Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Hello Batuhan (tekrar merhaba indeed) PD internal messages will even let you create your objects, connect them each other, create abstractions and so on not only through another PD patch, but through your terminal window as well. You can create your custom toolbox with bunch of abstractions and load them into your patches and you dont need any javascript either. As they mentioned earlier in the list DesireData will be definitely your choice and next test release will ( hopefully) have Turkish language choice as well:) Koray. >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:56:59 +0300 >From: Batuhan Bozkurt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox >To: pd-list@iem.at >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > >> pat wrote: >>> Batuhan Bozkurt a ?crit : >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before >>>> I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. >>>> But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and >>>> after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature >>>> that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". >>>> >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Batuhan >>> >>> hello, you might be interested about this: >>> >>> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData >>> >>> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro >>> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. >>> >> Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. >> But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first release >> in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better than >> anything for sure! >> >> So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any other >> suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I >> mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then >> I'll have to wait for sure. > > I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the > same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. > I think you could get some of those features working without too much > hassle. > > .hc > > > >Yes, they are a set of patches but they are all implemented in max >"javascript" objects and they exploit the dynamic patch creation >possibilities of Max/MSP as you can create patches with scripting in >there, realtime. >Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript but >some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" facility? >If there is a way of connecting two objects together with a cable by >patching, and without actually drawing the connection by mouse then I'm >sure it will be fairly easy to do it. But I'm not aware of something >giving that possibility to me. Is there any? >Batuhan - Koray Tahiroglu ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Check the pd-msg docs in CVS or in Pd-extended in Help->Browser- >manuals->pd-msg for info on dynamic patch creation with Pd internal messages. Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to get info on the objects that are currently selected. Something like object numbers and x,y location. With that info, it would be possible in Pd space. .hc On Sep 10, 2007, at 6:17 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote: Starting from scratch (an empty patch) you can do it with internal messages. But with a currently build patch it is not possible now. Tom On 9/10/07, Kyle Klipowicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As far as I can tell, you can do this with internal messages to Pd. Am I off base here? ~Kyle On 9/10/07, Batuhan Bozkurt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > > > >> pat wrote: > >>> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : > Hello, > > I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before > I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. > But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and > after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature > that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". > > >>> > Thanks, > Batuhan > >>> > >>> hello, you might be interested about this: > >>> > >>> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData > >>> > >>> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro > >>> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. > >>> > >> Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. > >> But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first release > >> in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better than > >> anything for sure! > >> > >> So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any other > >> suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I > >> mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then > >> I'll have to wait for sure. > > > > I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the > > same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. > > I think you could get some of those features working without too much > > hassle. > > > > .hc > > > > > > > Yes, they are a set of patches but they are all implemented in max > "javascript" objects and they exploit the dynamic patch creation > possibilities of Max/MSP as you can create patches with scripting in > there, realtime. > > Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript but > some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" facility? > > If there is a way of connecting two objects together with a cable by > patching, and without actually drawing the connection by mouse then I'm > sure it will be fairly easy to do it. But I'm not aware of something > giving that possibility to me. Is there any? > > Batuhan > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list > -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- thomas ouellet fredericks, [EMAIL PROTECTED], montreal, canada ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
WHAT! I did not know tot could do that! Surprise, surprise! Thanks Patrice. I could build an object toolbar with that! Tom On 9/10/07, Patrice Colet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > On 9/10/07, Batuhan Bozkurt <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript > but > > > some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" > > facility? > > > > > This is possible indeed with the [tot]'s capture option. See > tot-monkey.pd in toxy's doc, and look what it does in edit mode, ;). > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- thomas ouellet fredericks, [EMAIL PROTECTED], montreal, canada ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Hi, > On 9/10/07, Batuhan Bozkurt <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript but > > some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" > facility? > > This is possible indeed with the [tot]'s capture option. See tot-monkey.pd in toxy's doc, and look what it does in edit mode, ;). ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Starting from scratch (an empty patch) you can do it with internal messages. But with a currently build patch it is not possible now. Tom On 9/10/07, Kyle Klipowicz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As far as I can tell, you can do this with internal messages to Pd. Am > I off base here? > > ~Kyle > > On 9/10/07, Batuhan Bozkurt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > > > On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > > > > > >> pat wrote: > > >>> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : > > Hello, > > > > I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right > before > > I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. > > But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and > > after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature > > that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". > > > > >>> > > Thanks, > > Batuhan > > >>> > > >>> hello, you might be interested about this: > > >>> > > >>> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData > > >>> > > >>> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro > > >>> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. > > >>> > > >> Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about > it. > > >> But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first > release > > >> in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better > than > > >> anything for sure! > > >> > > >> So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any > other > > >> suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I > > >> mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then > > >> I'll have to wait for sure. > > > > > > I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the > > > same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. > > > I think you could get some of those features working without too much > > > hassle. > > > > > > .hc > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, they are a set of patches but they are all implemented in max > > "javascript" objects and they exploit the dynamic patch creation > > possibilities of Max/MSP as you can create patches with scripting in > > there, realtime. > > > > Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript but > > some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" > facility? > > > > If there is a way of connecting two objects together with a cable by > > patching, and without actually drawing the connection by mouse then I'm > > sure it will be fairly easy to do it. But I'm not aware of something > > giving that possibility to me. Is there any? > > > > Batuhan > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > -- > - > > - > - -- > http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com > http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- thomas ouellet fredericks, [EMAIL PROTECTED], montreal, canada ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
As far as I can tell, you can do this with internal messages to Pd. Am I off base here? ~Kyle On 9/10/07, Batuhan Bozkurt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > > > >> pat wrote: > >>> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : > Hello, > > I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before > I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. > But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and > after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature > that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". > > >>> > Thanks, > Batuhan > >>> > >>> hello, you might be interested about this: > >>> > >>> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData > >>> > >>> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro > >>> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. > >>> > >> Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. > >> But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first release > >> in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better than > >> anything for sure! > >> > >> So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any other > >> suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I > >> mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then > >> I'll have to wait for sure. > > > > I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the > > same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. > > I think you could get some of those features working without too much > > hassle. > > > > .hc > > > > > > > Yes, they are a set of patches but they are all implemented in max > "javascript" objects and they exploit the dynamic patch creation > possibilities of Max/MSP as you can create patches with scripting in > there, realtime. > > Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript but > some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" facility? > > If there is a way of connecting two objects together with a cable by > patching, and without actually drawing the connection by mouse then I'm > sure it will be fairly easy to do it. But I'm not aware of something > giving that possibility to me. Is there any? > > Batuhan > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > >> pat wrote: >>> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : Hello, I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". >>> Thanks, Batuhan >>> >>> hello, you might be interested about this: >>> >>> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData >>> >>> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro >>> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. >>> >> Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. >> But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first release >> in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better than >> anything for sure! >> >> So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any other >> suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I >> mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then >> I'll have to wait for sure. > > I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the > same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. > I think you could get some of those features working without too much > hassle. > > .hc > > > Yes, they are a set of patches but they are all implemented in max "javascript" objects and they exploit the dynamic patch creation possibilities of Max/MSP as you can create patches with scripting in there, realtime. Is there any facility like this in PD? Not necessarily javascript but some sort of "controlling patches structure from another patch" facility? If there is a way of connecting two objects together with a cable by patching, and without actually drawing the connection by mouse then I'm sure it will be fairly easy to do it. But I'm not aware of something giving that possibility to me. Is there any? Batuhan ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
I think to implement it we would need new externals to provide better access to the window(patche) contents,names and such... Tom On 9/10/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > > > pat wrote: > >> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before > >>> I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. > >>> But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and > >>> after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature > >>> that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". > >>> > >> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Batuhan > >> > >> hello, you might be interested about this: > >> > >> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData > >> > >> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro > >> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. > >> > > Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. > > But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first > > release > > in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better > > than > > anything for sure! > > > > So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any > > other > > suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I > > mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then > > I'll have to wait for sure. > > I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the > same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. > I think you could get some of those features working without too much > hassle. > > .hc > > > > > > Thanks! > > Batuhan > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > > listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is > related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- thomas ouellet fredericks, [EMAIL PROTECTED], montreal, canada ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
