Re: [PD] elitism, software and academia (was GEM FTGL Sadness)
hi On 6/7/07, jared <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All of the work done (out of love, not money) by the pd community should > be applauded. With that said, there is a sense of elitism. how does this perceived elitism affect your ability to make music? to learn about digitial synthesis? is it an excuse to avoid the work required? i've seen lots of beginner questions answered here- sometimes with sarcasm, but mostly with patience [and sometimes with both]. > I think academia needs to recognize that there are many composers who > use computers as a means to an end; who make music with the AID of > computers; not to make music WITH computers. this seems like an arbitrary line you are drawing. are you talking about people who use presets as opposed to people who can generate their own 'presets'? and why is academia some kind of measuring stick? in my experience, academia is not the ivory tower you seem to be implying- it is filled with people, some more creative, some less creative, some as greedy as any industrialist you could find in the private sector. > There is still a rigid > line that separates the composer and the programmer. the rigidity is mostly in your mind. composing is very much like programming. instead of working in perl, beethoven worked with staff paper [think punch cards]. how is a repeat sign in a score different than a 'while' loop? how is a fugal theme different than a variable that gets subjected to a certain kind of treatment? > What about today's composers who are > interested in classical compositional techniques and forms, but who are, > at heart, electronic music composers and want to apply these classical > techniques and forms to their electronic compositions with the AID of > technology, yet have no interest in programming? they are out of luck. what about someone who wants to perform bach's wtc and has no interest in learning the piano? also, as an aside, forget about classical forms: what do *you* have to say? [although if you want make a career out of being an anachronism, maybe the academies of the world will support you] > :-) :-P -- \js [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] elitism, software and academia (was GEM FTGL Sadness)
hi On 6/7/07, David Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I really think it's just absurd to force all musicians into a model > that may only make sense from the software engineering / DSP side of > things. I usually am arguing more on the pro-technology side of > things, but in this case I think I must remind people : you don't need > a computer to make music. of course that is true. all you really need is your voice [or 'love' if you're a beatle wannabe] ... but if you want to do electronic music, with any degree of sophistication, you need to learn the tools. i guess i get a bit irritated when people think that computer music should be immediately accessible to them- then get upset when they find out they need to understand something about how computers work with audio in order to get what they want out of them. they think they can just press a button and ... if you just sit down at a piano and don't know anything about it, you might get some nice stuff out- but it's more a matter of serendipity than anything. you practice to get better. computers use math to do audio [dsp, convolution, ...]. so you need to study math [not really that much for most applications, but it does help]. and learning a programming language in some way will help too. musicians have been doing math for a long time [at least since pythagorean tunings, if not before]. and i don't even know about chinese or indian or arab or X traditions. [using algebra in a sentence there] also the jump from composition to programming is really not that great. it's all about flow control ... -- \js [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism
hey On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties? not all of us do! there are still some of us on the lunatic fringe although you won't hear about any of it in the corporate media. and although the anti-war movement keeps growing the two big money political parties don't want to touch it [because the war is all about big money] ... this country [usa] needs an enema! [or at least an impeachment] -- \js [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] I just made a beginner's PD tutorial and posted it...
hola On 12/3/07, vade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My only thought was a bit more of an explanation as to what PD is, > what it can do, where to get it, and how to install it. http://puredata.info/ :-P -- \js [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] pd 'instrument' ?
