Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-15 Thread Kyle Klipowicz
Hmmm so is the size of the data chunk the issue here? It took some
looking at the patch with some super arcane int to ascii to float
wizardry to even read the values coming from one sensor.

Could you please elaborate on this? I _THINK_ that the firmware right
now is using the digital connector to measure distance with the sensor
by sending a short several-microsecond pulse, then switching to input
mode and measuring the difference between pulse widths...I'm not a
sonar expert so this is still a bit elusive to me. Does it have to do
w/ the doppler effect in some way?

It is my understanding that this requires the digital in/out to work,
but you are saying that I could do this with the analog instead? Am I
right in guessing that the issue with more than 2 sensors on an
arduino chip is the data "chunk" size, for lack of a better word, or
do I need to find some (much welcomed if recommended by you experts
out there) more physical computing background knowledge?

Thanks for saving me from an expensive electronics art master's degree
program if you can provide some tutelage!

~Kyle



On 5/14/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You would just send the data as an analog value, which gives you 14-
> bits of resolution.  In the Arduino firmware, it would just take the
> values from the sensor and report them as a analog value using the
> Firmata protocol.  The [arduino] object already understands the
> Firmata protocol, so it would just see the data as any other analog
> message.
>
> .hc
>
> On May 10, 2007, at 10:38 PM, marius schebella wrote:
>
> > I think the ultrasonic sensors send serial bytevalues and not an
> > analog value, correct? how can you connect them to the pduino? or
> > how can you connect even more of them. can firmata handle serial
> > inputs?
> > marius.
> >
> > Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> >> Well, we are going to be using multiple sensors, so I will let you
> >> know if this code works with them, once we get to that phase of the
> >> installation.
> >> ~Kyle
> >> On 5/10/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it
> >>> would
> >>> awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just started
> >>> making the
> >>> Firmata protocol into a library so that people can write more
> >>> firmwares and
> >>> still use the same objects in the host software.  A multiple
> >>> ultrasound
> >>> sensor would be a great first test of this library, since it
> >>> would only need
> >>> to input data.
> >>>
> >>> .hc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> >>> Hello Kyle,
> >>>
> >>> I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your
> >>> project. I
> >>> guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that time, I just
> >>> modified his existing multi-sensor patches and developed them
> >>> further to use
> >>> in my project.
> >>>
> >>> Koray.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> >>> Media Lab,UIAH
> >>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> >>> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> >>> tel: +90 533 712 8245
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks so much Koray, it works great!
> >>>
> >>> I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
> >>> and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.
> >>>
> >>> I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
> >>> microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
> >>> firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library
> >>> either.
> >>> This helps us out a TON!
> >>>
> >>> ~Kyle
> >>>
> >>> On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Hello Kyle,
> >>>
> >>> Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors
> >>> (they might
> >>> have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just
> >>> sending to be
> >>> sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd
> >>> communication. I
> >>> didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.
> >>>
> >>> best,
> >>>
> >>> Koray.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> >>> Media Lab,UIAH
> >>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> >>> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> >>> tel: +90 533 712 8245
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Koray~
> >>>
> >>> I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the
> >>> parallax
> >>> PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd
> >>> patches
> >>> regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks in advance!
> >>>
> >>> ~Kyle
> >>>
> >>> On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> hello Hans,
> >>>
> >>> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the
> >>> stability
> >>> of the 

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-14 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner

You would just send the data as an analog value, which gives you 14- 
bits of resolution.  In the Arduino firmware, it would just take the  
values from the sensor and report them as a analog value using the  
Firmata protocol.  The [arduino] object already understands the  
Firmata protocol, so it would just see the data as any other analog  
message.

.hc

On May 10, 2007, at 10:38 PM, marius schebella wrote:

> I think the ultrasonic sensors send serial bytevalues and not an  
> analog value, correct? how can you connect them to the pduino? or  
> how can you connect even more of them. can firmata handle serial  
> inputs?
> marius.
>
> Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>> Well, we are going to be using multiple sensors, so I will let you
>> know if this code works with them, once we get to that phase of the
>> installation.
>> ~Kyle
>> On 5/10/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it  
>>> would
>>> awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just started  
>>> making the
>>> Firmata protocol into a library so that people can write more  
>>> firmwares and
>>> still use the same objects in the host software.  A multiple  
>>> ultrasound
>>> sensor would be a great first test of this library, since it  
>>> would only need
>>> to input data.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
>>> Hello Kyle,
>>>
>>> I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your  
>>> project. I
>>> guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that time, I just
>>> modified his existing multi-sensor patches and developed them  
>>> further to use
>>> in my project.
>>>
>>> Koray.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>>> Media Lab,UIAH
>>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>>> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
>>> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks so much Koray, it works great!
>>>
>>> I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
>>> and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.
>>>
>>> I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
>>> microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
>>> firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library  
>>> either.
>>> This helps us out a TON!
>>>
>>> ~Kyle
>>>
>>> On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Hello Kyle,
>>>
>>> Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors  
>>> (they might
>>> have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just  
>>> sending to be
>>> sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd  
>>> communication. I
>>> didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> Koray.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>>> Media Lab,UIAH
>>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>>> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
>>> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Koray~
>>>
>>> I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the  
>>> parallax
>>> PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd  
>>> patches
>>> regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> ~Kyle
>>>
>>> On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> hello Hans,
>>>
>>> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the  
>>> stability
>>> of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
>>> testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
>>> sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final  
>>> patches
>>> for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
>>> on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
>>> basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
>>> David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
>>> Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy- 
>>> to-
>>> use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X  
>>> users
>>> have problems with comport communication.
>>>
>>> Koray.
>>>
>>> -
>>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>>> Media Lab,
>>> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
>>> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
>>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>>> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
>>> tel: +358 40 754 8449
>>> fax: +358 9 75630 555
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>
 Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
 see how people are using various boards with Pd.

 I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
 including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
 I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [h

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-11 Thread Kyle Klipowicz
Yes, it seems better to code these microsecond pulses in the firmware
rather than letting Pd control this directly. Maybe at audio signal
rate this would be more satisfactory, I am not well-versed in this.

Our plan is to use 6 sensors, so we will attempt to modify the
existing ultrasound firmware to this end. I see no reason why it would
not work!

~Kyle

On 5/11/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This firmware reads 2 ultrasound sensors at the same time, I guess it might
> read more with a little adjustment in firmware. Firmata Ultrasound firmware
> will be really great, I remember we had this discussion earlier, and there
> was some sort of problem to code Pulse in Pd_firmware.pde so that we could
> read ultrasound sensors through [arduino] in PD. Looking forward to test
> this library!!!
>
> Koray.
>
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,UIAH
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 11, 2007, at 1:54 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
>
> Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it would
> awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just started making the
> Firmata protocol into a library so that people can write more firmwares and
> still use the same objects in the host software.  A multiple ultrasound
> sensor would be a great first test of this library, since it would only need
> to input data.
>
> .hc
>
> On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> Hello Kyle,
>
> I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your project. I
> guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that time, I just
> modified his existing multi-sensor patches and developed them further to use
> in my project.
>
> Koray.
>
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,UIAH
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
> Thanks so much Koray, it works great!
>
> I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
> and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.
>
> I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
> microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
> firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library either.
> This helps us out a TON!
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Kyle,
>
> Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors (they might
> have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just sending to be
> sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd communication. I
> didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.
>
> best,
>
> Koray.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,UIAH
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
> Hi Koray~
>
> I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the parallax
> PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd patches
> regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hello Hans,
>
> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the stability
> of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
> testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
> sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final patches
> for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
> on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
> basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
> David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
> Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy-to-
> use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X users
> have problems with comport communication.
>
> Koray.
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,
> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
> tel: +358 40 754 8449
> fax: +358 9 75630 555
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> >
> > Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> > see how people are using various boards with Pd.
> >
> > I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> > including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
> > I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
> > sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level abstractions
> > to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> > ran

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-11 Thread Koray Tahiroglu
This firmware reads 2 ultrasound sensors at the same time, I guess it  
might read more with a little adjustment in firmware. Firmata  
Ultrasound firmware will be really great, I remember we had this  
discussion earlier, and there was some sort of problem to code Pulse  
in Pd_firmware.pde so that we could read ultrasound sensors through  
[arduino] in PD. Looking forward to test this library!!!


Koray.



-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245





On May 11, 2007, at 1:54 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:



Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it  
would awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just  
started making the Firmata protocol into a library so that people  
can write more firmwares and still use the same objects in the host  
software.  A multiple ultrasound sensor would be a great first test  
of this library, since it would only need to input data.


.hc

On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:


Hello Kyle,

I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your  
project. I guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that  
time, I just modified his existing multi-sensor patches and  
developed them further to use in my project.


Koray.



-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245





On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:


Thanks so much Koray, it works great!

I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.

I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library  
either.

This helps us out a TON!

