date:20110927


Le 2011-09-25 à 16:19:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :


Thanks, but if I become a serious user, I hope to make substantial
contributions to Pd at some point, and for various reasons my preference is to
contribute to a BSD-licensed project over one that is licensed under the GPL.


I heard that it's GPL'd too, but I don't know what it applies to. Looking 
at a checkout of pdextended 42 (the last one in svn), nearly all license 
notices are BSD. The two exceptions are the notice in [expr~]'s source and 
about.pd.


In vanilla the only exception is [expr~].

Given that nearly all changes in pdextended are made with the intent of 
going to vanilla on vanilla's terms, and given that the license of 
existing code can't just be changed, I cannot really tell which part is 
covered by GPL3. What is said in about.pd is contradictory to the dozens 
of other notices.



I was under the impression that Pd-extended consisted of augmentations to
Vanilla.  Is it actually a fork?


How would you draw the line ? Everybody (and their cats) has their own 
idea of what the word «fork» ought to be used for. E.g. en.wikipedia says 
that a fork is the point at which a branch becomes two or more. Random 
slashdot dudes would say a fork is like a branch except done for... some 
kind of evil purposes... ;)


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-25 à 17:33:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :


Also, realize that any substantial changes you make may sit in the patch 
tracker for
some time-- it's not easy getting them accepted, nor communicating with Miller 
if
they don't.


Anyone tried his phone number as listed at the top of 
http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/ ?


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-25 à 21:54:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :


A patch which has consensus support from the community probably has a better
chance at being applied, even under BDFL governance.  :)


That's merely a rule of thumb for the average project... it's better to 
know a bit about Miller than use a rule of thumb.


But consensus can be costly to achieve depending on the project's 
culture...


Consensus can also be irrelevant, depending on the project's culture.

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Re: [PD] PD-Launch videos + Miller Puckette's 20-lecture puredata video course??

2011-09-27 Thread Miller Puckette

Hi all --

There are raw videos (taken by Joe Deken) but they're 30G in total and
there are problems with the sound.  Joe and Theron Trowbridge have ben working
on cleaning them up and compressing them - this turns ou to be a big job.
I'm hoping we'll end up with 20 400-ish-megabyte individual files I can host
on CRCA, but can't yet make any promises about timing :)

Miller

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 09:16:31AM -0500, Epic Jefferson wrote:
 good, please let us know as soon as the videos are uploaded.
 
 
 On Sunday, September 25, 2011, TAD BISAHA tadbis...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi the List
  The answer is described in the attachment.
  I transfer the videos on vimeo these next days (not before friday)
  I give you the links in end of this week
  Au plaisir
  Tad
 
  Epic Jefferson a écrit :
 
  I think it's more a question of Miller being ok with the videos being
 uploaded.
 
  On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:23 AM, TAD BISAHA tadbis...@gmail.commailto:
 tadbis...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi the list
 I have the videos (USB stick), I can put them on Vimeo or ftp server.
 But there's a grand question, is everyone of agreement?
 Au plaisir
 Tad
 
 Darrell Berry a écrit :
 
 If there's trivial but tedious work to be done on them, why
 not upoad them somewhere as data files and let the community
 do the work? I'm sure many of us would offer some time in
 return for ongoing access to such a resource...?
 
 Julian Brooks jbee...@gmail.com mailto:jbee...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
Any real reason why the videos can't go on somewhere like Vimeo
for example and upload the patches somewhere too?  Seems a
 rather
awkward process.
 
I'm sure lots of people would be interested in checking these
out.  Particularly if your shipping them 'at cost', why not
 save
yourself lots of bother.
 
I do get the reasoning for doing the usb stick (which look
 great
btw) but a little more open access would be far greater.
 
Cheers,
 
Julian`
 
2011/9/25 Theron Trowbridge theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
 mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
 mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
 
 
Hello, all.
 
The delay on the videos being posted is entirely my
 fault.  We
found a
(really) minor problem with the videos and I need to
 fix all
of them.
 
But the videos from the sticks exist.  The USB sticks
 are sold
though
the CRASHspace store, but we don't really do shipping.
 
That being said, anyone who is interested in the videos
 should
e-mail
me directly (theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
 mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
 mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com).  I have shipped out
 copies
 
on DVD-R at cost and USB sticks as well.  The shipping
internationally
can get a bit pricey, but I've shipped them around the
 world, too.
 
I apologize for the delay and any frustration I have
 caused.
 We want
to get these videos out to everyone.
 
 
-Theron
^
 
2011/9/24 Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com
 mailto:glitch...@gmail.com
mailto:glitch...@gmail.com
 mailto:glitch...@gmail.com:
 
 As far as I can tell that link is for the lectures on
 a usb
stick available
 if you're in LA. For those of us further away they were
going to go up
 online. I think Theron was working on this. Any
 updates? I'd
be very
 interested in viewing these lectures too.

