Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
I can understand not wanting dependencies, but you can include Bitstream Vera Sans Mono with Pd. It's a free font. It would just be one file, two if you want normal and bold. http://www.gnome.org/fonts/#Final_Bitstream_Vera_Fonts It would be MUCH easier to deal with than say, ASIO, portaudio, portmidi, FFTW, etc. .hc On Sep 25, 2007, at 3:46 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: > Well, I'm trying to avoid dependences on stuff that isn't absolutely > guaranteed to be there in the OS, so that Pd can work out-of-box > without > running installation scripts. > > Also, even though the sizes are apparently predictable with lucida > etc., > they are quite uncomfortably different from what Pd currently gets, at > least from the tests I've made. > > cheers > M > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:44:41PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner > wrote: >> >> If you set tk scaling to a fixed value, and use a font that is known >> to be installed (i.e. included with Pd), then the font sizes quite >> reliable in terms of pixel sizes, at least in my tests. >> >> .hc >> >> >> On Sep 24, 2007, at 7:49 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: >> >>> The problem I'm having is that there seems to be no reliable way to >>> get >>> a text font of a desired size using the Tk font primitives. In >>> practice >>> you can get a fixed-width font with a particular pixel width, but >>> then >>> the heights vary widely. If I simply fixed the height myself >>> from Pd, >>> it would be much easier to get fonts to fit patches. >>> >>> >>> cheers >>> M >>> >>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:55:07PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Miller wrote: > This is why I'm thinking about what I call the nuclear option: > separating all text into separate lines It's like the Qu?b?cois nucular family blowing up. It's proof that QC has WMD. Jean Cr?tin once said: ?Pourquoi acheter des carabines ? r?p? tition et de l'armement nucl?aire pour s'amuser? C'est dangereux! Et quand c'est dans la maison, bien il peut y avoir un enfant qui se sert de ? a, ...? (http://www.mef.qc.ca/audio/10vag.wav). Nowadays in QC, couples prevent divorce by simply not getting married (http://www.ledevoir.com/2007/09/13/156634.html). > and controlling the vertical spacing from within Pd. I don't > wanna do > it, but it might be the only way out. Out of what?... first define what you are trapped into. You are not bound to Courier fonts any more than you are strapped to a typewriter. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - t?l:+1.514.383.3801, Montr?al QC Canada >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >>> listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> >> - >> --- >> >> >> "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are >> deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from >> scarcity."-John Gilmore >> >> >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >> listinfo/pd-list All information should be free. - the hacker ethic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
Well, I'm trying to avoid dependences on stuff that isn't absolutely guaranteed to be there in the OS, so that Pd can work out-of-box without running installation scripts. Also, even though the sizes are apparently predictable with lucida etc., they are quite uncomfortably different from what Pd currently gets, at least from the tests I've made. cheers M On Tue, Sep 25, 2007 at 02:44:41PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > If you set tk scaling to a fixed value, and use a font that is known > to be installed (i.e. included with Pd), then the font sizes quite > reliable in terms of pixel sizes, at least in my tests. > > .hc > > > On Sep 24, 2007, at 7:49 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: > > > The problem I'm having is that there seems to be no reliable way to > > get > > a text font of a desired size using the Tk font primitives. In > > practice > > you can get a fixed-width font with a particular pixel width, but then > > the heights vary widely. If I simply fixed the height myself from Pd, > > it would be much easier to get fonts to fit patches. > > > > > > cheers > > M > > > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:55:07PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > >> > >> Miller wrote: > >> > >>> This is why I'm thinking about what I call the nuclear option: > >>> separating all text into separate lines > >> > >> It's like the Qu?b?cois nucular family blowing up. It's proof that > >> QC has > >> WMD. Jean Cr?tin once said: ?Pourquoi acheter des carabines ? r?p? > >> tition > >> et de l'armement nucl?aire pour s'amuser? C'est dangereux! Et > >> quand c'est > >> dans la maison, bien il peut y avoir un enfant qui se sert de ? > >> a, ...? > >> (http://www.mef.qc.ca/audio/10vag.wav). Nowadays in QC, couples > >> prevent > >> divorce by simply not getting married > >> (http://www.ledevoir.com/2007/09/13/156634.html). > >> > >>> and controlling the vertical spacing from within Pd. I don't > >>> wanna do > >>> it, but it might be the only way out. > >> > >> Out of what?... first define what you are trapped into. You are > >> not bound > >> to Courier fonts any more than you are strapped to a typewriter. > >> > >> _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > >> | Mathieu Bouchard - t?l:+1.514.383.3801, Montr?al QC Canada > > > > > > ___ > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > > listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > > "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are > deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from > scarcity."-John Gilmore > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
If you set tk scaling to a fixed value, and use a font that is known to be installed (i.e. included with Pd), then the font sizes quite reliable in terms of pixel sizes, at least in my tests. .hc On Sep 24, 2007, at 7:49 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: > The problem I'm having is that there seems to be no reliable way to > get > a text font of a desired size using the Tk font primitives. In > practice > you can get a fixed-width font with a particular pixel width, but then > the heights vary widely. If I simply fixed the height myself from Pd, > it would be much easier to get fonts to fit patches. > > > cheers > M > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:55:07PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: >> >> Miller wrote: >> >>> This is why I'm thinking about what I call the nuclear option: >>> separating all text into separate lines >> >> It's like the Qu?b?cois nucular family blowing up. It's proof that >> QC has >> WMD. Jean Cr?tin once said: ?Pourquoi acheter des carabines ? r?p? >> tition >> et de l'armement nucl?aire pour s'amuser? C'est dangereux! Et >> quand c'est >> dans la maison, bien il peut y avoir un enfant qui se sert de ? >> a, ...? >> (http://www.mef.qc.ca/audio/10vag.wav). Nowadays in QC, couples >> prevent >> divorce by simply not getting married >> (http://www.ledevoir.com/2007/09/13/156634.html). >> >>> and controlling the vertical spacing from within Pd. I don't >>> wanna do >>> it, but it might be the only way out. >> >> Out of what?... first define what you are trapped into. You are >> not bound >> to Courier fonts any more than you are strapped to a typewriter. >> >> _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... >> | Mathieu Bouchard - t?l:+1.514.383.3801, Montr?al QC Canada > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity."-John Gilmore ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