~Kyle

On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello Kyle,

Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors  
(they might
have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just  
sending to be
sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd  
communication. I

didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.

best,

Koray.





-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245






On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

Hi Koray~

I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the  
parallax
PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd  
patches

regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?

Thanks in advance!

~Kyle

On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hello Hans,

I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the  
stability

of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final  
patches

for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which  
actually

David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make  
easy-to-
use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X  
users

have problems with comport communication.

Koray.

-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,
University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
tel: +358 40 754 8449
fax: +358 9 75630 555


On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

>
> Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> see how people are using various boards with Pd.
>
> I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.   
Basically,
> I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit  
for
> sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level  
abstractions

> to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
> objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think  
the

> grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
> and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
>> December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as  
well as

>> self made sensors. And Arduino is an open source microcontroller
>> hardware, http://www.arduino.cc/
>>
>> cheers,
>> Koray.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-10 Thread marius schebella
I think the ultrasonic sensors send serial bytevalues and not an analog 
value, correct? how can you connect them to the pduino? or how can you 
connect even more of them. can firmata handle serial inputs?
marius.

Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> Well, we are going to be using multiple sensors, so I will let you
> know if this code works with them, once we get to that phase of the
> installation.
> 
> ~Kyle
> 
> On 5/10/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it would
>> awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just started making the
>> Firmata protocol into a library so that people can write more firmwares and
>> still use the same objects in the host software.  A multiple ultrasound
>> sensor would be a great first test of this library, since it would only need
>> to input data.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
>> Hello Kyle,
>>
>> I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your project. I
>> guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that time, I just
>> modified his existing multi-sensor patches and developed them further to use
>> in my project.
>>
>> Koray.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>> Media Lab,UIAH
>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
>> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>>
>> Thanks so much Koray, it works great!
>>
>> I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
>> and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.
>>
>> I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
>> microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
>> firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library either.
>> This helps us out a TON!
>>
>> ~Kyle
>>
>> On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hello Kyle,
>>
>> Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors (they might
>> have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just sending to be
>> sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd communication. I
>> didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Koray.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>> Media Lab,UIAH
>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
>> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>>
>> Hi Koray~
>>
>> I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the parallax
>> PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd patches
>> regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> ~Kyle
>>
>> On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> hello Hans,
>>
>> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the stability
>> of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
>> testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
>> sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final patches
>> for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
>> on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
>> basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
>> David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
>> Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy-to-
>> use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X users
>> have problems with comport communication.
>>
>> Koray.
>>
>> -
>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>> Media Lab,
>> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
>> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
>> tel: +358 40 754 8449
>> fax: +358 9 75630 555
>>
>>
>> On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>>> Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
>>> see how people are using various boards with Pd.
>>>
>>> I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
>>> including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
>>> I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
>>> sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level abstractions
>>> to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
>>> range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
>>> objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think the
>>> grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
>>> and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
>>>
 I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
 December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as well as
 self made sensors. And Ard

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-10 Thread Kyle Klipowicz
Well, we are going to be using multiple sensors, so I will let you
know if this code works with them, once we get to that phase of the
installation.

~Kyle

On 5/10/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it would
> awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just started making the
> Firmata protocol into a library so that people can write more firmwares and
> still use the same objects in the host software.  A multiple ultrasound
> sensor would be a great first test of this library, since it would only need
> to input data.
>
> .hc
>
>
> On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> Hello Kyle,
>
> I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your project. I
> guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that time, I just
> modified his existing multi-sensor patches and developed them further to use
> in my project.
>
> Koray.
>
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,UIAH
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
> Thanks so much Koray, it works great!
>
> I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
> and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.
>
> I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
> microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
> firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library either.
> This helps us out a TON!
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Kyle,
>
> Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors (they might
> have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just sending to be
> sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd communication. I
> didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.
>
> best,
>
> Koray.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,UIAH
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
> Hi Koray~
>
> I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the parallax
> PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd patches
> regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hello Hans,
>
> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the stability
> of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
> testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
> sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final patches
> for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
> on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
> basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
> David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
> Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy-to-
> use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X users
> have problems with comport communication.
>
> Koray.
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,
> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
> tel: +358 40 754 8449
> fax: +358 9 75630 555
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> >
> > Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> > see how people are using various boards with Pd.
> >
> > I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> > including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
> > I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
> > sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level abstractions
> > to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> > range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
> > objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think the
> > grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
> > and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
> >> December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as well as
> >> self made sensors. And Arduino is an open source microcontroller
> >> hardware, http://www.arduino.cc/
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Koray.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> There are also the arduino and wiring boards that talk nicely
> >>> with many progs.
> >>>
> >>
> >> -
> >> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> >> Media Lab,
> >> University of A

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-10 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


Does this firmware handle multiple ultrasound sensors?  If so, it  
would awesome to make a Firmata Ultrasound firmware.  I just started  
making the Firmata protocol into a library so that people can write  
more firmwares and still use the same objects in the host software.   
A multiple ultrasound sensor would be a great first test of this  
library, since it would only need to input data.


