Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!

[Andy Farnell]

I only use room temperature superconducting nanotube speaker cables now, gold
is strictly bush league (for listening to mp3s)



On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:22:12 +0800
Max Neupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> damn my new computer with RoHS certified brazing solder sounds so  
> much better.
> 
> prosit,
> max
> 
> Am 08.03.2008 um 09:49 schrieb sven:
> 
> > i have speaker cables made of pure gold.
> > i know what i'm talking about.
> >
> > cheers,
> > sven.
> >
> >
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Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!

[Max Neupert]

damn my new computer with RoHS certified brazing solder sounds so  
much better.


prosit,
max

Am 08.03.2008 um 09:49 schrieb sven:


i have speaker cables made of pure gold.
i know what i'm talking about.

cheers,
sven.


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Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!

[sven]

of course not. at least not here.

At 03:45 08.03.2008, marius schebella wrote:
>nobody will deny that.
>m.
>
>
>sven wrote:
>> i have speaker cables made of pure gold.
>> i know what i'm talking about.
>> 
>> cheers,
>> sven.
>> 
>> 
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>
>
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Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!

[Charles Henry]

Please explain.  Is it the linux modules vs. Windows drivers?  What makes
the difference?

It's good to know why I'm in favor of things

Chuck


On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 7:49 PM, sven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i have speaker cables made of pure gold.
> i know what i'm talking about.
>
> cheers,
> sven.
>
>
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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Andy Farnell]

There is test I use to evaluate one important aspect of
all synthesis systems. It tests oscillator accuracy.

The patch is by Jean Claude Risset and is an additive concept
he called frequency domain grating, and is analogous to diffraction
grating used in spectroscopy.

Here is Hartmanns paper about it
http://www.pa.msu.edu/acoustics/fdg.pdf

You take as many sines as the system will handle, typically
a thousand or so, and sum them. All must start on exactly the
same phase. Now, if we had a series of _all_ frequencies it would
give us an impulse, but instead set the difference between each
oscillator to be 1 cycle + delta, where delta is very small, maybe
1Hz or less.

What you will hear in Csound on a 64 bit system is a ** beautiful **
effect as a "rainbow" of all frequencies apparently plays in sequence.


Now, if the oscillators are very good the spacing will be equal and
the effect will sound crystal clear with individual frequencies popping
in and out in a regular stream.

If the oscillators are innacurate (because of distortion, bit depth,
asymmetry etc) then you will hear a muddled effect. Any deviation from
a perfect sine must introduce other hamonics and these come out in
the sequence, so it's an empirical/practical way of testing the quality
of a digital system without any special test equipment or measuring
other than your ears.

Hardly very scientific, but roughly from the few chances I've had
to try it on different systems...

Csound - the King, all bow before Csound 
Nyquist/CLM - a close second on some machines
Puredata - Not bad, but not good, you can tell something is broken
Max - pretty damn awful
Reaktor - forget it

So I believe there is a difference between Max and Pd and Max is the loser.
But of course all software is in development. And it must be said;

1) this only test oscillator accuracy but may also test fp accuracy (I haven't
thought it through in detail)

2) It depends how you do it. For example, using table oscillators that 
precompute
is different than taking the cosine (maybe Taylor or poly approximated) of
a phasor.


If I had all systems running and time I'd try it again, but I don't. If we could
define the exact parameters for a patch to eliminate variables I think Rissets 
diffraction is a very good test that reveals the quality of digital synthesis
software.







On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:02:00 -0500
marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> what I experience sometimes when I do very basic stuff like using 
> phasors, is that I hear weird comb filtering of my environment after I 
> put down my headphones. similar as if you look into bright light and 
> then close the eyes, and you still see a review-image.
> regarding the difference between pd and max: are you talking about the 
> music that people produce or are you talking about the digital signal 
> process?
> m.
> 
> Damian Stewart wrote:
> > hey,
> > 
> > i was talking to a Portuguese musician tonight (Miguel Cardoso is his name) 
> > and he was saying that he thought that Pd sounded much better than Max - a 
> > fuller sound with the oscillators, he said.
> > 
> > i hadn't really thought about this before, but i do know that to my ears my 
> > Pd patches sound a lot richer than most Max/MSP stuff that I've heard - not 
> > sure whether that's my source material or patches or whether it's at a 
> > deeper architectural level than that.
> > 
> > anyone have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to confirm this? reasons 
> > why this might be the case?
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!

[marius schebella]

nobody will deny that.
m.


sven wrote:
> i have speaker cables made of pure gold.
> i know what i'm talking about.
> 
> cheers,
> sven.
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[marius schebella]

ok, so you are right. my reading capabilities get worse from day to day...
one more question. I read
Pd (c) 1997-2005 The Regents of the University of California?
which means the regents of the UC own the rights on Pd???
marius.



Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:14 PM, marius schebella wrote:
> 
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> On Mar 7, 2008, at 7:33 PM, marius schebella wrote:
 Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> I think it is unlikely that there is a noticeable difference in  
> double-blind testing.  I am sure that people hear differences 
> between  them, but I am guessing that those differences are inside 
> the brain,  rather than outside :).

 yes, that seems obvious to me too, but this discussion is about the 
 small chance, that there might be a difference in some small details 
 that effectively make a difference..

> Also, consider that MSP started from Pd code.

 I thought pd came out later (1997) and was completely rewritten with 
 fundamental differences (esp. when it comes to fft and stuff like 
 that).
>>> Max didn't have MSP until Pd came along, it was all about 
>>> manipulating MIDI.  Check out the copyright splash screen, it says 
>>> "portions based on Pd 1997-2005".
>>
>> no, it says Pd and MSP are based on ideas in Max/FTS, an advanced DSP 
>> platform (C) IRCAM.
> 
> Look at the line above that one.  Max/FTS did have synthesis, but it was 
> on a separate DSP CPU.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max/MSP
> 
> "Max has a number of extensions and incarnations; most notably, a set of 
> audio extensions to the software appeared in 1997, ported from Pure 
> Data. Called MSP (short for either Max Signal Processing or the initials 
> of Miller S. Puckette, the author of both Max and Pd), this "add-on" 
> package for Max allowed for the manipulation of digital audio signals in 
> real-time"
> 
> .hc
> 
>>
>> I learned in school (but that was lng ago in 1997) that miller 
>> wrote max and max/fts at IRCAM in the mid 80s, max already had signal 
>> processing in 1990. then he jumped off, david zicarelli sticked with 
>> the existing code and developed msp and miller rewrote pd from scratch 
>> in 1996/97.
>>
>> I think max/msp took also code from pd, but that was later.
>> marius.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.-David 
> Zicarelli
> 
> 
> 


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[PD] Linux sounds better than Windows!

[sven]

i have speaker cables made of pure gold.
i know what i'm talking about.

cheers,
sven.


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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:14 PM, marius schebella wrote:

> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>> On Mar 7, 2008, at 7:33 PM, marius schebella wrote:
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>
 I think it is unlikely that there is a noticeable difference in   
 double-blind testing.  I am sure that people hear differences  
 between  them, but I am guessing that those differences are  
 inside the brain,  rather than outside :).
>>>
>>> yes, that seems obvious to me too, but this discussion is about  
>>> the small chance, that there might be a difference in some small  
>>> details that effectively make a difference..
>>>
 Also, consider that MSP started from Pd code.
>>>
>>> I thought pd came out later (1997) and was completely rewritten  
>>> with fundamental differences (esp. when it comes to fft and stuff  
>>> like that).
>> Max didn't have MSP until Pd came along, it was all about  
>> manipulating MIDI.  Check out the copyright splash screen, it says  
>> "portions based on Pd 1997-2005".
>
> no, it says Pd and MSP are based on ideas in Max/FTS, an advanced  
> DSP platform (C) IRCAM.

Look at the line above that one.  Max/FTS did have synthesis, but it  
was on a separate DSP CPU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max/MSP

"Max has a number of extensions and incarnations; most notably, a set  
of audio extensions to the software appeared in 1997, ported from  
Pure Data. Called MSP (short for either Max Signal Processing or the  
initials of Miller S. Puckette, the author of both Max and Pd), this  
"add-on" package for Max allowed for the manipulation of digital  
audio signals in real-time"

.hc

>
> I learned in school (but that was lng ago in 1997) that miller  
> wrote max and max/fts at IRCAM in the mid 80s, max already had  
> signal processing in 1990. then he jumped off, david zicarelli  
> sticked with the existing code and developed msp and miller rewrote  
> pd from scratch in 1996/97.
>
> I think max/msp took also code from pd, but that was later.
> marius.



