Re: [PD] Initializing an array with random data.

[matt tytel]

Ah thanks,
If I wanted to initialize an array with some other data (basically i want to 
come up with a rand score) is there a good way to do that?


On Apr 8, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Jonathan Wilkes  wrote:

> It's pretty easy if you don't mind having dsp on:
> 
> [noise~]
> |
> |  [bang(
> | /
> [tabwrite~ foo]
> 
> [table foo]
> 
> From: Matthew Tytel 
> To: pd-list@iem.at 
> Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 1:23 AM
> Subject: [PD] Initializing an array with random data.
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm looking for a good way to reinitialize data in an array with random data. 
> Basically I want to be able to bang a subpatch and have it enter totally new 
> randomized data into it.
> I made one using the step object but it's very hacked together. Any 
> suggestions?
> 
> Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask, 
> Matt
> 
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Re: [PD] Initializing an array with random data.

[Jonathan Wilkes]

It's pretty easy if you don't mind having dsp on:


[noise~]
|

|  [bang(

| /

[tabwrite~ foo]

[table foo]




>
> From: Matthew Tytel 
>To: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 1:23 AM
>Subject: [PD] Initializing an array with random data.
> 
>
>Hi there,
>
>
>I'm looking for a good way to reinitialize data in an array with random data. 
>Basically I want to be able to bang a subpatch and have it enter totally new 
>randomized data into it.
>I made one using the step object but it's very hacked together. Any 
>suggestions?
>
>Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask, 
>Matt
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[PD] Initializing an array with random data.

[Matthew Tytel]

Hi there,

I'm looking for a good way to reinitialize data in an array with random
data.
Basically I want to be able to bang a subpatch and have it enter totally
new randomized data into it.
I made one using the step object but it's very hacked together. Any
suggestions?

Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask,
Matt
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[PD] pd on a ARM v7 tablet

[patrick]

hi everyone,

people might be interested to see puredata running on a tablet (uPad +- 
140$). both inputs and outputs are working.


http://www.workinprogress.ca/puredata-tablet/

cheers

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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Martin Peach]

On 2012-04-08 20:45, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:17 PM, katja wrote:


On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:


The main reason why this is still like this is because no one has written 
better code, then done thorough testing in order to prove that the new code 
doesn't break anything.  People have written better code for this before, no 
one has done the thorough testing part...


Hans, can you point to such code, is there still something available
somewhere? I may be able to test it using the testtools templates.
Such code could be a very useful precision improvement, even though
it's not the same as double precision.


Hmm, can't think of any off hand, but its not too hard.  My thought would be to 
sprintf("%.06f"), then strip off trailing zeros and decimal points.  The rounding stuff 
is harder, but I am not sure that the current sprintf("%g") handles the rounding any 
differently:

(from man 3 printf)
  gG  The double argument is converted in style f or e (or F or E for G
  conversions).  The precision specifies the number of significant
  digits.  If the precision is missing, 6 digits are given; if the
  precision is zero, it is treated as 1.  Style e is used if the 
expo-
  nent from its conversion is less than -4 or greater than or equal 
to
  the precision.  Trailing zeros are removed from the fractional 
part
  of the result; a decimal point appears only if it is followed by 
at
  least one digit.


I get this on WinXP:

float pi as %g: 3.14159 as %f: 3.141593 as  %0.24f: 
3.1415927410125732
double pi as %g: 3.14159 as %f: 3.141593 as %0.24f: 
3.1415926535897931

Pi to 24 places: 3.141592653589793238462643.

using this code:

#include 
#include
#include 

int main (void)
{
float fpi = 4.0*atan(1.0);
double dpi = 4.0*atan(1.0);

fprintf(stdout, "float pi as %%g: %g as %%f: %f as  %%0.24f: 
%0.24f\n", fpi, fpi, fpi);
fprintf(stdout, "double pi as %%g: %g as %%f: %f as %%0.24f: 
%0.24f\n", dpi, dpi, dpi);

fprintf(stdout, "Pi to 24 places: 3.141592653589793238462643.\n");
exit (EXIT_SUCCESS);
}


Martin

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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:17 PM, katja wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:
>> 
>> The main reason why this is still like this is because no one has written 
>> better code, then done thorough testing in order to prove that the new code 
>> doesn't break anything.  People have written better code for this before, no 
>> one has done the thorough testing part...
> 
> Hans, can you point to such code, is there still something available
> somewhere? I may be able to test it using the testtools templates.
> Such code could be a very useful precision improvement, even though
> it's not the same as double precision.

Hmm, can't think of any off hand, but its not too hard.  My thought would be to 
sprintf("%.06f"), then strip off trailing zeros and decimal points.  The 
rounding stuff is harder, but I am not sure that the current sprintf("%g") 
handles the rounding any differently:

(from man 3 printf)
 gG  The double argument is converted in style f or e (or F or E for G
 conversions).  The precision specifies the number of significant
 digits.  If the precision is missing, 6 digits are given; if the
 precision is zero, it is treated as 1.  Style e is used if the 
expo-
 nent from its conversion is less than -4 or greater than or equal 
to
 the precision.  Trailing zeros are removed from the fractional part
 of the result; a decimal point appears only if it is followed by at
 least one digit.

.hc




I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a 
day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, 
equality and freedom for their spirits.  - Martin Luther King, Jr.



