. Thanks for the warning. Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:33:29AM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, i'm using latest pd test version on miller website. depending on my screen(s) resolution the size of pd font change a lot. see : http://nusmuk.free.fr/pd_font/ cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDpedia : images
Hi, I think over time more people will use the new look. but there is no official release yet, and the new look may still change (and will even change more with personalizing the look). Of course, a uniform look would be nice to have, but this will not happen anyway and therefore only work in theory... I suggest a weighting (if you have the possibility to chose...) 1) pd-extended look 2) pd-vanilla look 3) your own style look marius. Olivier Heinry wrote: Hi, when we add images to the mediapool, should we make screenshots in the new fashion such as http://wiki.puredata.info/images/3/3c/Gemframebuffer.png or stick to the old-fashioned look we all know? bye, O. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] fft beginner question
Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Martin Peach wrote: Only the kinetic energy can be measured directly. The potential energy can only be calculated. So how do you measure the kinetic energy without calculating? You could measure the displacement of a spring that absorbs the collision. There is no real instrument that can measure the potential energy So, where is the potential energy that allows atoms to fall apart? Apparently it's stored as extra mass in the nucleus. If you snap a uranium235 with a neutron, it becomes a krypton92, a baryum141 and three neutrons. If you account the masses more precisely, which are not the above numbers, you get: So, you can't measure the potential energy except by converting it to kinetic energy... 235.043930 + 1.008665 - 91.926156 - 140.914411 - 3*1.008665 Which is 0.186033... some fraction of a particle. Why is it? It's because that energy weighs something! 0.308915 gram of matter (above numbers were in nuclear units), times the square of the base lightspeed (299792458 metres/second), is about 0.0002776 joule of energy, according to Einstein's most famous equation. This can't be an (ordinary) particle, because nucleons are all around 1 unit each, and electrons are all below 0.001 unit each. You're forgetting the neutrinos which probably have a very small mass. A stationary electron has a mass equivalent to a photon of 5ll thousand electron-volts. A photon of red light is about 1eV. Photons have kinetic energy too, they can move dust about in space and lasers are used in the lab to move atoms. The equation E=mc^2 is equivalent to E=hv where h is (Planck's) constant and v is the photon frequency. Fundamentally, energy is nothing more than a rate of change; the more energy you have the faster you can change things. Is throwing a ball from a cliff different? (apart from differences of scale!). I don't quite know. I know that Special Relativity says kinetic energy increases mass, but I don't know (or don't remember) what it is about gravitational energy. Einstein's equivalence principle implies that gravity slows time and increases mass in the same way as velocity. Martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (linux) libraries loading problem
On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 10:21:49AM +0100, yvan volochine wrote: I figured it out while I was answering you... I was adding a / before libraries name and somehow misread error messages! Now everything works fine. I'd just like to understand this though: I still have strange errors when loading libraries (example with cyclone): tried /home/gusano/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /home/gusano/pd-gusano/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed [...] tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/freeverb/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and succeeded Added to search path: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone Added to help path: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone Added to help path: /usr/local/lib/pd/doc/5.reference/cyclone Loaded libdir cyclone from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone is that normal ? it is normal on pd-extended. mfga.sdr IOhanens ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (linux) libraries loading problem
I figured it out while I was answering you... I was adding a / before libraries name and somehow misread error messages! Now everything works fine. I'd just like to understand this though: I still have strange errors when loading libraries (example with cyclone): tried /home/gusano/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /home/gusano/pd-gusano/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//freeverb/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/freeverb/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /home/gusano/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /home/gusano/pd-gusano/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//cyclone/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//freeverb/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/freeverb/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone/cyclone.pd_linux and failed tried /home/gusano/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /home/gusano/pd-gusano/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//cyclone/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra//freeverb/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/freeverb/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and failed tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone/cyclone-meta.pd and succeeded Added to search path: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone Added to help path: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone Added to help path: /usr/local/lib/pd/doc/5.reference/cyclone Loaded libdir cyclone from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/cyclone is that normal ? Thanx. _y ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
