Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
2012/3/9 Mathieu Bouchard > I meant myself, for example - and everyone who doesn't do Pd fulltime, thus cannot really afford to learn using the more complicated parts/methods. So to say, the barriers to entry shall be kept low. >>> > Nearly none of the Pd professionals use Pd «fulltime». >>> >> > Yeah. The question is, do you understand the point I was trying to make >> with my less professional English? Then I'm also interested if you agree >> with it. >> > > I don't necessarily... « à temps plein » or « full time » means as a main > occupation. The definition is variable, but in my country, this is normally > assumed to mean 30 hours per week in a sustained way, especially 50 weeks > per year. Even when including all the non-patching activities that revolve > around Pd or mostly-Pd projects, very few Pd professionals put that much > time in Pd. Are there any at all ? > Yea, this is what we call in our wonderfully expressive Hungarian language "szőrszálhasogatás" http://hunglish.hu/search?huSentence=sz%C5%91rsz%C3%A1lhasogat%C3%A1s&enSentence=&doc.genre=-10 :o) > > If you don't mean that, then it's probably not a matter of your skills of > English, but rather about stating your opinion precisely enough. > Quite possible, really. > > But yes, I agree with what I think that you are saying. But I think that > there is a continuüm of time investment that gradually makes the learning > more worth the effort, and it begins at a tiny amount of part-time such as > just a few hours per week. > I'll try to elaborate more my original point. Phenomena like Pd have kind of "low end" (which is where that barrier of entry is), those parts/applications which are easy to understand and to hack by beginners or amateurs. Then they have a certain "high end", the more advanced topics within - e.g. dynamic patching for me, or libPd according to Julian. Now, someone can fear that the focus of developments could move towards the "high end", leaving simple folks increasingly frustrated. I don't share, but I think I can understand that fear, and my point was that Pd shall keep the "low end" accessible and up-to-date. (IMO, a helpful UI is one factor, good help system and tutorials are another, etc.) András ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
I meant myself, for example - and everyone who doesn't do Pd fulltime, thus cannot really afford to learn using the more complicated parts/methods. So to say, the barriers to entry shall be kept low. Nearly none of the Pd professionals use Pd «fulltime». Yeah. The question is, do you understand the point I was trying to make with my less professional English? Then I'm also interested if you agree with it. I don't necessarily... « à temps plein » or « full time » means as a main occupation. The definition is variable, but in my country, this is normally assumed to mean 30 hours per week in a sustained way, especially 50 weeks per year. Even when including all the non-patching activities that revolve around Pd or mostly-Pd projects, very few Pd professionals put that much time in Pd. Are there any at all ? If you don't mean that, then it's probably not a matter of your skills of English, but rather about stating your opinion precisely enough. But yes, I agree with what I think that you are saying. But I think that there is a continuüm of time investment that gradually makes the learning more worth the effort, and it begins at a tiny amount of part-time such as just a few hours per week. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
2012/3/9 Mathieu Bouchard > Le 2012-03-09 à 17:08:00, András Murányi a écrit : > > > I meant myself, for example - and everyone who doesn't do Pd fulltime, >> thus cannot really afford to learn using the more complicated >> parts/methods. So to say, the barriers to entry shall be kept low. >> > > Nearly none of the Pd professionals use Pd «fulltime». > > Yeah. The question is, do you understand the point I was trying to make with my less professional English? Then I'm also interested if you agree with it. András ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
Le 2012-03-09 à 17:08:00, András Murányi a écrit : I meant myself, for example - and everyone who doesn't do Pd fulltime, thus cannot really afford to learn using the more complicated parts/methods. So to say, the barriers to entry shall be kept low. Nearly none of the Pd professionals use Pd «fulltime». __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
2012/3/9 alex > 2012/3/9 András Murányi : > > I can see your point concerning O'reilly and even with libpd but I'm > > convinced the threat is far from the need > > of four-letter words. Pd's editing and programming features shall stay > open > > and continue to support the less professional and then all will be good. > > What does "less professional" mean here? > > alex > I meant myself, for example - and everyone who doesn't do Pd fulltime, thus cannot really afford to learn using the more complicated parts/methods. So to say, the barriers to entry shall be kept low. András ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
