Re: [PD] poles, zeros and gain
Isidro Gonzalez wrote: so is it possible to get the gain from the poles and zeros, without calculating all coefficients? Of Course it is. You must evaluate the transfer function of the filter in the unit circle. For a nice explanation on how to do this and some C code samples, see: Elements of Computer Music by F. R. Moore, Cap.1 pp. 119-133 thanks for the hints. i will see if i can find this book somewhere. bis denn! martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] no help file for Gem objects
Hello, There is the following error, if I try to open the help file of a Gem object: sorry, couldn't find help patch for gemhead.pd the help files for PD objects are ok. Thanks, Birgit ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] no help file for Gem objects
Birgit Gasteiger wrote: Hello, There is the following error, if I try to open the help file of a Gem object: sorry, couldn't find help patch for gemhead.pd the help files for PD objects are ok. which OS? which distribution? (how did you get Gem? did you compile it yourself? if so did you do a make install?) fgmasdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] audacity and PD problems with Jack
Hallo, altern hat gesagt: // altern wrote: Could anyone suggest some basic sound recorder that works with jack? I just need to record the jack output, no need for multitrack or editing, just be able to select the sound format, frequency and amplitude maybe. Actually even if you don't need all of its features, I would also suggest Ardour. Even with all its functionality, it still is a very fast and relatively resource-friendly application. It certainly does a better job than Audacity in practically every aspect. Other than that I'd follow Claude's advice and use ecasound, but you'd need Ardour or similar anyway to trim your recordings. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PdExtended autobuild
Le Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:29:45 +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Olivier Heinry wrote: hi, looks like the debian stable autobuild of last night didnt make it. it would be nice if you could also provide the information _why_ the autobuild did not succeed (as can be found in the autobuild-logs). Yep, I didnt provide anything since I noticed these logs are as easy to find. btw, whenever an autobuild on the build-farm fails, there will be an automated email to the pd-cvs mailinglist, telling so (and appending a tail of the logfile to get an idea why it did fail) good to know. personally i would rather not revert to etch (who works with multimedia and can live with a debian/stable anyhow :-)?) Well it's hard to live with a debian/unstable in aproduction environment, I tell you! I reverted to etch since I hoped to have the best of both worlds: stable AND multimedia! (which obviously isnt the case!) ++ O. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] no help file for Gem objects
IOhannes m zmoelnig schrieb: Birgit Gasteiger wrote: Hello, There is the following error, if I try to open the help file of a Gem object: sorry, couldn't find help patch for gemhead.pd the help files for PD objects are ok. which OS? which distribution? (how did you get Gem? did you compile it yourself? if so did you do a make install?) fgmasdr IOhannes Sorry, I installed the Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20080406 from puredata.info and I am running it on Kubuntu 7.1 Best, Birgit ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] debian etch vs lenny (was Re: PdExtended autobuild)
Olivier Heinry wrote: Yep, I didnt provide anything since I noticed these logs are as easy to find. good to know. aye, your approach does make sense if you were not aware of the automatic mails on fail. (sorry if i was too harsh) personally i would rather not revert to etch (who works with multimedia and can live with a debian/stable anyhow :-)?) Well it's hard to live with a debian/unstable in aproduction environment, I tell you! I reverted to etch since I hoped to have the best of both worlds: stable AND multimedia! (which obviously isnt the case!) right, sometimes it is really hard to decide which one to use. still i think that running plain etch will not get you far, if you want to try things out (in multimedia). if you have a small set of applications (e.g. ardour, a certain Pd-patch) you have to run really stable then you might be fine with etch. but for trying things out (e.g. seeing whether i bug has been fixed in the current Gem CVS version), i would not recommend stable as the platform of choice. things are not so bad, if you are not on stable/vanilla but can add the debian-multimedia repositories; but these are obviously missing from the autobuild machines (for legal reasons). of course unstable is usually just that: unstable. but luckily there are things inbetween: testing (lenny) but i have to admit that usually i run lenny+sid mixtures, as some packages (the ones i need), tend to hang in sid forever. finally: kernel-2.6.24 really makes a difference in latency, i can recommend it; however, getting your nvidia-card to run decently with etch or lenny and this kernel is nearly impossible :-( fmgasdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] audacity and PD problems with Jack
