Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hi Hans, everybody, Seems like I don't understand some stuff here, cause I am getting a lot of trouble with latest(s) Pd-extended releases (as ... nobody :) ) * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X What does this actuallly means ? These libs don't load at startup, and when I add the flag -lib pdp, I get this : /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/pdp.pd_darwin: dlopen(/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/pdp.pd_darwin, 10): Library not loaded: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/pdp.pd_darwin Reason: image not found pdp: can't load library And I checked that pdp.pd_darwin is in the extra folder (same problems with pidip) - A somehow related quetion : what happened to the preferences plist previously present in older releases, or put another way, why pd-ext doesn't try to load these libs (in particular) at startup ? - I do have issues also with rradical. For same reasons the lib doesn't load at startup and when I import it, I still have some externals not appearing, like coreGUI for example, I did not find where it comes from ... I may have some other problems, but I'm trying to solve them one by one ... Some details, I am on Intel iMac G5 with (of course) latest Pd-ext. I don't know if it is of importance, but I have several concurrent versions of Pd in my applications folder : another Pd-ext (Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1), the latest Pd vanilla from Miller site together with the corresponding source files (with externals source files too from sourceforge) ... Any hints appreciated Sylvain Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. http://puredata.org/downloads/ Some highlights: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X * Gem has working shader support * new libraries: mapping, msd, mrpeach net/OSC, flib * [comport] is robust on all platforms * -font-face and -font-weight command line options * new font and layout is the exact same size on all platforms to the pixel * a new, pretty Icon on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X * anti-aliasing of boxes and lines on Mac OS X * a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu, with GNOME menu support If you want the details, here's the changelog: 0.39.3-extended-rc5 * Mac OS X: pidip finds its default font again * Debian/Ubuntu: some minor cleanups in the package * included setuid security fix from Miller (hence bumped up version to 0.39.3 0.39.2-extended-rc4 * Mac OS X: added default prefs separate from embedded prefs * GNU/Linux: added embedded prefs * Mac OS X: updated msd/2D/3D from http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/osx/ * Windows: reg settings for loading libs now in installer * Mac OS X and Windows: added xsample to load by default * Mac OS X: switched Cmd-T to fontpanel * Mac OS X: added Cmd-click to toggle editmode * font and box size tweaks to make everything fit in the boxes * Debian and Ubuntu: Created quick hack debian package * added ggee to default libraries to load * GNU/Linux: PiDiP finds the fonts by default now 0.39.2-extended-rc3 * pdp and pidip support quicktime/mjpeg/png * included list-abs now works properly with 0.39.2 * Gem font support on Mac OS X is now included! * delread~/delwrite~ bug fixed * sqrt~ bug fixed 0.39.2-extended-rc2 * Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is now default font on Windows and GNU/ Linux * Monaco is the default font on Mac OS X * fixed GUI size, should actually be the same size on all platforms now * pdp and pidip should support quicktime/mjpeg/png and theora now * pdp_ieee1394 included on Mac OS X * the Mac OS X package looks much better, thanks to Stffn http:// dibidut.dk * default preferences are embedded into the Pd.app on Mac OS X * revamped font flags and added '-font-weight' flag * it's still missing Gem font support on Mac OS X :( * the delread~/sqrt~ bug is still not fixed :( 0.39.2-extended-rc1 * DejaVu Sans Mono is now default font * same sizes and layout on all platforms 0.39.2-extended-test7 * Gem should be installed and working on all platforms * the MSD (Mass-Spring-Damper) externals are included * included Thomas Grill's Mac/Intel fixes for iemlib and cyclone * Universal binaries for flext externals 0.39.2-extended-test6 * Lots of random little bugs fixed 0.39.2-extended-test5 * Much has changed, this test release should have benefitted a lot from the nightly autobuilds and a few workshops to stress test them 0.39.2-extended-test4 * all of creb should be included now on all platforms * updated version of [hid] for Mac OS X 0.39.2-extended-test3 * Added iem_ambi and iem_bin_ambi libraries * Cleaned up the doc folders * Removed the