On Nov 23, 2007, at 5:41 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: FYI: in Pd-extended, the IEM guis and the Pd fonts are the same sizes on all platforms. One key part of it is: tk scaling 1, perhaps the resolution changing the font size is related to that. Also, as I've said before, using negative font sizes bypasses the scaling, because then the units are pixels instead of points. tk scaling 1 makes this easier if all you ever want is pixel fonts, but if you want both points and pixels for any reason, then you have to use negative font sizes. pd-vanilla isn't using the tk scaling stuff at all, so it makes IMHO to turn it off, in effect, by forcing it to be 1. .hc As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
Hello, I'd like to add some 0.5 cents experiment... Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Charles Henry wrote: Yes, but there is evidence for the fundamental bass that occurs between pairs of notes, with a strength dependent on those ratios. Complex harmonies could have multiple fundamentals. It's a mystery to me how harmony/rhythm work at a fundamental level. Well, so far, most of the time you see fundamental, there's only one at a time, for each block of music you want to figure out the fundamental of. Symmetric chords has as much tones as it has notes, diminished chords, has four fundamentals, also a minor seven chord might be relative with three major scales, and we have the choice between different chords with the same bunch of notes. eg: A C E G is both Am7, and C6 (C E G A), or FM7 (F A C E G) or G13 (G B D F A C E)... This is what you are explaining later: But different fundamentals can be extracted for any given interval, and those intervals can be a window sliding through time, looking at any dinote (pair of notes), and there can be multiple windows of different sizes that account for different levels of human memory and of musical understanding... (?) I think that we could analyse music using whole networks of fundamentals... Hardness of understanding increases when window size diminishes, like a blues we could play with only one scale with a little understanding, or all scales with applying knowledge of harmony all along the twelve bars structure. and also, a theory of musical understanding should be resistant to detuning, because many forms of detuning are used in music and yet humans can automatically figure out what the fundamental is _intended_ to be (rather than what it is physically). Dominant chords can contain all the notes that aren't into the fundamental chord, so we know by experience that the moment after this dissonant ambiance, the next sound will be different but nearly the one we've heard before,. From fundamental the dominant chord contains the nearest intervals, the fifth and the fourth are mathematicaly the simpliest non-integer intervals, the seventh is the preceding frequency of the fundamental in tempered major scale (when 9b is used it goes more complicated...). The topology bullshit was plainly bullshit. But I was trying to stretch what I know, and try to see a way for song-structure and rhythm to take on more than one dimension. The fundamental appear in harmony once we know an amount of informations determinded by edges expressed with rythm. Following the dominant == fundamental motion explained just before, odd beats would contain fundamentals and even beats would contain dominants. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] performance on osX
vade wrote: Why do you think this? There are plenty of high performance applications that run just dandy on OS X. And PD isn't one of them. PD's GUI has always kept one of it's feet permanently nailed to the floor. The problem is just exaggerated on OSX. Previous discussions, back when I still had time to investigate things like this, pointed to Aqua versions of Tcl/Tk as being a possible offender. I tried getting into recompiling PD against different versions of Tcl/Tk, but found it easier to just use the same computer running Linux for high-performance [PD] situations. Wouldn't it be great if there was a way to pipe all the time people spend rambling about political correctness, beer, philosophy and theoretical physics on this list into solving basic problems like this? duck! d. -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 139: Revaluation (a warm feeling) ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Nov 23, 2007 7:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 17 Nov 2007, Uur Güney wrote: An example of sound producing mechanism is plucked and vibrating string (or vibrating membrane) It is a continuum and so has infinite dimensions. It's not because it's a continuum, that it has infinite dimensions. Real numbers form a continuum, but have only 1 dimension. The set of all possible continuous functions over a given finite interval, forms a continuum that has infinitely (countably) many dimensions. This continuum also happens to include some simple (Fourier-compatible) discontinuities as well. (Including all possible discontinuities is another story.) Physical sounds can be understood to have no discontinuities, as several factors tend to low-pass the sound enough to remove discontinuities. # Ok. I got it. Thanks for clarification. # Once I asked to my Non-linear Dynamics teacher. Isn't the shape of a string a 1D function of its length? Why we are calling it as continuum? And she said that: A simple harmonic oscillator makes a 1D motion (in time). It goes back and forth. You can approximate a string as N connected harmonic oscillator lying along a line. if N goes to infinity we'll have a SHO at every point in space, which makes a 1D motion in time. And this is a field, and hence it is a continuum. # This is in accordance with your definition, an ideal string can have any shape, so its possible shapes form the set of all possible continous functions over its length. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] PDpedia : images
Hi, when we add images to the mediapool, should we make screenshots in the new fashion such as http://wiki.puredata.info/images/3/3c/Gemframebuffer.png or stick to the old-fashioned look we all know? bye, O. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
I feel absolutely certain that I can convince you that timbre is *not* a
vector space, using only the defining properties of a vector space.
