Re: [PD] using pd live (sans computer/laptop/raspberry pi)
Hi, Just one thing about the output. I personnaly use an impedance matching transformer between my soundcard's balanced output and my guitar amp, as explained on this page ( http://guitarextended.wordpress.com/2011/12/07/guitar-and-amplifier/). I made a difference in terms of level and perceived signal to noise ratio. Cheers, Pierre. 2014-03-15 6:26 GMT+01:00 Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com: On 15/03/14 09:56, Charles Z Henry wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Jonathan Wilkesjancs...@yahoo.com wrote: On 03/14/2014 03:44 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote: Without a computer, no. Without a desktop or laptop computer, yes. Well, maybe we could design and manufacture an enormous ASIC that runs libpd. -Jonathan I appreciate the spirit of that... but man, that would be one intimidating project. oh to have an infinite number of monkeys programming FPGAs ... hence the attraction of building on and adding to open source projects, or falling back on hardware that is at least open, programmable and accessible down to some level. These things are to big to do alone on most scales. Simon ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal. no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-) On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar - effects - amp latencies are already closer to 20ms. Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises. On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hi dan, tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? thanks again simon On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com wrote: Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that onward to mars patch is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock ja...@jamiebullock.com wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. All best, Jamie On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Heres a trim of my notes: Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 25 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 /etc/security/limits.conf' I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio): echo autospawn=no ~/.pulse/client.conf Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: # kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -k I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 Use pd -listdev to get the device list from alsa. I chose 5 as the first 4 (from memory) are 1-2 (built in hardware plugin) 2-3 (HDMI audio hardware plugin). 5 is the USB hardware alsa dev. On Mar 11, 2014, at 4:05 AM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: without jack i should add... On 11 Mar 2014, at 08:55, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hey dan, unfortunately i’m in switzerland :-) would be great if you could post your setup somewhere or send the infos! i compiled pd from source as well. i start it from console (with -rt) and it works without problems with the builtin sound card. maybe the cheap
Re: [PD] using pd live (sans computer/laptop/raspberry pi)
Le 14/03/2014 22:29, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : On 03/14/2014 03:44 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote: Without a computer, no. Without a desktop or laptop computer, yes. Well, maybe we could design and manufacture an enormous ASIC that runs libpd. sukandar kartadinata made somthing like this 10 year ago. but it was just a prototype and switch to SBC for cost and facility. cheers c -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency for years. How is 10-15 ms not real time? It's not even really perceivable unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack decay stuff. At least as far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian UDOO image next. That might give us some room. Also, I know my notes would not be easy to follow for a beginner ... I only wrote them for myself and haven't edited them. enohp ym morf tnes -- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal. no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-) On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar - effects - amp latencies are already closer to 20ms. Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises. On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hi dan, tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? thanks again simon On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com wrote: Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that onward to mars patch is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock ja...@jamiebullock.com wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. All best, Jamie On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Heres a trim of my notes: Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 25 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 /etc/security/limits.conf' I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio): echo autospawn=no ~/.pulse/client.conf Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: # kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -k I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: pd -rt
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms. The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms. Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms. Sorry for being unscientific about it. enohp ym morf tnes -- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal. no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-) On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar - effects - amp latencies are already closer to 20ms. Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises. On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hi dan, tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? thanks again simon On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com wrote: Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that onward to mars patch is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock ja...@jamiebullock.com wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. All best, Jamie On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Heres a trim of my notes: Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 25 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 /etc/security/limits.conf' I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson/2012/07/13/top-five-wrong-ways-to-fix-your-audio): echo autospawn=no ~/.pulse/client.conf Also add the following to ~/.bash_login to kill pulse audio if it's running on login: # kill pulse audio if it was spawned pulseaudio -k I'm not looking at the udoo run script, but I'm pretty sure I'm using the following with the US-25EX USB soudcard: pd -rt -nogui -alsa -audiodev 5 Use pd -listdev to get the device
