Re: [PD] file format for GEM
I am using pix_film to play back the files, do I need to use another object? I ask because when I send the messages auto -1, 1 or 2 into the first inlet, the playback is always the same (1), and if I send auto .5, it turns off (as with 0). On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:45 PM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: A laptop drive will probably not play more than two HD ProRes files at once. An external Firewire or USB drive might help if half the clips are on it and the other half on the internal. Auto can play at any speed forward or backward: try 'rate -1' or 'rate 1.5' etc. That sets the Quicktime clock for playback to that rate. It's more efficient to let QT do the tasking internally. You can select the starting frame of playback using the frame number into the second inlet. On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: I am not using the auto message because I often want to play the files backwards or only play a certain part of them. Unless there is a variant of auto for this? When I use the patch for a performance it will be on a laptop, which I am not certain will have multiple hard drives. Would a solid state drive definitely fix my problem? Otherwise, I suppose I will be stuck with a lower resolution for the videos. -Stephan On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 7:22 PM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.comwrote: Are you using 'auto 1' to play the files? That uses Quicktime to determine the current position which is more efficient than sending a frame number. You may also want to try 'frame 60' into the gemwin with the auto message for smoother looking output. That basically syncs the render output with the screen and 'auto 1' only loads a new frame at the rate of the file. Those CPU figures seem about right. The ProRes HQ files are probably much larger on disk than the AIC files, so the extra CPU time might be waiting for the disk. That might also be why the AIC files spike at certain points because the drive is working more. Disk speed is an important factor here: I would spread the files over multiple drives if possible. Obviously, SSD is a good option too. Chris On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: So, I added the -nomidi -noaudio and -nrt commands as instructed by Mr. Clepper. This seems to help stop lag in Pure Data itself (so cues are executed punctually) when using HD-files. However, I then converted my files to 1920 x 1080 at 100% using the prores 422 (HQ) codec. The CPU load still climbs to into the 80s and 90s (even over 100 once) with two videos and into the 120s-160s with three. Oddly, with the Intermediary Codec, the load is sometimes much lower (in the 50s for two files) but sharply climbs at other moments (higher than with the pro-res codecs). -Stephan On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Peter Venus n...@petervenus.dewrote: Hello! i did not know, that you wanted to playback HD-material. with HD material, i notice problems as well, also with the mjpeg codec. anyone having experience with fullHD and other codecs? under OSX i found, that apples ProRes 422 codec works best for that matter. The only thing being, that its comes with final cut. right now, i am running a show, where i use mjpeg in 720p resolution with no problems for simultaneous playback of 3 videos. cheers, peter Am 01.03.13 21:39, schrieb Stephan Elliot Perez: So, I reduced the resolution of the files from 1920 x 1080 to 800 x 450 with the Apple Photo -Jpeg codec and now I have no lag. The loss in quality is of course noticable, but tolerable... Thanks again for you help, Stephan On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:13 AM, n...@petervenus.de wrote: Hello! what video codec are you using? in my experience, a big issue when playing back video with gem, comes from the codecs and container, resulting in extreme differences in cpu-load. i found, that mov-container work way better than avi-container, even though the same codec is used and packed in the container. try converting your videos to a motion-jpeg codec packed in a quicktime-mov. you could use mpeg-streamclip [1] for that purpose on win /mac machines or ffmpeg on linux. [1] http://www.squared5.com/ free tool for video conversion regards, peter *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2013 um 23:55 Uhr *Von:* Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherworld** @gmail.com dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com *An:* Cyrille Henry c...@chnry.net *Cc:* pd-list@iem.at *Betreff:* Re: [PD] file format for GEM A more urgent problem: Although the CPU usage stays under 100 (peak is around 84 with three videos overlapping), there is a substantial amount of lag. If I turn off video processing, a command that should be executed after 30 seconds via the cue list is executed punctually. If I turn it on, the command is 11 seconds late. I can
Re: [PD] file format for GEM