 


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David Zicarelli



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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[marius schebella]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> On Mar 7, 2008, at 7:33 PM, marius schebella wrote:
> 
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>>> I think it is unlikely that there is a noticeable difference in  
>>> double-blind testing.  I am sure that people hear differences 
>>> between  them, but I am guessing that those differences are inside 
>>> the brain,  rather than outside :).
>>
>> yes, that seems obvious to me too, but this discussion is about the 
>> small chance, that there might be a difference in some small details 
>> that effectively make a difference..
>>
>>> Also, consider that MSP started from Pd code.
>>
>> I thought pd came out later (1997) and was completely rewritten with 
>> fundamental differences (esp. when it comes to fft and stuff like that).
> 
> Max didn't have MSP until Pd came along, it was all about manipulating 
> MIDI.  Check out the copyright splash screen, it says "portions based on 
> Pd 1997-2005".

no, it says Pd and MSP are based on ideas in Max/FTS, an advanced DSP 
platform (C) IRCAM.

I learned in school (but that was lng ago in 1997) that miller wrote 
max and max/fts at IRCAM in the mid 80s, max already had signal 
processing in 1990. then he jumped off, david zicarelli sticked with the 
existing code and developed msp and miller rewrote pd from scratch in 
1996/97.

I think max/msp took also code from pd, but that was later.
marius.

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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 7:33 PM, marius schebella wrote:

> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
>> I think it is unlikely that there is a noticeable difference in   
>> double-blind testing.  I am sure that people hear differences  
>> between  them, but I am guessing that those differences are inside  
>> the brain,  rather than outside :).
>
> yes, that seems obvious to me too, but this discussion is about the  
> small chance, that there might be a difference in some small  
> details that effectively make a difference..
>
>> Also, consider that MSP started from Pd code.
>
> I thought pd came out later (1997) and was completely rewritten  
> with fundamental differences (esp. when it comes to fft and stuff  
> like that).

Max didn't have MSP until Pd came along, it was all about  
manipulating MIDI.  Check out the copyright splash screen, it says  
"portions based on Pd 1997-2005".

.hc


 


If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of  
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an  
idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps  
it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into  
the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess  
himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson



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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[marius schebella]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> I think it is unlikely that there is a noticeable difference in  
> double-blind testing.  I am sure that people hear differences between  
> them, but I am guessing that those differences are inside the brain,  
> rather than outside :).

yes, that seems obvious to me too, but this discussion is about the 
small chance, that there might be a difference in some small details 
that effectively make a difference..

> Also, consider that MSP started from Pd code.

I thought pd came out later (1997) and was completely rewritten with 
fundamental differences (esp. when it comes to fft and stuff like that).

marius.

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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 5:23 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

> On Fri, 2008-03-07 at 01:28 +, Damian Stewart wrote:
>> hey,
>>
>> i was talking to a Portuguese musician tonight (Miguel Cardoso is  
>> his name)
>> and he was saying that he thought that Pd sounded much better than  
>> Max - a
>> fuller sound with the oscillators, he said.
>>
>> i hadn't really thought about this before, but i do know that to  
>> my ears my
>> Pd patches sound a lot richer than most Max/MSP stuff that I've  
>> heard - not
>> sure whether that's my source material or patches or whether it's  
>> at a
>> deeper architectural level than that.
>>
>> anyone have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to confirm this?  
>> reasons
>> why this might be the case?
>
>
> hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar the other  
> way
> around.
>
> since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
> different machines or in two different softwares, i think there are  
> only
> very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller' (what  
> does it
> mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the other.  
> for me
> this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
> golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than others (i
> would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).
>
> hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy thinks,  
> that pd
> people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding stuff.
> or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
> [phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test, if  
> there is
> any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase of a
> [phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from the
> other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
> then...  *i shut up*  ;-)
>

I think it is unlikely that there is a noticeable difference in  
double-blind testing.  I am sure that people hear differences between  
them, but I am guessing that those differences are inside the brain,  
rather than outside :).

Also, consider that MSP started from Pd code.

.hc

 


Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- 
David Zicarelli



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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Batuhan Bozkurt]

But the problem becomes appearent when you actually do some signal 
processing with audio data. Max has a flaw about it's floating point 
precision. At first I was thinking the problem was just about 
visualisating data(like, when you monitor a signal value, it is rounded 
and looks wrong but actaul data passing from cables are correct) but 
later I figured that it was not the issue when I tried to use signal 
values as control data, it was all quirky. I haven't been using max for 
a couple of years so I can't find my patches and demonstrate various 
problems but here is what I remember, might be wrong though someone has 
to try it:
[sig~ 800]
|
[%~ 300]

this should give 200 but it was giving something like 199.9998 (I really 
can't remember).

If I were to test this value with [==~ 200]  I was getting zero. So it 
was the calculation itself that was wrong.

There were many problems like this that I experienced and they were 
really appearent when I tried to use these signals as control sources(by 
not leaving the audio domain) because the logical processes were failing 
and I was having to build structures for exceptional rounding errors.

And when you process audio and give those to speakers, you can hear that 
float precision really matters. Max was always sounding dull to me and I 
always blamed float precision.

To my ears and eyes, PD and Supercollider are VERY transparent in this 
sense.

BB

PS: I'm not very aware of the technical issues resulting this decreased 
float precision. So what I believe might be folklore, and I'd be happy 
to be corrected on this issue. Basically what I think that max/msp has 
serious flaws in its floating point handling and this results to BAD 
sound which has that dull msp'ish character.

Libero Mureddu wrote:
> Hi all,
> I remember some months ago I did the suggested test using oscs from:
> Max/MSP,
> Pd,
> PWGL,
> Csound and maybe (not sure anymore),
> SuperCollider.
>
> Well, they produces the same results.
> Anyway it was interesting to experience it!
>
> Here attached is the audacity project file with only max and pd; max
> cycle~ output is shorter so one can hear pd osc~  output starting to
> play only when the other one is finished.
> I reversed the phase using Audacity, to be honest, but I don't think
> this makes the test irregular :-)
> ciao
>
> libero
>
>
>  
>>  Message: 6
>>  Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:57:49 +
>>  From: Damian Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  Subject: Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
>>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  Cc: PD-List 
>>  Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>  Roman Haefeli wrote:
>>
>>  > hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar the 
>> other way
>>  > around.
>>  >
>>  > since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
>>  > different machines or in two different softwares, i think there 
>> are only
>>  > very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller' (what 
>> does it
>>  > mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the other. 
>> for me
>>  > this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
>>  > golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than 
>> others (i
>>  > would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).
>>
>>  well, he also said that it was because the [osc~] had a larger table 
>> size
>>  in Pd than in Max, which would make sense.
>>
>>  my initial assumption was that it was to do bit-depth. i used to 
>> scoff at
>>  people who claimed 24 bit was better; but then i spent some time in a
>>  studio working with 24 bit audio, and, well, you notice. (but both 
>> Pd and
>>  Max are 32 bit float, right?)
>>
>>  i hear you about the speaker cables; there are differences even amongst
>>  digital stuff though. for example when Ableton Live clips, to my 
>> ears it
>>  clips a lot nicer than ProTools does. (actually ProTools in general 
>> sounds
>>  very dead - its precision means that you have to work your ass off 
>> to get
>>  colour into your sound.) and back when i was composing in a multitrack
>>  sequencer environment, i remember choosing to use Cubase SX because its
>>  audio engine just sounded nicer than any of the other apps of the time
>>  (Cakewalk and Logic being the main competitors).
>>
>>  > hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy thinks, 
>> that pd
>>  > people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding 
>> stuff.
>>  > or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
>>  > [phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test, if 
>> there is
>>  > any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase 
>> of a
>>  > [phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from 
>> the
>>  > other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
>>  > then...  *i shut up*  ;-)
>>
>>  nice idea, but i'd try it with an [osc~]. anyone want to volunt

Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[zmoelnig]

Quoting marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> on the hardware side: da converters can make a difference. (is it
> overall true that pd runs on cheaper hardware, using cheaper
> digital-analog converters creating a richer, more distorted sound?).

now that is an interesting observation.

probably Pd runs on cheaper hardware (like arm-based pdas), but then i  
am often using it on the HDSP-MADI card with quite good RME dacs  
(though probably not audiophile)...

anyhow, i am pretty sure that pd and max use the same table-sizes and  
interpolation for osc~ (ask miller to make sure), so there shouldn't  
be any difference (doesn't msp's splash screen say "pure-data for max"  
or something like this?)
so in the end i too believe that the only difference between the 2 in  
a direct comparision would be the audio-hardware, in which case the so  
called "listening test" would be rendered naught.


fgmadsr
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] comment strings in qlist

[zmoelnig]

Quoting Achim Bornhoeft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi,
> What is the right way to comment a qlist file?
> I tried to use #  ;  but it doesn't work.
>

it's a good approach.

to be plain honest: there are no comments in qlist/textfile but you  
can easily do them yourself:

just use a dummy receiver [r #] (or in case of textfile [route #]) to  
get rid of the "comments" (rather: unused lines) without any warnings.

