Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:39:18 -0500 From: Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PD] better tabread4~ To: Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED], pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fucked up here. To get a C2 curve you may need to solve an equation system covering the whole table (!). Anyhow, a C1 system is fine enough for most uses, and it would be already much better than pd's. The thing is that you can only match the 2nd derivatives if you let the 1st derivatives just match but freely float. Then there will be one curve going through all points of the whole table supposing that the 2nd derivative is zero at the beginning and end of the table. Clearly this is a wholly different game because you need to compute a 2nd table to remember what the 1st derivatives are supposed to be and then you can't change anything in the 1st table without recomputing the 2nd table from scratch, or something. I get what you're saying now. I had to read it a couple times through to see :) You're referring to piecewise cubic polynomials, right? We would wind up with an overdetermined system of equations if we didn't float the 1st *and* 2nd derivatives, which would come out as a linear algebra problem of the size of the table. but I think it gets even worse. There could be a non-zero null space to the problem. There are infinite solutions to interpolate a table full of zeros, with these conditions. What a mess :) It's also bad because while a natural cubic spline is conceivable for a tabread (fixing the 2nd derivative to zero on both ends, reading in and keeping all the derived data in a buffer somewhere), you might need a different kind of spline (periodic?) for a tabosc~, and it shouldn't work at all for a vd~ since there is no codified beginning or end to the table (yes-no?). or we could set x[0],x[1] and x'[0]=(x[1]-x[-1])/2 and x'[1]=(x[2]-x[0])/2 again, 4 constraints, cubic polynomial, etc... Seems reasonable. What I want has to have constraints on x'[0] and x'[1]. Those would be a possibility. The problem is that it uses a gap of 2 samples instead of one, so it uses a blurry derivative, but the alternative is to have to pick between forward-difference and backwards-difference. The blurry derivative happens to be the average of the 1-sample forward-difference and backward-difference. Which is equivalent to the slope between the 2-sample gap. This would have another advantage over forward- or backward-differences such that going through the table in reverse would produce a symmetric result. (or actually, would it matter after all, since the four points are in the same order whether you're going forward or backward through the table... ?) and x''[0]=x[1]-2*x[0]+x[-1] and x''[1]=x[2]-2*x[1]+x[0] 6 constraints, 5th degree polynomial I think that the replacement for tabread4~ should be another cubic, so that it takes almost the same time to compute it. What I said about C2 was based on a mistaken reading of webpages trying to refresh myself on splines. I should've been more careful. Yeah, a cubic polynomial makes the most sense for small changes. I haven't ever heard of people interpolating 4 points with a 5th degree polynomial but I think I could make it work The following bit of code might work to that end as a test, borrowing Cyrille's general notation: cminusb = c-b; aminusd = a-d; a0 = aminusd + 3.0 * cminusb; a1 = -2.5f * aminusd - 7.5f * cminusb; a2 = 1.5f * aminusd + 4.5f * cminusb; a3 = 0.5f * (c + a) - b; a4 = 0.5f * (c - a); a5 = b; *out++ = a0*frac+a1)*frac+a2)*frac+a3)*frac+a4)*frac+a5; The variables would have to be declared further up, obviously. Also, the compiler should optimize the a5 definition out and just use b (right?), so the above might be clearer and more explicit from a formal standpoint. I'm very prone to algebraic mistakes (especially on friday nights), so if someone else is interested you can check my work and see if you arrive at the same result (x''[n] = x[n-1] -2*x[n] + x[n+1] , x'[n] = 0.5*(x[n+1] - x[n-1]) for both x[0] and x[1] ) -- the result may be able to be further optimized as well due to some redundancies in the coefficients. Following the naming scheme of the other tests, this might be [tabread4fi~] or some such (fi for fifth-order-polynomial). As this line of experimentation proceeds, it might make sense to develop a set of benchmarks both for quality and performance. One place to start might be to test the residual error between all of the new and old [tabosc~] objects running through a cosine table and an [osc~] with the same frequency and phase, trying out different respective table sizes, and then further test with various cosinesum combinations. Of course the ear test will probably determine things more, especially with sampled data, but
