Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Morgan Packard]

Thanks Ed.
Yes, it is indeed simple-looking. But simply editing that file by hand
doesn't do me much good. I'd want the power of scripting -- loops,
variables, conditionals, to generate such a thing for me.
-Morgan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Ed Kelly  wrote:

> Load a PD patch in a text editor and take a look.
> Ed
>
> Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!
> Metastudio 3 still available at http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
>
>
> --
> *From:* Morgan Packard 
>
> *To:* pd-list@iem.at
> *Sent:* Thu, 3 February, 2011 6:35:19
> *Subject:* [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides
> the graphical editor?
>
> Hello there.
> I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time
> with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with
> the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my
> patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch
> generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted
> such a thing.
> thanks,
> -Morgan
>
> --
> 
> Web:
> http://www.morganpackard.com
>
> Music/Art:
> Latest album: Moment Again 
> Elsewhere
> iOS app Thicket 
> available on iTunes 
> store
> .
> 
>
>
>


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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Bernardo Barros]

2011/2/3 Morgan Packard :
>SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of
> those is an option for me.

For legal reasons? If it's your own project, consider the option
charging for your work, you just have to make your modifications
available. Or because they don't on phones? I'm not sure it's stable
enough, but take a look in the SC ports for android and iphone.

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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches

[Andrew Faraday]

I'm a Pd'er turned rubyist, this looks like something I might one day seriously 
want to do ('course I might not, it depends if there's anything cool you can do 
with it. Also, I'm doing a talk on PD to the local ruby users group in a couple 
of weeks time, which means this might be an interesting way to break the ice. 
Also, the pd-projects github, can't believe I didn't find that before but it 
could get rather helpful.
cheers
Andrew

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:22:25 -0500
From: ma...@artengine.ca
To: bbakersm...@gmail.com
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches

On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:
 
> I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what 
> you're looking for.
> https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata
 
That is about 0,1 % of Pd reimplemented in Ruby. It has no code nor any 
API in common with neither the pd 
vanilla/extended/devel/gui-rewrite/l20rk/desiredata branches, nor with 
zengarden. It's a completely unrelated thing.
 
So little has been implemented, that unless you're a huge Ruby fan seeking 
to rewrite the whole of PureData in Ruby, you shouldn't be trying to touch 
this project.
 
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Ed Kelly]

Load a PD patch in a text editor and take a look.
Ed

 Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!
Metastudio 3 still available at http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata





From: Morgan Packard 
To: pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Thu, 3 February, 2011 6:35:19
Subject: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the 
graphical editor?

Hello there.
I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with 
code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the 
graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my 
patches 
using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation 
tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing.
thanks,
-Morgan

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http://www.morganpackard.com

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iOS app Thicketavailable on iTunes store.




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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches

[Morgan Packard]

unless you're a huge Ruby fan seeking to rewrite the whole of PureData in
Ruby, you shouldn't be trying to touch this project

That would be a very inaccurate description of me. I'm closer to being a
circus bear in a tutu than that :)

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Mathieu Bouchard  wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:
>
>  I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what
>> you're looking for.
>> https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata
>>
>
> That is about 0,1 % of Pd reimplemented in Ruby. It has no code nor any API
> in common with neither the pd
> vanilla/extended/devel/gui-rewrite/l20rk/desiredata branches, nor with
> zengarden. It's a completely unrelated thing.
>
> So little has been implemented, that .
>




>
>  ___
> | Mathieu Bouchard  tél: +1.514.383.3801  Villeray, Montréal, QC




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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:


I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what you're 
looking for.
https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata


That is about 0,1 % of Pd reimplemented in Ruby. It has no code nor any 
API in common with neither the pd 
vanilla/extended/devel/gui-rewrite/l20rk/desiredata branches, nor with 
zengarden. It's a completely unrelated thing.


So little has been implemented, that unless you're a huge Ruby fan seeking 
to rewrite the whole of PureData in Ruby, you shouldn't be trying to touch 
this project.