(and be sure to add a space after the hash)

dgamsdrl,
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] GEM manual : 404 Not Found

[zmoelnig]

Quoting altern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> IOhannes m zmölnig(e)k dio:
>> altern wrote:
>>> hi
>>>
>>> the GEM manual link at puredata.org and gem.iem.org does not work
>>
>> i don't see a link at puredata.org (and i was interested to see
>> http://gem.iem.org, nice site)
>
> it is here under "GEM manual", the fifth link.
> http://puredata.info/docs

thanks i fixed it now.

the problem is, that i get every now and then a very unspecific dead  
link report (like "hey, on your site google.com, the  
http://localhost/deadlink does not exit any more")

>
> http://gem.iem.at this points into a subsection of puredata.info I
> thought first they were two different Plone websites, so i was pretty
> confused because of this, did not now where i was.

yes, gem.iem.at is a sub-site of puredata.info; this shouldn't be much  
of a constraint though


fmgasdr
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] pd-extended application osx

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

A better solution would be to add a search function to the help menu,  
or port Matju's class browser to Pd.

.hc

On Mar 7, 2008, at 4:07 PM, marius schebella wrote:

> hi (hans),
> would it be possible to have an enclosing folder for the pd app and  
> take
> all externals, help files, tutorials and manuals inside that  
> folder, but
> not in the pd-application itself. in that case osx finder would be  
> able
> to search for stuff without first selecting the app manually and click
> show contents before I can search for something.
> I am still struggling with the problem, that every time I am  
> missing an
> object I have to figure out in which folder it is (in which  
> library), to
> be able to rename it...
> marius.
>
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Re: [PD] Wii remote controller and Mac OS X

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

This is a port of aka.wiiremote, yup.  The Max and Pd APIs are so  
similar, you usually don't need flext to make it work for both.


The problem here is that Max/MSP is a Carbon app and the pd process  
is not (Tcl/Tk Wish.app is).  The IOBluetooth framework is designed  
to be used in a Carbon app, so I have to hack around in unusual ways  
to make this work.  flext wouldn't help with that, unfortunately, AFAIK.


.hc

On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello .hc,

> Ok, I got the wiiremote connecting to Pd and I can get one
> data
> reading, so I am getting close.  Hopefully I'll have this
> working by
> the end of the day.

wow, that would be great! thanks!

and thanks to all the people who promptly answered suggesting some  
viable way to make the Wii Remote communicate with pd.


as far as I understand it's a port of aka.wiiremote, right?
do you think that a cross-platform (Max/pd) version, at least  
forMacOSX, could be made by using flext? however I know there are  
issuesconcerning Bluetooth implementations on different OSes.


Ciao!
Stefano

>
> .hc
>
> On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Stefano Papetti wrote:
>
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > when I last checked the mailing list (about 1 year ago...) I
> remember> there was a wiiremote external by Hans-Christoph
> Steiner. However at
> > that time I couldn't get it to work.
> > Currently, the latest revision from sourceforge
> > (http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/
> > externals/io/wiiremote/)
> > seems to be broken (I got it from the logs).
> > I'm looking for an external allowing to interface a Wii remote
> > controller with pd under Mac OS X (Intel). Is there any
> reliable
> > way to
> > do that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stefano
> >
> >
> > ___
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> http://lists.puredata.info/
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>
>
>
> -
> ---
> 
>
> I spent 33 years and four months in active military service
> and
> during that period I spent most of my time as a high class
> muscle man
> for Big Business, for Wall Street and the
> bankers.  - General
> Smedley Butler
>
>




 



Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is  
related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra



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[PD] partconv~ and pvoc~ now part of Pd-extended (added fftw3)

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Now that FFTW3 is included on all of the build machines, I enabled  
the building of partconv~ and pvoc~ in bsaylor.  Try it out and let  
me know how it works.

It should show up in the nightly builds starting tomorrow.

.hc

 


I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and  
during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man  
for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers.  - General  
Smedley Butler



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Re: [PD] pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Oops, sorry, my brain was turned off... auto-pilot went astray...  I  
just added bsaylor/pvoc~.c to Pd-extended, it should be in the  
nightly builds starting tomorrow.

.hc

On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:40 PM, robcanning wrote:

>
> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> cd pure-data/trunk/externals
>> make vbap
> hi hc,
>
> make vbap to build pvoc~? really?
>>
>> Or its included in Pd-extended.
> i'm on debian Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227 and the  
> pvoc~.pd_linux isn't here
>
> i have a C file in:
>
> /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/bsaylor/pvoc~.c
>
> and also
>
> /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/fftease/pvoc~.c
>
> maybe i am missing something?
>
> thanks
>
> rob c
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2008, at 6:57 AM, robcanning wrote:
>>
>>> hi,
>>> can anyone tell me how i get pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c
>>> i cant find a makefile and dont know how to write one
>>> i'm on debian testing and Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227
>>> thanks
>>> rob c
>>>
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>>
>>
>> - 
>> ---
>>
>> I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have  
>> three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for  
>> their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their  
>> spirits.  - Martin Luther King, Jr.
>>
>>
>>
>>



 


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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Libero Mureddu]

Hi,  my test was in fact a semi-serious one... even if some time ago I
 did it seriously!

 My little experience: I've been thinking in the past that max sounded
 more "detailed" somehow (I used to like a lot the "scope" object, back
 then), but I'm not a good judge:  it also happened to me to carefully
 modify a plugin reverb tale length, being satisfied, and then realize
 that it was bypassed, but it sounded different, I swear :-)

 ciao
 libero



 On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 9:59 PM, marius schebella
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 > hmm, sine waves are one kind of sound, but musical pieces use more than
 >  sinewave generators. if there are really technical and software related
 >  dsp differences in max and pd then you would find them more in other
 >  objects. the wavetable readers could be different (type of
 >  interpolation...) the oversampling techniques could be different, noise
 >  generators could be different, internal float precision could make a big
 >  difference.
 >  on the hardware side: da converters can make a difference. (is it
 >  overall true that pd runs on cheaper hardware, using cheaper
 >  digital-analog converters creating a richer, more distorted sound?).
 >  max could use additional filter magic that we don't know of (no source
 >  code available...).
 >  marius.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >  Libero Mureddu wrote:
 >  > Hi all,
 >  > I remember some months ago I did the suggested test using oscs from:
 >  > Max/MSP,
 >  > Pd,
 >  > PWGL,
 >  > Csound and maybe (not sure anymore),
 >  > SuperCollider.
 >  >
 >  > Well, they produces the same results.
 >  > Anyway it was interesting to experience it!
 >  >
 >  > Here attached is the audacity project file with only max and pd; max
 >  > cycle~ output is shorter so one can hear pd osc~  output starting to
 >  > play only when the other one is finished.
 >  > I reversed the phase using Audacity, to be honest, but I don't think
 >  > this makes the test irregular :-)
 >  > ciao
 >  >
 >  > libero
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >>  Message: 6
 >  >>  Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:57:49 +
 >  >>  From: Damian Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 >  >>  Subject: Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
 >  >>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >  >>  Cc: PD-List 
 >  >>  Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 >  >>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 >  >>
 >  >>  Roman Haefeli wrote:
 >  >>
 >  >>  > hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar
the other way
 >  >>  > around.
 >  >>  >
 >  >>  > since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
 >  >>  > different machines or in two different softwares, i think
there are only
 >  >>  > very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller'
(what does it
 >  >>  > mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the
other. for me
 >  >>  > this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
 >  >>  > golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than others (i
 >  >>  > would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).
 >  >>
 >  >>  well, he also said that it was because the [osc~] had a larger
table size
 >  >>  in Pd than in Max, which would make sense.
 >  >>
 >  >>  my initial assumption was that it was to do bit-depth. i used
to scoff at
 >  >>  people who claimed 24 bit was better; but then i spent some time in a
 >  >>  studio working with 24 bit audio, and, well, you notice. (but
both Pd and
 >  >>  Max are 32 bit float, right?)
 >  >>
 >  >>  i hear you about the speaker cables; there are differences even amongst
 >  >>  digital stuff though. for example when Ableton Live clips, to my ears it
 >  >>  clips a lot nicer than ProTools does. (actually ProTools in
general sounds
 >  >>  very dead - its precision means that you have to work your ass
off to get
 >  >>  colour into your sound.) and back when i was composing in a multitrack
 >  >>  sequencer environment, i remember choosing to use Cubase SX because its
 >  >>  audio engine just sounded nicer than any of the other apps of the time
 >  >>  (Cakewalk and Logic being the main competitors).
 >  >>
 >  >>  > hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy
thinks, that pd
 >  >>  > people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding stuff.
 >  >>  > or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
 >  >>  > [phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test,
if there is
 >  >>  > any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase of a
 >  >>  > [phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from the
 >  >>  > other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
 >  >>  > then...  *i shut up*  ;-)
 >  >>
 >  >>  nice idea, but i'd try it with an [osc~]. anyone want to volunteer?
 >  >>
 >  >>  --
 >  >>  damian stewart | +351 967 797 263 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 >  >>  frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > --

[PD] Fwd: [OT] For Hans, question on Arduino

[Mike McGonagle]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Mike McGonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] For Hans, question on Arduino
To: Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Hello all,
After looking more at this stuff, and the links that Marius gave, I posted
to their forum. (
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1204860704) Here is
the link to that thread...

