Re: [PD] making scales from frequency values

[Derek Holzer]

There seems to be some disagreement in whether the original poster wants 
his partials quantized to notes within an existing scale (I assume he 
does not) or whether he wants to preserve the exact ratios of partials 
to fundamental (which I assume he does). Does [tunetof] do both?


D.

Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hallo,
Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:

Still not entirely sure I know what you're after, so at the risk of  
repeating myself, use the (just intoned) intervals here:


1, 1:1-unison;
2, 135:128-major_chroma;
3, 9:8-major_second;
4, 6:5-minor_third;
5, 5:4-major_third;
6, 4:3-perfect_fourth;
7, 45:32-diatonic_fourth;
8, 3:2-perfect_fifth;
9, 8:5-minor_sixth;
10, 27:16-pyth_major_sixth;
11, 9:5-minor_seventh;
12, 15:8-major_seventh;
13, 2:1-octave;

I.e. major third = 6:5, and 6 divided by 5 is 1.2, so to transpose up a  
major third, multiply original frequency by 1.2.


Or, 5 divided by 6 is 0.8333, so multiply by that to transpose down  
a major third. Or cook up something with [expr] that does the job more  
precisely, like [expr f$1 * (5/6)] etc etc...


Or use the [tunetof] abstraction that is a just intonation version of [mtof]
and can load (after conversion) any of the thousands scale descriptions written
with Scala: http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

tunetof is in the svn in /abstractions/footils/tunetof

Ciao


--
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: 
http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::

---Oblique Strategy # 202:
"Back up a few steps.
What else could you have done?"

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[PD] Fwd: PD t-shirts

[harris_pilton]

just sent it to hc. sorry.

Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:


hi there,

is anybody still into the tshirt thing? i think i could help with  
the printing. i'm not good at thinking of designs though. bang-until  
was quite common-sense - afaik there hasnt been lot response on that!?
i wanted to bring up the topic again  - basically because i want a  
pd-tshirt too :)

cheers
Am 06.04.2009 um 06:23 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:



I like the DIY way.  It would be great if people organized their  
own fundraisers and bounties.  I think that fits in well with the  
anarchic nature of Pd.


There are things like cafepress.com for t-shirts and the like.  It  
is more expensive than doing it yourself, probably, but its  
easier.  It would be nice to see more than one Pd t-shirt  
available.  I'd like bang-until and that cake, for example.


.hc


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:


Thanks Kyle,

That's much more in line with what I'm looking to do.  I also cannot
afford to go to PdCon given that it's all the way in Brazil, and I'm
sure the majority of Pd users are in the same boat.  A documentation
bounty seems like a good way to encourage people to document, and  
give

them a way of justifying their time.  And, I agree, probably more
worthwhile than paying half of one person's ticket to Sao Paulo.

In regards to designs, and printing:

I'm thinking it might be cheapest (allowing more money to be raised)
for me to print the shirts myself.. I just need to come up with a
solid price estimate in the next couple days.  Also, this seems more
in line with the do-it-yourself attitude of Pd than, say, e- 
mailing a

.Gif file to an internet service and letting it all go through them.

I have  couple designs I've drawn up myself, and a few have been
submitted to me via this list.  So, hopefully by the end of the
weekend, I will upload them to my site and post a link on the list  
for

feedback.

-Ben

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Kyle Klipowicz  
 wrote:

Yes, I agree that the fund should be for a documentation bounty.
I think that Ben (or whoever makes the shirts) should hold the  
money in
trust. Perhaps set up an interest-bearing account to save the  
cash in. Then
create a well-documented (pun?) bounty description of what key  
features are

to be implemented and the financial payment for each.
You could do micropayments for key help patches or examples, say  
$20 US
each, or a big bounty for larger sections such as re-organizing  
existing
patches into a tidy intro library for new uses, with ready-mades  
to go.
I think this would be a longer lasting value than paying for Pd- 
con. I'd
love to go myself, but probably cannot afford it...but I'd rather  
see some
solid documentation be built...or have the financial incentive to  
do it!