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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches

[Morgan Packard]

Thanks Ben.
This looks like a way to manupalate PD while it's running. I'm looking for a
way to create patch files.
-Morgan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:

> I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what
> you're looking for.
> https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata
>
>> Thanks IOHannes,
>> I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps.
>> For
>> legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't
>> viable
>> for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for
>> ways
>> to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach
>> to
>> creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't
>> a
>> more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches
>> with
>> code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of
>> those is an option for me.
>> -Morgan
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
>> > > Hello there.
>> > > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of
>> time
>> > > with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved
>> > with
>> > > the graphical programming language!
>> >
>> > well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
>> > is probably a not so good choice for you.
>> >
>> > > I'd be much more comfortable creating my
>> > > patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD
>> > patch
>> > > generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's
>> wanted
>> > > such a thing.
>> >
>> > there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
>> > from whatever environment you prefer.
>> > nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
>> > such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
>> > the steep hills of learning Pd.
>> >
>> >
>> > just my 2?.
>> >
>> > fgmasdr
>> > IOhannes
>> >
>> >
>> > PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
>> > "python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
>> > functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
>> > reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
>> > more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
>> > replace the graphical part.
>> >
>> > PPS: i might as well miss the point
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>> >
>> > iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG
>> > V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7
>> > =0Dku
>> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> >
>> >
>>
>


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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches

[Ben Baker-Smith]

I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what
you're looking for.
https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata

> Thanks IOHannes,
> I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For
> legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't
> viable
> for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for
> ways
> to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to
> creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a
> more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches
> with
> code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of
> those is an option for me.
> -Morgan
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> wrote:
>
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
> > > Hello there.
> > > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of
> time
> > > with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved
> > with
> > > the graphical programming language!
> >
> > well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
> > is probably a not so good choice for you.
> >
> > > I'd be much more comfortable creating my
> > > patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD
> > patch
> > > generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's
> wanted
> > > such a thing.
> >
> > there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
> > from whatever environment you prefer.
> > nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
> > such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
> > the steep hills of learning Pd.
> >
> >
> > just my 2?.
> >
> > fgmasdr
> > IOhannes
> >
> >
> > PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
> > "python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
> > functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
> > reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
> > more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
> > replace the graphical part.
> >
> > PPS: i might as well miss the point
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG
> > V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7
> > =0Dku
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
>
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Tedb0t wrote:


I don't know if anyone has already created a (scripting) tool specifically for 
generating pd patch files?


I made several, over the years. GridFlow's class index is generated by a 
Tcl script. My jmax-to-pd patch conversion tool was written in Ruby. The 
numop-table and type-table patches of GridFlow were generated by Tcl 
scripts. There might be a few other scripts that I don't remember.


What kind of tool do you have in mind ?

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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Morgan Packard]

And I forgot too! (along with accidentally writing "hit tedbot" instead of
"hi tedbot" in my original reply. I definitely meant the latter, not the
former!)

Hi Tedb0t,
#2 is definitely what I'm interested in. It does look pretty simple to roll
my own. But if someone had already created a nice tool to do this, I'd
prefer that. In particular, it seems that putting proper constraints on the
final file would be nice. For example, the gui editor doesn't permit me to
connect the output of an "osc" to the input of a "bang". It would be nice to
have a similar limitation in the hypothetical script-based tool we're
discussing.
-Morgan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Tedb0t  wrote:

> Whoops, just realized I hadn't replied to the list:
>
> It seems to me that there are two ways to maybe? accomplish what you're
> describing:
>
> 1) what I've explored fairly deeply is using the pd "internal messages" to
> create objects in a running patch from a python script over a socket
> connection.  There's a library someone made that handles this that I can't
> remember the name of right now (anyone?) but I also wrote a basic thing
> here: https://github.com/virgildisgr4ce/PureeData
>
> 2) can you write the patch file from a script and then load it?  If you
> haven't looked into it yet, the syntax is pretty basic.
>
> ±±±t3db0t
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Morgan Packard wrote:
>
> Thanks IOHannes,
> I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For
> legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable
> for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways
> to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to
> creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a
> more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with
> code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of
> those is an option for me.
> -Morgan
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
>> > Hello there.
>> > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time
>> > with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved
>> with
>> > the graphical programming language!
>>
>> well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
>> is probably a not so good choice for you.
>>
>> > I'd be much more comfortable creating my
>> > patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD
>> patch
>> > generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted
>> > such a thing.
>>
>> there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
>> from whatever environment you prefer.
>> nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
>> such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
>> the steep hills of learning Pd.
>>
>>
>> just my 2¢.
>>
>> fgmasdr
>> IOhannes
>>
>>
>> PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
>> "python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
>> functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
>> reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
>> more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
>> replace the graphical part.
>>
>> PPS: i might as well miss the point
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG
>> V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7
>> =0Dku
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 
> Web:
> http://www.morganpackard.com
>
> Music/Art:
> Latest album: Moment Again 
> Elsewhere
> iOS app Thicket 
> available on iTunes 
> store
> .
> 
>
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>
>
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Music/Art:
Latest album: Moment Again
Elsewhere
iOS app Thicket
available on
iTunes store
.