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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

Whops, I should have read the other replies first :$

On 04/09/2012 01:23 AM, Matteo Sisti Sette wrote:

On 04/08/2012 04:27 PM, katja wrote:


I've once compiled (vanilla) Pd with the format specifiers changed to
print up to 8 significant digits, and soon found why it is normally
done with 6 digits max. You get things like this:

33 * 0.3 = 9.91


That is completely unrelated. That is an issue intrinsic in floating
point numbers.

Reducing the precision of numbers when writing them to files (or when
parsing messages or whatever) is an issue in Pd.

One thing is rounding numbers for _displaying_ them, another thing is
rounding them when _storing_ them (whether in a file or wherever).

Consider this: I create a patch like this:

[9.91(
|
[== 9.9]
|
[print]

This prints 0, as expected.

Then I save and close it. I load it, and it has been transformed into this:

[9.9(
|
[== 9.9]
|
[print]

which obviously prints 1.

This is WRONG, there's no reason why it could be good or even
acceptable. I do understand why it happens.


By the way, if you write into an object box:

[f 9.90001]

it is immediately changed into: [f 9.9]

Which is also WRONG (why shouldn't I be able to create an object with a
parameter value which _can_ be represented without loss of
information?), but it is much "less wrong" than the previous case in
that this is CONSISTENT. In this case, at least, "what you have is what
you save" (note that "what you see" is not an issue).

The case of message boxes (not to mention arrays) is devastating,
because you may not realise you're going to loose information until you
save the patch, close and reopen it.



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Re: [PD] [OT] sf/bay area anyone?

[José Rafael Subía Valdez]

I'll be there, I present my paper on saturday. :) see ya

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Charles Henry  wrote:

> I will be out to see the conference also.  I noticed you and Peter
> will be the first presenters--I will look forward to it.
>
> Chuck
>
> On 4/8/12, IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> > since i spend a few days in san francisco (for visiting the linux audio
> > conference [1] in stanford) i wanted to ask whether there are some Pders
> > round here who would like to go for a beer...
> >
> > fgmasdr
> > IOhannes
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/
> >
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-- 
Lic. José Rafael Subía Valdez

SoundArtist
www.facebook.com/JRafaelSubiaValdez (Public Page)
www.myspace.com/joserafaelsubiavaldez
https://puredata.info/author/rafasubia
www.redce.org
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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

On 04/08/2012 04:27 PM, katja wrote:


I've once compiled (vanilla) Pd with the format specifiers changed to
print up to 8 significant digits, and soon found why it is normally
done with 6 digits max. You get things like this:

33 * 0.3 = 9.91


That is completely unrelated. That is an issue intrinsic in floating 
point numbers.


Reducing the precision of numbers when writing them to files (or when 
parsing messages or whatever) is an issue in Pd.


One thing is rounding numbers for _displaying_ them, another thing is 
rounding them when _storing_ them (whether in a file or wherever).


Consider this: I create a patch like this:

[9.91(
 |
[== 9.9]
 |
[print]

This prints 0, as expected.

Then I save and close it. I load it, and it has been transformed into this:

[9.9(
 |
[== 9.9]
 |
[print]

which obviously prints 1.

This is WRONG, there's no reason why it could be good or even 
acceptable. I do understand why it happens.



By the way, if you write into an object box:

[f 9.90001]

it is immediately changed into: [f 9.9]

Which is also WRONG (why shouldn't I be able to create an object with a 
parameter value which  _can_ be represented without loss of 
information?), but it is much "less wrong" than the previous case in 
that this is CONSISTENT. In this case, at least, "what you have is what 
you save" (note that "what you see" is not an issue).


The case of message boxes (not to mention arrays) is devastating, 
because you may not realise you're going to loose information until you 
save the patch, close and reopen it.


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Re: [PD] [OT] sf/bay area anyone?

[Charles Henry]

I will be out to see the conference also.  I noticed you and Peter
will be the first presenters--I will look forward to it.

Chuck

On 4/8/12, IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> since i spend a few days in san francisco (for visiting the linux audio
> conference [1] in stanford) i wanted to ask whether there are some Pders
> round here who would like to go for a beer...
>
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
>
>
>
> [1] http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/
>
> ___
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> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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[PD] [OT] sf/bay area anyone?

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

since i spend a few days in san francisco (for visiting the linux audio 
conference [1] in stanford) i wanted to ask whether there are some Pders 
round here who would like to go for a beer...


fgmasdr
IOhannes



[1] http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] new GUI obect: filterview, for generating and seeing biquad coefficients

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Hmm, I thought I got rid of that issue with it sticking to the mouse pointer... 
arg.  Can you tell me the steps to reproduce it?

I should add more to the help patch.  The goal was to make it as 
self-explanatory as possible.  So you can click and move the filter center and 
gain, and click and drag on the vertical bandwidth lines to control the 
bandwidth.

