Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 8, 2011, at 11:53 PM, ailo wrote:


On 03/08/2011 07:09 PM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:

Meantime,
does anyone want to share their ideas for a better looking style of  
the

site?
(font colors, dimensions, headers, etc, etc...)



I think I could help with that. I don't know plone, but I would  
assume it is possible to create personal css styles, if given the  
privilege, no?


If not, what is the best way to do testing?

Also, I think it would make sense to start with the theme that is  
used now, and just make it prettier. One step at the time?

Seems like doing a total revamp would take a lot of resources.



It would be nice to see the website look better, I don't have an time  
to invest in working on this project.  One easy first step would be to  
make a mockup of what you are thinking somewhere and post it.


.hc



Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.- 
David Zicarelli




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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[ailo]

On 03/08/2011 07:09 PM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:

Meantime,
does anyone want to share their ideas for a better looking style of the
site?
(font colors, dimensions, headers, etc, etc...)



I think I could help with that. I don't know plone, but I would assume 
it is possible to create personal css styles, if given the privilege, no?


If not, what is the best way to do testing?

Also, I think it would make sense to start with the theme that is used 
now, and just make it prettier. One step at the time?

Seems like doing a total revamp would take a lot of resources.

--
ailo

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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[ailo]

On 03/08/2011 07:54 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


I think it should be ok for you to get admin access.  But just to make
sure we are on the same page, we are talking about CSS/template work for
just the downloads page, not the entire site.  If you want to take on
the entire site, that is also possible, but that would mean getting more
people involved.

.hc


It would be nice to pimp up the whole site. I've only been messing 
around a little with that, using pre-made themes as templates. Perhaps 
that could be doable?

Something clean, simple and practical.
I would like to assist in that, if nothing else.

--
ailo

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Re: [PD] TouchOSC and Pure Data on OS X

[William Brent]

OSCulator is really fantastic, yes.  In this case though, I think it's
easier to keep things streamlined and route everything in Pd.  I
didn't think of it until your reply, Richie, but I made this
abstraction for touchOSC's "simple" layout.  Just invoke it with a
port number [ipad-interface 8000] and you'll get all the parsed data
flowing to well-named sends.  For instance, to get the data from fader
4 on page 1 of the simple layout, you can receive from [r
ipad-8000-p1-fader4].  Comb through the rest of the patch to see how
other sends are named.



On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Richie Cyngler  wrote:
> My problem with TouchOSC was getting it to see my laptop. I haven't been
> able to set up a network with just the laptop and TouchOSC (though I haven't
> tried for a while) this is supposed to work though.
> As far as using OSC in Pd check out the mrpeach library. It is awesome.
> I'm sure it's possible to get the OSC data to come straight into Pd but in
> regards to getting those messages all nice and neat and easy I recommend
> OSCulator (I have no connection to guy making it, I just like it). It's
> third party software. Very easy to use and works very well. It's OSX only.
> I've used OSCulator for wiimotes and wacom tablets... I'm not really using
> OSC at the moment, so I haven't had a chance to give TouchOSC a good going
> over yet, but OSCulator does support TouchOSC.
> Hope that helps.
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Wilfred de Zoete 
> wrote:
>>
>> I have recently purchased TouchOSC on the iPhone and have succesfully
>> controlled Ableton Live with LiveControl and iTunes and other programs with
>> OSCulator (AppleScript).
>>
>> When I try the PD-examples from http://hexler.net/software/touchosc I have
>> no succes. When I want to open the .pd file with the most recent version of
>> PD extended (0.42.5) I get the old watch and nothing happpens. This is also
>> the case with older PD's I use.
>>
>> I got the 'basic.pd' up and running before I installed one of the other
>> programs (LiveControl or OSCulator or TouchOSC Editor) but cannot remember
>> which one.
>>
>> I know that the .pd files have a prefilled [OSCreceive] (don't remember
>> the correct syntax) with port 8000. OSCulator has a default port of 8000 as
>> well. So I tried a cold boot and did not start up any other program than PD.
>> Even this did not help.
>>
>> Could this be the problem?
>>
>> Are there more people working with TouchOSC and PD? Can someone help me
>> trying to make a new OSCreceive from scratch with the correct syntax?
>>
>> System specs: iOS4.2.1 on iPhone 3G - OS X 10.6.6 on late 2008 15" MBP.
>> All software is up to date.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> Greets,
>>
>> Wilfred
>>
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>
>
> --
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>
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Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century

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ipad-interface.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] TouchOSC and Pure Data on OS X

[Richie Cyngler]

My problem with TouchOSC was getting it to see my laptop. I haven't been
able to set up a network with just the laptop and TouchOSC (though I haven't
tried for a while) this is supposed to work though.

As far as using OSC in Pd check out the mrpeach library. It is awesome.

I'm sure it's possible to get the OSC data to come straight into Pd but in
regards to getting those messages all nice and neat and easy I recommend
OSCulator (I have no connection to guy making it, I just like it). It's
third party software. Very easy to use and works very well. It's OSX only.
I've used OSCulator for wiimotes and wacom tablets... I'm not really using
OSC at the moment, so I haven't had a chance to give TouchOSC a good going
over yet, but OSCulator does support TouchOSC.

Hope that helps.


On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Wilfred de Zoete
wrote:

>  I have recently purchased TouchOSC on the iPhone and have succesfully
> controlled Ableton Live with LiveControl and iTunes and other programs with
> OSCulator (AppleScript).
>
> When I try the PD-examples from http://hexler.net/software/touchosc I have
> no succes. When I want to open the .pd file with the most recent version of
> PD extended (0.42.5) I get the old watch and nothing happpens. This is also
> the case with older PD's I use.
>
> I got the 'basic.pd' up and running before I installed one of the other
> programs (LiveControl or OSCulator or TouchOSC Editor) but cannot remember
> which one.
>
> I know that the .pd files have a prefilled [OSCreceive] (don't remember the
> correct syntax) with port 8000. OSCulator has a default port of 8000 as
> well. So I tried a cold boot and did not start up any other program than PD.
> Even this did not help.
>
> Could this be the problem?
>
> Are there more people working with TouchOSC and PD? Can someone help me
> trying to make a new OSCreceive from scratch with the correct syntax?
>
> System specs: iOS4.2.1 on iPhone 3G - OS X 10.6.6 on late 2008 15" MBP. All
> software is up to date.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Greets,
>
> Wilfred
>
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Re: [PD] TouchOSC and Pure Data on OS X

[William Brent]

Hi Wilfred,

I've taken a look at this recently and it works fine for me using the
OSC externs from mrpeach.  Try:

[udpreceive 8000]
|
[unpackOSC]
|
[print]

>From there you can see how the messages are tagged and do all of your
routing/parsing.



On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Wilfred de Zoete
 wrote:
> I have recently purchased TouchOSC on the iPhone and have succesfully
> controlled Ableton Live with LiveControl and iTunes and other programs with
> OSCulator (AppleScript).
>
> When I try the PD-examples from http://hexler.net/software/touchosc I have
> no succes. When I want to open the .pd file with the most recent version of
> PD extended (0.42.5) I get the old watch and nothing happpens. This is also
> the case with older PD's I use.
>
> I got the 'basic.pd' up and running before I installed one of the other
> programs (LiveControl or OSCulator or TouchOSC Editor) but cannot remember
> which one.
>
> I know that the .pd files have a prefilled [OSCreceive] (don't remember the
> correct syntax) with port 8000. OSCulator has a default port of 8000 as
> well. So I tried a cold boot and did not start up any other program than PD.
> Even this did not help.
>
> Could this be the problem?
>
> Are there more people working with TouchOSC and PD? Can someone help me
> trying to make a new OSCreceive from scratch with the correct syntax?
>
> System specs: iOS4.2.1 on iPhone 3G - OS X 10.6.6 on late 2008 15" MBP. All
> software is up to date.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Greets,
>
> Wilfred
>
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>



-- 
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www.williambrent.com

“Great minds flock together”
Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century

www.conflations.com

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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Chris McCormick]

On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 12:31:43PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Chris McCormick wrote:
>
>> This is not realistic. If you look at any large FLOSS project, patches  
>> lie dormant, are ignored, are rejected for the wrong reasons all of the 
>> time. Submit a patch to the Linux kernel and see what happens. Most  
>> likely it will be silently dropped.
>
> Do you mean we have to adopt and accept the same problems that are sure  
> signs of a project's overwhelming success ? Would that bring us  
> overwhelming success too ?

No, that is not my point. I'm sorry I was unclear. I meant to show a causal
chain that does exist in most FLOSS projects, including Pd. I did not mean to
advocate a particular style of software management, or the adoption and
acceptance of any problems.

The causal chain works like this:

 * You desire to contribute a patch to the project.
 * You post the patch and advocate it.
 * In advocating you avoid antagonising those who will do the applying.
 * Eventually the patch might be applied.

>> In my experience, the best way to get a patch accepted in most projects 
>> is to invest time in engaging socially. The reality is that often the  
>> onus is on the submitter to advocate for their patch.
>
> Don't you think a lot more patches would go through if the users wanting 
> the features weren't sitting around saying things like "the onus is on 
> the submitter" or just being quiet, and instead promoted the patches ?

Yes, that is almost certainly true. At last I have found a new years
resolution, thank you.

So now we have two ways to help patches go through:

 * Promote patches that you want to be applied.
 * Don't be a jerk.

> In a large project, people have the luxury to say things like "the onus  
> is on the submitter", because if that scares away 1000 developers, 
> there's another 1000 developers working on the project anyway.

I hope I have not scared away any developers. That is the opposite of my
intention.

>> In this case a sensible place to do that would be pd-dev list.
>
> I don't see the connection between babbling on pd-dev and getting a patch 
> approved by someone who rarely writes on pd-dev.

Consider this mechanism:

 * You convince yourself to write in a less hostile way.
 * You promote your patches on pd-dev (sure, "babbling").
 * Hans applies your patch to his version.
 * Miller pulls the change from Hans' version.
 * Everybody wins.

Realistic? To me it seems more likely to get a patch applied than active
hostility.

>> Demanding that your patch is more important than the other things a  
>> volunteer-maintainer might need to do with their time
>
> I thought you were trying to be realistic about the situation. We need 
> not invent additional problems.

I was referring to this statement:

"PS: the [delwrite~] clear method is still assigned to 'nobody', because it's
waiting for any of the five project admins to click on a button..."




It implies that the application of the [delwrite~] clear method patch has been
too slow for your liking, which implies that the five project admins should
have found the application of the [delwrite~] clear method more important than
whatever it is they have been doing which isn't clicking that button.

"Demanding" is too strong a word. I'm sorry that I used that word. Probably I
should have written "implying".

>> Likewise if you somehow imply that the maintainer owes you something
>
> Likewise if you somehow imply that a patch-submitter is bound by some 
> kind of onus, so that he does your promotion job for you, for inclusion 
> in a branch he doesn't need, for a patch he doesn't need either...

I'm sorry, this was badly phrased. I meant to say that given the condition that
the patch submitter wants their patch to be merged, then the onus is on the
patch submitter to advocate for acceptance of the patch.