I will share this link, though, as I think many people here might be
interested... ( http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/ ) REALLY COOL STUFF!!!


Mike


On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> I think the Arduino forums would be a good place to ask about the
> possibilities of sensors, etc.  I am not quite sure what you are looking
> for.  Perhaps you can elaborate?
>
> .hc
>
> On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:20 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
>
> You're referring to a midi controller, perhaps?
> It's pretty easy to code serial interfaces with other IC's using the
> arduino, and midi data is also sent using serial.  So, it seems feasible.
> What sort of hardware do you want to interface, and what functions should it
> perform?
>
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Mike McGonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Hans,
> > I am sending this to the list as others might be interested.
> >
> > I am curious about where to start in designing and building a
> > controller. I have an idea for what I would like to do, but there doesn't
> > seem to be any similar boards on the Arduino cite.
> >
> > Could you recommend a mailing list or some other group that might
> > provide some info for a "newbie"?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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>
>
>
> 
>
> Access to computers should be unlimited and total.  - the hacker ethic
>
>
>


-- 
Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we
have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal.
—Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician



-- 
Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we
have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal.
—Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician
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[PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Harald me. Viuff]

bip all

I ben using vbap for manny yers in the ambiunix system, its a multi  
speaker setup for live performances and R/D, the first yers it was  
based on max/msp but when there came a hardcore c programmer in to  
the project we ported the all to carma/linux and the last weeks to  
stable debian/linux, sorry maxers, just better sound, on hdsp  
hardware, one mistake i remember vas to  make the panner go from 360  
to 1 -continue the cirkel, is that the problem?

going to put more info on ambiunix.dk, for nu only old stuf on http:// 
ambiunix.komponent.dk alle software is free, just mail me.

bw
ha

On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:20 AM, robcanning wrote:


> Derek Holzer wrote:
>
>> On another note, something I've never liked about vbap is this "hole
>> in the middle" problem. Pan a sound from left to right through the
>> middle of your "room", rather than around the edge of the circle.
>> Hear
>> how everything jumps from left to right when you cross the zero point
>> at the middle? That's the part I hate. I guess it's the inherent
>> problem with cartesian vs polar coordinate systems.
>>
>> best,
>> d.
>>
>>
> i wonder are there any ports of any of these objects around
> http://www.maxobjects.com/?request=surround
>
> vbapan~ seems to allow either cartesian or polar coordinate systems
>
>

They are listed there as pd extenrals also, try it out.  If there is
source, it's usually pretty easy to port Max externals to Pd.  There
are some ambi ones there too.

http://www.maxobjects.com/?
v=libraries&id_library=116&requested=surround&operateur=&id_plateforme=

There are also ambisonic externals from IEM and Jasch, for better
spatialization.

.hc


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[PD] pd-extended application osx

[marius schebella]

hi (hans),
would it be possible to have an enclosing folder for the pd app and take 
all externals, help files, tutorials and manuals inside that folder, but 
not in the pd-application itself. in that case osx finder would be able 
to search for stuff without first selecting the app manually and click 
show contents before I can search for something.
I am still struggling with the problem, that every time I am missing an 
object I have to figure out in which folder it is (in which library), to 
be able to rename it...
marius.

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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[marius schebella]

hmm, sine waves are one kind of sound, but musical pieces use more than 
sinewave generators. if there are really technical and software related 
dsp differences in max and pd then you would find them more in other 
objects. the wavetable readers could be different (type of 
interpolation...) the oversampling techniques could be different, noise 
generators could be different, internal float precision could make a big 
difference.
on the hardware side: da converters can make a difference. (is it 
overall true that pd runs on cheaper hardware, using cheaper 
digital-analog converters creating a richer, more distorted sound?).
max could use additional filter magic that we don't know of (no source 
code available...).
marius.


Libero Mureddu wrote:
> Hi all,
> I remember some months ago I did the suggested test using oscs from:
> Max/MSP,
> Pd,
> PWGL,
> Csound and maybe (not sure anymore),
> SuperCollider.
> 
> Well, they produces the same results.
> Anyway it was interesting to experience it!
> 
> Here attached is the audacity project file with only max and pd; max
> cycle~ output is shorter so one can hear pd osc~  output starting to
> play only when the other one is finished.
> I reversed the phase using Audacity, to be honest, but I don't think
> this makes the test irregular :-)
> ciao
> 
> libero
> 
> 
>>  Message: 6
>>  Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:57:49 +
>>  From: Damian Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  Subject: Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
>>  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  Cc: PD-List 
>>  Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>  Roman Haefeli wrote:
>>
>>  > hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar the other way
>>  > around.
>>  >
>>  > since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
>>  > different machines or in two different softwares, i think there are only
>>  > very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller' (what does it
>>  > mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the other. for me
>>  > this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
>>  > golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than others (i
>>  > would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).
>>
>>  well, he also said that it was because the [osc~] had a larger table size
>>  in Pd than in Max, which would make sense.
>>
>>  my initial assumption was that it was to do bit-depth. i used to scoff at
>>  people who claimed 24 bit was better; but then i spent some time in a
>>  studio working with 24 bit audio, and, well, you notice. (but both Pd and
>>  Max are 32 bit float, right?)
>>
>>  i hear you about the speaker cables; there are differences even amongst
>>  digital stuff though. for example when Ableton Live clips, to my ears it
>>  clips a lot nicer than ProTools does. (actually ProTools in general sounds
>>  very dead - its precision means that you have to work your ass off to get
>>  colour into your sound.) and back when i was composing in a multitrack
>>  sequencer environment, i remember choosing to use Cubase SX because its
>>  audio engine just sounded nicer than any of the other apps of the time
>>  (Cakewalk and Logic being the main competitors).
>>
>>  > hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy thinks, that pd
>>  > people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding stuff.
>>  > or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
>>  > [phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test, if there is
>>  > any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase of a
>>  > [phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from the
>>  > other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
>>  > then...  *i shut up*  ;-)
>>
>>  nice idea, but i'd try it with an [osc~]. anyone want to volunteer?
>>
>>  --
>>  damian stewart | +351 967 797 263 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[PD] comment strings in qlist

[Achim Bornhoeft]

Hi,
What is the right way to comment a qlist file?
I tried to use #  ;  but it doesn't work.

Achim

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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Steffen Juul]

On 07/03/2008, at 20.05, Georg Holzmann wrote:

> Last year I did a workshop on this, you can find the files here:
> http://grh.mur.at/misc/PdSpatialization.tar.gz

Great. Took the liberty of adding it to http://puredata.info/docs/ 
tutorials

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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Georg Holzmann]

Hallo!

>>
>> There are also ambisonic externals from IEM and Jasch, for better 
>> spatialization.

I would not say "better" ;) - it depends ...

> Maybe a Spatialisation with Pure-Data page would be nice - is there 
> something like that out there already? a  web page, academic papers, 
> performance documentation, patches??

Last year I did a workshop on this, you can find the files here:
http://grh.mur.at/misc/PdSpatialization.tar.gz

LG
Georg

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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[Dudley Brooks]

IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
 > Dudley Brooks wrote:
 >
 >> I also found that pix_record not only gets the colors wrong, but seems
 >> to rotate the picture 90 degrees and reverse it as well.  (The
 >> abstract nature of the piece is why that wasn't obvious immediately.)
 >> But how can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that
 >> people haven't noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?
 >> (Not me, I'm afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video
 >> cards label screen directions and RGB colors?
 >
 > in this i would suggest reporting the full version of Gem and where you
 > obtained it from. i couldn't find anything about the version of Gem
 > _you_ are actually using.

Sorry, I was writing long after midnight, after a frustrating day of 
trying to get a good recording in time for a deadline.  It's 0.39-extended.

 > rotating the picture by 90° is _very_ unusual. did you mean 180°?