Ok, let's do that. How do you prove it?
With another little thought experiment. If I can't convince you, I'll
eat my words (yum)
First off, we need a loose definition of timbre--timbre is the quality
by which two sounds may be distinguished, where pitch, loudness, and
onset time are the same. (in terms of signals, we have just described
a non-linear space in the first place { s(t) such that |s(t)|^2 = E
}... but we're not just talking about signals, we mean the sound
experience itself)
Key properties of a vector space are:
a) associative
b) commutative
c) There exists an additve identity
d) There exists an additive inverse
e) linearity (the space is closed under addition and scalar multiplication)
No prob: we will define x(t) and y(t) as timbres. O(t) is the origin timbre.
Already, we run into a little problem as a vector space. It's clear
we can define an additive inverse of a timbre x(t) as O(t)-x(t). But
what is O(t)? Since O(t) is a point in our space, it must have
loudness and pitch. As such, it cannot be silence.
And if silence is not a timbre in our space, what is the additive
identity? The additive identity of x(t) most closely resembles x(t)
itself, since loudness is irrelevant.
Now if we include an inner product on our vector space, we can create
orthogonal dimensions of timbre, which depends on the location of
O(t). We can have a space which is the orthogonal complement of a
vector x(t). How can we be certain that O(t) is in the center of our
space? If we move O(t), we would also be changing the orthogonal
complement of x(t). (this is not such a bad problem)
OK, so how about linearity? If we take two timbres x(t) and y(t),
then we can construct a timbre z(t,a)=ax(t)+(1-a)y(t) (0=a=1)
which interpolates between x and y.
And let's take a particularly bad example. We'll take x(t) to be a
harmonic series. Then, we'll let y(t) be the same harmonic series,
with a single mis-tuned partial, while keeping pitch constant. Then
z(t) becomes dissonant moving between x(t) and y(t), even though
dissonance was not significant in x(t) or y(t).
Lastly, is our space bounded? Can we find a certain maximum
dissonance/consonance? Can we move the central moment of spectral
density all the way to infinity while keeping pitch constant? If the
space of timbres is bounded, then it cannot be a vector space (because
it fails to be closed under scalar multiplication).
These are just some of the things I have been thinking about when it
comes to timbre. My general view of the auditory system is that it is
a huge mish-mash of non-linearities. Now, the approach of
psychoacoustics has often been to treat those non-linearities one at a
time, as if they don't intersect with each other. That's fine for
proving an effect occurs (in fact it's preferrable to having umpteen
million variables to consider), but when you start putting them all
together from experiments that weren't designed as such, you're bound
to miss the ways the non-linearities interact with each other.
However, getting from A to B, and showing this is true would take an
exquisitely designed experiment, a real work of art :P
That's a detail :-P
Especially as I believe that timbre is a vector space. This is as long as
we agree that timbre is a reduced form of the spectrum of a periodic
sound, and not the more complicated things that happen with attacks, nor
the whole range of an instrument.