Because you submitted the patch to the patch tracker, and then complained that
nobody had clicked the button, I assumed that you wanted the patch applied.
Your statement "for a patch he doesn't need either..." indicates that you
actually aren't interested in the patch being applied. If this is indeed the
case, please feel free to resume your normal trend of thinly veiled insolence.

You are correct that anyone who wants the patch applied should also do the job
of promoting the patch. I am convinced by that argument.

>> Seriously, I find it weird that I even have to write this.
>
> You don't "have" to.

You are correct, that was badly phrased.

Cheers,

Chris.

---
http://mccormick.cx

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[PD] TouchOSC and Pure Data on OS X

[Wilfred de Zoete]

I have recently purchased TouchOSC on the iPhone and have succesfully 
controlled Ableton Live with LiveControl and iTunes and other programs 
with OSCulator (AppleScript).


When I try the PD-examples from http://hexler.net/software/touchosc I 
have no succes. When I want to open the .pd file with the most recent 
version of PD extended (0.42.5) I get the old watch and nothing 
happpens. This is also the case with older PD's I use.


I got the 'basic.pd' up and running before I installed one of the other 
programs (LiveControl or OSCulator or TouchOSC Editor) but cannot 
remember which one.


I know that the .pd files have a prefilled [OSCreceive] (don't remember 
the correct syntax) with port 8000. OSCulator has a default port of 8000 
as well. So I tried a cold boot and did not start up any other program 
than PD. Even this did not help.


Could this be the problem?

Are there more people working with TouchOSC and PD? Can someone help me 
trying to make a new OSCreceive from scratch with the correct syntax?


System specs: iOS4.2.1 on iPhone 3G - OS X 10.6.6 on late 2008 15" MBP. 
All software is up to date.


Thanks in advance!

Greets,

Wilfred
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[PD] How do I squeeze more performance out of Gem?

[John Harrison]

I'm working with a high-powered machine but I'm running into a bottleneck
with Gem. I'm running at 20fps and at times was intending to have as many as
200+ lines and spheres on a 1024x768 screen. At around 60 lines/spheres I'm
already at 50% CPU. I know the problem is Gem because if I stop rendering,
CPU immediately drops to less than 4%. There's some other manipulations I
use periodically too causing another 40%+ of CPU so I'm a far cry from my
200+ intention while saturating my computational limits. If I turn lighting
off, BTW, I already gain 10% CPU back (not an option I want to explore.)

I'm not sure what to do and was even considering breaking the rendering into
independent screens (this machine has 8 cores), then using pix_share to
recombine them in a "master" instance. I'd have to use pix_snap to capture
each of the Gem windows in each of the processes, and each one draws about
40% CPU when capturing a 1024x768 buffer at 20 fps so besides creating a
headache for myself this is going to be a lot of CPU overhead. I also don't
know how the graphics card is fitting into all of this, if it would become a
bottleneck at some point, how to tell, etc. What's the "top" command for a
graphics card? :-)

These lines and spheres are nothing special, btw. No texturing, just
translates, colors, and alpha. the lines are made with curves of 2 points
each.

Is there some trick or some area of programming or using the graphics card I
need to be considering? Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated. It's
strange --- I don't think I'm seeing performance on this machine much better
than on my not-so-special laptop.

This machine has Nvidia GeForce GTX 460, Ubuntu 10.10 32 bit, Pd-extended
0.42-5 binary from the Pure Data site, Intel i7 3Ghz. I'm using Nvidia
proprietary driver 290.19.06.

When I say stuff like "40% CPU" I mean for a single core. So in theory this
machine has 800% CPU limit in my nomenclature. But since an instance of
Pd/Gem runs on only a single core, I have a limit of 100% for any single
Pd/Gem instance (as most of you already know I'm sure.)

-John

P.S. I'm loving working with Gem and pmpd these days. Awesome stuff, guys!
:-)
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Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary files")

[David]

Hi!

I looked at your code, and I think I understand it, more or less. But
I couldn't see where you're sending the 6-byte NRPN message before and
after the SysEx message. Isn't it necessary?

I got this information from a web site created by someone who
reverse-engineered the SysEx messages for the EWI USB:

http://www.ewiusb.com/

According to him, you have to send the '63 01 62 04 06 20' before each
SysEx, and '63 01 62 04 06 10' after the last one. You're not doing
that? I haven't tested any of this stuff yet, I'm a little paranoid
about screwing up my EWI. I can probably recover just by pressing the
reset button if something goes wrong, but I'd rather not take the
chance.

David.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Ingo  wrote:
> Oops, I just loaded the patch on a Windows XP machine. Looks like [midiout]
> is not working here. I guess the way to go would be NRPN on Windows. Unless
> there is another object that could handle SysEx that I am not aware of.
>
> Ingo
>
>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
>> Ingo
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2011 18:35
>> An: 'David'; pd-list@iem.at
>> Betreff: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
>> files")
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> here's a full EWI-USB editor.
>> However, it only works one way! Pd -> EWI-USB. It cannot retrieve data
>> from
>> the EWI.
>>
>> If you want to save your data you should specify a path (marked with red
>> "bangs") twice for loading and saving and you need to set the midi port.
>> Nothing else to do.
>>
>> I have tested it with Linux (Ubuntu). Not sure if it works on any other
>> OS.
>>
>> Hope it's useful for some people!
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ingo
>>
>>
>> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> > Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag
>> von
>> > David
>> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2011 03:07
>> > An: pd-list@iem.at; muran...@gmail.com
>> > Betreff: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
>> > files")
>> >
>> > Thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "you
>> > don't really need sysex", though. I have to send a 6 byte NRPN
>> > message, followed by a 14 byte SysEx message. I think I understand how
>> > to send the NRPN message, but I'm still confused about the SysEx
>> > message. Would I use [midiout] to do that? According to the help file
>> > in PD, this object is still undocumented and is only supported on
>> > Linux. Is that still true? And it only has two inlets, which I'm
>> > guessing would be an arbitrary 1 byte value and a channel number, but
>> > I'm not sure.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, none of these messages are documented in the owner's
>> > manual or on their web site, but someone has reverse-engineered the
>> > messages and posted his findings here:
>> >
>> > http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page1
>> > http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page2
>> >
>> > The whole stream (an NRPN, a 14 byte SysEx, the same NRPN again,
>> > another 19 byte SysEx, and a final NRPN) would look like this, for
>> > example:
>> >
>> > // sysex enable :
>> > 63 01 62 04 06 20
>> > // sysex message :
>> > F0 47 7F 6D 00 00 06 40 40 40 40 08 7F F7
>> > // sysex enable :
>> > 63 01 62 04 06 20
>> > // sysex message :
>> > F0 F7 7F 6D 02 00 0B 00 00 40 20 02 00 00 7F 00 7C 7D F7
>> > // sysex done :
>> > 63 01 62 04 06 10
>> >
>> > David.
>> >
>> > > Message: 1
>> > > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:07:59 +0100
>> > > From: Andr?s Mur?nyi 
>> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
>> > >        files")
>> > > To: PD List 
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >        
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > >
>> > > NRPNS are interestingly made up of CC messages so you don't really
>> need
>> > > sysex.
>> > > Attached [nrpnout] (original version by David McCallum) and [nrpnout-
>> > yamaha]
>> > > where CC numbers are modified according to Yamaha specs. You may need
>> to
>> > > match two of the four CC numbers with your gear (the other two are
>> > always
>> > > the same), and check if your gear needs MSB and LSB address or just
>> one
>> > > "NRPN number".
>> > >
>> > > Andras
>> >
>> > ___
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>

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Re: [PD] The economics of Open source

[Jose Luis Santorcuato]

Hi, A couple of years brought to Chile to Richard Stallman, I
participated in some way with GNU and I realized that most developers
live lectures and workshops, of their works.
The option to donate is very good, although I do not think it should
be sufficient to engage only the development, most of those who post
here have jobs in universities and occasionally give talks about Pd,
Arduino, Processing.
There is also an ethical commitment to the creator, musician and
teacher, who impregnates the community.

Some of your questions resolved them coming this year to study
programming and systems, along with helping Pd, we can develop our own
systems and not rely on an event like what is written in connection
with Ardour.

It is a big issue, especially for South America, which does not carry
(except in cases such as Wiring), and where we depend on good way to
what develops out.

Best regards

José

2011/3/8 Pedro Figueiredo :
> 
>
> On 8 Mar 2011, at 08:21, Pierre Massat wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I was trying to get Ardour to work last night and i came accross the forum 
>> on their website. I must say i was quite shocked to see how many posts were 
>> about money. I was equally surprized to see that the latest full version of 
>> Ardour isn't free (although you can name your price).
>> Now don't get me wrong : I think i can imagine the amount of work that was 
>> necessary to write a software like Ardour from scratch, and i totally 
>> understand that the team who wrote it may decide that they should be payed 
>> for it.
>> This leads me to ask two questions :
>> 1) What are the economics of open source software, and how sustainable is 
>> the model? How does it work for Pd?
>
> I don't know about Pd, but as someone that has worked with Open Source all my 
> life, the most common model is selling support and consultancy. Provide a 
> rock solid product and become the authority on the area it covers, and 
> everyone will pay to listen to you.
>
>> 2) I get the feeling that open source developpers used to think that the 
>> idea of free (free beer...) software was cool, but 10 to 15 years down the 
>> line (that is, now) they're beginning to realize that they can't keep on 
>> doing this forever. Am I wrong here?
>
> If anything, it's the complete opposite, Open Source has never been so 
> strong, and it's never been easier to contribute, thanks to places like 
> Google Code or GitHub (especially GitHub, as far as I'm concerned).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pedro
> 
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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[David]

Here they are. They prompt for the file name using [openpanel] and
[savepanel]. I'm not sure if that's what you really want. But it
shouldn't be difficult to modify them to pass a file name through an
inlet, or just hard-code the file name. They're built on top of Martin
Peach's [binfile], which is included in pd-extended. But if you're
using vanilla pd, you'll have to download Martin's code as well.