(Not a capitalist, just a hungry belly).
~Kyle

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Ben Baker-Smith >

wrote:


I'm open to the idea of donating proceeds to PdCon.  But, having  
never

been, I have some clarifying questions/concerns.

I would really prefer that any money from sales went toward
documentation, which in turn will increase useability and make  
PD more

accessible to new users.  Does the convention encourage/promote
documentation?  Is time spent at the convention trying to  
increase the

existing body of literature?

If so, then I'm all for it.  I just don't want to settle on  
PdCon if

it's only useful to attendees.  (of course, I understand that in a
good open-source community knowledge gained by any members  
contributes

in some way to the knowledge of the group... but I'm talking more
formal documention rather than more answers on the mailing list)

Glad to hear the interest.  I'm still looking into the best way  
to go

about printing, selling, and distributing.
If someone wants to partner up on this I'd be happy for the help  
and

added input.

-Ben



On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Alexandre Castonguay
 wrote:

Hi Ben, all,

We did the last batch of t's as a fundraiser for the Convention  
in
Montréal.  We managed to pay for another 1/2 plane ticket with  
the

proceeds :-).  Maybe the same could be done for São Paulo?

The super folks from Graz sent the file they used for the  
original t's I

should still have it if you want.

À bientôt,

Alexandre




Hello List,

I'm considering designing and selling PD related t-shirts.  I  
haven't
totally worked out the logistics.  Basically I was inspired by  
the
[Bang( shirts that I've seen online, but which are no longer  
available

as far as I can tell.

Anyway, if I did so, I would like to donate all of the  
proceeds toward

further PD development, specifically documentation of poorly
documented objects (or example patches, which is basically the  
same

thing).

How do you all think would be the best way of going about this?

Should I stockpile the money and then offer it to someone as a  
sort of
grant?  That's less than ideal in my opinion.  I really don't  
know how

to go about thi

Re: [PD] pics from S?o Paulo

[Koray Tahiroglu]

Hello Marius,


say hello to everybody in the convention and keep on posting images,  
sounds and video from the convention!!


enjoy,

Koray



On Jul 21, 2009, at 12:10 PM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:58:26 -0300
From: marius schebella 
Subject: [PD] pics from S?o Paulo
To: "pd-list@iem.at" 
Message-ID: <4a652ed2.7000...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi,
I put some pics online from Pdcon09 in S?o Paulo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23071...@n00/sets/72157621754454542
marius.




-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Acoustics Lab / TKK
http://mlab.taik.fi/~korayt/
http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/~ktahirog/
tel: +358 45 233 6272




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Re: [PD] making scales from frequency values

[Lorenzo]

Hi,

A couple of thoughts.

It might be useful to think in terms ratios instead of absolute 
frequency values if you want to generalise your model so instead of 912, 
2434, 4575 etc. 1, 2.66..., 5.01 and thus expressing all the frequencies 
you found experimentally as ratios.


This can help when dealing with scales and 'musical' (esp. tonal) 
intervals because our perception of pitch is not linear (so for example 
the interval between 110 Hz and 220 Hz is perceived as an octave 
'difference', and so is the one between 220 and 440, yet their 
mathematical difference is respectively 110 and 220).


Just to complicate things :)... Also keep in mind that for 'realistic' 
modelling of instruments you have to consider how partial presence and 
quality changes with the changing of the fundamental pitch for many 
various reasons some of which related to the intrinsic features of that 
particular instrument (frequencies involved, meterials, shapes etc.)
A good intuitive example of this is the piano where you can clearly hear 
that lower the pitches (played keys) sound 'richer', than higher ones.
(I think this article might be interesting in this regard: 
http://www.applied-acoustics.com/techtalk-physicalmodeling.htm)


Kind regards,
Lorenzo.


