Re: [PD] bring the noise

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

could you guys share a patch with that trick? :)

2017-04-06 19:13 GMT-03:00 cyrille henry :

>
>
> Le 06/04/2017 à 23:48, Matt Davey a écrit :
>
>> sorry, will get back to all of these suggestionslots of promising
>> stuff here.
>>
>> but first, cyrille...
>>
>> tabread4~ strange_noisy_waveshape
>>>
>>
>> any ideas how to generate that waveshape algorithmically???  handdrawn
>> stuff is awesome, but maybe there are even better ways?
>>
>
> I would 1st try with noise in small table in order to interpolate the
> noise. Or put a filtered noise in the table.
>
> You can also try a table that is not homogeneous : noise in 1/4 of the
> table, nothing on an other part, handdraw the rest of the table
>
> you can put sinus, sample, filtered noise, etc.
>
> the only limitation is your imagination!
>
>
>> thanks for that trick though!  so cool!
>>
> cheers
> c
>
>
>
>>
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Re: [PD] bring the noise

[cyrille henry]

Le 06/04/2017 à 23:48, Matt Davey a écrit :

sorry, will get back to all of these suggestionslots of promising stuff 
here.

but first, cyrille...


tabread4~ strange_noisy_waveshape


any ideas how to generate that waveshape algorithmically???  handdrawn stuff is 
awesome, but maybe there are even better ways?


I would 1st try with noise in small table in order to interpolate the noise. Or 
put a filtered noise in the table.

You can also try a table that is not homogeneous : noise in 1/4 of the table, 
nothing on an other part, handdraw the rest of the table

you can put sinus, sample, filtered noise, etc.

the only limitation is your imagination!



thanks for that trick though!  so cool!

cheers
c




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Re: [PD] bring the noise

[Matt Davey]

Alexandre,

i'm downloading that now.  thanks!!
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Re: [PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[zmoelnig]

On 04/06/2017 10:12 PM, Julian Brooks wrote:
> What's the canonical/most-favoured approach here for Debian (Linux in
> general I suppose).

# apt-get install pd-deken-apt

this will add apt powers to deken (but of course you need supercow
powers to use them)

gfasdmr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] bring the noise

[Matt Davey]

sorry, will get back to all of these suggestionslots of promising stuff
here.

but first, cyrille...

>tabread4~ strange_noisy_waveshape

any ideas how to generate that waveshape algorithmically???  handdrawn
stuff is awesome, but maybe there are even better ways?

thanks for that trick though!  so cool!
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Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Apr 6, 2017, at 9:22 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> i think the processing analogy also only takes the being-worked-on
> documents into account, rather than reusable libraries.

Nope, reusable libraries are stored in ~/Documents/Processing/libraries. Same 
for Arduino. This is mainly because ~/Library is not accessible by regular 
users whereas one method of adding libraries to Processing is to download a zip 
and put it’s contents in Processing/libraries.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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[PD] Deken install path & permissions on Debian

[Julian Brooks]

Hi all,

Just to add a little more noise to the ongoing debate...

What's the canonical/most-favoured approach here for Debian (Linux in
general I suppose).

I want my externals in usr/lib/pd/extra but installing via Deken I don't
have permission to install there - tbh so far, I've just installed via
apt-get (thank you IOhannes, the repo's are so blindingly good and the path
is sorted) but I'm sure this situation will come up for others (and for me
imminently).

Now of course I can just dl whatever lib via deken, save it somewhere
within where I do have permissions and cp it to the right place but I'm
lazy at heart - plus for 'how-to's this is a more complex description - how
are others doing it?

Big props to all the devs and contributors for Deken btw, this is so much
better than it's ever been before.

