Re: [PD] [sigmund~] and [fiddle~]

[Jonathan Wilkes]

--- On Mon, 12/7/09, Frank Barknecht  wrote:

> From: Frank Barknecht 
> Subject: Re: [PD] [sigmund~] and [fiddle~]
> To: pd-list@iem.at
> Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 10:04 AM
> Hallo,
> Jonathan Wilkes hat gesagt: // Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> 
> > Can [sigmund~] do everything [fiddle~] can do (or do
> it better)?
> 
> I leave the first part of the question as a task to the
> reader of both help files.

I don't understand: Does this mean you haven't read them?  That you have 
and it's obvious?  That you have and it isn't?

Unless I'm overlooking something, neither help patch mentions the other 
object.  Obviously [sigmund~] has a lot more "goodies" than [fiddle~], but 
without spending a long span of time studying each object in depth, it's 
unclear whether some functions of [fiddle~] were left out of [sigmund~] or 
subsumed under one of its new features.

If anyone has some experience using both objects, it would be nice to add 
a sentence to [sigmund~]'s help patch clarifying its relationship to 
[fiddle~] (and vice versa).

Thanks,
Jonathan


  

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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

That offer is not a complete sentence, so I can't accept.  :-D

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:

They could both agree to settle it in the only suitable manner:  
after school, by the bike racks. No knives.


D.

Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

Mathieu Bouchard escribió:

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?


If you want to say something, I would suggest that you use  
complete sentences.



Mathieu Bouchard escribió:
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
>> Here's a friendly suggestion, instead of spending time writing  
giant

>> emails, spend that time trying to isolate the bugs that you are
>> complaining about.
>
> [...] Here's a friendly suggestion : stop replying to mails that  
you don't

> read and don't care about.
>
>
Do you genuinely hate Hans-Cristoph or is it a joke/game between  
long-time friends?

:)


--
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista 
 :::

---Oblique Strategy # 11:
"Always first steps"

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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Yay progress!

Well, once you get this scrounged help patch working, could you post  
the files so we can include them in the Gem svn?  Ideally, they would  
be posted to the Gem patch tracker.


.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

i have them, but i was not hard coding the paths, now they are at  
least recognized, but still not cube is loading, i am getting Data  
though
It's not my help patch i found it from scrounging around for my next  
meal.



From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:27 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: Cosmin S; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

It seems you need to have a camera_para.dat and patt.hiro.  Do you
have those?

http://www.hitl.washington.edu/artoolkit/mail-archive/message-thread-00942-Unable-to-set-up-AR-came.html

Maybe we could include your help patch with Gem?  There is currently
none that I know of.  I can check it in if you are ok with that.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


okay when i run it i get
[pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit support by Shigeyuki Hirai

YEAH

but when i run the help patch i get

error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: Camera parameter load error  
(-1) !!

error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: pattern load error (-1) !!

Is there another help patch to test/try with?
I have attached the one i have.

pp




From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of
Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
To: Cosmin S
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

The powerpc build machine is still down.  I think I managed to get a
complete backup of the old machine before the disk totally died.
Now I need to find a time to put that backup on a new disk and
install it in the machine.

Anyone running Mac OS X 10.4/PowerPC want to try a build?

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Cosmin S wrote:

Super,

Just what I've looking for!
Is there a chance to get the nightly autobuild for ppc?

C.


From: h...@at.or.at
To: p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0500
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?


Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in /
Applications. Its named differently, so you can have both at the  
same

time, you can have them both runniung too.

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


okay
i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so
it does not overwrite my current pd



From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the
Pd-
extended builds. So it would be good if you could test it so we can
fix things before the release. For Mac OS X, its now included in  
the

nightly builds as of today:

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/
Ubuntu.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


Hi

I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
rather cloudy
as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build
it?
Do i need GEM sources etc?
Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
properly?
I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other
than
pix_?

Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
bit but it works very well for large scale databases and
integration
with pd/GEM would be wonderful

pp

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don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
Environmentalism", by Curtis White










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PC, téléphones portables, souris hi-tech. à gagn

Re: [PD] BuildingPdExtended

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Hey Cosmin,

Let's keep this thread on the list so that its in the archive others  
can contribute and benefit from it.


The easiest way to get the whole source tree is the rsync method.  So  
use the rsync method for 'pd-extended'.


.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Cosmin S wrote:


Hi,

I'm trying to get the sources with the "bash checkout-developer- 
layout.sh".

In the scope to build the last sources on a osx ppc system.

So at the end, after a long list of downloaded files, I get this  
error:


"Checked out revision 3027.
sudo rm -f /usr/local/include/tcl*.h /usr/local/include/tk*.h
Password:
sudo rm -f /usr/local/lib/tclConfig.sh /usr/local/lib/tkConfig.sh
sudo rm -f /usr/local/lib/libtcl*.dylib /usr/local/lib/libtk*.dylib
sudo rm -f /usr/local/lib/libtclstub*.a /usr/local/lib/libtkstub*.a
test -e  /Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.4/Headers/ 
tcl.h && \

sudo ln -s \
/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/8.4/ 
Headers/tcl.h \

/usr/local/include/tcl.h
make: *** [devsymlinks_darwin] Error 1"

What's wrong?

C.

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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Derek Holzer]

They could both agree to settle it in the only suitable manner: after 
school, by the bike racks. No knives.


D.

Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

Mathieu Bouchard escribió:

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?


If you want to say something, I would suggest that you use complete 
sentences.




Mathieu Bouchard escribió:
 > On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 >
 >> Here's a friendly suggestion, instead of spending time writing giant
 >> emails, spend that time trying to isolate the bugs that you are
 >> complaining about.
 >
 > [...] Here's a friendly suggestion : stop replying to mails that you 
don't

 > read and don't care about.
 >
 >


Do you genuinely hate Hans-Cristoph or is it a joke/game between 
long-time friends?


:)



--
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: 
http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::

---Oblique Strategy # 11:
"Always first steps"

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[PD] pd_tuesday/ Berlin

[servando barreiro]

Hello!
Next tuesday there will be a first meeting of pure data users in Berlin:
We are meeting at 8pm at NK for the monthy? puredata Meeting on tuesday 15 
decc, 2009.
Doors are open from 8-8:15.  At other time, probably they are closed and you 
will have to call anybody in Nk.To get a telephone number to call or confirm 
assistance you can write to i...@minitronics.net

Elsenstr. 52 2HH 2Etage
12059 Berlin

www.nkprojekt.de
[bang(|[love]|[ser~]


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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Roman Haefeli]

On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 18:04 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> > Seriously, giving anwers that are not real sentences is not so abnormal 
> > for a mailing list, is it?
> 
>
>ooo
> oo$$o o$   $$ o$
> o $ oooo   $$ $$ $$o$
> oo $ $ "$  o$$$o   $$$o$$o$
> "$$o$ o$  $$$  $$o
>$$$$$$  $$$  $$$
>$$$$$$"$$$"
> "$$$$ "$$$
>  $$$   o$$ "$$$o
> o$$"   $$$   $$$o
> $$$$" "$$oo
>o$$$$  $   o
>"   $$ 
>      ""  o$$$
>  "$$$o """$$"$$" $$$
>$$$o  "$$""$$   o$$$
> o oo o$$$"
>  "o  o$$o"oo
>"$oo ""o$o   o""
>   ""$  "$$$o$"""
>  ""$$$oo $$
>  $$$
>  
>   $$"
>"$$$
>   _
___/ \  /\
 __/  \/  \__
   _/  \___|  /  \__
  / \__| /  \__
 \_|/  \_
  \|   / \_
  ___  \___|  /
\_
 /   \  \__| /  
 \
| |  \_|/   
  \
 \___/\|   /
   |
   \  / 
\
\/  
   
 \  /
  \/
   \  /
\/ 
 \  /
  \/
   \  /
\/



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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

i am getting a stream of data out of the second outlet, but i am not getting a 
cube, actually with this patch when the data stream begins the cube disappears

pp

From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of Pagano, 
Patrick [...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:42 PM
To: Hans-Christoph Steiner
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

i have them, but i was not hard coding the paths, now they are at least 
recognized, but still not cube is loading, i am getting Data though
It's not my help patch i found it from scrounging around for my next meal.


From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:27 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: Cosmin S; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

It seems you need to have a camera_para.dat and patt.hiro.  Do you
have those?

http://www.hitl.washington.edu/artoolkit/mail-archive/message-thread-00942-Unable-to-set-up-AR-came.html

Maybe we could include your help patch with Gem?  There is currently
none that I know of.  I can check it in if you are ok with that.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

> okay when i run it i get
> [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit support by Shigeyuki Hirai
>
> YEAH
>
> but when i run the help patch i get
>
> error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: Camera parameter load error (-1) !!
> error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: pattern load error (-1) !!
>
> Is there another help patch to test/try with?
> I have attached the one i have.
>
> pp
>
>
>
> 
> From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of
> Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
> To: Cosmin S
> Cc: PD list
> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>
> The powerpc build machine is still down.  I think I managed to get a
> complete backup of the old machine before the disk totally died.
> Now I need to find a time to put that backup on a new disk and
> install it in the machine.
>
> Anyone running Mac OS X 10.4/PowerPC want to try a build?
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Cosmin S wrote:
>
> Super,
>
> Just what I've looking for!
> Is there a chance to get the nightly autobuild for ppc?
>
> C.
>
>> From: h...@at.or.at
>> To: p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
>> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0500
>> CC: pd-list@iem.at
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>>
>>
>> Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in /
>> Applications. Its named differently, so you can have both at the same
>> time, you can have them both runniung too.
>>
>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>
>>> okay
>>> i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
>>> where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so
>>> it does not overwrite my current pd
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
>>> To: Pagano, Patrick
>>> Cc: pd-list@iem.at
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>>>
>>> IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the
>>> Pd-
>>> extended builds. So it would be good if you could test it so we can
>>> fix things before the release. For Mac OS X, its now included in the
>>> nightly builds as of today:
>>>
>>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
>>>
>>> If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/
>>> Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>>
 Hi

 I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
 provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
 rather cloudy
 as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

 Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build
 it?
 Do i need GEM sources etc?
 Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
 properly?
 I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

 Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other
 than
 pix_?

 Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
 bit but it works very well for large scale databases and
 integration
 with pd/GEM would be wonderful

 pp

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 Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
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 http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> "

Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Mathieu Bouchard]

Seriously, giving anwers that are not real sentences is not so abnormal 
for a mailing list, is it?


  
  ooo
   oo$$o o$   $$ o$
   o $ oooo   $$ $$ $$o$
oo $ $ "$  o$$$o   $$$o$$o$
"$$o$ o$  $$$  $$o
  $$$$$$  $$$  $$$
  $$$$$$"$$$"
   "$$$$ "$$$
$$$   o$$ "$$$o
   o$$"   $$$   $$$o
   $$$$" "$$oo
  o$$$$  $   o
  "   $$ 
    ""  o$$$
"$$$o """$$"$$" $$$
  $$$o  "$$""$$   o$$$
   o oo o$$$"
"o  o$$o"oo
  "$oo ""o$o   o""
 ""$  "$$$o$"""
""$$$oo $$
$$$

 $$"
  "$$$

 _ _ __ ___ _  _ _ ...
| Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___
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Re: [PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[Ricardo Lameiro]

hey

look at this link, it may help you

http://wiki.dataflow.ws/comport?highlight=%28comport%29


2009/12/7 Felix Obée 

> Thanks for the help everybody!
>
> As I understand it, the Arduino uses the FT232 for communication with the
> computer. So it should be recognized by pd and comport. I'll do some
> soldering and see, what I get.
>
> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/MiniUSB
>
> Is there a further documentation for the comport object, apart from Martins
> helpfile?
> I'm also missing a quick reference guide. Somehow OSX has hidden all
> pd-files from me (probably somewhere root?) and some overview would be nice.
>
> The project will hopefully be well documented to the last resistor. Right
> now we're working on synchronizing the switching to the 0-phase of the sound
> played, to avoid producing crackles when switching.
>
> cheers
> ff
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 07.12.2009 um 18:03 schrieb John Harrison:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
>> Not exactly, the Arduino Duemilanove uses the ATmega168 chip. I have no
>> knowledge of the FT232.
>>
>
> It uses the FT232 to communicate between the USB and the ATmega168:
>
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18027806/Arduino-Duemilanove-Schematic
>
>
>
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>


-- 
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Bassoon / Contra-bassoon
http://myspace.com/ricardolameiro
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[PD] [Fwd: [piksel] pure data group in Berlin]

[Georg Holzmann]

The following Berlin pd-meeting was announced on the piksel mailing list.

LG
Georg
--- Begin Message ---


Hello!

Next tuesday there will be a first meeting of pure data users in Berlin:

We are meeting at 8pm at NK for the monthy? puredata Meeting on  
tuesday 15 decc, 2009.
Doors are open from 8-8:15.  At other time, probably they are closed  
and you will have to call anybody in Nk.
To get a telephone number to call or confirm assistance you can write  
to i...@minitronics.net


Elsenstr. 52 2HH 2Etage
12059 Berlin

www.nkprojekt.de

[bang(
|
[love]
|
[ser~]

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http://www.piksel.no
--- End Message ---
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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

i have them, but i was not hard coding the paths, now they are at least 
recognized, but still not cube is loading, i am getting Data though
It's not my help patch i found it from scrounging around for my next meal.


From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:27 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: Cosmin S; PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

It seems you need to have a camera_para.dat and patt.hiro.  Do you
have those?

http://www.hitl.washington.edu/artoolkit/mail-archive/message-thread-00942-Unable-to-set-up-AR-came.html

Maybe we could include your help patch with Gem?  There is currently
none that I know of.  I can check it in if you are ok with that.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

> okay when i run it i get
> [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit support by Shigeyuki Hirai
>
> YEAH
>
> but when i run the help patch i get
>
> error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: Camera parameter load error (-1) !!
> error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: pattern load error (-1) !!
>
> Is there another help patch to test/try with?
> I have attached the one i have.
>
> pp
>
>
>
> 
> From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of
> Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
> To: Cosmin S
> Cc: PD list
> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>
> The powerpc build machine is still down.  I think I managed to get a
> complete backup of the old machine before the disk totally died.
> Now I need to find a time to put that backup on a new disk and
> install it in the machine.
>
> Anyone running Mac OS X 10.4/PowerPC want to try a build?
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Cosmin S wrote:
>
> Super,
>
> Just what I've looking for!
> Is there a chance to get the nightly autobuild for ppc?
>
> C.
>
>> From: h...@at.or.at
>> To: p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
>> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0500
>> CC: pd-list@iem.at
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>>
>>
>> Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in /
>> Applications. Its named differently, so you can have both at the same
>> time, you can have them both runniung too.
>>
>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>
>>> okay
>>> i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
>>> where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so
>>> it does not overwrite my current pd
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
>>> To: Pagano, Patrick
>>> Cc: pd-list@iem.at
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>>>
>>> IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the
>>> Pd-
>>> extended builds. So it would be good if you could test it so we can
>>> fix things before the release. For Mac OS X, its now included in the
>>> nightly builds as of today:
>>>
>>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
>>>
>>> If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/
>>> Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>>
 Hi

 I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
 provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
 rather cloudy
 as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

 Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build
 it?
 Do i need GEM sources etc?
 Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
 properly?
 I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

 Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other
 than
 pix_?

 Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
 bit but it works very well for large scale databases and
 integration
 with pd/GEM would be wonderful

 pp

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 Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
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 http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> "It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we
>>> don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
>>> Environmentalism", by Curtis White
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

It seems you need to have a camera_para.dat and patt.hiro.  Do you  
have those?


http://www.hitl.washington.edu/artoolkit/mail-archive/message-thread-00942-Unable-to-set-up-AR-came.html

Maybe we could include your help patch with Gem?  There is currently  
none that I know of.  I can check it in if you are ok with that.


.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


okay when i run it i get
[pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit support by Shigeyuki Hirai

YEAH

but when i run the help patch i get

error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: Camera parameter load error (-1) !!
error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: pattern load error (-1) !!

Is there another help patch to test/try with?
I have attached the one i have.

pp




From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of  
Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]

Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
To: Cosmin S
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

The powerpc build machine is still down.  I think I managed to get a  
complete backup of the old machine before the disk totally died.   
Now I need to find a time to put that backup on a new disk and  
install it in the machine.


Anyone running Mac OS X 10.4/PowerPC want to try a build?

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Cosmin S wrote:

Super,

Just what I've looking for!
Is there a chance to get the nightly autobuild for ppc?

C.


From: h...@at.or.at
To: p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0500
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?


Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in /
Applications. Its named differently, so you can have both at the same
time, you can have them both runniung too.

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


okay
i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so
it does not overwrite my current pd



From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the
Pd-
extended builds. So it would be good if you could test it so we can
fix things before the release. For Mac OS X, its now included in the
nightly builds as of today:

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/
Ubuntu.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


Hi

I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
rather cloudy
as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build
it?
Do i need GEM sources etc?
Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
properly?
I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other  
than

pix_?

Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
bit but it works very well for large scale databases and  
integration

with pd/GEM would be wonderful

pp

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don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
Environmentalism", by Curtis White










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Re: [PD] puredata.info / members / embed

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

THere are a bunch of videos embedded in the exhibition pages:

http://puredata.info/exhibition

While you are there, add an article on your favorite Pd project to the  
exhibition:


http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:07 PM, patrick wrote:


hi,

i was trying to embed a vimeo video in my personnal page on  
puredata.info/members, but the code it's not working. i think it's  
working for an article (not a page). is it possible to add this  
feature in page?


pat


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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

okay when i run it i get 
[pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit support by Shigeyuki Hirai 

YEAH

but when i run the help patch i get 

error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: Camera parameter load error (-1) !!
error: [pix_artoolkit]: ARToolKit: pattern load error (-1) !!

Is there another help patch to test/try with?
I have attached the one i have.

pp




From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of 
Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
To: Cosmin S
Cc: PD list
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

The powerpc build machine is still down.  I think I managed to get a complete 
backup of the old machine before the disk totally died.  Now I need to find a 
time to put that backup on a new disk and install it in the machine.

Anyone running Mac OS X 10.4/PowerPC want to try a build?

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Cosmin S wrote:

Super,

Just what I've looking for!
Is there a chance to get the nightly autobuild for ppc?

C.

