Re: [PD] [PD-dev] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables

[Roman Haefeli]

On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 22:00 +0100, Ed Kelly wrote:
> Hi Lists(s),
> 
> 
> I'm rewriting phasor~ and unifying it with metro so that a pulse is
> generated from the boundaries of each ramp - so that bars of music can
> be read using tabread~ objects with a sample-accurate metro.
> 
> 
> I'm sure someone will say this can already be done,

Yes!

>  but it has to be dropped into the Ninja Jamm patch, so there isn't
> really time to rewrite the rest of the patch.

Frankly, I am pretty sure, just using what Pd provides is too easy to
use and likely less time consuming than writing your custom external.
(Or I am totally missing the point of this adventure).
 

> I don't fully understand the way phasor~ wraps, but I have the object
> firing out bar numbers correctly. I'm putting clocks in for 16ths and
> 24ths of the beat, initiated on each wrap. I need to minimise CPU, so
> what I want to know is this:
> 
> 
> Does phasor~ always start from 0 and go to 1, i.e. is there always a
> signal value of 0 at the start of the ramp and a signal value of 1 at
> the end? As I write this, my common sense tells me it should be "yes"
> but I want to make sure. I suppose I should just try it really...

No, it's not the case. A [phasor~] ramp virtually starts always at 0 and
ends at 1 - true, but most of the time the wrapping point doesn't lie
exactly on sample boundaries. This means the sample values around the
wrapping point are almost never 1 or 0, respectively. 

Trying to derive precise timing from the audio domain is a moot exercise
anyway, in my opinion. The best you can get from this approach is sample
precision and analyzing all samples of a signal is relatively
expensive. 

If you truly care about CPU consumption and a proper design from the
start, use [metro] - which is as precise as 32-bit floats can be - and
[vline~] - which actually uses the  precise timing from [metro] (as
opposed to [line~] that doesn't).

With this combo [metro]/[vline~] you can rebuild [phasor~] with the
additional benefit of giving you more-than-sample-exact bangs at the
wrapping points. The only drawback compared to [phasor~] is that the
latter allows to control the frequency with a signal and the
[metro]/[vline~] based phasor obviously doesn't. 

I'll be glad to help you build the [phasor~] replacement that has an
additional bang outlet, if you need it.

Roman


  






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Re: [PD] Pd as sound editor (issue with "scrolling" a table) ??

[i go bananas]

>>Remember that when you redraw an element of an array you actually redraw
the _entire_ array in Pd Vanilla.  And depending on the array style you may
have a separate tk canvas item for each element.<<

why do the iem tab objects work so much better then?  maelstorm said that
it was incredibly slow using an [until] based counter, but worked smoothly
with the iem objects.  This was for EXACTLY the same gui, so i'm not really
sure if it's a gui redraw issue.

Then again, he also said that the iem tabs objects seem to process tables
in chunks...so maybe the gui is also only redrawn in those chunk sizes?
 that would make sense i guess.




On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Billy Stiltner wrote:

> "So when you use the [until] loop you are sending drawing instructions to
> the GUI ($arraysize * $no_mouse_events) times.  A single array redraw
> instruction in tcl is about 4k, so to scroll a single pixel for a
> 100-element array:
> 100 elements * 1 = 100 redraws * 4k = 400k"
>
> thats why i say fix tcl/tk
> my old graphics library could be used for a new gui. it is c++ but has the
> logic to even only update lines as in blit an arbitrary line.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>
>>  On 03/04/2014 01:20 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>
>> On 03/04/2014 10:11 AM, i go bananas wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-04 12:12 GMT+01:00 i go bananas :
>>>
>>>  just for interest perhaps, here's the sound editor i made years ago:

  http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-1295-sound-editor

  and probably even more interesting, here is maelstorm's wave display
 abstraction:

  http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-5890-waveform-display



  basically, what maelstorm discovered was that using [until] with a
 counter was not nearly fast enough to do the calculations needed for a
 decent zoom/scroll function, and we looked into it, and there just didn't
 seem to be a vanilla workaround.  So he uses iem_tab objects to do the
 table calculations.

