Re: [PD] Patch acting weird with Pd 0.46.6
On 06/04/2015 02:11 AM, Chris McCormick wrote: On 04/06/15 06:03, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote: (And fanouts are more obvious than [trigger] objects wired in the wrong order, and especially where recursion is involved.) I am confused by this assertion. Can you explain like I am five? An Argument Against Dogmatic Triggers My toolkit: * fanouts mean I think the order doesn't matter (or else it's a bug) * triggers mean the order I chose is necessary for the program to work properly Your (proposed) toolkit: * no fanouts * trigger either means the order you choose is necessary, _or_ the order doesn't matter but you forced yourself to use trigger anyway Probably my failing but I am unable to imagine a situation in which fanouts are more obvious than [trigger] If I run into a bug that looks like I screwed up the order of operations, I can start with the fanouts and try to violate my own fanout premise. If I find a part of the patch where order of fanout wires indeed does matter, I instantly know it is the bug and can immediately fix it. If you run into a bug that looks like you screwed up the order of operations, you can't immediately tell the difference between the triggers that are required to run the patch properly, and the ones that you used merely because you want to avoid the danger of using fanouts (i.e., dogmatic triggers). Now, you might say that dogmatic use of [trigger] actually forces you to consider the order of operations in a way that my fanouts do not. And that may be true. But inevitably you will end up with a few parts of your patch where you _think_ order doesn't matter. If you use [trigger] in those cases anyway (and choose some arbitrary ordering), you remove the visual evidence that you thought the connection order could be unspecified. If it turns out you indeed chose the wrong order for your trigger, you make it harder to track down that mistake because you cannot tell the difference between your dogmatic triggers and the normal triggers. and I don't understand the qualifier especially where recursion is involved. If I have a choice to debug a recursive (control) object chain using my toolkit vs. your toolkit, I'll choose mine. Because I know to start with the fanouts, and then move to the triggers if I still haven't found the bug. With yours I can't do that because I don't have any visual information about where in the object chain you may have assumed that the ordering of some operations wouldn't affect the function of the patch. That may sound crazy, except that a) recursion is _really_ awkward and difficult to reason about in Pd and b) Pd _lets_ you make fanouts. If the UI didn't allow fanouts maybe it's a different story. But there are just so many examples in the wild that use fanouts, even fundamental idioms like [f]x[+ 1]. Scripture-style quotations or no, there's just no going back at this point. So to me, it's more instructive to try to consider which parts of a patch require ordering, which don't, show that in the patch, and think critically about all the above. How do you define obvious as used here? For example, looking at a patch... *2 seconds of eyeballs doing their thing*... oh, there is the fanout. vs... Oh, _everything's_ a trigger. Thinking... *2-2000 seconds of thought*... oh, there is the dogmatic trigger. There are of course other types of bugs, but that's the comparison for wire-ordering bugs. Last night I spent several hours tracking down a bug that turned out to be because I had used a fan-out instead of a trigger. I am not 100% sure if this backs up your point or refutes it but either way it sucked. :) I think I will continue to try and make myself use trigger objects instead of fan-outs to avoid that type of bug again. I think the more you consider the consequence of how things are ordered in Pd, the easier it will be to track down bugs. You might still achieve that by dogmatic use of trigger. But I think it's counter-productive to make proclamations against a feature that the UI allows, _and_ that everyone including the original author uses in every non-trivial patch. -Jonathan Cheers, Chris. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
please do not consider my previous message, I clearly had no idea what I was talking about and was just really confused :) sorry 2015-05-26 18:12 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: By the way, [sah~] in Pd has the inlets switched. In max, the left one is supposed to trigger the sample and hold, unlike [samphold~] in Pd. But [sah~] is just like [samphold~]. In order for it to be a proper clone of max, that'd need to be corrected, not sure if it happened already. 2015-05-24 23:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: for instance, it says Symbol argument sets name of table to play from. Additional int argument after that sets sample offset into the table (default 0) well, I put an int argument after that, and it doesn't really work at all! 2015-05-24 23:05 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: hi fred, how's it going? I was checking [cycle~] and it seems it's not behaving much closely like in max, have you checked that? I'm saying more about its behaviour as a wavetable, where it can offsett the table and everything. I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? How is it anyway? thanks cheers 2015-01-23 14:25 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi All, At http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/index.html a new set of revised help-patches for the cyclone library are available. Most previous remarks are applied. There are now previews of the Windows binaries and MacOSX. The latter is build on MacOSX 10.5 with XCode 3.14, so should have executables for PPC, i386 and i386_64. I confirmed the last two are working (10.5 and 10.8). It remains in progress, in the task list are the fixed and remaining issues. Fred Jan ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] installing pd libs on debian / OlinuXino board (wa: solimex board)