No, I *thought* it was rotated 90 degrees, because motion towards upper 
right became towards lower right.  There was too much symmetry otherwise 
to tell if this was a rotation or a flip.  When I made a patch today 
explicitly to test it, it did just turn out to be flipped top-to-bottom, 
which certainly makes sense in terms of what different systems do with 
y.  Even my midnight-befuddled brain was didn't really believe that it 
could swap x and y.

-- Dudley
 >
 > fmgadsr
 > IOhannes
 >



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Re: [PD] Wii remote controller and Mac OS X

[stefano . papetti]

Hello .hc,

> Ok, I got the wiiremote connecting to Pd and I can get one 
> data  
> reading, so I am getting close.  Hopefully I'll have this 
> working by  
> the end of the day.

wow, that would be great! thanks!

and thanks to all the people who promptly answered suggesting some viable way 
to make the Wii Remote communicate with pd.

as far as I understand it's a port of aka.wiiremote, right?
do you think that a cross-platform (Max/pd) version, at least forMacOSX, could 
be made by using flext? however I know there are issuesconcerning Bluetooth 
implementations on different OSes.

Ciao!
Stefano

> 
> .hc
> 
> On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Stefano Papetti wrote:
> 
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > when I last checked the mailing list (about 1 year ago...) I 
> remember> there was a wiiremote external by Hans-Christoph 
> Steiner. However at
> > that time I couldn't get it to work.
> > Currently, the latest revision from sourceforge
> > (http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/ 
> > externals/io/wiiremote/)
> > seems to be broken (I got it from the logs).
> > I'm looking for an external allowing to interface a Wii remote
> > controller with pd under Mac OS X (Intel). Is there any 
> reliable  
> > way to
> > do that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stefano
> >
> >
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> 
> 
> -
> --- 
> 
> 
> I spent 33 years and four months in active military service 
> and  
> during that period I spent most of my time as a high class 
> muscle man  
> for Big Business, for Wall Street and the 
> bankers.  - General  
> Smedley Butler
> 
>
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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[robcanning]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:20 AM, robcanning wrote:
>
>> Derek Holzer wrote:
>>> On another note, something I've never liked about vbap is this "hole
>>> in the middle" problem. Pan a sound from left to right through the
>>> middle of your "room", rather than around the edge of the circle. Hear
>>> how everything jumps from left to right when you cross the zero point
>>> at the middle? That's the part I hate. I guess it's the inherent
>>> problem with cartesian vs polar coordinate systems.
>>>
>>> best,
>>> d.
>>>
>> i wonder are there any ports of any of these objects around
>> http://www.maxobjects.com/?request=surround
>>
>> vbapan~ seems to allow either cartesian or polar coordinate systems
>>
>
> They are listed there as pd extenrals also, try it out.  If there is 
> source, it's usually pretty easy to port Max externals to Pd.  There 
> are some ambi ones there too.
>
> http://www.maxobjects.com/?v=libraries&id_library=116&requested=surround&operateur=&id_plateforme=
>  
>
>
> There are also ambisonic externals from IEM and Jasch, for better 
> spatialization.
>

great! i didn't realise this stuff was there ... easy to get lost when 
there are just so many externals!

I'll have a look at this stuff.

Maybe a Spatialisation with Pure-Data page would be nice - is there 
something like that out there already? a  web page, academic papers, 
performance documentation, patches??

many thanks

rob c










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Re: [PD] pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c

[robcanning]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> cd pure-data/trunk/externals
> make vbap
hi hc,

make vbap to build pvoc~? really?
>
> Or its included in Pd-extended.
i'm on debian Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227 and the pvoc~.pd_linux 
isn't here

i have a C file in:

/usr/local/lib/pd/extra/bsaylor/pvoc~.c

and also

/usr/local/lib/pd/extra/fftease/pvoc~.c

maybe i am missing something?

thanks

rob c
>
> .hc
>
> On Mar 7, 2008, at 6:57 AM, robcanning wrote:
>
>> hi,
>> can anyone tell me how i get pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c
>> i cant find a makefile and dont know how to write one
>> i'm on debian testing and Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227
>> thanks
>> rob c
>>
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>
>
>  
>
>
> I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three 
> meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, 
> and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits.  - Martin 
> Luther King, Jr.
>
>
>
>


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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[Dudley Brooks]

Jan Thoben wrote:
> try
> 
> [gemhead]
>|  \
>|   [t b]
>|   |
>|   [snap(
>|  /
> [pix snap 800 600]
>|
> [pix_flip]
>|
> [pix_yuv]
>|
> [pix_record]
> 
> is has been discussed on the list:
> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-05/049939.html
> 
> cheers,
> j

Thanks.  I had searched the list about the color inversion problem, and 
hadn't used the right search terms, I guess, because I didn't find 
anything, including the above.  I had only just noticed the flip problem 
and hadn't yet had time to search for it -- and was writing after 
midnight, when my brain had turned to a pumpkin.

Now I have to search the list to find out why write_sf~ only records one 
second of the sound.

-- Dudley
> 
> 
> 
> Dudley Brooks schrieb:
>> jeremaja niko wrote:
>>
>>  > im using on mac program called "snapz pro x" and it is a screen
>>  > capture program, witch can grab opengl window of gem as movie. this
>>  > process needs a lot of cpu power so u need a powerfull machine. it is
>>  > quite easy to use it.
>>  > hope it helps
>>
>> It did indeed!  Thanks!  It was the only thing that finally let me get 
>> my DVD made -- with just an hour and a half to spare!  The other three 
>> methods (pix_record, pdp_rec~, and pix_write) had the various problems 
>> mentioned in this thread.  Synchronizing the sound with the video was 
>> hard also.  (The nature of the sound made it hard to find clear 
>> landmarks for sliding the sound into alignment, and yet it was still 
>> obvious when watching that they weren't in synch.  But with Snapz they 
>> were in synch to begin with.)
>>
>> I also found that pix_record not only gets the colors wrong, but seems 
>> to rotate the picture 90 degrees and reverse it as well.  (The abstract 
>> nature of the piece is why that wasn't obvious immediately.)  But how 
>> can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that people haven't 
>> noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?  (Not me, I'm 
>> afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video cards label 
>> screen directions and RGB colors?
>>
>> -- Dudley
>>
>>
>>
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[PD] mdeGranular~

[jeremaja niko]

hi list

does anybody know is this thing compiled for PD?

http://ddm.caad.ed.ac.uk/staff/michael/software/index.html

looks very interesting and would be nice to have it in pd

greetings nikola

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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[Dudley Brooks]

chris clepper wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Dudley Brooks 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> 
> But how
> can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that people haven't
> noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?  (Not me, I'm
> afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video cards label
> screen directions and RGB colors?
> 
> 
> This has been fixed in the code for at least 9 months.  
> 

I first downloaded and tried 0.39-extended about a month ago, and that's 
the version I experienced the problems in.  But Jan Thoben's post 
explains the problem and the solution.

-- Dudley

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Re: [PD] [OT] For Hans, question on Arduino

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

I think the Arduino forums would be a good place to ask about the  
possibilities of sensors, etc.  I am not quite sure what you are  
looking for.  Perhaps you can elaborate?


.hc

On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:20 PM, Charles Henry wrote:


You're referring to a midi controller, perhaps?
It's pretty easy to code serial interfaces with other IC's using  
the arduino, and midi data is also sent using serial.  So, it seems  
feasible.  What sort of hardware do you want to interface, and what  
functions should it perform?


Chuck

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Mike McGonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

Hello Hans,

I am sending this to the list as others might be interested.

I am curious about where to start in designing and building a  
controller. I have an idea for what I would like to do, but there  
doesn't seem to be any similar boards on the Arduino cite.


Could you recommend a mailing list or some other group that might  
provide some info for a "newbie"?



Thanks,

Mike


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Re: [PD] Wii remote controller and Mac OS X

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Ok, I got the wiiremote connecting to Pd and I can get one data  
reading, so I am getting close.  Hopefully I'll have this working by  
the end of the day.

.hc

On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Stefano Papetti wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> when I last checked the mailing list (about 1 year ago...) I remember
> there was a wiiremote external by Hans-Christoph Steiner. However at
> that time I couldn't get it to work.
> Currently, the latest revision from sourceforge
> (http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/ 
> externals/io/wiiremote/)
> seems to be broken (I got it from the logs).
> I'm looking for an external allowing to interface a Wii remote
> controller with pd under Mac OS X (Intel). Is there any reliable  
> way to
> do that?
>
> Thanks,
> Stefano
>
>
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during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man  
for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers.  - General  
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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:20 AM, robcanning wrote:

> Derek Holzer wrote:
>> On another note, something I've never liked about vbap is this "hole
>> in the middle" problem. Pan a sound from left to right through the
>> middle of your "room", rather than around the edge of the circle.  
>> Hear
>> how everything jumps from left to right when you cross the zero point
>> at the middle? That's the part I hate. I guess it's the inherent
>> problem with cartesian vs polar coordinate systems.
>>
>> best,
>> d.
>>
> i wonder are there any ports of any of these objects around
> http://www.maxobjects.com/?request=surround
>
> vbapan~ seems to allow either cartesian or polar coordinate systems
>

They are listed there as pd extenrals also, try it out.  If there is  
source, it's usually pretty easy to port Max externals to Pd.  There  
are some ambi ones there too.

http://www.maxobjects.com/? 
v=libraries&id_library=116&requested=surround&operateur=&id_plateforme=

There are also ambisonic externals from IEM and Jasch, for better  
spatialization.