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
On Oct 27, 2007, at 10:03 AM, Sylvain wrote: Hi Hans, everybody, Seems like I don't understand some stuff here, cause I am getting a lot of trouble with latest(s) Pd-extended releases (as ... nobody :) ) * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X What does this actuallly means ? These libs don't load at startup, and when I add the flag -lib pdp, I get this : /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/ pdp.pd_darwin: dlopen(/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../ extra/pdp.pd_darwin, 10): Library not loaded: /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.6.dylib Referenced from: /Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../extra/ pdp.pd_darwin Reason: image not found pdp: can't load library And I checked that pdp.pd_darwin is in the extra folder (same problems with pidip) Install X11, it's on your Mac OS X 10.4 DVD. - A somehow related quetion : what happened to the preferences plist previously present in older releases, or put another way, why pd-ext doesn't try to load these libs (in particular) at startup ? It's embedded into the app itself. Remove your pref file, and it'll use the embedded one: rm ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist - I do have issues also with rradical. For same reasons the lib doesn't load at startup and when I import it, I still have some externals not appearing, like coreGUI for example, I did not find where it comes from ... Donno about these... .hc I may have some other problems, but I'm trying to solve them one by one ... Some details, I am on Intel iMac G5 with (of course) latest Pd-ext. I don't know if it is of importance, but I have several concurrent versions of Pd in my applications folder : another Pd-ext (Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1), the latest Pd vanilla from Miller site together with the corresponding source files (with externals source files too from sourceforge) ... Any hints appreciated Sylvain Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. http://puredata.org/downloads/ Some highlights: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X * Gem has working shader support * new libraries: mapping, msd, mrpeach net/OSC, flib * [comport] is robust on all platforms * -font-face and -font-weight command line options * new font and layout is the exact same size on all platforms to the pixel * a new, pretty Icon on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X * anti-aliasing of boxes and lines on Mac OS X * a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu, with GNOME menu support If you want the details, here's the changelog: 0.39.3-extended-rc5 * Mac OS X: pidip finds its default font again * Debian/Ubuntu: some minor cleanups in the package * included setuid security fix from Miller (hence bumped up version to 0.39.3 0.39.2-extended-rc4 * Mac OS X: added default prefs separate from embedded prefs * GNU/Linux: added embedded prefs * Mac OS X: updated msd/2D/3D from http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/ osx/ * Windows: reg settings for loading libs now in installer * Mac OS X and Windows: added xsample to load by default * Mac OS X: switched Cmd-T to fontpanel * Mac OS X: added Cmd-click to toggle editmode * font and box size tweaks to make everything fit in the boxes * Debian and Ubuntu: Created quick hack debian package * added ggee to default libraries to load * GNU/Linux: PiDiP finds the fonts by default now 0.39.2-extended-rc3 * pdp and pidip support quicktime/mjpeg/png * included list-abs now works properly with 0.39.2 * Gem font support on Mac OS X is now included! * delread~/delwrite~ bug fixed * sqrt~ bug fixed 0.39.2-extended-rc2 * Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is now default font on Windows and GNU/ Linux * Monaco is the default font on Mac OS X * fixed GUI size, should actually be the same size on all platforms now * pdp and pidip should support quicktime/mjpeg/png and theora now * pdp_ieee1394 included on Mac OS X * the Mac OS X package looks much better, thanks to Stffn http:// dibidut.dk * default preferences are embedded into the Pd.app on Mac OS X * revamped font flags and added '-font-weight' flag * it's still missing Gem font support on Mac OS X :( * the delread~/sqrt~ bug is still not fixed :( 0.39.2-extended-rc1 * DejaVu Sans Mono is now default font * same sizes and layout on all platforms 0.39.2-extended-test7 * Gem should be installed and working on all platforms * the MSD (Mass-Spring-Damper) externals are included * included Thomas Grill's Mac/Intel fixes for iemlib and cyclone * Universal binaries for flext externals 0.39.2-extended-test6 * Lots of random little bugs fixed 0.39.2-extended-test5 * Much has changed, this test release should have benefitted a lot from the nightly autobuilds