Frank Barknecht(e)k dio: Hallo, altern hat gesagt: // altern wrote: Could anyone suggest some basic sound recorder that works with jack? I just need to record the jack output, no need for multitrack or editing, just be able to select the sound format, frequency and amplitude maybe. Actually even if you don't need all of its features, I would also suggest Ardour. Even with all its functionality, it still is a very fast and relatively resource-friendly application. It certainly does a better job than Audacity in practically every aspect. i do such small work on audio files! just cut some small parts. but i think i should check ardour better... Other than that I'd follow Claude's advice and use ecasound, but you'd need Ardour or similar anyway to trim your recordings. ok thanks ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] debian etch vs lenny (was Re: PdExtended autobuild)
Le Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:58:41 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Olivier Heinry wrote: Yep, I didnt provide anything since I noticed these logs are as easy to find. good to know. personally i would rather not revert to etch (who works with multimedia and can live with a debian/stable anyhow :-)?) Well it's hard to live with a debian/unstable in aproduction environment, I tell you! I reverted to etch since I hoped to have the best of both worlds: stable AND multimedia! (which obviously isnt the case!) right, sometimes it is really hard to decide which one to use. still i think that running plain etch will not get you far, if you want to try things out (in multimedia). if you have a small set of applications (e.g. ardour, a certain Pd-patch) you have to run really stable then you might be fine with etch. yep. nonetheless the only repositoruies which I add to the source-list are debian-multimedai and its mirrors, plus proposed-updates. but for trying things out (e.g. seeing whether i bug has been fixed in the current Gem CVS version), i would not recommend stable as the platform of choice. I'm not that deep in chroot thingie and multiboot, although I installed Innotek's virtualbox on a feisty fresh install for a friend to keep his Lanbox program running under XP and it worked really fine. then comes the hard disk space (laptop!) things are not so bad, if you are not on stable/vanilla but can add the debian-multimedia repositories; but these are obviously missing from the autobuild machines (for legal reasons). of course unstable is usually just that: unstable. but luckily there are things inbetween: testing (lenny) but i have to admit that usually i run lenny+sid mixtures, as some packages (the ones i need), tend to hang in sid forever. finally: kernel-2.6.24 really makes a difference in latency, i can recommend it; however, getting your nvidia-card to run decently with etch or lenny and this kernel is nearly impossible :-( the real problem with unstable and even testing is the how to keep these f##g nVidia drivers up and running. I remember very clearly the days I spent recompiling kernel 2.6.21 because of the new FTBS rules and that was one good reason to revert to etch. One good reason to keep Etch was that the nvidia kernel module was released the same day as the new kernel update. A little bit off-topic: Is there any possibility to run Gem with free hardware and free drivers as well? I havent heard of it yet, apparently the Intel drivers dont implement all features (cf older threads). ++ O. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] no help file for Gem objects
I always get that problem on OSX, the files should be in gem/Gem/help, i think if you add the path in the pd preferences it should work, J On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:39 AM, Birgit Gasteiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig schrieb: Birgit Gasteiger wrote: Hello, There is the following error, if I try to open the help file of a Gem object: sorry, couldn't find help patch for gemhead.pd the help files for PD objects are ok. which OS? which distribution? (how did you get Gem? did you compile it yourself? if so did you do a make install?) fgmasdr IOhannes Sorry, I installed the Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20080406 from puredata.info and I am running it on Kubuntu 7.1 Best, Birgit ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] no help file for Gem objects
On Apr 14, 2008, at 7:39 AM, Birgit Gasteiger wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig schrieb: Birgit Gasteiger wrote: Hello, There is the following error, if I try to open the help file of a Gem object: sorry, couldn't find help patch for gemhead.pd the help files for PD objects are ok. which OS? which distribution? (how did you get Gem? did you compile it yourself? if so did you do a make install?) fgmasdr IOhannes Sorry, I installed the Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20080406 from puredata.info and I am running it on Kubuntu 7.1 Best, Birgit Thanks for reporting this. Please add a bug report, with that version of Pd-extended, you can do this via the Help menu: Help-report bug .hc Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] prev for Data Structures?