.hc

On May 10, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:


Hello Kyle,

I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your  
project. I guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that  
time, I just modified his existing multi-sensor patches and  
developed them further to use in my project.


Koray.



-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245





On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:


Thanks so much Koray, it works great!

I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.

I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library either.
This helps us out a TON!

~Kyle

On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello Kyle,

Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors  
(they might
have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just  
sending to be
sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd  
communication. I

didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.

best,

Koray.





-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245






On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

Hi Koray~

I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the  
parallax
PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd  
patches

regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?

Thanks in advance!

~Kyle

On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hello Hans,

I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the  
stability

of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final  
patches

for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy- 
to-
use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X  
users

have problems with comport communication.

Koray.

-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,
University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
tel: +358 40 754 8449
fax: +358 9 75630 555


On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

>
> Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> see how people are using various boards with Pd.
>
> I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
> I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
> sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level  
abstractions

> to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
> objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think the
> grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
> and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
>> December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as well as
>> self made sensors. And Arduino is an open source microcontroller
>> hardware, http://www.arduino.cc/
>>
>> cheers,
>> Koray.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> There are also the arduino and wiring boards that talk nicely
>>> with many progs.
>>>
>>
>> -
>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>> Media Lab,
>> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
>> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
>> tel: +358 40 754 8449
>> fax: +358 9 75630
555___
>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
>> listinfo/pd-list
>>
>
>
 
__

> __

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-10 Thread Koray Tahiroglu

Hello Kyle,

I am glad that those patches worked and helped you out with your  
project. I guess big thanks goes to Hans for them, cos during that  
time, I just modified his existing multi-sensor patches and developed  
them further to use in my project.


Koray.



-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245





On May 10, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:


Thanks so much Koray, it works great!

I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.

I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library either.
This helps us out a TON!

~Kyle

On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello Kyle,

Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors  
(they might
have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just  
sending to be
sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd  
communication. I

didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.

best,

Koray.





-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,UIAH
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
tel: +90 533 712 8245






On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

Hi Koray~

I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the  
parallax
PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd  
patches

regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?

Thanks in advance!

~Kyle

On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hello Hans,

I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the stability
of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final patches
for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy-to-
use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X users
have problems with comport communication.

Koray.

-
M.Koray Tahiroglu
Media Lab,
University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
tel: +358 40 754 8449
fax: +358 9 75630 555


On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

>
> Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> see how people are using various boards with Pd.
>
> I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
> I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
> sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level abstractions
> to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
> objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think the
> grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
> and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
>> December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as well as
>> self made sensors. And Arduino is an open source microcontroller
>> hardware, http://www.arduino.cc/
>>
>> cheers,
>> Koray.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> There are also the arduino and wiring boards that talk nicely
>>> with many progs.
>>>
>>
>> -
>> M.Koray Tahiroglu
>> Media Lab,
>> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
>> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
>> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
>> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
>> tel: +358 40 754 8449
>> fax: +358 9 75630
555___
>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
>> listinfo/pd-list
>>
>
>
_ 
_

> __
>
> "Terrorism is not an enemy.  It cannot be defeated.  It's a
> tactic.  It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night
> attacks and expect we're going to win that war.  We're not going to
> win the war on terrorism."
>   -
> retired U.S. Army general, William Odom
>


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.p

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-10 Thread Kyle Klipowicz
Thanks so much Koray, it works great!

I see you used the same Arduino code for the sensor as I had found,
and your Pd patch is very well-written and well-commented.

I appreciate this, because I did not want to try coding
microsecond-level events in Pd by porting the Arduino code and using
firmata, and I didn't want to use the SimpleMessaging library either.
This helps us out a TON!