 Thanks heaps
 On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:37 AM, TAD BISAHA
tadbis...@gmail.com mailto:tadbis...@gmail.com
 mailto:tadbis...@gmail.com mailto:tadbis...@gmail.com wrote:

 Bonjour João,
 Take a look at this address:
http://pd-la.info/2011/04/pd-la-usb-stick/
 I took this link to acquire a USB.  contents: videos +
patchs  Videos ok,
 some patchs of examples are missing, but it's of your
level, I believe ;-)
 Au plaisir, Tad

 Ps: about PdCon last night in Berlin, did you find some
cables (4)? jack
 6.35
 For the time being, there is only my head which I do not

Re: [PD] PD-Launch videos + Miller Puckette's 20-lecture puredata video course??

2011-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes

- Original Message -

 From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu
 To: Epic Jefferson jeffreyconcepc...@gmail.com
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 11:13 AM
 Subject: Re: [PD] PD-Launch videos + Miller Puckette's 20-lecture puredata 
 video course??

 Hi all --

 There are raw videos (taken by Joe Deken) but they're 30G in total and
 there are problems with the sound.  Joe and Theron Trowbridge have ben working
 on cleaning them up and compressing them - this turns ou to be a big job.

The question is: are they using Pure Data to clean up the video on Pure Data? :)

Sounds like a great resource!

-Jonathan

 I'm hoping we'll end up with 20 400-ish-megabyte individual files I can 
 host
 on CRCA, but can't yet make any promises about timing :)

 Miller

 On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 09:16:31AM -0500, Epic Jefferson wrote:
  good, please let us know as soon as the videos are uploaded.

  On Sunday, September 25, 2011, TAD BISAHA tadbis...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
   Hi the List
   The answer is described in the attachment.
   I transfer the videos on vimeo these next days (not before friday)
   I give you the links in end of this week
   Au plaisir
   Tad

   Epic Jefferson a écrit :

   I think it's more a question of Miller being ok with the 
 videos being
  uploaded.

   On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:23 AM, TAD BISAHA 
 tadbis...@gmail.commailto:
  tadbis...@gmail.com wrote:

      Hi the list
      I have the videos (USB stick), I can put them on Vimeo or ftp 
 server.
      But there's a grand question, is everyone of agreement?
      Au plaisir
      Tad

      Darrell Berry a écrit :

          If there's trivial but tedious work to be done on them, 
 why
          not upoad them somewhere as data files and let the 
 community
          do the work? I'm sure many of us would offer some time 
 in
          return for ongoing access to such a resource...?

          Julian Brooks jbee...@gmail.com 
 mailto:jbee...@gmail.com
          wrote:

             Any real reason why the videos can't go on somewhere 
 like Vimeo
             for example and upload the patches somewhere too?  Seems 
 a
          rather
             awkward process.

             I'm sure lots of people would be interested in 
 checking these
             out.  Particularly if your shipping them 'at 
 cost', why not
          save
             yourself lots of bother.

             I do get the reasoning for doing the usb stick (which 
 look
          great
             btw) but a little more open access would be far greater.

             Cheers,

             Julian`

             2011/9/25 Theron Trowbridge 
 theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
          mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
             mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
          mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com

                 Hello, all.

                 The delay on the videos being posted is entirely my
          fault.  We
                 found a
                 (really) minor problem with the videos and I need to
          fix all
                 of them.

                 But the videos from the sticks exist.  The USB 
 sticks
          are sold
                 though
                 the CRASHspace store, but we don't really do 
 shipping.

                 That being said, anyone who is interested in the 
 videos
          should
                 e-mail
                 me directly (theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
          mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
                 mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com
          mailto:theron.trowbri...@gmail.com).  I have 
 shipped out
          copies

                 on DVD-R at cost and USB sticks as well.  The 
 shipping
                 internationally
                 can get a bit pricey, but I've shipped them 
 around the
          world, too.

                 I apologize for the delay and any frustration I have
          caused.
                  We want
                 to get these videos out to everyone.

                 -Theron
                 ^

                 2011/9/24 Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com
          mailto:glitch...@gmail.com
                 mailto:glitch...@gmail.com
          mailto:glitch...@gmail.com:

                  As far as I can tell that link is for the 
 lectures on
          a usb
                 stick available
                  if you're in LA. For those of us further 
 away they were
                 going to go up
                  online. I think Theron was working on this. Any
          updates? I'd
                 be very
                  interested in viewing these lectures too.