So, I reduced the resolution of the files from 1920 x 1080 to 800 x 450 with the Apple Photo -Jpeg codec and now I have no lag. The loss in quality is of course noticable, but tolerable... Thanks again for you help, Stephan On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:13 AM, n...@petervenus.de wrote: Hello! what video codec are you using? in my experience, a big issue when playing back video with gem, comes from the codecs and container, resulting in extreme differences in cpu-load. i found, that mov-container work way better than avi-container, even though the same codec is used and packed in the container. try converting your videos to a motion-jpeg codec packed in a quicktime-mov. you could use mpeg-streamclip [1] for that purpose on win /mac machines or ffmpeg on linux. [1] http://www.squared5.com/ free tool for video conversion regards, peter *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2013 um 23:55 Uhr *Von:* Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com *An:* Cyrille Henry c...@chnry.net *Cc:* pd-list@iem.at *Betreff:* Re: [PD] file format for GEM A more urgent problem: Although the CPU usage stays under 100 (peak is around 84 with three videos overlapping), there is a substantial amount of lag. If I turn off video processing, a command that should be executed after 30 seconds via the cue list is executed punctually. If I turn it on, the command is 11 seconds late. I can attach the patch if you like, but I probably will not be able to send the video clips as one attachment. Best regards, Stephan On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: What is a shader, and how do I use it? On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Cyrille Henry c...@chnry.net wrote: Le 27/02/2013 19:17, Stephan Elliot Perez a écrit : Thanks, it works now. For some reason, turning auto on and off (with pix_film) causes the video to lag temporarily, but I do not have this problem if I use line-objects to go through the frames. The cpu-usage goes above 100 if I have more than two videos playing at once, but I suppose I don't need more than two for this project... Also, what can I do if I want an additive blend instead of a normal cross-blend? i would use a shader for this. it offer great flexibility, even if it's a bit harder to begin with. but that's the way openGL wants you to do now. cheers c On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Cyrille Henry c...@chnry.net mailto: c...@chnry.net wrote: hello, Gem is mostly design to work on the GPU, and not on the CPU. GPU have hundreds of core, they are faster than CPU for image manipulations. pix_add come from the 20th century and should now be avoid since it use cpu not gpu ;-) in order to make a fade transition between 2 videos, you can use transparency on one video. add a [alpha] object after Gemhead, and send number between 0 and 1 in the last inlet of the colorRGB object to make the video appear / disapear. cheers c Le 26/02/2013 21:33, Stephan Elliot Perez a écrit : Hello, So, looking at the help file for [pd~], it seems to be primarily for audio. How can I use multiple cores to work purely with GEM? I am trying to have a simple transition between video clips, but if I have two instances of pix_film and then connect them to pix_add, the CPU-ussage skyrockets well above 100... is there a more efficient object for blending two video clips? Best regards, Stephan On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Thomas Mayer tho...@residuum.org mailto:tho...@residuum.org mailto: tho...@residuum.org mailto:tho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, On 03.02.2013 22:48, Stephan Elliot Perez wrote: I am talking about PD's CPU meter. I don't have the impression that PD takes full advantage of 2 quad-core processors. When processing audio, anything over 100 in PD's meter will lead to glitched audio. I am just wondering if it will be much more when I load other videos and transition between them. Pd will only use one core, and one core for the GUI. There are ways to distribute the load over several cores, e.g. [pd~] or use several instances of Pd that communicate with each others: http://www.mail-archive.com/__**pd-list@iem.at/msg33319.htmlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/__pd-list@iem.at/msg33319.html http://www.mail-archive.com/**pd-list@iem.at/msg33319.htmlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/pd-list@iem.at/msg33319.html Hth, Thomas -- Spielen Sie Strip Schnipp-Schnapp? (Adam Weishaupt to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe in: Robert Shea Robert A. Wilson, The Golden Apple) http://www.residuum.org
Re: [PD] file format for GEM
Hello, So, looking at the help file for [pd~], it seems to be primarily for audio. How can I use multiple cores to work purely with GEM? I am trying to have a simple transition between video clips, but if I have two instances of pix_film and then connect them to pix_add, the CPU-ussage skyrockets well above 100... is there a more efficient object for blending two video clips? Best regards, Stephan On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Thomas Mayer tho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, On 03.02.2013 22:48, Stephan Elliot Perez wrote: I am talking about PD's CPU meter. I don't have the impression that PD takes full advantage of 2 quad-core processors. When processing audio, anything over 100 in PD's meter will lead to glitched audio. I am just wondering if it will be much more when I load other videos and transition between them. Pd will only use one core, and one core for the GUI. There are ways to distribute the load over several cores, e.g. [pd~] or use several instances of Pd that communicate with each others: http://www.mail-archive.com/pd-list@iem.at/msg33319.html Hth, Thomas -- Spielen Sie Strip Schnipp-Schnapp? (Adam Weishaupt to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe in: Robert Shea Robert A. Wilson, The Golden Apple) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [helmholtz~]