>>>
>> Remember that when you redraw an element of an array you actually redraw
>> the _entire_ array in Pd Vanilla.  And depending on the array style you may
>> have a separate tk canvas item for each element.
>>
>> So when you use the [until] loop you are sending drawing instructions to
>> the GUI ($arraysize * $no_mouse_events) times.  A single array redraw
>> instruction in tcl is about 4k, so to scroll a single pixel for a
>> 100-element array:
>> 100 elements * 1 = 100 redraws * 4k = 400k
>>
>> That's flowing from the core to the GUI for a _single_ mouse event.  If
>> you trigger ten scrolls you're already at 4 megs of data sent.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure commercial editors avoid that type of design.  In editors
>> like the upcoming Openshot Video that have several discrete parts that
>> sending messages, the GUI part almost certainly sends nothing at all to the
>> video core for zooming/scrolling.  For moving a chunk of audio/video, it
>> almost certainly sends a single message about a single object's delta.
>>
>>
>> I may have showed this already, but I think it's instructive here:
>> https://jwilkes.nfshost.com/pd-tiger.webm
>>
>> I don't have sound on that clip, but I believe I tried it with the "test
>> audio" patch going and I wasn't getting dropouts.  This is because a) I'm
>> sending a single transform message for every scroll of the number box and
>> b) the GUI toolkit-- not Pd core-- is doing the math to transform and
>> redisplay the drawing.
>>
>> Socket traffic is bad because it require both the core (sending) and GUI
>> (receiving) to do work.  If you generate megs and megs of traffic you can
>> end up with dropouts and choking display even if there's very little being
>> redrawn.
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Pd as sound editor (issue with "scrolling" a table) ??

[Billy Stiltner]

i will look into it next week after my social escapades


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:36 AM, i go bananas  wrote:

> >>Remember that when you redraw an element of an array you actually
> redraw the _entire_ array in Pd Vanilla.  And depending on the array style
> you may have a separate tk canvas item for each element.<<
>
> why do the iem tab objects work so much better then?  maelstorm said that
> it was incredibly slow using an [until] based counter, but worked smoothly
> with the iem objects.  This was for EXACTLY the same gui, so i'm not really
> sure if it's a gui redraw issue.
>
> Then again, he also said that the iem tabs objects seem to process tables
> in chunks...so maybe the gui is also only redrawn in those chunk sizes?
>  that would make sense i guess.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Billy Stiltner 
> wrote:
>
>> "So when you use the [until] loop you are sending drawing instructions to
>> the GUI ($arraysize * $no_mouse_events) times.  A single array redraw
>> instruction in tcl is about 4k, so to scroll a single pixel for a
>> 100-element array:
>> 100 elements * 1 = 100 redraws * 4k = 400k"
>>
>> thats why i say fix tcl/tk
>> my old graphics library could be used for a new gui. it is c++ but has
>> the logic to even only update lines as in blit an arbitrary line.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>
>>>  On 03/04/2014 01:20 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>>
>>> On 03/04/2014 10:11 AM, i go bananas wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>

 2014-03-04 12:12 GMT+01:00 i go bananas :

  just for interest perhaps, here's the sound editor i made years ago:
>
>  http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-1295-sound-editor
>
>  and probably even more interesting, here is maelstorm's wave display
> abstraction:
>
>  http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-5890-waveform-display
>
>
>
>  basically, what maelstorm discovered was that using [until] with a
> counter was not nearly fast enough to do the calculations needed for a
> decent zoom/scroll function, and we looked into it, and there just didn't
> seem to be a vanilla workaround.  So he uses iem_tab objects to do the
> table calculations.
>

