Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hi, I am about to buy one of these FireflyMV's. It's 350$ with shipping to california. Has anyone actually tried them? There is a new version with usb2.0, do any of you think it would be easier than 1394 to get these working under linux? best, J On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Martin Schied crini...@gmx.net wrote: hey all, Jaime Oliver schrieb: mmh, I don't really know about lengths. I think there is a limit to how long your firewire cable should be. I usually work with analog cameras in linux where cables can be long ad I capture with a pci card. I think a cheap option that I've seen working well with macs is the unibrain fire-i: http://www.unibrain.com/Products/VisionImg/Fire_i_DC.htm you can buy lenses and chain them, not more than 30fps though, J lengths between firewire 400 devices is usually 4.5m, but you can daisy chain them up to 16 times giving you 72 metres. it's not very recommendable to make long chains, as every plug may be a weak point in your chain. firewire 800 can have longer cables, but i don't know... Jack schrieb: Thanx for the reply. The models are too big for me. I need a smaller camera (something like a cube) because the installation must be discreet. Have you something else to suggest ? Chris : what do you think about Sony driver ? I can't use a PCI card because i will work with a macmini. ++ as manufacturer of small firewire cameras there's also point grey. I don't know exactly about cost, and didn't try them on my own but they often were recommended by people doing tracking, also being said they were affordable, especially the firefly mv which delivers 60...@640x480 and even higher frame rates at lower resolutions. that's what they say about macintosh (seems to work): http://www.ptgrey.com/support/kb/index.asp?a=4q=173 i also made tests with usb webcams (only on linux and windows), some with usable results but most of them are crap. to be usable they should support real usb2.0 for high frame rates at full sensor resolution (usually 640x480), without compression and have ccd sensors for better quality and light sensitivity. (finding out usb version and other technical stuff can be real pain from manufacruerer sites, usually you'll have to try them). image quality was always worse than cheap video cameras - but as an advantage they were not interlaced like usual consumer video cameras. cable lengths can be extended by usb hubs or repeater cables several times, but that's also the many-connectors - many errors thing @Jack: what exactly will your tracking method be based on? natural features? colors? markers? with some luck a cheap usb webcam could be good enough and also really small. (yeah, i'm a fan of using cheap consumer producs and having trouble with them - be warned) cheers, Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
did you get the full 125fps? On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:55 PM, jim cinet...@passport.ca wrote: I've tried the FireFly under Linux. It worked well. I don't remember if I tried it with PD/Gem but should be fine. I used Coriander http://damien.douxchamps.net/ieee1394/coriander/ to create a videoloopback device for V4L use. jim On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 23:02 -0700, Jaime Oliver wrote: Hi, I am about to buy one of these FireflyMV's. It's 350$ with shipping to california. Has anyone actually tried them? There is a new version with usb2.0, do any of you think it would be easier than 1394 to get these working under linux? best, J On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Martin Schied crini...@gmx.net wrote: hey all, Jaime Oliver schrieb: mmh, I don't really know about lengths. I think there is a limit to how long your firewire cable should be. I usually work with analog cameras in linux where cables can be long ad I capture with a pci card. I think a cheap option that I've seen working well with macs is the unibrain fire-i: http://www.unibrain.com/Products/VisionImg/Fire_i_DC.htm you can buy lenses and chain them, not more than 30fps though, J lengths between firewire 400 devices is usually 4.5m, but you can daisy chain them up to 16 times giving you 72 metres. it's not very recommendable to make long chains, as every plug may be a weak point in your chain. firewire 800 can have longer cables, but i don't know... Jack schrieb: Thanx for the reply. The models are too big for me. I need a smaller camera (something like a cube) because the installation must be discreet. Have you something else to suggest ? Chris : what do you think about Sony driver ? I can't use a PCI card because i will work with a macmini. ++ as manufacturer of small firewire cameras there's also point grey. I don't know exactly about cost, and didn't try them on my own but they often were recommended by people doing tracking, also being said they were affordable, especially the firefly mv which delivers 60...