Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:38:25AM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Note that I also think, the math objects (abs~, pow~ etc.) should be > part of Pd, and probably symbol2list. I second this. Miller, what do you think? You have mentioned importing Cyclone into Pd; is it just a matter of yourself not having had the time to do this yet? Would you rather this happened in pd-extended first, or would you accept and apply patches rectifying this and making basic math tilde internals if they didn't conflict with Cyclone externals? Sorry to be so direct! Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:02:37 +0100 > From: Andy Farnell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla? > To: pd-list@iem.at = > Right now my 'missing' list includes [z~], [abs~], [ln~], [log~], > [pow~], [tanh~], [cosh~] One might put [atan~] and [atan2~] on this list as well. [ln~] and [log~] probably ought instead to be [log~] and [log10~], respectively. Actually, for those of us who insist on vanilla and do everything with expr/expr~/fexpr~ or abstractions, is it possible to implement [z~] in fexpr~ for a delay larger than its vector size? You could do it with an abstraction using [delwrite~] and [delread~], setting the [block~] to 1, and then set the delay as a ratio to the [samplerate~] -- the difficulty in making it work correctly here is setting the size of the [delwrite~] efficiently (this could maybe be done with a loadbang routine that would send a message to a subpatch in the abstraction instance to add and connect a delwrite~ with the proper delay allocation...). In pedagogical situations such an example might also be useful for gently introducing the block/vector structure of PD that you would need anyway for proper delay/feedback examples as well as FFT (and possibly for sending messages to subpatches), but I'm pretty sure it's not the most efficient model available. On a similar note, is it possible to recreate things like [zexy/noish~] or [zexy/noisi~] in vanilla PD as an abstraction? It would be great to have these for building pinkish noise or random control of other audio parameters, and these seem fairly primitive to any serious synthesis engine. Thanks, Matt ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fann or ann external
I'm both Windows Vista and Linux (Fedora 8). My personal patches go on Linux. My job patches on Windows. Thanks. 2008/4/22 Kevin McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > As of 0.39-3 ext I had to download them from cvs (maybe svn now??) and > compile them after compiling libfann from source as well. What OS are > you on? > > http://leenissen.dk/fann/ > > km > > > > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Ricardo Dueñas Parada > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi everybody. > > > > Anyone knows where can I find the FANN or ANN externals, and which of > both > > is in use? > > Some documents say that they are part of pd-extended, but they are not > in my > > extra folder. > > > > Thanks. > > > > _Ricardo D. > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://art.sewanee.edu/mccoy > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fann or ann external
As of 0.39-3 ext I had to download them from cvs (maybe svn now??) and compile them after compiling libfann from source as well. What OS are you on? http://leenissen.dk/fann/ km On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Ricardo Dueñas Parada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi everybody. > > Anyone knows where can I find the FANN or ANN externals, and which of both > is in use? > Some documents say that they are part of pd-extended, but they are not in my > extra folder. > > Thanks. > > _Ricardo D. > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > -- http://art.sewanee.edu/mccoy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex messages?