Andrew Turley wrote:

The ratios are maintained because you're multiplying (I'm not quite
sure what you mean by "even out"). But yes, you could also convert to
MIDI and then use addition, and then convert back to set the
oscillator. Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other.

andy

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Mike Moser-Booth wrote:
  

How do these objects even out your ratios (or, I guess, what do you mean by
that)? Finding the difference between two frequencies after converting them
to a MIDI value allows you to work linearly instead of logarithmically,
which is just easier--well, for me anyway. For example, after converting
912Hz and 1081Hz to MIDI and getting the difference, you come up with
2.9431. Now you can just think of them as 2.9431 half-steps apart, and that
one number will work starting from any pitch. If you stick to the frequency
realm, you'll have to consider them a ratio of 912:1081, which is fine, but
a little ugly and not as easy.

As far as filling in the gaps, I don't know if this will help at all or not,
but it might be something to think about. When you look at how the major
scale is constructed, it can be seen as taking advantage of the first few
harmonics in the harmonic series. I'll use the C major scale to (try to)
illustrate. Going up from C in the harmonic series, you get an octave, a
fifth (G), another octave, a major third (E), and another fifth [1]. Those
last three notes are a C major triad (C-E-G). Now, stepping back a bit, the
first note other than C in the series is G, the fifth, or dominant, in the
scale. If you go the other way, down a fifth, you get F, the subdominant.
Now, taking the intervals from the C major chord and applying them to G and
F, you get G-B-D and F-A-C, respectively. The notes in those chords are what
is used to fill in the gaps, and now you have all of the notes of a C major
scale: C-D-E-F-G-A-B.

I mention all of that because you're already working with partials. So
perhaps working with an interval or ratio between two of your partials and
applying that to another of your partials to generate new frequencies might
get you somewhere. Or it might suck, who the fuck knows :-). Either way,
this sounds like an interesting project, and I'd be interested in seeing
where you go with all of this.

Best of luck,
.mmb

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(music)

J bz wrote:

Dear Mike and Andrew,

Thank you for your speedy responses, though I think I am not explaining
myself very well.  I don't want to use mtof or ftom as these objects even
out my ratios.  What I'm looking to do is create a scale (say 12 notes for
example) out of these ratio's with the possibility of filling in the
consonant gaps whilst preserving the original frequencies and ratio's.  The
1st number in each group is the strongest partial so: 912Hz, 1081Hz, 1211Hz
etc.  If I'm saying that these frequencies are 'good' to my ear, is there a
way of creating equally 'good' sounding notes to fill in the gaps in, say
for example, a 12 note scale based on these notes scaling from the lowest to
the highest without doing the whole thing 'by ear'?

Cheers for weighing in,

Jbz

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Andrew Faraday 
wrote:


Hey Jbz
I'm not sure if this is what you want, but if you convert a midi note to
frequency [mtof] then multiply by integers, you get the natural partials.
So if you multiply the outlet of [mtof] by 2 3 4 5 and 6. then you can
change the multiplication figure, etc. I think that's the effect you're
after.
God bless
Andrew


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:24:05 +0100
From: jbee...@googlemail.com
To: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: [PD] making scales from frequency values

Dear all,

I have five chimes. 

[PD] Fixed point support in GCC

[Chris McCormick]

Hey all,

I wonder if this could bring PDa and Pd closer together?


Best,

Chris.

---
http://mccormick.cx

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Re: [PD] making scales from frequency values

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Derek Holzer hat gesagt: // Derek Holzer wrote:

> There seems to be some disagreement in whether the original poster wants  
> his partials quantized to notes within an existing scale (I assume he  
> does not) or whether he wants to preserve the exact ratios of partials  
> to fundamental (which I assume he does). Does [tunetof] do both?

tunetof is for scales, not for sound design: You design the scale you want to
use with Scala (or a with text editor and some math) and then convert and load
the scale description into [tunetof]. As default [tunetof] behaves exactly like
[mtof], but the fun begins, when you start using different scales. 