                  Thanks heaps
                  On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:37 AM, TAD BISAHA
                 tadbis...@gmail.com 
 mailto:tadbis...@gmail.com
          mailto:tadbis...@gmail.com 
 mailto:tadbis...@gmail.com wrote:

                  Bonjour João,

Re: [PD] Problem w/ Gem 0.93.1 on Windows 7

2011-09-27 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-09-27 16:20, Epic Jefferson wrote:
 so, if i get it from the vanilla package, should i just drop it in the Gem
 folder, in pd-ext?
 
drop it into the pdext/bin/ folder

fgamsdr
IOhannes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk6B6/UACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRYLACfTxj18116CMZP/DWPfSLoGqfy
R/kAn188x6UPy5zRnzX1IbxdRtxQRjxc
=bozc
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smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-25 à 22:59:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :

It's been forked-- four times (AFAIK).  Nova, DesireData, Pd-extended, 
and Pd-l2ork.  Two of those forks-- Nova and DesireData-- had explicitly 
stated goals which basically boiled down to being more responsive to the 
Pd community (in addition to many other things).


Have you ever looked at Nova ?

It's never been a branch of Pd in any sense, and it's never been 
compatible with Pd except in very superficial ways : even MAX is more 
Pd-like than Nova.



The three clauses of the BSD license used by Pd Vanilla are compatible with both
the GPL v2  v3


Integrating GPL code with BSD code makes GPL the overall dominant license, 
as in it has all the clauses of BSD and makes the most restrictions. The 
BSD license still applies to any portions still under BSD license.


The pdextended license (GPL) doesn't say to which parts of the programme 
it applies, and all the copyright/license notices I can find (in a bêta of 
42) are all BSD. Changes  additions to BSD code don't have to be under 
the BSD license, thus if it's not stated, it's somewhat harder to make any 
assumptions...


That kind of license fuzz is tolerated because pd developers have no 
expectation that lawyers ever have to put their nose in the project... and 
even if they did, they would not have the background to know how to fix 
it, or know which advice they can trust. I think that this is true of many 
(if not most) open/free projects.


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-25 à 09:29:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :


The patch below fixes the problem.  I don't know if it's the right solution,
though.


Pd doesn't _have_ to pass keynums around like that. If the Tk code were 
sending Up/Down/Left/Right names as given by Tk's bind's %K (uppercase), 
then you wouldn't have to replicate in g_editor.c things that Tk already 
does as part of its portability layer.


Afaik, %K and %N are portable, whereas %k is not portable. It's not a 
matter of whether it's a number or not (%N is also a number), it's a 
matter of whether the number is consistent on all platforms or not.


There might be slight compatibility differences in %K/%N too, but just the 
unavoidable ones ; whereas %k could even change from keyboard to keyboard 
on the same platform... there's not much of a guarantee on it.


DesireData used %K all over, except for the Keyboard View feature which 
really had to use %k, if I recall correctly.


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing



On Sep 27, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


Le 2011-09-25 à 22:59:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :

It's been forked-- four times (AFAIK).  Nova, DesireData, Pd- 
extended, and Pd-l2ork.  Two of those forks-- Nova and DesireData--  
had explicitly stated goals which basically boiled down to being  
more responsive to the Pd community (in addition to many other  
things).


Have you ever looked at Nova ?

It's never been a branch of Pd in any sense, and it's never been  
compatible with Pd except in very superficial ways : even MAX is  
more Pd-like than Nova.


The three clauses of the BSD license used by Pd Vanilla are  
compatible with both

the GPL v2  v3


Integrating GPL code with BSD code makes GPL the overall dominant  
license, as in it has all the clauses of BSD and makes the most  
restrictions. The BSD license still applies to any portions still  
under BSD license.


The pdextended license (GPL) doesn't say to which parts of the  
programme it applies, and all the copyright/license notices I can  
find (in a bêta of 42) are all BSD. Changes  additions to BSD code  
don't have to be under the BSD license, thus if it's not stated,  
it's somewhat harder to make any assumptions...


That kind of license fuzz is tolerated because pd developers have no  
expectation that lawyers ever have to put their nose in the  
project... and even if they did, they would not have the background  
to know how to fix it, or know which advice they can trust. I think  
that this is true of many (if not most) open/free projects.



Pd-extended as a whole is under the GPLv3, that's the easiest way to  
think about it.  Some sections of it are under the BSD License, some  
under the Tcl License (which Pd was originally), some under GPLv2, etc.


My personal thoughts on the license of what is in pd-extended.git are  
more vague.  Yes, the intention is for much/most of that code to  
contributed back to Pd, but my only distribution of the whole thing is  
part of the Pd-extended package, which is GPLv3.  So if you want to be  
sure, consider it GPLv3.


