Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-19 Thread Steffen Leve Poulsen 

list of any length or ints of any size.
Here is xor.pd and help-xor.pd (already a classic).

You should tjek out how xor.pd is constructed. I think this is the way 
to go when its bitwise. You can easily change the int size (list length).


God Luck
Steffen Leve Poulsen

David Powers skrev:



Ah this is interesting - and proof that it's really time I learn
dynamic patching ... your approach is probably more efficient, but on
the other hard, my approach allows for lists of any length. (Although,
I doubt that I'd be doing patterns longer than 64 very often.) Anyway,
my point is that with dynamic patching perhaps it would be possible to
use your approach, without knowing the length of the list in advance.
~David

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-19 Thread Steffen Leve Poulsen 

Just a small correction

Stffn

Steffen Leve Poulsen skrev:

list of any length or ints of any size.
Here is xor.pd and help-xor.pd (already a classic).

You should tjek out how xor.pd is constructed. I think this is the way 
to go when its bitwise. You can easily change the int size (list length).


God Luck
Steffen Leve Poulsen

David Powers skrev:



Ah this is interesting - and proof that it's really time I learn
dynamic patching ... your approach is probably more efficient, but on
the other hard, my approach allows for lists of any length. (Although,
I doubt that I'd be doing patterns longer than 64 very often.) Anyway,
my point is that with dynamic patching perhaps it would be possible to
use your approach, without knowing the length of the list in advance.
~David
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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-18 Thread Martin Peach 
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
 Martin Peach wrote:
 IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
 Martin Peach wrote:

   
   
   
 Also if my string patch is applied to pd, you can use [str drip 1 0 1 0 
 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1] to output that sequence one at a time. Since the floats 

 then why the hell do you need [str drip]? there is no stringish content
 in your example, so you could as well use pure pd objects (see frank's
 list abstractions), or zexy's [drip]  [repack] (which are as well
 externals as your [str] but don't require pd to be patched).
The string in my example is the string of digits. Yes, I would 
personally just use a row of toggles. It simplifies inputting values, I 
can't imagine anyone starting with a decimal representation of a binary 
string to define a rhythm, what they want is the other way around.



 are always 1 or 0 there won't be any problems with long strings.
 
 in theory this is correct.
 nevertheless, when saving a patch containing a string (this is: a
 symbol) 101, pd will eventually parse this as number 101.0 on
 re-loading the patch.
 therefore i proposed a truly symbolic representation.

 no, i don't think so.

 even though i haven't looked closely at your string-implementation
 (which really should be called blob rather than string, imho)
I did it to see if it would work, the name is irrelevant to me. I guess 
as far as string implies text, it was a bad idea. The object manages a 
list of bytes, so they are strings in the c sense except there is no 
trailing zero, and in the Pascal sense except that the length is kept 
beside the string, not in front. The strings may be stored and read from 
files but they aren't saved in the pd patch except as arguments to the 
str objects.

 , i
 doubt whether it interferes at all with pd's saving mechanism which is
 the problem here (at least: which is the problem i am talking about).

 the internal symbol representation is an as truly symbolic
 representation as your strings are
 there are other problems with symbols, like the infinetely growing
 hash-table; this is (to my knowledge) somewhat addressed by your
 strings; but this has nothing to do with the problem of storing the
 token 01 in pd: at the best it will be stored as 01, but on
 loading the patch it will be become 1 (which might be appropriate, but
 might as well not).

As I said, if it's stored as an argument to a str object, 0 0 0 0 0 1 
with spaces in between the digits involves no symbols, only floats. Even 
if that gets converted to 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 it won't affect the 
meaning. The str object doesn't use symbols internally except for the 
[str tosymbol] variant.

Martin


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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-18 Thread David Powers 
On 3/18/07, Steffen Leve Poulsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi David

 I sometimes use constructs like attached patch. Its just a bitmask.
 Quite effektive for eventfiltering, beatcuts and patterncreation.

 more xor!

Ah this is interesting - and proof that it's really time I learn
dynamic patching ... your approach is probably more efficient, but on
the other hard, my approach allows for lists of any length. (Although,
I doubt that I'd be doing patterns longer than 64 very often.) Anyway,
my point is that with dynamic patching perhaps it would be possible to
use your approach, without knowing the length of the list in advance.
~David

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-17 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig 
David Powers wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
 binary in PD?
 
 My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
 numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
 trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
 think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
 implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
 operations which should be much faster, I assume.
 


just to chime in:
pd internally uses 32bit floats, which will make your idea troublesome
to implement as soon as you want patterns longer than (...cannot rembmer
right now).

you could always use zexy's [symbol2list] to convert a symbol
[+-+-+---+-++] into a list of symbols + - + - + - - - + - + +
which can then easily be passed with a kind of [drip] (or [list/drip]
into a [select] in order to trigger stuff.


mfg.asdr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-17 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig 
Martin Peach wrote:

   
 Also if my string patch is applied to pd, you can use [str drip 1 0 1 0 
 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1] to output that sequence one at a time. Since the floats 
 are always 1 or 0 there won't be any problems with long strings.

in theory this is correct.
nevertheless, when saving a patch containing a string (this is: a
symbol) 101, pd will eventually parse this as number 101.0 on
re-loading the patch.
therefore i proposed a truly symbolic representation.

of course you could also use some prefix to enforce it a symbol, like
#100110100, but then you have an additional character just to workaround
pd's limitations with string handling.
using +--++-+- (or IOIIIOIOI, or ...) is cleaner in a sense that it
totally represents the 101001 scheme but deals (as opposed to works
around) pd's shortcomings.

mfga.sdr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-17 Thread David Powers 
I have some abstractions now all together with help - both for
conversions and for rhythm manipulation. Will post later when I get
home, I don't have my laptop right now...