Ken Restivo wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:53:44AM -0400, Michal Seta wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Michal Seta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Have you tried reading your SysEx with [midiin]? >> I just tried it. Seems to be working but I could not check the >> integrity of the data although it appears fine on the surface. HTH. >> > > Nothing shows up on the outputs of midiin or on sysexin. > > However, aseqdump shows that the data is definitely being pumped out by the > keyboard, and making it into ALSA. > > Notes and CC's show up just fine in pd via notein, etc. > > May be a bug or misconfiguration in my specific setup of PD then. > > -ken > > hi ken, have you tried to send short sysex messages (shorter than 20 bytes) to midiin? look at http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-07/052435.html maybe your dump is too long. best peter ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Gem crash in Ubuntu Gutsy
hi all, I'm working on PD 0.40 and Gem 0.90 (installed via Synaptic), everything works fine with PD and pdp but when I create any objects related to Gem GUI (gemwin) or open a patch with gemwin, it crashes with the output below: pd -verbose -lib Gem Pd version 0.40-2 compiled 22:04:28 Dec 7 2006 port 5400 TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/lib/pd/tcl/library" TK_LIBRARY="/usr/lib/pd/tk/library" "/usr/lib/pd/bin/pd-gui" 5400 Waiting for connection request... ... connected OSS: requested audio buffer size 8816 limited to 8192 OSS: issuing first ADC 'read' ... ...done. socket receive error: Connection reset by peer (104) Segmentation fault (core dumped) Same situation if I work as root (except it connects to port 5401) seems to be some problems with tcl/tk but I've installed the latest from Synaptic, P.S I'm working on MacBook Thanks, ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Wacom tablet support on MacOSX
I wonder if anybody has written a Wacom app the sends all its data over network sockets... In geneal, this is a very handy way to interface pd through netreceive, as it de-couples the device drivers from pd and often works better than a "native" app. /Mikael On 3 Apr 2008, at 22:17, Thomas Grill wrote: > > Am 03.04.2008 um 22:59 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: > >> >> No, someone would have to write an object to the Wacom API since >> they decided not use the HID API. On GNU/Linux, the wacom's use >> the HID API, so they'll work with [hid]. >> > > A related problem is that Wacom doesn not allow the disclosure of > the API source code, hence all Windows or OSX objects can't be open > source. > I actually have an object for OSX (on http://g.org/ext/beta). > It's hardly tested, so no guarantees > > gr~~~ > > > -- > Thomas Grill > http://g.org > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote: > If you want to avoid too much search-and-replace editing, maybe you > could introduce your own wrapper abstraction version of [pow~] with > [expr~ pow($v2, $v1)] inside? Call it [andypowell~] and do a > search/replace session. Or call it [pow~] and tell people, that they > either use the wrapper or install Cyclone or wait for a > math.h-enhanced Pd-vanilla. Okay, not pow~, but attached [math~] object wraps all unary signal operations of expr~ in a trival, but nicer-looking abstraction. [math2~] for pow~ is left as an exercise for the reader. ;) Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ math~-help.pd Description: application/puredata math~.pd Description: application/puredata ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structure grain weirdness with x-y arrays
On an unrelated note, I just discovered: Option/Command click on an element to duplicate the element (it's best to click and drag since it will appear on top of the element you click on), or just to the left of the element to delete it (when using Option, cursors appear to let one know which operation will occur, but oddly not with Command). Shift-dragging an element moves it *and* all following elements after it. I was vaguely aware of Command-clicking to add elements (though I had never gotten it to work), but I had no idea about deleting and dragging, both of which will be extremely useful in a sequencing context. I guess I'll stick these in the wiki somewhere. Cheers Luke On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Luke Iannini (pd) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hallo, > I'm continuing work on a data structure sequencer, and have switched > to using arrays for performance reasons thanks to Frank and Miller's > suggestion. That worked quite well! Thanks again. > > One door leads to another, of course: I've run into an odd issue when > using the relatively recent grain and scale definitions with the > elements of the array. I've attached a modified version of > 05.array.pd to demonstrate. Dragging array elements with the mouse > becomes erratic as soon as the "-y y(0:100)(0:1000)(1)" or similar > instruction is added to [plot], in that very fast mouse movements are > required to effect any change (i.e. move the mouse slowly enough, and > the element won't move at all). > > As far as I can tell the bug applies to the direction being "grained", > but adding grain/scale to -x broke things entirely for me (the drawing > seemed to occur correctly, but I couldn't find any clickable > hotspots). > > Finally, the hotspots for resizing elements also become displaced in > the x direction. In the patch, try resizing the rightmost green boxes > in the array to see what I mean. > > That's all. > > (okay, not really. Are there any plans to add the "change" pointer > output to elements of an array? Their [struct]s remain silent.) > > Cheers > Luke > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Query Pd internal variables from a patch