.hc

On Apr 8, 2012, at 4:33 PM, Samuel Burt wrote:

> Hans,
> 
> This is so exciting. The binary is working here on a MacIntosh 2.8 GHz Intel 
> Core 2 Duo with OS 10.6.8. I thought you might appreciate some quick user 
> feedback.
> 
> When I click the graphic, it lets me adjust frequency and amplitude, but then 
> my cursor gets stuck to it like mouse up isn't working. Every time I click it 
> adds another red vertical line.
> 
> A slight bit more documentation would be helpful in the help patch, too, 
> explaining how one can interact with the graph with the mouse. Is it possible 
> to change the bandwidth with the GUI? is there a key combination one can hold?
> 
> Sam
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 8, 2012, at 2:55 , pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:
> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 12:50:05 -0400
>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] new GUI obect: filterview,   for
>>  generating and seeing biquad coefficients
>> To: Mike Moser-Booth 
>> Cc: pd-list@iem.at, Marco Donnarumma 
>> Message-ID: <8bb69cdd-86cb-4455-8524-d2200a226...@at.or.at>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> 
>> Ok, big update, this should work a lot better.
>> 
>> http://puredata.info/downloads/filterview
>> 
>> I changed the formula below to be a fixed resolution of 5 pixels.  I was 
>> thinking that this should be generalized into a general biquad~ library, so 
>> with objects like [bandpass] to calculate biquad coefficients.  The 
>> calculations could all be written in C as a shared library, then the Tcl 
>> code could use those C functions also, which I think would allow for 1 pixel 
>> resolution.  My guess is that doing the math in C would make things 
>> noticeably faster.
>> 
>> .hc
> 





I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that 
period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for 
Wall Street and the bankers.  - General Smedley Butler


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Re: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music

[Iain Mott]

you'll also need to add to the line: -jack
also be sure that jack is running.
cheers,
Iain



On Sun, 2012-04-08 at 15:31 -0400, Rishabh Natarajan wrote:
> Hi Iain,
> 
> 
> When trying to start pd-extended from command line with the '-channels
> 16' argument, I get an error saying:
> 
> 
> Error number -9998 opening portaudio stream
> Error message: Invalid number of channels
> 
> I can't seem to figure out why this is happening and am not able to
> find any sources on the internet that explain why this is happening. I
> had started pd once before with some other arguments, but have since
> closed it and opened it up again through the GUI, so I'm thinking the
> default flags should've undone my last command line start?
> 
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Rishabh
> 
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Rishabh Natarajan
>  wrote:
> @Iain: Yes, how silly of me, the crossfade is to avoid the
> clicks. I never thought of it that way. Hence the pleas to
> ignore my naivete. Thanks for sharing the patch with me. I
> shall go through it and I'm sure it will clear out a lot of
> things.
> 
> 
> @Colet Patrice: Hey, thanks for writing to me. Well, the
> reason I want to do it in pd is because I wanted to be able to
> switch routing so that I can move sound around however
> and wherever I want. I want to be able to switch functionality
> of the same set of sliders to control all sound, in all
> directions. Also, I wanted to incorporate other functions like
> latency meters and allowing for Q'ing to headphones depending
> on which mix one is currently working on in the mixer, or even
> independent of that actually. It should be fairly functional
> without having too much detail, simple because I'm pressed for
> time!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Rishabh
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Patrice Colet
>  wrote:
> Hello Rishabh,
>  you should be able to use jack for local and distant
> sound system,
> no need for internal drivers through pd.
> In both adc~ and dac~ each argument is the number of
> audio voice coming from/to jack
> eg: [adc~ 4 1 2 3] would output from left to right the
> inputs 4 1 2 3 from jack interface
> but if sound processing is just about amplitude, you
> don't even have to bother with pd (sorry pd-list ^^)
> because jack mixer would be enough for that.
> 
> for building a virtual mixer it's really easy in pd,
> it's just a slider with default values connected to
> [dbtorms] for controling the amplitude
> of a signal coming in [*~]'s left inlet by connecting
> it to right inlet after a conversion from message to
> audio with the help of [line~]
> 
> 
> [adc~ 1]
> |
> |[hslider]
> | |
> |[dbtorms]
> | |
> |[pack 0 10]
> | |
> |[line~]
> | |
> [*~]
> |
> [throw~ master]
> 
> [catch~ master]
> |
> [dac 1]
> 
> this simple example is mono, use [catch~ master-left]
> and [catch~ master-right] for retrieving two voices
> coming from [pan~],
> all signals are mixed through [throw~] and [catch~]
> bus.
> 
> Colet Patrice
> 
> - Mail original -
> > De: "Rishabh Natarajan"
> 
> > À: pd-list@iem.at
> > Envoyé: Samedi 7 Avril 2012 19:57:20
> > Objet: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to build a virtual mixer in pd for
> telematic music.
> > Telematic
> > music is a genre of music where the musicians
> collaborate live but
> > are
> > situated in different locations (cities), over the
> internet.
> >
> > My mixer should be able to take in remote channels
> coming in through
> > Jack
> > and route to the local sound system and also,
> through some interface
> > be
> > able to take in local inputs and send out via Jack
> to the remote
> 

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] new GUI obect: filterview, for generating and seeing biquad coefficients

[Samuel Burt]

Hans,

This is so exciting. The binary is working here on a MacIntosh 2.8 GHz Intel 
Core 2 Duo with OS 10.6.8. I thought you might appreciate some quick user 
feedback.

When I click the graphic, it lets me adjust frequency and amplitude, but then 
my cursor gets stuck to it like mouse up isn't working. Every time I click it 
adds another red vertical line.

A slight bit more documentation would be helpful in the help patch, too, 
explaining how one can interact with the graph with the mouse. Is it possible 
to change the bandwidth with the GUI? is there a key combination one can hold?