Regards,

Julian
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Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-04-06 15:36 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> We don't have such a user friendly manager like that with deken (far from
> it)
>

been saying it before, but in any case, by that, I mean:

1) the folder is not created for you, you have to pre create it (requiring
previous knowledge)
2) you can't navigate to that folder in Pd Vanilla to add it to your
preferences path (and Pd only add paths that you can navigate to). So you
need to create an alias for that invisible folder to your desktop, then use
it to find the path

this is all for mac os, of course

ways around that would be to auto create the folder and change it to a
visible and findable path (like ~/Documents) or redesign pd's interface
(which I feel is unlikelier to expect). But a visible folder in Documents
will always be simpler, cause it's not always the case that you will
download libraries from the library manager (deken). So now that I thought
more about it, even if you redesign Pd's interface, this will still be an
issue for mac users.

cheers
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Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

I can add, again, the example that Max uses ~/Documents for installing
plug-in externals and stuff.

just saying...

Yeah, some softwares will use ~/Library, but not like we're using, that is
a "Pd" folder in ~/Library, but choose ~/Library/Application
Support/SoftwareName instead.

Moreover, softwares that do that and install plug-ins there have a better
plug-in install manager that makes things easy for the user, and actually
do not make the user go there to do that stuff. We don't have such a user
friendly manager like that with deken (far from it), so an easy (or, better
put, "*easier*" alternative) would be to use a more accessible and
friendlier target, like Max, Arduino, Processing do.

I could go for either way, but thought it was simpler and easier to set a
new target folder.

cheers

2017-04-06 14:13 GMT-03:00 me.grimm :

> yeah this might be apple "conceptual" method but it seems in practice
> applications (lately?) are preferring to use ~/Documents as the catchall
> for libs,user created docs, examples, etc.
>
> so processing, for example, in ~/Documents has folders:
>
> examples
> libraries
> modes
> templates
> tools
>
> similar for arduino although default install online has
> ~/Documents/Arduino/libraries
>
> now that I am looking I even have an "Adobe" folder here where it looks
> like is stored all presets, user preferences, logs etc. AND in they
> un-typically install plugins/libs in /Applcations/Adobe */Plugins
>
> there are prob many other examples of softwares throwing lib folders all
> over OSX
>
> processing/arduino also make folders in ~/Libraries but they seem to be
> only preferences...
>
> cheers
> m
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 11:22 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-04-06 06:20, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> > A parallel discussion in this thread is that the system folders change
>> in
>> > MacOS, since ~/Library/Pd is an unusual and inconvenient place for that
>> (an
>> > example is processing using ~/Documents instead)
>>
>> i think ~/Documents is for user-created documents, whereas ~/Libraries
>> is for storing resources related to an application, such as plugins and
>> libraries [1].
>> afaict, a Pd-library (e.g. downloaded via deken) very much belongs into
>> the category of "plugins and libraries", rather than "user-created
>> documents".
>> so according to Apple's guidelines, ~/Library/Pd seems to be the correct
>> place to install Pd-libraries into.
>>
>> iiuic, ~/Documents/Pd would be used for storing the patches you are
>> currently working on. this probably should be the default working
>> directory on OSX (i unfondly remember the days when it used to be '/')
>>
>> i think the processing analogy also only takes the being-worked-on
>> documents into account, rather than reusable libraries.
>>
>> (as i sidenote, this makes it out of the scope for deken (so nothing
>> that *i* would implement ;-)))
>>
>> fgmsdrt
>> IOhannes
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Fi
>> leManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/MacOSXDir
>> ectories/MacOSXDirectories.html
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> 
> m.e.grimm, m.f.a, ed.m.
> syracuse u., tc3
> megrimm.net
> 
>
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Re: [PD] oops (did a bad thing in puredata.info)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

thank you, sorry for being so insistent


> i would ask you to not delete any content
>

no worries, from our discussion, I have figured out how to not need to do
that for what I wanted.