.hc



News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is  
publicity.  - Bill Moyers




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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-27 à 12:14:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :

Pd-extended as a whole is under the GPLv3, that's the easiest way to think 
about it.


I don't know what that means.

My personal thoughts on the license of what is in pd-extended.git are 
more vague.  Yes, the intention is for much/most of that code to 
contributed back to Pd, but my only distribution of the whole thing is 
part of the Pd-extended package, which is GPLv3.  So if you want to be 
sure, consider it GPLv3.


Copyright applies to specific pieces of code, isn't it ?

Which are the parts of pd-extended that are GPLv3 ?

I don't see any in the core, for example.

Each file is labelled with only one license notice which is not GPLv3.

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Re: [PD] Help with [pix_multiblob]'s outlet.


Le 2011-09-25 à 10:19:00, Eduardo Rosario a écrit :

Ain't got no problem getting the list of numbers from the rightmost 
outlet, but don't really understand what each one of those stands for: 
size(weighted),


Sum of all pixel values.


centerX(weighted), centerY(weighted),


you take the sum of all products of pixel values with x positions, and 
then you divide by the weighted size. This gives you a value in pixel 
units, which is an average horiz position.


likewise for y.

minX, minY, maxX, maxY, area. I know [pix_multiblob] makes a matrix to 
get the results, but I don't know how does that work neither.


Use [list split 8] and [unpack f f f f f f f f], either several copies or 
recursively.


Or use GridFlow or iemmatrix.

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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing

2011-09-27 Thread Jonathan Wilkes

- Original Message -

 From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
 Cc: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com; pd-list@iem.at pd-list@iem.at
 Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing

 On Sep 27, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

  Le 2011-09-25 à 22:59:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :

  It's been forked-- four times (AFAIK).  Nova, DesireData, 
 Pd-extended, and Pd-l2ork.  Two of those forks-- Nova and DesireData-- had 
 explicitly stated goals which basically boiled down to being more responsive 
 to 
 the Pd community (in addition to many other things).

  Have you ever looked at Nova ?

  It's never been a branch of Pd in any sense, and it's never been 
 compatible with Pd except in very superficial ways : even MAX is more Pd-like 
 than Nova.

  The three clauses of the BSD license used by Pd Vanilla are compatible 
 with both
  the GPL v2  v3

  Integrating GPL code with BSD code makes GPL the overall dominant license, 
 as in it has all the clauses of BSD and makes the most restrictions. The BSD 
 license still applies to any portions still under BSD license.

  The pdextended license (GPL) doesn't say to which parts of the 
 programme it applies, and all the copyright/license notices I can find (in a 
 bêta of 42) are all BSD. Changes  additions to BSD code don't have to 
 be under the BSD license, thus if it's not stated, it's somewhat harder 
 to make any assumptions...

  That kind of license fuzz is tolerated because pd developers have no 
 expectation that lawyers ever have to put their nose in the project... and 
 even 
 if they did, they would not have the background to know how to fix it, or 
 know 
 which advice they can trust. I think that this is true of many (if not most) 
 open/free projects.

 Pd-extended as a whole is under the GPLv3, that's the easiest way to think 
 about it.  Some sections of it are under the BSD License, some under the Tcl 
 License (which Pd was originally), some under GPLv2, etc.

I guess by Pd-extended as a whole you are including externals (since you 
mention 
the Tcl license, which I only ever saw in an external library).  In that case, 
add LGPL
to the list (iemlib if I'm remembering correctly).

-Jonathan

 My personal thoughts on the license of what is in pd-extended.git are more 
 vague.  Yes, the intention is for much/most of that code to contributed back 
 to 
 Pd, but my only distribution of the whole thing is part of the Pd-extended 
 package, which is GPLv3.  So if you want to be sure, consider it GPLv3.

 .hc

 News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity.     

   - Bill Moyers

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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-27 à 10:45:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :

I guess by Pd-extended as a whole you are including externals (since 
you mention the Tcl license, which I only ever saw in an external 
library).  In that case, add LGPL to the list (iemlib if I'm remembering 
correctly).


Hans can't possibly relicense externals either. Which part of Pdextended 
is « Pdextended as a whole » ? That is, under which circumstances can the 
GPLv3 license ever apply to whatever in pdextended, and not just the 
license of each specific piece of source code in there ?