Hi Andy, things you might already know, but never the less: [receive pd dsp] will give you the status of the dsp engine (0/1) and [samplerate~] when banged outputs the current samplerate. but getting the number of channels and the device number might be harder though. regards, Peter Andy Farnell wrote: > > An interesting question on the forum has me scratching my head here, > perhaps someone knows this? > > "What's the best method to access to soundcard info and number of channels > from a PD patch? I try to explain... I'm comunicating PD patch with Flash > using > OSC. How can I retry soundcard type, info, and number of channels from the PD > patch and send to Flash app? Thanks a lot in advance." > > So, is there a message that can be used to query the state of the audio > engine and return stuff like sample rate, channels? > > a. > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] xxxxx_workshop_44 Berlin: PD sensor input part II
April 26th 2PM: AVR/HID Sensor Input into Pure Data with Derek Holzer & Martin Howse We will continue last month's investigation of quick and cheap ways of getting sensor input into the Pure Data programming environment, using either USB game controllers or ATmega8 microcontrollers and the HID (Human Interface Device) protocol. Participants should bring the AVR/HID boards and/or hacked joysticks from the previous workshop. Those who did not attend the previous workshop are welcome, and ready made sensor boards can be purchased as part of the participation fee. Please RSVP to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> if you plan to attend, and indicate whether you will need a sensor input board for Saturday. A few (!) sample sensors will be provided, but participants are encouraged to bring their own sensors (light, pressure, motion, etc...) for experimentation. The Pure Data programming environment will be used to get the sensor information into the computer and map it to different parameters, ranging from MIDI to direct control of audio or video. Windows users should be aware that the possibilities for input on their systems may be more restricted. GNU/Linux and Mac OS X users should not expect any problems. Some links for those interested: http://1010.co.uk/avrhid.html (AVR/HID board documentation) http://puredata.info/downloads (install PD-Extended 0.39 from here!) http://www.sensorwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page (comprehensive list of sensors for musical use) ---What to bring: Essential: 1) Laptop running Linux, OS X or Windows (be advised that Windows users may have fewer possibilities) 2) Pure Data Extended 0.39 installed from: http://puredata.info/downloads (please mind that it is Extended and 0.39) 3) Soundcard (internal or external, quality a non-issue) 4) Headphones 5) EUR 10 participation fee (+ 8 euros if you need a sensor board) Recommended/Suggested: 1) Sensors of any kind 2) USB game controller of any kind 3) Microphones or other sound inputs 4) Your own project ideas for discussion ---About the Teachers Derek Holzer [USA 1972] began working with Pure Data in 2001. Since then, he has taught and performed with the program across Europe, North America, Brazil and New Zealand. His work focuses on field recording, networked collaboration strategies, experiments in improvisational sound and the use of free software such as Pure-Data. He is currently writing a beginner's manual for Pure Data. http://www.umatic.nl/info_derek.html http://www.umatic.nl/workshops.html http://flossmanuals.net/puredata Martin Howse operates within the fields of discourse, speculative hardware (environmental data in open physical systems), code (an examination of layers of abstraction), free software and the situational (performances and interventions). http://1010.co.uk ---___ x_workshops A (more-or-less) weekly series of constructivist workshops emphasising making and connection within the field of the existent. Forthcoming matter: May 3rd: Ephemeral Exposures//Instant Imagery with Alice Miceli And Kathrin Guenter Kirlian photography, radio telescopy, data forensics, EVP/ITC, scrying boards, KiCad PCB design, CMOS audio synthesis, GStreamer framework ... contact if you're interested in leading a related workshop. //<- Background: Workshops led by field-expert practitioners extend over realms of code and embedded code, environmental code, noise, transmission and reception, and electromysticism. Workshops solely utilise free software and GNU toolbase. Practitioners have included Martin Kuentz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), Julian Oliver (http://selectparks.net/), Derek Holzer (http://soundtransit.nl), Jeff Mann (http://jeffmann.com), Martin Howse (http://1010.co.uk), Fredrik Olofsson (http://www.fredrikolofsson.com/), Florian Cramer (http://cramer.plaintext.cc:70/), Brendan Howell, , jo FRGMNT grys(http://tob.de.vu/), mikomikona http://www.zuviel.tv/mikomikona.html x, pickledfeet, Linienstrasse 54, Berlin 10119 U2, Rosa-Luxemburg-Pl. U8, Rosenthaler Pl. Telephone: 3050187482. http://1010.co.uk/workshop.html http://1010.co.uk/x_research_institute.html http://pickledfeet.com ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Query Pd internal variables from a patch