>>> Remember that when you redraw an element of an array you actually redraw
>>> the _entire_ array in Pd Vanilla.  And depending on the array style you may
>>> have a separate tk canvas item for each element.
>>>
>>> So when you use the [until] loop you are sending drawing instructions to
>>> the GUI ($arraysize * $no_mouse_events) times.  A single array redraw
>>> instruction in tcl is about 4k, so to scroll a single pixel for a
>>> 100-element array:
>>> 100 elements * 1 = 100 redraws * 4k = 400k
>>>
>>> That's flowing from the core to the GUI for a _single_ mouse event.  If
>>> you trigger ten scrolls you're already at 4 megs of data sent.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure commercial editors avoid that type of design.  In
>>> editors like the upcoming Openshot Video that have several discrete parts
>>> that sending messages, the GUI part almost certainly sends nothing at all
>>> to the video core for zooming/scrolling.  For moving a chunk of
>>> audio/video, it almost certainly sends a single message about a single
>>> object's delta.
>>>
>>>
>>> I may have showed this already, but I think it's instructive here:
>>> https://jwilkes.nfshost.com/pd-tiger.webm
>>>
>>> I don't have sound on that clip, but I believe I tried it with the "test
>>> audio" patch going and I wasn't getting dropouts.  This is because a) I'm
>>> sending a single transform message for every scroll of the number box and
>>> b) the GUI toolkit-- not Pd core-- is doing the math to transform and
>>> redisplay the drawing.
>>>
>>> Socket traffic is bad because it require both the core (sending) and GUI
>>> (receiving) to do work.  If you generate megs and megs of traffic you can
>>> end up with dropouts and choking display even if there's very little being
>>> redrawn.
>>>
>>> -Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> -Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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[PD] Data structures and click event

[Pierre Massat]

Dear list,

First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of
data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a
pity because it's really worth diving into it.
That being said I think that help and example patches are far from
sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's
s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them
(stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with
proper scaling, etc.).

I m now stuck with a question. How can I identify the element which was
just clicked ? I know that [struc] outputs the events, like click,
selection and change, but I thought I could identify individual elements by
their pointer id. It turns out that I get the same pointer for every
element, although I created them sequentially (using [append]).

(I guess something must be escaping me about pointers... I've noticed that
within the same template, I get different pointers for elements on
different y-levels, but the same pointer for all the element on the same
y-level regardless of their x.)

Cheers,

Pierre
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Re: [PD] Data structures and click event

[Pierre Massat]

Nevermind, it's working the way I expected, the y value was being output
and I thought that was the pointer's id.

Cheers,

Pierre.


2014-03-05 11:24 GMT+01:00 Pierre Massat :

> Dear list,
>
> First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of
> data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a
> pity because it's really worth diving into it.
> That being said I think that help and example patches are far from
> sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's
> s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them
> (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with
> proper scaling, etc.).
>
> I m now stuck with a question. How can I identify the element which was
> just clicked ? I know that [struc] outputs the events, like click,
> selection and change, but I thought I could identify individual elements by
> their pointer id. It turns out that I get the same pointer for every
> element, although I created them sequentially (using [append]).
>
> (I guess something must be escaping me about pointers... I've noticed that
> within the same template, I get different pointers for elements on
> different y-levels, but the same pointer for all the element on the same
> y-level regardless of their x.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pierre
>
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Re: [PD] Data structures and click event

[Jonathan Wilkes]

On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote:

Dear list,

First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential 
of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and 
it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it.
That being said I think that help and example patches are far from 
sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's 
s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use 
them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use 
GOP with proper scaling, etc.).


It's not just the documentation, it's the interface.  Having to walk 
linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad.  Having to use 
boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad.


I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data 
structure stuff in it.  It's a first step at addressing some of these 
issues.


-Jonathan



I m now stuck with a question. How can I identify the element which 
was just clicked ? I know that [struc] outputs the events, like click, 
selection and change, but I thought I could identify individual 
elements by their pointer id. It turns out that I get the same pointer 
for every element, although I created them sequentially (using [append]).


(I guess something must be escaping me about pointers... I've noticed 
that within the same template, I get different pointers for elements 
on different y-levels, but the same pointer for all the element on the 
same y-level regardless of their x.)


Cheers,

Pierre


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Re: [PD] Pd as sound editor (issue with "scrolling" a table) ??

[Jonathan Wilkes]

On 03/05/2014 04:36 AM, i go bananas wrote:
>>Remember that when you redraw an element of an array you actually 
redraw the _entire_ array in Pd Vanilla.  And depending on the array 
style you may have a separate tk canvas item for each element.<<


why do the iem tab objects work so much better then?


I haven't looked at the code, but I'd imagine those externals do some 
array-wide operation then trigger a single redraw of the entire array.  
For a 100-element array that'd be 100x faster.