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-26 à 08:34:00, Richie Cyngler a écrit :


None of these combinations provide that behavior on Pd Vanilla built from
latest git on OS X 10.6:

   control-Enter
   command-Enter
   option-Enter
   shift-Enter

I could live with control-Enter instead of ESC (especially since I've
rewired my caps lock key to control at the OS level using the Keyboard system
prefs) -- though ESC works so well for switching modes in Vim. :)


The only thing that has made sense to me is :

  Enter for accepting changes made in a box's text and exit that mode ;

  Escape for cancelling those changes and exit that mode too ;

  Shift-Enter to insert a literal newline in a box's text (currently
  meaningless because they get replaced by Space by the loader/saver) ;

  Those shortcuts don't necessarily apply to the main Edit Mode... I don't
  recall whether we bound Enter to « switch to text edition ». Escape has
  no effect in that context, because there's no modal dialogue-like thing
  to get out of. A text edition in progress is quite « modal » in that
  particular meaning of the word (but there are several things called
  «Modes»... e.g. Ctrl+e wouldn't be called « modal »).

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Re: [PD] speaker recognition with pd ?


Le 2011-09-27 à 00:00:00, William Brent a écrit :

On the other hand, if I were going to take a stab at a simplified system 
based on isolated sounds, in general I'd guess that features of pure 
vowels would be more helpful in distinguishing between different 
speakers than features of sss sounds or consonants.


Ekthept when thomeone thpeakth like thith, of courthe.

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Re: [PD] speaker recognition with pd ?

2011-09-27 Thread Jaime Oliver

 Ekthept when thomeone thpeakth like thith, of courthe.

what if there are two of them

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Re: [PD] use VST-Instruments in a PD patch?

2011-09-27 Thread David Schaffer



vst~ is an excellent tool, although a bit tricky to use the first time. It 
really changed the way I use pd by making me able to focus more on the music 
than just on the code. There's plenty of free compressors, reverbs and fx's out 
there that may come in handy if you're looking for a good tool that you don't 
have to design from scratch.  just rememeber that it is a windows-only object. 
Good luck to you.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/schafferdavid/
http://audioblog.arteradio.com/David_Schaffer/
  Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 21:27:18 +0200
 From: colet.patr...@free.fr
 To: pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: [PD]  use VST-Instruments in a PD patch?
 
 
  hello,
 
 I use this on windows vista:
 
 http://puredata.info/community/pdwiki/Vst/
 
  Curiously the VST plugins work only if I put them along with the patch,
 because VSTPATH doesn't work anymore with using the batch file since some 
 windows update.
 
 - hghoyer hgho...@googlemail.com a écrit :
 
  Hi,
  
  ist there a possibillity to use VST Instruments in a PD Patch? So that
  PD is the host?
  
  
  
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[PD] pd-extended license WAS: Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing



On Sep 27, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


Le 2011-09-27 à 10:45:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :

I guess by Pd-extended as a whole you are including externals  
(since you mention the Tcl license, which I only ever saw in an  
external library).  In that case, add LGPL to the list (iemlib if  
I'm remembering correctly).


Hans can't possibly relicense externals either. Which part of  
Pdextended is « Pdextended as a whole » ? That is, under which  
circumstances can the GPLv3 license ever apply to whatever in  
pdextended, and not just the license of each specific piece of  
source code in there ?



No one is talking about relicensing.  BSD, MIT, Tcl, LGPL, etc. are  
compatible with GPLv3, that means you can include code with those  
licenses into a GPLv3 project and that is allowed.  Then the whole  
project is GPLv3.


If you are only worried about snippets of code, then you only have to  
worry about what the copyright and license of the code you take.


.hc





[T]he greatest purveyor of violence in the world today [is] my own  
government. - Martin Luther King, Jr.





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Re: [PD] pd-extended license WAS: Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-27 à 16:41:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :

No one is talking about relicensing.  BSD, MIT, Tcl, LGPL, etc. are 
compatible with GPLv3, that means you can include code with those licenses 
into a GPLv3 project and that is allowed.  Then the whole project is GPLv3.


You mean that the whole project is GPLv3-compatible, or that it is GPLv3 ?

If it is the latter, then when do the GPLv3's obligations ever apply to me 
when I do whatever with Pd-extended ?


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Re: [PD] pd-extended license WAS: Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing



On Sep 27, 2011, at 4:53 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:


Le 2011-09-27 à 16:41:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :

No one is talking about relicensing.  BSD, MIT, Tcl, LGPL, etc. are  
compatible with GPLv3, that means you can include code with those  
licenses into a GPLv3 project and that is allowed.  Then the whole  
project is GPLv3.


You mean that the whole project is GPLv3-compatible, or that it is  
GPLv3 ?


If it is the latter, then when do the GPLv3's obligations ever apply  
to me when I do whatever with Pd-extended ?



I think you need to read up on how licenses work, its a bit off topic  
here.  But yes, Pd-extended is GPLv3 as a whole.


.hc




Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more  
direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice,  
it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith




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Re: [PD] pd-extended license WAS: Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-27 à 17:32:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :


I think you need to read up on how licenses work,


I think you need to read up on how licenses work,


its a bit off topic here.


no.