> From: h...@at.or.at
> To: p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0500
> CC: pd-list@iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>
>
> Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in /
> Applications. Its named differently, so you can have both at the same
> time, you can have them both runniung too.
>
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>
> > okay
> > i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
> > where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so
> > it does not overwrite my current pd
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
> > To: Pagano, Patrick
> > Cc: pd-list@iem.at
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
> >
> > IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the
> > Pd-
> > extended builds. So it would be good if you could test it so we can
> > fix things before the release. For Mac OS X, its now included in the
> > nightly builds as of today:
> >
> > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
> >
> > If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/
> > Ubuntu.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
> >> provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
> >> rather cloudy
> >> as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.
> >>
> >> Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build
> >> it?
> >> Do i need GEM sources etc?
> >> Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
> >> properly?
> >> I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)
> >>
> >> Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than
> >> pix_?
> >>
> >> Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
> >> bit but it works very well for large scale databases and integration
> >> with pd/GEM would be wonderful
> >>
> >> pp
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > "It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we
> > don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
> > Environmentalism", by Curtis White
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 
>
> ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
>
>
>
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list


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pix_artoolkit-help.pd
Description: pix_artoolkit-help.pd
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Re: [PD] How to access audio files from disk randomly?

[Roman Haefeli]

Hi James

Thanks for that hint. I actually _wanted_ to check [readanysf~], but
failed to compile it. But yeah, it would cover some of the given
requirments. Unfortunately, it does not seem to return the number of
channels of an audio file. Since i cannot test myself now: Is it able at
all to play multi-channel-files with a higher number of channels than 2?

I don't see any errors, when running ./configure. However, 'make' fails
pretty early:

ro...@yoyo2:~/pd-svn/externals/august/readanysf~$ make
make  all-recursive
make[1]: Entering directory
`/home/roman/pd-svn/externals/august/readanysf~'
Making all in src
make[2]: Entering directory
`/home/roman/pd-svn/externals/august/readanysf~/src'
g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I/usr/local/include/
-I/usr/local/lib/pd/flext/ -I../include/  -DUNIX -Wno-deprecated -Wall
-Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O1  -DFLEXT_SYS=2
-DFLEXT_THREADS -DFLEXT_SHARED -DFLEXT_USE_CMEM
-I/usr/local/include/flext  -DREAD_VORBIS   -DREAD_MAD  -DREAD_FLAC -MT
Input.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/Input.Tpo -c -o Input.o Input.cpp
cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wmissing-prototypes" is valid
for Ada/C/ObjC but not for C++
Input.cpp:2:22: error: iostream.h: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [Input.o] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory
`/home/roman/pd-svn/externals/august/readanysf~/src'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/home/roman/pd-svn/externals/august/readanysf~'
make: *** [all] Error 2


There are several packages delivering a file 'iostream.h', but none of
them puts it directly to /usr/include. I also did install all the
pre-requisites of readanysf~: libmad, libsamplerate, libflac, libogg,
working flext.

Help would be much appreciated.

Roman


On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 16:43 +, James Dunn wrote:
> What about readanysf~? You can send it [seek $1( and you can also get 
> the file length in seconds out with [route length]
> 
> Quoth Roman Haefeli, on 06/12/09 23:57:
> > Hi all
> >
> > Yeah, it's never too late for basic questions. Basically i would like to
> > create file player patch, that let's you pick a soundfile (be it a wav)
> > of any number of channels and a bit depth currently supported by
> > [readsf~] and it should be able to play from any position between the
> > start and the end of the file. 
> >
> > Usually i used a kludge by using [soundfiler] in order to get the number
> > of sample frames of the file and then i calculated the number of bytes
> > to be skipped in order to be able to let [readsf~] play the file from a
> > random position. However, this only works when the actual header size of
> > the file is constant (i.e. known and the same for every file; ok, when
> > the header sizes would be known, they wouldn't need to be the same for
> > all files, but you get the point) and when you know beforehand the bit
> > depth of the file(s), since [readsf~] reads it correctly, but doesn't
> > tell you about it.
> >
> > Now, i would like to be able to play wav files correctly with arbitrary
> > (unkown) bit depths and arbitrary (unkown) number of channels. Also, i
> > am looking for a way to be able to load both, simple RIFF WAV and so
> > called 'Broadcast WAV' files (the ones with a 'bext' header signature). 
> >
> > I also tried [wavinfo] from ext13. However, this seems to work only with
> > the former (simple) format, but not with broadcast wav-files. Funny
> > enough, [readsf~] seems to have everything needed built-in, since it
> > reads both formats correctly, it just does not expose those functions to
> > the pd patch (as this unfortunately is often the problem with many
> > object classes). 
> >
> > Any idea or pointers to other externals welcome!
> >
> > Roman
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >   
> 
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[PD] puredata.info / members / embed

[patrick]

hi,

i was trying to embed a vimeo video in my personnal page on 
puredata.info/members, but the code it's not working. i think it's 
working for an article (not a page). is it possible to add this feature 
in page?


pat


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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Roman Haefeli]

On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 16:26 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> > Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?
> 
> If you want to say something, I would suggest that you use complete 
> sentences.

Why so hostile?
(Sorry for not having made a complete sentence.)

Seriously, giving anwers that are not real sentences is not so abnormal
for a mailing list, is it?

roman


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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Michal Seta]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Pagano, Patrick
 wrote:
> i think it took longer to compile jMax than it actually existed.

Haha :)
And trying to run it was sisyphean?

./MiS

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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

Mathieu Bouchard escribió:

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?


If you want to say something, I would suggest that you use complete 
sentences.




Mathieu Bouchard escribió:
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
>> Here's a friendly suggestion, instead of spending time writing giant
>> emails, spend that time trying to isolate the bugs that you are
>> complaining about.
>
> [...] Here's a friendly suggestion : stop replying to mails that you 
don't

> read and don't care about.
>
>


Do you genuinely hate Hans-Cristoph or is it a joke/game between 
long-time friends?


:)

--
Matteo Sisti Sette
matteosistise...@gmail.com
http://www.matteosistisette.com

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Re: [PD] (ot) knitting

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Wow, that's a ton of knitting...


That's why it uses only two shades of wool, because knitting more than two 
colours takes a lot more time. Knitting one frame in two colours is easy: 
you just put the punchcard in the machine and then you drag the carriage 
left and right until the frame is done, whereas for more colours you may 
have to spend a lot of time swapping colours at each scanline... I don't 
know today's machines, but I suspect it's all the same, otherwise they'd 
have used more colours.


This music video was made in Montréal, btw.

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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

The powerpc build machine is still down.  I think I managed to get a  
complete backup of the old machine before the disk totally died.  Now  
I need to find a time to put that backup on a new disk and install it  
in the machine.


Anyone running Mac OS X 10.4/PowerPC want to try a build?

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Cosmin S wrote:


Super,

Just what I've looking for!
Is there a chance to get the nightly autobuild for ppc?

C.

> From: h...@at.or.at
> To: p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:05:33 -0500
> CC: pd-list@iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
>
>
> Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in /
> Applications. Its named differently, so you can have both at the  
same

> time, you can have them both runniung too.
>
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>
> > okay
> > i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
> > where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel  
so

> > it does not overwrite my current pd
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
> > To: Pagano, Patrick
> > Cc: pd-list@iem.at
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?
> >
> > IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of  
the

> > Pd-
> > extended builds. So it would be good if you could test it so we  
can
> > fix things before the release. For Mac OS X, its now included in  
the

> > nightly builds as of today:
> >
> > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/
> >
> > If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/
> > Ubuntu.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM  
to

> >> provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
> >> rather cloudy
> >> as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.
> >>
> >> Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to  
build

> >> it?
> >> Do i need GEM sources etc?
> >> Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
> >> properly?
> >> I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)
> >>
> >> Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other  
than

> >> pix_?
> >>
> >> Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's  
OT a
> >> bit but it works very well for large scale databases and  
integration

> >> with pd/GEM would be wonderful
> >>
> >> pp
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  


> >
> > "It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that  
means we

> > don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
> > Environmentalism", by Curtis White
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>  


>
> ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
>
>
>
> ___
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> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

PC, téléphones portables, souris hi-tech. à gagner grâce à Hotmail !  
C'est ici !






The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
King, Jr.



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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Pagano, Patrick]

i think it took longer to compile jMax than it actually existed.



From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of 
Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
To: Mathieu Bouchard
Cc: PD list; Matteo Sisti Sette
Subject: Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

On Dec 7, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:
>
>> From the main page of the Pure Data portal: "[Pure Data] is the
>> _third_ major branch of the family of patcher programming languages
>> known as Max (Max/FTS, ISPW Max, Max/MSP, jMax, etc.)..." (emphasis
>> added)
>> Which is the second one?
>
> No idea. Pd is not a branch of Max anyway.
>
> jMax is a branch of Max that appeared after Pd appeared.
>
> All the rest is a bunch of internal forks and renamings that were
> pretty much internal to IRCAM and that the outside world shouldn't
> care about.

Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?

.hc





All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies,
one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better
language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne



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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?


If you want to say something, I would suggest that you use complete 
sentences.


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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Dec 7, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

From the main page of the Pure Data portal: "[Pure Data] is the  
_third_ major branch of the family of patcher programming languages  
known as Max (Max/FTS, ISPW Max, Max/MSP, jMax, etc.)..." (emphasis  
added)

Which is the second one?