I will in fact try to include every release after 0.1alpha56 for historical
reasons (that'd be 0.1-alpha57, 0.2beta and 0.3alpha)

cheers
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Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder

[me.grimm]

yeah this might be apple "conceptual" method but it seems in practice
applications (lately?) are preferring to use ~/Documents as the catchall
for libs,user created docs, examples, etc.

so processing, for example, in ~/Documents has folders:

examples
libraries
modes
templates
tools

similar for arduino although default install online has
~/Documents/Arduino/libraries

now that I am looking I even have an "Adobe" folder here where it looks
like is stored all presets, user preferences, logs etc. AND in they
un-typically install plugins/libs in /Applcations/Adobe */Plugins

there are prob many other examples of softwares throwing lib folders all
over OSX

processing/arduino also make folders in ~/Libraries but they seem to be
only preferences...

cheers
m

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 11:22 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig 
wrote:

> On 2017-04-06 06:20, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > A parallel discussion in this thread is that the system folders change in
> > MacOS, since ~/Library/Pd is an unusual and inconvenient place for that
> (an
> > example is processing using ~/Documents instead)
>
> i think ~/Documents is for user-created documents, whereas ~/Libraries
> is for storing resources related to an application, such as plugins and
> libraries [1].
> afaict, a Pd-library (e.g. downloaded via deken) very much belongs into
> the category of "plugins and libraries", rather than "user-created
> documents".
> so according to Apple's guidelines, ~/Library/Pd seems to be the correct
> place to install Pd-libraries into.
>
> iiuic, ~/Documents/Pd would be used for storing the patches you are
> currently working on. this probably should be the default working
> directory on OSX (i unfondly remember the days when it used to be '/')
>
> i think the processing analogy also only takes the being-worked-on
> documents into account, rather than reusable libraries.
>
> (as i sidenote, this makes it out of the scope for deken (so nothing
> that *i* would implement ;-)))
>
> fgmsdrt
> IOhannes
>
>
> [1]
> https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/
> FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/MacOSXDirectories/
> MacOSXDirectories.html
>
>
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-- 

m.e.grimm, m.f.a, ed.m.
syracuse u., tc3
megrimm.net

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Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder

[Christof Ressi]

> i think ~/Documents is for user-created documents,

The Processing and Arduino folders in ~/Documents contain a 'libraries' 
subfolder, which is considered the default place for user-installed libraries. 
But in the end, that's just the Processing way. 

BTW, one thing I don't find so elegant (maybe that has changed now...) is that 
Deken will ask you *if* it should install the library in the default folder and 
you have to click 'no' to choose another directory. the question itself is a 
bit ambiguous and it doesn't seem very intuitive. IMHO it should rather ask you 
*where* to install by opening the panel. Just my two cents.


> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 06. April 2017 um 17:22 Uhr
> Von: "IOhannes m zmoelnig" 
> An: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder
>
> On 2017-04-06 06:20, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > A parallel discussion in this thread is that the system folders change in
> > MacOS, since ~/Library/Pd is an unusual and inconvenient place for that (an
> > example is processing using ~/Documents instead)
> 
> i think ~/Documents is for user-created documents, whereas ~/Libraries
> is for storing resources related to an application, such as plugins and
> libraries [1].
> afaict, a Pd-library (e.g. downloaded via deken) very much belongs into
> the category of "plugins and libraries", rather than "user-created
> documents".
> so according to Apple's guidelines, ~/Library/Pd seems to be the correct
> place to install Pd-libraries into.
> 
> iiuic, ~/Documents/Pd would be used for storing the patches you are
> currently working on. this probably should be the default working
> directory on OSX (i unfondly remember the days when it used to be '/')
> 
> i think the processing analogy also only takes the being-worked-on
> documents into account, rather than reusable libraries.
> 
> (as i sidenote, this makes it out of the scope for deken (so nothing
> that *i* would implement ;-)))
> 
> fgmsdrt
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> [1]
> https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/MacOSXDirectories/MacOSXDirectories.html
> 
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Re: [PD] New deken feature, create system user folder

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2017-04-06 06:20, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> A parallel discussion in this thread is that the system folders change in
> MacOS, since ~/Library/Pd is an unusual and inconvenient place for that (an
> example is processing using ~/Documents instead)

i think ~/Documents is for user-created documents, whereas ~/Libraries
is for storing resources related to an application, such as plugins and
libraries [1].
afaict, a Pd-library (e.g. downloaded via deken) very much belongs into
the category of "plugins and libraries", rather than "user-created
documents".
so according to Apple's guidelines, ~/Library/Pd seems to be the correct
place to install Pd-libraries into.

iiuic, ~/Documents/Pd would be used for storing the patches you are
currently working on. this probably should be the default working
directory on OSX (i unfondly remember the days when it used to be '/')

i think the processing analogy also only takes the being-worked-on
documents into account, rather than reusable libraries.