To use 'getfile', just send it a 'bang' and it will return a list of
floats containing the byte values in the file. To use 'putfile', just
send it a list of floats. It doesn't do any validation, so if the list
contains a non-integer or an integer that's outside the range of 0 to
255, you'll get one of the following errors, for example:

error: binfile: input (7.30) not an integer
error: binfile: input (100020) out of range [0..255]

David.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Jamie Bullock  wrote:
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2011, at 17:55, David  wrote:
>
>> Hi! I developed some abstractions for reading/writing binary files,
>> but they're somewhat limited in capability. They just load the data
>> into a list of floats (one per byte), or save a list of floats to a
>> file, and they read/write the entire file at once. They don't support
>> repositioning within the file, or writing/reading a portion of the
>> file. But if the files are relatively small, they might be suitable.
>>
>> I can send them to you later if you're interested, I'm at work right now.
>>
>
> Thanks, that would be great!
>
> Jamie
>
>
#N canvas 455 101 462 532 10;
#X obj 121 238 mrpeach/binfile;
#X msg 102 168 read \$1;
#X obj 102 127 openpanel;
#X obj 217 19 inlet;
#X obj 34 312 until;
#X obj 34 220 t b;
#X obj 230 382 t l;
#X obj 175 335 list prepend;
#X obj 105 352 t b;
#X obj 105 415 list append;
#X obj 105 482 outlet;
#X obj 217 64 t b l;
#X connect 0 0 7 0;
#X connect 0 2 4 1;
#X connect 0 2 8 0;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 1 0 5 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 11 0;
#X connect 4 0 0 0;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 6 0 7 1;
#X connect 7 0 6 0;
#X connect 7 0 9 1;
#X connect 8 0 9 0;
#X connect 9 0 10 0;
#X connect 11 0 2 0;
#X connect 11 1 7 1;
#N canvas 561 225 396 395 10;
#X obj 118 340 mrpeach/binfile;
#X obj 56 23 inlet;
#X obj 56 150 savepanel;
#X msg 56 193 write \$1;
#X obj 254 166 list split 1;
#X msg 166 186 writeat 0;
#X obj 56 79 t b b l;
#X obj 254 217 t b a;
#X obj 315 99 list;
#X connect 1 0 6 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 0 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 0;
#X connect 4 1 8 1;
#X connect 5 0 0 0;
#X connect 6 0 2 0;
#X connect 6 1 5 0;
#X connect 6 2 4 0;
#X connect 7 0 8 0;
#X connect 7 1 0 0;
#X connect 8 0 4 0;
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Re: [PD] The economics of Open source

[Pedro Figueiredo]

On 8 Mar 2011, at 08:21, Pierre Massat wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> I was trying to get Ardour to work last night and i came accross the forum on 
> their website. I must say i was quite shocked to see how many posts were 
> about money. I was equally surprized to see that the latest full version of 
> Ardour isn't free (although you can name your price). 
> Now don't get me wrong : I think i can imagine the amount of work that was 
> necessary to write a software like Ardour from scratch, and i totally 
> understand that the team who wrote it may decide that they should be payed 
> for it. 
> This leads me to ask two questions :
> 1) What are the economics of open source software, and how sustainable is the 
> model? How does it work for Pd? 

I don't know about Pd, but as someone that has worked with Open Source all my 
life, the most common model is selling support and consultancy. Provide a rock 
solid product and become the authority on the area it covers, and everyone will 
pay to listen to you.

> 2) I get the feeling that open source developpers used to think that the idea 
> of free (free beer...) software was cool, but 10 to 15 years down the line 
> (that is, now) they're beginning to realize that they can't keep on doing 
> this forever. Am I wrong here? 

If anything, it's the complete opposite, Open Source has never been so strong, 
and it's never been easier to contribute, thanks to places like Google Code or 
GitHub (especially GitHub, as far as I'm concerned).

Cheers,

Pedro

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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[João Pais]

Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that  
stops

reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a
few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to
anyone ?


I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember  
that

happening.


Since what year ?


since the year I dropped max for windows, around 2004 or something.  
between other reasons (OpS), max was crashing a lot, and only by looking  
at a metro it was possible to see that it wasn't that regular at all. to  
be fair, it was the first max version for windows, now is better.


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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

I think it should be ok for you to get admin access.  But just to make
sure we are on the same page, we are talking about CSS/template work for
just the downloads page, not the entire site.  If you want to take on
the entire site, that is also possible, but that would mean getting more
people involved.

.hc

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 18:09 +, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
> Ok, I'm reading the Plone documentation and as I imagined, it seems I
> do need to be admin to access and modify the css style.
> 
> IOhannes, how can we proceed?
> Do I need server access too?
> 
> Meantime,
> does anyone want to share their ideas for a better looking style of
> the site?
> (font colors, dimensions, headers, etc, etc...)
> 
> M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> wrote:
> 
> Awesome!  I don't know specifically, maybe IOhannes can add
> some
> details, but it should be a fairly standard Plone template
> thing, so
> check the Plone docs.
> 
> .hc
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 16:33 +, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
> > Hey,
> > I could give the CSS a go...
> >
> >
> > HC what do I need, how can I access the CSS styles?
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Pierre Massat
> 
> > wrote:
> > Is IOhannes the only member in charge of maintaining
> the
> > website?
> >
> > 2011/3/8 Husk 00 
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros
> >  wrote:
> > > Actually now the left menu and the tabs on
> the top
> > are redundant, and that
> > > scratches my obsessive-compulsive
> disorder.
> > > Since it seems that the left menu is the
> favorite
> > one, maybe dropping the
> > > top tabs should be cosidered.
> > >
> > > Caio Barros
> > >
> >
> >
> > I'm agree with that.
> > thanks IOhannes for the effort...
> > husk
> >
> > --
> > when Art become pratical
> > we call it technology.
> >
> > When Technology become useless
> > we call it Art
> >
> > www.estereotips.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ___
> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Marco Donnarumma
> > Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional,
> Performer,
> > Instructor
> > ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
> > The University of Edinburgh, UK
> > ~
> > Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
> > Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net
> | http://www.flxer.net
> > Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Marco Donnarumma
> Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer,
> Instructor
> ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
> The University of Edinburgh, UK
> ~
> Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
> Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | 
> http://www.flxer.net
> Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net



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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[Jamie Bullock]

On 8 Mar 2011, at 17:37, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> 
> mrpeach/binfile.  You might also want to check a recent thread on this
> topic from a couple of weeks ago.
> 

Ah yes, thanks. I did try Namazu first, but obviously my search terms were not 
good. Sorry for the noise.

Jamie


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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Marco Donnarumma wrote:

I agree one can freely complain on his own blog, but, hey, fact is 
you're still using a free software and the license is quite clear about 
it. No warranty, if it doesn't work as you expect go on for Max. Without 
bothering yourself and the others. If you really need to do it, you can 
in a far more polite and constructive way.


I went to read another older (2010) discussion about Pd on the same blog, 
and it made all pd-list arguments look like a happy family having fun. 
That blog is not for the faint of heart. Just ignore it.


(I would be curious to know how many new blog visits he has in these 
days)


It's probably better not to know.

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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[Andy Farnell]

I saw it quite recently.

A student showed me a patch where objects kept disappearing.
IIRC it would have been on a Mac with OSX 10.6 running
whatever was the extended release available end October 2010

I said is was probably a graphics bug and to reinstall.
AFAIK it went away.

This is pure superstition and folklore, but I'm sure
it had something to do with using [knob] objects.
Just a feeling in my bones.

a.




On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 14:21:23 -0500 (EST)
Mathieu Bouchard  wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, João Pais wrote:
> 
> >> Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops
> >> reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a
> >> few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to
> >> anyone ?
> >
> > I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember that 
> > happening.
> 
> Since what year ?
> 
> I think it was a fairly long time ago, although I do have a vague memory 
> of having seen the problem much later and having been surprised, but that 
> might have been simply because someone was using a very old version.
> 
> My guess is that it was something that got fixed in Pd 38 or so (2004), 
> but that's a bit of a wild guess.
> 
>   ___
> | Mathieu Bouchard  tél: +1.514.383.3801  Villeray, Montréal, QC


-- 
Andy Farnell 

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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, João Pais wrote:


Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops
reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a
few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to
anyone ?


I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember that 
happening.


Since what year ?

I think it was a fairly long time ago, although I do have a vague memory 
of having seen the problem much later and having been surprised, but that 
might have been simply because someone was using a very old version.


My guess is that it was something that got fixed in Pd 38 or so (2004), 
but that's a bit of a wild guess.


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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

On 2011-03-08 09:47, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

iirc, this was discussed on the pd-dev list prior to enabling the
"feature".

Is reading pd-dev a requirement for people who submit to the patchtracker ?
i don't think so. however, if people complain that there posts are not 
processed in the way they imagine that they should, they might want to 
familiarize themselves with the way others imagine it.


How does that not mean "I think so" ?

How would anyone find out about the rule, other than reading a few years 
of pd-dev until stumbling upon that thread ; or writing a mail that will 
be interpreted as being a "complaint" simply because "report" and 
"inquiry" aren't in the vocabulary ?


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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:


it's very simple:
each patch is assigned to a person (well, let's assume it is).


Why can we assume that each patch has been assigned to a person ? (What 
has to happen before that step ?)


whenever the assignee feels like it, they would browse to sf.net and 
have a look at the patches that are assigned to them if they have a good 
they, they eventually apply a given patch (considering they like how it


Can you write us what you meant to write instead of "have a good they,".

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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[Jamie Bullock]

On 8 Mar 2011, at 17:55, David  wrote:

> Hi! I developed some abstractions for reading/writing binary files,
> but they're somewhat limited in capability. They just load the data
> into a list of floats (one per byte), or save a list of floats to a
> file, and they read/write the entire file at once. They don't support
> repositioning within the file, or writing/reading a portion of the
> file. But if the files are relatively small, they might be suitable.
> 
> I can send them to you later if you're interested, I'm at work right now.
> 

Thanks, that would be great! 

Jamie


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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when 
they send someone else a patch.
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates.  I have done 
projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the 
sampling rate is set correctly.  Therefore its an essential property of the 
patch.


Ok, yeah, well, I do work in both 44100 and 22050, but I have nearly 
everything in 44100, and when I use 88200, it's only about part of the 
patch.


But anyway I was thinking more about stuff like -oss -audiodev -channels.

You are quite right about the sampling rate, but that means too bad for 
soundcards that don't support your patch.


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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Marco Donnarumma]

Ok, I'm reading the Plone documentation and as I imagined, it seems I do
need to be admin to access and modify the css style.

IOhannes, how can we proceed?
Do I need server access too?

Meantime,
does anyone want to share their ideas for a better looking style of the
site?
(font colors, dimensions, headers, etc, etc...)

M




On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

>
> Awesome!  I don't know specifically, maybe IOhannes can add some
> details, but it should be a fairly standard Plone template thing, so
> check the Plone docs.
>
> .hc
>
> On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 16:33 +, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
> > Hey,
> > I could give the CSS a go...
> >
> >
> > HC what do I need, how can I access the CSS styles?
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Pierre Massat 
> > wrote:
> > Is IOhannes the only member in charge of maintaining the
> > website?
> >
> > 2011/3/8 Husk 00 
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros
> >  wrote:
> > > Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top
> > are redundant, and that
> > > scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
> > > Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite
> > one, maybe dropping the
> > > top tabs should be cosidered.
> > >
> > > Caio Barros
> > >
> >
> >
> > I'm agree with that.
> > thanks IOhannes for the effort...
> > husk
> >
> > --
> > when Art become pratical
> > we call it technology.
> >
> > When Technology become useless
> > we call it Art
> >
> > www.estereotips.net
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Marco Donnarumma
> > Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer,
> > Instructor
> > ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
> > The University of Edinburgh, UK
> > ~
> > Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
> > Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
> http://www.flxer.net
> > Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
> >
>
>
>
>


-- 
Marco Donnarumma
Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor
ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
The University of Edinburgh, UK
~
Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
http://www.flxer.net
Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[David]

Hi! I developed some abstractions for reading/writing binary files,
but they're somewhat limited in capability. They just load the data
into a list of floats (one per byte), or save a list of floats to a
file, and they read/write the entire file at once. They don't support
repositioning within the file, or writing/reading a portion of the
file. But if the files are relatively small, they might be suitable.

I can send them to you later if you're interested, I'm at work right now.

David.

> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 17:15:19 +
> From: Jamie Bullock 
> Subject: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data
> To: pd-list 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does there exist an external for reading and writing raw binary data from 
> file?
>
> I tried with with [msgfile], which kind of works, but it doesn't give me an 
> identical file if I read/write e.g. a JPEG.
>
> Context: I have a student who works on 'glitching' images and video by 
> editing the files in a text editor and the saving. He'd like to experiment 
> with doing this dynamically in Pd.
>
>
> Jamie
>

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Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary files")

[Ingo]

Oops, I just loaded the patch on a Windows XP machine. Looks like [midiout]
is not working here. I guess the way to go would be NRPN on Windows. Unless
there is another object that could handle SysEx that I am not aware of.

Ingo


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
> Ingo
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2011 18:35
> An: 'David'; pd-list@iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
> files")
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> here's a full EWI-USB editor.
> However, it only works one way! Pd -> EWI-USB. It cannot retrieve data
> from
> the EWI.
> 
> If you want to save your data you should specify a path (marked with red
> "bangs") twice for loading and saving and you need to set the midi port.
> Nothing else to do.
> 
> I have tested it with Linux (Ubuntu). Not sure if it works on any other
> OS.
> 
> Hope it's useful for some people!
> 
> Cheers
> Ingo
> 
> 
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag
> von
> > David
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2011 03:07
> > An: pd-list@iem.at; muran...@gmail.com
> > Betreff: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
> > files")
> >
> > Thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "you
> > don't really need sysex", though. I have to send a 6 byte NRPN
> > message, followed by a 14 byte SysEx message. I think I understand how
> > to send the NRPN message, but I'm still confused about the SysEx
> > message. Would I use [midiout] to do that? According to the help file
> > in PD, this object is still undocumented and is only supported on
> > Linux. Is that still true? And it only has two inlets, which I'm
> > guessing would be an arbitrary 1 byte value and a channel number, but
> > I'm not sure.
> >
> > Unfortunately, none of these messages are documented in the owner's
> > manual or on their web site, but someone has reverse-engineered the
> > messages and posted his findings here:
> >
> > http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page1
> > http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page2
> >
> > The whole stream (an NRPN, a 14 byte SysEx, the same NRPN again,
> > another 19 byte SysEx, and a final NRPN) would look like this, for
> > example:
> >
> > // sysex enable :
> > 63 01 62 04 06 20
> > // sysex message :
> > F0 47 7F 6D 00 00 06 40 40 40 40 08 7F F7
> > // sysex enable :
> > 63 01 62 04 06 20
> > // sysex message :
> > F0 F7 7F 6D 02 00 0B 00 00 40 20 02 00 00 7F 00 7C 7D F7
> > // sysex done :
> > 63 01 62 04 06 10
> >
> > David.
> >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:07:59 +0100
> > > From: Andr?s Mur?nyi 
> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
> > >        files")
> > > To: PD List 
> > > Message-ID:
> > >        
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > NRPNS are interestingly made up of CC messages so you don't really
> need
> > > sysex.
> > > Attached [nrpnout] (original version by David McCallum) and [nrpnout-
> > yamaha]
> > > where CC numbers are modified according to Yamaha specs. You may need
> to
> > > match two of the four CC numbers with your gear (the other two are
> > always
> > > the same), and check if your gear needs MSB and LSB address or just
> one
> > > "NRPN number".
> > >
> > > Andras
> >
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Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary files")

[David]

Thanks, I'll give it a try! I really only need it for Linux, because I
can use the bundled software from Akai on Windows.

David.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Ingo  wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> here's a full EWI-USB editor.
> However, it only works one way! Pd -> EWI-USB. It cannot retrieve data from
> the EWI.
>
> If you want to save your data you should specify a path (marked with red
> "bangs") twice for loading and saving and you need to set the midi port.
> Nothing else to do.
>
> I have tested it with Linux (Ubuntu). Not sure if it works on any other OS.
>
> Hope it's useful for some people!
>
> Cheers
> Ingo
>
>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
>> David
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2011 03:07
>> An: pd-list@iem.at; muran...@gmail.com
>> Betreff: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
>> files")
>>
>> Thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "you
>> don't really need sysex", though. I have to send a 6 byte NRPN
>> message, followed by a 14 byte SysEx message. I think I understand how
>> to send the NRPN message, but I'm still confused about the SysEx
>> message. Would I use [midiout] to do that? According to the help file
>> in PD, this object is still undocumented and is only supported on
>> Linux. Is that still true? And it only has two inlets, which I'm
>> guessing would be an arbitrary 1 byte value and a channel number, but
>> I'm not sure.
>>
>> Unfortunately, none of these messages are documented in the owner's
>> manual or on their web site, but someone has reverse-engineered the
>> messages and posted his findings here:
>>
>> http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page1
>> http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page2
>>
>> The whole stream (an NRPN, a 14 byte SysEx, the same NRPN again,
>> another 19 byte SysEx, and a final NRPN) would look like this, for
>> example:
>>
>> // sysex enable :
>> 63 01 62 04 06 20
>> // sysex message :
>> F0 47 7F 6D 00 00 06 40 40 40 40 08 7F F7
>> // sysex enable :
>> 63 01 62 04 06 20
>> // sysex message :
>> F0 F7 7F 6D 02 00 0B 00 00 40 20 02 00 00 7F 00 7C 7D F7
>> // sysex done :
>> 63 01 62 04 06 10
>>
>> David.
>>
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:07:59 +0100
>> > From: Andr?s Mur?nyi 
>> > Subject: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
>> >        files")
>> > To: PD List 
>> > Message-ID:
>> >        
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > NRPNS are interestingly made up of CC messages so you don't really need
>> > sysex.
>> > Attached [nrpnout] (original version by David McCallum) and [nrpnout-
>> yamaha]
>> > where CC numbers are modified according to Yamaha specs. You may need to
>> > match two of the four CC numbers with your gear (the other two are
>> always
>> > the same), and check if your gear needs MSB and LSB address or just one
>> > "NRPN number".
>> >
>> > Andras
>>
>> ___
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>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Jamie Bullock wrote:

Does there exist an external for reading and writing raw binary data 
from file? I tried with with [msgfile], which kind of works, but it 
doesn't give me an identical file if I read/write e.g. a JPEG. Context: 
I have a student who works on 'glitching' images and video by editing 
the files in a text editor and the saving. He'd like to experiment with 
doing this dynamically in Pd.


[open grid filename.jpg, headerless, type b(
 |
[#in]

Go in [#in]'s help and click on the 'grid' link, in the list of input 
modules.


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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[Jack]

Hello Jamie,

There was some informations on this list recently about [binfile] from
mrpeach.
Then use [read(, [writeat( and a list of bytes. Finish by [write(.
++

Jack



Le mardi 08 mars 2011 à 17:15 +, Jamie Bullock a écrit :
> Hi all,
> 
> Does there exist an external for reading and writing raw binary data from 
> file?
> 
> I tried with with [msgfile], which kind of works, but it doesn't give me an 
> identical file if I read/write e.g. a JPEG.
> 
> Context: I have a student who works on 'glitching' images and video by 
> editing the files in a text editor and the saving. He'd like to experiment 
> with doing this dynamically in Pd.
> 
> 
> Jamie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
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Re: [PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

mrpeach/binfile.  You might also want to check a recent thread on this
topic from a couple of weeks ago.

.hc

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 17:15 +, Jamie Bullock wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Does there exist an external for reading and writing raw binary data from 
> file?
> 
> I tried with with [msgfile], which kind of works, but it doesn't give me an 
> identical file if I read/write e.g. a JPEG.
> 
> Context: I have a student who works on 'glitching' images and video by 
> editing the files in a text editor and the saving. He'd like to experiment 
> with doing this dynamically in Pd.
> 
> 
> Jamie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary files")

[Ingo]

Hi David,

here's a full EWI-USB editor.
However, it only works one way! Pd -> EWI-USB. It cannot retrieve data from
the EWI.

If you want to save your data you should specify a path (marked with red
"bangs") twice for loading and saving and you need to set the midi port.
Nothing else to do.

I have tested it with Linux (Ubuntu). Not sure if it works on any other OS.

Hope it's useful for some people!

Cheers
Ingo


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
> David
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2011 03:07
> An: pd-list@iem.at; muran...@gmail.com
> Betreff: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
> files")
> 
> Thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "you
> don't really need sysex", though. I have to send a 6 byte NRPN
> message, followed by a 14 byte SysEx message. I think I understand how
> to send the NRPN message, but I'm still confused about the SysEx
> message. Would I use [midiout] to do that? According to the help file
> in PD, this object is still undocumented and is only supported on
> Linux. Is that still true? And it only has two inlets, which I'm
> guessing would be an arbitrary 1 byte value and a channel number, but
> I'm not sure.
> 
> Unfortunately, none of these messages are documented in the owner's
> manual or on their web site, but someone has reverse-engineered the
> messages and posted his findings here:
> 
> http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page1
> http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page2
> 
> The whole stream (an NRPN, a 14 byte SysEx, the same NRPN again,
> another 19 byte SysEx, and a final NRPN) would look like this, for
> example:
> 
> // sysex enable :
> 63 01 62 04 06 20
> // sysex message :
> F0 47 7F 6D 00 00 06 40 40 40 40 08 7F F7
> // sysex enable :
> 63 01 62 04 06 20
> // sysex message :
> F0 F7 7F 6D 02 00 0B 00 00 40 20 02 00 00 7F 00 7C 7D F7
> // sysex done :
> 63 01 62 04 06 10
> 
> David.
> 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:07:59 +0100
> > From: Andr?s Mur?nyi 
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
> >        files")
> > To: PD List 
> > Message-ID:
> >        
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > NRPNS are interestingly made up of CC messages so you don't really need
> > sysex.
> > Attached [nrpnout] (original version by David McCallum) and [nrpnout-
> yamaha]
> > where CC numbers are modified according to Yamaha specs. You may need to
> > match two of the four CC numbers with your gear (the other two are
> always
> > the same), and check if your gear needs MSB and LSB address or just one
> > "NRPN number".
> >
> > Andras
> 
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#N canvas 84 54 391 514 10;
#X obj 106 8 table ewi-usb_settings 17;
#X msg 16 28 \; ewi-usb_settings read settings/ewi-usb_settings;
#X obj 16 8 loadbang;
#N canvas 0 0 1172 370 send_sysex 0;
#X obj 420 328 midiout;
#X obj 420 248 t l b;
#X obj 57 141 tabread ewi-usb_settings;
#X obj 30 121 t f f;
#X obj 30 181 pack;
#X obj 30 86 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X obj 30 315 midiout;
#X obj 30 248 t l b;
#X text 94 294 set midi out port;
#X text 484 307 set midi out port;
#X msg 420 268 240 \, 71 \, 127 \, 109 \, 2 \, 0 \, 11 \, \$1 \, \$2
\, \$3 \, \$4 \, \$5 \, \$6 \, \$7 \, \$8 \, \$9 \, \$10 \, \$11 \,
247;
#X obj 447 141 tabread ewi-usb_settings;
#X obj 420 121 t f f;
#X obj 420 181 pack;
#X obj 420 228 pack f f f f f f f f f f f;
#X msg 459 308 1;
#X msg 69 295 1;
#X msg 30 268 240 \, 71 \, 127 \, 109 \, 0 \, 0 \, 6 \, \$1 \, \$2
\, \$3 \, \$4 \, \$5 \, \$6 \, 247;
#X obj 159 180 cnv 15 200 86 empty empty empty 20 12 0 14 -233017 -66577
0;
#X text 166 177 \$1 = Breath Gain (0-127) 64;
#X text 166 192 \$2 = Bite Gain (0-127) 64;
#X text 166 207 \$3 = Bite AC Gain (0-127) 64;
#X text 166 222 \$4 = Pitch Bend Gain (0-127) 64;
#X text 166 252 \$6 = ? (?) 127;
#X text 166 237 \$5 = Key Delay (0-15) 7;
#X obj 420 86 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X obj 246 28 inlet;
#X msg 246 55 set \$1;
#X obj 30 69 r \$0-bang_parameter_0-5;
#X obj 420 69 r \$0-bang_parameter_6-16;
#N canvas 1600 700 310 423 count_16-6 0;
#X obj 86 46 inlet;
#X obj 130 375 outlet;
#X obj 98 282 f;
#X msg 210 172 stop;
#X obj 86 84 t b b;
#X text 87 28 start;
#X obj 210 216 metro 1;
#X obj 113 180 + 1;
#X obj 130 282 - 1;
#X msg 113 160 16;
#X obj 22 222 sel 6;
#X connect 0 0 4 0;
#X connect 2 0 8 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 4 0 6 0;
#X connect 4 1 9 0;
#X connect 6 0 2 0;
#X connect 7 0 2 1;
#X connect 8 0 2 1;
#X connect 8 0 1 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 7 0;
#X connect 10 0 3 0;
#X connect 10 0 9 0;
#X restore 420 101 pd count_16-6;
#X obj 420 201 route 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16;
#X obj 30 201 route 0 1 2 3 4 5;
#N canvas 1600 700 310 423 count_5-0 0;
#X obj 86 46 inle

Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Chris McCormick wrote:

This is not realistic. If you look at any large FLOSS project, patches 
lie dormant, are ignored, are rejected for the wrong reasons all of the 
time. Submit a patch to the Linux kernel and see what happens. Most 
likely it will be silently dropped.


Do you mean we have to adopt and accept the same problems that are sure 
signs of a project's overwhelming success ? Would that bring us 
overwhelming success too ?


In my experience, the best way to get a patch accepted in most projects 
is to invest time in engaging socially. The reality is that often the 
onus is on the submitter to advocate for their patch.


Don't you think a lot more patches would go through if the users 
wanting the features weren't sitting around saying things like "the onus 
is on the submitter" or just being quiet, and instead promoted the 
patches ?


In a large project, people have the luxury to say things like "the onus 
is on the submitter", because if that scares away 1000 developers, there's 
another 1000 developers working on the project anyway.



In this case a sensible place to do that would be pd-dev list.


I don't see the connection between babbling on pd-dev and getting a patch 
approved by someone who rarely writes on pd-dev.


Demanding that your patch is more important than the other things a 
volunteer-maintainer might need to do with their time


I thought you were trying to be realistic about the situation. We need not 
invent additional problems.



Likewise if you somehow imply that the maintainer owes you something


Likewise if you somehow imply that a patch-submitter is bound by some kind 
of onus, so that he does your promotion job for you, for inclusion in a 
branch he doesn't need, for a patch he doesn't need either...



Seriously, I find it weird that I even have to write this.


You don't "have" to.


I speak only for myself and my own observations.


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Re: [PD] starting [pd~] causes: tcl: /usr/lib/bin/pd.tk: can't open script

[John Harrison]

I filed this into the bug tracker:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3202613&group_id=55736&atid=478070

As I mention in the bug tracker, you can get around the problem by adding
symbolic links:
/usr/lib/bin -> /usr/lib/pd-extended/bin
/usr/lib/extra -> /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra
/usr/lib/docs -> /usr/lib/pd-extended/docs

Anyway, after all that I seem to get better performance with the old model
of running separate Pd instances. I'm not communicating audio between the
instances so running separate instances and using sockets to communicate
between them continues to be a fine solution for me.

-John

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Husk 00  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:04 PM, John Harrison 
> wrote:
> > When I send [start( to [pd~] I get "tcl: /usr/lib/bin/pd.tk: can't open
> > script" in the command window.
> >
>
> Hi John,
> first try pddir flag to set the pd path. It could works.
> But if it doesn't, as for me, you can try to use pd-vanila (for [pd~])
> in conjunction with pd-extended libraries/externals (the extra dir).
> After a night of pd Chat and testing (different machines, different
> platforms) was the only way to get it working on linux. Seems to
> remember pd~ works correctly on MacOS X.
> I know it's not elegant but it's worked for me. I'm curious to know if
> someone get it working.
> husk
>
>
> > since /usr/lib/bin/pd.tk didn't exist I tried
> > ln -s /usr/lib/pd-extended/bin/pd.tk /usr/lib/bin/pd.tk
> >
> > still no go. I had also been getting other variations of file not found
> for
> > watchdog and pd-gui but symbolic links appeared to fix those:
> > ln -s /usr/lib/pd-extended/bin/pd-watchdog /usr/lib/bin/.
> > ln -s /usr/lib/pd-extended/bin/pd-gui /usr/lib/bin/pd-gui
> >
> >
> > pd 0.42.5-extended downloaded as a binary from the pd site, running on
> > ubuntu Maverick
> >
> > workaround?
> > --
> > John
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> when Art become pratical
> we call it technology.
>
> When Technology become useless
> we call it Art
>
> www.estereotips.net
>
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Awesome!  I don't know specifically, maybe IOhannes can add some
details, but it should be a fairly standard Plone template thing, so
check the Plone docs.

.hc

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 16:33 +, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
> Hey,
> I could give the CSS a go...
> 
> 
> HC what do I need, how can I access the CSS styles?
> 
> 
> M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Pierre Massat 
> wrote:
> Is IOhannes the only member in charge of maintaining the
> website?
> 
> 2011/3/8 Husk 00 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros
>  wrote:
> > Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top
> are redundant, and that
> > scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
> > Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite
> one, maybe dropping the
> > top tabs should be cosidered.
> >
> > Caio Barros
> >
> 
> 
> I'm agree with that.
> thanks IOhannes for the effort...
> husk
> 
> --
> when Art become pratical
> we call it technology.
> 
> When Technology become useless
> we call it Art
> 
> www.estereotips.net
> 
> 
> 
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> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Marco Donnarumma
> Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer,
> Instructor
> ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
> The University of Edinburgh, UK
> ~
> Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
> Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | 
> http://www.flxer.net
> Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
> 



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Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary files")

[András Murányi]

Sorry, it seems i didn't read your first mail carefully.
So you need NRPN and sysex. NRPN is easy then, you just have to check that
you use the right CC numbers. Sysex is easy too if you have a functional
[midiout] :o) otherwise it doesn't work. I couldn't find (i don't have the
first mails anymore), which OS are you using? On Linux, it works for sure,
on other OSs, give it a try because it may just work.
I recommend that you use a physical loopback to test the throughput: you
send out the MIDI from your interface and feed it back to its input and see
[midiin] if it arrives and if it arrives in its entirety. BTW the second
inlet of [midiout] and the second outlet of [midiin] are for port numbers,
which is not exactly the same as channel number: channel 3 of your second
MIDI interface would be 19 and so on. And you'll have to send a comma
separated list of decimals(!) to the first inlet of [midiout]: something
like [240, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 247(

Andras

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 03:07, David  wrote:

> Thanks. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say "you
> don't really need sysex", though. I have to send a 6 byte NRPN
> message, followed by a 14 byte SysEx message. I think I understand how
> to send the NRPN message, but I'm still confused about the SysEx
> message. Would I use [midiout] to do that? According to the help file
> in PD, this object is still undocumented and is only supported on
> Linux. Is that still true? And it only has two inlets, which I'm
> guessing would be an arbitrary 1 byte value and a channel number, but
> I'm not sure.
>
> Unfortunately, none of these messages are documented in the owner's
> manual or on their web site, but someone has reverse-engineered the
> messages and posted his findings here:
>
> http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page1
> http://www.ewiusb.com/sysex_page2
>
> The whole stream (an NRPN, a 14 byte SysEx, the same NRPN again,
> another 19 byte SysEx, and a final NRPN) would look like this, for
> example:
>
> // sysex enable :
> 63 01 62 04 06 20
> // sysex message :
> F0 47 7F 6D 00 00 06 40 40 40 40 08 7F F7
> // sysex enable :
> 63 01 62 04 06 20
> // sysex message :
> F0 F7 7F 6D 02 00 0B 00 00 40 20 02 00 00 7F 00 7C 7D F7
> // sysex done :
> 63 01 62 04 06 10
>
> David.
>
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:07:59 +0100
> > From: Andr?s Mur?nyi 
> > Subject: Re: [PD] Patch for Akai EWI (was "Reading and writing binary
> >files")
> > To: PD List 
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > NRPNS are interestingly made up of CC messages so you don't really need
> > sysex.
> > Attached [nrpnout] (original version by David McCallum) and
> [nrpnout-yamaha]
> > where CC numbers are modified according to Yamaha specs. You may need to
> > match two of the four CC numbers with your gear (the other two are always
> > the same), and check if your gear needs MSB and LSB address or just one
> > "NRPN number".
> >
> > Andras
>
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 16:28 +0100, Husk 00 wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros  wrote:
> > Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top are redundant, and that
> > scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
> > Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite one, maybe dropping the
> > top tabs should be cosidered.
> >
> > Caio Barros
> >
> 
> I'm agree with that.
> thanks IOhannes for the effort...
> husk

They've both been there for a long time, I think this is starting to
sound bikeshed-ish.  If someone really wants to work on the website, it
should be done as a whole project, not just little changes here and
there.

As for admining the website, IOhannes bears the brunt, I do some, as
much as I can via the website.  Others have admin access too.  If people
want to learn some plone and help, I think we can give web admin access
to others as well.

.hc



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[PD] Read/write of raw binary data

[Jamie Bullock]

Hi all,

Does there exist an external for reading and writing raw binary data from file?

I tried with with [msgfile], which kind of works, but it doesn't give me an 
identical file if I read/write e.g. a JPEG.

Context: I have a student who works on 'glitching' images and video by editing 
the files in a text editor and the saving. He'd like to experiment with doing 
this dynamically in Pd.


Jamie





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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Jonathan Wilkes]

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:

> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> Subject: Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any 
> external?
> To: pd-list@iem.at
> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:51 AM
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2011-03-08 06:34, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> > 
> > I think a better question would be put to Miller or
> Hans, or the other 
> > admins-- can someone please explain how the patch
> review process works?  
> 
> it's very simple:
> each patch is assigned to a person (well, let's assume it
> is).

Ok, then the problem is equally simple: the patch in question is 
not currently assigned to anyone.  Could someone choose the 
"millerpuckette" option on the tracker for patch id #3170987, please?