But if you want the GUI to look modern you want the chunk of samples 
you're displacing to redraw ASAP.  For that Pd (Vanilla) still needs to 
continually delete and redraw the array as you click-drag the 
selection.  So it's better than the worst of all possible worlds-- using 
[tabwrite]-- but still extremely inefficient (not to mention it doesn't 
scale).


To be fair, it's unclear how to "do this right" even with a "clean" 
separation of GUI/core.  It's unclear what "clean" means, and it's 
unclear what "this" is.


To be specific: it's really hard to predict what purpose the user will 
find for the realtime audio engine when the GUI is also a programming 
language.  For example, you can get all kinds of speedups in a DAW by 
waiting for the user to release the mouse button when displacing a 
selection.  But if you did that by default for "Put" menu arrays you'd 
ruin several of Miller's tutorials, where an immediate connection 
between visual array change and audio change is vital if inefficient.


-Jonathan

 maelstorm said that it was incredibly slow using an [until] based 
counter, but worked smoothly with the iem objects.  This was for 
EXACTLY the same gui, so i'm not really sure if it's a gui redraw issue.


Then again, he also said that the iem tabs objects seem to process 
tables in chunks...so maybe the gui is also only redrawn in those 
chunk sizes?  that would make sense i guess.





On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Billy Stiltner 
mailto:billy.stilt...@gmail.com>> wrote:


"So when you use the [until] loop you are sending drawing
instructions to the GUI ($arraysize * $no_mouse_events) times.  A
single array redraw instruction in tcl is about 4k, so to scroll a
single pixel for a 100-element array:
100 elements * 1 = 100 redraws * 4k = 400k"

thats why i say fix tcl/tk
my old graphics library could be used for a new gui. it is c++ but
has the logic to even only update lines as in blit an arbitrary line.


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Jonathan Wilkes
mailto:jancs...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

On 03/04/2014 01:20 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

On 03/04/2014 10:11 AM, i go bananas wrote:

[...]




2014-03-04 12:12 GMT+01:00 i go bananas
mailto:hard@gmail.com>>:

just for interest perhaps, here's the sound editor i
made years ago:

http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-1295-sound-editor

and probably even more interesting, here is
maelstorm's wave display abstraction:

http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-5890-waveform-display



basically, what maelstorm discovered was that using
[until] with a counter was not nearly fast enough to
do the calculations needed for a decent zoom/scroll
function, and we looked into it, and there just
didn't seem to be a vanilla workaround.  So he uses
iem_tab objects to do the table calculations.



Remember that when you redraw an element of an array you
actually redraw the _entire_ array in Pd Vanilla.  And
depending on the array style you may have a separate tk
canvas item for each element.

So when you use the [until] loop you are sending drawing
instructions to the GUI ($arraysize * $no_mouse_events)
times.  A single array redraw instruction in tcl is about 4k,
so to scroll a single pixel for a 100-element array:
100 elements * 1 = 100 redraws * 4k = 400k

That's flowing from the core to the GUI for a _single_ mouse
event.  If you trigger ten scrolls you're already at 4 megs
of data sent.

I'm pretty sure commercial editors avoid that type of
design.  In editors like the upcoming Openshot Video that
have several discrete parts that sending messages, the GUI
part almost certainly sends nothing at all to the video core
for zooming/scrolling.  For moving a chunk of audio/video, it
almost certainly sends a single message about a single
object's delta.


I may have showed this already, but I think it's instructive here:
https://jwilkes.nfshost.com/pd-tiger.webm

I don't have sound on that clip, but I believe I tried it with
the "test audio" patch going and I wasn't getting dropouts. 
This is because a) I'm sending a sin

Re: [PD] Bugs in Pd-Extended in Ubuntu LTS

[Pierre Massat]

Hi,

Just a quick follow up on this topic. I have just compiled Miller's latest
version (0.45-4), and the bug that's crashing X is still there. This time I
managed to reproduce it somehow by creating an empty object to make a
subpatch and typing "pd m" (and bang it crashed). Same behaviour with the
same patch in pd-extended 0.43.4.
It's super annoying...

Cheers,

Pierre.