@640x480 and even higher frame rates at lower resolutions. that's what they say about macintosh (seems to work): http://www.ptgrey.com/support/kb/index.asp?a=4q=173 i also made tests with usb webcams (only on linux and windows), some with usable results but most of them are crap. to be usable they should support real usb2.0 for high frame rates at full sensor resolution (usually 640x480), without compression and have ccd sensors for better quality and light sensitivity. (finding out usb version and other technical stuff can be real pain from manufacruerer sites, usually you'll have to try them). image quality was always worse than cheap video cameras - but as an advantage they were not interlaced like usual consumer video cameras. cable lengths can be extended by usb hubs or repeater cables several times, but that's also the many-connectors - many errors thing @Jack: what exactly will your tracking method be based on? natural features? colors? markers? with some luck a cheap usb webcam could be good enough and also really small. (yeah, i'm a fan of using cheap consumer producs and having trouble with them - be warned) cheers, Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hello, I've try this camera. http://www.digistore.fr/camera-avec-enregistreur-atc3k-p-1986.html I've test it with canopus advc 55 to convert analog video stream but it's possible to get by usb i think... -- TNTB t'es in t'es bat 7 place Favier 13210 St Remy de Provence T/: 04 90 26 95 09 P/: 06 86 86 12 19 + http://www.tntb.net === ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hello David, Thanx for all this informations using an analogue camera. It's good to know there is FireWire extensions, but it is very expensive (245 pound sterling !). If i understand, the system is like this : Analogue camera with BNC - BNC baluns with power - cat 5 cable - composite baluns with power - composite to FireWire400 converter - FireWire400 to FireWire800 cable - MacMini - Pd/GEM ? I know that analogues cameras are good solutions, but with all this stuff, there is no risk of noise ? ;) (tell me if i'm wrong). ++` Jack Le 7 mars 09 à 06:18, David Kirkpatrick a écrit : Hi Jack, I've done a fair bit of this sort of thing before. The most useful setup i've found is: 1) Analogue monochrome CCTV camera. (Preferably with around 700 horizontal lines or so, very low lux, and self syncing) I use these. http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/CCS/monochrome% 20low%20light%20cctv%20dsp%20video%20camera.html You can then buy a C or CS lens that is the right angle for your situation. For roof mounted stuff I use an ultra-wide angle varifocal set to just before it noticably fisheyes. 2) Cat 5 balun connected to CCTV camera's analogue video output and power input. This allows signal to be sent, and power to be recieved via a single cheap UTP Cat 5 lead (i've gone 30 metres with no noticable image quality loss, supposedly you can go much further). Removes the need to run a mains power lead or coax lead to the camera so setup is quick and easy, and reduces time spent dangling from ladders. You can get sets of cat 5 baluns really cheap on ebay. 3) Second cat 5 balun, on the other end of the cat 5 lead, placed next to computer. Connect to a suitable power supply for your video camera, and connect signal to a near zero latency industrial firewire capture device such as a DFG/1394-1e. http:// www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/converters/dfg13941e/ This allows you to hook up to a to a desktop or laptop, including a mac mini. Then you're done. Just set Pd to listen to the DFG/1394-1e. Image will be clean and roughly equivalent to 720x576 res. This setup can also be modified to work with near infra-red light instead of visible light if you want to avoid detecting lighting changes as movement. Just tape three squares of primary red and congo blue gel in front of the camera lens. Set up a few PAR56s to flood the space with light. Add the same gel to the 56's as you did to the camera and it will block almost all visible light. People will glow bright white when viewed through the camera, but most other stuff in the space will be close to invisible. Alternately, if you want to use a firewire board camera, you can get something like a Lindy CAT5 FireWire Extender. They aren't cheap but they extend the maximum length of a firewire run from around 5m to 70m without quality loss. Regards, David Kirkpatrick Find car news, reviews and more Looking to change your car this year? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hi Jack, Yep, your chain is right. A minor difference is that I use two BNC baluns (one with a BNC to composite adaptor attached), but it should make very little difference. I also used a UTP cat 6 cable instead of cat 5, but I used cat 5 baluns. I've used this chain in multiple theatrical projects without noise issues, even with moving lights messing up the ambient light levels. Obviously you would have a dodgy signal if you ran the UTP cat 5 or 6 alongside a 3 phase lead or something, but apart from that you should be fine. I had the cat 6 lead running through a lighting grid full of 240V and it didn't degrade. It actually seemed cleaner than doing everything with coaxial cable. David Kirkpatrick CC: pd-list@iem.at From: j...@rybn.org Subject: Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:15:16 +0100 To: djk_1...@hotmail.com Hello David, Thanx for all this informations using an analogue camera. It's good to know there is FireWire extensions, but it is very expensive (245 pound sterling !). If i understand, the system is like this : Analogue camera with BNC - BNC baluns with power - cat 5 cable - composite baluns with power - composite to FireWire400 converter - FireWire400 to FireWire800 cable - MacMini - Pd/GEM ? I know that analogues cameras are good solutions, but with all this stuff, there is no risk of noise ? ;) (tell me if i'm wrong). ++` Jack Le 7 mars 09 à 06:18, David Kirkpatrick a écrit : Hi Jack, I've done a fair bit of this sort of thing before. The most useful setup i've found is: 1) Analogue monochrome CCTV camera. (Preferably with around 700 horizontal lines or so, very low lux, and self syncing) I use these. http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/CCS/monochrome%20low%20light%20cctv%20dsp%20video%20camera.html You can then buy a C or CS lens that is the right angle for your situation. For roof mounted stuff I use an ultra-wide angle varifocal set to just before it noticably fisheyes. 2) Cat 5 balun connected to CCTV camera's analogue video output and power input. This allows signal to be sent, and power to be recieved via a single cheap UTP Cat 5 lead (i've gone 30 metres with no noticable image quality loss, supposedly you can go much further). Removes the need to run a mains power lead or coax lead to the camera so setup is quick and easy, and reduces time spent dangling from ladders. You can get sets of cat 5 baluns really cheap on ebay. 3) Second cat 5 balun, on the other end of the cat 5 lead, placed next to computer. Connect to a suitable power supply for your video camera, and connect signal to a near zero latency industrial firewire capture device such as a DFG/1394-1e. http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/converters/dfg13941e/ This allows you to hook up to a to a desktop or laptop, including a mac mini. Then you're done. Just set Pd to listen to the DFG/1394-1e. Image will be clean and roughly equivalent to 720x576 res. This setup can also be modified to work with near infra-red light instead of visible light if you want to avoid detecting lighting changes as movement. Just tape three squares of primary red and congo blue gel in front of the camera lens. Set up a few PAR56s to flood the space with light. Add the same gel to the 56's as you did to the camera and it will block almost all visible light. People will glow bright white when viewed through the camera, but most other stuff in the space will be close to invisible. Alternately, if you want to use a firewire board camera, you can get something like a Lindy CAT5 FireWire Extender. They aren't cheap but they extend the maximum length of a firewire run from around 5m to 70m without quality loss. Regards, David Kirkpatrick Find car news, reviews and more Looking to change your car this year? _ View photos of singles in your area. Click Here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fchannel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid%3D1046247_t=773166080_r=Hotmail_Endtext_m=EXT ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Good ! Thanx a lot David. ++ Jack Le 7 mars 09 à 15:40, David Kirkpatrick a écrit : Hi Jack, Yep, your chain is right. A minor difference is that I use two BNC baluns (one with a BNC to composite adaptor attached), but it should make very little difference. I also used a UTP cat 6 cable instead of cat 5, but I used cat 5 baluns. I've used this chain in multiple theatrical projects without noise issues, even with moving lights messing up the ambient light levels. Obviously you would have a dodgy signal if you ran the UTP cat 5 or 6 alongside a 3 phase lead or something, but apart from that you should be fine. I had the cat 6 lead running through a lighting grid full of 240V and it didn't degrade. It actually seemed cleaner than doing everything with coaxial cable. David Kirkpatrick CC: pd-list@iem.at From: j...