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could pull out the pidip.pd_linux and use it with a different version of Pd-extended. Ok, I downloaded, patched and compiled pdp succesfully, however the problem is still there (pd crashes when trying to use the webcam in pdp). However (begin new to video) I discovered that GEM also has some video processing stuff. Would that be a way to go? What *can't* I do in GEM that would be possible either pdp? Finally the image has distorted colors (skin is blue, for instance) when used under GEM. I tried the cam in other software (for instance skype) and it's fine. Any ideas what to do about this? -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
Atte André Jensen wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could pull out the pidip.pd_linux and use it with a different version of Pd-extended. Ok, I downloaded, patched and compiled pdp succesfully, however the problem is still there (pd crashes when trying to use the webcam in pdp). However (begin new to video) I discovered that GEM also has some video processing stuff. Would that be a way to go? What *can't* I do in GEM that would be possible either pdp? loads of things...well, i don't know; i would ask the question the other way around: does Gem/pdp/gf/... can do everything you want? anyhow, the good thing is that there is gem2pdp (and vice versa) bridge, so you can combine the powers of the various libs. Finally the image has distorted colors (skin is blue, for instance) when used under GEM. I tried the cam in other software (for instance skype) and it's fine. Any ideas what to do about this? hmm, do i remember which version of Gem you are talking about? apart from this: - simple solution; use [pix_colormatrix] to rotate the colourspace till the channels match (red=red, green=green, blue=blue) - non-portable solution: in line Pixes/videoV4L.cpp:160 change the fromBGRA() to frmRGBA() and recompile Gem. fmgasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] more eee trouble (on xandros)
On Jun 27, 2008, at 10:07 PM, potax flan wrote: sudo apt-get -f install you mean just like that, without specifying nothing else? r Yes, -f means fix .hc I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pdp_v4l2 with MacBook Pro 3rd iSight on Ubuntu (success)
Hey, Sergi and I just figured out how to use the macbook pro iSight camera with pdp_v4l2, so I thought I just post here how for the record: By default the iSight with pdp_v4l2 seems to use MJPEG colorspace, so I was getting a pdp_v4l2: unsupported color model error. We sent the [format 1( to get the YUYV space, as reported in the Pd window, and it works! .hc I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Spotlight Importer for OS X
On Jun 27, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:12 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2008, at 2:23 AM, Luke Iannini wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:34 PM, Luke Iannini wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 20, 2008, at 1:55 PM, Luke Iannini wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does this work at all on 10.4/Tiger? Yes, it's configured by default to work with both 10.4 and 10.5. Any idea whether it would cause problems on 10.3? That's not a make- or-break thing, but it would be nice if it could still work on 10.3. As for including the Info.plist changes in v0-40, it would need to be throughly tested before including it. Currently, there are only a couple outstanding bugs that need to be fixed for this release (AFAIK), so I am really hesitant to include something totally new. According to this http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2005/ qa1406.html the public.plain-text UTI we're using existed in 10.3. Also, this seems to be a transitional document for 10.310.4, and doesn't include any callouts except: Note: UTIs are available in Mac OS X v10.3 Panther and later. Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger added many new types and integrated support throughout the operating system. So I think it won't be a problem for the keys in the plist, and in the future, 10.3 should just ignore the Library/Spotlight/PureData.mdimporter file just as it would ignore any other file it didn't recognize in the bundle. Ok, sounds like it is worth trying to add the Info.plist UTI stuff to this release. Feel free to add it now to branches/pd-extended/ v0-40, but please test it. .hc Yo, sorry I didn't read that closely and thought you were comfortable with adding the whole kit n' kaboodle, sorry about that. It just seems to be a big unknown, and adding a big unknown in the last days before releasing has bitten me before. Which reminds me: Could you give a specific example of what the Spotlight Importer does? I don't quite get it. Sure - Spotlight searches not only filenames but file contents for your search terms, so it would pull up Theory and Techniques of Electronic Music's PDF if you searched for Fourier, for example (since a PDF Spotlight importer is built in to OS X). So, with the Pd file importer, it will pull up not only I01.Fourier.analysis.pd, but I02.Hann.window.pd, I03.resynthesis.pd, etc. as well, since they contain the word Fourier in their comments.* It also works with objects, so you can find every patch containing fiddle~. And, as I mentioned, you can use it to implement, e.g. a TODO/FIXME tracker by creating a smart folder (aka saved search) that searches for Pd files containing those words. Thanks, that was very helpful. It makes sense to me. *It will only find files if they're outside of the Pd bundle, so I guess that's a drawback (but I'll see if I can find a way to force it to search within the bundle) They just added these bundle restrictions in 10.3 or maybe 10.4. They are a pain. I have seen some apps that allow you to use an OpenPanel to freely navigate into the .app bundle. I have tried to find how to do that for Pd, but no luck. Maybe you'll have better luck... Cheers Luke (and by the way, this is a common practice lest you think I'm doing something nutty : ); Apple includes source code importers for c, obj-c, ruby, python etc when you install XCode, and most OS X apps with a custom file format include a Spotlight importer. The next step would be to add real Quick Look support to show a preview of the patch's appearance as the icon and QL view (right now it just shows the plaintext version of the pd file). Anyone have any insight on that? Perhaps just a separate Tcl generator would work... That sounds like a big project, but would be very cool. Perhaps you could tap into Pd's print support, it outputs a .ps Postscript file. .hc .hc As for building it, how do you build it yourself? That's usually a good starting point for adding it to the auto-build. If it is an xcode project, you can use the command line tool xcodebuild. Yo, I just built in with the build button : ). I like buttons... So yea, I have the project. Looks like it builds aok with xcodebuild, thanks for the tip. Where should I put the project folder? Good question. The first place I thought of is packages/ darwin_app since it is only for things related to the Pd.app for Mac OS X. Maybe: packages/darwin_app/spotlight_importer Then it probalby makes sense to make a separate 'spotlight_importer:' target in packages/darwin_app/Makefile to build and install it. .hc Will do. Cheers Luke
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
Matt Barber a écrit : ... The following bit of code might work to that end as a test, borrowing Cyrille's general notation: cminusb = c-b; aminusd = a-d; a0 = aminusd + 3.0 * cminusb; a1 = -2.5f * aminusd - 7.5f * cminusb; a2 = 1.5f * aminusd + 4.5f * cminusb; a3 = 0.5f * (c + a) - b; a4 = 0.5f * (c - a); a5 = b; *out++ = a0*frac+a1)*frac+a2)*frac+a3)*frac+a4)*frac+a5; ok, i'll try that. but i don't think adjusting the 2nd derivative is the best thing to do. for me, having a 6 point interpolation would be more important. well, we will see... The variables would have to be declared further up, obviously. Also, the compiler should optimize the a5 definition out and just use b (right?), so the above might be clearer and more explicit from a formal standpoint. I'm very prone to algebraic mistakes (especially on friday nights), so if someone else is interested you can check my work and see if you arrive at the same result (x''[n] = x[n-1] -2*x[n] + x[n+1] , x'[n] = 0.5*(x[n+1] - x[n-1]) for both x[0] and x[1] ) -- the result may be able to be further optimized as well due to some redundancies in the coefficients. Following the naming scheme of the other tests, this might be [tabread4fi~] or some such (fi for fifth-order-polynomial). As this line of experimentation proceeds, it might make sense to develop a set of benchmarks both for quality