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > An interesting question on the forum has me scratching my head here, > perhaps someone knows this? > > "What's the best method to access to soundcard info and number of channels > from a PD patch? I try to explain... I'm comunicating PD patch with Flash > using > OSC. How can I retry soundcard type, info, and number of channels from the PD > patch and send to Flash app? Thanks a lot in advance." > > So, is there a message that can be used to query the state of the audio > engine and return stuff like sample rate, channels? samplerate~ of course is easy, but for the other things I don't know an elegant solution. This is especially hard as Pd uses so many different ways to access a sound device: Portaudio, ALSA, OSS, JACK, ASIO, Coraudio, maybe more? You could try to eavesdrop on the [r pd] receiver, watch for audio-related messages: print: audio-setapi 1 print: audio-dialog 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 44100 50 print: audio-setapi 2 print: audio-dialog 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 44100 50 but that only works for changes to a running patch. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > Unfortunately I've used [pow~] in dozens of other patches and it's > quite unfeasible to go back and rewrite all of them and the accompanying > text. It would take me weeks, and so I feel (on an emotional level) > quite pissed off because adding [pow~] to vanilla Pd is only a matter > of will and possibly 10 mins work to push it into the next build. If you want to avoid too much search-and-replace editing, maybe you could introduce your own wrapper abstraction version of [pow~] with [expr~ pow($v2, $v1)] inside? Call it [andypowell~] and do a search/replace session. Or call it [pow~] and tell people, that they either use the wrapper or install Cyclone or wait for a math.h-enhanced Pd-vanilla. The only thing left to check would be if you ever used [pow~ ARG] with an argument and maybe make that into a different abstraction. It's not totally beautiful, but well, at least it's possible to move back and forth a bit (i.e. if during your writing of the book Miller includes [pow~] you can just delete the pow~-abstraction paragraph.) > If I'm going to aim this at Millers Pd rather than Extended then I feel > it's only fair to have some movement making these small but vital > improvements to vanilla. > > > > Note that I also think, the math objects (abs~, pow~ etc.) should be > > part of Pd, and probably symbol2list. > > Two of us doesn't make a concensus, but I've got the feeling most would > agree. > > Can we make this a catalyst to get a definite commitment to patch > up vanilla with the missing essentials? I still can't find the > message, but I'm sure Miller said something about bringing Cyclone > into vanilla. He mentioned on pd-dev, that he has considered this. Quote: there's text-editor code in Krzysztof Chaya's library, that I've wanted to glom into the vanilla Pd source for some time now (exactly so that people can pop up text editor windows for any 'binbuf' contents). Only thing holding me back is two minor issues: 1. I can't decide whether it's appropriate to glom te whole of Cyclone into Pd; and 2. assuming I don't do that, I'm worried it might break cyclone itself to export symbols from Pd that are also defined by cyclone. http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-03/060677.html > Can I please ask all the maths heads here to help define what would > constitute a mathematically complete object set for audio signal processing? > > Right now my 'missing' list includes [z~], [abs~], [ln~], [log~], > [pow~], [tanh~], [cosh~] I think, most operations from the standard C math library should be included as (signal) objects in Pd. The selection Lua took would be my guideline: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#5.6 Note that there's no [ln~] here or rather: the natural log. would be called [log~] if following math.h. And as known [cos~] doesn't follow math.h nor [cos] either. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Andy Farnell wrote: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:17 +0200 > Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I'm reluctant to mention [counter] here, which also was coded many >> times, unfortunatly in incompatible ways. I'm reluctant, because >> [counter] is too basic to be included. > > > I heartily agree. In fact I don't suggest any message domain changes to > vanilla right now, just the missing signal processing operators. [counter] > is a perfect example of something that should never be in core Pd, it is > ill defined. Things like [tanh~] however are fundamentally defined, so there's > no change of two conflicting implementations (unless one is wrong). If you look at "counter" as a class of several methods, then you will agree, that it should have more features than just adding "1" everytime you send it a bang message. It should be able to count in different steps, start and end at different values, should be resettable, and probably should incorporate some