No idea. Pd is not a branch of Max anyway.

jMax is a branch of Max that appeared after Pd appeared.

All the rest is a bunch of internal forks and renamings that were  
pretty much internal to IRCAM and that the outside world shouldn't  
care about.


Max/MSP, Pd, jMax?

.hc





All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies,  
one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better  
language; and every chapter must be so translated -John Donne




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Re: [PD] (ot) knitting

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Wow, that's a ton of knitting...

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:


eheh.. crazy and awesome. Thanks for the link...

M

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Mathieu Bouchard  
 wrote:

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Marco Donnarumma wrote:

among the others " performative knitting needles" sounds so  
interesting. :)


Then you might be interested in this Knitting-machine-based Display  
Device:


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z5UoYdcakk

But it has nothing to do with Pd, FOSS, NIME, academics, galleries,  
etc.


(I wonder what they did with the 700 frames after they were done  
with the music video)


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| Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801



--
Marco Donnarumma aka The !S.A.D!



Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher -  
Edinburgh, UK


LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | 
http://www.flxer.net

EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net






"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are  
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from  
scarcity."-John Gilmore



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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Just download the Pd-extended for macosx104/intel and drop it in / 
Applications.  Its named differently, so you can have both at the same  
time, you can have them both runniung too.


http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


okay
i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so  
it does not overwrite my current pd




From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the  
Pd-

extended builds.  So it would be good if you could test it so we can
fix things before the release.  For Mac OS X, its now included in the
nightly builds as of today:

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/ 
Ubuntu.


.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


Hi

I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
rather cloudy
as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build  
it?

Do i need GEM sources etc?
Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
properly?
I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than
pix_?

Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
bit but it works very well for large scale databases and integration
with pd/GEM would be wonderful

pp

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  ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!



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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

okay
i am currently using Pd version 0.40.3-extended
where everything i am needing works, how can i install the devel so it does not 
overwrite my current pd



From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [h...@at.or.at]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the Pd-
extended builds.  So it would be good if you could test it so we can
fix things before the release.  For Mac OS X, its now included in the
nightly builds as of today:

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/Ubuntu.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to
> provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it
> rather cloudy
> as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.
>
> Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build it?
> Do i need GEM sources etc?
> Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit
> properly?
> I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)
>
> Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than
> pix_?
>
> Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a
> bit but it works very well for large scale databases and integration
> with pd/GEM would be wonderful
>
> pp
>
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"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we
don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
Environmentalism", by Curtis White





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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

okay, i am going to try from source

I'm going in!

pp

From: Mathieu Bouchard [ma...@artengine.ca]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:59 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner; pd-list@iem.at
Subject: RE: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

> I just simply have been lazy, and was not wanting to break stuff on my
> MAC [pdp/gem] bridge objects before a performance, can you point me at
> the proper files for Ubuntu/OSX so I can build it?

prebuilt for OSX >= 10.4
http://gridflow.ca/download/packages/gridflow-0.9.6-macosx104-i386.tar.gz

prebuilt for Ubuntu 9.10
http://gridflow.ca/download/packages/gridflow-0.9.6-ubuntu-karmic-i386.tar.gz

source
http://gridflow.ca/download/gridflow-0.9.6.tar.gz

note that the source code is not bundled with prebuilt packages (except
the abstractions)

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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

I just simply have been lazy, and was not wanting to break stuff on my 
MAC [pdp/gem] bridge objects before a performance, can you point me at 
the proper files for Ubuntu/OSX so I can build it?


prebuilt for OSX >= 10.4
http://gridflow.ca/download/packages/gridflow-0.9.6-macosx104-i386.tar.gz

prebuilt for Ubuntu 9.10
http://gridflow.ca/download/packages/gridflow-0.9.6-ubuntu-karmic-i386.tar.gz

source
http://gridflow.ca/download/gridflow-0.9.6.tar.gz

note that the source code is not bundled with prebuilt packages (except 
the abstractions)


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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

HA!

I just simply have been lazy, and was not wanting to break stuff on my MAC 
[pdp/gem] bridge objects
before a performance, can you point me at the proper files for Ubuntu/OSX so I 
can build it?

pp
 


-Original Message-
From: Mathieu Bouchard [mailto:ma...@artengine.ca] 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:15 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner; pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

> Okay, I have it working on OSX and Ubuntu [ Gutsy Gibbon] I know it's an 
> old flavor but it has everything working nicely [except gridflow!]

Ok. What's wrong with your install of GridFlow now?

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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

Okay, I have it working on OSX and Ubuntu [ Gutsy Gibbon] I know it's an 
old flavor but it has everything working nicely [except gridflow!]


Ok. What's wrong with your install of GridFlow now?

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Re: [PD] just out of curiosity

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

From the main page of the Pure Data portal: "[Pure Data] is the _third_ 
major branch of the family of patcher programming languages known as Max 
(Max/FTS, ISPW Max, Max/MSP, jMax, etc.)..." (emphasis added)

Which is the second one?


No idea. Pd is not a branch of Max anyway.

jMax is a branch of Max that appeared after Pd appeared.

All the rest is a bunch of internal forks and renamings that were pretty 
much internal to IRCAM and that the outside world shouldn't care about.


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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

Okay, I have it working on OSX and Ubuntu [ Gutsy Gibbon] I know it's an old 
flavor but it has everything working nicely [except gridflow!] 
I will DL it now and let you know.

pp


-Original Message-
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [mailto:h...@at.or.at] 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:54 PM
To: Pagano, Patrick
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?


IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the Pd- 
extended builds.  So it would be good if you could test it so we can  
fix things before the release.  For Mac OS X, its now included in the  
nightly builds as of today:

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/Ubuntu.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to  
> provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it  
> rather cloudy
> as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.
>
> Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build it?
> Do i need GEM sources etc?
> Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit  
> properly?
> I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)
>
> Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than  
> pix_?
>
> Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a  
> bit but it works very well for large scale databases and integration  
> with pd/GEM would be wonderful
>
> pp
>
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> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list









"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we  
don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of  
Environmentalism", by Curtis White





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Re: [PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

IOhannes and I have been recently working on getting it part of the Pd- 
extended builds.  So it would be good if you could test it so we can  
fix things before the release.  For Mac OS X, its now included in the  
nightly builds as of today:


http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2009-12-07/

If someone gets it going, then I'll package artoolkit for Debian/Ubuntu.

.hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:


Hi

I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to  
provide the models to use with it if possible. I am finding it  
rather cloudy

as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build it?
Do i need GEM sources etc?
Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit  
properly?

I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than  
pix_?


Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a  
bit but it works very well for large scale databases and integration  
with pd/GEM would be wonderful


pp

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don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of  
Environmentalism", by Curtis White






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Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding "$0" and dealing with it in messages)

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

That's some cool stuff.  What are the externals that are being used 
(esp. to hide patch cords and move the abstractions into place?


[gf/lol] has 4 methods: wire_dotted, wire_hide, box_dotted, box_align. 
Those are used by [doc_m] to move comments into place, and by [doc_also] 
to put «See Also» objects into place. Loading GridFlow also modifies the 
running Vanilla or Extended so that comments have an inlet and so that 
this inlet is hidden.


For moving the abstractions into place, however, [gf/canvas_getpos] and 
[gf/canvas_setpos] are used. If the patch gets any bigger than the patch 
window, [gf/canvas_hehehe] is used to auto-expand the window. 
[gf/canvas_hohoho] is used to draw dashed bounding-boxes.


Other new externals include [gf/canvas_count] and [gf/canvas_loadbang] for 
dynamic patching. [gf/canvas_xid] is used for automating screenshots. 
[gf/canvas_edit_mode] reports the edit state, [gf/canvas_setgop] allows an 
abstraction to change its own GOP settings, [gf/canvas_filename] allows a 
patch to know its own filename, and [gf/canvas_dollarzero] allows a patch 
to know the $0 of any of its parents («ancestors»). [gf/string_<] compares 
strings (to auto-sort [doc_m] elements), [gf/string_replace] is used a few 
times, and I don't recall what I used [gf/getpid] for (but it gets the 
process ID).



Are the pngs/movs in dd or pd-ext?


Still all pd-ext, simply because that's what people are going to use at 
the winter Pd workshop at Vidéographe. This new stuff doesn't work in dd, 
which will need an entirely different set of hacks anyway. Work on dd is 
postponed until the workshop is ready...


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[PD] just out of curiosity

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

From the main page of the Pure Data portal:
"[Pure Data] is the _third_ major branch of the family of patcher 
programming languages known as Max (Max/FTS, ISPW Max, Max/MSP, jMax, 
etc.)..." (emphasis added)


Which is the second one?
--
Matteo Sisti Sette
matteosistise...@gmail.com
http://www.matteosistisette.com

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Re: [PD] How to access audio files from disk randomly?

[James Dunn]

What about readanysf~? You can send it [seek $1( and you can also get 
the file length in seconds out with [route length]


Quoth Roman Haefeli, on 06/12/09 23:57:

Hi all

Yeah, it's never too late for basic questions. Basically i would like to
create file player patch, that let's you pick a soundfile (be it a wav)
of any number of channels and a bit depth currently supported by
[readsf~] and it should be able to play from any position between the
start and the end of the file. 