2014-02-25 23:16 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic :

> Once pd-extended removes unnecessary dependency on pd-utils you will.
> Until then you will need to uninstall one and install the other.
> On Feb 25, 2014 4:54 PM, "Pierre Massat"  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Katja, I will try to check if this is a problem with pulse audio. I also
>> have a jackdbus running even when applications supposed to use it are
>> closed (Ardour and Pd in my case).
>>
>> Can I install pd-l2ork alongside pd-extended, or do I have to uninstall
>> it first ?
>>
>> Pierre.
>>
>>
>> 2014-02-25 22:22 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic :
>>
>>> Guys, Can you check if pd-l2ork works OK and please report? We provide
>>> native Ubuntu builds (built for 12.04).
>>>  On Feb 25, 2014 4:20 PM, "katja"  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Pierre,

 I'm on Xubuntu 12.04 with Pd-extended 0.44 and have experienced big
 troubles with Jack too. I only use Jack for complex routings like
 Skype to Pd or Kdenlive to Pd via PulseAudio+Jack. I got a lot of
 jackdbus-errors initially, and jack wouldn't restart. Don't know if
 it's the same issue which you're experiencing. Anyway, it seems that
 this was about jackd2 writing config files to different places, which
 can be out of sync under certain conditions. Not sure if this is a
 correct description but it is my interpretation. Looking at running
 processes in command htop, I always noticed a jackdbus processing
 still running when the dbus error was given. Killing the jackdbus
 process sometimes helped. But in the course of time I've somehow
 learned how to avoid it at all, by carefully considering the right
 order of operations when starting processes. I have PulseAudio
 disabled by default, so I can start Jack first, then the Jack clients,
 of which PulseAudio may be one. Then eventually the PulseAudio
 clients. When killing processes, everything in reverse order. I don't
 like this hocus pocus, but well, I'm happy if it works at all. On
 Kubuntu I couldn't get PulseAudio to cooperate with Jack.

 Katja

 On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Pierre Massat 
 wrote:
 > I just checked again and to to sum up I have three problems :
 > - errors with JACK (and instability),
 > - X crashes sometimes when typing stuff in an object box,
 > - and Alsa throwing this error in the console : "ALSA output error
 (restart
 > failed): Broken pipe" (though the sound does work).
 >
 > Pierre.
 >
 >
 > 2014-02-25 21:23 GMT+01:00 Cyrille Henry :
 >
 >>
 >>
 >> Le 25/02/2014 21:03, Roman Haefeli a écrit :
 >>
 >>> On Die, 2014-02-25 at 19:50 +0100, Pierre Massat wrote:
 >>>
 >>>
  I have installed Pd-extended from the Ubuntu repos. It seems to be
 the
  same version as the one available on puredata.info (0.43.4).
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> I am pretty sure there is no package called 'pd-extended' in the
 Ubuntu
 >>> repositories. Probably you got it from Hans' ppa or from
 >>> apt.puredata.info?
 >>>
 >>> Also, is your Ubuntu 12.04 up-to-date? Your bug description sounds
 like
 >>> an intel driver bug in 13.04 or 13.10 that has been discussed a lot
 on
 >>> this list. I thought this bug has been fixed for quite a while.
 >>
 >> i still have some problem. (i'm on 13.10). X can crash specially if
 i have
 >> object that are not created on the patch.
 >> c
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Roman
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
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Re: [PD] Bugs in Pd-Extended in Ubuntu LTS

[Jack]

Did you try with Ubuntu 13.04 ?
With this version, I don't get crash when i create an object or when the
object doesn't exist. I have to admit, i get crash in very rare cases,
so it is not totally fixed yet (but it is better when i was with Ubuntu
12.04).
++