(as i sidenote, this makes it out of the scope for deken (so nothing
that *i* would implement ;-)))

fgmsdrt
IOhannes


[1]
https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/MacOSXDirectories/MacOSXDirectories.html



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Re: [PD] oops (did a bad thing in puredata.info)

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2017-04-06 06:00, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> IOhannes, please, can the cyclone page be edited and updated to include the
> newer available versions?

i finally found time to check that page with a backup.
i have now added you and fred-jan again as "owners", so you can edit.

despite being called "owner", i would ask you to not delete any content
you have not created yourself (including old and outdated releases)

fgamsdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] Pd GUI poor performance

[martin brinkmann]

On 06/04/17 12:27, Orm Finnendahl wrote:

> Apart from that there is an external called speedlim (you could also
> build that as an abstraction using vanilla) which might be more
> elegant than using a global metro.

my idea was to have exactly one event which updates all gui-elements,
instead of triggering a gui-update with every event (even if it is
speedlimited). maybe i am wrong, and pd 'quantizes' the screen updates
anyway (i have not studied the pd sourcecode), so that a few gui-redraws
at (more or less) the same time are not worse than one?
and of course i bypassed the gui for the dsp-calculations to use all
incoming events without any limit.

>>> what is the global gui refresh  metro ?
>>
>> that is/was my (temporary) solution for the slow gui:
>> a metro at 8 hz sending bangs to a global send
>> and a [f] receiving these bangs before every slider/number/ which is
>> updated via midi-ctl, counters, sequencers, whatever.


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Re: [PD] Pd GUI poor performance

[Orm Finnendahl]

Another solution could be to reduce the maximum number of messages
sent to the gui per tick. IIRC this is a #define somewhere in the
sources and you'd have to recompile pd, but I did this once on an
advice of Miller and it worked very well (except for the slow gui
framerate).

Apart from that there is an external called speedlim (you could also
build that as an abstraction using vanilla) which might be more
elegant than using a global metro.

--
Orm

Am Donnerstag, den 06. April 2017 um 12:12:42 Uhr (+0200) schrieb martin 
brinkmann:
> On 05/04/17 16:15, Billy Stiltner wrote:
> > what is the global gui refresh  metro ?
> 
> that is/was my (temporary) solution for the slow gui:
> a metro at 8 hz sending bangs to a global send
> and a [f] receiving these bangs before every slider/number/ which is
> updated via midi-ctl, counters, sequencers, whatever.
> while directly connecting a few midi-controllers to sliders could easily
> stall the gui (when the knobs are moved), this solution looked not very
> beautiful, but caused no dramatic cpu-spikes, even without 2d hardware
> acceleration.
> 
> > and do other graphics cards have different options
> > besides ShadowPrimary that allows fast access to pixel data?
> 
> i suppose so...
> 
> > Can look it up but seeing that you have recently been dabbling in it...
> 
> only with my radeon card under linux, until i had success with the
> settings in xorg.conf.
> 
> >> Option  "AccelMethod" "glamor"
> >> Option  "ShadowPrimary" "on"
> 
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Re: [PD] bring the noise

[martin brinkmann]

On 05/04/17 23:08, Matt Davey wrote:
> what sorts of other processes there are to generate noise, particularly
> noise more reminiscent of analogue machines.

in my "instruments-collection"
(http://martin-brinkmann.de/pd-patches.html) is a (not very elegant)
patch for pink(ish) noise, and one for brownian noise.
it is called brownian_pink_noises1.pd
the "ocean-wave-lfo" is not included (or finished yet) though... ;)


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