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
Dan Wilcox wrote: Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms. No, it's the amp to ear, related to speed of sound in atmosphere (around 300m/s). The electric signal in your guitar cable goes way faster. In modern sound gear (such as the Yamaha 01V sound board), you can volontarily add latency to outputs, so that the audience receives the sound waves from distant loudspeakers at the same time. This comes handy when the subwoofers are under the seats of the audience (2 meters away from audience), and the others loudspeakers are farther away. Sorry for being unscientific about it. Who cares that the figures does not back you, if you feel good and it sounds greats :) ? Cheers, -- Charles ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables
hey roman, thanks for that! I noticed though, is there a reason why it works on 0.45.3 and not 0.43.4-extended? I could not tell off hand m On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com wrote: (I believe this might rather belong to pd-list instead of pd-dev) On Don, 2014-03-06 at 18:56 -0500, me.grimm wrote: Roman, wrapping points. The only drawback compared to [phasor~] is that the latter allows to control the frequency with a signal and the [metro]/[vline~] based phasor obviously doesn't. I never did quite figure it out but how do you do more advanced things with [vline~] such as updating/increasing ramp speed mid ramp? Frankly, I often find myself struggling with those kinds of problems. I'll be glad to help you build the [phasor~] replacement that has an additional bang outlet, if you need it. Are you saying this is possible with just metro/vline~ combo? I would be curious what that looks like if you did build it It wasn't as easy as I initially expected it to be. I already had a [metro]-like abstraction that can do intra-interval tempo changes. However, I figured it was buggy (it worked only for the first tempo change within an interval) and had to redo it. That was the most difficult part. Combining it with [vline~ ] to make a [vphasor~ ] with extra bangs at each wrapping point wasn't as hard (at least not with its current limitations). Check attachment. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megr...@gmail.com _ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
hmm, well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-) thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this. cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms. The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms. Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms. Sorry for being unscientific about it. enohp ym morf tnes -- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal. no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-) On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar - effects - amp latencies are already closer to 20ms. Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises. On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hi dan, tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? thanks again simon On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com wrote: Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that onward to mars patch is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock ja...@jamiebullock.com wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. All best, Jamie On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Heres a trim of my notes: Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 25 /etc/security/limits.conf' sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 /etc/security/limits.conf' I disable pulseaudio. Make sure pulseaudio does not respawn itself (from
Re: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables
On Sam, 2014-03-15 at 09:43 -0400, me.grimm wrote: I noticed though, is there a reason why it works on 0.45.3 and not 0.43.4-extended? Oh, yes. You're right. I got confused, because the equation to determine the current intra-step position for [vmetro] (now [rh_metro]) was assuming Hz and s, but most Pd classes expect ms. That is why I used a new feature introduced in 0.45 that lets you define your own timing unit for most timing related classes. I forget to reverse that when it finally worked. I worked some more on [rh_metro], fixed some bugs (re-entrency did cause Pd to hang) and put it on github.com. You'll find a slightly updated [rh_phasor~ ], which still uses [rh_metro] internally, here: https://github.com/reduzent/netpd2-patches Enjoy! Roman On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com wrote: (I believe this might rather belong to pd-list instead of pd-dev) On Don, 2014-03-06 at 18:56 -0500, me.grimm wrote: Roman, wrapping points. The only drawback compared to [phasor~] is that the latter allows to control the frequency with a signal and the [metro]/[vline~] based phasor obviously doesn't. I never did quite figure it out but how do you do more advanced things with [vline~] such as updating/increasing ramp speed mid ramp? Frankly, I often find myself struggling with those kinds of problems. I'll be glad to help you build the [phasor~] replacement that has an additional bang outlet, if you need it. Are you saying this is possible with just metro/vline~ combo? I would be curious what that looks like if you did build it It wasn't as easy as I initially expected it to be. I already had a [metro]-like abstraction that can do intra-interval tempo changes. However, I figured it was buggy (it worked only for the first tempo change within an interval) and had to redo it. That was the most difficult part. Combining it with [vline~ ] to make a [vphasor~ ] with extra bangs at each wrapping point wasn't as hard (at least not with its current limitations). Check attachment. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megr...@gmail.com _ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