~David

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-17 Thread Chris McCormick 
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 11:44:54AM -0600, David Powers wrote:
 Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
 binary in PD?

Hi David,

I know this isn't exactly what you want, but it is along the same lines.
I used to enjoy writing beats on graph paper before transcribing them
into the computer, and this abstraction is perfect for doing that:

http://mccormick.cx/viewcvs/*checkout*/s-abstractions/s-mseq.pd
http://mccormick.cx/viewcvs/*checkout*/s-abstractions/s-mseq-help.pd

It turns an integer into a binary/trinary/whatever rhythm which you can
look up by index.

Best,

Chris.

---
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http://mccormick.cx

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread Kyle Klipowicz 
You might want to look at the bitwise operators , , etc. I tried
to play with them after some summer flirtation I had with the RK C
manual, but never got far with that concept.
~Kyle

On 3/16/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
 binary in PD?

 My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
 numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
 trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
 think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
 implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
 operations which should be much faster, I assume.

 ~David

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread Steffen 

On 16/03/2007, at 18.44, David Powers wrote:

 Hello,

 Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
 binary in PD?

 My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
 numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
 trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
 think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
 implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
 operations which should be much faster, I assume.


I think you want to have a look at the bitwice operators ,,|,||,  
and . See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation

Hope this helps.

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread Kyle Klipowicz 
You must implement the algorithm shown in this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system#Decimal

I did that in C during that earlier mentioned summer of my KR C
binge. I'm not sure how tricky it would be to do in Pd.

~Kyle

On 3/16/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi, sorry I do know that, but it's not my question.

 In order to use the bitwise operators, I think I need to convert an
 arbitrary string of 0's and 1's, say 00010101, into an integer, in
 this case I think 21. Is that more clear?

 Thanks,
 David

 On 3/16/07, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 16/03/2007, at 18.44, David Powers wrote:
 
   Hello,
  
   Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
   binary in PD?
  
   My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
   numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
   trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
   think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
   implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
   operations which should be much faster, I assume.
 
 
  I think you want to have a look at the bitwice operators ,,|,||,
  and . See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation
 
  Hope this helps.
 

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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread padawan12 

binary to decimal, just raise the nth bit 2^^n, decimal to binary see attached
(done from Kyles link) - problem: the list is a variable length and you probably
want to pad it with zeros for whatever word length you have.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:17:02 -0600
David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi, sorry I do know that, but it's not my question.
 
 In order to use the bitwise operators, I think I need to convert an
 arbitrary string of 0's and 1's, say 00010101, into an integer, in
 this case I think 21. Is that more clear?
 
 Thanks,
 David
 
 On 3/16/07, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 16/03/2007, at 18.44, David Powers wrote:
 
   Hello,
  
   Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
   binary in PD?
  
   My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
   numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
   trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
   think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
   implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
   operations which should be much faster, I assume.
 
 
  I think you want to have a look at the bitwice operators ,,|,||,
  and . See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation
 
  Hope this helps.
 
 
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dec2bin.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread David Powers 
Wow I thought for sure this would be built in ... or at least a common
external.

It kind of defeats the point of using bitwise operations, if I have to
do a conversion with some PD list algorithm, because the whole point
was to avoid list operations in PD, in order to speed things up! It
would be easy enough to do though: tabdump, for every position that is
1, raise 2 to the i power (where i is the index of the position), and
add up the results.

I guess speed is the issue here for me, rather than the ability to
convert per se. This would be a good reason to write my first external
I guess.

~David

On 3/16/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You must implement the algorithm shown in this link:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system#Decimal

 I did that in C during that earlier mentioned summer of my KR C
 binge. I'm not sure how tricky it would be to do in Pd.

 ~Kyle

 On 3/16/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi, sorry I do know that, but it's not my question.
 
  In order to use the bitwise operators, I think I need to convert an
  arbitrary string of 0's and 1's, say 00010101, into an integer, in
  this case I think 21. Is that more clear?
 
  Thanks,
  David
 
  On 3/16/07, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   On 16/03/2007, at 18.44, David Powers wrote:
  
Hello,
   
Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
binary in PD?
   
My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
operations which should be much faster, I assume.
  
  
   I think you want to have a look at the bitwice operators ,,|,||,
   and . See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation
  
   Hope this helps.
  
 
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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread padawan12 
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:18:12 -0600
David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Wow I thought for sure this would be built in ... or at least a common
 external.