2012/3/9 András Murányi : > I can see your point concerning O'reilly and even with libpd but I'm > convinced the threat is far from the need > of four-letter words. Pd's editing and programming features shall stay open > and continue to support the less professional and then all will be good. What does "less professional" mean here? alex ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:42, Julian Brooks wrote: > > Just sent this to the eightycolumn list. I'm not going to even read any > of the messages from the original post. I'm Sorry, ok. > > > Oh dear... > > > "I am guessing you are pointing to the fact that libpd encourages the > production of proprietary software and their distribution on closed apps > markets?" > > > Yes absolutely, plus the whole > iThing-planetary-destruction-not-really-what-I-thought-'we'-are > working-towards-type-stuff (idealistic idiot that I am). > > Also seems like such a clear distinction between OSSvsFSF/FLOSS stuff. > Yes I can see that on one side what's wrong with libpd sucking the core out > of Pd and doing what they want, that's what the license/gift allows people > to do. Then after that I guess it's also okay for the author to get on the > pd-list with a 'buy my book' schtick (plus then a large cue of people > saying how happy they are to get their amazon order in now; kindle version > yours for £10, ebook an extra 2.50 even if you've bought the book - grrr), > can you see where this is going? > > So yes, then some guy from the publisher posting a link to an online > review and 'hey pd's kewl man' tipped me over the edge. > > Yes it's dumb > Yes I'm going to spend the rest of the day cringing and apologising > Yes I've recently stopped smoking and am somewhat psychotic. > > I know what you are talking about. I really underestimated the power of the dark side until I stopped cigarettes (cca a year ago). Typically, I had lost my patience towards a number of things and demonstrated unacceptable behaviour on a daily basis for a few weeks until it got better (but my body thanked for it from the fist day on). Plus at the end you'll mood will be more balanced than it used to be with the cigarettes. Forza, coraggio! :o) I can see your point concerning O'reilly and even with libpd but I'm convinced the threat is far from the need of four-letter words. Pd's editing and programming features shall stay open and continue to support the less professional and then all will be good. András ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
the problem with cigarettes is being able to make your own. the same thing applies on software, as i see. 2012/3/9 mark edward grimm > > long as you don't smoke too many > > One is to many and a thousand is never enough. > > > > On Mar 9, 2012, at 7:55 AM, i go bananas wrote: > > > smoking isn't really THAT bad. as long as you don't smoke too many, it > just raises your odds on diseases that have pretty low odds anyway, > > > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- Pierre-Yves Fave 0612994425 http://www.5data.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
> long as you don't smoke too many One is to many and a thousand is never enough. On Mar 9, 2012, at 7:55 AM, i go bananas wrote: > smoking isn't really THAT bad. as long as you don't smoke too many, it just > raises your odds on diseases that have pretty low odds anyway, > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
smoking isn't really THAT bad. as long as you don't smoke too many, it just raises your odds on diseases that have pretty low odds anyway, ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Web Netiquette Re: Making Musical Apps: a book about libpd
Just sent this to the eightycolumn list. I'm not going to even read any of the messages from the original post. I'm Sorry, ok. Oh dear... "I am guessing you are pointing to the fact that libpd encourages the production of proprietary software and their distribution on closed apps markets?" Yes absolutely, plus the whole iThing-planetary-destruction-not-really-what-I-thought-'we'-are working-towards-type-stuff (idealistic idiot that I am). Also seems like such a clear distinction between OSSvsFSF/FLOSS stuff. Yes I can see that on one side what's wrong with libpd sucking the core out of Pd and doing what they want, that's what the license/gift allows people to do. Then after that I guess it's also okay for the author to get on the pd-list with a 'buy my book' schtick (plus then a large cue of people saying how happy they are to get their amazon order in now; kindle version yours for £10, ebook an extra 2.50 even if you've bought the book - grrr), can you see where this is going? So yes, then some guy from the publisher posting a link to an online review and 'hey pd's kewl man' tipped me over the edge. Yes it's dumb Yes I'm going to spend the rest of the day cringing and apologising Yes I've recently stopped smoking and am somewhat psychotic. Probably would have been better to have gone for a walk or something. Anyway, onwards eh, Julian ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