.hc


 


As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be  
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and  
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin



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Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Blender + Pd sounds like a good project.

As for EA releasing their code, since they haven't done it already,  
they are probably unlikely to do it.  But it can't hurt to ask.

.hc

On Mar 7, 2008, at 3:03 AM, Andy Farnell wrote:

>
>
>
> In light of the recent discussion about Blender + Pd is there
> maybe some possibility of a combined cross application proposal?
>
> I don't know much about how this Google SOC works.
>
> Another thought I had;
>
> For sponsorship, what are the chances of EA or other companies that
> are making use of Pd sponsoring a team, or folding back in some
> source changes they've made?
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:25:02 -0500
> Chris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:30:20 +0100
>>> Georg Holzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 We discussed at the LAC that we would like to apply again this  
 year for
 google's summer of code project, which is about to start today
 (http://code.google.com/soc/2008/).
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 01:41:00PM +, Andy Farnell wrote:
>>> I'd be happy to join any team that has a games+audio+Pd proposal
>>> as a mentor.
>>
>> I have added this:
>> 
>>
>> Which is my proposal to make it easier to compile the audio-engine  
>> part
>> of Pd as a library and link it into your own projects. This has been
>> asked about numerous times on the list, almost always to do with  
>> games
>> related projects, and we all know that it's happening already in  
>> Spore.
>>
>> Also, this could really help with some of the other SOC projects like
>> PluggoPd, PdVST, etc. so it's highly re-useable.
>>
>> The only problem here is the confusing name; there is already a PdLib
>> project, which in my opinion should be called 'PdExternals' or  
>> something,
>> but LibPd seems a very appropriate name for a project for using Pd as
>> a library.
>>
>> I guess I'm happy to mentor this but Andy is probably a better  
>> candidate
>> than me if he's interested! Or we could co-mentor - whatevs.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> ---
>> http://mccormick.cx
>
>
> -- 
> Use the source
>
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Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 2:59 AM, Georg Holzmann wrote:

> Hallo!
>
> Hans-Christoph Steiner schrieb:
>> Shall we apply as Pure Data this time?  I am ok to apply as IEM
>
> Yes, I think we should do it as Pure Data, as discussed in Cologne ...
>
>> again, but it just seems that most projects apply as the project   
>> rather than as another institution.  Does anyone want to be the  
>> GSoC  admin on this?
>
> Could you do this ? It needs to be done before March 12.

I can do it.  Last time I think Wini did it.  Is he participating  
this time?  Also, I added a couple project ideas to the list:


PDaExtended: build externals for PDa in the same style as Pd-extended  
so that patches written for Pd-extended will work on PDa.

WiiRemote: create cross-platform wiiremote object following the  
[hidio]? message scheme

WacomIO: create cross-platform Wacom tablet object following the  
[hidio]? message scheme


.hc

>
> Therefore you will need a list of the mentors I think. So far are  
> IOhannes, Andy Farnell, Chris McCormick and you - anyone else ?
>
> I added some more project ideas to http://puredata.info/dev/summer- 
> of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas/ and also some old ones.
>
> LG
> Georg



 


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Re: [PD] pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

cd pure-data/trunk/externals
make vbap

Or its included in Pd-extended.

.hc

On Mar 7, 2008, at 6:57 AM, robcanning wrote:

> hi,
> can anyone tell me how i get pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c
> i cant find a makefile and dont know how to write one
> i'm on debian testing and Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227
> thanks
> rob c
>
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Re: [PD] GEM manual : 404 Not Found

[altern]

IOhannes m zmölnig(e)k dio:
> altern wrote:
>> hi
>>
>> the GEM manual link at puredata.org and gem.iem.org does not work
> 
> i don't see a link at puredata.org (and i was interested to see 
> http://gem.iem.org, nice site)

it is here under "GEM manual", the fifth link.
http://puredata.info/docs

>>
>> http://gem.iem.at/manual/
> 
> thanks, i have added a dummy page that re-directs to the new location.
> 
> btw, it's not so hard to find if you just remove the offending "manual/" 
> to go to http://gem.iem.at/

http://gem.iem.at this points into a subsection of puredata.info I 
thought first they were two different Plone websites, so i was pretty 
confused because of this, did not now where i was.

thanks now i think it is more clear

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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

Dudley Brooks wrote:

> I also found that pix_record not only gets the colors wrong, but seems 
> to rotate the picture 90 degrees and reverse it as well.  (The abstract 
> nature of the piece is why that wasn't obvious immediately.)  But how 
> can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that people haven't 
> noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?  (Not me, I'm 
> afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video cards label 
> screen directions and RGB colors?

in this i would suggest reporting the full version of Gem and where you 
obtained it from. i couldn't find anything about the version of Gem 
_you_ are actually using.

rotating the picture by 90° is _very_ unusual. did you mean 180°?

fmgadsr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] GEM manual : 404 Not Found

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

altern wrote:
> hi
> 
> the GEM manual link at puredata.org and gem.iem.org does not work

i don't see a link at puredata.org (and i was interested to see 
http://gem.iem.org, nice site)

> 
> http://gem.iem.at/manual/

thanks, i have added a dummy page that re-directs to the new location.

btw, it's not so hard to find if you just remove the offending "manual/" 
to go to http://gem.iem.at/

fgmadsr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[robcanning]

Derek Holzer wrote:
> On another note, something I've never liked about vbap is this "hole 
> in the middle" problem. Pan a sound from left to right through the 
> middle of your "room", rather than around the edge of the circle. Hear 
> how everything jumps from left to right when you cross the zero point 
> at the middle? That's the part I hate. I guess it's the inherent 
> problem with cartesian vs polar coordinate systems.
>
> best,
> d.
>
i wonder are there any ports of any of these objects around
http://www.maxobjects.com/?request=surround

vbapan~ seems to allow either cartesian or polar coordinate systems

rob c

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Re: [PD] [OT]TTS

[Reinhard Handl]

wow, that is much more than i had expected, thy a lot.
i'll tell you with what i come up.

cheers, reinhard


Bryan Jurish schrieb:
> moin Reinhard,
>
> I don't really know of any open source German TTS systen (although way
> back when, someone appears to have hacked some German Holmes-elements
> into rsynth -- not sure of the status of that code; best to ask rsynth's
> maintainer (Nick Ing-Simmons) if you want to go that route, which I
> suspect you probably don't), so...
>
> "free-as-in-free-beer" systems, yes: check out HADIFIX and the 'txt2pho'
> program from (I believe) the Universität Bonn, for use with MBROLA (free
> for non-commercial and non-military use).
>
> There's also an add-on module for the free, open-source festival TTS
> system.  The German add-on itself is available under an MBROLA-like
> license from the IMS Stuttgart.  Warning here: I've never actually
> gotten the whole ims-german-festival package to compile under current
> versions of festival: I think the project ran out of money and no one's
> been maintaining that code for several years now -- you may have better
> luck with an older version of festival itself and/or more scheme hacking
> than I was prepared to do ;-)
>
> You might also checkout BOSS (also from Uni Bonn), which I've never
> looked at, but is the successor system to HADIFIX.  BOSS itself is
> supposed to be open source, but the voices and language models are
> (unfortunately) still proprietary, AFAIK.
>
> Please let me know if you manage to dig up anything better!
>
> marmosets,
>   Bryan
>
> Some URLs:
>
> rsynth:
> ftp://svr-ftp.eng.cam.ac.uk/pub/comp.speech/synthesis/rsynth-2.0.tar.gz
>
> festival:
> http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival
>
> HADIFIX/txt2pho:
> http://www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/dt/forsch/phonetik/hadifix/HADIFIXforMBROLA.html
>
> BOSS:
> http://www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/dt/forsch/phonetik/boss/index.html
>
> MBROLA:
> http://tcts.fpms.ac.be/synthesis/mbrola.html
>
> Comparison of TTS Systems for German:
> http://www.8hertz.com/tts/tts.html
>
>
> On 2008-03-06 20:40:00, Reinhard Handl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> appears to have
> written:
>   
>> hello list,
>>
>> sorry for the off-topic, but i dont know where to ask:
>>
>> does anybody know a free or opensource TTS with a german male voice?
>>
>> any hints appreciated,
>>
>> thx, reinhard
>> 
>
>
>   