2015-06-04 17:35 GMT+02:00 Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com: now I'm trying to install pd on two other boards I have with same distribution. i manage to install pd, but ALSA doesn't show in the menu. Only OSS and portaudio. And OSS can't see any audio device. Aarrgh ! i'm answering to myself ;) found a working solution in this thread : http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-01/109000.html so i made $ apt-get build-dep puredata and then $ ./configure --enable-alsa $ make $ sudo make install ...and now it works, I have ALSA in the media menu just like it did with pd-extended. And audio works pretty well ! (as I said earlier, i got audio processing stuck sometimes and the gui was way slower with pd-extended) still don't know why, but seems like my distribution was missing something that I might have installed by chance on the first board. will try on the third board to be sure that build-dep was the missing step hope i'm not spamming the list for nothing and that it might help someone one day :) cheers, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] installing pd libs on debian / OlinuXino board (wa: solimex board)
now I'm trying to install pd on two other boards I have with same distribution. i manage to install pd, but ALSA doesn't show in the menu. Only OSS and portaudio. And OSS can't see any audio device. Aarrgh ! still can't figure how to get ALSA while building pd (0.46-6 from Miller's website) on debian tried : $ apt-get install libasound-dev $ ./configure --enable-alsa apart from that, I follow the procedure in the archive directory $ ./autogen $ ./ configure (or with --enable-alsa) $ make $ sudo make install don't what to try next... (that's silly, it worked fine on the first board. must have typed a magic shell command) if anyone has a suggestion... ? (i feel like doing my first steps outside pd-extended, even if I have been using pd for 10 years... some us might prefer ready-to-use environnements... but if it's the price of opensource/community developped software, I want to try to learn...) nice day, Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] LAUNCHPAD S in Pd
Hi, you should have a look to the Launchpad S Programmer Reference Manuel [1] which explain everything you should be know to light up a LED on the controler. The seection Computer-to-Launchpad LED Messages on page 12 describe how to do that. You just need a [noteout] on channel 1 with the pitch corresponding to the pad number and the velocity codes the colour. velocity = 12 + RED + 16*GREEN With red and green between 0 and 3 I guess. I made a little patch to use it's sister controler Novation Launch Control XL, attached to this email. Yours is not the same, but it could be a stating point. One thing in my patch you don't need I think, is that Launch Control XL has 16 layers on on each MIDI channel. Then to light UP the LED on layer 5 I have to send note on chanel 5. Cheers Antoine [1] http://d19ulaff0trnck.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/novation/downloads/4700/launchpad-s-prm.pdf -- do it yourself http://antoine.villeret.free.fr 2015-06-04 10:50 GMT+02:00 f...@mur.at: Hi, I try to embed the Novation LAUNCHPAD S in Pd for a performance. So it would be great to access LED colors, buttons, etc. easily. I found this new library lp_util from Dan Prince: http://www.danpprince.com/engineering/lp_util/ This really looks interesting. The only problem for me is, that I can´t get it working. I am on Win8 and I use Pd-extended 43.4 - I put the lp_util folder in my C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Pd and Pd seems to find it. - In Pd I declared the launchpad as Midi In and Midi Out device. If I run the patch lp_util_module_test nothing happens. So could anybody give me a hint, how to get it working? thanks! fränk This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Novation_Launch_Control_XL.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] installing pd libs on debian / OlinuXino board (wa: solimex board)
JUst double-checked to be sure and sudo apt-get install pd-iemlib definitely working here. double-checked too, it can't find pd-iemlib Presume olimex must have it's own repo's? don't know that... i just got their distribution as they indicate on their website now I'm trying to install pd on two other boards I have with same distribution. i manage to install pd, but ALSA doesn't show in the menu. Only OSS and portaudio. And OSS can't see any audio device. Aarrgh ! any suggestion thank you very much ! Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] LAUNCHPAD S in Pd
Hi, I try to embed the Novation LAUNCHPAD S in Pd for a performance. So it would be great to access LED colors, buttons, etc. easily. I found this new library lp_util from Dan Prince: http://www.danpprince.com/engineering/lp_util/ This really looks interesting. The only problem for me is, that I can´t get it working. I am on Win8 and I use Pd-extended 43.4 - I put the lp_util folder in my C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Pd and Pd seems to find it. - In Pd I declared the launchpad as Midi In and Midi Out device. If I run the patch lp_util_module_test nothing happens. So could anybody give me a hint, how to get it working? thanks! fränk This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] olimex board
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: Wow. That is not easy to get each library and install it ! Since I need [sigmund~], cyclone's [avg~], iem filters, [shell]... that won't be a fast task. Sometimes I don't even know were to download them... If I understand well, I cannot use apt-get install, since this won't be the freshest vanilla's with the ARM patch ? [...] It depends which Debian you're using on ARM. If Debian Wheezy, you get an old 'pre-ARM Pd' from repository, with troubles like subnormals. If Debian Jessie, you should get a recent enough version that works well. There's also a way to build Jessie's Pd on Wheezy, described by IOhannes on pd list. Katja ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