Sam



On Apr 8, 2012, at 2:55 , pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 12:50:05 -0400
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] new GUI obect: filterview,for
>   generating and seeing biquad coefficients
> To: Mike Moser-Booth 
> Cc: pd-list@iem.at, Marco Donnarumma 
> Message-ID: <8bb69cdd-86cb-4455-8524-d2200a226...@at.or.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> Ok, big update, this should work a lot better.
> 
> http://puredata.info/downloads/filterview
> 
> I changed the formula below to be a fixed resolution of 5 pixels.  I was 
> thinking that this should be generalized into a general biquad~ library, so 
> with objects like [bandpass] to calculate biquad coefficients.  The 
> calculations could all be written in C as a shared library, then the Tcl code 
> could use those C functions also, which I think would allow for 1 pixel 
> resolution.  My guess is that doing the math in C would make things 
> noticeably faster.
> 
> .hc

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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Martin Peach]

Here's a patch I submitted:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2952880&group_id=55736&atid=478072

Martin


On 2012-04-08 15:17, katja wrote:

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:


The main reason why this is still like this is because no one has written 
better code, then done thorough testing in order to prove that the new code 
doesn't break anything.  People have written better code for this before, no 
one has done the thorough testing part...


Hans, can you point to such code, is there still something available
somewhere? I may be able to test it using the testtools templates.
Such code could be a very useful precision improvement, even though
it's not the same as double precision.

Katja

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Re: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music

[Rishabh Natarajan]

Hi Iain,

When trying to start pd-extended from command line with the '-channels 16'
argument, I get an error saying:

Error number -9998 opening portaudio stream
Error message: Invalid number of channels

I can't seem to figure out why this is happening and am not able to find
any sources on the internet that explain why this is happening. I had
started pd once before with some other arguments, but have since closed it
and opened it up again through the GUI, so I'm thinking the default flags
should've undone my last command line start?

Please advise.

Thanks,
Rishabh

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Rishabh Natarajan <
rishabh.natara...@gmail.com> wrote:

> @Iain: Yes, how silly of me, the crossfade is to avoid the clicks. I never
> thought of it that way. Hence the pleas to ignore my naivete. Thanks for
> sharing the patch with me. I shall go through it and I'm sure it will clear
> out a lot of things.
>
> @Colet Patrice: Hey, thanks for writing to me. Well, the reason I want to
> do it in pd is because I wanted to be able to switch routing so that I can
> move sound around however and wherever I want. I want to be able to switch
> functionality of the same set of sliders to control all sound, in all
> directions. Also, I wanted to incorporate other functions like latency
> meters and allowing for Q'ing to headphones depending on which mix one is
> currently working on in the mixer, or even independent of that actually. It
> should be fairly functional without having too much detail, simple because
> I'm pressed for time!
>
> Thanks,
> Rishabh
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Patrice Colet wrote:
>
>> Hello Rishabh,
>>  you should be able to use jack for local and distant sound system,
>> no need for internal drivers through pd.
>> In both adc~ and dac~ each argument is the number of audio voice coming
>> from/to jack
>> eg: [adc~ 4 1 2 3] would output from left to right the inputs 4 1 2 3
>> from jack interface
>> but if sound processing is just about amplitude, you don't even have to
>> bother with pd (sorry pd-list ^^)
>> because jack mixer would be enough for that.
>>
>> for building a virtual mixer it's really easy in pd, it's just a slider
>> with default values connected to [dbtorms] for controling the amplitude
>> of a signal coming in [*~]'s left inlet by connecting it to right inlet
>> after a conversion from message to audio with the help of [line~]
>>
>>
>> [adc~ 1]
>> |
>> |[hslider]
>> | |
>> |[dbtorms]
>> | |
>> |[pack 0 10]
>> | |
>> |[line~]
>> | |
>> [*~]
>> |
>> [throw~ master]
>>
>> [catch~ master]
>> |
>> [dac 1]
>>
>> this simple example is mono, use [catch~ master-left] and [catch~
>> master-right] for retrieving two voices coming from [pan~],
>> all signals are mixed through [throw~] and [catch~] bus.
>>
>> Colet Patrice
>>
>> - Mail original -
>> > De: "Rishabh Natarajan" 
>> > À: pd-list@iem.at
>> > Envoyé: Samedi 7 Avril 2012 19:57:20
>> > Objet: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm trying to build a virtual mixer in pd for telematic music.
>> > Telematic
>> > music is a genre of music where the musicians collaborate live but
>> > are
>> > situated in different locations (cities), over the internet.
>> >
>> > My mixer should be able to take in remote channels coming in through
>> > Jack
>> > and route to the local sound system and also, through some interface
>> > be
>> > able to take in local inputs and send out via Jack to the remote
>> > system.
>> >
>> > The questions I have are:
>> > 1. can I have 2 adc~ objects in one patch? So that I can switch the
>> > same
>> > set of faders to control either signals going to and coming from Jack
>> > or
>> > going to and coming from my local interface? if so, how do I achieve
>> > this?
>> > 2. If I need to be able to route sound over the internet via Jack and
>> > to
>> > and from my local system via an interface, how do I make pd use both
>> > Jack
>> > and the local interface (for example the coremidi on a mac) at the
>> > same
>> > time? This sort of ties in with the first question.
>> >
>> > My time to do all of this is really short and I am very new to pd.
>> > Any help
>> > with this would really, really be appreciated!
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Rishabh
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> >
>>
>
>
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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[katja]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:
>
> The main reason why this is still like this is because no one has written 
> better code, then done thorough testing in order to prove that the new code 
> doesn't break anything.  People have written better code for this before, no 
> one has done the thorough testing part...

