Re: [PD] Gem compile error: filmAVIPLAY.cpp
Peter Plessas wrote: Dear List, getting this trying to compile gem-0.92-1: make[1]: *** [filmAVIPLAY.o] Error 1 this is related to the avifile library, so it might help to know which exact version of avifile-0.7 you are compiling/linking to. what did configure say? finally, your OS would be interesting as well. gf,sdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Gem compile error: filmAVIPLAY.cpp
Thanks IOhannes, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Peter Plessas wrote: Dear List, getting this trying to compile gem-0.92-1: make[1]: *** [filmAVIPLAY.o] Error 1 this is related to the avifile library, so it might help to know which exact version of avifile-0.7 you are compiling/linking to. This is on Debian, libavifile-0.7-dev is of Version: 1:0.7.48~20090503.ds-2 what did configure say? nothing special as far as i can tell: ... checking for PKG_AVIFILE_CFLAGS... -I/usr/include/avifile-0.7 checking for PKG_AVIFILE_LIBS... -laviplay ... Summary: Result: Target : Gem.pd_linux Objects: Base Controls Geos Manips Nongeos Particles Pixes openGL Vertex Configuration: Compiler : g++ CXXFLAGS : -g -O2 -fPIC -freg-struct-return -O3 -falign-loops=32 -falign-functions=32 -falign-jumps=32 -funroll-loops -ffast-math -mmmx -msse2 : -I/usr/include/lqt -I/usr/include/lqt -I/usr/include/avifile-0.7 -I/usr/include/FTGL -I/usr/include/freetype2 INCLUDES : -I/usr/include/FTGL -I/usr/include/freetype2 DEFINES: LIBS : -ldv -lmpeg -lmpeg3 -lstdc++ -lGLU -lGL -lXext -lXxf86vm -lXext -lX11 -ldl -lz -lm -lpthread : -lftgl -laviplay -L/usr/lib -lquicktime -lpthread -lm -lz -ldl -lquicktime -lpthread -lm -lz -ldl -lMagick++ -lWand -lMagick LDFLAGS: -shared -Wl,--export-dynamic : Strip : strip --strip-unneeded Install path : /usr/local pure-data: version: 0.40 extension : pd_linux used optional libraries: font-rendering : FTGL image-support use ImageMagick : yes use TIFF : no (forced) use JPEG : no (forced) video-support use mpeg : yes use mpeg-3 : yes use QuickTime: yes use aviplay : yes use gmerlin : no input-support use v4l : yes use ieee1394 : yes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages)
On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Frank Barknecht wrote: I was involved in early PDDP discussions (around 2005) as well, so PDDP isn't new to me. I dropped out of PDDP for various reasons after a while. Besides the endless discussion about template layout etc. another reason for my retreat was, that the help system started to require certain externals (pddp_link). I was never really involved in PDDP discussions because it is definitely not right that documentation writers would have to mess endlessly with [cnv] sizes and pixel-precise positioning all of the time. Standards that require more work aren't as good as standards that require less work. Following the PDDP standard requires more work than the traditional way of making help files. Following the GFDP requires less work than the PDDP, but that's not all, it also requires less work than making help patches the traditional way! Especially for people who aren't quite happy with approximate layouts. I can accept that, but obviously I had to stop contributing at that point. Some other early participants also dropped out, some for similar reasons IIRC. How many of those PDDP contributors would have dropped out at the point that they would have had to use the template that they designed? Obviously it's fun getting together on the chatline and talk about each person's favourite colours and each person's favourite help-patch width, but living with the consequences of those decisions is something different. That's why in the end not much was done after the decisions were made. (If there's any hidden stash of PDDP docs that *do* follow the PDDP standard, I'd like to know.) While I'm surely guilty of some anti-Pd-extended puritanism, my retreat from PDDP didn't have anything to do with it. It has a different story. Regardless of stated theoretical differences, there's not much that separates anti-extended, pro-portability-across-distribs, and pro-vanilla. Why would the distinction matter? I believe, a general purpose help file template should not require objects not available in all major Pd distributions. This is a contorted way to say that you only want vanilla. In any case, GFDP uses a lot of abstractions, which use a lot of externals, and those externals are required for automatic-layout. (GFDP doesn't use [pddp-link] or any equivalent of it so far). If you acknowledged automatic-layout to be an essential feature, then you'd figure out a way to incorporate it that clashes as little as possible with your beliefs. Whereas if you start from your existing beliefs, then you don't even have to ask yourself whether automatic-layout is a good idea. In October, I rewrote the GridFlow manual. That's 165 help files as of now (actually it should be about 200 help files to be complete). It was enjoyable. GFDP made it fun to write docs, and that's how I got myself to do it the best I could. I wouldn't have had the same level of fun have enjoyed it if I hadn't had the GFDP framework. If I had had to use the PDDP template (that is, reimplement it by hand in every !...@#$ help file) it would have taken forever, and I wouldn't have gone back nearly as often to add additional notes and rephrase what I had written, thinking «I will have to readjust the [cnv]s one more time if I change ANY text in here.» _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages)