_

Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Tedb0t]

I don't know if anyone has already created a (scripting) tool specifically for 
generating pd patch files?

On Feb 3, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Morgan Packard wrote:

> Hit Tedb0t,
> #2 is definitely what I'm interested in. It does look pretty simple to roll 
> my own. But if someone had already created a nice tool to do this, I'd prefer 
> that. In particular, it seems that putting proper constraints on the final 
> file would be nice. For example, the gui editor doesn't permit me to connect 
> the output of an "osc" to the input of a "bang". It would be nice to have a 
> similar limitation in the hypothetical script-based tool we're discussing.
> -Morgan
> 
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Tedb0t  wrote:
> It seems to me that there are two ways to maybe? accomplish what you're 
> describing:
> 
> 1) what I've explored fairly deeply is using the pd "internal messages" to 
> create objects in a running patch from a python script over a socket 
> connection.  There's a library someone made that handles this that I can't 
> remember the name of right now (anyone?) but I also wrote a basic thing here: 
> https://github.com/virgildisgr4ce/PureeData
> 
> 2) can you write the patch file from a script and then load it?  If you 
> haven't looked into it yet, the syntax is pretty basic.
> 
> ±±±t3db0t
> 
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Morgan Packard wrote:
> 
>> Thanks IOHannes,
>> I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For 
>> legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable 
>> for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways 
>> to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to 
>> creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a 
>> more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with 
>> code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of 
>> those is an option for me.
>> -Morgan
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
>> > Hello there.
>> > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time
>> > with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with
>> > the graphical programming language!
>> 
>> well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
>> is probably a not so good choice for you.
>> 
>> > I'd be much more comfortable creating my
>> > patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD 
>> > patch
>> > generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted
>> > such a thing.
>> 
>> there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
>> from whatever environment you prefer.
>> nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
>> such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
>> the steep hills of learning Pd.
>> 
>> 
>> just my 2¢.
>> 
>> fgmasdr
>> IOhannes
>> 
>> 
>> PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
>> "python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
>> functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
>> reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
>> more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
>> replace the graphical part.
>> 
>> PPS: i might as well miss the point
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>> 
>> iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG
>> V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7
>> =0Dku
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Web:
>> http://www.morganpackard.com
>> 
>> Music/Art:
>> Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere
>> iOS app Thicket available on iTunes store.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Web:
> http://www.morganpackard.com
> 
> Music/Art:
> Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere
> iOS app Thicket available on iTunes store.
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Tedb0t]

Whoops, just realized I hadn't replied to the list:

It seems to me that there are two ways to maybe? accomplish what you're 
describing:

1) what I've explored fairly deeply is using the pd "internal messages" to 
create objects in a running patch from a python script over a socket 
connection.  There's a library someone made that handles this that I can't 
remember the name of right now (anyone?) but I also wrote a basic thing here: 
https://github.com/virgildisgr4ce/PureeData

2) can you write the patch file from a script and then load it?  If you haven't 
looked into it yet, the syntax is pretty basic.

±±±t3db0t

On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Morgan Packard wrote:

> Thanks IOHannes,
> I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For 
> legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable 
> for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways 
> to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to 
> creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a 
> more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with 
> code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of 
> those is an option for me.
> -Morgan
> 
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
> > Hello there.
> > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time
> > with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with
> > the graphical programming language!
> 
> well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
> is probably a not so good choice for you.
> 
> > I'd be much more comfortable creating my
> > patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch
> > generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted
> > such a thing.
> 
> there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
> from whatever environment you prefer.
> nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
> such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
> the steep hills of learning Pd.
> 
> 
> just my 2¢.
> 
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
> "python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
> functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
> reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
> more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
> replace the graphical part.
> 
> PPS: i might as well miss the point
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> 
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> 
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> Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere
> iOS app Thicket available on iTunes store.
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Morgan Packard]