Hans, can you point to such code, is there still something available
somewhere? I may be able to test it using the testtools templates.
Such code could be a very useful precision improvement, even though
it's not the same as double precision.

Katja

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] new GUI obect: filterview, for generating and seeing biquad coefficients

[Julian Brooks]

Yay - very nice.

Works great with both most recent Pd & PdE on Puredyne.

Cheers,

Julian
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Re: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music

[Rishabh Natarajan]

@Iain: Yes, how silly of me, the crossfade is to avoid the clicks. I never
thought of it that way. Hence the pleas to ignore my naivete. Thanks for
sharing the patch with me. I shall go through it and I'm sure it will clear
out a lot of things.

@Colet Patrice: Hey, thanks for writing to me. Well, the reason I want to
do it in pd is because I wanted to be able to switch routing so that I can
move sound around however and wherever I want. I want to be able to switch
functionality of the same set of sliders to control all sound, in all
directions. Also, I wanted to incorporate other functions like latency
meters and allowing for Q'ing to headphones depending on which mix one is
currently working on in the mixer, or even independent of that actually. It
should be fairly functional without having too much detail, simple because
I'm pressed for time!

Thanks,
Rishabh

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Patrice Colet wrote:

> Hello Rishabh,
>  you should be able to use jack for local and distant sound system,
> no need for internal drivers through pd.
> In both adc~ and dac~ each argument is the number of audio voice coming
> from/to jack
> eg: [adc~ 4 1 2 3] would output from left to right the inputs 4 1 2 3 from
> jack interface
> but if sound processing is just about amplitude, you don't even have to
> bother with pd (sorry pd-list ^^)
> because jack mixer would be enough for that.
>
> for building a virtual mixer it's really easy in pd, it's just a slider
> with default values connected to [dbtorms] for controling the amplitude
> of a signal coming in [*~]'s left inlet by connecting it to right inlet
> after a conversion from message to audio with the help of [line~]
>
>
> [adc~ 1]
> |
> |[hslider]
> | |
> |[dbtorms]
> | |
> |[pack 0 10]
> | |
> |[line~]
> | |
> [*~]
> |
> [throw~ master]
>
> [catch~ master]
> |
> [dac 1]
>
> this simple example is mono, use [catch~ master-left] and [catch~
> master-right] for retrieving two voices coming from [pan~],
> all signals are mixed through [throw~] and [catch~] bus.
>
> Colet Patrice
>
> - Mail original -
> > De: "Rishabh Natarajan" 
> > À: pd-list@iem.at
> > Envoyé: Samedi 7 Avril 2012 19:57:20
> > Objet: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to build a virtual mixer in pd for telematic music.
> > Telematic
> > music is a genre of music where the musicians collaborate live but
> > are
> > situated in different locations (cities), over the internet.
> >
> > My mixer should be able to take in remote channels coming in through
> > Jack
> > and route to the local sound system and also, through some interface
> > be
> > able to take in local inputs and send out via Jack to the remote
> > system.
> >
> > The questions I have are:
> > 1. can I have 2 adc~ objects in one patch? So that I can switch the
> > same
> > set of faders to control either signals going to and coming from Jack
> > or
> > going to and coming from my local interface? if so, how do I achieve
> > this?
> > 2. If I need to be able to route sound over the internet via Jack and
> > to
> > and from my local system via an interface, how do I make pd use both
> > Jack
> > and the local interface (for example the coremidi on a mac) at the
> > same
> > time? This sort of ties in with the first question.
> >
> > My time to do all of this is really short and I am very new to pd.
> > Any help
> > with this would really, really be appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rishabh
> >
> > ___
> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
>
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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

The main reason why this is still like this is because no one has written 
better code, then done thorough testing in order to prove that the new code 
doesn't break anything.  People have written better code for this before, no 
one has done the thorough testing part...

.hc

On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:58 PM, Martin Peach wrote:

> It's because Pd saves the value by printing it as text into the patch file 
> using a reduced precision format specifier (%g instead of %f, or %0.6f) so 
> that the numbers look good on screen, with no extra zeros for example.
> I don't like it either.
> 
> Martin
> 
> On 2012-04-07 22:40, Angakok Thoth wrote:
>> that's not what i mean.
>> 
>> i mean, that when i write 12345678 (must be 100% accurate within 32bit
>> float with 24bit mantissa) into an array and read it from there, it's
>> still 12345678.
>> but when i save that patch, close it and reload it, and i read from the
>> array, i get 12345700.
>> 
>> nothing to do with limitations of floating point number.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:23 AM, i go bananas > > wrote:
>> 
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_point
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] new GUI obect: filterview, for generating and seeing biquad coefficients

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Ok, big update, this should work a lot better.

http://puredata.info/downloads/filterview

I changed the formula below to be a fixed resolution of 5 pixels.  I was 
thinking that this should be generalized into a general biquad~ library, so 
with objects like [bandpass] to calculate biquad coefficients.  The 
calculations could all be written in C as a shared library, then the Tcl code 
could use those C functions also, which I think would allow for 1 pixel 
resolution.  My guess is that doing the math in C would make things noticeably 
faster.