Usually i used a kludge by using [soundfiler] in order to get the number
of sample frames of the file and then i calculated the number of bytes
to be skipped in order to be able to let [readsf~] play the file from a
random position. However, this only works when the actual header size of
the file is constant (i.e. known and the same for every file; ok, when
the header sizes would be known, they wouldn't need to be the same for
all files, but you get the point) and when you know beforehand the bit
depth of the file(s), since [readsf~] reads it correctly, but doesn't
tell you about it.

Now, i would like to be able to play wav files correctly with arbitrary
(unkown) bit depths and arbitrary (unkown) number of channels. Also, i
am looking for a way to be able to load both, simple RIFF WAV and so
called 'Broadcast WAV' files (the ones with a 'bext' header signature). 


I also tried [wavinfo] from ext13. However, this seems to work only with
the former (simple) format, but not with broadcast wav-files. Funny
enough, [readsf~] seems to have everything needed built-in, since it
reads both formats correctly, it just does not expose those functions to
the pd patch (as this unfortunately is often the problem with many
object classes). 


Any idea or pointers to other externals welcome!

Roman



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[PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

Hi

I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i would like to use GEM to provide the 
models to use with it if possible. I am finding it rather cloudy
as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build it?
Do i need GEM sources etc?
Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit properly?
I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than pix_?

Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it's OT a bit but it 
works very well for large scale databases and integration with pd/GEM would be 
wonderful

pp

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Re: [PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[Felix Obée]

Thanks for the help everybody!

As I understand it, the Arduino uses the FT232 for communication with the 
computer. So it should be recognized by pd and comport. I'll do some soldering 
and see, what I get.

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/MiniUSB

Is there a further documentation for the comport object, apart from Martins 
helpfile?
I'm also missing a quick reference guide. Somehow OSX has hidden all pd-files 
from me (probably somewhere root?) and some overview would be nice.

The project will hopefully be well documented to the last resistor. Right now 
we're working on synchronizing the switching to the 0-phase of the sound 
played, to avoid producing crackles when switching.

cheers
ff





Am 07.12.2009 um 18:03 schrieb John Harrison:

> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Kyle Klipowicz  wrote:
> Not exactly, the Arduino Duemilanove uses the ATmega168 chip. I have no 
> knowledge of the FT232.
> 
> It uses the FT232 to communicate between the USB and the ATmega168:
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18027806/Arduino-Duemilanove-Schematic 

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Re: [PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Aaaah. Schooled me!

~Kyle

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:03 AM, John Harrison wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
>> Not exactly, the Arduino Duemilanove uses the ATmega168 chip. I have no
>> knowledge of the FT232.
>>
>
> It uses the FT232 to communicate between the USB and the ATmega168:
>
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18027806/Arduino-Duemilanove-Schematic
>
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] NIME concert at Southpaw in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 12/15 8-11pm

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

That's Tom Gerhardt from last year, we was spinning plates.  IIRC,  
that project used Pd.  You can see videos from last year on youtube:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsCJeP6_u6k

As for FLOSS, not all of the projects use FLOSS, the class doesn't  
mandate any particular tool.  Pd, Max/MSP, Ableton Live,  
OpenFrameworks are common.


./hc

On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:08 AM, olsen wrote:

sound nice! what's the guy with the dishes (last image on the  
website) doing?

ø

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

There will definitely be some Pd projects here:

NIME: New Interfaces for Musical Expression.
NIME: creating new performance tools for digital music.
http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/


In the eighth annual NIME concert, performers will play a series  
of newly designed electronic instruments that aim to keep the  
"live" in the live performance of digital music.


Electronic music is usually played with a keyboard and mouse.  
Laptop musicians often sit at a desk and give performances that  
are little more than watching someone make "office gestures." The  
idea behind NIME is to go beyond the mouse and keyboard and beyond  
even piano keys and drum pads. It seeks to present performance  
systems that make the most out of the new opportunities for  
musical expression that digital technology offers.


This year's NIME concert will feature such innovations as a  
musically enhanced sewing machine, sonified floor tiles,  
performative knitting needles, turntablism for live  
instrumentalists, electronically controlled cartoon antics, novel  
realizations of the rock guitar, and a host of other exciting  
approaches to the creation of music.


NIME is an end-of-semester performance by 16 graduate student  
artists from the Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) at  
NYU.


Entry is $7 (Free for NYU ID holders)
Doors open at 7, Show starts at 8


NIME @ Southpaw

http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/
125 Fifth Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11217


Tuesday, December 15, 2009
Performances 8PM-11PM
Doors open at 7PM


NIME at ITP
http://itp.nyu.edu/nime
Greg Shakar,
Hans-Christoph Steiner, +1-718-360-4872, ha...@nyu.edu

ITP
http://itp.nyu.edu
George Agudow +1-212-998-1891, george.agu...@nyu.edu

Southpaw
125 Fifth Avenue (at Sterling Pl)
Brooklyn, NY 11217
718.230.0236
http://www.spsounds.com

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Re: [PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[John Harrison]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Kyle Klipowicz  wrote:

> Not exactly, the Arduino Duemilanove uses the ATmega168 chip. I have no
> knowledge of the FT232.
>

It uses the FT232 to communicate between the USB and the ATmega168:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18027806/Arduino-Duemilanove-Schematic
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Re: [PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Not exactly, the Arduino Duemilanove uses the ATmega168 chip. I have no
knowledge of the FT232.

Comport works really well on OSX with Pd however. The only issue is that it
will crash Pd if you disconnect the USB without first disconnecting in the
software. This is in the bugtracker/list of fixes, so maybe sometime soon it
will be solved. Other than that, it works great.

Good luck on your project, and be sure to send documentation of the
completed work. It sounds interesting.

~Kyle

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Martin Peach wrote:

> The Arduino uses the FT232 or something just like it.
> You need to install drivers for it. They are included with the Arduino
> software.
>
> Martin
>
>
> Felix Obée wrote:
>
>> Hello together,
>>
>> this is my first post to this list, so please take it easy on me if I
>> missed some point or my problem is trivial.
>>
>> Here's the project:
>> I am building a system of approximately 200 little speakers that can be
>> switched on/off individually. This works via 4066 8bit-registers that are
>> filled by an atmega. I want to use PD to feed the atmega the bits that then
>> go into the registers. At the same time I want to feed a step motor and get
>> feedback about its current position.
>>
>> Here's the question:
>> Has anybody here experience with using an ft232 (
>> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT232BM.htm) with PD? It provides a
>> virtual serial port via usb and appears the easiest (cheapest) way to
>> communicate. I'm using OSX and drivers for the chip are provided.
>>
>> I am not at all firm with PD right now. Last time I used Max/MSP an thats
>> about 5 years ago. As I understand, the [comport] object works with OSX now.
>> I couldn't find much in the forum about sending data to the outside. Most
>> things seem to be done via Arduino and its derivates…
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>> cheers
>> ff
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>>
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[PD] Artoolkit with pure data?

[Pagano, Patrick]

_Hi

I have compiled and built ARToolkit and i woudl like to use GEM to provide the 
models to use with it if possible. I am finding it rather cloudy 
as how to use OSGart with it. BUt this begs a few questions.

Is there a working pix_artoolkit and how should i proceed to build it?
Do i need GEM sources etc?
Can someone comment or point to a way to use GEM with ARToolkit properly?
I would love to replace that HIRO with "something awesome" :-)

Are there any other ways to use ARToolkit with pd already other than pix_?

Also has anyone used OpenSceneGraph here on list? i know it;s OT a bit but it 
works very well for large scale databases

pp
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Re: [PD] rj dirlib now also a libdir

[Pagano, Patrick]

I am going to try to make my first scene this holiday downtime. I have been 
enjoying the scenes so far on the iphone. I even got a "skullcandy" headset 
mic. Terrific fun.

pp

-Original Message-
From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of Frank 
Barknecht
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:00 AM
To: pd-list@iem.at
Cc: rjdj-composers
Subject: [PD] rj dirlib now also a libdir

Hallo,

The rj library of (almost) vanilla abstractions to write RjDj scenes
now includes a "rj-meta.pd" meta file to ease usage of it in
libdir enabled Pd distributions like pd-extended. 

You can browse it at: http://trac.rjdj.me/browser/trunk/rjlib/rj and
download it together with the rest of the RjLib using subversion:

 svn co http://svn.rjdj.me/scenes/trunk/rjlib/

Of course you still need to make a copy of the "rj" directory into
your scene directory when using it there, so always test scenes 
with "pd -noprefs" first. The recommended way to use "rj" in scenes stays  
to add a [declare -path rj -path .]

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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Re: [PD] (ot) knitting

[Marco Donnarumma]

eheh.. crazy and awesome. Thanks for the link...

M

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Mathieu Bouchard  wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
>
>  among the others " performative knitting needles" sounds so interesting.
>> :)
>>
>
> Then you might be interested in this Knitting-machine-based Display Device:
>
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z5UoYdcakk
>
> But it has nothing to do with Pd, FOSS, NIME, academics, galleries, etc.
>
> (I wonder what they did with the 700 frames after they were done with the
> music video)
>
>  _ _ __ ___ _  _ _ ...
> | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801




-- 
Marco Donnarumma aka The !S.A.D!



Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK

LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
http://www.flxer.net

EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
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Re: [PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[Martin Peach]

The Arduino uses the FT232 or something just like it.
You need to install drivers for it. They are included with the Arduino 
software.


Martin

Felix Obée wrote:

Hello together,

this is my first post to this list, so please take it easy on me if I missed 
some point or my problem is trivial.

Here's the project:
I am building a system of approximately 200 little speakers that can be 
switched on/off individually. This works via 4066 8bit-registers that are 
filled by an atmega. I want to use PD to feed the atmega the bits that then go 
into the registers. At the same time I want to feed a step motor and get 
feedback about its current position.

Here's the question:
Has anybody here experience with using an ft232 
(http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT232BM.htm) with PD? It provides a virtual 
serial port via usb and appears the easiest (cheapest) way to communicate. I'm 
using OSX and drivers for the chip are provided.

I am not at all firm with PD right now. Last time I used Max/MSP an thats about 
5 years ago. As I understand, the [comport] object works with OSX now. I 
couldn't find much in the forum about sending data to the outside. Most things 
seem to be done via Arduino and its derivates…

Thanks for your help.

cheers
ff
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[PD] (ot) knitting

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Marco Donnarumma wrote:


among the others " performative knitting needles" sounds so interesting. :)


Then you might be interested in this Knitting-machine-based Display 
Device:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z5UoYdcakk

But it has nothing to do with Pd, FOSS, NIME, academics, galleries, etc.

(I wonder what they did with the 700 frames after they were done with the 
music video)


 _ _ __ ___ _  _ _ ...
| Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___
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[PD] FT232 and PD (OSX)

[Felix Obée]

Hello together,

this is my first post to this list, so please take it easy on me if I missed 
some point or my problem is trivial.

Here's the project:
I am building a system of approximately 200 little speakers that can be 
switched on/off individually. This works via 4066 8bit-registers that are 
filled by an atmega. I want to use PD to feed the atmega the bits that then go 
into the registers. At the same time I want to feed a step motor and get 
feedback about its current position.

Here's the question:
Has anybody here experience with using an ft232 
(http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT232BM.htm) with PD? It provides a virtual 
serial port via usb and appears the easiest (cheapest) way to communicate. I'm 
using OSX and drivers for the chip are provided.

I am not at all firm with PD right now. Last time I used Max/MSP an thats about 
5 years ago. As I understand, the [comport] object works with OSX now. I 
couldn't find much in the forum about sending data to the outside. Most things 
seem to be done via Arduino and its derivates…

Thanks for your help.

cheers
ff
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Re: [PD] snapshot misteries, bang to gemhead

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

Oh I see!

Thank you very much :)
m.


cyrille henry escribió:
here is a small patch that show the problem : when gemhead receive a 
bang while in double rendering mode, the transformation matrix send is 
incorrect.


so, finding a workaround is easy. just replace gemhead with the _gemhead 
abstraction that always output the correct transformation matrix.


c


cyrille henry a écrit :

are you sure you send the good patch?
this one is not "very simple" and does involve pix_snap.
c


Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit :

Yes the issue is indeed much simpler and [pix_snap] is not involved.

Attached is a very simple patch with a square and a sphere. The bang 
forces a render. If you move the sphere far behind the square and hit 
the bang, you can see a "flash" of the red sphere just close to the 
eye, as if it was in the opposite position than usual.


Is it normal, and if so, what is the explanation???



Matteo Sisti Sette escribió:

Hi,

I'm working on a patch (not the attached one which is an example 
that isolates the problem), where from time to time I need to take a 
snapshot of the whole scene and "draw" it as a texture on a 
rectangle which is on the background.


(when the patch is finished I think I will be allowed to share it, 
for what it's worth)


I have it all working fine, but than I came into a problem: 
sometimes, I have to send a message to take the snapshot, and 
immediately after, send some other message that changes something on 
the scene, which has to happen AFTER the snapshot.


Since I am taking snapshots in the "classic" way, that is, opening a 
spigot on the gemlist that comes to the [pix_snap], the snapshot is 
actually deferred until the next render; this is a problem because I 
need to "defer" any other message that has to take effet just after 
the sbapshot; this can be done but i'd like to avoid all the 
complications.


I thought that a solution would be to force a render just after any 
snapshot, by sending a bang to the gemhead that is rendering 
everithing.
However, the result is not what I expected and I really can't 
understand why.

That's why I am asking for your help.

So, the attached patch is a simplification, in which I draw an 
initially white square and a sphere. If you hit the big bang (sorry 
for the pun), a snapshot of the scene is taken via [pix_snap] and it 
becomes the texture of the square. You can use the number box to 
move the sphere around.


Now, if I make the connection where it says "connect this", what I 
am doing is just provoking a bang to the gemhead just after opening 
the spigot to the pix_snap. What I would expect is that it should 
work exactly the same as before (with the difference that an extra 
frame is rendered between two "normal" frames, and that's the moment 
the snapshot is taken; but this difference should not be "visible").
However, the observed behaviour is not this. The snapshot that is 
taken and "printed" on the texture is not the scene, but some 
aberration of it. If you leave the sphere wher it is, it will 
usually render and snap an all-black scene; but if you move the 
sphere to the back, behind the square, the snapshot will take the 
sphere very near to the "eye"..


I really don't understand. Doesn't the bang to the gemhead provoke a 
full render of everything just the same as it is rendered when a new 
frame occurs? Then why is the scene rendered differently when I do 
the bang


I guess this could be further isolated to something regarding the 
bang to gemhead, i.e. without involving pix_snap; of course with a 
"fast" enough to see what happens during a single extra frame


Thanks in advance
By the way, thanks to all who gave me example patches some days ago 
which have helped me building this patch.


m.







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--
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matteosistise...@gmail.com
http://www.matteosistisette.com

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Re: [PD] snapshot misteries, bang to gemhead ERRATA (attachment)

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

Hi, in my previous message I attached the wrong patch. Here's the 
correct one.


Matteo Sisti Sette escribió:

Yes the issue is indeed much simpler and [pix_snap] is not involved.

Attached is a very simple patch with a square and a sphere. The bang 
forces a render. If you move the sphere far behind the square and hit 
the bang, you can see a "flash" of the red sphere just close to the eye, 
as if it was in the opposite position than usual.


Is it normal, and if so, what is the explanation???



Matteo Sisti Sette escribió:

Hi,

I'm working on a patch (not the attached one which is an example that 
isolates the problem), where from time to time I need to take a 
snapshot of the whole scene and "draw" it as a texture on a rectangle 
which is on the background.


(when the patch is finished I think I will be allowed to share it, for 
what it's worth)


I have it all working fine, but than I came into a problem: sometimes, 
I have to send a message to take the snapshot, and immediately after, 
send some other message that changes something on the scene, which has 
to happen AFTER the snapshot.


Since I am taking snapshots in the "classic" way, that is, opening a 
spigot on the gemlist that comes to the [pix_snap], the snapshot is 
actually deferred until the next render; this is a problem because I 
need to "defer" any other message that has to take effet just after 
the sbapshot; this can be done but i'd like to avoid all the 
complications.


I thought that a solution would be to force a render just after any 
snapshot, by sending a bang to the gemhead that is rendering everithing.
However, the result is not what I expected and I really can't 
understand why.

That's why I am asking for your help.

So, the attached patch is a simplification, in which I draw an 
initially white square and a sphere. If you hit the big bang (sorry 
for the pun), a snapshot of the scene is taken via [pix_snap] and it 
becomes the texture of the square. You can use the number box to move 
the sphere around.


Now, if I make the connection where it says "connect this", what I am 
doing is just provoking a bang to the gemhead just after opening the 
spigot to the pix_snap. What I would expect is that it should work 
exactly the same as before (with the difference that an extra frame is 
rendered between two "normal" frames, and that's the moment the 
snapshot is taken; but this difference should not be "visible").
However, the observed behaviour is not this. The snapshot that is 
taken and "printed" on the texture is not the scene, but some 
aberration of it. If you leave the sphere wher it is, it will usually 
render and snap an all-black scene; but if you move the sphere to the 
back, behind the square, the snapshot will take the sphere very near 
to the "eye"..


I really don't understand. Doesn't the bang to the gemhead provoke a 
full render of everything just the same as it is rendered when a new 
frame occurs? Then why is the scene rendered differently when I do the 
bang


I guess this could be further isolated to something regarding the bang 
to gemhead, i.e. without involving pix_snap; of course with a "fast" 
enough to see what happens during a single extra frame


Thanks in advance
By the way, thanks to all who gave me example patches some days ago 
which have helped me building this patch.


m.