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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Re: [PD] Fwd: PD t-shirts

[Si Mills]

this might help, in true diy Pd style!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Screen-Printing%3a-Cheap%2c-Dirty%2c-and-At-Home/

cheers

On 21 Jul 2009, at 10:03, harris_pil...@gmx.de wrote:


just sent it to hc. sorry.

Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:


hi there,

is anybody still into the tshirt thing? i think i could help with  
the printing. i'm not good at thinking of designs though. bang- 
until was quite common-sense - afaik there hasnt been lot response  
on that!?
i wanted to bring up the topic again  - basically because i want a  
pd-tshirt too :)

cheers
Am 06.04.2009 um 06:23 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:



I like the DIY way.  It would be great if people organized their  
own fundraisers and bounties.  I think that fits in well with the  
anarchic nature of Pd.


There are things like cafepress.com for t-shirts and the like.  It  
is more expensive than doing it yourself, probably, but its  
easier.  It would be nice to see more than one Pd t-shirt  
available.  I'd like bang-until and that cake, for example.


.hc


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:


Thanks Kyle,

That's much more in line with what I'm looking to do.  I also  
cannot
afford to go to PdCon given that it's all the way in Brazil, and  
I'm
sure the majority of Pd users are in the same boat.  A  
documentation
bounty seems like a good way to encourage people to document, and  
give

them a way of justifying their time.  And, I agree, probably more
worthwhile than paying half of one person's ticket to Sao Paulo.

In regards to designs, and printing:

I'm thinking it might be cheapest (allowing more money to be  
raised)

for me to print the shirts myself.. I just need to come up with a
solid price estimate in the next couple days.  Also, this seems  
more
in line with the do-it-yourself attitude of Pd than, say, e- 
mailing a
.Gif file to an internet service and letting it all go through  
them.


I have  couple designs I've drawn up myself, and a few have been
submitted to me via this list.  So, hopefully by the end of the
weekend, I will upload them to my site and post a link on the  
list for

feedback.

-Ben

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Kyle Klipowicz  
 wrote:

Yes, I agree that the fund should be for a documentation bounty.
I think that Ben (or whoever makes the shirts) should hold the  
money in
trust. Perhaps set up an interest-bearing account to save the  
cash in. Then
create a well-documented (pun?) bounty description of what key  
features are

to be implemented and the financial payment for each.
You could do micropayments for key help patches or examples, say  
$20 US
each, or a big bounty for larger sections such as re-organizing  
existing
patches into a tidy intro library for new uses, with ready-mades  
to go.
I think this would be a longer lasting value than paying for Pd- 
con. I'd
love to go myself, but probably cannot afford it...but I'd  
rather see some
solid documentation be built...or have the financial incentive  
to do it!

(Not a capitalist, just a hungry belly).
~Kyle

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Ben Baker-Smith >

wrote:


I'm open to the idea of donating proceeds to PdCon.  But,  
having never

been, I have some clarifying questions/concerns.

I would really prefer that any money from sales went toward
documentation, which in turn will increase useability and make  
PD more

accessible to new users.  Does the convention encourage/promote
documentation?  Is time spent at the convention trying to  
increase the

existing body of literature?

If so, then I'm all for it.  I just don't want to settle on  
PdCon if
it's only useful to attendees.  (of course, I understand that  
in a
good open-source community knowledge gained by any members  
contributes

in some way to the knowledge of the group... but I'm talking more
formal documention rather than more answers on the mailing list)

Glad to hear the interest.  I'm still looking into the best way  
to go

about printing, selling, and distributing.
If someone wants to partner up on this I'd be happy for the  
help and

added input.

-Ben



On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Alexandre Castonguay
 wrote:

Hi Ben, all,

We did the last batch of t's as a fundraiser for the  
Convention in
Montréal.  We managed to pay for another 1/2 plane ticket with  
the

proceeds :-).  Maybe the same could be done for São Paulo?

The super folks from Graz sent the file they used for the  
original t's I

should still have it if you want.