.hc


On Apr 4, 2012, at 3:47 PM, Mike Moser-Booth wrote:
> 
> That actually can be fixed (or at least improved) in line 75:
> 
> for {set x [expr int($framex1)]} {$x <= $framex2} {incr x [expr
> $framewidth/40]} {
> 
> It's only calculating 40 points within however many pixels the width
> is. It should probably be incrementing by a constant, with 1 being
> every pixel.
> 
> .mmb
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, I've seen that.  That's really a matter of getting the math right for
>> the calculations to draw the lines.  I suck at math so I'll leave that up to
>> someone who doesn't.  The math is all in the filterview.tcl file.
>> 
>> .hc
>> 
>> On Apr 4, 2012, at 9:21 AM, batinste wrote:
>> 
>> I built it for pd-ext 64bits on ubuntu current, it works well (some crashes
>> at exit, as you said) !
>> Is there an easy way to make the magnitude response polygon less "polygoney"
>> ? If you move a strong notch filter along the spectrum, you can actually see
>> the line acting like a bike chain, thus changing the visually perceived
>> response of the filter.
>> 
>> On 03/04/2012 21:31, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
>> 
>> Looks lovely!
>> Thanks guys,
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Announcing [filterview], a new GUI object for generating and visualizing
>>> biquad coefficients.  It allows to you manipulate the filter band,
>>> frequency, and gain using your mouse.  The magnatude and phase are then
>>> graphed in realtime as the parameters changed, and the list of biquad
>>> coefficients are output. It is inspired by the [filtergraph~] object in
>>> Max/MSP.  Thanks to Mike Moser-Booth for doing all of the math behind the
>>> scenes.
>>> 
>>> It requires Pd-extended 0.43 to run. I just got to a beta state, it works
>>> well for me, but it does crash Pd sometimes when you close a patch with
>>> [filterview] in it.  Try it out and let me know how it works for you.
>>> 
>>> http://puredata.info/downloads/filterview
>>> 
>>> Also, as a side note, this object is an experiment with a new way of
>>> writing GUI objects.  It started out as a pure Tcl program, and the GUI part
>>> still runs as a standalone Tcl program (try running ./filterview.tcl from
>>> the Terminal).  This makes development and debugging vastly easier.
>>>  Additionally, I tried to move more of the GUI code to the Tcl side, so
>>> you'll see that it uses fewer widgetbehaviors, and uses Tk's bind feature
>>> quite a bit.
>>> 
>>> .hc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>kill your television
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Pd-announce mailing list
>>> pd-annou...@iem.at
>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Marco Donnarumma
>> New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director.
>> ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing)
>> The University of Edinburgh, UK
>> ~
>> Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
>> Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | 
>> http://www.flxer.net
>> Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mike Moser-Booth - mmoserbo...@gmail.com
> Master's Student in Music Technology
> Schulich School of Music, McGill University
> Centre for Interdisciplinary Research in Music Media and Technology
> 
> "Words that make questions may not be questions at all." -- Neil deGrasse 
> Tyson





Man has survived hitherto because he was too 

Re: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music

[Patrice Colet]

Hello Rishabh,
 you should be able to use jack for local and distant sound system,
no need for internal drivers through pd.
In both adc~ and dac~ each argument is the number of audio voice coming from/to 
jack
eg: [adc~ 4 1 2 3] would output from left to right the inputs 4 1 2 3 from jack 
interface
but if sound processing is just about amplitude, you don't even have to bother 
with pd (sorry pd-list ^^)
because jack mixer would be enough for that.

for building a virtual mixer it's really easy in pd, it's just a slider with 
default values connected to [dbtorms] for controling the amplitude
of a signal coming in [*~]'s left inlet by connecting it to right inlet after a 
conversion from message to audio with the help of [line~]
 

[adc~ 1]
|
|[hslider]
| |
|[dbtorms]
| |
|[pack 0 10]
| |
|[line~]
| |
[*~]
|
[throw~ master]

[catch~ master]
|
[dac 1]

this simple example is mono, use [catch~ master-left] and [catch~ master-right] 
for retrieving two voices coming from [pan~],
all signals are mixed through [throw~] and [catch~] bus.

Colet Patrice

- Mail original -
> De: "Rishabh Natarajan" 
> À: pd-list@iem.at
> Envoyé: Samedi 7 Avril 2012 19:57:20
> Objet: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to build a virtual mixer in pd for telematic music.
> Telematic
> music is a genre of music where the musicians collaborate live but
> are
> situated in different locations (cities), over the internet.
> 
> My mixer should be able to take in remote channels coming in through
> Jack
> and route to the local sound system and also, through some interface
> be
> able to take in local inputs and send out via Jack to the remote
> system.
> 
> The questions I have are:
> 1. can I have 2 adc~ objects in one patch? So that I can switch the
> same
> set of faders to control either signals going to and coming from Jack
> or
> going to and coming from my local interface? if so, how do I achieve
> this?
> 2. If I need to be able to route sound over the internet via Jack and
> to
> and from my local system via an interface, how do I make pd use both
> Jack
> and the local interface (for example the coremidi on a mac) at the
> same
> time? This sort of ties in with the first question.
> 
> My time to do all of this is really short and I am very new to pd.
> Any help
> with this would really, really be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks,
> Rishabh
> 
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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[katja]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette
 wrote:
>
> On 04/08/2012 04:58 AM, Martin Peach wrote:
>>
>> It's because Pd saves the value by printing it as text into the patch
>> file using a reduced precision format specifier (%g instead of %f, or
>> %0.6f) so that the numbers look good on screen, with no extra zeros for
>> example.
>> I don't like it either.
>
>
> I wonder how can anyone possibly like that