On Dec 6, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Frank Barknecht wrote: I was involved in early PDDP discussions (around 2005) as well, so PDDP isn't new to me. I dropped out of PDDP for various reasons after a while. Besides the endless discussion about template layout etc. another reason for my retreat was, that the help system started to require certain externals (pddp_link). I was never really involved in PDDP discussions because it is definitely not right that documentation writers would have to mess endlessly with [cnv] sizes and pixel-precise positioning all of the time. Standards that require more work aren't as good as standards that require less work. Following the PDDP standard requires more work than the traditional way of making help files. Following the GFDP requires less work than the PDDP, but that's not all, it also requires less work than making help patches the traditional way! Especially for people who aren't quite happy with approximate layouts. I think we had some useful discussions in PDDP, but not much work came out of it. It got too bureaucratic. I think the 'official' PDDP template is a place to start from. I've used a simplified version for help patches in my 'apple' library, for example. I think people should learn from PDDP, but not we just need more and better docs, so people should make them based on the knowledge from PDDP. Then thru real world use, we can figure out what works best. .hc I can accept that, but obviously I had to stop contributing at that point. Some other early participants also dropped out, some for similar reasons IIRC. How many of those PDDP contributors would have dropped out at the point that they would have had to use the template that they designed? Obviously it's fun getting together on the chatline and talk about each person's favourite colours and each person's favourite help-patch width, but living with the consequences of those decisions is something different. That's why in the end not much was done after the decisions were made. (If there's any hidden stash of PDDP docs that *do* follow the PDDP standard, I'd like to know.) While I'm surely guilty of some anti-Pd-extended puritanism, my retreat from PDDP didn't have anything to do with it. It has a different story. Regardless of stated theoretical differences, there's not much that separates anti-extended, pro-portability-across-distribs, and pro- vanilla. Why would the distinction matter? I believe, a general purpose help file template should not require objects not available in all major Pd distributions. This is a contorted way to say that you only want vanilla. In any case, GFDP uses a lot of abstractions, which use a lot of externals, and those externals are required for automatic-layout. (GFDP doesn't use [pddp-link] or any equivalent of it so far). If you acknowledged automatic-layout to be an essential feature, then you'd figure out a way to incorporate it that clashes as little as possible with your beliefs. Whereas if you start from your existing beliefs, then you don't even have to ask yourself whether automatic- layout is a good idea. In October, I rewrote the GridFlow manual. That's 165 help files as of now (actually it should be about 200 help files to be complete). It was enjoyable. GFDP made it fun to write docs, and that's how I got myself to do it the best I could. I wouldn't have had the same level of fun have enjoyed it if I hadn't had the GFDP framework. If I had had to use the PDDP template (that is, reimplement it by hand in every !...@#$ help file) it would have taken forever, and I wouldn't have gone back nearly as often to add additional notes and rephrase what I had written, thinking «I will have to readjust the [cnv]s one more time if I change ANY text in here.» _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish.-William Carlos Williams ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages)
On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I think people should learn from PDDP, but not we just need more and better docs, so people should make them based on the knowledge from PDDP. Then thru real world use, we can figure out what works best. GFDP was born when trying to use a PDDP template. I tried real world use and I figured out what works best, and it made me make the GFDP template. I wouldn't mind calling my stuff PDDP 2.0 if that makes anyone understand what's going on with that. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Roman Haefeli wrote: To me, it is not even clear, when data types are converted, in cases when conversion happens at all. Does it happen at the 'inlet', or the 'outlet'? at both? It is always at the inlet. You will not figure this out by using [print] or [route], which are both designed to hide the inconsistency under the carpet. They both contain the combination of if-statements required to mask the problem. Basically each of those classes contains a replica of much of pd_defaultlist, only in a way that doesn't look like copy+paste. [prepend] in Cyclone is different from [list prepend], and that's by design, not a bug (as symbol-selector handling in [route] might be). We don't know if it is a bug, but it doesn't seem logical in a common sense of the word 'logical'. «logical» thus means «something that follows from a set of rules (instead of just being a rule of its own)» instead of the other possible definitions of «something that follows the rules instead of not following them» and «something that was found using the rules instead of being found by other means»... (I didn't look at dictionary for this, I thought about what are the uses of the word that I do encounter in practice.) But because the whole set of rules hasn't been defined or agreed upon, we don't know whether anything is logical or not, because logic always starts from a set of basic rules (which can't be deduced from any other rules... at least not literally). Actually, we can know, as this is written in Pd's source code (and Dd's source code). It's just that the source has to be read... (well, if someone can find Martin Peach's internals doc, I can't find it atm, so I can't tell whether it documents this or not). _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages
--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: From: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org Subject: Re: [PD] Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 12:04 PM Hallo, Jonathan Wilkes hat gesagt: // Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Sat, 12/5/09, Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org wrote: Hey, all I said is that *I* am not the right person to do that. If that's all you had said, I doubt anyone would have replied with anything other than ok. And now I'm curious: why can't you create all the objects in that patch? If some of those objects don't create in pd-ext on win/macos/ linux, at the very least the patch should be changed so that they are removed (or replaced with ascii art). But if it's that you just prefer using pd-vanilla and don't want to download/install pd-ext, why not just say that? Some history: I was involved in early PDDP discussions (around 2005) as well, so PDDP isn't new to me. I dropped out of PDDP for various reasons after a while. Besides the endless discussion about template layout etc. another reason for my retreat was, that the help system started to require certain externals (pddp_link). I believe, a general purpose help file template should not require objects not available in all major Pd distributions. Help files should be accessible to everyone. I wasn't alone with this view, see: http://puredata.info/dev/pddp/2005-11-22-pddp_meeting.txt for example. Some other PDDP contributors didn't have a problem with that. I can accept that, but obviously I had to stop contributing at that point. Some other early participants also dropped out, some for similar reasons IIRC. While I'm surely guilty of some anti-Pd-extended puritanism, my retreat from PDDP didn't have anything to do with it. It has a different story. (I'm sorry for saying pd-extended docs in my previous mail, it should have been PDDP docs.) Thanks, that clarifies some things. So if [pddp_link] is removed, and external objects are given as comments in ascii art, would you have any other issues with pddp? (I don't see template layout as a problem because I've been revising all the reference files to conform to one standard, and I can't imagine someone objecting to using them because they don't like the colors or whatever. But the template looks pretty much like the one for [float] in pd-ext.) [pddp-link] is currently used for pdpedia links, and links to tutorials and other pddp docs. Currently [pddp-link] throws an ugly error msg in windows, although after you close the error message window the link works. I've been spot checking the links from help files to pdpedia, and of 200 help patches roughly 0% of the pdpedia links add anything to what's already in the help patch. If I remove those links then it's just a matter of converting all the More info links to comments and voila, no more [pddp-link]. At some point, it would be nice to have either [pddp-link] in all distributions, or have the ability to links within pd comments (actually that would be much more useful in my opinion). -Jonathan Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages)
--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages) To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 8:08 PM On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I think people should learn from PDDP, but not we just need more and better docs, so people should make them based on the knowledge from PDDP. Then thru real world use, we can figure out what works best. GFDP was born when trying to use a PDDP template. I tried real world use and I figured out what works best, and it made me make the GFDP template. I wouldn't mind calling my stuff PDDP 2.0 if that makes anyone understand what's going on with that. Could you post an example help patch? I downloaded gridflow to check out how your help patches work but I'm on windows so I just get a bunch of broken objects. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] How to access audio files from disk randomly?