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Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Nov 22, 2007 11:55 PM, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Charles Henry wrote: Yes, but there is evidence for the fundamental bass that occurs between pairs of notes, with a strength dependent on those ratios. Complex harmonies could have multiple fundamentals. It's a mystery to me how harmony/rhythm work at a fundamental level. Well, so far, most of the time you see fundamental, there's only one at a time, for each block of music you want to figure out the fundamental of. But different fundamentals can be extracted for any given interval, and those intervals can be a window sliding through time, looking at any dinote (pair of notes), and there can be multiple windows of different sizes that account for different levels of human memory and of musical understanding... (?) I think that we could analyse music using whole networks of fundamentals... Actually what I'm referring to is the dynamical systems perspective on pitch perception that I keep harping on about (work by Julyan Cartwright and colleagues, and articles from Chialvo). It's the only analysis I've seen that gives some kind of outside support for the perception of a fundamental bass. For example, Schenker analysis is a well-developed music analysis technique, but I haven't personally read any support for it, outside of music theory. and also, a theory of musical understanding should be resistant to detuning, because many forms of detuning are used in music and yet humans can automatically figure out what the fundamental is _intended_ to be (rather than what it is physically). The theory (dynamical systems/pitch) is actually good for this too. There is a slight pitch shift when the frequency ratios become slightly detuned, but the overall fundamental produced is reliable under detuning. The topology bullshit was plainly bullshit. But I was trying to stretch what I know, and try to see a way for song-structure and rhythm to take on more than one dimension. There are many discrete or semi-discrete phenomena in construction of music, so using the Reals, an uncountable noncompact continuum, is pretty counterproductive. Instead of trying to use cartesian powers of the Reals in some form, try cartesian products of different algebraic structures that you will not use as (math) vectors. Like using the mod 12 arithmetic, or other groups? Or making loops (using finite groups)? I think I can see how it would be useful. The whole idea was confusing to me in the first place... it still is. I have started working on a patch lately to simulate the trajectory of a particle as it flies across the surface of a torus Are you doing it in terms of a particular embedding with a particular curvature of the space, or do you use a modulo-Euclidean space in the style of PacMan ? PacMan :) I would take two variables to parameterize the surface a1 on [0,1) and a2 on [0,1) and use x=cos(2*pi*a1)*(2+cos(2*pi*a2), y=sin(2*pi*a1)*(2+cos(2*pi*a2), z=sin(2*pi*a2) or using cylindrical coordinates theta=2*pi*a1, r=2+cos(2*pi*a2), z=sin(2*pi*a2) That's just the thing I was getting at. We have music as a function from 1-D into the space of all possible sounds. Assuming the space of sounds is band-limited and compact in time, it is actually a finite dimension (a gigantically huge finite dimension). Not necessarily... if you fit all sounds in one master period, yes, but if you are using a continuum of frequencies, you have a continuum of possible dimensions. The finite dimensions of the FFT (and of other discrete interval transforms) are because there is a master fundamental frequency (that is not zero). My reasoning was that we can create 1-1 functions on a subset of the continuous functions to R^N. If we have a function on a finite interval which is also band-limited, we can map this space onto the coefficients of a finite fourier series. All of the non-integer frequencies on the continuum still exist, but the spectrum can be sampled. When we have a real-valued continuous function on the interval [0,T), we can sample the spectrum on 1/T without losing any information. Just like when we have a complex function (a spectrum) on the interval [-fs/2,fs/2) or any other half-open inteval, we can sample in the time domain on 1/fs seconds, without losing information, as long as we know the interval of the spectrum. But then, there's the psychological space, which has drastically fewer dimensions, and they're not linear. Did you get into algebraic psychology yet? That's the first time I've ever read those words put together. That sounds interesting. I can see that A Functional Theory of Cognition by Norman H. Anderson deals with this topic.. Chuck ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] profiling with Shark WAS Re: performance on osX