On Sep 9, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > pat wrote: >> Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : >>> Hello, >>> >>> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before >>> I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. >>> But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and >>> after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature >>> that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". >>> >> >>> Thanks, >>> Batuhan >> >> hello, you might be interested about this: >> >> http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData >> >> in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro >> feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. >> > Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. > But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first > release > in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better > than > anything for sure! > > So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any > other > suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I > mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then > I'll have to wait for sure. I believe that the Max Toolbox is a set of Max patches. I think the same thing should be possible to implement using Pd patches as well. I think you could get some of those features working without too much hassle. .hc > > Thanks! > Batuhan > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
pat wrote: > Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : >> Hello, >> >> I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before >> I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. >> But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and >> after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature >> that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". >> > >> Thanks, >> Batuhan > > hello, you might be interested about this: > > http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData > > in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro > feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. > Thanks! In fact I know about desiredata and I'm VERY excited about it. But it is still alpha and project seems halfway behind the first release in timeline. But when it is finished, it's gonna make things better than anything for sure! So the only feasible option for me is to wait? Or do you have any other suggestions for me? I can live much better with this simple hack I mentioned actually, but if it is so hard to implement by myself then I'll have to wait for sure. Thanks! Batuhan ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Batuhan Bozkurt a écrit : > Hello, > > I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I > switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But > there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after > all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was > made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". > > Thanks, > Batuhan hello, you might be interested about this: http://www.piksel.no/pwiki/DesireData in fact I believe after a discussion with a max user that the macro feature of desiredata makes it better than max with toolbox. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
You'll want to check out Desire Data, (it's alpha though). Lots of great ideas in it. .hc On Sep 9, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt wrote: > Hello, > > I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I > switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But > there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after > all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was > made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". > > It basically allows you to use your keyboard to connect objects to > each > other. For example, if you select n number of objects alligned from > top > to bottom and press "c", all of their left inlets and outlets will be > connected in the same "top to bottom" fashion. There are also shortcut > keys for connecting an outlet to multiple inlets of another object > (these > all work from top to bottom) and vice versa and bunch of other > features. > I only miss the "c" shortcut and these "outlet to multiple ins and > inverse of it" features actually. Extensive mousing makes me feel > uncomfortable and sometimes causes pain so those shortcuts were making > my life a lot easier. > > I have some programming experience but they were always personal > projects and I don't think I can understand PD internals well(C code). > To achieve such functionality in PD what would my options be? I think > all the gui is handled in pd.tk file with Tcl/Tk(I may be badly > mistaken > though) so would this be a matter of adding some stuff to tickle > scripts? Or is it impossible to do without patching the C code? If > I can > find a feasible way to do it, I might work on it as the practicality > that is gonna bring would be very huge(for me anyways). > > Any clues on the possibility of this addition? > Here is the youtube video of the max toolbox thingy: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqF9hDNoJk > > I'm pretty sure that most of you know about that but if you've never > heard of it, then there is the link. > > Thanks, > Batuhan > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Simple PD GUI enhancement - like Max Toolbox
Hello, I've made the switch from Max/MSP to PD 1-1.5 years ago right before I switched my OS to linux and I'm loving almost every moment of it. But there is only one thing I got used to while I was using Max and after all those months of PD programming, I still miss that feature that was made possible with a js addition called "max toolbox". It basically allows you to use your keyboard to connect objects to each other. For example, if you select n number of objects alligned from top to bottom and press "c", all of their left inlets and outlets will be connected in the same "top to bottom" fashion. There are also shortcut keys for connecting an outlet to multiple inlets of another object(these all work from top to bottom) and vice versa and bunch of other features. I only miss the "c" shortcut and these "outlet to multiple ins and inverse of it" features actually. Extensive mousing makes me feel uncomfortable and sometimes causes pain so those shortcuts were making my life a lot easier. I have some programming experience but they were always personal projects and I don't think I can understand PD internals well(C code). To achieve such functionality in PD what would my options be? I think all the gui is handled in pd.tk file with Tcl/Tk(I may be badly mistaken though) so would this be a matter of adding some stuff to tickle scripts? Or is it impossible to do without patching the C code? If I can find a feasible way to do it, I might work on it as the practicality that is gonna bring would be very huge(for me anyways). Any clues on the possibility of this addition? Here is the youtube video of the max toolbox thingy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqF9hDNoJk I'm pretty sure that most of you know about that but if you've never heard of it, then there is the link. Thanks, Batuhan ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