Thanks IOHannes,
I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For
legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable
for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways
to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to
creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a
more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with
code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of
those is an option for me.
-Morgan

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
> > Hello there.
> > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time
> > with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved
> with
> > the graphical programming language!
>
> well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
> is probably a not so good choice for you.
>
> > I'd be much more comfortable creating my
> > patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD
> patch
> > generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted
> > such a thing.
>
> there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
> from whatever environment you prefer.
> nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
> such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
> the steep hills of learning Pd.
>
>
> just my 2¢.
>
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
>
>
> PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
> "python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
> functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
> reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
> more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
> replace the graphical part.
>
> PPS: i might as well miss the point
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG
> V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7
> =0Dku
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>
>
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Music/Art:
Latest album: Moment Again
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iOS app Thicket
available on
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.

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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[errordeveloper]

On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 01:02:19PM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2011-02-03 12:18, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> >> sorry for not being very politically correct.
> >> When I asked Hans about what's heppening with
> >> the plugins, he said that Miller has an opinion
> >> about this feature to remain but no plugin code
> >> is being supplied in the git repository.
> 
> hmm, but Pd also provides an API for creating external objects, and
> still there are virtually no externals in the git repository nor in the
> releases ("virtually no" as compared to the number of externals you find
> in the pure-data svn or in the Pd-extended releases)
> 
> for me the entire idea about plugins is about not needing to distribute
> them with a small core applications.

IOhannes, in any case I didn't mean to argue with you
on this subject. I just thought that one who pulls
git repo may want to see a simple plugin example
(the key biddings example could a decent pick BTW).

once again, I am sorry for spreading gossips ;(

> 
> 
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > ___
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> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAk1KmUsACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRxqACcDYsvFYU7EFirT0Pqpy5iVM0E
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> =v1XH
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-02-03 12:18, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> sorry for not being very politically correct.
>> When I asked Hans about what's heppening with
>> the plugins, he said that Miller has an opinion
>> about this feature to remain but no plugin code
>> is being supplied in the git repository.

hmm, but Pd also provides an API for creating external objects, and
still there are virtually no externals in the git repository nor in the
releases ("virtually no" as compared to the number of externals you find
in the pure-data svn or in the Pd-extended releases)

for me the entire idea about plugins is about not needing to distribute
them with a small core applications.


fgmasdr
IOhannes




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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[errordeveloper]

On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 10:06:21AM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2011-02-03 09:37, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > You can write plug-in scripts in Tcl/Tk. Since 0.43 there is an official
> > way of loading them .. though Miller disregards this feature.
> > 
> 
> what makes you say something like that?
> 
> do you really think, that anything that miller totally dislikes, will
> make it into pd-vanilla?

sorry for not being very politically correct.
When I asked Hans about what's heppening with
the plugins, he said that Miller has an opinion
about this feature to remain but no plugin code
is being supplied in the git repository.

I mean to say that this could be made a better
feature, though it is not even advertised.

perhaps there is just more work to be done to
make the API usuable.
Also, I think it would be quite streight forward
to implement a gui-level simple [scrip] object
.. it would be a kind of a fake object though
and won't work without Tk gui ;(
BUT making a Tk scriping fully avaliable for
creating widgits would be really neat this way!

> 
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAk1KcA0ACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRt7ACgnPcX9WDflFm4znMe2ZZ5jkYS
> Ga4An1dtgc0LsY1zY2/5ajUfNewH7tuq
> =Cc1Y
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 



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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Andrew Faraday]

Same synthesis capabilities, chuck or supercollider (less real-time, 
csound)Similar graphic capabilities... Processing
Although I've got to agree. once you've gotten over infamiliarity the data-flow 
interface of Pd is definately one of it's greatest strengths. As with any 
language you've got to learn some syntax before learning to use it fluently. 
However, it's a good instant-use language. With the code operating in the same 
environment in which it's produced and edited. Meaning you can observe your 
code and debug without changing window, re-initialzing, compiling, bulding test 
methods or any other work-flow road-blocks like this. 
In short, the graphic interface is one of the great unique selling points of PD 
(and the rather more expensive maxMSP) and it's a valuable tool once you know 
how to use it.
It's also worth noting that it is possible to edit pd patches in a text editor, 
however this is a set of instructions for the placement of objects on-screen 
and is definitely not human readable. 
Andrew 