@rybn.org Subject: Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:15:16 +0100 To: djk_1...@hotmail.com Hello David, Thanx for all this informations using an analogue camera. It's good to know there is FireWire extensions, but it is very expensive (245 pound sterling !). If i understand, the system is like this : Analogue camera with BNC - BNC baluns with power - cat 5 cable - composite baluns with power - composite to FireWire400 converter - FireWire400 to FireWire800 cable - MacMini - Pd/GEM ? I know that analogues cameras are good solutions, but with all this stuff, there is no risk of noise ? ;) (tell me if i'm wrong). ++` Jack Le 7 mars 09 à 06:18, David Kirkpatrick a écrit : Hi Jack, I've done a fair bit of this sort of thing before. The most useful setup i've found is: 1) Analogue monochrome CCTV camera. (Preferably with around 700 horizontal lines or so, very low lux, and self syncing) I use these. http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/CCS/monochrome% 20low%20light%20cctv%20dsp%20video%20camera.html You can then buy a C or CS lens that is the right angle for your situation. For roof mounted stuff I use an ultra-wide angle varifocal set to just before it noticably fisheyes. 2) Cat 5 balun connected to CCTV camera's analogue video output and power input. This allows signal to be sent, and power to be recieved via a single cheap UTP Cat 5 lead (i've gone 30 metres with no noticable image quality loss, supposedly you can go much further). Removes the need to run a mains power lead or coax lead to the camera so setup is quick and easy, and reduces time spent dangling from ladders. You can get sets of cat 5 baluns really cheap on ebay. 3) Second cat 5 balun, on the other end of the cat 5 lead, placed next to computer. Connect to a suitable power supply for your video camera, and connect signal to a near zero latency industrial firewire capture device such as a DFG/1394-1e. http:// www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/converters/dfg13941e/ This allows you to hook up to a to a desktop or laptop, including a mac mini. Then you're done. Just set Pd to listen to the DFG/1394-1e. Image will be clean and roughly equivalent to 720x576 res. This setup can also be modified to work with near infra-red light instead of visible light if you want to avoid detecting lighting changes as movement. Just tape three squares of primary red and congo blue gel in front of the camera lens. Set up a few PAR56s to flood the space with light. Add the same gel to the 56's as you did to the camera and it will block almost all visible light. People will glow bright white when viewed through the camera, but most other stuff in the space will be close to invisible. Alternately, if you want to use a firewire board camera, you can get something like a Lindy CAT5 FireWire Extender. They aren't cheap but they extend the maximum length of a firewire run from around 5m to 70m without quality loss. Regards, David Kirkpatrick Find car news, reviews and more Looking to change your car this year? _ View photos of singles in your area. Click Here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Eninemsn% 2Ecom%2Eau%2Fchannel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid% 3D1046247_t=773166080_r=Hotmail_Endtext_m=EXT ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
hey all, Jaime Oliver schrieb: mmh, I don't really know about lengths. I think there is a limit to how long your firewire cable should be. I usually work with analog cameras in linux where cables can be long ad I capture with a pci card. I think a cheap option that I've seen working well with macs is the unibrain fire-i: http://www.unibrain.com/Products/VisionImg/Fire_i_DC.htm you can buy lenses and chain them, not more than 30fps though, J lengths between firewire 400 devices is usually 4.5m, but you can daisy chain them up to 16 times giving you 72 metres. it's not very recommendable to make long chains, as every plug may be a weak point in your chain. firewire 800 can have longer cables, but i don't know... Jack schrieb: Thanx for the reply. The models are too big for me. I need a smaller camera (something like a cube) because the installation must be discreet. Have you something else to suggest ? Chris : what do you think about Sony driver ? I can't use a PCI card because i will work with a macmini. ++ as manufacturer of small firewire cameras there's also point grey. I don't know exactly about cost, and didn't try them on my own but they often were recommended by people doing tracking, also being said they were affordable, especially the firefly mv which delivers 60...