À bientôt,

Alexandre




Hello List,

I'm considering designing and selling PD related t-shirts.  I  
haven't
totally worked out the logistics.  Basically I was inspired  
by the
[Bang( shirts that I've seen online, but which are no longer  
available

as far as I can tell.

Anyway, if I did so, I would like to donate all of the  
proceeds toward

further PD development, specifically documentation of poorly
documented objects (or example patches, which is basically  
the same

thing).

How do you all think woul

Re: [PD] making scales from frequency values

[J bz]

Hey all,

First off can I say a very big thank you for everyone who's contributed so
far.  Some really excellent input which has helped to clarify my thinking no
end.

Let's clear a few things up first:

It is a ratio problem I believe. The initial problem stems from trying to
shoehorn the original ratios/partials from the analysis of my 5 chimes, into
equal temperament.  There are a couple of reasons for this;  I've been
playing around on the piano after assigning each partial to its nearest
midi/equal temperament note, and was liking the results that ensued whilst
listening to them on the piano. Obviously the tones generated on the piano
are much richer than individual sines. The original wind chime has been sat
over my desk for the last 18 months,  so I'm also very attuned to the
original sounds. I would also like to have the various partials to be as
modular as possible with the idea that I can 'mix'n'match' the various
frequencies of the chimes to create new sonorities.

When I listen to the results of using equal temperament within my patch my
ears don't like the results in comparison to the original frequencies, which
has led to the current predicament.  As I previously stated my maths is
rubbish (I'm more of a musician/composer background than computing), so when
faced with the logarithmic aspect of frequency and pitch, my mind went into
meltdown.  But it is much clearer now (I believe).

Perhaps I should state what it is that I wish to do:

I started with the midinote idea as a hopefully simple way to be able to
introduce some controlled randomness into the frequencies of the chimes
whilst preserving the ratios.  What I want to do is be able to assign any
ratio from my analysis into any of the 5 chimes - so say have a chime
consisting of the 1st partial from chime1, 2nd partial from chime2 etc
and then any possible combination therein.

So my thinking has been to have some sort of central control which would
then send the necessary value to the 5 'osc~' that make up each chime.  I'm
trying to conceptualise/clarify the simplest method.

I think what will make things clearer is if I forward the patch as it
currently stands

Gonna do that now

Big props peeps,

Jbz
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Re: [PD] Fwd: PD t-shirts

[Ben Baker-Smith]

I'm still interested in making some shirts.  I've been real busy, but
would like to make it happen sometime this summer.
I guess I don't have much else to say, just re-affirming my interest.

-Ben

>this might help, in true diy Pd style!
>http://www.instructables.com/id/Screen-Printing%3a-Cheap%2c-Dirty%2c-and-At-Home/

>cheers

>On 21 Jul 2009, at 10:03, harris_pil...@gmx.de wrote:

> just sent it to hc. sorry.
>
> Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:
>>
>> hi there,
>>
>> is anybody still into the tshirt thing? i think i could help with
>> the printing. i'm not good at thinking of designs though. bang-
>> until was quite common-sense - afaik there hasnt been lot response
>> on that!?
>> i wanted to bring up the topic again  - basically because i want a
>> pd-tshirt too :)
>> cheers

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Re: [PD] Soundfiler question

[Miller Puckette]

Probably a bug... I'll see if I can reproduce it :)

Miller

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 04:34:22PM -0400, David Place wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In the attached patch, I am trying to use Pd to generate wavetables to  
> use in another applications.  It seems like it should be easy and, in  
> fact, it almost works.  In the attached patch I initialize some arrays  
> using "sinesum" and then write them to aif files.  I use the -skip and  
> -nframes flags to avoid writing the interpolation points to the file.   
> When I read the file back in, the first four (0-3) elements are 0 then  
> my data begins (4-511).  The last four points of my data have been  
> dropped.  I hope this due to a misunderstanding on my part and is not  
> because of a bug.  But just in case:
> 
> Pd 0.42-5
> Mac OS X 10.5.7
> 
> 


> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> Cheers, David
> 

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Re: [PD] Soundfiler question

[David Place]

Thanks.  No rush.  I wrote a little script to work around it.