On Nov 21, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Thomas Grill wrote: cyrille henry schrieb: could anyone with a macbook pro could test this patch and tell me the CPU used? does anyone know why the macbook is so slow? Hi, you could use Shark (Apple's profiler) to have a look what exactly uses up the cpu. greetings, Thomas Do you have an tips on profiling Pd with Shark? I just noticed that Pd-0.39.3-extended is using 13-14% of my CPU just having it open. I just did a quick naive run of Shark, and this is the most striking thing: 46.7% of the load at idle is in a narrow area, with 33.5% being caused by find_user_regs: 46.7% 46.7% mach_kernel ml_set_interrupts_enabled 0.0%36.5% mach_kernel thread_block_reason 0.0%36.5% mach_kernel thread_block 0.0%33.5% mach_kernelsemaphore_wait_internal 0.0%33.5% mach_kernel semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap_internal 0.0%33.5% mach_kernel semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap 0.0%33.5% mach_kernel find_user_regs 0.0%3.0%mach_kerneluiomove 0.0%3.0%mach_kernel selprocess 0.0%3.0%mach_kernel select 0.0%3.0%mach_kernel unix_syscall 0.0%3.8%mach_kernel thread_invoke 0.0%3.6%mach_kernel thread_run It seems that Max/MSP also can have this problem: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php? t=msggoto=113971rid=0S=5e7272d91a36744f59361372f5753bee You can see that the Tcl/Tk GUI is not the problem at all. It's a separate process (MacOS/Pd-extended vs Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd ), and here it's using 0.0% of the CPU: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:tkwidgets ps auxwww | grep '[P]d' %CPU %MEM VSZRSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND 15.0 -0.7 420424 15364 ?? S 1:40PM 0:30.37 /Applications/ Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd -guiport 5600 0.0 -0.5 372052 10692 ?? S 1:40PM 0:01.58 /Applications/ Pd-extended.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd-extended -psn_0_36438017 As for Tcl/Tk versions, Pd-0.39.3-extended is using something around 8.4.15, while the nightly builds are using basically the newest in CVS from core-8-4-branch. .hc You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Uur Güney wrote: And she said that: A simple harmonic oscillator makes a 1D motion (in time). It goes back and forth. You can approximate a string as N connected harmonic oscillator lying along a line. if N goes to infinity we'll have a SHO at every point in space, which makes a 1D motion in time. And this is a field, and hence it is a continuum. # This is in accordance with your definition, an ideal string can have any shape, so its possible shapes form the set of all possible continous functions over its length. If she means Field as in Corps (fr) or Körper (de), then that's not necessarily a continuum. There are many finite fields, which are fields because they have regular +-*/, but still don't have fractions, because they work modulo-style. Infinite fields that contain all integers (Z) also contain all rationals (Q). Q is a field already. You can extend Q quite a lot without ever getting to a continuum: add various square roots, cube roots, other roots, ... if you add all possible results of root operations, you get to the Algebraic Numbers, which are still not a continuum. You need to also add all limits of sequences before you get to a continuum. Depending on your mathematical religion, the continuum is either non-countable, or non-countability does not exist (i'm of the latter belief nowadays). The idealness of a string depends on whether you base your ideas on classical physics or quantum physics. In the former, each harmonic has a real amplitude, whereas in the latter, you have a energy step proportional to the frequency and the amplitude is integer when expressed in units of the energy step. The latter theory is known to be more accurate, but when your string is not microscopic, you have no chance of noticing the difference, as steps are very small. Still, the total energy of a string can always be expressed as an integer multiple of the energy step of the fundamental frequency of the string. Making an infinite number of integer dimensions may get you to non-countability of possible states (if you believe in it), but it still doesn't get you to a continuum. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tabread4~~
On Nov 23, 2007 10:16 AM, Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel absolutely certain that I can convince you that timbre is *not* a vector space, using only the defining properties of a vector space. Ok, let's do that. How do you prove it? With another little thought experiment. If I can't convince you, I'll eat my words (yum) When I look at that previous post, I realize that the notation/concepts were confusing at the least, and abusive at the worst. It's not an easy topic to work with. A more concrete example: we could take a trumpt and violin, two instruments with distinct timbres. We cannot mix them together as signals to produce a new, unified timbre. You would perceive them as a combination of two timbres, that cannot be condensed into a single instrument, because they are so distant from one another in timbre. However, we could deform one instrument to another. Suppose we had a good phase unwrap function, unwrap(G(f)) Example: z(t,a)=ifft(unwrap(X(f))^a*unwrap(Y(f))^(1-a)) Then, we have a way to deform one spectrum into the other. Anyhow, see what you think... Chuck ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pdpedia in spanish (castellano)
2007/11/23, Jaime Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Are you looking for this?: http://wiki.puredata.info/es/Categor%C3%ADa:vanilla No, I am looking for the place where the info about the author, license etc is filled out, check the differences between the imgs. J Oh I see. You have to create each plantilla:x an example: http://wiki.puredata.info/es/line I created the Plantilla:vanilla autor Click on edit, and look below: Plantillas usadas en esta página: - Plantilla:Clase de objeto-esbozohttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:Clase_de_objeto-esbozoaction=edit - Plantilla:Infobox Clase de objetohttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/Plantilla:Infobox_Clase_de_objeto - Plantilla:vanilla autorhttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/Plantilla:vanilla_autor - Plantilla:vanilla distribucioneshttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:vanilla_distribucionesaction=edit - Plantilla:vanilla estadohttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:vanilla_estadoaction=edit - Plantilla:vanilla fecha de la versiónhttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:vanilla_fecha_de_la_versi%C3%B3naction=edit - Plantilla:vanilla licenciahttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:vanilla_licenciaaction=edit - Plantilla:vanilla sitio webhttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:vanilla_sitio_webaction=edit - Plantilla:vanilla versiónhttp://wiki.puredata.info/es/index.php?title=Plantilla:vanilla_versi%C3%B3naction=edit When you create one, this affect to all vanilla objects. Try creating Plantilla:vanilla licencia (clicking) oggro On 11/22/07, Vircy Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Vircy sorry for the delay, i checked your edits and they look good. I did some of my own, based on the documentation, not the english pdpedia although i did read it. are we looking for something like this? http://wiki.puredata.info/es/line Yes! I think that is the idea. Thanks also, i am looking for the vanilla template as it is in the english version, but it doesn't seem to be up yet... is this true or am I missing something... Are you looking for this?: http://wiki.puredata.info/es/Categor%C3%ADa:vanilla Saludos! best, J On 11/15/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You go it, Jaime. .hc On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:21 PM, Jaime Oliver wrote: Hi Hans, It is Joliver, thanks, J On 11/15/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vircy, you are now, log out and back in to get admin rights. Jaime, tell me your pdpedia.org/es/ account and I can make you admin as well. .hc On Nov 15, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Vircy Parker wrote: Hallo Hans, only a administrator can to create the MediaWiki: Common.css page...and who is the administrator? :) Thanks 2007/11/14, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ok, the import has begun, should be done in an hour or so: http://wiki.puredata.info/es/boids2d The next step is to make the Infobox template: http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Wiki_administrator_how-to * Create a page named MediaWiki:Common.css and copy the content from http://wiki.puredata.info/en/MediaWiki:Common.css into it. * Create a page named Template:Infobox_Objectclass and copy the content from http://wiki.puredata.info/en/ Template:Infobox_Objectclass into it. * Translate the fields from Template:Infobox_Objectclass into your language. The fieldnames are also important for the objectclass pages, there is a possibilty to script the page creation. .hc On Nov 14, 2007, at 3:38 AM, Jaime Oliver wrote: I think it's good, thanks for the work, let me know when i can be of any help. J On 11/12/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll run this import today if there are no objections. .hc On Nov 7, 2007, at 6:20 PM, Vircy Parker wrote: Looks good to me, so we're not putting some english terms like 'inlet' besides 'entrada'? I'm only adjusting the plural in: my $distributions = distribuciones; I would submit to consideration another change, but it may just be a detail: my $releaseDate = fecha de lanzamiento de la versión; I think the original 'fecha de la versión' is perfectly understandable. best, Jaime Thanks! Jaime From my point of view, With entradas and salidas we translate too the conceptual environment entrada--- objeto-- salida of course, inlets/outlets is the slang of pd. A third opinion?
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
FYI: in Pd-extended, the IEM guis and the Pd fonts are the same sizes on all platforms. One key part of it is: tk scaling 1, perhaps the resolution changing the font size is related to that. .hc On Nov 23, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: Hm, those will take longer to figure out (because all the IEM horrorshow will be affected too). cheers Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:04:25PM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, test 08 is better, but not perfect : - the font of the objects are the same whatever the screen size - ok - the font size of text in the main pd window is still change - the font size of the comment (canvas label) that i use in the _gemwin gop abstraction are also changing. should i upload new snapshot? thanks, Cyrille Miller Puckette a ?crit : Ok, try test 08 :) M On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:31:57AM -0800, Miller Puckette wrote: Hmm, didn't think of checking on that... I'll give it a try. Thanks for the warning. Miller On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 12:33:29AM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, i'm using latest pd test version on miller website. depending on my screen(s) resolution the size of pd font change a lot. see : http://nusmuk.free.fr/pd_font/ cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd 0.41.0 test07 font size
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: FYI: in Pd-extended, the IEM guis and the Pd fonts are the same sizes on all platforms. One key part of it is: tk scaling 1, perhaps the resolution changing the font size is related to that. Also, as I've said before, using negative font sizes bypasses the scaling, because then the units are pixels instead of points. tk scaling 1 makes this easier if all you ever want is pixel fonts, but if you want both points and pixels for any reason, then you have to use negative font sizes. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
