Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
Check out the project page: http://sync.dyne.org/?info=description looks like ivyTV cards are supported. .b. Jaime Oliver wrote: hi ben, what mpeg decoder cards with 4 outputs from the same machine are you refering to? I will need to get something like that for an installation, but don't really know much about it. best, J On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 8:47 AM, B. Bogart [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out Jaromil's ivysync, which uses those mpeg decoder cards for synced output. I think you can do 4 outputs from the same machine, but I'm not sure if that is a software limit, or just the number of slots available for those cards. Jaromil did mention something about a network sync feature also. As far as I know these decoders are all only 640x480, I imagine the ones working on linux certainly are. .b. marius schebella wrote: I am also working on a project like this (with thomas grill, who solved many problems before I even thought of them...). in principle synchronisation works fine. now your may ask why do other people pay so much money for expensive hardware? the problem lies in details: first resolution: for some cases you want to go with the highest available resolution 1080p (and in the future even more), and suddenly you will see small appearance of jitter, mostly because quicktime is different inside a quicktime player and outside quicktime, also because in most cases you have to convert color formats. then, compensating a drift without losing frames is very tricky. from my experience so far, Pd solutions only work up to 720p and only if you use a drift compensating algorithm - sending a bang for every frame over the network always causes jitter (although you may not notice). It is no big effort to try a pd version and see if you are happy with it. marius. altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? thanks! enrike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailto:PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailto:PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailto:PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver http://www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ http://www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org http://www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? yes. we used a dual-head machine (actually it was a quad-head, so we had plenty of space for editing...) running a single gemwin covering both screens and 2 [pix_film]s that were controlled by the same counter. since Gem allows you frame-accurate access, the 2 videos were in perfect synch. fmga.sdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
altern wrote: but we might need up to 6 to 8 video outputs, thats too much for the same machine. Thats why I thought about having a machine per video output connected to a LAN and synchronised via OSC. i've done this in the past, though not using PD/Gem. the tricky part is the robustness of the networking system, not the actual synchronisation (as local-area networking has a typical latency of 1-2ms, even over wireless). to sync more than one pc together you need a client/server architecture, basically, with one pc acting as the master timekeeper and all the others being slave. but then what happens if your master goes down? the others just sit there dormantly... to solve this issue of robustness, which was a big deal (it was for synchronising three cpus in a travelling roadshow built into a truck trailer: http://www.frey.co.nz/projects/futurefarming which spent most of its time a long way away from me), i built a system where each cpu had the ability to be either server or client. when the first cpu came up it would listen for server pings for a couple of seconds, and if it didn't find one it would assume that it was to be the server so started up and sent out a ping every few hundred ms. then when the next ones came online they'd hear a server ping and so would connect to it as a client. this way if one machine was down the network could reorganise itself. .. this kind of thing is probably overkill for your situation, but it's something to be aware of, perhaps. -- damian stewart | +351 967 797 263 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
On 25 Feb 2008, at 10:32 PM, altern wrote: I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? yes. we used a dual-head machine (actually it was a quad-head, so we had plenty of space for editing...) running a single gemwin covering both screens and 2 [pix_film]s that were controlled by the same counter. since Gem allows you frame-accurate access, the 2 videos were in perfect synch. but we might need up to 6 to 8 video outputs, thats too much for the same machine. Thats why I thought about having a machine per video output connected to a LAN and synchronised via OSC. I've done it often, the basic principle for keeping the LAN machines in constant frame sync, allowing scrubbing etc, is each projector has a slave patch that uses [pix_film] to play by frame number rather auto, and receives those frame numbers (via [netreceive]) from a master patch which has a metro counting the frames and which plays any sound required. Works very cleanly and doesn't put much data through the network. Two [pix_film] Gem-chains in each slave will give you X-fades etc. I could post the set of patches which add quite a bit more functionality than that if you like, I've built up a collection over several projects. simon ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