--
Matteo Sisti Sette
matteosistise...@gmail.com
http://www.matteosistisette.com
#N canvas 480 155 635 593 12;
#X obj 304 560 gemwin;
#X msg 377 514 destroy;
#X obj 192 96 gemhead;
#X obj 192 131 t a a a;
#X obj 460 217 separator;
#X obj 461 336 square 3;
#X obj 189 256 rotateXYZ 0 0 0;
#X floatatom 347 67 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 190 184 separator;
#X obj 198 400 color 1 0 0;
#X obj 198 425 sphere 1;
#X obj 198 368 translateXYZ 0 0 1;
#X msg 272 487 dimen 400 400 \, create \, 1;
#X text 306 696 ;
#X obj 460 246 pix_separator;
#X obj 460 276 color 1 1 1;
#X obj 186 220 pix_separator;
#X obj 187 32 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 1 8 0;
#X connect 3 2 4 0;
#X connect 4 0 14 0;
#X connect 6 0 11 0;
#X connect 7 0 6 2;
#X connect 8 0 16 0;
#X connect 9 0 10 0;
#X connect 11 0 9 0;
#X connect 12 0 0 0;
#X connect 14 0 15 0;
#X connect 15 0 5 0;
#X connect 16 0 6 0;
#X connect 17 0 2 0;
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[PD] rj dirlib now also a libdir

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,

The rj library of (almost) vanilla abstractions to write RjDj scenes
now includes a "rj-meta.pd" meta file to ease usage of it in
libdir enabled Pd distributions like pd-extended. 

You can browse it at: http://trac.rjdj.me/browser/trunk/rjlib/rj and
download it together with the rest of the RjLib using subversion:

 svn co http://svn.rjdj.me/scenes/trunk/rjlib/

Of course you still need to make a copy of the "rj" directory into
your scene directory when using it there, so always test scenes 
with "pd -noprefs" first. The recommended way to use "rj" in scenes stays  
to add a [declare -path rj -path .]

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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Re: [PD] snapshot misteries, bang to gemhead

[cyrille henry]

are you sure you send the good patch?
this one is not "very simple" and does involve pix_snap.
c


Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit :

Yes the issue is indeed much simpler and [pix_snap] is not involved.

Attached is a very simple patch with a square and a sphere. The bang 
forces a render. If you move the sphere far behind the square and hit 
the bang, you can see a "flash" of the red sphere just close to the eye, 
as if it was in the opposite position than usual.


Is it normal, and if so, what is the explanation???



Matteo Sisti Sette escribió:

Hi,

I'm working on a patch (not the attached one which is an example that 
isolates the problem), where from time to time I need to take a 
snapshot of the whole scene and "draw" it as a texture on a rectangle 
which is on the background.


(when the patch is finished I think I will be allowed to share it, for 
what it's worth)


I have it all working fine, but than I came into a problem: sometimes, 
I have to send a message to take the snapshot, and immediately after, 
send some other message that changes something on the scene, which has 
to happen AFTER the snapshot.


Since I am taking snapshots in the "classic" way, that is, opening a 
spigot on the gemlist that comes to the [pix_snap], the snapshot is 
actually deferred until the next render; this is a problem because I 
need to "defer" any other message that has to take effet just after 
the sbapshot; this can be done but i'd like to avoid all the 
complications.


I thought that a solution would be to force a render just after any 
snapshot, by sending a bang to the gemhead that is rendering everithing.
However, the result is not what I expected and I really can't 
understand why.

That's why I am asking for your help.

So, the attached patch is a simplification, in which I draw an 
initially white square and a sphere. If you hit the big bang (sorry 
for the pun), a snapshot of the scene is taken via [pix_snap] and it 
becomes the texture of the square. You can use the number box to move 
the sphere around.


Now, if I make the connection where it says "connect this", what I am 
doing is just provoking a bang to the gemhead just after opening the 
spigot to the pix_snap. What I would expect is that it should work 
exactly the same as before (with the difference that an extra frame is 
rendered between two "normal" frames, and that's the moment the 
snapshot is taken; but this difference should not be "visible").
However, the observed behaviour is not this. The snapshot that is 
taken and "printed" on the texture is not the scene, but some 
aberration of it. If you leave the sphere wher it is, it will usually 
render and snap an all-black scene; but if you move the sphere to the 
back, behind the square, the snapshot will take the sphere very near 
to the "eye"..


I really don't understand. Doesn't the bang to the gemhead provoke a 
full render of everything just the same as it is rendered when a new 
frame occurs? Then why is the scene rendered differently when I do the 
bang


I guess this could be further isolated to something regarding the bang 
to gemhead, i.e. without involving pix_snap; of course with a "fast" 
enough to see what happens during a single extra frame


Thanks in advance
By the way, thanks to all who gave me example patches some days ago 
which have helped me building this patch.


m.







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Re: [PD] snapshot misteries, bang to gemhead

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

Yes the issue is indeed much simpler and [pix_snap] is not involved.

Attached is a very simple patch with a square and a sphere. The bang 
forces a render. If you move the sphere far behind the square and hit 
the bang, you can see a "flash" of the red sphere just close to the eye, 
as if it was in the opposite position than usual.


Is it normal, and if so, what is the explanation???



Matteo Sisti Sette escribió:

Hi,

I'm working on a patch (not the attached one which is an example that 
isolates the problem), where from time to time I need to take a snapshot 
of the whole scene and "draw" it as a texture on a rectangle which is on 
the background.


(when the patch is finished I think I will be allowed to share it, for 
what it's worth)


I have it all working fine, but than I came into a problem: sometimes, I 
have to send a message to take the snapshot, and immediately after, send 
some other message that changes something on the scene, which has to 
happen AFTER the snapshot.


Since I am taking snapshots in the "classic" way, that is, opening a 
spigot on the gemlist that comes to the [pix_snap], the snapshot is 
actually deferred until the next render; this is a problem because I 
need to "defer" any other message that has to take effet just after the 
sbapshot; this can be done but i'd like to avoid all the complications.


I thought that a solution would be to force a render just after any 
snapshot, by sending a bang to the gemhead that is rendering everithing.
However, the result is not what I expected and I really can't understand 
why.

That's why I am asking for your help.

So, the attached patch is a simplification, in which I draw an initially 
white square and a sphere. If you hit the big bang (sorry for the pun), 
a snapshot of the scene is taken via [pix_snap] and it becomes the 
texture of the square. You can use the number box to move the sphere 
around.


Now, if I make the connection where it says "connect this", what I am 
doing is just provoking a bang to the gemhead just after opening the 
spigot to the pix_snap. What I would expect is that it should work 
exactly the same as before (with the difference that an extra frame is 
rendered between two "normal" frames, and that's the moment the snapshot 
is taken; but this difference should not be "visible").
However, the observed behaviour is not this. The snapshot that is taken 
and "printed" on the texture is not the scene, but some aberration of 
it. If you leave the sphere wher it is, it will usually render and snap 
an all-black scene; but if you move the sphere to the back, behind the 
square, the snapshot will take the sphere very near to the "eye"..


I really don't understand. Doesn't the bang to the gemhead provoke a 
full render of everything just the same as it is rendered when a new 
frame occurs? Then why is the scene rendered differently when I do the 
bang


I guess this could be further isolated to something regarding the bang 
to gemhead, i.e. without involving pix_snap; of course with a "fast" 
enough to see what happens during a single extra frame


Thanks in advance
By the way, thanks to all who gave me example patches some days ago 
which have helped me building this patch.


m.




--
Matteo Sisti Sette
matteosistise...@gmail.com
http://www.matteosistisette.com
#N canvas 598 102 635 593 12;
#X obj 304 560 gemwin;
#X msg 377 514 destroy;
#X obj 192 96 gemhead;
#X obj 192 131 t a a a;
#X obj 460 217 separator;
#X obj 461 336 square 3;
#X obj 189 256 rotateXYZ 0 0 0;
#X floatatom 344 67 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 190 184 separator;
#X obj 461 303 pix_texture;
#X obj 43 260 separator;
#X obj 198 400 color 1 0 0;
#X obj 198 425 sphere 1;
#X obj 198 368 translateXYZ 0 0 1;
#X msg 272 487 dimen 400 400 \, create \, 1;
#X obj 41 567 pix_snap 400 400;
#X obj 152 38 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X obj 84 382 t b b;
#X msg 81 427 1;
#X obj 42 459 spigot;
#X obj 41 496 t a b;
#X msg 109 462 0;
#X text 306 696 ;
#X obj 39 530 t a b;
#X obj 41 611 pix_texture;
#X obj 38 312 pix_separator;
#X obj 460 246 pix_separator;
#X obj 460 276 color 1 1 1;
#X obj 186 220 pix_separator;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 10 0;
#X connect 3 1 8 0;
#X connect 3 2 4 0;
#X connect 4 0 26 0;
#X connect 6 0 13 0;
#X connect 7 0 6 2;
#X connect 8 0 28 0;
#X connect 9 0 5 0;
#X connect 10 0 25 0;
#X connect 11 0 12 0;
#X connect 13 0 11 0;
#X connect 14 0 0 0;
#X connect 15 0 24 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 17 0 2 0;
#X connect 17 1 18 0;
#X connect 18 0 19 1;
#X connect 19 0 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 23 0;
#X connect 20 1 21 0;
#X connect 21 0 19 1;
#X connect 23 0 15 0;
#X connect 23 1 15 0;
#X connect 24 1 9 1;
#X connect 25 0 19 0;
#X connect 26 0 27 0;
#X connect 27 0 9 0;
#X connect 28 0 6 0;
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[PD] snapshot misteries, bang to gemhead

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

Hi,

I'm working on a patch (not the attached one which is an example that 
isolates the problem), where from time to time I need to take a snapshot 
of the whole scene and "draw" it as a texture on a rectangle which is on 
the background.