[helmholtz~] is probably more accurate and will show you all of the pitch fluctuations live. [sigmund~] with the argument notes is probably preferable, if you only want one simple value per note. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:24 AM, Phil Stone pkst...@ucdavis.edu wrote: Hi Katja, I'm looking with great interest at your [helmholtz~] pitch tracking object. I'm not asking to be lazy (I'm going to try it out for myself!), but I'm wondering if you have any general impressions of its performance as to how it compares with [sigmund~]. I'm particularly interested as to how it will do for tracking a fretless electric bass. It looks like an excellent piece of work, and I've enjoyed reading your detailed page about it. Phil Stone __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/** listinfo/pd-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Fwd: Fwd: file format for GEM
-- Forwarded message -- From: Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com Date: Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Fwd: file format for GEM To: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at Hi again, I have tried converting to .mov with the photo-jpeg and motion-jpeg codecs, but each time, whether it be with MPEG-Streamclip or Adobe Premiere, the conversion fails near the end. I thought that perhaps there might be be a limit to the space allowed to me on the school's computer, but I find that unlikely... So I still have the problem with some clips (and only with a few) that they are very laggy when played back as .mov files. In Adobe Premiere in the .mts format (AVCHD), this was not a problem. Then I converted them using the Apple Intermediary Codec. Does someone know the cause of this? Thanks, Stephan On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-02-04 22:29, Stephan Elliot Perez wrote: But with photo-jpeg, some of the files were getting to be over 20 GB. D= 20GB shouldn't be a big deal with todays harddisks. if you care for speed, you might even want to get a (not so cheap) SSD disk that holds all your videos. fgamsdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEQvw8ACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQrDwCcCnEoxQ4fWf5uitScHevieKWC imYAni54KqBLg0NcVVc89vgaLBz68xXA =VI7H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] file format for GEM
Hahah, I did not mean it as a tip. I was complaining about the file size. As I said, the Apple Intermediary Codec works. However, at some random points in the videos (and only in a few files), the playback becomes very laggy. This applies in any Player, not just GEM. On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:28 PM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: The M is for 'Motion' and uses two fields per frame, so it is interlaced. On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:18 PM, me.grimm megr...@gmail.com wrote: Also, I selected JPEG-Photo using the program MPEGStreamclip at %100 this actually worked pretty decent. thanks for the tip! I assume JPEG-Photo is MJPEG: The video file gets so large, because you might someone know: what is the difference between photo-jpeg and motion-jpeg? i am assuming from reading around the web that they are the same thing... but maybe not? m On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Thomas Mayer tho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, please respond to the list, as others may help in answering your follow-up questions, and / or may benefit from the conversation.0 On 03.02.2013 21:49, Stephan Elliot Perez wrote: Thanks. I have no idea what a bash script is or what to do with it, but I will read through the thread... If you use Linux or Mac OS X, bash is usually installed on your system. It is a command line interface and can be used for scripting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_%28Unix_shell%29) This particular script is nothing fancy, and I have made it mostly to remind the parameters for mencoder. Also, I selected JPEG-Photo using the program MPEGStreamclip at %100 quality and it produces quite a large file. With auto, the CPU goes over 90, but if I drag up or down on the framerate's number box, it stays at around 30-40... I assume JPEG-Photo is MJPEG: The video file gets so large, because you store a JPEG for each frame instead of full image for keyframes only and then changes for subsequent frames as do other video codecs (rough explanation). [pix_film] can then read each frame as a JPEG and does not need to find the last keyframe and apply the changes to it, so playback should be possible with lower CPU usage. Please tell us some information about your system, i.e. CPU, graphic card, operating system etc., maybe someone with a similar setup can respond with further advice for optimisation. Hth, Thomas -- Chaney was aware that anything, however small, can get the eye of the media if it's repulsive enough. (Robert Anton Wilson - The Universe Next Door) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megr...@gmail.com _ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Fwd: file format for GEM