hi i came across this video on a theremin list: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_hiz-Kx0kM can anyone tell me if this is pd running the show? looks like linux too. if not, then what? and too bad that there couldn't have been any fluctuation in the dynamics ... -- \js [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Vote your font! [was: fonts on GNU/Linux]
hi On 5/18/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Which do you prefer? > [ x ] normal.png > [ ] bold.png bold is too demanding for documentation. -- \js [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Piksel video report: Sonification of IT censorship technologies
greetings if i understand you, one of your indirect points is that artists need to get more scientific. this seems correct to me [art has always been practiced by leading scientists, think of einstein and his violin]. and at the same time, this does not mean to ignore imagination- it means you must do everything. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: > This is a classic example of the ongoing (mis)communication(s) between > artists and scientists. > And far too many artists lack the training to engage with the > real media of their work and instead hire technicians to realize it for > them. as most of us know, traditional artistic training does not cover what tech savvy artists need to know: - how to program [something] - how is information stored and retrieved using [relational] data bases - what is the network like both as artistic medium [there is some activity here] and for propaganda purposes and for all artists: - what is the role of money in art culture [a subsidiary to: what is the role of money in my life] ? but learning how to do art is hard enough. and understanding technology from a tools perspective is hard enough. so why is it that any artist will take this upon themselves? because it's necessary to their art works. [that's enough] -- \js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin [http://or8.net/~johns/] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] "computer music" WAS: Re: Pd at a livecoding event on the BBC
hola thx for your thoughtful post. On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Fernando Gadea wrote: > 1- physical instruments well, yes; body, rhythm, instruments, music. but i think there is also something interesting in 'mental' music. or music that is achieved only through programming sounds. like those old vienese [and of course other places too] used to do with paper and pen ... > 2- About academic-high culture-Art and popular-low culture-art this is a religious war- completely outside the bounds of rationality. and really, i don't care which 'club' an artist comes from: i just want their work to captivate me. what makes something art? how do we know if it is any good? there are no laws about this. people assert them periodically, but they are soon enough forgotten. -- \js [ - . . . ] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd, Max/Msp, Reaktor, Plogue Bidule... How do these compare?
ciao > Gareth Loy with the title 'The Composer Seduced into Programming' > "It is important to note just what the > seducing agent in these cases really is. It is certainly not carpentry or > programming, or we would have ceased as artists and become tradesmen. It is > really the will of the composer, expressed through the discipline of the art > form itself which, in all cases, not just the ones under discussion here, > causes the artist to stray into these seemingly distant fields." i find it beneficial to try and make explicit assumptions, in persuasive writing or music composing. what is the difference between artists and tradesmen? are either more valuable than the other? [try getting to work in a contrapuntal study] 'the will of the composer' that's a very evocative phrase what about zen composers? [john cage] what kind of will do they have? i am suspect of self importance. i think learning how to use something [a digital audio environment, pen and paper musical notation, ...] will enrich a person. it's all connected. a person has to make choices on how to spend their time. are they good choices or bad ones? it is not for me to say. i think spending time learning dsp or any tools is worthwhile. as i said above, i find it enriching. also, we are not machines. it is ok to have multiple interests [it means you are just more engaged in the world around you]. it is ok to fail. it is part of what makes us human [and not machine]. nonetheless, machines can be very helpful. -- \js :-P ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] ChucK vs. Pd
yo On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Pierre Massat wrote: > Has anyone ever used ChucK? guilty. > How does it compare with Pd? well, it doesn't have pd's patching visual interface. it doesn't have the endless extentions [existing and extinct] that pd does. and it doesn't have a commercial cousin [max] like pd. it's a different mindset, a different interface. my time with it was very fruitful. i'd recommend it. > I m assuming it hasn't been developped for long enough to beat Pd. no need to beat up each other! isn't it better to have more than one kind of audio programming interface? -- \js :-P ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] ⌘+⇧+L
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:09 AM, cyrille henry wrote: > well, look like someone god is someone else nightmare. you have become enlightened. -- \js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin [http://or8.net/~johns/] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Workshop: Switch from PureData! (Barcelona)
greeting am i the only one who thinks it's odd to promote an anti-pd workshop on a pd list? i'm not saying the idea is wrong or bad [or good], just that it strikes me as not very well thought through to promote it here. like trying to drum up attendance at a easter service by posting to pagan list ... On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:57 AM, l'ull cec wrote: > Workshop: Switch from PureData! (or MAX/MSP for that matter) -- \js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin [http://or8.net/~johns/] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Workshop: Switch from PureData! (Barcelona)
hi On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:27 AM, l'ull cec wrote: > Framing the workshop as an "anti-pd" activity seems a tad on the > extremist side from here. ok, but that's how it reads: "switch from pd" [instead of "supercollider is cool"] i certainly am not interested in making us all use one tool, nor am i interested in trying to prevent or limit attendance at your workshop. and i've always been bad at the marketing stuff, so maybe you are just way ahead of me there ... > No offence meant, really. none taken -- \js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin [http://or8.net/~johns/] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