Jack



Le 05/03/2014 21:03, Pierre Massat a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> Just a quick follow up on this topic. I have just compiled Miller's
> latest version (0.45-4), and the bug that's crashing X is still there.
> This time I managed to reproduce it somehow by creating an empty
> object to make a subpatch and typing "pd m" (and bang it crashed).
> Same behaviour with the same patch in pd-extended 0.43.4.
> It's super annoying...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pierre.
>
>
> 2014-02-25 23:16 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:
>
> Once pd-extended removes unnecessary dependency on pd-utils you
> will. Until then you will need to uninstall one and install the other.
>
> On Feb 25, 2014 4:54 PM, "Pierre Massat"  > wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Katja, I will try to check if this is a problem with pulse
> audio. I also have a jackdbus running even when applications
> supposed to use it are closed (Ardour and Pd in my case).
>
> Can I install pd-l2ork alongside pd-extended, or do I have to
> uninstall it first ?
>
> Pierre.
>
>
> 2014-02-25 22:22 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic  >:
>
> Guys, Can you check if pd-l2ork works OK and please
> report? We provide native Ubuntu builds (built for 12.04).
>
> On Feb 25, 2014 4:20 PM, "katja"  > wrote:
>
> Hi Pierre,
>
> I'm on Xubuntu 12.04 with Pd-extended 0.44 and have
> experienced big
> troubles with Jack too. I only use Jack for complex
> routings like
> Skype to Pd or Kdenlive to Pd via PulseAudio+Jack. I
> got a lot of
> jackdbus-errors initially, and jack wouldn't restart.
> Don't know if
> it's the same issue which you're experiencing. Anyway,
> it seems that
> this was about jackd2 writing config files to
> different places, which
> can be out of sync under certain conditions. Not sure
> if this is a
> correct description but it is my interpretation.
> Looking at running
> processes in command htop, I always noticed a jackdbus
> processing
> still running when the dbus error was given. Killing
> the jackdbus
> process sometimes helped. But in the course of time
> I've somehow
> learned how to avoid it at all, by carefully
> considering the right
> order of operations when starting processes. I have
> PulseAudio
> disabled by default, so I can start Jack first, then
> the Jack clients,
> of which PulseAudio may be one. Then eventually the
> PulseAudio
> clients. When killing processes, everything in reverse
> order. I don't
> like this hocus pocus, but well, I'm happy if it works
> at all. On
> Kubuntu I couldn't get PulseAudio to cooperate with Jack.
>
> Katja
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Pierre Massat
> mailto:pimas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > I just checked again and to to sum up I have three
> problems :
> > - errors with JACK (and instability),
> > - X crashes sometimes when typing stuff in an object
> box,
> > - and Alsa throwing this error in the console :
> "ALSA output error (restart
> > failed): Broken pipe" (though the sound does work).
> >
> > Pierre.
> >
> >
> > 2014-02-25 21:23 GMT+01:00 Cyrille Henry
> mailto:c...@chnry.net>>:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 25/02/2014 21:03, Roman Haefeli a écrit :
> >>
> >>> On Die, 2014-02-25 at 19:50 +0100, Pierre Massat
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
>  I have installed Pd-extended from the Ubuntu
> repos. It seems to be the
>  same version as the one available on
> puredata.info  (0.43.4).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am pretty sure there is no package called
> 'pd-extended' 

Re: [PD] Bugs in Pd-Extended in Ubuntu LTS

[Jack]