@640x480 and even higher frame rates at lower resolutions. that's what they say about macintosh (seems to work): http://www.ptgrey.com/support/kb/index.asp?a=4q=173 i also made tests with usb webcams (only on linux and windows), some with usable results but most of them are crap. to be usable they should support real usb2.0 for high frame rates at full sensor resolution (usually 640x480), without compression and have ccd sensors for better quality and light sensitivity. (finding out usb version and other technical stuff can be real pain from manufacruerer sites, usually you'll have to try them). image quality was always worse than cheap video cameras - but as an advantage they were not interlaced like usual consumer video cameras. cable lengths can be extended by usb hubs or repeater cables several times, but that's also the many-connectors - many errors thing @Jack: what exactly will your tracking method be based on? natural features? colors? markers? with some luck a cheap usb webcam could be good enough and also really small. (yeah, i'm a fan of using cheap consumer producs and having trouble with them - be warned) cheers, Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hello Martin and thanx for your reply, In fact, i need a camera to track people in a space (indoor). The camera will be on the ceiling. There is 5 meters between the ceiling and the floor. With the coordinates of people, i will turn on/off differents lamps on a statue placed in the center of the space. So i need a camera working on a MacMini with MacOSX.5 and Pd and GEM. The last MacMini has a FireWire 800 and 5 USB 2.0. I saw the point grey website, but i can't find price on it. However, they talk about 10 meters cable for FireWire 800. Do you know a model and its price ? Today, I tried a Unibrain Fire-i™ Digital Board Camera and it seems good (FireWire 400 : 89 euros + 19 euros with lens) But i never tried it in installation. ++ Jack Le 6 mars 09 à 18:06, Martin Schied a écrit : hey all, Jaime Oliver schrieb: mmh, I don't really know about lengths. I think there is a limit to how long your firewire cable should be. I usually work with analog cameras in linux where cables can be long ad I capture with a pci card. I think a cheap option that I've seen working well with macs is the unibrain fire-i: http://www.unibrain.com/Products/VisionImg/Fire_i_DC.htm you can buy lenses and chain them, not more than 30fps though, J lengths between firewire 400 devices is usually 4.5m, but you can daisy chain them up to 16 times giving you 72 metres. it's not very recommendable to make long chains, as every plug may be a weak point in your chain. firewire 800 can have longer cables, but i don't know... Jack schrieb: Thanx for the reply. The models are too big for me. I need a smaller camera (something like a cube) because the installation must be discreet. Have you something else to suggest ? Chris : what do you think about Sony driver ? I can't use a PCI card because i will work with a macmini. ++ as manufacturer of small firewire cameras there's also point grey. I don't know exactly about cost, and didn't try them on my own but they often were recommended by people doing tracking, also being said they were affordable, especially the firefly mv which delivers 60...@640x480 and even higher frame rates at lower resolutions. that's what they say about macintosh (seems to work): http://www.ptgrey.com/support/kb/index.asp?a=4q=173 i also made tests with usb webcams (only on linux and windows), some with usable results but most of them are crap. to be usable they should support real usb2.0 for high frame rates at full sensor resolution (usually 640x480), without compression and have ccd sensors for better quality and light sensitivity. (finding out usb version and other technical stuff can be real pain from manufacruerer sites, usually you'll have to try them). image quality was always worse than cheap video cameras - but as an advantage they were not interlaced like usual consumer video cameras. cable lengths can be extended by usb hubs or repeater cables several times, but that's also the many-connectors - many errors thing @Jack: what exactly will your tracking method be based on? natural features? colors? markers? with some luck a cheap usb webcam could be good enough and also really small. (yeah, i'm a fan of using cheap consumer producs and having trouble with them - be warned) cheers, Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