and performance. One place to start might be to test the residual error between all of the new and old [tabosc~] objects running through a cosine table and an [osc~] with the same frequency and phase, trying out different respective table sizes, and then further test with various cosinesum combinations. yes, a benchmarking tool would be good to make. but i would not use osc~ as a reference, as it's output come from a table interpolation. (if i did understand pd code, osc~ comes from a linear interpolation of a 512 points table). (btw, if the interpolation lib is extended to a better audio synthesis lib, then a better osc~ can be add there to) the more i digg in pd audio code, the more i think it's important to make this kind of lib. But it would need lot's more work that i can do. and i also don't know much on this subject... Of course the ear test will probably determine things more, especially with sampled data, but it's still a little unclear to me exactly what these interpolations are supposed to do when the waveform has transients and discontinuities among the samples -- e.g. what bandwidth should result from moving through a table that's filled with white noise, or what should happen when moving slowly through a table that's filled with alternating 1 -1, or what should a snare-drum or bongo hit sound like at a fifth the speed? These seem to me to be more a matter of taste and interpretation than the cosine tests. i personally consider that the interpolation should not add harmonics, and should remove non audible harmonics. i.e : a noise with freq from 20Hz to 20kHz shift 2 octave lower should result in a noise with freq from 20Hz to 5KHz. but it's ok for me if the result is from 5Hz to 5KHz. shifting it 2 octave higher should result in a 80Hz-20KHz frequency on the signal. (freq from 20KHz to 80Kz should be removed to kill alliasing effect. a table filled with alternate -1 and 1 can be seen as a 22KHz sinus (@ 44100 Hz sampling rate). shifting it higher should result in a null signal with an anti aliased interpolation. shifting it lower should result in a pure sinus wave. this is my opinion. i test this, and tabread4c~ is very close to the sinus wave, while tabread4~ is closer to a triangle wave. best cyrille Thanks, Matt ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Midi File Playback
Hi List I would like to play back a midi file and i am using seq for that. It looks like xeq is not under active development any more and thus not a good choice for OSX.. Seq works fine so far ... but...what about playback speed ?? Do i have to send a MIDI - metro message via midiin ?? As another way i tried to use qlist (after having converted the midifile to a textfile, but that seems to be an overcomplicated way) Any suggestions ?? Thanks Luigi --- Luigi Rensinghoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype:gigischinke ichat:gigicarlo ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
Atte André Jensen wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could pull out the pidip.pd_linux and use it with a different version of Pd-extended. Ok, I downloaded, patched and compiled pdp succesfully, however the problem is still there (pd crashes when trying to use the webcam in pdp). did you try to use pdp_v4l2 ? this symptom seems very reproducable with pdp _v4l ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
ydegoyon wrote: Atte André Jensen wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You could pull out the pidip.pd_linux and use it with a different version of Pd-extended. Ok, I downloaded, patched and compiled pdp succesfully, however the problem is still there (pd crashes when trying to use the webcam in pdp). did you try to use pdp_v4l2 ? and there might be a confusion here, the one from artefacte was an early release, i'm speaking here of the one included in pidip and in the latests builds, don't have to patch anything, it's in the build. this symptom seems very reproducable with pdp _v4l ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
ydegoyon wrote: did you try to use pdp_v4l2 ? this symptom seems very reproducable with pdp _v4l This is with pdp.pd_linux from pdp-0.12.5-test-7.tar.gz patched with pdp-0.12.5-test-7-v4l2.patch and copied (pdp.pd_linux) on top of regular file in /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pdp.pd_linux -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
ydegoyon wrote: and there might be a confusion here, Sure I'm confused. Maybe it would be nice to know exactly what to install. -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ratts object on OSX