~Kyle

On 5/8/07, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Kyle,
>
> Here I attach .pde files for arduino to read ultrasound sensors (they might
> have already there in the arduino sketchbook already, but just sending to be
> sure) and also modified Hans pd patches for arduino-pd communication. I
> didn't test them lately, but they used to be working fine.
>
> best,
>
> Koray.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,UIAH
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> tel: +358 50 939 02 33 ( in Finland only)
> tel: +90 533 712 8245
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2007, at 5:48 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
> Hi Koray~
>
> I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the parallax
> PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd patches
> regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hello Hans,
>
> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the stability
> of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
> testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
> sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final patches
> for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
> on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
> basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
> David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
> Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy-to-
> use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X users
> have problems with comport communication.
>
> Koray.
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,
> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
> tel: +358 40 754 8449
> fax: +358 9 75630 555
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> >
> > Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> > see how people are using various boards with Pd.
> >
> > I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> > including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
> > I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
> > sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level abstractions
> > to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> > range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
> > objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think the
> > grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
> > and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
> >> December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as well as
> >> self made sensors. And Arduino is an open source microcontroller
> >> hardware, http://www.arduino.cc/
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Koray.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> There are also the arduino and wiring boards that talk nicely
> >>> with many progs.
> >>>
> >>
> >> -
> >> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> >> Media Lab,
> >> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
> >> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
> >> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> >> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
> >> tel: +358 40 754 8449
> >> fax: +358 9 75630
> 555___
> >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
> >> listinfo/pd-list
> >>
> >
> >
> __
> > __
> >
> > "Terrorism is not an enemy.  It cannot be defeated.  It's a
> > tactic.  It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night
> > attacks and expect we're going to win that war.  We're not going to
> > win the war on terrorism."
> >   -
> > retired U.S. Army general, William Odom
> >
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (()()()(()))()()())(
> (())(())()(((
> ))(_

Re: [PD] Connection with sensors - new devices?

2007-05-07 Thread Kyle Klipowicz
Hi Koray~

I am working on a group project that involves Arduino and the parallax
PING ultrasonic sensors. Would you be willing to share your Pd patches
regarding this usage, as indicated in this email?

Thanks in advance!

~Kyle

On 12/22/05, Koray Tahiroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hello Hans,
>
> I made couple of test patches just to see the range and the stability
> of the values that I receive from sensors. At the moment, I am
> testing ultrasound sensor and also self made solar panel board
> sensor. After this weekend I will begin to construct my final patches
> for a gig that will be on 14th of January. I can upload the patches
> on PD site. During our Arduino+PD workshop two weeks ago, we
> basically started to develop your multi-sensor patch, which actually
> David had changed couple of things during a previous workshop in
> Vancouver. All in all i think it is such a nice idea to make easy-to-
> use framework for sensor boxes. Especially most of the Mac OS X users
> have problems with comport communication.
>
> Koray.
>
> -
> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> Media Lab,
> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
> tel: +358 40 754 8449
> fax: +358 9 75630 555
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 9:32 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> >
> > Do you have an patches that you are willing to share?  I want to
> > see how people are using various boards with Pd.
> >
> > I will be working a lot with sensor boards in the coming months,
> > including the Arduino, MultIO, and STEIM's junXionbox.  Basically,
> > I want to make an easy-to-use framework like the [hid] toolkit for
> > sensor boxes.  So basically, I'll be making high-level abstractions
> > to interface these boxes which output data in a floating point
> > range of 0-1.  That means you can then use all of the mapping
> > objects that I wrote for the [hid] toolkit.  Actually, I think the
> > grand plan will be to make a separate library of mapping objects,
> > and then librariess for HIDs, sensor boxes, etc.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Koray Tahiroglu wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I've been using arduino with PD heavily since the beginning of
> >> December, I am happy with the ready sensor connections as well as
> >> self made sensors. And Arduino is an open source microcontroller
> >> hardware, http://www.arduino.cc/
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Koray.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> There are also the arduino and wiring boards that talk nicely
> >>> with many progs.
> >>>
> >>
> >> -
> >> M.Koray Tahiroglu
> >> Media Lab,
> >> University of Art and Design Helsinki, TaiK
> >> Hameentie 135C 00560 Helsinki Finland
> >> http://mlab.uiah.fi/~korayt/
> >> http://purenoise.uiah.fi:8000/
> >> tel: +358 40 754 8449
> >> fax: +358 9 75630 555___
> >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
> >> listinfo/pd-list
> >>
> >
> > __
> > __
> >
> > "Terrorism is not an enemy.  It cannot be defeated.  It's a
> > tactic.  It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night
> > attacks and expect we're going to win that war.  We're not going to
> > win the war on terrorism."
> >   -
> > retired U.S. Army general, William Odom
> >
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(()()()(()))()()())(
(())(())()(((
))(__
_())(()))___
(((000)))oOO

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list