(when the patch is finished I think I will be allowed to share it, for 
what it's worth)


I have it all working fine, but than I came into a problem: sometimes, I 
have to send a message to take the snapshot, and immediately after, send 
some other message that changes something on the scene, which has to 
happen AFTER the snapshot.


Since I am taking snapshots in the "classic" way, that is, opening a 
spigot on the gemlist that comes to the [pix_snap], the snapshot is 
actually deferred until the next render; this is a problem because I 
need to "defer" any other message that has to take effet just after the 
sbapshot; this can be done but i'd like to avoid all the complications.


I thought that a solution would be to force a render just after any 
snapshot, by sending a bang to the gemhead that is rendering everithing.
However, the result is not what I expected and I really can't understand 
why.

That's why I am asking for your help.

So, the attached patch is a simplification, in which I draw an initially 
white square and a sphere. If you hit the big bang (sorry for the pun), 
a snapshot of the scene is taken via [pix_snap] and it becomes the 
texture of the square. You can use the number box to move the sphere around.


Now, if I make the connection where it says "connect this", what I am 
doing is just provoking a bang to the gemhead just after opening the 
spigot to the pix_snap. What I would expect is that it should work 
exactly the same as before (with the difference that an extra frame is 
rendered between two "normal" frames, and that's the moment the snapshot 
is taken; but this difference should not be "visible").
However, the observed behaviour is not this. The snapshot that is taken 
and "printed" on the texture is not the scene, but some aberration of 
it. If you leave the sphere wher it is, it will usually render and snap 
an all-black scene; but if you move the sphere to the back, behind the 
square, the snapshot will take the sphere very near to the "eye"..


I really don't understand. Doesn't the bang to the gemhead provoke a 
full render of everything just the same as it is rendered when a new 
frame occurs? Then why is the scene rendered differently when I do the 
bang


I guess this could be further isolated to something regarding the bang 
to gemhead, i.e. without involving pix_snap; of course with a "fast" 
enough to see what happens during a single extra frame


Thanks in advance
By the way, thanks to all who gave me example patches some days ago 
which have helped me building this patch.


m.

--
Matteo Sisti Sette
matteosistise...@gmail.com
http://www.matteosistisette.com
#N canvas 702 93 635 593 12;
#X obj 304 560 gemwin;
#X msg 377 514 destroy;
#X obj 192 96 gemhead;
#X obj 192 131 t a a a;
#X obj 460 217 separator;
#X obj 461 336 square 3;
#X obj 189 256 rotateXYZ 0 0 0;
#X floatatom 347 67 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 190 184 separator;
#X obj 461 303 pix_texture;
#X obj 43 260 separator;
#X obj 198 400 color 1 0 0;
#X obj 198 425 sphere 1;
#X obj 198 368 translateXYZ 0 0 1;
#X msg 272 487 dimen 400 400 \, create \, 1;
#X obj 41 567 pix_snap 400 400;
#X obj 32 34 bng 30 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X obj 84 382 t b b;
#X msg 81 427 1;
#X obj 42 459 spigot;
#X obj 41 496 t a b;
#X msg 109 462 0;
#X text 306 696 ;
#X obj 39 530 t a b;
#X obj 41 611 pix_texture;
#X obj 38 312 pix_separator;
#X obj 460 246 pix_separator;
#X obj 460 276 color 1 1 1;
#X obj 186 220 pix_separator;
#X obj 180 38 t b;
#X text 199 74 <== connect this;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 10 0;
#X connect 3 1 8 0;
#X connect 3 2 4 0;
#X connect 4 0 26 0;
#X connect 6 0 13 0;
#X connect 7 0 6 2;
#X connect 8 0 28 0;
#X connect 9 0 5 0;
#X connect 10 0 25 0;
#X connect 11 0 12 0;
#X connect 13 0 11 0;
#X connect 14 0 0 0;
#X connect 15 0 24 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 17 0 29 0;
#X connect 17 1 18 0;
#X connect 18 0 19 1;
#X connect 19 0 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 23 0;
#X connect 20 1 21 0;
#X connect 21 0 19 1;
#X connect 23 0 15 0;
#X connect 23 1 15 0;
#X connect 24 1 9 1;
#X connect 25 0 19 0;
#X connect 26 0 27 0;
#X connect 27 0 9 0;
#X connect 28 0 6 0;
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] NIME concert at Southpaw in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 12/15 8-11pm

[olsen]

sound nice! what's the guy with the dishes (last image on the website) 
doing?

ø

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

There will definitely be some Pd projects here:


NIME: New Interfaces for Musical Expression.
NIME: creating new performance tools for digital music.
http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/


In the eighth annual NIME concert, performers will play a series of 
newly designed electronic instruments that aim to keep the "live" in 
the live performance of digital music.


Electronic music is usually played with a keyboard and mouse. Laptop 
musicians often sit at a desk and give performances that are little 
more than watching someone make "office gestures." The idea behind 
NIME is to go beyond the mouse and keyboard and beyond even piano keys 
and drum pads. It seeks to present performance systems that make the 
most out of the new opportunities for musical expression that digital 
technology offers.


This year's NIME concert will feature such innovations as a musically 
enhanced sewing machine, sonified floor tiles, performative knitting 
needles, turntablism for live instrumentalists, electronically 
controlled cartoon antics, novel realizations of the rock guitar, and 
a host of other exciting approaches to the creation of music.


NIME is an end-of-semester performance by 16 graduate student artists 
from the Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) at NYU.


Entry is $7 (Free for NYU ID holders)
Doors open at 7, Show starts at 8


NIME @ Southpaw

http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/
125 Fifth Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11217


Tuesday, December 15, 2009
Performances 8PM-11PM
Doors open at 7PM


NIME at ITP
http://itp.nyu.edu/nime
Greg Shakar,
Hans-Christoph Steiner, +1-718-360-4872, ha...@nyu.edu

ITP
http://itp.nyu.edu
George Agudow +1-212-998-1891, george.agu...@nyu.edu

Southpaw
125 Fifth Avenue (at Sterling Pl)
Brooklyn, NY 11217
718.230.0236
http://www.spsounds.com




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] NIME concert at Southpaw in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 12/15 8-11pm

[Marco Donnarumma]

among the others " performative knitting needles" sounds so interesting. :)
Looking forward to some video material of the event...

Have all the projects been developed with FOSS?
i would be glad to write about it on VagueTerrain journal.


M



On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:04 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> There will definitely be some Pd projects here:
>
>  NIME: New Interfaces for Musical Expression.
>> NIME: creating new performance tools for digital music.
>> http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/
>>
>>
>> In the eighth annual NIME concert, performers will play a series of newly
>> designed electronic instruments that aim to keep the "live" in the live
>> performance of digital music.
>>
>> Electronic music is usually played with a keyboard and mouse. Laptop
>> musicians often sit at a desk and give performances that are little more
>> than watching someone make "office gestures." The idea behind NIME is to go
>> beyond the mouse and keyboard and beyond even piano keys and drum pads. It
>> seeks to present performance systems that make the most out of the new
>> opportunities for musical expression that digital technology offers.
>>
>> This year's NIME concert will feature such innovations as a musically
>> enhanced sewing machine, sonified floor tiles, performative knitting
>> needles, turntablism for live instrumentalists, electronically controlled
>> cartoon antics, novel realizations of the rock guitar, and a host of other
>> exciting approaches to the creation of music.
>>
>> NIME is an end-of-semester performance by 16 graduate student artists from
>> the Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) at NYU.
>>
>> Entry is $7 (Free for NYU ID holders)
>> Doors open at 7, Show starts at 8
>>
>>
>> NIME @ Southpaw
>>
>> http://itp.nyu.edu/nime/show/
>> 125 Fifth Avenue
>> Brooklyn, NY 11217
>>
>>
>> Tuesday, December 15, 2009
>> Performances 8PM-11PM
>> Doors open at 7PM
>>
>>
>> NIME at ITP
>> http://itp.nyu.edu/nime
>> Greg Shakar,
>> Hans-Christoph Steiner, +1-718-360-4872, ha...@nyu.edu
>>
>> ITP
>> http://itp.nyu.edu
>> George Agudow +1-212-998-1891, george.agu...@nyu.edu
>>
>> Southpaw
>> 125 Fifth Avenue (at Sterling Pl)
>> Brooklyn, NY 11217
>> 718.230.0236
>> http://www.spsounds.com
>>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 
Marco Donnarumma aka The !S.A.D!



Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK

LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
http://www.flxer.net

EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
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Re: [PD] [sigmund~] and [fiddle~]

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Jonathan Wilkes hat gesagt: // Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

> Can [sigmund~] do everything [fiddle~] can do (or do it better)?

I leave the first part of the question as a task to the reader of both help 
files. 
About the second part: In my tests, [sigmund~] indeed did it better. 

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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Re: [PD] PDDP (was: Finding "$0" and dealing with it in messages)

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Mathieu Bouchard hat gesagt: // Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>
>> I believe, a general purpose help file template should not require  
>> objects not available in all major Pd distributions.
>
> This is a contorted way to say that you only want vanilla.

I am using externals a lot, too. I just don't think they should be part of a
general help file template. I think, the help files inside of Pd-vanilla can
and should be improved as well. By adding dependencies outside of Pd-vanilla
to a template, it cannot be used inside of vanilla anymore. To me this indeed
is important. 

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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