> whenever the assignee feels like it, they would browse to
> sf.net and
> have a look at the patches that are assigned to them (and
> probably at
> patches that are not assigned to them, though it seems that
> they should)
> if they have a good they, they eventually apply a given
> patch
> (considering they like how it is done), fix a given bug
> (considering
> they find a way to do it) or just close an invalid report.
> 
> there is an agreement, that only miller manages the core
> Pd.
> (hence there are a lot of patches in the tracker submitted
> by hans or me
> or other "admins")
> 
> 
> > Not only is the patch in question is now over a month
> old with no signs 
> > of the review having begun, but it was submitted to
> the tracker in direct 
> > response to a user's request for the feature.  If
> there's a problem 
> > with it there should at least be a relevant comment by
> this point.
> 
> indeed.
> 
> here comes the usual rant (you can safely skip it, if not
> in the mood):
> feel free to employ one (or several) of the people
> responsible for
> fixing your problems. then you can define the review
> process (e.g. that
> people have to react on an issue within a minimum time).
> you could even press them into accepting a given patch (or
> to come up
> with an alternative solution)
> since you are interested in getting a feature into core Pd,
> i suggest to
> hire miller.
> in the meantime you might have to accept that people have
> dynamic
> priorities which might not overlap with yours.
> end of the usual rant.
> 
> mfgasdr
> IOhannes
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Marco Donnarumma]

Hey,
I could give the CSS a go...

HC what do I need, how can I access the CSS styles?

M



On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Pierre Massat  wrote:

> Is IOhannes the only member in charge of maintaining the website?
>
> 2011/3/8 Husk 00 
>
>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros 
>> wrote:
>> > Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top are redundant, and
>> that
>> > scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
>> > Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite one, maybe dropping
>> the
>> > top tabs should be cosidered.
>> >
>> > Caio Barros
>> >
>>
>> I'm agree with that.
>> thanks IOhannes for the effort...
>> husk
>>
>> --
>> when Art become pratical
>> we call it technology.
>>
>> When Technology become useless
>> we call it Art
>>
>> www.estereotips.net
>>
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>


-- 
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ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
The University of Edinburgh, UK
~
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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Miller Puckette wrote:

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero.

I never thought of that...


It seems to be generalised all over pd : nearly all versioning of 
externals and abstractions is like that.


I got tired of it and started trimming the 0 at the beginning of version 
numbers (instead of trying to correct my students when they were already 
doing so). When Iohannes confirmed that GEM won't ever reach 1.0, I 
started doing it even more liberally.


Reminds me of the version number war between Digital Research DOS, 
MicroSoft DOS and IBM DOS... because much of the appreciation for modest, 
humble version numbers seemed to be in reaction to such sillyness. But it 
didn't take long before it went silly the other way.


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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

On 2011-03-08 16:46, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the
difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker.

btw, a "bug" issue can be changed into a "patch" issue.


Yeah, but I wouldn't know what that means, because Hans copied the patch 
from the patch tracker to the bug tracker and marked the patch tracker 
item as a duplicate and considered the bug tracker item to be the 
non-duplicate. So, I don't know what the patch tracker is for, compared to 
the bug tracker, so I don't know why one would or would not change a "bug" 
issue into a "patch" issue and what it might change or not to the 
processing of issues.


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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-03-08 16:46, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Matt Barber wrote:
> 
>> Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it
>> would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based
>> on the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to
>> a higher sample rate after the patch loaded, you'd have the same
>> maximum number of samples of delay, but not the same maximum
>> milliseconds. I remember there had been talk about fixing this, but if
>> it's still a problem, this might be a reason not to set sample rate
>> from the patch.
> 
> I fixed that problem. The fix has been accepted and I think that it went
> in pd-extended 42.5, but I think that it wasn't listed in the change log.
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3011594&group_id=55736&atid=478072
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2978457&group_id=55736&atid=478072
> 
> 
> It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the
> difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker.
> 

btw, a "bug" issue can be changed into a "patch" issue.
i guess you need admin rights for that, though.

fgmasdr
IOhannes
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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Matt Barber wrote:

Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it 
would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based on 
the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to a 
higher sample rate after the patch loaded, you'd have the same maximum 
number of samples of delay, but not the same maximum milliseconds. I 
remember there had been talk about fixing this, but if it's still a 
problem, this might be a reason not to set sample rate from the patch.


I fixed that problem. The fix has been accepted and I think that it went 
in pd-extended 42.5, but I think that it wasn't listed in the change log.


http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3011594&group_id=55736&atid=478072
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2978457&group_id=55736&atid=478072

It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the 
difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker.


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Re: [PD] How to view mjpeg broadcast in PD?

[Husk 00]

Hi list,
I come back to this old thread

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Bart Koppe  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to view a mjpeg stream in PD, like
> http://193.40.245.184/mjpg/video.mjpg
> Is this possible?
> If not, is there a way around, and how?
> Using PD Extended 4.25 in Ubuntu Karmic


I'm using pdp_ffplay from svn (IOhannes).
For some reason I can't detect, every thing (pd usablity) is very
slow, but processor is not over working.
Someone used another solution to read broadcast mpeg video files? what?
cheers
husk


-- 
when Art become pratical
we call it technology.

When Technology become useless
we call it Art

www.estereotips.net

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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

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On 2011-03-08 16:32, Pierre Massat wrote:
> Is IOhannes the only member in charge of maintaining the website?

i think he is the only one with a limited knowledge of plone and zope.
and he is the only one who has filesystem access to the server.


gamsdr
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Pierre Massat]

Is IOhannes the only member in charge of maintaining the website?

2011/3/8 Husk 00 

> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros  wrote:
> > Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top are redundant, and
> that
> > scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
> > Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite one, maybe dropping the
> > top tabs should be cosidered.
> >
> > Caio Barros
> >
>
> I'm agree with that.
> thanks IOhannes for the effort...
> husk
>
> --
> when Art become pratical
> we call it technology.
>
> When Technology become useless
> we call it Art
>
> www.estereotips.net
>
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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates.  I have done 
projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the 
sampling rate is set correctly.  Therefore its an essential property of the 
patch.

But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?


Not necessarily. Even things like [lop~] look like they aren't adapting 
well to the samplerate, even though they are computed using samplerate. 
However, I haven't dug deep enough to figure out whether it was really a 
[lop~] problem, or rather a [vd~]/[tabread4~] problem, or perhaps a 
problem with the very concept of sampling (that is, that we shouldn't 
expect too much from harmonics that are too close to Nyquist... and that 
starts a lot below Nyquist frequency).


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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Husk 00]

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Caio Barros  wrote:
> Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top are redundant, and that
> scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
> Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite one, maybe dropping the
> top tabs should be cosidered.
>
> Caio Barros
>

I'm agree with that.
thanks IOhannes for the effort...
husk

-- 
when Art become pratical
we call it technology.

When Technology become useless
we call it Art

www.estereotips.net

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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Caio Barros]

Actually now the left menu and the tabs on the top are redundant, and that
scratches my obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Since it seems that the left menu is the favorite one, maybe dropping the
top tabs should be cosidered.

Caio Barros

2011/3/8 Hans-Christoph Steiner 

>
> Yes, I think that's good, thanks.  Now we just need someone who can make it
> look good.  Can web/CSS people want to take a stab?  I've tried and I always
> seem to make it worse.
>
> .hc
>
> On Mar 8, 2011, at 6:23 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
>
> That's a good improvement, thanks IOhannes.
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>> > > I would like "Downloads" to point to a page where you only see three
>> > > options (with clear explanation on what each item is about):
>> > > 1. puredata
>> > > 2. pd-extended
>> > > 3. other (http://puredata.info/community/projects/software)
>> >
>> > better now?
>> >
>> > fgmasdr
>> > IOhannes
>>
>
> --
> Marco Donnarumma
> Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor
> ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
> The University of Edinburgh, UK
> ~
> Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
> Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
> http://www.flxer.net
> Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> "It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't
> have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of Environmentalism", by
> Curtis White
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Yes, I think that's good, thanks.  Now we just need someone who can  
make it look good.  Can web/CSS people want to take a stab?  I've  
tried and I always seem to make it worse.


.hc

On Mar 8, 2011, at 6:23 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:


That's a good improvement, thanks IOhannes.

M



> > I would like "Downloads" to point to a page where you only see  
three

> > options (with clear explanation on what each item is about):
> > 1. puredata
> > 2. pd-extended
> > 3. other (http://puredata.info/community/projects/software)
>
> better now?
>
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes

--
Marco Donnarumma
Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer,  
Instructor

ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
The University of Edinburgh, UK
~
Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | 
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don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of  
Environmentalism", by Curtis White





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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:43 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

You can definite make persistent audio interface settings.  The  
preferred way is to set them in your patch.


Preferred by whom ?

I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings  
when they send someone else a patch.


I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates.  I  
have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work  
right unless the sampling rate is set correctly.  Therefore its an  
essential property of the patch.

But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?

Lorenzo.


Sure, its totally possible to make patches with samples work at any  
sample rate, but usually this is a silly exercise in futility.  For  
example, in most of my sound design work, the sound is going to end up  
as a 48k audio track to a video.  Why would I work at anything but  
48k?  Sound cards have only a small set of supported sampling rates,  
MP3s/etc. mostly use one sampling rate, etc.


.hc



If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.



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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Matt Barber]

 You can definite make persistent audio interface settings.  The
 preferred way is to set them in your patch.
>>>
>>> Preferred by whom ?
>>>
>>> I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings
>>> when they send someone else a patch.
>>
>> I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates.  I have
>> done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless
>> the sampling rate is set correctly.  Therefore its an essential
>> property of the patch.
> But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?


There are some times when you have to know the sample rate beforehand,
especially in delay situations where an algorithm depends both on the
milliseconds of delay AND the actual number of samples. This can
happen in reverb and filter design, and elsewhere. Otherwise this is
also a problem in more obvious ways when you're playing sound files --
sometimes I'll make my patches so that if it detects the wrong
[samplerate~] it tells the user to close the patch and fix it.

Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it
would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based
on the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to
a higher sample rate after the patch loaded, you'd have the same
maximum number of samples of delay, but not the same maximum
milliseconds. I remember there had been talk about fixing this, but if
it's still a problem, this might be a reason not to set sample rate
from the patch.

Matt

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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Chris McCormick]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 12:13:10AM -0500, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
> FWIW, I would say if a patch is good then it does not matter what he wrote.
> If it does matter, then it's everyone's loss...

Interesting point, but I think it ignores the reality of writing software
cooperatively. FLOSS is a social endeavour. If you ignore or purposely violate
social niceties you are less likely to have a successful FLOSS system. Culture
is important.

It seems obvious to me that in a system of cooperating agents things will work
to the mutual benefit of all agents if those agents are friendly, and it will
work less efficiently if those agents are hostile.

What I am advocating is more friendliness so that the software we all enjoy
will continue to improve in an optimal way.

Cheers,

Chris.