The problem I'm having is that there seems to be no reliable way to get a text font of a desired size using the Tk font primitives. In practice you can get a fixed-width font with a particular pixel width, but then the heights vary widely. If I simply fixed the height myself from Pd, it would be much easier to get fonts to fit patches. cheers M On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 12:55:07PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > > Miller wrote: > > >This is why I'm thinking about what I call the nuclear option: > >separating all text into separate lines > > It's like the Qu?b?cois nucular family blowing up. It's proof that QC has > WMD. Jean Cr?tin once said: ?Pourquoi acheter des carabines ? r?p?tition > et de l'armement nucl?aire pour s'amuser? C'est dangereux! Et quand c'est > dans la maison, bien il peut y avoir un enfant qui se sert de ?a, ...? > (http://www.mef.qc.ca/audio/10vag.wav). Nowadays in QC, couples prevent > divorce by simply not getting married > (http://www.ledevoir.com/2007/09/13/156634.html). > > >and controlling the vertical spacing from within Pd. I don't wanna do > >it, but it might be the only way out. > > Out of what?... first define what you are trapped into. You are not bound > to Courier fonts any more than you are strapped to a typewriter. > > _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > | Mathieu Bouchard - t?l:+1.514.383.3801, Montr?al QC Canada ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
Mac also uses the embedded Tcl/Tk. Only on GNU/Linux does Pd use the Tcl/Tk as installed in /usr/. .hc On Sep 22, 2007, at 1:46 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: > I believe Pd on Mac and Linux just uses whatever TK your machine > has installed. > (On windows I have to include TK in the Pd release, so it's fixed > at 8.4 > something I believe.) > > cheers > Miller > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2007 at 11:22:26AM -0400, patrick wrote: >> hi, >> >> i just installed pd-0.40.3 from miller's site and boom! >> http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdantialiased.png >> >> looking good: font with anti-aliasing... >> i guess it's because it is using tk8.5 >> >> pat >> >> >> >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >> listinfo/pd-list > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
I think that fighting against Tk and different font files is not a good option. That's basically what we have now, and it's not working well. I don't think fighting more against Tk will make things better. I think the best option is to use a standard font that is known to be the same size on all platforms. Like Bitstream Vera Sans Mono. There are others as well. Inconsolata looks quite promising, but isn't done yet. The other option is to choose fonts that are proven to be the same size. Courier has proven to be different sizes on each platform. Bitstream Vera Sans Mono and Monaco (included in Mac OS X) are quite close. I think that Lucida Console (included in Windows) could be quite close as well, but I haven't measured it. .hc On Sep 22, 2007, at 2:33 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: > This is why I'm thinking about what I call the nuclear option: > separating > all text into separate lines and controlling the vertical spacing > from within > Pd. I don't wanna do it, but it might be the only way out. > > cheers > M > > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2007 at 02:22:21PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: >> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, patrick wrote: >> >>> i just installed pd-0.40.3 from miller's site and boom! >>> http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdantialiased.png >>> looking good: font with anti-aliasing... >>> i guess it's because it is using tk8.5 >> >> It's not just antialiased, it's TrueType, and the TrueType Courier >> has too >> much spacing above and below, so either your font gets very small >> or your >> boxes get too big. >> >> _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... >> | Mathieu Bouchard - t?l:+1.514.383.3801, Montr?al QC Canada > >> ___ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >> listinfo/pd-list > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > listinfo/pd-list kill your television ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
slightly different on linux: http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/9625/pdvf4.png On 9/22/07, patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi, > > i just installed pd-0.40.3 from miller's site and boom! > http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdantialiased.png > > looking good: font with anti-aliasing... > i guess it's because it is using tk8.5 > > pat > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
This is why I'm thinking about what I call the nuclear option: separating all text into separate lines and controlling the vertical spacing from within Pd. I don't wanna do it, but it might be the only way out. cheers M On Sat, Sep 22, 2007 at 02:22:21PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, patrick wrote: > > >i just installed pd-0.40.3 from miller's site and boom! > >http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdantialiased.png > >looking good: font with anti-aliasing... > >i guess it's because it is using tk8.5 > > It's not just antialiased, it's TrueType, and the TrueType Courier has too > much spacing above and below, so either your font gets very small or your > boxes get too big. > > _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... > | Mathieu Bouchard - t?l:+1.514.383.3801, Montr?al QC Canada > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, patrick wrote: i just installed pd-0.40.3 from miller's site and boom! http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdantialiased.png looking good: font with anti-aliasing... i guess it's because it is using tk8.5 It's not just antialiased, it's TrueType, and the TrueType Courier has too much spacing above and below, so either your font gets very small or your boxes get too big. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd-0.40.3 anti-aliased (screenshot)
I believe Pd on Mac and Linux just uses whatever TK your machine has installed. (On windows I have to include TK in the Pd release, so it's fixed at 8.4 something I believe.) cheers Miller On Sat, Sep 22, 2007 at 11:22:26AM -0400, patrick wrote: > hi, > > i just installed pd-0.40.3 from miller's site and boom! > http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdantialiased.png > > looking good: font with anti-aliasing... > i guess it's because it is using tk8.5 > > pat > > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