moin dh, yep, all of these objects are defined by the ratts library. Just to get the obligatory question out of the way, are you starting pd with -path /my/externs/dir -lib ratts? and does /my/externs/dir contain ratts.pd_WHATEVER ? (assumedly ratts.pd_darwin for osx) ? If so, do you see a message like: ratts: Realtime Analog Text-To-Speech externals v0.07 by Bryan Jurish ratts: Based on text-to-speech code by Nick Ing-Simmons and Jon Iles ratts: and PD external code by Orm Finnendahl and Travis Newhouse ratts: compiled by USER on DATE on the pd console at startup? marmosets, Bryan On 2008-06-28 01:39:11, dh254 [EMAIL PROTECTED] appears to have written: hmmm, when i add just the one ratts~ object to a new patch, I get the console output below, so it seems like maybe none of the objects are being created? ratts ... couldn't create klatt~ mspf 5 ... couldn't create rattshread $1-dict ... couldn't create number2text ... couldn't create guessphones ... couldn't create phones2holmes ... couldn't create rattstok ... couldn't create toupper ... couldn't create spellout ... couldn't create holmes ... couldn't create when I do a find last error, I get: no findable error yet -DH -- Bryan Jurish There is *always* one more bug. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
ydegoyon wrote: puès, the artefacte page is obsolete and everything is in svn now, thus in the latests builds automagically These ones: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2008-06-28/? I installed the one for my system (ubuntu gutsy), and unfortunately both problems remain: 1) Pd crashes when using pdp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ pd /usr/lib/pd/doc/examples/pdp/example01.pd tk scaling is 1.18830409357 init : Avifile RELEASE-0.7.47-070916-12:47-4.1.3 init : Available CPU flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 tm pbe up bts est tm2 init : 1600.00 MHz Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1600MHz detected - At this point i clicked the bng -- X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) Major opcode of failed request: 143 (GLX) Minor opcode of failed request: 5 (X_GLXMakeCurrent) Serial number of failed request: 32 Current serial number in output stream: 32 pd_gui: pd process exited [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ 2) GEM shows funny colors (blue skin for example) in /usr/lib/pd/doc/examples/Gem/04.video/00.SimpleVideo.pd This is (now) with http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2008-06-28/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080628-ubuntu-gutsy-i386.deb under ubuntu/7.10 on an IBM T41 (PentiumM) laptop with ati graphics card: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ lspci | grep Rad 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M7 LW [Radeon Mobility 7500] Any help appreciated! -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
IOhannes m zmölnig wrote: loads of things...well, i don't know; i would ask the question the other way around: does Gem/pdp/gf/... can do everything you want? I don't know what I want, maybe because I'm new to video. So I hope to play around and get some ideas. But right now, for my first idea, I need to translate something on a videofeed into OSC messages + project the video (maybe with some simple explanatory overlay for the audience to better understand what's happening) with a projector. I have som starting ideas about what that something might be. Something like how red is the picture, from 0-1, how much activity is in the image, from 0-1. My system, currently implemented in ChucK is easy to configure to do something useful with these messages. -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
legends of the pd-list gag department: Mattieu: We need a state-saving object class named [jesus]. Iohannes: this might be the reason why i prefer [lop~] over [cool_filter~] and Pd over reactor. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Midi File Playback
Luigi Rensinghoff wrote: Hi List I would like to play back a midi file and i am using seq for that. It looks like xeq is not under active development any more and thus not a good choice for OSX.. Seq works fine so far ... but...what about playback speed ?? Do i have to send a MIDI - metro message via midiin ?? As another way i tried to use qlist (after having converted the midifile to a textfile, but that seems to be an overcomplicated way) Any suggestions ?? You could try [mrpeach/midifile]. Its playback speed is controlled by bangs, usually from a [metro]. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pdp_v4l2 with MacBook Pro 3rd iSight on Ubuntu (success)