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: - I do have issues also with rradical. For same reasons the lib doesn't load at startup and when I import it, I still have some externals not appearing, like coreGUI for example, I did not find where it comes from ... Donno about these... careGUI is an abstraction, in CVS it's in abstractions/rradical/memento/careGUI.pd, donno where it's in pd-extended. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 13:41 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. Congratulations HC! This is a fantastic achievement. I now have Pd working consistently across the three platforms I use for development. I think portability, consistency and ease of installation are very strong advantages for pd-(extended) over other environments for 'computer music' (Csound, SuperCollider etc) all of which are significantly harder to get up and running with anything like a complete set of functionality. Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
On Oct 23, 2007, at 4:23 AM, Jamie Bullock wrote: On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 13:41 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. Congratulations HC! This is a fantastic achievement. I now have Pd working consistently across the three platforms I use for development. I think portability, consistency and ease of installation are very strong advantages for pd-(extended) over other environments for 'computer music' (Csound, SuperCollider etc) all of which are significantly harder to get up and running with anything like a complete set of functionality. Thanks for your words of support, I'm glad it's making life easier. I really think that we all benefit hugely by sharing a common platform. Then we can thing about making better music, art, programs, etc. instead of wrestling with installation issues. :D .hc Jamie -- www.postlude.co.uk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Oct 21, 2007, at 6:47 PM, marius schebella wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X live input should be renamed from pdp_v4l to pdp_ieee1394 I couldn't resist. I made this change in all the help patches and example patches, and reuploaded the release. So if you are on the Mac and your pdp/pidip patches have pdp_v4l in them, download again. how about: creating an abstraction [pdp_videoin] (or [pdp_livein]) that uses either [pdp_v4l] or [pdp_ieee1394] actually i thought there was something like this... fgarm IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
is it possible to improve something on the xp installer? I have my own particular version of pd installed, and what the installer does is basically overwriting almost all files. but the installer asks if he wants to overwrite *each* file, so I must sit there with the finger on the yes key for 5min. is it possible to add a yes for all button? joao Am 21.10.2007, 19:41 Uhr, schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. http://puredata.org/downloads/ Some highlights: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X * Gem has working shader support * new libraries: mapping, msd, mrpeach net/OSC, flib * [comport] is robust on all platforms * -font-face and -font-weight command line options * new font and layout is the exact same size on all platforms to the pixel * a new, pretty Icon on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X * anti-aliasing of boxes and lines on Mac OS X * a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu, with GNOME menu support If you want the details, here's the changelog: 0.39.3-extended-rc5 * Mac OS X: pidip finds its default font again * Debian/Ubuntu: some minor cleanups in the package * included setuid security fix from Miller (hence bumped up version to 0.39.3 0.39.2-extended-rc4 * Mac OS X: added default prefs separate from embedded prefs * GNU/Linux: added embedded prefs * Mac OS X: updated msd/2D/3D from http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/osx/ * Windows: reg settings for loading libs now in installer * Mac OS X and Windows: added xsample to load by default * Mac OS X: switched Cmd-T to fontpanel * Mac OS X: added Cmd-click to toggle editmode * font and box size tweaks to make everything fit in the boxes * Debian and Ubuntu: Created quick hack debian package * added ggee to default