Oups, i wanted to say 'Ubuntu 13.10'.
++

Jack


Le 05/03/2014 21:28, Jack a écrit :
> Did you try with Ubuntu 13.04 ?
> With this version, I don't get crash when i create an object or when
> the object doesn't exist. I have to admit, i get crash in very rare
> cases, so it is not totally fixed yet (but it is better when i was
> with Ubuntu 12.04).
> ++
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Le 05/03/2014 21:03, Pierre Massat a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just a quick follow up on this topic. I have just compiled Miller's
>> latest version (0.45-4), and the bug that's crashing X is still
>> there. This time I managed to reproduce it somehow by creating an
>> empty object to make a subpatch and typing "pd m" (and bang it
>> crashed). Same behaviour with the same patch in pd-extended 0.43.4.
>> It's super annoying...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pierre.
>>
>>
>> 2014-02-25 23:16 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:
>>
>> Once pd-extended removes unnecessary dependency on pd-utils you
>> will. Until then you will need to uninstall one and install the
>> other.
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2014 4:54 PM, "Pierre Massat" > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Katja, I will try to check if this is a problem with pulse
>> audio. I also have a jackdbus running even when applications
>> supposed to use it are closed (Ardour and Pd in my case).
>>
>> Can I install pd-l2ork alongside pd-extended, or do I have to
>> uninstall it first ?
>>
>> Pierre.
>>
>>
>> 2014-02-25 22:22 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic > >:
>>
>> Guys, Can you check if pd-l2ork works OK and please
>> report? We provide native Ubuntu builds (built for 12.04).
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2014 4:20 PM, "katja" > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Pierre,
>>
>> I'm on Xubuntu 12.04 with Pd-extended 0.44 and have
>> experienced big
>> troubles with Jack too. I only use Jack for complex
>> routings like
>> Skype to Pd or Kdenlive to Pd via PulseAudio+Jack. I
>> got a lot of
>> jackdbus-errors initially, and jack wouldn't restart.
>> Don't know if
>> it's the same issue which you're experiencing.
>> Anyway, it seems that
>> this was about jackd2 writing config files to
>> different places, which
>> can be out of sync under certain conditions. Not sure
>> if this is a
>> correct description but it is my interpretation.
>> Looking at running
>> processes in command htop, I always noticed a
>> jackdbus processing
>> still running when the dbus error was given. Killing
>> the jackdbus
>> process sometimes helped. But in the course of time
>> I've somehow
>> learned how to avoid it at all, by carefully
>> considering the right
>> order of operations when starting processes. I have
>> PulseAudio
>> disabled by default, so I can start Jack first, then
>> the Jack clients,
>> of which PulseAudio may be one. Then eventually the
>> PulseAudio
>> clients. When killing processes, everything in
>> reverse order. I don't
>> like this hocus pocus, but well, I'm happy if it
>> works at all. On
>> Kubuntu I couldn't get PulseAudio to cooperate with Jack.
>>
>> Katja
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Pierre Massat
>> mailto:pimas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > I just checked again and to to sum up I have three
>> problems :
>> > - errors with JACK (and instability),
>> > - X crashes sometimes when typing stuff in an
>> object box,
>> > - and Alsa throwing this error in the console :
>> "ALSA output error (restart
>> > failed): Broken pipe" (though the sound does work).
>> >
>> > Pierre.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2014-02-25 21:23 GMT+01:00 Cyrille Henry
>> mailto:c...@chnry.net>>:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Le 25/02/2014 21:03, Roman Haefeli a écrit :
>> >>
>> >>> On Die, 2014-02-25 at 19:50 +0100, Pierre Massat
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>  I have installed Pd-extended from the Ubuntu
>> repos. It seems to be the
>>  same version as the on

[PD] pix_buffer loaded event

[Martin Eckart]

Hi all,

I'm loading a series of images into a pix_buffer using folder_list and
[open( messages.  I would then like to send a bang event once all the
images are loaded.

1) Is there a way to find out when pix_buffer has finished loading an
image?  Maybe pix_buffer_write has something?
2) Is there a way to know when folder_list has finished outputting all the
files?

This seemingly easy problem has me scratching my head.  The best workaround
I can think of at the moment is to just build in a long enough delay before
triggering the finished event but that feels like  a dirty hack.

Thoughts?

-martin
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[PD] libpd and Unity

[Varun Nair]

Hi all,

I extended Patrick Sebastien's work in libpd-4-unity on Windows and now 
have it working on OSX and Android. iOS is pending but will happen soon. 
The whole API hasn't been tested, but basic functionality is in place 
and works.


More info here . Feedback 
and bug reports are welcome!


Best,
Varun

--
@ntkeep 
re-sounding.com 
designingsound.org 

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Re: [PD] Bugs in Pd-Extended in Ubuntu LTS

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Have you tested pd-l2ork?

 

From: Pierre Massat [mailto:pimas...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 3:03 PM
To: Ivica Bukvic; pd-list
Cc: Cyrille Henry; katja
Subject: Re: [PD] Bugs in Pd-Extended in Ubuntu LTS

 

Hi,

Just a quick follow up on this topic. I have just compiled Miller's latest
version (0.45-4), and the bug that's crashing X is still there. This time I
managed to reproduce it somehow by creating an empty object to make a
subpatch and typing "pd m" (and bang it crashed). Same behaviour with the
same patch in pd-extended 0.43.4.

It's super annoying...

Cheers,

Pierre.

 

2014-02-25 23:16 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic :

Once pd-extended removes unnecessary dependency on pd-utils you will. Until
then you will need to uninstall one and install the other.