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Hey, Sergi and I just figured out how to use the macbook pro iSight camera with pdp_v4l2, so I thought I just post here how for the record: By default the iSight with pdp_v4l2 seems to use MJPEG colorspace, so I was getting a pdp_v4l2: unsupported color model error. We sent the [format 1( to get the YUYV space, as reported in the Pd window, and it works! Since I'm also strugling with pdp_v4l, I'm wondering: should I change pdp_v4l to pdp_v4l2 in /usr/lib/pd/doc/examples/pdp/example01.pd? I tried, and got ... couldn't create, but I'm thinking maybe I'm not even using pdp_v4l2... -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pdp_v4l2 with MacBook Pro 3rd iSight on Ubuntu (success)
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Atte André Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Hey, Sergi and I just figured out how to use the macbook pro iSight camera with pdp_v4l2, so I thought I just post here how for the record: By default the iSight with pdp_v4l2 seems to use MJPEG colorspace, so I was getting a pdp_v4l2: unsupported color model error. We sent the [format 1( to get the YUYV space, as reported in the Pd window, and it works! Since I'm also strugling with pdp_v4l, I'm wondering: should I change pdp_v4l to pdp_v4l2 in /usr/lib/pd/doc/examples/pdp/example01.pd? would make sense puttin both in there - cause some cameras work with pdp_v4l other with pdp_v4l2 peace n'roll olsen I tried, and got ... couldn't create, but I'm thinking maybe I'm not even using pdp_v4l2... -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Planet Pluto bleibt! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pdp_v4l2 with MacBook Pro 3rd iSight on Ubuntu (success)
olsen wolf wrote: would make sense puttin both in there - cause some cameras work with pdp_v4l other with pdp_v4l2 So since I get ... couldn't create after changing to pdp_v4l2, this means that I'm not using pdp_v4l2 in the first place, right? I thought maybe pdp_v4l in the nightly build incorporated everything... -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Midi File Playback
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Luigi Rensinghoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seq works fine so far ... but...what about playback speed ?? According to Max documentation: tick After seq has received a start -1 message, it waits for tick messages to advance its clock. In order to play the sequence at its original recorded tempo, seq must receive 48 tick messages per second. This is equivalent to 24 ticks per quarter note (the standard for a MIDI Clock message) at a tempo of 120MM. By using tick messages to advance the sequencer, you can vary the tempo of playback or synchronize seq with another timing source (such as incoming MIDI Clock messages). Hopefully that functionality is implemented in the pd version of [seq] (I did not check) The Max/MSP documentation come in handy sometimes and it's freely available from cycling74.com. http://cycling74.com/download/maxmsp463doc.zip cheers. -- ./MiS 514-344-0726 http://www.creazone.ca ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
ola, 1) Pd crashes when using pdp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ pd /usr/lib/pd/doc/examples/pdp/example01.pd tk scaling is 1.18830409357 init : Avifile RELEASE-0.7.47-070916-12:47-4.1.3 init : Available CPU flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 tm pbe up bts est tm2 init : 1600.00 MHz Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1600MHz detected - At this point i clicked the bng -- X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) Major opcode of failed request: 143 (GLX) Minor opcode of failed request: 5 (X_GLXMakeCurrent) Serial number of failed request: 32 Current serial number in output stream: 32 pd_gui: pd process exited [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ this has nothing to do with your cam here, but with the output object [pdp_glx] try to change it for a [pdp_xv] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] getting started with webcam/pdp