I've once compiled (vanilla) Pd with the format specifiers changed to
print up to 8 significant digits, and soon found why it is normally
done with 6 digits max. You get things like this:

33 * 0.3 = 9.91

That is because binary numbers round differently than decimal numbers.
The default format with maximum 6 significant digits avoids some of
the confusion, but some (rare) inconsistencies still happen with 6
significant digits, like this one:

7.1 - 7 = 0.099

In MaxMsp this is handled like so: if the numbox is too small to show
the 0.099, it shows 0.1 followed by however many trailing zero's
fit in the numbox. Pd instead, shows 0.09 if the numbox width is 4.
Also in MaxMsp you can create for example [* 1073741824.] (2^30, a
number which can be expressed with exactness in single precision float
format). If you try to create [* 1073741825.], it automatically
creates [* 1073741824.], because 1073741825. can't be expressed in
single precision.

Would be super to have such careful handling and storage of floats in
Pd. MaxMsp demonstrates that it is somehow possible.

Katja

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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Matteo Sisti Sette]

On 04/08/2012 04:58 AM, Martin Peach wrote:

It's because Pd saves the value by printing it as text into the patch
file using a reduced precision format specifier (%g instead of %f, or
%0.6f) so that the numbers look good on screen, with no extra zeros for
example.
I don't like it either.


I wonder how can anyone possibly like that

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Re: [PD] why does PD round numbers? (in tables, in messageboxes, etc)

[Pedro Lopes]

If this happens, then it should be really given some thought.



I guess one of the downsides of graphical dataflow is that we see what we
get (kinda like WYSIWIG editors), therefore there should be a way to always
get dirty and non rounded numbers on screen and onto loaded patches.
Otherwise we are missing something essential. I see multiple ways pd could
do it:

1) saving to file is always preserving precision and no rounding; GUI by
default shows rounded versions for space sake or to avoid messy patches;
tough the user has the possibility to choose a overall setting or per GUI
object that enables him to see the full thing.

or conversely

2) saving to file is always preserving precision and no rounding; GUI by
default shows the real stored number; tough the user has the possibility to
choose a overall setting or per GUI object that enables him to see only see
rounded version on the object.



On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Martin Peach wrote:

> It's because Pd saves the value by printing it as text into the patch file
> using a reduced precision format specifier (%g instead of %f, or %0.6f) so
> that the numbers look good on screen, with no extra zeros for example.
> I don't like it either.
>
> Martin
>
> On 2012-04-07 22:40, Angakok Thoth wrote:
>
>> that's not what i mean.
>>
>> i mean, that when i write 12345678 (must be 100% accurate within 32bit
>> float with 24bit mantissa) into an array and read it from there, it's
>> still 12345678.
>> but when i save that patch, close it and reload it, and i read from the
>> array, i get 12345700.
>>
>> nothing to do with limitations of floating point number.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:23 AM, i go bananas > > wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Floating_point
>>
>>
>>
>>
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contact: pedro.lo...@ist.utl.pt
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Re: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music

[Iain Mott]

Hi Rishabh,

If you switch between two input signals without some kind of cross-fade
(fading one signal out while the other is faded in) you will most likely
experience an audible click.

To mix between two groups of 8 inputs you can use 8 polygate~ objects
with the arguments of each one set for example as "2 100". The 2 is the
number of input channels and the 100 is the cross-fade time in msec. You
can adjust the value to a much longer time if you wish. Best leave
polygate~ at its default "equal power" setting (see the help file) as
this offers a more even loudness (perceived amplitude) during the fade
(switch), assuming the 2 inputs are of roughly equal amplitude.

I've attached an example patch - and will paste contents below.

Don't forget you'll need to launch Pd with the command line argument
"-channels 16" in order to patch with jack.