more features like report when it hits the maximum or when it jumps back to the lowest value. there needs to be a place where the functionality of such kind of higher level object classes need to be discussed and specified, and then provided as whatever (c-internal, c-external, abstraction-internal, abstraction-external). I don't care. but from the practical viewpoint this is inevitable. everybody that codes in pd is dependent on a set of such objects. please, please, I apply to all pd developers and users to agree on a set of higher level objects or "standard" externals. even if they don't get shipped with every distribution (although I think they should be shipped and incorporated into pd vanilla), everybody should be aware of a canon of objectclasses. this would save hours, if not days of patching time. putting cyclone in vanilla would be a good start. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Query Pd internal variables from a patch
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:41:18 +0100, Andy Farnell wrote: > So, is there a message that can be used to query the state of the audio > engine and return stuff like sample rate, channels? a few years ago, i implemented a message-based access to pd's audio backend ... possibly the patch is still somewhere around ... maybe you can still find it on the sf patch tracker? hth, tim -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tim.klingt.org Desperation is the raw material of drastic change. Only those who can leave behind everything they have ever believed in can hope to escape. William S. Burroughs ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:17 +0200 Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm reluctant to mention [counter] here, which also was coded many > times, unfortunatly in incompatible ways. I'm reluctant, because > [counter] is too basic to be included. I heartily agree. In fact I don't suggest any message domain changes to vanilla right now, just the missing signal processing operators. [counter] is a perfect example of something that should never be in core Pd, it is ill defined. Things like [tanh~] however are fundamentally defined, so there's no change of two conflicting implementations (unless one is wrong). -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex messages?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:53:44AM -0400, Michal Seta wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Michal Seta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Have you tried reading your SysEx with [midiin]? > > I just tried it. Seems to be working but I could not check the > integrity of the data although it appears fine on the surface. HTH. > Nothing shows up on the outputs of midiin or on sysexin. However, aseqdump shows that the data is definitely being pumped out by the keyboard, and making it into ALSA. Notes and CC's show up just fine in pd via notein, etc. May be a bug or misconfiguration in my specific setup of PD then. -ken ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] dialogue box for quit message
It's: ; pd verifyquit cheers Miller On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 09:25:47PM +0100, gilberto bernardes wrote: > > Dear PD users > > First my excuses for the silly question, but is quite important for me. > Can someone tell me if there is a way to quit PD through a message like (; pd > quit) with a dialogue box requesting if I really want to quit, and not > suddendly like it happens? > > Thanks in advance, > Gilberto Bernardes > > www.bernardes7.googlepages.com > > _ > Receba GR?TIS as mensagens do Messenger no seu celular quando voc? estiver > offline. Conhe?a o MSN Mobile! > http://mobile.live.com/signup/signup2.aspx?lc=pt-br > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Query Pd internal variables from a patch
An interesting question on the forum has me scratching my head here, perhaps someone knows this? "What's the best method to access to soundcard info and number of channels from a PD patch? I try to explain... I'm comunicating PD patch with Flash using OSC. How can I retry soundcard type, info, and number of channels from the PD patch and send to Flash app? Thanks a lot in advance." So, is there a message that can be used to query the state of the audio engine and return stuff like sample rate, channels? a. -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
> Then we should also add streaming... wait this is starting to sound a > bit like Pd-extended ;) Is this the pattern that this debate always follows when someose suggests adding essential and sensible changes to Pd vanilla? Are we unable to distinguish between gaps in the axiomatic object set and non-essential accesories? Why sabotage the process by making a mockery of it? > > .hc > > > > > > > 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,_ she said, > hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out > another pink-collar temp pool day. - _Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Am 22.04.2008 um 17:02 schrieb Andy Farnell: > > >> Note that I also think, the math objects (abs~, pow~ etc.) should be >> part of Pd, and probably symbol2list. > > Two of us doesn't make a concensus, but I've got the feeling most > would > agree. > Me for one, i have really missed pow~ or abs~ but i have been missing many other things. I don't see the necessity for the objects you mentioned when they can be built as abstractions using expr~ within seconds. How about an appendix to your book with a list of objects you used that are not included in pd-vanilla and the respective abstractions? gr~~~ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Andy Farnell wrote: > Right now my 'missing' list includes [z~], [abs~], [ln~], [log~], > [pow~], [tanh~], [cosh~] aren't you also referring to moog~ sometimes? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:38:25 +0200 Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Practically, it's looking more and more like I need to drop > > the wishful thinking that I can write a useful and easy to understand > > textbook based around vanilla Pd. > > And instead write an easy-to-understand explanation of how to deal > with the current situation re. externals, namespaces, nameclashes, > library-loading and path-settings when your book is about sound design > first and when a lot of these issues are still in flux? Good advice Frank, it helps me think this through. The problem is the many examples (you haven't seen even 1/10 of the book yet :) There are almost 500 pages of detailed sound design examples. Each is constructed so that the student can build and explore the sound from practical patches. I've carefully tested and documented every step of each practical, so even (apparently) small problems like this thing with [pow~] rock the foundations of everything I've done. I am torn between trying to provide a solid introduction to Pd in its current state and just assuming the students can work these things out for themselves. As you can imagine, what I want to avoid is lots of caveats and special cases. It's very disruptive to the teaching/understanding flow to have to keep explaining why something doesn't actually work (the way it should) as given. Especially when the reasons for this are not technical and there's no good reason for it to be that way. > I'd rather use > [expr~] a bit in the book, as your book will definitely outlast the > current situation (from what I've read so far). Well, for the fluid models I've had no choice, so [expr~] is already included along with a quick explanation because there is no [z~]. Unfortunately I've used [pow~] in dozens of other patches and it's quite unfeasible to go back and rewrite all of them and the accompanying text. It would take me weeks, and so I feel (on an emotional level) quite pissed off because adding [pow~] to vanilla Pd is only a matter of will and possibly 10 mins work to push it into the next build. If I'm going to aim this at Millers Pd rather than Extended then I feel it's only fair to have some movement making these small but vital improvements to vanilla. > Note that I also think, the math objects (abs~, pow~ etc.) should be > part of Pd, and probably symbol2list. Two of us doesn't make a concensus, but I've got the feeling most would agree. Can we make this a catalyst to get a definite commitment to patch up vanilla with the missing essentials? I still can't find the message, but I'm sure Miller said something about bringing Cyclone into vanilla. Can I please ask all the maths heads here to help define what would constitute a mathematically complete object set for audio signal processing? Right now my 'missing' list includes [z~], [abs~], [ln~], [log~], [pow~], [tanh~], [cosh~] Andy > > Ciao > -- > Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
On Apr 22, 2008, at 3:52 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > >> I therefore define "missing" as when the best answer on the table is >> "use [expr~]" or "use this equivalence made of more than 2 or 3 >> objects" > > What about vanilla-abstractions? Pd-vanilla currently only ships with > a handful of abstractions (rev123~.pd, hilbert~.pd) intended to be put > in the path. Some of the missing math objects could be included as > simple default abstractions, like [sin~]. Zexy went this route for > [abs~]. > > Another point to take into account could be how many times an > operation has been coded as an external before. [abs~] currently was > coded four times to my knowledge (markex, zexy, creb, cyclone). This > shows, that there is a demand for this operation, otherwise people > wouldn't have bothered to code it. So yes, [abs~] would be good to > have in Pd. > > I'm reluctant to mention [counter] here, which also was coded many > times, unfortunatly in incompatible ways. I'm reluctant, because > [counter] is too basic to be included. Call me elitist, but I believe > counting is such a basic and important operation, Pd users should't > learn how to count in Pd itself. > > Finally a motivation to include more binary objects may be efficiency. > Some [list]-abs are much slower than necessary ([list-idx], > [list-drip]) and these operations would be good to have in Pd as well. Then we should also add streaming... wait this is starting to sound a bit like Pd-extended ;) .hc 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex messages?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Michal Seta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Have you tried reading your SysEx with [midiin]? I just tried it. Seems to be working but I could not check the integrity of the data although it appears fine on the surface. HTH. -- ./MiS 514-344-0726 http://www.creazone.ca ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex messages?