ydegoyon wrote: try to change it for a [pdp_xv] Great that works. Thanks alot! Isn't glx supposed to work? I guess xv is (much?) slower, right. So I should struggle to get glx working, right? Any ideas in this direction? For instance, is glx working for other people running linux? -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 7:43 AM, cyrille henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Barber a écrit : ... The following bit of code might work to that end as a test, borrowing Cyrille's general notation: cminusb = c-b; aminusd = a-d; a0 = aminusd + 3.0 * cminusb; a1 = -2.5f * aminusd - 7.5f * cminusb; a2 = 1.5f * aminusd + 4.5f * cminusb; a3 = 0.5f * (c + a) - b; a4 = 0.5f * (c - a); a5 = b; *out++ = a0*frac+a1)*frac+a2)*frac+a3)*frac+a4)*frac+a5; ok, i'll try that. but i don't think adjusting the 2nd derivative is the best thing to do. for me, having a 6 point interpolation would be more important. well, we will see... This would work, as well. Changing the coefficient order to match the previous code (sorry I bollixed that up before). a4 and a3 are simple ratios of a5, but keeping a2 as explicitly the fourth coefficient... dropping a0, aminusd, and cminusb: a5 = a - d + 3.0f * (c - b); a2 = 0.5f * (c + a) - b; a1 = 0.5f * (c - a); *out++ = a5*frac-2.5f*a5)*frac+1.5*a5)*frac+a2)*frac+a1)*frac+b; I count 11 adds and 10 multiplies, vs. 9 +'s and 7 *'s in the original Lagrange algorithm in Pd, and 10 +'s and 9 *'s in the third order Hermite example. I don't know if it's as simple as all that, though, but it would seem to be on at least a similar order of performance. BTW, the following for the C1 interpolation might be slightly more efficient (I left the original line commented out): a1 = 0.5f * (c - a); /* a2 = a - 2.5 * b + 2.f * c - 0.5f * d; */ a3 = 0.5f * (d - a) + 1.5f * (b - c); a2 = a - b + a1 - a3; *out++ = ((a3 * frac + a2) * frac + a1) * frac + b; . 10 +'s 6 *'s Matt ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pdp_v4l2 with MacBook Pro 3rd iSight on Ubuntu (success)
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008, Atte André Jensen wrote: olsen wolf wrote: would make sense puttin both in there - cause some cameras work with pdp_v4l other with pdp_v4l2 So since I get ... couldn't create after changing to pdp_v4l2, this means that I'm not using pdp_v4l2 in the first place, right? I thought maybe pdp_v4l in the nightly build incorporated everything... -- peace, love harmony Atte http://atte.dk | http://myspace.com/attejensen http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk It is not included in the 0.40.3 Pd-extended. You can get it here for Intel GNU/Linux: http://eds.org/~hans/pdp_v4l2.pd_linux.bz2 I compiled it on Ubuntu/Harby, but it should work anywhere, I think. .hc zen \ \ \[D[D[D[D___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] better tabread4~
On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 7:43 AM, cyrille henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Barber a écrit : As this line of experimentation proceeds, it might make sense to develop a set of benchmarks both for quality and performance. One place to start might be to test the residual error between all of the new and old [tabosc~] objects running through a cosine table and an [osc~] with the same frequency and phase, trying out different respective table sizes, and then further test with various cosinesum combinations. yes, a benchmarking tool would be good to make. but i would not use osc~ as a reference, as it's output come from a table interpolation. (if i did understand pd code, osc~ comes from a linear interpolation of a 512 points table). (btw, if the interpolation lib is extended to a better audio synthesis lib, then a better osc~ can be add there to) the more i digg in pd audio code, the more i think it's important to make this kind of lib. But it would need lot's more work that i can do. and i also don't know much on this subject... I did not know that about [osc~] -- I'm still going through the code, but [osc~] has often felt kind of rough around the edges. I suppose that the error in various interpolation schemes from the tabosc objects would begin to converge with larger tables, so it's possible something like that could be used for the benchmark instead. With appropriate frequencies there could probably be some interesting fft tests as well. I've always liked the sound of SC3's SinOsc ugen... it might be worth looking through that code to see how it differs from [osc~]'s. Thanks, Matt ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd-extended 0.40.3 ui performance