It possibly is. I'm just showing you how to do it from scratch in a way
that directly follows the algorithm Kyle pointed you at.

You could use  and  to rotate your numbers, and other ways to do it
differently. Making it extensible/flexible so that you can work on
8, 16, 32 or bigger rythmns is an important consideration, and you
usualy end up using lists to do that or adopt a fixed width approach.

 I guess speed is the issue here for me, rather than the ability to
 convert per se. 

The binary representation of beats has come up before, several times and
although it is seductive as an apparently efficient data structure it
has a bunch of its own pitfalls and weaknesses that I'm sure you will have
fun discovering :) As for speed, I don't think the conversion stage is 
where you will gain much opimisation anyway if your premise is to save 
cycles by doing bitwise transformations on integers.

 This would be a good reason to write my first external
 I guess.

Yes it would be a good task to do. It's quite trivial
in C. You could make a simple and general [bit n] 
that returns the nth bit of a decimal int on its
left inlet. To do it properly and make it maintainable
perhaps some arguments for byte/word size and endiness
would help.

 
 ~David
 
 On 3/16/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  You must implement the algorithm shown in this link:
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system#Decimal
 
  I did that in C during that earlier mentioned summer of my KR C
  binge. I'm not sure how tricky it would be to do in Pd.
 
  ~Kyle
 
  On 3/16/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hi, sorry I do know that, but it's not my question.
  
   In order to use the bitwise operators, I think I need to convert an
   arbitrary string of 0's and 1's, say 00010101, into an integer, in
   this case I think 21. Is that more clear?
  
   Thanks,
   David
  
   On 3/16/07, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
On 16/03/2007, at 18.44, David Powers wrote:
   
 Hello,

 Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
 binary in PD?

 My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
 numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
 trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
 think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
 implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
 operations which should be much faster, I assume.
   
   
I think you want to have a look at the bitwice operators ,,|,||,
and . See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation
   
Hope this helps.
   
  
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  http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
 
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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread Kyle Klipowicz 
I'll try to dig up my c code and give it to you, in exchange for GPL.

~Kyle

On 3/17/07, padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:18:12 -0600
 David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Wow I thought for sure this would be built in ... or at least a common
  external.

 It possibly is. I'm just showing you how to do it from scratch in a way
 that directly follows the algorithm Kyle pointed you at.

 You could use  and  to rotate your numbers, and other ways to do it
 differently. Making it extensible/flexible so that you can work on
 8, 16, 32 or bigger rythmns is an important consideration, and you
 usualy end up using lists to do that or adopt a fixed width approach.

  I guess speed is the issue here for me, rather than the ability to
  convert per se.

 The binary representation of beats has come up before, several times and
 although it is seductive as an apparently efficient data structure it
 has a bunch of its own pitfalls and weaknesses that I'm sure you will have
 fun discovering :) As for speed, I don't think the conversion stage is
 where you will gain much opimisation anyway if your premise is to save
 cycles by doing bitwise transformations on integers.

  This would be a good reason to write my first external
  I guess.

 Yes it would be a good task to do. It's quite trivial
 in C. You could make a simple and general [bit n]
 that returns the nth bit of a decimal int on its
 left inlet. To do it properly and make it maintainable
 perhaps some arguments for byte/word size and endiness
 would help.

 
  ~David
 
  On 3/16/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   You must implement the algorithm shown in this link:
  
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system#Decimal
  
   I did that in C during that earlier mentioned summer of my KR C
   binge. I'm not sure how tricky it would be to do in Pd.
  
   ~Kyle
  
   On 3/16/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, sorry I do know that, but it's not my question.
   
In order to use the bitwise operators, I think I need to convert an
arbitrary string of 0's and 1's, say 00010101, into an integer, in
this case I think 21. Is that more clear?
   
Thanks,
David
   
On 3/16/07, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 16/03/2007, at 18.44, David Powers wrote:

  Hello,
 
  Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
  binary in PD?
 
  My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
  numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
  trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
  think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
  implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
  operations which should be much faster, I assume.


 I think you want to have a look at the bitwice operators ,,|,||,
 and . See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation

 Hope this helps.

   
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   http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
  
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   _())(()))___
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Re: [PD] Binary - integer conversion

2007-03-16 Thread martin.peach 
I'm working on coding all the useful CMOS 4000 series chips as pd objects. They 
all use 0 and 1 as inputs and outputs. They were used in some sequencers and 
synths in the 70s and 80s. I could add objects to convert from float(integer) 
to binary as a kind of interface to them.
I'll put them in cvs soon.

Martin

 
 From: David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2007/03/16 Fri PM 01:44:54 EDT
 To: PD List pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: [PD] Binary - integer conversion
 
 Hello,
 
 Is it possible to somehow convert back and forth between integer and
 binary in PD?
 
 My idea, is to represent simple drum machine style rhythms as binary
 numbers. [101010001011]. Ok, so if this were a float, it would be
 trivial to do a common task and shift the rhythm left or right. I
 think, that other rhythmic variations would also be quite fast to
 implement using this system, you can do binary math instead of list
 operations which should be much faster, I assume.
 
 ~David
 
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 UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - 
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