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:09 AM, Ken Restivo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks! midiout appears to work. sysexin doesn't; I'm definitely sending > sysexes to the port, but nothing is coming out of the bottom of sysexin. Have you tried reading your SysEx with [midiin]? -- ./MiS 514-344-0726 http://www.creazone.ca ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] stk osx
hi, I discovered the experimental stk external in ggee. I tried to compile it first with the latest stk release (4.3.1) which seems to be incompatible, because some files are not more present (RtDuplex.h). but there is also another error, and that stays even after I switched back to stk 4.2.1. nyc-calling:experimental marius$ make -f Makefile.darwin g++ -ggdb -DPD -O3 -fPIC -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -W -Wshadow -Wno-unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -I/sw/include -I/Users/marius/devel/pd-rsync/pd-extended/externals/ggee/experimental/stk/include -I/Users/marius/devel/pd-rsync/pd-extended/pd/src -c stk.cpp /Users/marius/devel/pd-rsync/pd-extended/externals/ggee/experimental/stk/include/Mutex.h:65: error: ‘MUTEX’ does not name a type /Users/marius/devel/pd-rsync/pd-extended/externals/ggee/experimental/stk/include/Mutex.h:66: error: ‘CONDITION’ does not name a type /Users/marius/devel/pd-rsync/pd-extended/externals/ggee/experimental/stk/include/Thread.h:62: error: ‘THREAD_FUNCTION’ has not been declared /Users/marius/devel/pd-rsync/pd-extended/externals/ggee/experimental/stk/include/Thread.h:90: error: ‘THREAD_HANDLE’ does not name a type make: *** [stk.pd_darwin] Error 1 did someone get this working on osx already? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] streaming audio
Le Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:41:32 -0500, "Ben Carney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > Rob, > I have heard of ogg and mp3cast~ but have been unable to find them/ get them > to create in pd. any suggestions? are they part of the extended package? > > I'll start looking again, now that I know for sure that they are around. > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Rob Canning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > hi ben, > > not sure about mac but on linux i connect to an icecast server via darkice > > which is jack enabled > > alternately there is the oggcast~ and mp3cast~ objects > > cheers > > rob c You should have a look at the [pdp_theonice~] object and consort from the PDP library. Works fine to stream to an icecast server. ++ O. > > Ben Carney wrote: > > > > > hello all. > > > > > > I am working on an installation which may use live streaming audio. I > > > have at one point got streamin~ and streamout~ working nicely together. I > > > was however under very nice conditions. each computer was a g5 tower > > > running > > > tiger and the latest install of pd extended. > > > > > > I have since tried it a couple of other times and had a lot of trouble. > > > Pd would just freeze up the moment I tried to connect to the machine that > > > wanted to listen. > > > I am wondering if perhaps there is a problem when using streamin/out~ > > > with a wireless network? > > > > > > can anyone offer any tips of suggestions on some other streaming > > > objects/alternatives? > > > > > > > > > thanks much in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Ben C. > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] configuring ubuntu: hid readable + Intuos3
Hi Joao, I remember having the same problem a while back, and all it took to fix the wacom permissions was adding KERNEL=="event[0-9]*", MODE="0666" to your /etc/udev/rules.d/40-permissions.rules file. As for the RME Multiface, I used to have one and had so many problems with it that I sold it and bought an Edirol FA-101 for 1/4 the price. Its working great. But I think I was getting bad latency because my cardbus reader did not perform the right type of 'burst-mode' or something. regards, rich On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:51 AM, João Pais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [this mail was sent erroneously to the pd-dev list, insted to here] > > > Hi, > > I'm trying to configure my system to start using ubuntu (7.10). So far so > good, unbuntustudio, pd (both versions) and jack are working. > > I was looking into hid, but I don't have permission in udev to read > /dev/input. I saw that there were some posts on the list about this, but > no one was either clear enough/made for ubuntu (more for debian). I > thought, instead of loosing lots of time on myself and potentially > becoming frustrated and destryoing my system, I ask for 5 minutes to > someone else and potentially will waste only 1/2 hour later, and > everything will work. > Also in puredata.info there was nothing about this topic, even though a > great number of persons already went through these steps. I guess I'll do > a report once things are working, for the next sucke.., uh, person who > tries to venture into this. > > Below are my xorg.conf and a list of my current input devs (identified, as > I could with cat /dev/input/xxx). My questions would be: > - I'm using an ibm thinkpad with trackpoint & touchpad, + an usb wacom > Intous3. How can I get Pd (hid) to capture the Intuous3, without the > intous3 controlling the cursor? [The trackpoint is using the "mice" > driver, which apparently is wrong] > - is it possible for the intuos3 to behave like stated in pd, but like a > normal mouse controller outside of pd? I guess not, but just wanted to > know. > - did anyone got the side pads and buttons of the Intuos3 to work? I saw > few documentation in the net about it. I got the pads on my xorg.conf, but > I have no program that can test it for now. > > I guess that might be it for now. Thanks for you r help. > > Joao > > > PS: when this is finished, my next step will be the rme multiface. are > there any good pages to look at that? > > > -- XORG.CONF -- > > # xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file) > # > # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, > using > # values from the debconf database. > # > # Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page. > # (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.) > # > # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades > *only* > # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg > # package. > # > # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically > updated > # again, run the following command: > # sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg > > Section "Files" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Keyboard" > Driver "kbd" > Option "CoreKeyboard" > Option "XkbRules" "xorg" > Option "XkbModel" "pc105" > Option "XkbLayout" "de" > EndSection > > # Konfiguration für Thinkpad Synaptic Mittelknopf > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Configured Mouse" > Driver "mouse" > Option "CorePointer" > Option "Device""/dev/input/mice" > Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" > Option "EmulateWheel" "true" > Option "EmulateWheelButton""2" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Synaptics Touchpad" > Driver "synaptics" > Option "SendCoreEvents""true" > Option "Device""/dev/psaux" > Option "Protocol" "auto-dev" > Option "HorizEdgeScroll" "0" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "wacom" > Identifier "stylus" > Option "Device""/dev/input/wacom" > Option "Type" "stylus" > Option "USB" "on" > # Option"ForceDevice" "ISDV4"# Tablet PC ONLY > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Driver "wacom" > Identifier "eraser" > Option "Device""/dev/input/wacom" > Option "Type" "eraser" > Option "USB" "on" > # Option
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > I therefore define "missing" as when the best answer on the table is > "use [expr~]" or "use this equivalence made of more than 2 or 3 > objects" What about vanilla-abstractions? Pd-vanilla currently only ships with a handful of abstractions (rev123~.pd, hilbert~.pd) intended to be put in the path. Some of the missing math objects could be included as simple default abstractions, like [sin~]. Zexy went this route for [abs~]. Another point to take into account could be how many times an operation has been coded as an external before. [abs~] currently was coded four times to my knowledge (markex, zexy, creb, cyclone). This shows, that there is a demand for this operation, otherwise people wouldn't have bothered to code it. So yes, [abs~] would be good to have in Pd. I'm reluctant to mention [counter] here, which also was coded many times, unfortunatly in incompatible ways. I'm reluctant, because [counter] is too basic to be included. Call me elitist, but I believe counting is such a basic and important operation, Pd users should't learn how to count in Pd itself. Finally a motivation to include more binary objects may be efficiency. Some [list]-abs are much slower than necessary ([list-idx], [list-drip]) and these operations would be good to have in Pd as well. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Cyclone in vanilla?
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:17:09 +0200 > Derek Holzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > no worries, just thinking practically rather than wishfully ;-) > > :) always appreciate a practical attitude > > Practically, it's looking more and more like I need to drop > the wishful thinking that I can write a useful and easy to understand > textbook based around vanilla Pd. And instead write an easy-to-understand explanation of how to deal with the current situation re. externals, namespaces, nameclashes, library-loading and path-settings when your book is about sound design first and when a lot of these issues are still in flux? I'd rather use [expr~] a bit in the book, as your book will definitely outlast the current situation (from what I've read so far). Oh, and when [abs~] becomes part of Pd-vanilla, patches using [markex/abs~], [zexy/abs~], [cyclone/abs~], [creab/abs~] are in danger. Note that I also think, the math objects (abs~, pow~ etc.) should be part of Pd, and probably symbol2list. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