-- Forwarded message -- From: Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com Date: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [PD] file format for GEM To: J Oliver jaime.oliv...@gmail.com I have divided things into clips I want to use in GEM. So for now, I am putting laggy clips aside. If I have this problem with one that I find indispensable (I have some redundant material), I will probably try another codec. But with photo-jpeg, some of the files were getting to be over 20 GB. D= On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:26 PM, J Oliver jaime.oliv...@gmail.com wrote: As I said, the Apple Intermediary Codec works. However, at some random points in the videos (and only in a few files), the playback becomes very laggy. This applies in any Player, not just GEM. I've had this problem. How do you deal with audio sync in these cases? J On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:28 PM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: The M is for 'Motion' and uses two fields per frame, so it is interlaced. On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:18 PM, me.grimm megr...@gmail.com wrote: Also, I selected JPEG-Photo using the program MPEGStreamclip at %100 this actually worked pretty decent. thanks for the tip! I assume JPEG-Photo is MJPEG: The video file gets so large, because you might someone know: what is the difference between photo-jpeg and motion-jpeg? i am assuming from reading around the web that they are the same thing... but maybe not? m On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Thomas Mayer tho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, please respond to the list, as others may help in answering your follow-up questions, and / or may benefit from the conversation.0 On 03.02.2013 21:49, Stephan Elliot Perez wrote: Thanks. I have no idea what a bash script is or what to do with it, but I will read through the thread... If you use Linux or Mac OS X, bash is usually installed on your system. It is a command line interface and can be used for scripting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_%28Unix_shell%29) This particular script is nothing fancy, and I have made it mostly to remind the parameters for mencoder. Also, I selected JPEG-Photo using the program MPEGStreamclip at %100 quality and it produces quite a large file. With auto, the CPU goes over 90, but if I drag up or down on the framerate's number box, it stays at around 30-40... I assume JPEG-Photo is MJPEG: The video file gets so large, because you store a JPEG for each frame instead of full image for keyframes only and then changes for subsequent frames as do other video codecs (rough explanation). [pix_film] can then read each frame as a JPEG and does not need to find the last keyframe and apply the changes to it, so playback should be possible with lower CPU usage. Please tell us some information about your system, i.e. CPU, graphic card, operating system etc., maybe someone with a similar setup can respond with further advice for optimisation. Hth, Thomas -- Chaney was aware that anything, however small, can get the eye of the media if it's repulsive enough. (Robert Anton Wilson - The Universe Next Door) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megr...@gmail.com _ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] file format for GEM
Greetings, I am just starting to use GEM and am having a problem with video playback using pix_film. The CPU goes through the roof and the video naturally lags. My original video clips were in .MTS (panasonic, 1920 x 1080) format. I then converted them into .mp4 (Codecs: H.264, AAC) using Handbrake and then into .mov (Codecs: MPEG-4 Video) using MPEGstream. Are the codecs the problem or the video quality/file size the problem? What do you suggest I do? Best regards, Stephan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] file format for GEM
OS: Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5 Processor: 2 x 2,8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon Ram: 6 GB 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256 MB On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Thomas Mayer tho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, please respond to the list, as others may help in answering your follow-up questions, and / or may benefit from the conversation.0 On 03.02.2013 21:49, Stephan Elliot Perez wrote: Thanks. I have no idea what a bash script is or what to do with it, but I will read through the thread... If you use Linux or Mac OS X, bash is usually installed on your system. It is a command line interface and can be used for scripting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_%28Unix_shell%29) This particular script is nothing fancy, and I have made it mostly to remind the parameters for mencoder. Also, I selected JPEG-Photo using the program MPEGStreamclip at %100 quality and it produces quite a large file. With auto, the CPU goes over 90, but if I drag up or down on the framerate's number box, it stays at around 30-40... I assume JPEG-Photo is MJPEG: The video file gets so large, because you store a JPEG for each frame instead of full image for keyframes only and then changes for subsequent frames as do other video codecs (rough explanation). [pix_film] can then read each frame as a JPEG and does not need to find the last keyframe and apply the changes to it, so playback should be possible with lower CPU usage. Please tell us some information about your system, i.e. CPU, graphic card, operating system etc., maybe someone with a similar setup can respond with further advice for optimisation. Hth, Thomas -- Chaney was aware that anything, however small, can get the eye of the media if it's repulsive enough. (Robert Anton Wilson - The Universe Next Door) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] file format for GEM