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Re: [PD] Problem w/ Gem 0.93.1 on Windows 7

2011-09-27 Thread Epic Jefferson

worked like a charm, thanks IOhannes. For those of you using pd-ext 0.42.5
on Windows 7 and want to use Gem 0.93.1, this is the way to go. I included
the necessary files here -
http://www.mediafire.com/file/h2x1nk4bjvdr7tw/pthreadVC.dll.zip
Unzip, then drop the files in Program Files (x86)/pd/bin/ folder.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.atwrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 2011-09-27 16:20, Epic Jefferson wrote:
  so, if i get it from the vanilla package, should i just drop it in the
 Gem
  folder, in pd-ext?
 
 drop it into the pdext/bin/ folder

 fgamsdr
 IOhannes
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

 iEYEARECAAYFAk6B6/UACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRYLACfTxj18116CMZP/DWPfSLoGqfy
 R/kAn188x6UPy5zRnzX1IbxdRtxQRjxc
 =bozc
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [PD] speaker recognition with pd ?

2011-09-27 Thread William Brent

 Ekthept when thomeone thpeakth like thith, of courthe.

 what if there are two of them

Hmm...they might just cancel each other out.

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[PD] [fux_qrcode] - qrcode reader for puredata

2011-09-27 Thread Budi Prakosa

hi list,

for a project i have to make a simple interactive photobooth that
triggered by showing qrcode to webcam
and it will take photo automaticly and upload it to facebook.
Here is the qrcode part i hope this will be useful!

https://github.com/badgeek/fux_qrcode


cheers

-- 
Budi Prakosa
house of natural fiber (HONF)
yogyakarta new media art laboratory
wora wari A80/6 baciro yogyakarta indonesia
http://www.natural-fiber.com

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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50:07AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
 Le 2011-09-25 à 09:29:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :

 The patch below fixes the problem.  I don't know if it's the right solution,
 though.

 Pd doesn't _have_ to pass keynums around like that. If the Tk code were  
 sending Up/Down/Left/Right names as given by Tk's bind's %K (uppercase),  
 then you wouldn't have to replicate in g_editor.c things that Tk already  
 does as part of its portability layer.

Ha, interesting.

The patch below, which also achieves correct behavior of cursor keys under Snow
Leopard, is an alternative to the patch supplied earlier.  This one has the
advantage of removing the #ifdef __APPLE__ code from src/g_editor.c, as the
normalization is now achieved via Tk.  However, I don't yet understand all the
ramifications, just as I did not with the last patch.

Marvin Humphrey


From 08d585e6f4d9158f94edc8896de80a3635bb717f Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:57:13 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] Normalize cursor key behavior at the Tcl level.

Take advantage of Tk's portability layer for normalizing cursor key values
instead of reproducing it ourselves at the C level.
---
 src/g_editor.c  |   10 --
 tcl/pd_bindings.tcl |4 
 2 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 10 deletions(-)

diff --git a/src/g_editor.c b/src/g_editor.c
index f494732..983f463 100644
--- a/src/g_editor.c
+++ b/src/g_editor.c
@@ -1699,16 +1699,6 @@ void canvas_key(t_canvas *x, t_symbol *s, int ac, t_atom 
*av)
 keyupsym = gensym(#keyup);
 keynamesym = gensym(#keyname);
 }
-#ifdef __APPLE__
-if (keynum == 30)
-keynum = 0, gotkeysym = gensym(Up);
-else if (keynum == 31)
-keynum = 0, gotkeysym = gensym(Down);
-else if (keynum == 28)
-keynum = 0, gotkeysym = gensym(Left);
-else if (keynum == 29)
-keynum = 0, gotkeysym = gensym(Right);
-#endif
 if (keynumsym-s_thing  down)
 pd_float(keynumsym-s_thing, (t_float)keynum);
 if (keyupsym-s_thing  !down)
diff --git a/tcl/pd_bindings.tcl b/tcl/pd_bindings.tcl
index 82ac350..cff0bbc 100644
--- a/tcl/pd_bindings.tcl
+++ b/tcl/pd_bindings.tcl
@@ -249,6 +249,10 @@ proc ::pd_bindings::sendkey {window state key iso shift} {
 Tab   { set iso ; set key 9 }
 Return{ set iso ; set key 10 }
 Escape{ set iso ; set key 27 }
+Left  { set iso ; set key 28 }
+Right { set iso ; set key 29 }
+Up{ set iso ; set key 30 }
+Down  { set iso ; set key 31 }
 Space { set iso ; set key 32 }
 Delete{ set iso ; set key 127 }
 KP_Delete { set iso ; set key 127 }
-- 
1.7.3.2




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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 01:59:20PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
 None of these combinations provide that behavior on Pd Vanilla built from
 latest git on OS X 10.6:

    control-Enter
    command-Enter
    option-Enter
    shift-Enter

 I could live with control-Enter instead of ESC (especially since I've
 rewired my caps lock key to control at the OS level using the Keyboard system
 prefs) -- though ESC works so well for switching modes in Vim. :)

 The only thing that has made sense to me is :

   Enter for accepting changes made in a box's text and exit that mode ;

Well, that's the simplest and possibly the best design.   It mates up the
most easy and obvious keypress with the most common case.