hey folks, the new UI in 0.40-3 extended looks super nice - but on my machine (dual i386 2.0Ghz / MacOsx 10.4) it seriously degrades UI performance, especially with Graph on Parent objects. for example, loading a small GOP abstraction with four bang buttons, two checkboxes, a number box, a slider and a vu meter takes a noticeable amount of time with 0.40.3-extended, but happens instantaneously with 0.40.2-vanilla. dragging this abstraction around the window suffers as well: on 0.40.3-extended when dragging this object the performance drops down to about 10fps, whereas on 0.40.2-vanilla i can drag at what seems to be the full framerate of my system (there's a bit of mouse lag though). it seems such a shame, because it really is much nicer to work with, visually, but the sluggishness when i get sizeable patches going is going to keep me on 0.40.2-vanilla with its old fashiouned ui. i assume the culprit is Tcl/Tk. i ask again: why are we using Tcl/Tk to implement the UI part of a **graphical** dataflow language? Tcl/Tk is a user-interface toolkit, but we're asking it be a graphics platform, and it just can't hack it. -- damian stewart | +31 6 5902 5782 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.40.3 ui performance
Other people have reported this, but I haven't been able to reproduce it. Please create a bug report in the tracker and submit an example patch. (For whatever reason, no one has done that yet, despite my requests). Then I'll take a look at it. .hc On Jun 28, 2008, at 11:20 PM, Damian Stewart wrote: hey folks, the new UI in 0.40-3 extended looks super nice - but on my machine (dual i386 2.0Ghz / MacOsx 10.4) it seriously degrades UI performance, especially with Graph on Parent objects. for example, loading a small GOP abstraction with four bang buttons, two checkboxes, a number box, a slider and a vu meter takes a noticeable amount of time with 0.40.3-extended, but happens instantaneously with 0.40.2-vanilla. dragging this abstraction around the window suffers as well: on 0.40.3-extended when dragging this object the performance drops down to about 10fps, whereas on 0.40.2-vanilla i can drag at what seems to be the full framerate of my system (there's a bit of mouse lag though). it seems such a shame, because it really is much nicer to work with, visually, but the sluggishness when i get sizeable patches going is going to keep me on 0.40.2-vanilla with its old fashiouned ui. i assume the culprit is Tcl/Tk. i ask again: why are we using Tcl/Tk to implement the UI part of a **graphical** dataflow language? Tcl/Tk is a user-interface toolkit, but we're asking it be a graphics platform, and it just can't hack it. -- damian stewart | +31 6 5902 5782 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.40.3 ui performance
Also, I forgot to mention, could you try a very old auto-build to see if that has the same slowness: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ If you find that the oldest is not slow, then narrowing down the date range would help a lot. .hc On Jun 28, 2008, at 11:20 PM, Damian Stewart wrote: hey folks, the new UI in 0.40-3 extended looks super nice - but on my machine (dual i386 2.0Ghz / MacOsx 10.4) it seriously degrades UI performance, especially with Graph on Parent objects. for example, loading a small GOP abstraction with four bang buttons, two checkboxes, a number box, a slider and a vu meter takes a noticeable amount of time with 0.40.3-extended, but happens instantaneously with 0.40.2-vanilla. dragging this abstraction around the window suffers as well: on 0.40.3-extended when dragging this object the performance drops down to about 10fps, whereas on 0.40.2-vanilla i can drag at what seems to be the full framerate of my system (there's a bit of mouse lag though). it seems such a shame, because it really is much nicer to work with, visually, but the sluggishness when i get sizeable patches going is going to keep me on 0.40.2-vanilla with its old fashiouned ui. i assume the culprit is Tcl/Tk. i ask again: why are we using Tcl/Tk to implement the UI part of a **graphical** dataflow language? Tcl/Tk is a user-interface toolkit, but we're asking it be a graphics platform, and it just can't hack it. -- damian stewart | +31 6 5902 5782 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released
10 minutes to load a patch that used to take 10-15 seconds!! also, a minor bug: when i first opened the application, i couldn't access the preferences without opening an untitled patch first. and then, when i added my abstractions directory to the paths, pd froze. i did a 'force quit', and reopened pd, and the new path seems to have been added ok though. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