> Chris McCormick  wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 03:07:08PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >> On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sorry -- there's no way to do that!
> >>
> >> Yes there is a way to do it, but it takes 5 hours to find out how to do 
> >> it in pd, while it takes 5 minutes to edit the C code so that people can 
> >> do it in pd in 5 seconds. But most of all it takes 0.5 second to write  
> >> "sorry".
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:40:39PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >> PS: the [delwrite~] clear method  
> >> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3170987&group_id=55736&atid=478072
> >>  
> >> is still assigned to "nobody", because it's waiting for any of the five  
> >> project admins to click on a button... It also didn't appear on  
> >> pd-...@iem.at either :  
> >> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-dev/2011-02/thread.html
> >
> >Do you think that what you have written above is likely to increase or 
> >decrease
> >your chances of getting those patches accepted more quickly? I ask this
> >question sincerely.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Chris.
> >
> >---
> >http://mccormick.cx
> >
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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Chris McCormick]

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 09:34:52PM -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> --- On Tue, 3/8/11, Chris McCormick  wrote:
> > Do you think that what you have written above is likely to
> > increase or decrease
> > your chances of getting those patches accepted more
> > quickly? I ask this
> > question sincerely.
> 
> I think a better question would be put to Miller or Hans, or the other 
> admins-- can someone please explain how the patch review process works?  

Good question. I was happy to read IOhanne's reply.

> Not only is the patch in question is now over a month old with no signs 
> of the review having begun, but it was submitted to the tracker in direct 
> response to a user's request for the feature.  If there's a problem 
> with it there should at least be a relevant comment by this point.

This is not realistic. If you look at any large FLOSS project, patches lie
dormant, are ignored, are rejected for the wrong reasons all of the time.
Submit a patch to the Linux kernel and see what happens. Most likely it will be
silently dropped.

In my experience, the best way to get a patch accepted in most projects is to
invest time in engaging socially. The reality is that often the onus is on the
submitter to advocate for their patch. In this case a sensible place to do that
would be pd-dev list. Demanding that your patch is more important than the
other things a volunteer-maintainer might need to do with their time (like real
life engagements), and is more important than other patches in the queue seems
like an unlikely way to get patches accepted.

Likewise if you somehow imply that the maintainer owes you something and that
they are not doing some kind of job properly. The people on the other end have
given up thousands of hours of their time as volunteers and released all of
that work for free, and they are often busy with other things in their lives.
Is it really so much to ask of eachother a little patience and respect?

Seriously, I find it weird that I even have to write this.

I speak only for myself and my own observations. I have no idea what any of the
other people involved think about this (except IOhannes who replied more
succinctly than me, and with whom I agree).

Cheers,

Chris.

---
http://mccormick.cx

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Re: [PD] digression on sample rates

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-03-08 14:35, Caio Barros wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong but the same applies to the bit rate, right?
> I don't know any sound intarface that work  with more than 24-bit, but Pd
> make all the calculations in 32-bit and than the sound you hear is 24bits at
> most.

the word size is usually abstracted away by the audio API, very much
unlike the sampleerate (which can be abstracted away or not)

fga,sdr
IOhannes
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Re: [PD] digression on sample rates

[Caio Barros]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the same applies to the bit rate, right?
I don't know any sound intarface that work  with more than 24-bit, but Pd
make all the calculations in 32-bit and than the sound you hear is 24bits at
most.

2011/3/8 Miller Puckette 

> Yep -- Pd will set teh logical sample rate to what you ask for, but the
> audio hardware might actually be running at a different rate -- Pd should
> report this but doesn't.  In general I need to make audio errors and
> 'situations' more visible to t ieh user!
>
> cheers
> Miller
> >
> > (Side note : I thought that my soundcard was quite limited, but now
> > I try to find a limit to the sampling rate that I can set, and I
> > can't find one...?)
> >
> >  ___
> > | Mathieu Bouchard  tél: +1.514.383.3801  Villeray, Montréal, QC
>
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Re: [PD] 0.42.5 extended pix_mix segmentation fault

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

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On 2011-03-08 12:24, olsen wrote:
> Buenas
> 
> the video mixer described on the
> https://gem.iem.at/docs/tutorials/PureDataGEMVideoMixerTutorialVideo
> segfaults on my computer as soon as one of the videos come to an end -
> both Videos are same size & mjpeg-codec.

a backtrace could help
(otoh, if it doesn't crash with the svn version, i am unlikely to fix it...)

fgmasdr
IOhannes
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iEYEARECAAYFAk12FukACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvTsDgCeJAIdylSX4n3oc7JBBdwxahm4
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=N4l6
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Marco Donnarumma]

That's a good improvement, thanks IOhannes.

M




> > > I would like "Downloads" to point to a page where you only see three
> > > options (with clear explanation on what each item is about):
> > > 1. puredata
> > > 2. pd-extended
> > > 3. other (http://puredata.info/community/projects/software)
> >
> > better now?
> >
> > fgmasdr
> > IOhannes
>

-- 
Marco Donnarumma
Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor
ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
The University of Edinburgh, UK
~
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Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
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[PD] 0.42.5 extended pix_mix segmentation fault

[olsen]

Buenas

the video mixer described on the https://gem.iem.at/docs/tutorials/PureDataGEMVideoMixerTutorialVideo segfaults on my 
computer as soon as one of the videos come to an end - both Videos are same size & mjpeg-codec.

This happens on Ubuntu 10.04 with 0.42.5 extended. Same patch and videos runnning 
flawlessly using pd-vanilla & GEM-svn.
On a OSX machine and 0.42.5 extended also no problemo except the video on osx 
are looping by default and on Linux not.

any hints welcome
salutis
ø









--
ETs DNA will not be televised
http://hasa-labs.org
#N canvas 500 286 699 335 10;
#X obj 15 136 gemwin;
#X msg 27 79 create;
#X obj 243 47 pix_film;
#X obj 243 -11 gemhead 2;
#X obj 340 194 rectangle;
#X msg 307 22 open \$1;
#X obj 307 -3 openpanel;
#X obj 307 -24 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 322 129 pix_mix 0;
#X obj 171 -10 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0
1;
#X obj 322 159 pix_texture;
#X obj 355 99 hsl 128 15 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X msg 20 54 destroy;
#X msg 6 28 dimen 360 240;
#X obj 37 104 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0
1;
#X msg 171 12 auto \$1;
#X floatatom 408 156 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X floatatom 444 156 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X obj 466 48 pix_film;
#X obj 466 -10 gemhead 2;
#X msg 530 23 open \$1;
#X obj 530 -2 openpanel;
#X obj 530 -24 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X msg 394 13 auto \$1;
#X obj 394 -9 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0
1;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 8 0;
#X connect 3 0 2 0;
#X connect 5 0 2 0;
#X connect 6 0 5 0;
#X connect 7 0 6 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 15 0;
#X connect 10 0 4 0;
#X connect 11 0 8 2;
#X connect 12 0 0 0;
#X connect 13 0 0 0;
#X connect 14 0 0 0;
#X connect 15 0 2 0;
#X connect 16 0 4 1;
#X connect 17 0 4 2;
#X connect 18 0 8 1;
#X connect 19 0 18 0;
#X connect 20 0 18 0;
#X connect 21 0 20 0;
#X connect 22 0 21 0;
#X connect 23 0 18 0;
#X connect 24 0 23 0;
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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[Marco Donnarumma]

Besides the unspecified bugs and crashes, I think what's overstated in that
blog post is the brave comparison and generalization between OS and
proprietary software. Imho it's fairly non-sense, even more 'cause not
backed up by specifications or even simple ideas.

I agree one can freely complain on his own blog, but, hey, fact is you're
still using a free software and the license is quite clear about it.
No warranty, if it doesn't work as you expect go on for Max. Without
bothering yourself and the others. If you really need to do it, you can in a
far more polite and constructive way.

As we all know there's a massive amount of professionals working with Pd on
Mac flawlessly.

(I would be curious to know how many new blog visits he has in these days)


M




>
> when i was giving a short Pd workshop in november there was a parallel
> session in maxMSP/jitter and one of those students came up to me and was
> complaining that MAX always crashed
> Pd didn't.
> just to throw in a equally unspecific report.
>
>

-- 
Marco Donnarumma
Independent New Media and Sonic Arts Professional, Performer, Instructor
ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
The University of Edinburgh, UK
~
Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
Lab: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net |
http://www.flxer.net
Event: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[Pierre Massat]

Much better indeed!

2011/3/8 IOhannes m zmoelnig 

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2011-03-06 20:59, ailo wrote:
> > I guess the organization of the site is pretty close to what one would
> > expect it to be, though, some parts do seem a little messy, or outdated
> > (and I know we could all chip in and help organize a little).
> >
> > The download section I think is, if not the 1st most important page,
> > then at least the 2nd.
> > Clarity is always nice. At least for pd and pd-extended it would be
> > great if the download section for those was only one click away. And, I
> > would like it to be even clearer than before, just by glancing at the
> > page, which is pd (vanilla) and which is pd-extended.
> >
> > I would like "Downloads" to point to a page where you only see three
> > options (with clear explanation on what each item is about):
> > 1. puredata
> > 2. pd-extended
> > 3. other (http://puredata.info/community/projects/software)
>
> better now?
>
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk1191gACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvTCJwCg4DK2Wf7kX4B3Ggbfzmb9855i
> m3oAn2nwJvWZyFZh62qHvfJggw2b22lx
> =LuYA
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Lorenzo Sutton]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

You can definite make persistent audio interface settings.  The 
preferred way is to set them in your patch.


Preferred by whom ?

I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings 
when they send someone else a patch.


I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates.  I have 
done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless 
the sampling rate is set correctly.  Therefore its an essential 
property of the patch.

But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?

Lorenzo.


.hc



IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will 
make this much easier.  Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' 
lib.


But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever 
it is on whatever platform it is ?


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  http://at.or.at/hans/



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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Lorenzo Sutton]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote:


Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time?

I can see three complaints:

1. Ugly UI (fine.)
2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings.
Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set 
this as a command-line argument, which to me is the safest way to go. 
But secondly, maybe there's a reason Pd can't persist audio settings 
between sessions? No idea. Anyway, at best, his comment here is 
misleading.


You can definite make persistent audio interface settings.  The 
preferred way is to set them in your patch.  IOhannes is currently 
making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier.  
Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib.
Otherwise just learn how to make a 1-line script, batch file or whatever 
it's called on MACs - uh


Lorenzo.


.hc


3. "Crashes"

Crashes ... where?

As near as I can tell, this entire rant is about the stability of 
vst~. (Is vst~ even part of Vanilla?)


Peter
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'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling 
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pink-collar temp pool day.  - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf




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Re: [PD] The economics of Open source

[Jonathan Wilkes]

1) You're seeing one model of the economics of free software in action on the 
Ardour 
website.  Click the link to the "news" page and there's a status bar that shows 
the 
amount of donations given per month relative to the amount it would take to 
fund full- 
time development of the software.  Then you click "download" and have a box 
where 
you can type in any amount you'd like to pay to download the latest stable 
version.  

I know the term gets tossed around a lot, but I don't think free software has 
much
at all to do with "free beer".  Free beer is delicious, mindless, quickly 
consumed and 
then gone.  It's something you take (and-- hopefully-- don't give back).  It 
derives its 
potency from people's (current) inability to make more of it without exerting a 
burdensome amount of effort (which would then negate its freedom from cost).