I tried it with Apple Intermediate Codec, as Mr. Clepper suggested, and it runs smoothly now. CPU use is about 34 in auto-read. Is that about right for my system? On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Charles Goyard c...@fsck.fr wrote: Thomas Mayer wrote: https://github.com/residuum/Bash-Scripts/blob/master/mencmjpeg Usage: ./mencmjpeg original_video new_video Or: ./mencmjpeg original_video I noticed mencoder occasionaly produce bad frames if the input file is malformed (Premiere seems to suck at exporting), so I switched to ffmpeg+mjpegtools: for example: ffmpeg -loglevel quiet -y -i INPUTFILE -r 25 -f yuv4mpegpipe - | yuv2lav -v0 -b 2000 -q 90 -o OUTPUTFILE.avi Cheers, -- Charles ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] backwards ead~
Greetings, Well, I used two [vline~] objects and it works fine, but only when I set the right input one of the one [expr~] to 0 and the other to 1, which both lead to division through 0 and the corresponding error message. I believe you mentioned this problem, Mr. Farnell, regarding your own patches. To what complications does this problem lead? Does anyone know how I could modify the equation to be rid of it? Why does the patch nonetheless work? Many thanks, Stephan On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.ukwrote: [vline~] is versatile :) It can be used to solve many problems with envelopes. Also, don't be scared to use two vlines if it makes the problem easier to understand, their good time accuracy ensures they will do what you expect most times. On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 01:22:34 +0200 Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your response. I tried to apply the branching principal using the equation from the [exact-ead~] by having the envelope go to 1 and then to 2 instead of 0, using min 1 and max 1 to create a branch, using an expression to convert the ascending numbers over 1 into descending numbers under 1, and then jumping to 0. I think the problem is that, during the switches, two 1s are sent at the same time, leading to a 2 (as seen in the graph), where I actually need a 0... -Stephan On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.ukwrote: You might be able to easily get that behaviour by quickly editing the example I gave you. The maths is really geometry. There are a few things that can be done as time domain transforms when thinking about envelopes and suchlike in this way. 1) Flip it around zero with [*~ -1] 2) Invert arithmetically wrt 1.0 using [sig~ 1][-~] 3) Get the [min~] or the [max~] wrt another value 4) Clamp at a value using [clip~] ... is special case of (3) 5) Shift by an amount using [-~] or [+~] 6) Scale by some factor with [*~] IIRC the idiom for a two stage envelope like that is to use [min~]/[max~] to create a split point and treat each of the two branches differently (you can do piecewise waveform construction the same way). If you want time symmetry then have the [vline~] go to 1.0 and back to [0.0] and just use one of the branches. On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:45:55 +0200 Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, Thank you for your responses. I tried your suggestion, hardoff, and the result is the attached [ead-reverse~]. Unfortunately, the expression behaves differently with this [vline~]-construction as with the [phasor~]. Here, if 1 is entered into the right input of [expr~], the result is an envelope whose steepness becomes exponentially smaller while ascending and exponentially greater while descending (if near 0, the opposite form is produced and values between 1 and 0 produce a divided, confused form). I however wish to produce an envelope that becomes exponentially steeper both ascending and descending. My problem with this [expr~] as well as with Mr. Farnell's patches is that I do not quite understand the math behind them. Any ideas? Best regards, Stephan Elliot Perez On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:54 PM, hard off hard@gmail.com wrote: instead of the [phaser~], send a [line~] (or [vline~]) signal. for example: [1, 0.5 500, 0 1000 500( | [vline~] like most of my patches, i don't think i originally made that one, someone else posted it, and i just copied. ;) must have been a long time ago though, cos i barely remember it. On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, I wish to produce a wave form with the opposite form of the normal ead~ wave (the curves become exponentially steeper instead of flatter), which I can achieve by entering a negative number into the phasor in hard off's exact-ead~ patch, which I downloaded from the archive. However, I still want to be able to independently change the length of the ascent, decline, and distance between waves as is possible with ead~. Does anyone know how I could do this, or possibly have access to an abstraction-version of ead~? Best regards, Stephan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
Re: [PD] backwards ead~