hi Jack, it's about $200 for the firefly mv. They somehow don't want their prices in public... I had a lower price in mind - maybe I mixed that up with the unibrain. I think for that application it's not necessary using higher frame rates. I tried simple movement detection and tracking in gem, using a low resolution 30fps picture and it was nice to play with, yet at low light. Martin Hello Martin and thanx for your reply, In fact, i need a camera to track people in a space (indoor). The camera will be on the ceiling. There is 5 meters between the ceiling and the floor. With the coordinates of people, i will turn on/off differents lamps on a statue placed in the center of the space. So i need a camera working on a MacMini with MacOSX.5 and Pd and GEM. The last MacMini has a FireWire 800 and 5 USB 2.0. I saw the point grey website, but i can't find price on it. However, they talk about 10 meters cable for FireWire 800. Do you know a model and its price ? Today, I tried a Unibrain Fire-i™ Digital Board Camera and it seems good (FireWire 400 : 89 euros + 19 euros with lens) But i never tried it in installation. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Ok, thanx a lot Martin. Now, i will think about which model is the most appropriate for my installation. ++ Jack Le 6 mars 09 à 23:48, Martin Schied a écrit : hi Jack, it's about $200 for the firefly mv. They somehow don't want their prices in public... I had a lower price in mind - maybe I mixed that up with the unibrain. I think for that application it's not necessary using higher frame rates. I tried simple movement detection and tracking in gem, using a low resolution 30fps picture and it was nice to play with, yet at low light. Martin Hello Martin and thanx for your reply, In fact, i need a camera to track people in a space (indoor). The camera will be on the ceiling. There is 5 meters between the ceiling and the floor. With the coordinates of people, i will turn on/off differents lamps on a statue placed in the center of the space. So i need a camera working on a MacMini with MacOSX.5 and Pd and GEM. The last MacMini has a FireWire 800 and 5 USB 2.0. I saw the point grey website, but i can't find price on it. However, they talk about 10 meters cable for FireWire 800. Do you know a model and its price ? Today, I tried a Unibrain Fire-i™ Digital Board Camera and it seems good (FireWire 400 : 89 euros + 19 euros with lens) But i never tried it in installation. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hi Jack, I've done a fair bit of this sort of thing before. The most useful setup i've found is: 1) Analogue monochrome CCTV camera. (Preferably with around 700 horizontal lines or so, very low lux, and self syncing) I use these. http://www.allthings.com.au/Catalogue/CCS/monochrome%20low%20light%20cctv%20dsp%20video%20camera.html You can then buy a C or CS lens that is the right angle for your situation. For roof mounted stuff I use an ultra-wide angle varifocal set to just before it noticably fisheyes. 2) Cat 5 balun connected to CCTV camera's analogue video output and power input. This allows signal to be sent, and power to be recieved via a single cheap UTP Cat 5 lead (i've gone 30 metres with no noticable image quality loss, supposedly you can go much further). Removes the need to run a mains power lead or coax lead to the camera so setup is quick and easy, and reduces time spent dangling from ladders. You can get sets of cat 5 baluns really cheap on ebay. 3) Second cat 5 balun, on the other end of the cat 5 lead, placed next to computer. Connect to a suitable power supply for your video camera, and connect signal to a near zero latency industrial firewire capture device such as a DFG/1394-1e. http://www.theimagingsource.com/en_US/products/converters/dfg13941e/ This allows you to hook up to a to a desktop or laptop, including a mac mini. Then you're done. Just set Pd to listen to the DFG/1394-1e. Image will be clean and roughly equivalent to 720x576 res. This setup can also be modified to work with near infra-red light instead of visible light if you want to avoid detecting lighting changes as movement. Just tape three squares of primary red and congo blue gel in front of the camera lens. Set up a few PAR56s to flood the space with light. Add the same gel to the 56's as you did to the camera and it will block almost all visible light. People will glow bright white when viewed through the camera, but most other stuff in the space will be close to invisible. Alternately, if you want to use a firewire board camera, you can get something like a Lindy CAT5 FireWire Extender. They aren't cheap but they extend the maximum length of a firewire run from around 5m to 70m without quality loss. Regards, David Kirkpatrick _ Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Thanks for your answer Chris. Do you know a specific model working with Pd and GEM on MacOSX ? ++ Jack Le 5 mars 09 à 18:54, chris clepper a écrit : Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