Hi all, How feasible would a prev message to [pointer] be (naturally, this would be the complement to the next message, outputting the previous pointer in the list)? I'm very keen to make a scrubbable sequencer that can be driven by [line]s rather than the usual [del]-based arrangement, but my current method of just dumping the entire data-structure on every tick and searching for elements whose x-value matches the current time requires twice the CPU I have available. I thought about mirroring the data-structure and traversing one or the other depending on direction, but I think this will get untenable quickly. Cheers Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mtx_* and similar on OS X
Yeah this is annoying. I'm pretty sick of the way that libraries are managed in Pd right now. What I do for the 50 million separate iem-libs is to just dump them all in the /extra folder directly. Then they seem to work right. Kudos though to the pdmtl crew. They are doing the right thing with organization strategies: unifying the cruft and making things easy to understand. I am all for Pd-extended to adopt this method completely. It makes more sense to have a single use-based directory structure for externals and abstractions a la pdmtl. If devs can get over the ego shock of giving up their little cvs fiefdoms. ~Kyle On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:51 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not 100% sure, but i think you need a library called hexloader to load these objects. (should load on startup with pd-extended. then mtx_* will know that it has to load äh... I think you can also try mtx_mul. marius. Luigi Rensinghoff wrote: Hi List i can imagine this was asked before.. i am on OSX and i was trying to go through pdmtl-abstractions i cam across the mtx_* object which cannot be loaded...because it appears as somethin like how do i know which one is which this question might concern many other libs i guess... even ~ or something might not load because of a similar issue bye Luigi ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] shall we release?
yes, and a rectangle. pix_movie is broken for a long time now. separator does not help in this case. m. chris clepper wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:38 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yea, that stops the flickering. and this also stops flickering with pix_mix and pix_video in the left inlet. btw, I attach another file that shows the output of pix_film on my machine. but I think you knew that problem already... marius. I don't know this problem. That is just pix_film into pix_record? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] shall we release?
I can't make pix_film do this even with the shitty Apple written Nvidia drivers. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:48 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes, and a rectangle. pix_movie is broken for a long time now. separator does not help in this case. m. chris clepper wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:38 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yea, that stops the flickering. and this also stops flickering with pix_mix and pix_video in the left inlet. btw, I attach another file that shows the output of pix_film on my machine. but I think you knew that problem already... marius. I don't know this problem. That is just pix_film into pix_record? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] shall we release?
chris clepper wrote: I can't make pix_film do this even with the shitty Apple written Nvidia drivers. pix_movie not pix_film I have an ATI X1600. and an i-sight. marius. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:48 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes, and a rectangle. pix_movie is broken for a long time now. separator does not help in this case. m. chris clepper wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:38 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yea, that stops the flickering. and this also stops flickering with pix_mix and pix_video in the left inlet. btw, I attach another file that shows the output of pix_film on my machine. but I think you knew that problem already... marius. I don't know this problem. That is just pix_film into pix_record? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] shall we release?
Oh. Your email said pix_film and I asked if it was pix_film into pix_record. It is odd that the busted 10.5 fast path alters the contents of CPU side memory which is completely nuts. Try pix_film - pix_separator - pix_texture with client_storage 1 to get some sort of performance back. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:57 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: chris clepper wrote: I can't make pix_film do this even with the shitty Apple written Nvidia drivers. pix_movie not pix_film I have an ATI X1600. and an i-sight. marius. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:48 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes, and a rectangle. pix_movie is broken for a long time now. separator does not help in this case. m. chris clepper wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:38 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yea, that stops the flickering. and this also stops flickering with pix_mix and pix_video in the left inlet. btw, I attach another file that shows the output of pix_film on my machine. but I think you knew that problem already... marius. I don't know this problem. That is just pix_film into pix_record? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] shall we release?
sorry for the confusion. I wanted to say pix_movie, but said pix_film... just to make this clear: pix_film with separator is working fine (as I wrote before). I did not experience any performance drawback with the one separator. but I will try to use it with client_storage 1. the second file I sent was the bug of pix_*movie* into pix_record. marius. chris clepper wrote: Oh. Your email said pix_film and I asked if it was pix_film into pix_record. It is odd that the busted 10.5 fast path alters the contents of CPU side memory which is completely nuts. Try pix_film - pix_separator - pix_texture with client_storage 1 to get some sort of performance back. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:57 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: chris clepper wrote: I can't make pix_film do this even with the shitty Apple written Nvidia drivers. pix_movie not pix_film I have an ATI X1600. and an i-sight. marius. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:48 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes, and a rectangle. pix_movie is broken for a long time now. separator does not help in this case. m. chris clepper wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:38 PM, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yea, that stops the flickering. and this also stops flickering with pix_mix and pix_video in the left inlet. btw, I attach another file that shows the output of pix_film on my machine. but I think you knew that problem already... marius. I don't know this problem. That is just pix_film into pix_record? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM-dev] shall we release?
Well shit, you had me concerned for a minute.
Here's the full story:
The fast path for texturing involves asynchronously uploading the texture
from CPU memory to the GPU. pix_movie does this without caching the image
(which involves copying it) and instead calls the texture instructions for
the previous decoded frame. The code looks like this:
render {
texFrame()
getFrame()
}
It worked great from 10.2 to 10.4, but for some reason it is broken
completely on 10.5 and the 10.4 Nvidia drivers. Why? I don't know but the
code behind the async upload is Carbon which is dead and buried at Apple.