However, it's also the most invasive modification.  If anyone is accustomed to
being able to produce a newline with Enter while editing text into Message or
Comment boxes, they will have to change their habits.  Are there people who
would object to such an change?

   Escape for cancelling those changes and exit that mode too ;

Good idea -- that's consistent with Mac GUI design for closing dialog boxes
without making changes.  I like it!

Is that also consistent with the traditional behavior of Escape under Windows
and X?

   Shift-Enter to insert a literal newline in a box's text (currently
   meaningless because they get replaced by Space by the loader/saver) ;

Newlines seem to be normalized to Spaces for Pd Objects, but that doesn't seem
to be the case for either Messages or Comments.

Using Shift-Enter for newlines doesn't seem like a very intuitive design to
me.  I suspect that a significant fraction of the people who want newlines
will never discover the magic key combo.  However, that may be a price worth
paying to optimize the common case.

   Those shortcuts don't necessarily apply to the main Edit Mode... I don't
   recall whether we bound Enter to « switch to text edition ». 

Your English is 100x better than my French, but I assume that when you wrote
edition, you meant editing?  

   Escape has no effect in that context, because there's no modal
   dialogue-like thing to get out of.

So, if I understand correctly, you are suggesting that these key bindings
would only take effect while actively editing the text of an Object, Message,
or Comment.  If that's the case, +1 -- I agree.

Cheers,

Marvin Humphrey


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing



On Sep 27, 2011, at 11:47 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:


On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50:07AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

Le 2011-09-25 à 09:29:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :

The patch below fixes the problem.  I don't know if it's the right  
solution,

though.


Pd doesn't _have_ to pass keynums around like that. If the Tk code  
were
sending Up/Down/Left/Right names as given by Tk's bind's %K  
(uppercase),
then you wouldn't have to replicate in g_editor.c things that Tk  
already

does as part of its portability layer.


Ha, interesting.

The patch below, which also achieves correct behavior of cursor keys  
under Snow
Leopard, is an alternative to the patch supplied earlier.  This one  
has the
advantage of removing the #ifdef __APPLE__ code from src/ 
g_editor.c, as the
normalization is now achieved via Tk.  However, I don't yet  
understand all the

ramifications, just as I did not with the last patch.

Marvin Humphrey



The question with this patch then, is does it work fine on GNU/Linux  
and Windows?  I really think the whole key handling code in both Tcl  
and C needs rewriting rather than patching.  Perhaps matju's answer is  
the way forward, making it based on the %K bind var rather the %k.


I added a couple more keys to your origin one:


arrow_keys.patch
Description: Binary data




.hc



Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is  
related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra



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Re: [PD] [fux_qrcode] - qrcode reader for puredata



Ah, cool, now I need to find me some qrcodes to play with :)

.hc

On Sep 27, 2011, at 10:19 PM, Budi Prakosa wrote:


hi list,

for a project i have to make a simple interactive photobooth that
triggered by showing qrcode to webcam
and it will take photo automaticly and upload it to facebook.
Here is the qrcode part i hope this will be useful!

https://github.com/badgeek/fux_qrcode


cheers

--
Budi Prakosa
house of natural fiber (HONF)
yogyakarta new media art laboratory
wora wari A80/6 baciro yogyakarta indonesia
http://www.natural-fiber.com

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If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.



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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:34:43AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
The three clauses of the BSD license used by Pd Vanilla are compatible with
both
the GPL v2 v3

Integrating GPL code with BSD code makes GPL the overall dominant
license, as in it has all the clauses of BSD and makes the most
restrictions. The BSD license still applies to any portions still under
BSD license.

The pdextended license (GPL) doesn't say to which parts of the programme
it applies, and all the copyright/license notices I can find (in a bêta
of 42) are all BSD. Changes additions to BSD code don't have to be
under the BSD license, thus if it's not stated, it's somewhat harder to
make any assumptions...