libraries to load * GNU/Linux: PiDiP finds the fonts by default now 0.39.2-extended-rc3 * pdp and pidip support quicktime/mjpeg/png * included list-abs now works properly with 0.39.2 * Gem font support on Mac OS X is now included! * delread~/delwrite~ bug fixed * sqrt~ bug fixed 0.39.2-extended-rc2 * Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is now default font on Windows and GNU/ Linux * Monaco is the default font on Mac OS X * fixed GUI size, should actually be the same size on all platforms now * pdp and pidip should support quicktime/mjpeg/png and theora now * pdp_ieee1394 included on Mac OS X * the Mac OS X package looks much better, thanks to Stffn http:// dibidut.dk * default preferences are embedded into the Pd.app on Mac OS X * revamped font flags and added '-font-weight' flag * it's still missing Gem font support on Mac OS X :( * the delread~/sqrt~ bug is still not fixed :( 0.39.2-extended-rc1 * DejaVu Sans Mono is now default font * same sizes and layout on all platforms 0.39.2-extended-test7 * Gem should be installed and working on all platforms * the MSD (Mass-Spring-Damper) externals are included * included Thomas Grill's Mac/Intel fixes for iemlib and cyclone * Universal binaries for flext externals 0.39.2-extended-test6 * Lots of random little bugs fixed 0.39.2-extended-test5 * Much has changed, this test release should have benefitted a lot from the nightly autobuilds and a few workshops to stress test them 0.39.2-extended-test4 * all of creb should be included now on all platforms * updated version of [hid] for Mac OS X 0.39.2-extended-test3 * Added iem_ambi and iem_bin_ambi libraries * Cleaned up the doc folders * Removed the annoying close confirm * Added latest Gem test builds * Writing to the serial port using [comport] now works on Windows 0.39.2-extended-test2 * included Mapping lib, RRADical, pixelTANGO * included intro workshop sketches 0.39.2-extended-test1 * Basically minimal changes from Pd-0.38.4-extended, just enough to get it to build Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin Deutschland Tel +49 30 42020091 Mob +49 162 6843570 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: jmmmpjmmmp http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp IBM Thinkpad R51, XP, Pd-Ext-0.39-2-t5, Pd Van 0.40-t2 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hello, João Miguel Pais a écrit : is it possible to improve something on the xp installer? I have my own particular version of pd installed, and what the installer does is basically overwriting almost all files. but the installer asks if he wants to overwrite *each* file, so I must sit there with the finger on the yes key for 5min. is it possible to add a yes for all button? joao Just a little hint, this is caused by the this in the iss file: DestDir: {sys}; Flags: confirmoverwrite promptifolder it could be replaced by DestDir: {sys}; CopyMode: alwaysoverwrite I didn't try it because I can't make packages with my mingw setup and the actual cvs files, too many errors... ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Patrice Colet wrote: Hello, João Miguel Pais a écrit : is it possible to improve something on the xp installer? I have my own particular version of pd installed, and what the installer does is basically overwriting almost all files. but the installer asks if he wants to overwrite *each* file, so I must sit there with the finger on the yes key for 5min. is it possible to add a yes for all button? joao Just a little hint, this is caused by the this in the iss file: DestDir: {sys}; Flags: confirmoverwrite promptifolder it could be replaced by DestDir: {sys}; CopyMode: alwaysoverwrite I didn't try it because I can't make packages with my mingw setup and the actual cvs files, too many errors... If you post the errors on pd-dev then we can help you get past them .hc There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
I am sure it can be improved. Patches welcome! :D Also, I am actively seeking someone to take over maintenance of the Windows builds of Pd-extended. Any volunteers? .hc On Oct 22, 2007, at 9:34 AM, João Miguel Pais wrote: is it possible to improve something on the xp installer? I have my own particular version of pd installed, and what the installer does is basically overwriting almost all files. but the installer asks if he wants to overwrite *each* file, so I must sit there with the finger on the yes key for 5min. is it possible to add a yes for all button? joao Am 21.10.2007, 19:41 Uhr, schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Finally, it's done! The most polished release of Pd yet. We are further refining