On Jul 21, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:


Probably a bug... I'll see if I can reproduce it :)

Miller

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 04:34:22PM -0400, David Place wrote:

Hi,

In the attached patch, I am trying to use Pd to generate wavetables  
to

use in another applications.


[...]

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[PD] Pd download site at CRCA offline?

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,

is it just me or is http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html offline? Did it
move somewhere?  Like Brazil? :)

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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[PD] Control rate (Was: Sysex out problems)

[András Murányi]

Well i was hoping i wouldn't have to use any kind of timers for that job...
[int] followed by [change] do a good and (in terms of cpu) inexpensive job,
but to "resample" my control flow i will need [metro] or [pulse] afaik... if
i do that, of course i will not add a [metro] to each knob and envelope but
i will set up a central "control clock" with a single [metro] and then i
will feed this to every part that needs to "resample" control signals.
This leads me to the question (i remember it coming up earlier but i cannot
find the topic sorry), if i want to basically modify pd's own control rate,
is there a more direct/general way to do it?

Thanks,

Andras

2009/7/19 Alex 

> You could try making it so that you don't send sysex messages on every
> change.. just poll for changes at a certain rate.. and only sent the
> most recent change at that rate?
>
> -Alex
>
> 2009/7/17 András Murányi :
> [...]
> > Now that i'm trying with a Midisport everything is OK.
> > Another thing was that i was a bit lost in Yamaha's midi spec for the
> mu100
> > but i've found it out.  ;)
> >
> > However now i see that pd's performace is becoming really waving as i'm
> > tring to pump out more midi data.
> > My old-new questions would be:
> > - Provided that a knob is directly driving a sysex pattern which spits
> out
> > way more data than necessary, who do i best slow down my data, staying
> > realtime? I guess i shall drop some of it somehow, or i shall kinda
> resample
> > the datastream. Could you Sirs recommend an economic way to do this?
> > - My machine is a moderate powerhouse (Opteron 148 @2200, 4G), my kernel
> is
> > rt and audio in pd is off however performance is waving, and my simple
> > sequencer is becoming unstable. What are the crucial points of keeping
> the
> > patch 'fast', where do you think i generally lose the most cpu?
> >
>
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Re: [PD] making scales from frequency values

[Matt Barber]

> It is a ratio problem I believe. The initial problem stems from trying to
> shoehorn the original ratios/partials from the analysis of my 5 chimes, into
> equal temperament.  There are a couple of reasons for this;  I've been
> playing around on the piano after assigning each partial to its nearest
> midi/equal temperament note, and was liking the results that ensued whilst
> listening to them on the piano. Obviously the tones generated on the piano
> are much richer than individual sines. The original wind chime has been sat
> over my desk for the last 18 months,  so I'm also very attuned to the
> original sounds. I would also like to have the various partials to be as
> modular as possible with the idea that I can 'mix'n'match' the various
> frequencies of the chimes to create new sonorities.
>
> When I listen to the results of using equal temperament within my patch my
> ears don't like the results in comparison to the original frequencies, which
> has led to the current predicament.


One other question for you that might be a bit unrelated:  are you
looking for an equal temperament for your chimes?  And if so, should
the modular interval necessarily be an octave?

For instance, a scale I have liked lately is 19-tones per
octave+fifth, which is very very close to 12-tones per octave, but you
can do some interesting additive synthesis to "stretch" the partials
so they match the equal temperament (that is, every partial number
that is a power of two is now an octave+fifth higher than the last,
rather than an octave in "normal" harmonic series... then all the
other partials are just fit in logarithmically).  Another is 11-tones
per perfect 5th, which corresponds quite a bit to 19-tones per octave.