Yeah, I wanted to use the hard float image but I was under time pressure and more things seemed to work out of the box with the Linaro one. I'll have more time to revisit it later. On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hmm, well to me 12ms is way to much. but then again i play a lot of fast attack notes in up-tempo pieces :-) thanks for your notes anyway, they helped a lot! and write back when you tried with the debian hardfloat image. i tried it for a short time and it was not very stable with pd. but then again i did not try a lot of things to fix this. cheers On 15 Mar 2014, at 13:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Check this page: http://www.michalkaszczyszyn.com/en/tutorials/latency.html#acceptable I was wrong, the guitar to amp latency at 1 meter away is roughly 3 ms. The accumulation of a monitors and an effect or two gets you to 8ms. Acceptable latency is 12 ms. Again, I haven't measured my rig or the latency of my old wearable rig, both both were responsive to me, so they must e at least around 12 ms. Sorry for being unscientific about it. enohp ym morf tnes -- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: dan, no 15 ms is in no way tolerable for live use (if you have effects that should react in realtime) it is of course ok for delay and reverb stuff. the latency from an amp because of cable length and stuff is totally different, since your ear actually hears where the sound comes from and can adapt. but for studio use for example, 15 ms on a headphone is really two attacks for evey attack. heck even 10ms is evil :-) of course your/anyones mileage may vary. but i only wanted the box to output delay and reverb soundscape stuff away, so i might be good. i will add analog circuitry that mixes the dry and effect part of the signal, so i get no (very very little) latency on the unaffected part of the signal. no worries as far as the script goes. i had no problems at all to follow it. but i worked with linux a lot before. i was just suggesting, that the typical ubuntu user would not get some of the steps in between your steps :-) On 15 Mar 2014, at 02:10, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't run any latency tests, so that might be what I'm getting. If so, it's acceptable for what I do. From what I've read, guitar - effects - amp latencies are already closer to 20ms. Sorry I haven't gotten back to the UDOO and pulled the relevant scripts etc off of it yet. I'm trying to get a few things done before I head out of town for work the next 2 weeks. I might be abel to get to it Sunday, but no promises. On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:41 PM, Simon Iten itensi...@gmail.com wrote: hi dan, tried your setup/instructions. thanks, it now works down to 15ms. at 12ms i start to get clicks here and there… your script has some “errors” (missing instructions a novice would not understand how to deal with). do you want me to post them, or do you overdo it anyway? thanks again simon On 13 Mar 2014, at 05:21, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I was just waiting to redo my website, edit the video, put the pics together, etc etc but life and freelance work get in the way. Man, I could use a clone right about now :P On Mar 13, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Richie Cyngler glitch...@gmail.com wrote: Also interested in the UDOO setup instructions so thank you. A bit OT but, Dan, love your work (that onward to mars patch is awesome) thanks for the links. I think people should post more of this sort of thing to the list, celebrate what we make. =) On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW: here's a picture of my UDOO setup inside my Mars space suit backpack: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/13115604285/ Media of the backpack in use https://twitter.com/danomatika/status/433273394122207232/photo/1 https://vimeo.com/86670103 (not my video, I'll put out a different edit soon) On Mar 12, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: I will do that later tonight when I boot the udoo and pull my run scripts off of it. I'll post everything to GitHub so we can share resources. On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:44 AM, Jamie Bullock ja...@jamiebullock.com wrote: Hi Dan, Thanks for sharing these notes. They arrived in my inbox to coincide nicely with the delivery of my quad Udoo this morning! It would be great to see a full writeup of your Udoo setup at some point as I think many people will want to be doing a similar thing. All best, Jamie On 11 Mar 2014, at 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com wrote: Heres a trim of my notes: Enable realtime audio priority (if you haven't done it already): sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 /etc/security/limits.conf'
Re: [PD] udoo board sound issues
On 15/03/14 23:03, Dan Wilcox wrote: I guess I don't get that since I've been playing that relative latency for years. How is 10-15 ms not real time? It's not even really perceivable unless you're doing lots of high rate short attack decay stuff. At least as far as I can tell. I must be slow. :D Then again, I might be wrong. I'll probably try the hard float Debian UDOO image next. That might give us some room. Musicians in orchestras have been playing with, dealing with, much longer latencies for centuries. An orchestra cannot all be within a metre or so of each other, they are 10s of metres apart, and that is on top of the different set of differences in distance to the audience. In a pit in an opera or ballet it gets much worse. Any modern PA adds substantial latencies to achieve a good sound in the audience, and mostly use mics and foldback in other kinds of performances, and make the musicians life easier by avoiding the natural latency issues of an acoustic performance. Organ players have dealt with huge latencies for as long as there have been big pipe organs. Percussionists using real instruments don't get the attack from their instruments till well after they initiate the note by starting to move their stick toward the cymbal. Wood and metal instruments all have considerable latencies, some much more than others, it is all part of playing that particular instrument. Electric guitar players rely on the latency between amp and pickup (this time only a few milliseconds) for their sound. Any digital instrument also has latencies. Basically it is a matter of playing the instrument you are using. Simon ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