> To: pd-list@iem.at; lsut...@libero.it
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:57:24 +0100
> From: jmmmp...@googlemail.com
> Subject: Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the 
> graphical editor?
> 
> there's also pdlua, which is much easier to build than py. if you want to  
> learn lua, it works well. the package brings some example patches.  
> http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org/cm/2008-06-19_pdlua-0.5_released.html
> 
> > HI,
> >
> > Morgan Packard wrote:
> >> Hello there.
> >> I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of  
> >> time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve  
> >> involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more  
> >> comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does  
> >> such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm  
> >> the first person who's wanted such a thing.
> > People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first  
> > statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of  
> > course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at  
> > coding that will nevertheless prove benefical.
> >
> > Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't  
> > successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a  
> > particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice,  
> > ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the  
> > level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in  
> > MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently.
> >
> > Lorenzo
> >
> > [1] http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/py/
> >> thanks,
> >> -Morgan
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Web:
> >> http://www.morganpackard.com
> >>
> >> Music/Art:
> >> Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere  
> >> <http://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php>
> >> iOS app Thicket  
> >> <http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8>available on  
> >> iTunes store.
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Friedenstr. 58
> 10249 Berlin (Deutschland)
> Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570
> Studio +49 30 69509190
> jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp
> 
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote:
> Hello there.
> I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time
> with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with
> the graphical programming language! 

well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd
is probably a not so good choice for you.

> I'd be much more comfortable creating my
> patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch
> generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted
> such a thing.

there are sure ways to programmatically create patches.
from whatever environment you prefer.
nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do
such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk
the steep hills of learning Pd.


just my 2¢.

fgmasdr
IOhannes


PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning "pdlua",
"python", "tcl/tk" miss the point, as they talk about adding
functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown
reasons "C" and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do
more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't
replace the graphical part.

PPS: i might as well miss the point
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2011-02-03 09:37, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> You can write plug-in scripts in Tcl/Tk. Since 0.43 there is an official
> way of loading them .. though Miller disregards this feature.
> 

what makes you say something like that?

do you really think, that anything that miller totally dislikes, will
make it into pd-vanilla?

fgmasdr
IOhannes
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[João Pais]

there's also pdlua, which is much easier to build than py. if you want to  
learn lua, it works well. the package brings some example patches.  
http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org/cm/2008-06-19_pdlua-0.5_released.html



HI,

Morgan Packard wrote:

Hello there.
I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of  
time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve  
involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more  
comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does  
such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm  
the first person who's wanted such a thing.
People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first  
statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of  
course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at  
coding that will nevertheless prove benefical.


Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't  
successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a  
particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice,  
ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the  
level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in  
MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently.


Lorenzo

[1] http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/py/

thanks,
-Morgan

-- 
Web:
http://www.morganpackard.com

Music/Art:
Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere  

iOS app Thicket  
available on  
iTunes store.




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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[errordeveloper]

see http://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins

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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[errordeveloper]

On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 09:04:18AM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> HI,
> 
> Morgan Packard wrote:
> > Hello there.
> > I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of 
> > time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve 
> > involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more 
> > comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. 
> > Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't 
> > imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing.
> People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first 
> statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of 
> course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at 
> coding that will nevertheless prove benefical.
> 
> Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't 
> successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a 
> particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice, 
> ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the 
> level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in 
> MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently.
> 
> Lorenzo
> 

You can write plug-in scripts in Tcl/Tk. Since 0.43 there is an official
way of loading them .. though Miller disregards this feature.


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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?

[Lorenzo Sutton]

HI,

Morgan Packard wrote:

Hello there.
I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of 
time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve 
involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more 
comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. 
Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't 
imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing.
People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first 
statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of 
course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at 
coding that will nevertheless prove benefical.


Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't 
successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a 
particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice, 
ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the 
level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in 
MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently.


Lorenzo

[1] http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/py/

thanks,
-Morgan

--

Web:
http://www.morganpackard.com

Music/Art:
Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere 

iOS app Thicket 
available on 
iTunes store.




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