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Re: [PD] some pd-music, and a bit of a blah

[jeremaja niko]

hey, i find this very beautyful.
like ecpecialy the deep background pad that is always to hear
this goes to my pd-mp3 collection.
keep a good work
nikola

Damian Stewart wrote:
> http://www.frey.co.nz/blog/2008/03/07/track24/
> 
> the link to the music is down the bottom; it's just an extract, the full 
> thing is 11 minutes long. this 11 minutes is itself a fragment of a longer 
> improvisation session with my patches and MIDI keyboard.
> 
> do let me know what you think, both of the music and of the words.
> 
> guitar is by my brother, Aaron Stewart, from a recording made about five 
> years ago.
> 
> thanks
> d

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[PD] new pd-gem audio-video synth

[jeremaja niko]

hi list
wanted to show ma last work including a lot of pd
wideo is here
http://www.njeremic.ecobytes.net/njeremic/videos/baum_net.mov
and pd patch here
http://www.njeremic.ecobytes.net/files/baum_pd_patch.zip
feel free to forward a link to someone who might be interested
all the best and keep a good work
nikola


-- 
http://njeremic.ecobytes.net/webplayer - listen music online
www.njeremic.ecobytes.net - webpage
www.echoplex-sound.de - echoplex studio

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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Derek Holzer]

On another note, something I've never liked about vbap is this "hole in 
the middle" problem. Pan a sound from left to right through the middle 
of your "room", rather than around the edge of the circle. Hear how 
everything jumps from left to right when you cross the zero point at the 
middle? That's the part I hate. I guess it's the inherent problem with 
cartesian vs polar coordinate systems.

best,
d.

-- 
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---Oblique Strategy # 73:
"From nothing to more than nothing"

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[PD] some pd-music, and a bit of a blah

[Damian Stewart]

http://www.frey.co.nz/blog/2008/03/07/track24/

the link to the music is down the bottom; it's just an extract, the full 
thing is 11 minutes long. this 11 minutes is itself a fragment of a longer 
improvisation session with my patches and MIDI keyboard.

do let me know what you think, both of the music and of the words.

guitar is by my brother, Aaron Stewart, from a recording made about five 
years ago.

thanks
d
-- 
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frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz

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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[chris clepper]

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Dudley Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> But how
> can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that people haven't
> noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?  (Not me, I'm
> afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video cards label
> screen directions and RGB colors?
>

This has been fixed in the code for at least 9 months.
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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Derek Holzer]

Hey Rob,

I've always wanted a graphical interface for creating these 
"choreographies", maybe something pressure sensitive so it goes 3D, so 
that you could just draw the trajectories. Maybe with a few Theremins or 
some 3D tracking device you could dance out the movement of the sound ;-)

When I "bang" the [define_loudspeakers] object on the left side of the 
help patch and send it to [print], this is what I get:

loudspeaker-matrices 3 4 1 2 3 0.707107 -0.707107 -0.707107 0.707107 
0.707107 -0.707107 -0 0 1.41421 0.707107 0.707107 0.707107 -0.707107 
0.707107 0 0 0 0.707107 1 3 4 6.18172e-08 -1.41421 -6.18172e-08 0.707107 
0.707107 0.707107 -0.707107 -0.707107 0.707107 0.707107 0.707107 
-0.707107 -0.707107 0 -6.18172e-08 0 0.707107 0.707107 2 3 4 
-6.18172e-08 1.41421 6.18172e-08 0.707107 -0.707107 0.707107 -0.707107 
0.707107 0.707107 0.707107 0.707107 -0.707107 0.707107 0 -6.18172e-08 0 
0.707107 0.707107

So if you wanted to do these calculations yourself somehow and create 
the message [loudspeaker-matrices n n n...< , the [vbap] object would 
respond to them (I just checked this). But [vbap] can be picky about 
what it accepts, otherwise you get a message saying it's not a valid 
speaker setup ("error in loudspeaker data!"). I guess only the 
sourcecode of either [vbap] or [define_loudspeakers] will tell you what 
a valid set of arguments looks like.

best!
d.

robcanning wrote:

> Derek Holzer wrote:
> hi derek,
>> Kind of an odd way to do it...move locations of the speakers instead 
>> of the locations of the sounds ;-)
> i like it, its kinda fun - you can have a sound orbiting then jumble up 
> the speaker definitions in various ways
> not very elegant perhaps but simple and can give some nice results with 
> minimum fuss
> would be interested to hear how other people create spatialisation 
> routines/choreographies...
>>
>> One thing I would watch our for is if redefining the speakers 
>> interrupts the DSP chain or not, in which case you'd get some dropouts 
>> every time you did it. You might want to check that out before 
>> proceeding.
> yes this happens, thats why i was wondering if it was possible to to 
> send a message rather than initiating a new instance
> not that this may help, just wanted to give it a try...
> 
> cheers
> 
> rob c
>>
>> best!
>> d.
>>
>> PS... some multichannel inspiration now showing at the Hamburger 
>> Bahnhohf, Berlin:
>>
>> http://www.hamburgerbahnhof.de/sonder/08/leitner0108/leitnere.html
>>
>>
>> robcanning wrote:
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> is it possible to send messages to the define_loadspeakers with the 
>>> speaker definitions
>>>
>>> i would like to manipulate my spatialisation routines by manipulating 
>>> the speaker definitions but don't want to create new instances of the 
>>> [define_loudspeaker] each time
>>>
>>> any suggestions?
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 192:
"Your mistake was a hidden intention"

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Re: [PD] GEM manual : 404 Not Found

[Steffen Juul]

On 07/03/2008, at 13.35, altern wrote:

> hi
>
> the GEM manual link at puredata.org and gem.iem.org does not work
>
> http://gem.iem.at/manual/

there is another link in http://puredata.info/docs/manuals


>
> enrike
>
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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[robcanning]

--- Begin Message ---

Derek Holzer wrote:
hi derek,
Kind of an odd way to do it...move locations of the speakers instead 
of the locations of the sounds ;-)
i like it, its kinda fun - you can have a sound orbiting then jumble up 
the speaker definitions in various ways
not very elegant perhaps but simple and can give some nice results with 
minimum fuss
would be interested to hear how other people create spatialisation 
routines/choreographies...


One thing I would watch our for is if redefining the speakers 
interrupts the DSP chain or not, in which case you'd get some dropouts 
every time you did it. You might want to check that out before 
proceeding.
yes this happens, thats why i was wondering if it was possible to to 
send a message rather than initiating a new instance

not that this may help, just wanted to give it a try...

cheers

rob c


best!
d.

PS... some multichannel inspiration now showing at the Hamburger 
Bahnhohf, Berlin:


http://www.hamburgerbahnhof.de/sonder/08/leitner0108/leitnere.html


robcanning wrote:

hi,

is it possible to send messages to the define_loadspeakers with the 
speaker definitions


i would like to manipulate my spatialisation routines by manipulating 
the speaker definitions but don't want to create new instances of the 
[define_loudspeaker] each time


any suggestions?






--- End Message ---
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Re: [PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[Derek Holzer]

Kind of an odd way to do it...move locations of the speakers instead of 
the locations of the sounds ;-)

One thing I would watch our for is if redefining the speakers interrupts 
the DSP chain or not, in which case you'd get some dropouts every time 
you did it. You might want to check that out before proceeding.

best!
d.

PS... some multichannel inspiration now showing at the Hamburger 
Bahnhohf, Berlin:

http://www.hamburgerbahnhof.de/sonder/08/leitner0108/leitnere.html


robcanning wrote:
> hi,
> 
> is it possible to send messages to the define_loadspeakers with the 
> speaker definitions
> 
> i would like to manipulate my spatialisation routines by manipulating 
> the speaker definitions but don't want to create new instances of the 
> [define_loudspeaker] each time
> 
> any suggestions?