Cheers and good luck

iain


#N canvas 332 91 1212 660 10;
#X obj 187 -14 adc~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8;
#X obj 388 -15 adc~ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16;
#X obj 257 107 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 281 133 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 305 159 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 332 185 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 350 217 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 377 243 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 401 269 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 428 295 polygate~ 2 100;
#X obj 269 327 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 3800 1;
#X obj 199 481 r~ fader1;
#X obj 192 129 s~ fader1;
#X obj 202 161 s~ fader2;
#X obj 224 192 s~ fader3;
#X obj 235 216 s~ fader4;
#X obj 277 241 s~ fader5;
#X obj 297 270 s~ fader6;
#X obj 337 297 s~ fader7;
#X obj 399 328 s~ fader8;
#X msg -121 29 ftime-epower \$1;
#X msg 56 27 choice \$1;
#X floatatom -121 5 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X text -167 -15 set cross-fade time (msec);
#X text 34 -23 choose location;
#N canvas 72 366 600 400 tone2 0;
#X obj 235 235 outlet~;
#X obj 276 197 *~ 0.2;
#X obj 228 157 osc~ 600;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X restore 357 -56 pd tone2;
#N canvas 1 66 600 400 tone1 0;
#X obj 131 240 outlet~;
#X obj 124 162 osc~ 500;
#X obj 172 202 *~ 0.2;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 0 0;
#X restore 295 -57 pd tone1;
#X msg 37 2 1;
#X msg 75 3 2;
#X text 207 -36 location 1;
#X text 431 -36 location 2;
#X obj 547 596 dac~ 1 2;
#X obj 255 508 *~;
#X obj 269 487 line~;
#X msg 269 464 \$1 100;
#X obj 379 328 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 365 509 *~;
#X obj 379 488 line~;
#X msg 379 465 \$1 100;
#X obj 496 330 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 482 511 *~;
#X obj 496 490 line~;
#X msg 496 467 \$1 100;
#X obj 606 331 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 592 512 *~;
#X obj 606 491 line~;
#X msg 606 468 \$1 100;
#X obj 727 334 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 713 515 *~;
#X obj 727 494 line~;
#X msg 727 471 \$1 100;
#X obj 837 335 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 823 516 *~;
#X obj 837 495 line~;
#X msg 837 472 \$1 100;
#X obj 954 337 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 940 518 *~;
#X obj 954 497 line~;
#X msg 954 474 \$1 100;
#X obj 1064 338 vsl 15 128 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty 0 -9 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 0 1;
#X obj 1050 519 *~;
#X obj 1064 498 line~;
#X msg 1064 475 \$1 100;
#X obj 310 483 r~ fader2;
#X obj 426 484 r~ fader3;
#X obj 536 485 r~ fader4;
#X obj 657 488 r~ fader5;
#X obj 767 489 r~ fader6;
#X obj 885 491 r~ fader7;
#X obj 994 492 r~ fader8;
#X text 284 -76 you can use these to test;
#X connect 0 0 2 0;
#X connect 0 1 3 0;
#X connect 0 2 4 0;
#X connect 0 3 5 0;
#X connect 0 4 6 0;
#X connect 0 5 7 0;
#X connect 0 6 8 0;
#X connect 0 7 9 0;
#X connect 1 0 2 1;
#X connect 1 1 3 1;
#X connect 1 2 4 1;
#X connect 1 3 5 1;
#X connect 1 4 6 1;
#X connect 1 5 7 1;
#X connect 1 6 8 1;
#X connect 1 7 9 1;
#X connect 2 0 12 0;
#X connect 3 0 13 0;
#X connect 4 0 14 0;
#X connect 5 0 15 0;
#X connect 6 0 16 0;
#X connect 7 0 17 0;
#X connect 8 0 18 0;
#X connect 9 0 19 0;
#X connect 10 0 34 0;
#X connect 11 0 32 0;
#X connect 20 0 2 0;
#X connect 20 0 3 0;
#X connect 20 0 4 0;
#X connect 20 0 5 0;
#X connect 20 0 6 0;
#X connect 20 0 7 0;
#X connect 20 0 8 0;
#X connect 20 0 9 0;
#X connect 21 0 2 0;
#X connect 21 0 3 0;
#X connect 21 0 4 0;
#X connect 21 0 5 0;
#X connect 21 0 6 0;
#X connect 21 0 7 0;
#X connect 21 0 8 0;
#X connect 21 0 9 0;
#X connect 22 0 20 0;
#X connect 27 0 21 0;
#X connect 28 0 21 0;
#X connect 32 0 31 0;
#X connect 32 0 31 1;
#X connect 33 0 32 1;
#X connect 34 0 33 0;
#X connect 35 0 38 0;
#X connect 36 0 31 0;
#X connect 36 0 31 1;
#X connect 37 0 36 1;
#X connect 38 0 37 0;
#X connect 39 0 42 0;
#X connect 40 0 31 0;
#X connect 40 0 31 1;
#X connect 41 0 40 1;
#X connect 42 0 41 0;
#X connect 43 0 46 0;
#X connect 44 0 31 0;
#X connect 44 0 31 1;
#X connect 45 0 44 1;
#X connect 46 0 45 0;
#X connect 47 0 50 0;
#X connect 48 0 31 0;
#X connect 48 0 31 1;
#X connect 49 0 48 1;
#X connect 50 0 49 0;
#X connect 51 0 54 0;
#

Re: [PD] Virtual Mixer for Telematic Music

[katja]

Hello,

I remember that some time ago, an elaborate project for mixing over TCP/IP
was released, called XmiX. There may be a lot of tricks in it that you can
use. See this announcement on Pd forum:

http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-5114-xmix-announce


Katja




On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 7:57 PM, Rishabh Natarajan <
rishabh.natara...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to build a virtual mixer in pd for telematic music. Telematic
> music is a genre of music where the musicians collaborate live but are
> situated in different locations (cities), over the internet.
>
> My mixer should be able to take in remote channels coming in through Jack
> and route to the local sound system and also, through some interface be
> able to take in local inputs and send out via Jack to the remote system.
>
> The questions I have are:
> 1. can I have 2 adc~ objects in one patch? So that I can switch the same
> set of faders to control either signals going to and coming from Jack or
> going to and coming from my local interface? if so, how do I achieve this?
> 2. If I need to be able to route sound over the internet via Jack and to
> and from my local system via an interface, how do I make pd use both Jack
> and the local interface (for example the coremidi on a mac) at the same
> time? This sort of ties in with the first question.
>
> My time to do all of this is really short and I am very new to pd. Any
> help with this would really, really be appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Rishabh
>
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