According to Intellectual Property and Open Source by Van Lindberg[1] (which
I highly recommend), a patch which is offered up on a mailing list or through
a patch tracker comes with an implicit grant of license to use it in the
project, which means that it must be licensed under the same terms as the
project itself. I can't imagine that some sort of submarine licensing attempt
would hold up in court: Yes, I acknowledge that my patch was against a file
with a BSD license header, but even though I didn't say so, I contributed it
under the terms of the GPL and I refuse to grant a BSD license. Gimme a
break!

I think it's rational to assume that mistakes notwithstanding[2], all content
of any BSD-licensed file in the Pd source is under the BSD license, and all
content of any file with a GPL notice is under the GPL.

If any contributor ever intended some other outcome but did not communicate
their desires explicitly, that cannot possibly be worth worrying about. To
make trouble, the disgruntled contributor would have to be A) prepared to sue
over the distinction between two free software licenses and B) prepared to
lose.

That kind of license fuzz is tolerated because pd developers have no
expectation that lawyers ever have to put their nose in the project...
and even if they did, they would not have the background to know how to
fix it, or know which advice they can trust.

While copyright violations do not result in injunctions unless a litigant
appears, I do not believe it is in the interest of any project to neglect the
law.

I think that this is true of many (if not most) open/free projects.

I'm not comfortable with that generalization.

Open source projects with commercial involvement tend to be fastidious about
intellectual property, and there is a lot of activity in that area these days.
Indeed, part of the appeal of Apache projects is that the ASF is known to
emphasize IP cleanliness, and companies feel more comfortable sponsoring
development on projects that aren't likely to be sunk by completely avoidable
legal problems.

Ever increasing numbers of developers are paid to work on open source, which
is a glorious and beautiful thing. But personally, even before most of my
open source dev work was sponsored, I was careful about IP, partly because
it's the right thing to do and partly because I was determined not to squander
untold hours of labor and creativity. I don't think that outlook is uncommon.

It makes sense for us as developers to protect our investments by doing our
best to understand and adhere to relevant laws -- whether our livelihoods
depend on it, or whether we work on a project for fun or other personal
reasons.

Marvin Humphrey

[1]
http://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Property-Open-Source-Protecting/dp/0596517963

[2] Mistakes do happen. Sometimes they are fixable:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-675?focusedCommentId=12901057page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-12901057

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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-27 à 20:47:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :

This one has the advantage of removing the #ifdef __APPLE__ code from 
src/g_editor.c, as the normalization is now achieved via Tk.  However, I 
don't yet understand all the ramifications, just as I did not with the 
last patch.


looks all fine to me...

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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing


Le 2011-09-26 à 17:26:00, Marvin Humphrey a écrit :


On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 08:40:22AM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

so if you want your patches to be included into Pd proper, then they
must (legally) be BSD3.


The main restriction here is that you cannot take or revise someone else's code 
that
is licensed under the GPL and decide to _change_ the license to something else. 
The GPL does not allow that.


Unless you are the copyright holder, you can't *change* the license of BSD3
code, either.


That's a misconception stemming from the concept of effective license of a 
combination of pieces : if half of the software is under BSD3 and half of 
the software is under GPL3, then complying with GPL3 will automatically 
make you BSD3-compliant as well. However, you can still take the BSD3 part 
of it and combine it with proprietary code and ship as a tamper-protected 
EXE if you like, as long as no GPL code remains, because the BSD3 code 
hasn't magically changed license by its contact with GPL code.


It might also have to do with propaganda about some licenses being 
« viral » in non-defined terms, leading people to dream awake about 
fictional laws that would allow a license-switch that hasn't been formally 
approved by all the copyright holders.


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:43:06AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 The question with this patch then, is does it work fine on GNU/Linux and 
 Windows?

I don't know.  I'm experienced with cross-platform development and I have a
Windows 7 dev environment available via a Bootcamp partition, so in theory I
could check.  It seems likely to work, but it has not been verified.  It's a
PITA to power down OS X and fire up Windows, so I don't do it very often.  No
X Windows box immediately available, either.

I don't see any unit tests.   Are there any?

 I really think the whole key handling code in both Tcl and C 
 needs rewriting rather than patching.

I'm not prepared to offer an opinion on that, as I'm not yet sufficiently
familiar with the code base.

If we were to make such an attempt, I'd suggest preserving the existing
interface while changing the implementation.  And of course it would seem wise
to secure the blessing of Mr. Puckette in advance as to the general approach.

 Perhaps matju's answer is the way forward, making it based on the %K bind
 var rather the %k.

That seemed logical to me and I attempted to figure it out, but came up short.
Grepping the source for %k didn't turn up anything.  Grepping for %K
turned up the pd_bindings.tcl file, and I hacked from there.

 I added a couple more keys to your origin one:

Nice!

Marvin Humphrey


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Re: [PD] Keyboard shortcuts for nudge, done editing