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 51:
"Distorting time"

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[PD] GEM manual : 404 Not Found

[altern]

hi

the GEM manual link at puredata.org and gem.iem.org does not work

http://gem.iem.at/manual/

enrike

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[PD] vbap define_loudspeakers messages

[robcanning]

hi,

is it possible to send messages to the define_loadspeakers with the 
speaker definitions

i would like to manipulate my spatialisation routines by manipulating 
the speaker definitions but don't want to create new instances of the 
[define_loudspeaker] each time

any suggestions?

thanks

rob c

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[PD] pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c

[robcanning]

hi,
can anyone tell me how i get pvoc~.pd_linux from pvoc~.c
i cant find a makefile and dont know how to write one
i'm on debian testing and Pd version 0.41-1extended-20080227
thanks
rob c

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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Damian Stewart]

Roman Haefeli wrote:

> hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar the other way
> around.
> 
> since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
> different machines or in two different softwares, i think there are only
> very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller' (what does it
> mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the other. for me
> this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
> golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than others (i
> would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).

well, he also said that it was because the [osc~] had a larger table size 
in Pd than in Max, which would make sense.

my initial assumption was that it was to do bit-depth. i used to scoff at 
people who claimed 24 bit was better; but then i spent some time in a 
studio working with 24 bit audio, and, well, you notice. (but both Pd and 
Max are 32 bit float, right?)

i hear you about the speaker cables; there are differences even amongst 
digital stuff though. for example when Ableton Live clips, to my ears it 
clips a lot nicer than ProTools does. (actually ProTools in general sounds 
very dead - its precision means that you have to work your ass off to get 
colour into your sound.) and back when i was composing in a multitrack 
sequencer environment, i remember choosing to use Cubase SX because its 
audio engine just sounded nicer than any of the other apps of the time 
(Cakewalk and Logic being the main competitors).

> hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy thinks, that pd
> people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding stuff.
> or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
> [phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test, if there is
> any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase of a
> [phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from the
> other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
> then...  *i shut up*  ;-)

nice idea, but i'd try it with an [osc~]. anyone want to volunteer?

-- 
damian stewart | +351 967 797 263 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz

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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[Jan Thoben]

try

[gemhead]
   |  \
   |   [t b]
   |   |
   |   [snap(
   |  /
[pix snap 800 600]
   |
[pix_flip]
   |
[pix_yuv]
   |
[pix_record]

is has been discussed on the list:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-05/049939.html

cheers,
j



Dudley Brooks schrieb:
> jeremaja niko wrote:
>
>  > im using on mac program called "snapz pro x" and it is a screen
>  > capture program, witch can grab opengl window of gem as movie. this
>  > process needs a lot of cpu power so u need a powerfull machine. it is
>  > quite easy to use it.
>  > hope it helps
>
> It did indeed!  Thanks!  It was the only thing that finally let me get 
> my DVD made -- with just an hour and a half to spare!  The other three 
> methods (pix_record, pdp_rec~, and pix_write) had the various problems 
> mentioned in this thread.  Synchronizing the sound with the video was 
> hard also.  (The nature of the sound made it hard to find clear 
> landmarks for sliding the sound into alignment, and yet it was still 
> obvious when watching that they weren't in synch.  But with Snapz they 
> were in synch to begin with.)
>
> I also found that pix_record not only gets the colors wrong, but seems 
> to rotate the picture 90 degrees and reverse it as well.  (The abstract 
> nature of the piece is why that wasn't obvious immediately.)  But how 
> can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that people haven't 
> noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?  (Not me, I'm 
> afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video cards label 
> screen directions and RGB colors?
>
> -- Dudley
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Roman Haefeli]

On Fri, 2008-03-07 at 01:28 +, Damian Stewart wrote:
> hey,
> 
> i was talking to a Portuguese musician tonight (Miguel Cardoso is his name) 
> and he was saying that he thought that Pd sounded much better than Max - a 
> fuller sound with the oscillators, he said.
> 
> i hadn't really thought about this before, but i do know that to my ears my 
> Pd patches sound a lot richer than most Max/MSP stuff that I've heard - not 
> sure whether that's my source material or patches or whether it's at a 
> deeper architectural level than that.
> 
> anyone have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to confirm this? reasons 
> why this might be the case?


hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar the other way
around.

since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
different machines or in two different softwares, i think there are only
very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller' (what does it
mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the other. for me
this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than others (i
would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).

hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy thinks, that pd
people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding stuff.
or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
[phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test, if there is
any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase of a
[phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from the
other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
then...  *i shut up*  ;-)


roman

 




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Re: [PD] Saving Gem output as video file on MacOSX ?

[Dudley Brooks]

jeremaja niko wrote:

 > im using on mac program called "snapz pro x" and it is a screen
 > capture program, witch can grab opengl window of gem as movie. this
 > process needs a lot of cpu power so u need a powerfull machine. it is
 > quite easy to use it.
 > hope it helps

It did indeed!  Thanks!  It was the only thing that finally let me get 
my DVD made -- with just an hour and a half to spare!  The other three 
methods (pix_record, pdp_rec~, and pix_write) had the various problems 
mentioned in this thread.  Synchronizing the sound with the video was 
hard also.  (The nature of the sound made it hard to find clear 
landmarks for sliding the sound into alignment, and yet it was still 
obvious when watching that they weren't in synch.  But with Snapz they 
were in synch to begin with.)

I also found that pix_record not only gets the colors wrong, but seems 
to rotate the picture 90 degrees and reverse it as well.  (The abstract 
nature of the piece is why that wasn't obvious immediately.)  But how 
can it be that pix_record does this, and especially that people haven't 
noticed and complained?  Or fixed, those who know how?  (Not me, I'm 
afraid.)  Incompatibility between how the various video cards label 
screen directions and RGB colors?

-- Dudley



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Re: [PD] understanding vline~

[Steffen Juul]

On 07/03/2008, at 1.01, naysayer wrote:

> when you click on the rampup, jump down, ramp up again you don't  
> actually get to see that in the example patch because it happens so  
> quickly in the atom gui.(does anyone agree on that with me??).

I do.

> Where as if you print the output of snapshot   then you can see  
> that it is working

Better might be to display it in a graph.

Best, Steffen 

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[PD] Rotating object rolling on irregular terrain

[Andy Farnell]

I'm trying to obtain a waveform for a rolling cylinder on an irregular
surface. The signature looks like the attached, or see this paper.

https://www.enactivenetwork.org/download.php?id=97

Rath gives a formula that uses a square root, which I want to avoid.

Several methods I've tried, based on samplehold and a parabolic
shaper almost get there, but I can't quite crack this one.

It is the circular motion of the cylinder rotating around the last
maxima and truncated by the intersection of the radius with the next
minima.

I want to generate it from a samplehold noise (step waveform) source
in real time, so no look ahead or tables (although delaying by
some blocks is okay)

I've tried integrating and shaping the step wave, but it's not right :(

Now I can't see the wood for the trees and think I'm missing something
really obvious. 

Any geometry experts got an idea? 

Preferably something only in the signal domain.

Cheers,

Andy


-- 
Use the source


uneven.eps
Description: PostScript document
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Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas

[Georg Holzmann]

Hallo!

> In light of the recent discussion about Blender + Pd is there
> maybe some possibility of a combined cross application proposal?

As far as I remember it does not need to be restricted to pd.
The Pd-mentors will decide which projects are accepted (not google), so 
if they think that blender+pd would be a nice project this is of course 
possible ...

LG
Georg

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Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas

[Andy Farnell]

In light of the recent discussion about Blender + Pd is there
maybe some possibility of a combined cross application proposal?

I don't know much about how this Google SOC works.

Another thought I had;

For sponsorship, what are the chances of EA or other companies that
are making use of Pd sponsoring a team, or folding back in some
source changes they've made?




On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:25:02 -0500
Chris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:30:20 +0100
> > Georg Holzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > We discussed at the LAC that we would like to apply again this year for 
> > > google's summer of code project, which is about to start today 
> > > (http://code.google.com/soc/2008/).
> 
> On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 01:41:00PM +, Andy Farnell wrote:
> > I'd be happy to join any team that has a games+audio+Pd proposal
> > as a mentor.
> 
> I have added this:
> 
> 
> Which is my proposal to make it easier to compile the audio-engine part
> of Pd as a library and link it into your own projects. This has been
> asked about numerous times on the list, almost always to do with games
> related projects, and we all know that it's happening already in Spore.
> 
> Also, this could really help with some of the other SOC projects like
> PluggoPd, PdVST, etc. so it's highly re-useable.
> 
> The only problem here is the confusing name; there is already a PdLib
> project, which in my opinion should be called 'PdExternals' or something,
> but LibPd seems a very appropriate name for a project for using Pd as
> a library.
> 
> I guess I'm happy to mentor this but Andy is probably a better candidate
> than me if he's interested! Or we could co-mentor - whatevs.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris.
> 
> ---
> http://mccormick.cx


-- 
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Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas

[Georg Holzmann]

Hallo!

Hans-Christoph Steiner schrieb:
> Shall we apply as Pure Data this time?  I am ok to apply as IEM  

Yes, I think we should do it as Pure Data, as discussed in Cologne ...

> again, but it just seems that most projects apply as the project  
> rather than as another institution.  Does anyone want to be the GSoC  
> admin on this?

Could you do this ? It needs to be done before March 12.

Therefore you will need a list of the mentors I think. So far are 
IOhannes, Andy Farnell, Chris McCormick and you - anyone else ?

I added some more project ideas to 
http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas/ and 
also some old ones.

LG
Georg

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