Equal temperaments can give you a systematic way of handling pitch
that in my experience is a bit harder to navigate with just
intonation/unequal temperament; at least they take a little bit less
planning and experimentation.

It seems possible you could maybe reverse-engineer a "best-fit" equal
temperament for your chimes that would not just give you the selection
of the original partials, but a compositional space you could use with
some more expression, so that the chimes fit in "organically" if they
want to, but aren't the only thing going on.  I haven't looked hard at
your numbers though -- the more you have the harder it will be to find
a "best-fit."  Remember though, that a great deal of the expression in
traditional Western classical music comes from some of the partials
being out of tune with the underlying scale.


The "combine 5 partials, each chosen from one of the chimes" problem
is quite a bit easier to solve, but attack transients and decays for
each of partials, assuming you really will be using [osc~] will be
paramount: they are a lot of what makes your chimes sound the way they
do.

Sorry for the long wind,

Matt

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Re: [PD] making scales from frequency values

[J bz]

Hey Matt,

Not windy at all:)

My current inclination would be to not use equal temperament.  Though the 19
note scale is appealing creatively.

I guess, if anything, I'm currently thinking that a limited number of ratios
may be the best solution.  Some of the things I have said on a post I sent
about an hour ago that still hasn't popped up yet, describe some of my
current thought. I've also forwarded my piece as it currently stands with my
last post entitled 'Bit Chime (rough draft)'.  Hope it appears soon.

Bests,

Jbz



On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Matt Barber  wrote:

> > It is a ratio problem I believe. The initial problem stems from trying to
> > shoehorn the original ratios/partials from the analysis of my 5 chimes,
> into
> > equal temperament.  There are a couple of reasons for this;  I've been
> > playing around on the piano after assigning each partial to its nearest
> > midi/equal temperament note, and was liking the results that ensued
> whilst
> > listening to them on the piano. Obviously the tones generated on the
> piano
> > are much richer than individual sines. The original wind chime has been
> sat
> > over my desk for the last 18 months,  so I'm also very attuned to the
> > original sounds. I would also like to have the various partials to be as
> > modular as possible with the idea that I can 'mix'n'match' the various
> > frequencies of the chimes to create new sonorities.
> >
> > When I listen to the results of using equal temperament within my patch
> my
> > ears don't like the results in comparison to the original frequencies,
> which
> > has led to the current predicament.
>
>
> One other question for you that might be a bit unrelated:  are you
> looking for an equal temperament for your chimes?  And if so, should
> the modular interval necessarily be an octave?
>
> For instance, a scale I have liked lately is 19-tones per
> octave+fifth, which is very very close to 12-tones per octave, but you
> can do some interesting additive synthesis to "stretch" the partials
> so they match the equal temperament (that is, every partial number
> that is a power of two is now an octave+fifth higher than the last,
> rather than an octave in "normal" harmonic series... then all the
> other partials are just fit in logarithmically).  Another is 11-tones
> per perfect 5th, which corresponds quite a bit to 19-tones per octave.
>
> Equal temperaments can give you a systematic way of handling pitch
> that in my experience is a bit harder to navigate with just
> intonation/unequal temperament; at least they take a little bit less
> planning and experimentation.
>
> It seems possible you could maybe reverse-engineer a "best-fit" equal
> temperament for your chimes that would not just give you the selection
> of the original partials, but a compositional space you could use with
> some more expression, so that the chimes fit in "organically" if they
> want to, but aren't the only thing going on.  I haven't looked hard at
> your numbers though -- the more you have the harder it will be to find
> a "best-fit."  Remember though, that a great deal of the expression in
> traditional Western classical music comes from some of the partials
> being out of tune with the underlying scale.
>
>
> The "combine 5 partials, each chosen from one of the chimes" problem
> is quite a bit easier to solve, but attack transients and decays for
> each of partials, assuming you really will be using [osc~] will be
> paramount: they are a lot of what makes your chimes sound the way they
> do.
>
> Sorry for the long wind,
>
> Matt
>
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pure-data.ca renamed

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


 http://pure-data.artengine.ca/fr/
 http://pure-data.artengine.ca/en/


Further aliased to:

  http://convention07.puredata.info/fr/
  http://convention07.puredata.info/en/

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Re: [PD] pics from S?o Paulo

[Gabriel Vinazza]

It looks like you're having a good time :)

I wish I were there... next time maybe.