Free software is a bunch of bits with a marginal cost of zero (i.e., once you 
have one 
Ardour tarball, the amount of money it takes to produce another Ardour tarball 
is zero). However, the cost of producing the software is not zero, so you are 
faced with the 
seemingly odd situation of being nudged to pay for something that you can copy, 
distribute, 
learn, change, and distribute-with-changes for free.  But the whole point is: 
do you 
believe that the best way to develop software is for people to be able to read, 
run, 
copy, change, and distribute it freely?  If so, then Paul has a crawl next to 
the entry box 
that shows the current prices people pay for proprietary DAWs, and you can 
choose 
accordingly (or proportionally within your means, or whatever you want to do 
that you 
think will support and sustain that development model).

Or you can just pay $0 and contribute to free beer.

It's by no means the only model, nor the predominant one.  Probably the people 
who 
develop the software you'd like to donate to can tell you more about their 
models.

2) Absolutely not.  Look at the software repository in Debian-- it's all free 
of charge 
(including Ardour, btw).  Also, Debian itself is free of charge.  Pd, 
Supercollider, 
ChucK, Jack, Fluxus, Blender, etc.

--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Pierre Massat  wrote:

From: Pierre Massat 
Subject: [PD] The economics of Open source
To: "pd-list" 
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:21 AM

Dear List,

I was trying to get Ardour to work last night and i came accross the forum on 
their website. I must say i was quite shocked to see how many posts were about 
money. I was equally surprized to see that the latest full version of Ardour 
isn't free (although you can name your price). 

Now don't get me wrong : I think i can imagine the amount of work that was 
necessary to write a software like Ardour from scratch, and i totally 
understand that the team who wrote it may decide that they should be payed for 
it. 

This leads me to ask two questions :
1) What are the economics of open source software, and how sustainable is the 
model? How does it work for Pd? 
2) I get the feeling that open source developpers used to think that the idea 
of free (free beer...) software was cool, but 10 to 15 years down the line 
(that is, now) they're beginning to realize that they can't keep on doing this 
forever. Am I wrong here? 


I have been considering making a donation since i've been using Pd extensively 
for a few years now. But could someone tell me exactly how it works? Who gets 
the money? How is it split between the different developpers? For instance, i'm 
assuming that Miller Puckette should get a fair share of the donations since 
we're all using Pd vanilla at least, but i use HID a lot in my patches, so Hans 
should get his share too. And i never use GEM or Gridflow (cause i have no need 
for it at the moment), so i don't see why part of my donation should go to 
Mathieu or GEM's author(s). Yet i m sure that thousands of people use GEM, and 
these developpers should be supported as well. In short, how does it work, and 
how do we make this sustainable? 


Pierre


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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[Frank Barknecht]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 10:46:02PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> Right. But are some soundcards and/or drivers limited to only certain  
> sampling rates ?

Actually most soundcards only support a limited number of samplerates in their
hardware, everything else then requires resampling in software. A common
example are USB soundcards that often only support 48kHz or do not support
high samplerates like 96kHz.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me?  _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

[Lorenzo Sutton]

chris clepper wrote:

I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta.


I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes 
always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the 
dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions.


And of course it would have been nice if he *shared* the patch(es) which 
made Pd crash.


It's interesting (from a more, let's say 'social' point of view) that in 
these MAX vs PD, Windows VS Linux, commercial VS FLOSS discussions the 
former attitude is usually "hey tried this, I think it's crap/too hard 
for me/buggy/can't use it at the first go..." and the latter is always 
"care to tell us what was wrong? whatever works best for you...". 
Interesting.


Lorenzo.



On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mathieu Bouchard > wrote:


On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:

A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working
out in 30 days.


I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm
waiting for it to expire.

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Montréal, QC

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Re: [PD] Download Pd?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-03-06 20:59, ailo wrote:
> I guess the organization of the site is pretty close to what one would
> expect it to be, though, some parts do seem a little messy, or outdated
> (and I know we could all chip in and help organize a little).
> 
> The download section I think is, if not the 1st most important page,
> then at least the 2nd.
> Clarity is always nice. At least for pd and pd-extended it would be
> great if the download section for those was only one click away. And, I
> would like it to be even clearer than before, just by glancing at the
> page, which is pd (vanilla) and which is pd-extended.
> 
> I would like "Downloads" to point to a page where you only see three
> options (with clear explanation on what each item is about):
> 1. puredata
> 2. pd-extended
> 3. other (http://puredata.info/community/projects/software)

better now?

fgmasdr
IOhannes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk1191gACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvTCJwCg4DK2Wf7kX4B3Ggbfzmb9855i
m3oAn2nwJvWZyFZh62qHvfJggw2b22lx
=LuYA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: [PD] The economics of Open source

[Richie Cyngler]

Great question. I'm really interested in this as well. Should be interesting
to see how it plays out in the list =P...

I've always presumed that all the devs are overflowing with academic funding
and are bug tracking while sipping cocktails by the pool.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Pierre Massat  wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> I was trying to get Ardour to work last night and i came accross the forum
> on their website. I must say i was quite shocked to see how many posts were
> about money. I was equally surprized to see that the latest full version of
> Ardour isn't free (although you can name your price).
> Now don't get me wrong : I think i can imagine the amount of work that was
> necessary to write a software like Ardour from scratch, and i totally
> understand that the team who wrote it may decide that they should be payed
> for it.
> This leads me to ask two questions :
> 1) What are the economics of open source software, and how sustainable is
> the model? How does it work for Pd?
> 2) I get the feeling that open source developpers used to think that the
> idea of free (free beer...) software was cool, but 10 to 15 years down the
> line (that is, now) they're beginning to realize that they can't keep on
> doing this forever. Am I wrong here?
>
> I have been considering making a donation since i've been using Pd
> extensively for a few years now. But could someone tell me exactly how it
> works? Who gets the money? How is it split between the different
> developpers? For instance, i'm assuming that Miller Puckette should get a
> fair share of the donations since we're all using Pd vanilla at least, but i
> use HID a lot in my patches, so Hans should get his share too. And i never
> use GEM or Gridflow (cause i have no need for it at the moment), so i don't
> see why part of my donation should go to Mathieu or GEM's author(s). Yet i m
> sure that thousands of people use GEM, and these developpers should be
> supported as well. In short, how does it work, and how do we make this
> sustainable?
>
> Pierre
>
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>


-- 
Richie
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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-03-08 09:47, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
>> iirc, this was discussed on the pd-dev list prior to enabling the
>> "feature".
> 
> Is reading pd-dev a requirement for people who submit to the patchtracker ?

i don't think so.

however, if people complain that there posts are not processed in the
way they imagine that they should, they might want to familiarize
themselves with the way others imagine it.

fgmasdr
IOhannes


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iEYEARECAAYFAk117wgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvSfsgCdGEO6Xv5ObmyigKk1NYlEfvfk
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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

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On 2011-03-08 06:34, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> 
> I think a better question would be put to Miller or Hans, or the other 
> admins-- can someone please explain how the patch review process works?  

it's very simple:
each patch is assigned to a person (well, let's assume it is).
whenever the assignee feels like it, they would browse to sf.net and
have a look at the patches that are assigned to them (and probably at
patches that are not assigned to them, though it seems that they should)
if they have a good they, they eventually apply a given patch
(considering they like how it is done), fix a given bug (considering
they find a way to do it) or just close an invalid report.

there is an agreement, that only miller manages the core Pd.
(hence there are a lot of patches in the tracker submitted by hans or me
or other "admins")


> Not only is the patch in question is now over a month old with no signs 
> of the review having begun, but it was submitted to the tracker in direct 
> response to a user's request for the feature.  If there's a problem 
> with it there should at least be a relevant comment by this point.

indeed.

here comes the usual rant (you can safely skip it, if not in the mood):
feel free to employ one (or several) of the people responsible for
fixing your problems. then you can define the review process (e.g. that
people have to react on an issue within a minimum time).
you could even press them into accepting a given patch (or to come up
with an alternative solution)
since you are interested in getting a feature into core Pd, i suggest to
hire miller.
in the meantime you might have to accept that people have dynamic
priorities which might not overlap with yours.
end of the usual rant.

mfgasdr
IOhannes
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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:


iirc, this was discussed on the pd-dev list prior to enabling the "feature".


Is reading pd-dev a requirement for people who submit to the 
patchtracker ?


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Re: [PD] Get list of a the arguments of a patch without using any external?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

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On 2011-03-08 08:02, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Chris McCormick wrote:
> 
>> Do you think that what you have written above is likely to increase or
>> decrease
>> your chances of getting those patches accepted more quickly?
> 
> If I hadn't written it, I wouldn't have been reminded of the existence
> of the delwrite patch in a manner that would have caused me to ask about
> it on pd-list, and I guess that no-one else would have done it anytime
> soon.
> 

iirc, this was discussed on the pd-dev list prior to enabling the "feature".

gamdr
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Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

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On 2011-03-08 00:43, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates.  I have
> done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless
> the sampling rate is set correctly.  Therefore its an essential property
> of the patch.

hmm, most patches should be stable with regard to sample rate.
so a patch that only works at 22kHz, could be considered buggy.

otoh, i guess you are aware of that, and it indeed was hard to create a
sample-rate agnostic version of the patch without going through ugly
hacks (most likely: soundfiles recorded at specific sr, and no built-in
capabilities of Pd to resample)

finally: i've done plenty of patches that won't work at all if you only
have stereo-output.


personally i don't know whether it is a good idea to force a patch from
within the patch to run at certain settings.
the user usually has a better idea of the capabilities of their hardware
then the off-site developer.



the mediasettings library provides a programmatic way to change the
settings, with possible userinteraction.
the main target was to allow to implement persistent audio settings
using alternative GUIs, rather than persistent audio settings when
moving patches between hosts.

mediasettings has been developed for the IntegraLive project; there has
been long discussion within the project whether audio-settings should be
Patch specific or host specific (and i cannot remember the outcome).

i guess one should only try to set the parameters that are crucial (e.g.
if you know that your patch will only run at 92kHz, only try to set the
samplerate but don't try to change the device)
mediasettings allows is (well it's designed to allow it; i hope it does)

fgmadr
IOhannes
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[PD] The economics of Open source

[Pierre Massat]

Dear List,

I was trying to get Ardour to work last night and i came accross the forum
on their website. I must say i was quite shocked to see how many posts were
about money. I was equally surprized to see that the latest full version of
Ardour isn't free (although you can name your price).
Now don't get me wrong : I think i can imagine the amount of work that was
necessary to write a software like Ardour from scratch, and i totally
understand that the team who wrote it may decide that they should be payed
for it.
This leads me to ask two questions :
1) What are the economics of open source software, and how sustainable is
the model? How does it work for Pd?
2) I get the feeling that open source developpers used to think that the
idea of free (free beer...) software was cool, but 10 to 15 years down the
line (that is, now) they're beginning to realize that they can't keep on
doing this forever. Am I wrong here?

I have been considering making a donation since i've been using Pd
extensively for a few years now. But could someone tell me exactly how it
works? Who gets the money? How is it split between the different
developpers? For instance, i'm assuming that Miller Puckette should get a
fair share of the donations since we're all using Pd vanilla at least, but i
use HID a lot in my patches, so Hans should get his share too. And i never
use GEM or Gridflow (cause i have no need for it at the moment), so i don't
see why part of my donation should go to Mathieu or GEM's author(s). Yet i m
sure that thousands of people use GEM, and these developpers should be
supported as well. In short, how does it work, and how do we make this
sustainable?

Pierre
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