No fixes planned, you need to move to Cocoa. Nice.
What pix_separator is going to do is hold a copy of the frame in memory that
is not related to the Quicktime decode and the driver can yank that up to
the GPU whenever it feels like. This is not optimal but it is the option
currently available. I have done a little work on some CoreVideo code which
only works on 10.5. Don't hold your breath for this code being as fast as
10.4 since CoreVideo does a lot of memory copying too.
Good luck.
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:12 PM, marius schebella
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
sorry for the confusion. I wanted to say pix_movie, but said pix_film...
just to make this clear: pix_film with separator is working fine (as I
wrote before). I did not experience any performance drawback with the one
separator. but I will try to use it with client_storage 1.
the second file I sent was the bug of pix_*movie* into pix_record.
marius.
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Re: [PD] prev for Data Structures?
Horribly unfeasible -- the data are stored as a singly linked list. Going back would require searching forward from the beginning. cheers Miller On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:36:13AM -0700, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: Hi all, How feasible would a prev message to [pointer] be (naturally, this would be the complement to the next message, outputting the previous pointer in the list)? I'm very keen to make a scrubbable sequencer that can be driven by [line]s rather than the usual [del]-based arrangement, but my current method of just dumping the entire data-structure on every tick and searching for elements whose x-value matches the current time requires twice the CPU I have available. I thought about mirroring the data-structure and traversing one or the other depending on direction, but I think this will get untenable quickly. Cheers Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] prev for Data Structures?
Hallo, Luke Iannini (pd) hat gesagt: // Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: I'm very keen to make a scrubbable sequencer that can be driven by [line]s rather than the usual [del]-based arrangement, but my current method of just dumping the entire data-structure on every tick and searching for elements whose x-value matches the current time requires twice the CPU I have available. I thought about mirroring the data-structure and traversing one or the other depending on direction, but I think this will get untenable quickly. Maybe you can use an array field to store your events instead? You can index this by an integer. Ciao -- Frank ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] prev for Data Structures?
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Miller Puckette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Horribly unfeasible -- the data are stored as a singly linked list. Going back would require searching forward from the beginning. cheers Miller I thought as much, thanks for the answer. Would built-in search methods be any faster than what I describe (dumping all pointers, [get]ting and [sel]ecting looking for one with a particular value)? Maybe you can use an array field to store your events instead? You can index this by an integer. Ciao -- Frank This was on the tip of my brain : ). Thanks for prodding me into it, I'm trying it out now and I'll let you know how it goes. It will also be a natural fit to adding note layers that can be toggled on and off or manipulated individually, so that's cool too. As an aside, I'd like to start a ds-abs collection soon to go alongside list-abs. I've got a few in SVN that I'll be splitting out soon, and it would be great if anyone wants to contribute more. Cheers Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] prev for Data Structures?
That's what I'd do. Someday I'll implement an 'nth' method for pointer (and search methods too) that will make this easier. As usual, just gotta figure out the most robust design. cheers M On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 05:33:54PM -0700, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Miller Puckette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Horribly unfeasible -- the data are stored as a singly linked list. Going back would require searching forward from the beginning. cheers Miller I thought as much, thanks for the answer. Would built-in search methods be any faster than what I describe (dumping all pointers, [get]ting and [sel]ecting looking for one with a particular value)? Maybe you can use an array field to store your events instead? You can index this by an integer. Ciao -- Frank This was on the tip of my brain : ). Thanks for prodding me into it, I'm trying it out now and I'll let you know how it goes. It will also be a natural fit to adding note layers that can be toggled on and off or manipulated individually, so that's cool too. As an aside, I'd like to start a ds-abs collection soon to go alongside list-abs. I've got a few in SVN that I'll be splitting out soon, and it would be great if anyone wants to contribute more. Cheers Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Building messages
Hey list, I'm working with fiddle and OSC, and I need to build the OSC messages from fiddle data. I already did a patch that I don´t really like because I haven´t find the way to build the messages in a good way. All numbers are flying from here to there, and I think that´s a better way to solve this problem. I need to compose a OSC message like this: [/messagename xxx yyy( where xxx and yyy are values from fiddle. And I need that one message is build and send everytime xxx or yyy changes. Anyone knows some place where I can find information about composing messages? I read help information into PD Reference Changing-messages, but I need to do things that aren´t described there. Thanks, Ricardo D. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