Saludos!


On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> Hello Marius,
>
> say hello to everybody in the convention and keep on posting images, sounds
> and video from the convention!!
> enjoy,
> Koray
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2009, at 12:10 PM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:58:26 -0300
> From: marius schebella 
> Subject: [PD] pics from S?o Paulo
> To: "pd-list@iem.at" 
> Message-ID: <4a652ed2.7000...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
> I put some pics online from Pdcon09 in S?o Paulo.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/23071...@n00/sets/72157621754454542
> marius.
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Acoustics Lab / TKK
> http://mlab.taik.fi/~korayt/
> http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/~ktahirog/
> tel: +358 45 233 6272
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Control rate (Was: Sysex out problems)

[Andy Farnell]

Pd does not have a "control rate" as such. All message domain 
computations happen at audio block boundaries and happen as 
fast as possible. From the foregoing discussion it may be 
that some kind of list drip or list sequence operation will
help make things smoother.

andy





On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:26:10 +0200
András Murányi  wrote:

> Well i was hoping i wouldn't have to use any kind of timers for that job...
> [int] followed by [change] do a good and (in terms of cpu) inexpensive job,
> but to "resample" my control flow i will need [metro] or [pulse] afaik... if
> i do that, of course i will not add a [metro] to each knob and envelope but
> i will set up a central "control clock" with a single [metro] and then i
> will feed this to every part that needs to "resample" control signals.
> This leads me to the question (i remember it coming up earlier but i cannot
> find the topic sorry), if i want to basically modify pd's own control rate,
> is there a more direct/general way to do it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andras
> 
> 2009/7/19 Alex 
> 
> > You could try making it so that you don't send sysex messages on every
> > change.. just poll for changes at a certain rate.. and only sent the
> > most recent change at that rate?
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > 2009/7/17 András Murányi :
> > [...]
> > > Now that i'm trying with a Midisport everything is OK.
> > > Another thing was that i was a bit lost in Yamaha's midi spec for the
> > mu100
> > > but i've found it out.  ;)
> > >
> > > However now i see that pd's performace is becoming really waving as i'm
> > > tring to pump out more midi data.
> > > My old-new questions would be:
> > > - Provided that a knob is directly driving a sysex pattern which spits
> > out
> > > way more data than necessary, who do i best slow down my data, staying
> > > realtime? I guess i shall drop some of it somehow, or i shall kinda
> > resample
> > > the datastream. Could you Sirs recommend an economic way to do this?
> > > - My machine is a moderate powerhouse (Opteron 148 @2200, 4G), my kernel
> > is
> > > rt and audio in pd is off however performance is waving, and my simple
> > > sequencer is becoming unstable. What are the crucial points of keeping
> > the
> > > patch 'fast', where do you think i generally lose the most cpu?
> > >
> >
> 


-- 
Use the source

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[PD] Easiest way to connect a wiimote to pd on ubuntu

[Damien Henry]

Hello !

What is the easiest way to connect a wiimote to pb on ubuntu ?

Thanks in advance.
Damien.


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Re: [PD] Pd download site at CRCA offline?

[Jaime Oliver]

yes, it's down here to and i'm in crca

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Frank Barknecht  wrote:

> Hallo,
>
> is it just me or is http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/software.html offline? Did
> it
> move somewhere?  Like Brazil? :)
>
> Ciao
> --
> Frank
>
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-- 
Jaime E Oliver LR

joliv...@ucsd.edu
www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver
www-crca.ucsd.edu/
www.realidadvisual.org

858 202 1522
9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G
La Jolla, CA 92037
USA
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