I am also working on a project like this (with thomas grill, who solved many problems before I even thought of them...). in principle synchronisation works fine. now your may ask why do other people pay so much money for expensive hardware? the problem lies in details: first resolution: for some cases you want to go with the highest available resolution 1080p (and in the future even more), and suddenly you will see small appearance of jitter, mostly because quicktime is different inside a quicktime player and outside quicktime, also because in most cases you have to convert color formats. then, compensating a drift without losing frames is very tricky. from my experience so far, Pd solutions only work up to 720p and only if you use a drift compensating algorithm - sending a bang for every frame over the network always causes jitter (although you may not notice). It is no big effort to try a pd version and see if you are happy with it. marius. altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? thanks! enrike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
Check out Jaromil's ivysync, which uses those mpeg decoder cards for synced output. I think you can do 4 outputs from the same machine, but I'm not sure if that is a software limit, or just the number of slots available for those cards. Jaromil did mention something about a network sync feature also. As far as I know these decoders are all only 640x480, I imagine the ones working on linux certainly are. .b. marius schebella wrote: I am also working on a project like this (with thomas grill, who solved many problems before I even thought of them...). in principle synchronisation works fine. now your may ask why do other people pay so much money for expensive hardware? the problem lies in details: first resolution: for some cases you want to go with the highest available resolution 1080p (and in the future even more), and suddenly you will see small appearance of jitter, mostly because quicktime is different inside a quicktime player and outside quicktime, also because in most cases you have to convert color formats. then, compensating a drift without losing frames is very tricky. from my experience so far, Pd solutions only work up to 720p and only if you use a drift compensating algorithm - sending a bang for every frame over the network always causes jitter (although you may not notice). It is no big effort to try a pd version and see if you are happy with it. marius. altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? thanks! enrike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
Hi Simon, Where Can we see the video patches you talk about? I´m very interested. Thanks, Enrique On 25 Feb 2008, at 10:32 PM, altern wrote: I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? yes. we used a dual-head machine (actually it was a quad-head, so we had plenty of space for editing...) running a single gemwin covering both screens and 2 [pix_film]s that were controlled by the same counter. since Gem allows you frame-accurate access, the 2 videos were in perfect synch. but we might need up to 6 to 8 video outputs, thats too much for the same machine. Thats why I thought about having a machine per video output connected to a LAN and synchronised via OSC. I've done it often, the basic principle for keeping the LAN machines in constant frame sync, allowing scrubbing etc, is each projector has a slave patch that uses [pix_film] to play by frame number rather auto, and receives those frame numbers (via [netreceive]) from a master patch which has a metro counting the frames and which plays any sound required. Works very cleanly and doesn't put much data through the network. Two [pix_film] Gem-chains in each slave will give you X-fades etc. I could post the set of patches which add quite a bit more functionality than that if you like, I've built up a collection over several projects. simon -- Enrique Franco Telefono/Phone: +572 5552334 ext 388 Webpage: http://richie.idc.ul.ie/~enrique/ http://www.iua.upf.es/~ffranco/pfm.htm ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
thanks all for the feedback about this issue. now i have a better overview of what I might be dealing with. enrike marius schebella(e)k dio: I am also working on a project like this (with thomas grill, who solved many problems before I even thought of them...). in principle synchronisation works fine. now your may ask why do other people pay so much money for expensive hardware? the problem lies in details: first resolution: for some cases you want to go with the highest available resolution 1080p (and in the future even more), and suddenly you will see small appearance of jitter, mostly because quicktime is different inside a quicktime player and outside quicktime, also because in most cases you have to convert color formats. then, compensating a drift without losing frames is very tricky. from my experience so far, Pd solutions only work up to 720p and only if you use a drift compensating algorithm - sending a bang for every frame over the network always causes jitter (although you may not notice). It is no big effort to try a pd version and see if you are happy with it. marius. altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? thanks! enrike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