Hi all Yeah, it's never too late for basic questions. Basically i would like to create file player patch, that let's you pick a soundfile (be it a wav) of any number of channels and a bit depth currently supported by [readsf~] and it should be able to play from any position between the start and the end of the file. Usually i used a kludge by using [soundfiler] in order to get the number of sample frames of the file and then i calculated the number of bytes to be skipped in order to be able to let [readsf~] play the file from a random position. However, this only works when the actual header size of the file is constant (i.e. known and the same for every file; ok, when the header sizes would be known, they wouldn't need to be the same for all files, but you get the point) and when you know beforehand the bit depth of the file(s), since [readsf~] reads it correctly, but doesn't tell you about it. Now, i would like to be able to play wav files correctly with arbitrary (unkown) bit depths and arbitrary (unkown) number of channels. Also, i am looking for a way to be able to load both, simple RIFF WAV and so called 'Broadcast WAV' files (the ones with a 'bext' header signature). I also tried [wavinfo] from ext13. However, this seems to work only with the former (simple) format, but not with broadcast wav-files. Funny enough, [readsf~] seems to have everything needed built-in, since it reads both formats correctly, it just does not expose those functions to the pd patch (as this unfortunately is often the problem with many object classes). Any idea or pointers to other externals welcome! Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [sigmund~] and [fiddle~]
Hello, Can [sigmund~] do everything [fiddle~] can do (or do it better)? BTW: I'm finding that to use [sigmund~] with tables, the -t flag is unnecessary-- just remove it in the example in the subpatch and you get the same results. Not sure if that's a bug or not, but it makes me wonder: what's the purpose of having the -t flag? Thanks, Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages)
On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Could you post an example help patch? I downloaded gridflow to check out how your help patches work but I'm on windows so I just get a bunch of broken objects. Screenshots of all the helpfiles are available at http://gridflow.ca/help/ but this is 0.9.6 (and the new helpfiles are already a bit different). note that those shots are truncated when they are too long (higher than my screen). I didn't code an automated screenshot stitcher yet (and there's no way I'm gonna do this manually). Some helpfiles that best illustrate GFDP (among those that fit in a screenshot): http://gridflow.ca/help/%23mouse-help.png http://gridflow.ca/help/%23labelling-help.png http://gridflow.ca/help/range-help.png http://gridflow.ca/help/receives-help.png But really, to appreciate GFDP you have to know that every component is an abstraction instance (except comments), that there are invisible patchcords so that comments have owners, and then there is an automatic positioning system: http://gridflow.ca/gallery/doc_anim.mov but this video doesn't demonstrate much of it. Here's a screenshot of range-help.pd when in edit mode: http://gridflow.ca/gallery/%23range-help-edit.png patchcords that aren't used for sending messages are dashed and painted orange. The dashed boxes aren't usually there. They can be turned on by editing two abstractions (one for comments and one for non-comments). What you see in this screenshot is by editing only one abstraction; in the video, the other abstraction has been edited. Note that some buttons are visible only when in edit-mode. Note that moving a [doc_m] moves the attached comment around, but moving the comment around has no effect (or may reorder comments if there are several of them). Writing more text in a comment automatically moves all following [doc_m] downwards and so on including higher-level section headings ([doc_oo], [doc_o], etc) There's more to it. I guess someone with a faster computer than mine could make a video of all the features. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages)