On Feb 25, 2014 4:54 PM, "Pierre Massat"  wrote:

Hi,

Katja, I will try to check if this is a problem with pulse audio. I also
have a jackdbus running even when applications supposed to use it are closed
(Ardour and Pd in my case).

Can I install pd-l2ork alongside pd-extended, or do I have to uninstall it
first ?

Pierre.

 

2014-02-25 22:22 GMT+01:00 Ivica Bukvic :

Guys, Can you check if pd-l2ork works OK and please report? We provide
native Ubuntu builds (built for 12.04).

On Feb 25, 2014 4:20 PM, "katja"  wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I'm on Xubuntu 12.04 with Pd-extended 0.44 and have experienced big
troubles with Jack too. I only use Jack for complex routings like
Skype to Pd or Kdenlive to Pd via PulseAudio+Jack. I got a lot of
jackdbus-errors initially, and jack wouldn't restart. Don't know if
it's the same issue which you're experiencing. Anyway, it seems that
this was about jackd2 writing config files to different places, which
can be out of sync under certain conditions. Not sure if this is a
correct description but it is my interpretation. Looking at running
processes in command htop, I always noticed a jackdbus processing
still running when the dbus error was given. Killing the jackdbus
process sometimes helped. But in the course of time I've somehow
learned how to avoid it at all, by carefully considering the right
order of operations when starting processes. I have PulseAudio
disabled by default, so I can start Jack first, then the Jack clients,
of which PulseAudio may be one. Then eventually the PulseAudio
clients. When killing processes, everything in reverse order. I don't
like this hocus pocus, but well, I'm happy if it works at all. On
Kubuntu I couldn't get PulseAudio to cooperate with Jack.

Katja

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Pierre Massat  wrote:
> I just checked again and to to sum up I have three problems :
> - errors with JACK (and instability),
> - X crashes sometimes when typing stuff in an object box,
> - and Alsa throwing this error in the console : "ALSA output error
(restart
> failed): Broken pipe" (though the sound does work).
>
> Pierre.
>
>
> 2014-02-25 21:23 GMT+01:00 Cyrille Henry :
>
>>
>>
>> Le 25/02/2014 21:03, Roman Haefeli a écrit :
>>
>>> On Die, 2014-02-25 at 19:50 +0100, Pierre Massat wrote:
>>>
>>>
 I have installed Pd-extended from the Ubuntu repos. It seems to be the
 same version as the one available on puredata.info (0.43.4).
>>>
>>>
>>> I am pretty sure there is no package called 'pd-extended' in the Ubuntu
>>> repositories. Probably you got it from Hans' ppa or from
>>> apt.puredata.info?
>>>
>>> Also, is your Ubuntu 12.04 up-to-date? Your bug description sounds like
>>> an intel driver bug in 13.04 or 13.10 that has been discussed a lot on
>>> this list. I thought this bug has been fixed for quite a while.
>>
>> i still have some problem. (i'm on 13.10). X can crash specially if i
have
>> object that are not created on the patch.
>> c
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Roman
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
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[PD] PdParty: name change ideas?

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

I will begin the process for releasing PdParty on the iOS App Store pretty 
soon. I was thinking that if I ever want to change the name, I need to do it 
now. When I started, PdParty was mainly a port of PdDroidParty. Now, it's 
become something more and I'm thinking of a new name for a different identity. 
Don't get me wrong, PdParty is already a pretty good name and I may keep it, 
but I'd like to brainstorm anyway.

Any suggestions?


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com





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Re: [PD] PdParty: name change ideas?

[Richie Cyngler]

I dislike the "i" prefix in general but it does seem pretty appropriate in
this context so,
(i)P(a)d
or
iPd

I prefer
Pd Touch
for simplicity


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> I will begin the process for releasing PdParty on the iOS App Store pretty
> soon. I was thinking that if I ever want to change the name, I need to do
> it now. When I started, PdParty was mainly a port of PdDroidParty. Now,
> it's become something more and I'm thinking of a new name for a different
> identity. Don't get me wrong, PdParty is already a pretty good name and I
> may keep it, but I'd like to brainstorm anyway.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


-- 
Richie

www.glitchpop.com
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