yeah, just make sure it is uncompressed fw to avoid latency. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:54 AM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Thanks Jaime, i start to understand. What is the length of FireWire cable for a Mac with FireWire 800 port can i use ? ++ Jack Le 5 mars 09 à 19:04, Jaime Oliver a écrit : yeah, just make sure it is uncompressed fw to avoid latency. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:54 AM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Sony Handycams are pretty good but you need to make sure that you can mount it on a tripod and charge it at the same time. I have had a lot of problems using some models of them, as the quality is excellent, they work with firewire but some models will only allow a firewire cable to be hooked up to it when it is in its charging dock. Make sure you avoid that... Conor On 5 Mar 2009, at 18:05, Jack wrote: Thanks for your answer Chris. Do you know a specific model working with Pd and GEM on MacOSX ? ++ Jack Le 5 mars 09 à 18:54, chris clepper a écrit : Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Latency is mostly affected by the device driver for any source. Even some of the professional capture boards have relatively high latency, but typically Firewire or USB based devices will have much higher processing time in the driver than an uncompressed PCIe card. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Jaime Oliver jaime.oliv...@gmail.comwrote: yeah, just make sure it is uncompressed fw to avoid latency. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:54 AM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
Thanx for the reply. The models are too big for me. I need a smaller camera (something like a cube) because the installation must be discreet. Have you something else to suggest ? Chris : what do you think about Sony driver ? I can't use a PCI card because i will work with a macmini. ++ Jack Le 5 mars 09 à 19:13, Conor Higgins a écrit : Sony Handycams are pretty good but you need to make sure that you can mount it on a tripod and charge it at the same time. I have had a lot of problems using some models of them, as the quality is excellent, they work with firewire but some models will only allow a firewire cable to be hooked up to it when it is in its charging dock. Make sure you avoid that... Conor On 5 Mar 2009, at 18:05, Jack wrote: Thanks for your answer Chris. Do you know a specific model working with Pd and GEM on MacOSX ? ++ Jack Le 5 mars 09 à 18:54, chris clepper a écrit : Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd/GEM and camera for tracking
mmh, I don't really know about lengths. I think there is a limit to how long your firewire cable should be. I usually work with analog cameras in linux where cables can be long ad I capture with a pci card. I think a cheap option that I've seen working well with macs is the unibrain fire-i: http://www.unibrain.com/Products/VisionImg/Fire_i_DC.htm you can buy lenses and chain them, not more than 30fps though, J On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Thanks Jaime, i start to understand.What is the length of FireWire cable for a Mac with FireWire 800 port can i use ? ++ Jack Le 5 mars 09 à 19:04, Jaime Oliver a écrit : yeah, just make sure it is uncompressed fw to avoid latency. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:54 AM, chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com wrote: Even the cheapest consumer DV camera will outperform industrial cameras costing thousands of dollars. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack j...@rybn.org wrote: Hello list, I'm looking for a good camera (FireWire or USB) working on MacOSX with Pd and GEM. This camera will be used to track people in a closed space with lights. Do you know a good model for this application (industrial camera ?) ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA -- Jaime E Oliver LR joliv...@ucsd.edu www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 858 202 1522 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