--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding $0 and dealing with it in messages) To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at, pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 2:37 AM On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Could you post an example help patch? I downloaded gridflow to check out how your help patches work but I'm on windows so I just get a bunch of broken objects. Screenshots of all the helpfiles are available at http://gridflow.ca/help/ but this is 0.9.6 (and the new helpfiles are already a bit different). note that those shots are truncated when they are too long (higher than my screen). I didn't code an automated screenshot stitcher yet (and there's no way I'm gonna do this manually). Some helpfiles that best illustrate GFDP (among those that fit in a screenshot): http://gridflow.ca/help/%23mouse-help.png http://gridflow.ca/help/%23labelling-help.png http://gridflow.ca/help/range-help.png http://gridflow.ca/help/receives-help.png But really, to appreciate GFDP you have to know that every component is an abstraction instance (except comments), that there are invisible patchcords so that comments have owners, and then there is an automatic positioning system: http://gridflow.ca/gallery/doc_anim.mov but this video doesn't demonstrate much of it. Here's a screenshot of range-help.pd when in edit mode: http://gridflow.ca/gallery/%23range-help-edit.png patchcords that aren't used for sending messages are dashed and painted orange. The dashed boxes aren't usually there. They can be turned on by editing two abstractions (one for comments and one for non-comments). What you see in this screenshot is by editing only one abstraction; in the video, the other abstraction has been edited. Note that some buttons are visible only when in edit-mode. Note that moving a [doc_m] moves the attached comment around, but moving the comment around has no effect (or may reorder comments if there are several of them). Writing more text in a comment automatically moves all following [doc_m] downwards and so on including higher-level section headings ([doc_oo], [doc_o], etc) There's more to it. I guess someone with a faster computer than mine could make a video of all the features. That's some cool stuff. What are the externals that are being used (esp. to hide patch cords and move the abstractions into place? Are the pngs/movs in dd or pd-ext? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] NIME concert at Southpaw in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 12/15 8-11pm
There will definitely be some Pd projects here: NIME: New Interfaces for Musical Expression. NIME: creating new performance tools for digital music. http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/ In the eighth annual NIME concert, performers will play a series of newly designed electronic instruments that aim to keep the live in the live performance of digital music. Electronic music is usually played with a keyboard and mouse. Laptop musicians often sit at a desk and give performances that are little more than watching someone make office gestures. The idea behind NIME is to go beyond the mouse and keyboard and beyond even piano keys and drum pads. It seeks to present performance systems that make the most out of the new opportunities for musical expression that digital technology offers. This year's NIME concert will feature such innovations as a musically enhanced sewing machine, sonified floor tiles, performative knitting needles, turntablism for live instrumentalists, electronically controlled cartoon antics, novel realizations of the rock guitar, and a host of other exciting approaches to the creation of music. NIME is an end-of-semester performance by 16 graduate student artists from the Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) at NYU. Entry is $7 (Free for NYU ID holders) Doors open at 7, Show starts at 8 NIME @ Southpaw http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/ 125 Fifth Avenue Brooklyn, NY 11217 Tuesday, December 15, 2009 Performances 8PM-11PM Doors open at 7PM NIME at ITP http://itp.nyu.edu/nime Greg Shakar, Hans-Christoph Steiner, +1-718-360-4872, ha...@nyu.edu ITP http://itp.nyu.edu George Agudow +1-212-998-1891, george.agu...@nyu.edu Southpaw 125 Fifth Avenue (at Sterling Pl) Brooklyn, NY 11217 718.230.0236 http://www.spsounds.com ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