Thanks for your response. I tried to apply the branching principal using the equation from the [exact-ead~] by having the envelope go to 1 and then to 2 instead of 0, using min 1 and max 1 to create a branch, using an expression to convert the ascending numbers over 1 into descending numbers under 1, and then jumping to 0. I think the problem is that, during the switches, two 1s are sent at the same time, leading to a 2 (as seen in the graph), where I actually need a 0... -Stephan On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.ukwrote: You might be able to easily get that behaviour by quickly editing the example I gave you. The maths is really geometry. There are a few things that can be done as time domain transforms when thinking about envelopes and suchlike in this way. 1) Flip it around zero with [*~ -1] 2) Invert arithmetically wrt 1.0 using [sig~ 1][-~] 3) Get the [min~] or the [max~] wrt another value 4) Clamp at a value using [clip~] ... is special case of (3) 5) Shift by an amount using [-~] or [+~] 6) Scale by some factor with [*~] IIRC the idiom for a two stage envelope like that is to use [min~]/[max~] to create a split point and treat each of the two branches differently (you can do piecewise waveform construction the same way). If you want time symmetry then have the [vline~] go to 1.0 and back to [0.0] and just use one of the branches. On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:45:55 +0200 Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, Thank you for your responses. I tried your suggestion, hardoff, and the result is the attached [ead-reverse~]. Unfortunately, the expression behaves differently with this [vline~]-construction as with the [phasor~]. Here, if 1 is entered into the right input of [expr~], the result is an envelope whose steepness becomes exponentially smaller while ascending and exponentially greater while descending (if near 0, the opposite form is produced and values between 1 and 0 produce a divided, confused form). I however wish to produce an envelope that becomes exponentially steeper both ascending and descending. My problem with this [expr~] as well as with Mr. Farnell's patches is that I do not quite understand the math behind them. Any ideas? Best regards, Stephan Elliot Perez On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:54 PM, hard off hard@gmail.com wrote: instead of the [phaser~], send a [line~] (or [vline~]) signal. for example: [1, 0.5 500, 0 1000 500( | [vline~] like most of my patches, i don't think i originally made that one, someone else posted it, and i just copied. ;) must have been a long time ago though, cos i barely remember it. On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, I wish to produce a wave form with the opposite form of the normal ead~ wave (the curves become exponentially steeper instead of flatter), which I can achieve by entering a negative number into the phasor in hard off's exact-ead~ patch, which I downloaded from the archive. However, I still want to be able to independently change the length of the ascent, decline, and distance between waves as is possible with ead~. Does anyone know how I could do this, or possibly have access to an abstraction-version of ead~? Best regards, Stephan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ead-reverse-problem~.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] backwards ead~
Greetings, Thank you for your responses. I tried your suggestion, hardoff, and the result is the attached [ead-reverse~]. Unfortunately, the expression behaves differently with this [vline~]-construction as with the [phasor~]. Here, if 1 is entered into the right input of [expr~], the result is an envelope whose steepness becomes exponentially smaller while ascending and exponentially greater while descending (if near 0, the opposite form is produced and values between 1 and 0 produce a divided, confused form). I however wish to produce an envelope that becomes exponentially steeper both ascending and descending. My problem with this [expr~] as well as with Mr. Farnell's patches is that I do not quite understand the math behind them. Any ideas? Best regards, Stephan Elliot Perez On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:54 PM, hard off hard@gmail.com wrote: instead of the [phaser~], send a [line~] (or [vline~]) signal. for example: [1, 0.5 500, 0 1000 500( | [vline~] like most of my patches, i don't think i originally made that one, someone else posted it, and i just copied. ;) must have been a long time ago though, cos i barely remember it. On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Stephan Elliot Perez dreamoftheshoreofanotherwo...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, I wish to produce a wave form with the opposite form of the normal ead~ wave (the curves become exponentially steeper instead of flatter), which I can achieve by entering a negative number into the phasor in hard off's exact-ead~ patch, which I downloaded from the archive. However, I still want to be able to independently change the length of the ascent, decline, and distance between waves as is possible with ead~. Does anyone know how I could do this, or possibly have access to an abstraction-version of ead~? Best regards, Stephan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ead-reverse~.pd Description: Binary data exact-ead~.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] backwards ead~
Greetings, I wish to produce a wave form with the opposite form of the normal ead~ wave (the curves become exponentially steeper instead of flatter), which I can achieve by entering a negative number into the phasor in hard off's exact-ead~ patch, which I downloaded from the archive. However, I still want to be able to independently change the length of the ascent, decline, and distance between waves as is possible with ead~. Does anyone know how I could do this, or possibly have access to an abstraction-version of ead~? Best regards, Stephan exact-ead~.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