Pd into a truly powerful and usable programming platform. http://puredata.org/downloads/ Some highlights: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X * Gem has working shader support * new libraries: mapping, msd, mrpeach net/OSC, flib * [comport] is robust on all platforms * -font-face and -font-weight command line options * new font and layout is the exact same size on all platforms to the pixel * a new, pretty Icon on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X * anti-aliasing of boxes and lines on Mac OS X * a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu, with GNOME menu support If you want the details, here's the changelog: 0.39.3-extended-rc5 * Mac OS X: pidip finds its default font again * Debian/Ubuntu: some minor cleanups in the package * included setuid security fix from Miller (hence bumped up version to 0.39.3 0.39.2-extended-rc4 * Mac OS X: added default prefs separate from embedded prefs * GNU/Linux: added embedded prefs * Mac OS X: updated msd/2D/3D from http://g.org/ext/beta/pd/ osx/ * Windows: reg settings for loading libs now in installer * Mac OS X and Windows: added xsample to load by default * Mac OS X: switched Cmd-T to fontpanel * Mac OS X: added Cmd-click to toggle editmode * font and box size tweaks to make everything fit in the boxes * Debian and Ubuntu: Created quick hack debian package * added ggee to default libraries to load * GNU/Linux: PiDiP finds the fonts by default now 0.39.2-extended-rc3 * pdp and pidip support quicktime/mjpeg/png * included list-abs now works properly with 0.39.2 * Gem font support on Mac OS X is now included! * delread~/delwrite~ bug fixed * sqrt~ bug fixed 0.39.2-extended-rc2 * Bitstream Vera Sans Mono is now default font on Windows and GNU/ Linux * Monaco is the default font on Mac OS X * fixed GUI size, should actually be the same size on all platforms now * pdp and pidip should support quicktime/mjpeg/png and theora now * pdp_ieee1394 included on Mac OS X * the Mac OS X package looks much better, thanks to Stffn http:// dibidut.dk * default preferences are embedded into the Pd.app on Mac OS X * revamped font flags and added '-font-weight' flag * it's still missing Gem font support on Mac OS X :( * the delread~/sqrt~ bug is still not fixed :( 0.39.2-extended-rc1 * DejaVu Sans Mono is now default font * same sizes and layout on all platforms 0.39.2-extended-test7 * Gem should be installed and working on all platforms * the MSD (Mass-Spring-Damper) externals are included * included Thomas Grill's Mac/Intel fixes for iemlib and cyclone * Universal binaries for flext externals 0.39.2-extended-test6 * Lots of random little bugs fixed 0.39.2-extended-test5 * Much has changed, this test release should have benefitted a lot from the nightly autobuilds and a few workshops to stress test them 0.39.2-extended-test4 * all of creb should be included now on all platforms * updated version of [hid] for Mac OS X 0.39.2-extended-test3 * Added iem_ambi and iem_bin_ambi libraries * Cleaned up the doc folders * Removed the annoying close confirm * Added latest Gem test builds * Writing to the serial port using [comport] now works on Windows 0.39.2-extended-test2 * included Mapping lib, RRADical, pixelTANGO * included intro workshop sketches 0.39.2-extended-test1 * Basically minimal changes from Pd-0.38.4-extended, just enough to get it to build - --- Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin Deutschland Tel +49 30 42020091 Mob +49 162 6843570 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: jmmmpjmmmp http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp IBM Thinkpad R51, XP, Pd-Ext-0.39-2-t5, Pd Van 0.40-t2
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X live input should be renamed from pdp_v4l to pdp_ieee1394 * Gem has working shader support which is almost not documented, but cyrille, chris already did some documentation, and I am trying to write some tutorials, too. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.3-extended released!
On Oct 21, 2007, at 6:47 PM, marius schebella wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: * PDP/PiDiP work out-of-box on Mac OS X live input should be renamed from pdp_v4l to pdp_ieee1394 I couldn't resist. I made this change in all the help patches and example patches, and reuploaded the release. So if you are on the Mac and your pdp/pidip patches have pdp_v4l in them, download again. :D .hc * Gem has working shader support which is almost not documented, but cyrille, chris already did some documentation, and I am trying to write some tutorials, too. marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list