On 26 Feb 2008, at 6:15 AM, enrique franco wrote: Hi Simon, Where Can we see the video patches you talk about? I´m very interested. I'm very busy till the weekend, I'll gather them up and post them after that. I'll give a URL to the list when I've done it. and yes - it isn't a perfect solution, there will be some jitter due to the LAN so it isn't as nice as proper time syncing would be, but since the frame-rate is usually 40ms that jitter is impossible to notice in almost all circumstances, and since actual frame-numbers are sent then there is no slippage or getting out of sync over time. I've used it with 5-projector wide images with fast movement across them. The biggest challenge is always getting the codec right for the circumstances, issues like whether the original was interlaced can be tricky. I find the results always better than DVDs which where often the more expensive alternative. The system has been especially useful to me when I've needed to present a sequence with different formats, possibly with still images, when I've wanted to be able to cue things manually, and when lots of keystoning or colour correction was needed to line things up. simon ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
hi ben, what mpeg decoder cards with 4 outputs from the same machine are you refering to? I will need to get something like that for an installation, but don't really know much about it. best, J On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 8:47 AM, B. Bogart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out Jaromil's ivysync, which uses those mpeg decoder cards for synced output. I think you can do 4 outputs from the same machine, but I'm not sure if that is a software limit, or just the number of slots available for those cards. Jaromil did mention something about a network sync feature also. As far as I know these decoders are all only 640x480, I imagine the ones working on linux certainly are. .b. marius schebella wrote: I am also working on a project like this (with thomas grill, who solved many problems before I even thought of them...). in principle synchronisation works fine. now your may ask why do other people pay so much money for expensive hardware? the problem lies in details: first resolution: for some cases you want to go with the highest available resolution 1080p (and in the future even more), and suddenly you will see small appearance of jitter, mostly because quicktime is different inside a quicktime player and outside quicktime, also because in most cases you have to convert color formats. then, compensating a drift without losing frames is very tricky. from my experience so far, Pd solutions only work up to 720p and only if you use a drift compensating algorithm - sending a bang for every frame over the network always causes jitter (although you may not notice). It is no big effort to try a pd version and see if you are happy with it. marius. altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? thanks! enrike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs
How about GEM working the sync on a extended screen and a Matrox TripleHead2Go. It gives you three displays + your laptop screen (would not give you an extra on a desktop). Is external so you don't need a slot on your computer and is very cheap (around $300). This is the most basic solution, is this what you need? Saludos. N/ - Original Message - From: Jaime Oliver To: B. Bogart Cc: the PureData - mailinglist ; marius schebella Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [PD] synchronised video outputs hi ben, what mpeg decoder cards with 4 outputs from the same machine are you refering to? I will need to get something like that for an installation, but don't really know much about it. best, J On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 8:47 AM, B. Bogart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out Jaromil's ivysync, which uses those mpeg decoder cards for synced output. I think you can do 4 outputs from the same machine, but I'm not sure if that is a software limit, or just the number of slots available for those cards. Jaromil did mention something about a network sync feature also. As far as I know these decoders are all only 640x480, I imagine the ones working on linux certainly are. .b. marius schebella wrote: I am also working on a project like this (with thomas grill, who solved many problems before I even thought of them...). in principle synchronisation works fine. now your may ask why do other people pay so much money for expensive hardware? the problem lies in details: first resolution: for some cases you want to go with the highest available resolution 1080p (and in the future even more), and suddenly you will see small appearance of jitter, mostly because quicktime is different inside a quicktime player and outside quicktime, also because in most cases you have to convert color formats. then, compensating a drift without losing frames is very tricky. from my experience so far, Pd solutions only work up to 720p and only if you use a drift compensating algorithm - sending a bang for every frame over the network always causes jitter (although you may not notice). It is no big effort to try a pd version and see if you are happy with it. marius. altern wrote: hi I need to have several video outputs that run in sync. A friend who works in a art exhibition space told me there would be couple of solutions for this but both involve buying pretty expensive equipment like special DVD players. I thought then that a solution for this issue could be to have several computers on a local network playing video (with GEM) and synchronise them via OSC. But I dont have any experience doing such a thing, never used OSC for anything similar. Also I dont have a clue about how to synchronise together videos. Has anyone done anything similar? any experiences to share? thanks! enrike ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Jaime E Oliver LR [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.realidadvisual.org/jaimeoliver www-crca.ucsd.edu/ www.realidadvisual.org 9168 Regents Rd. Apt. G La Jolla, CA 92037 USA -- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1297 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 9:22 AM ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
