Re: [PD] sending a message to a parent only with vanilla (was " naming a parent patch: is this external useful?")

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 22:56, Henri Augusto Bisognini <
msndohe...@hotmail.com> escreveu:

>
> The only way i know *only with vanilla objects* is to use a [namecanvas]
> on the parent and pass it's name as an argument or through an inlet. Do you
> (or anyone reading this) happen to know a more elegant way?
>

I'm convinced this definitely needs an external, or a fix for not needing
to send |map 0, map1< in the first place. As discussed in that thread, the
problem is that using the '*donecanvasdialog*' to change GOP parameters
doesn't work well because things aren't redrawn.


> Perhaps something new recently introduced under the hoods in the latest PD
> releases, idk
>

so, yeah, perhaps we can open an issue/request to include something that
expands and improves dynamic patching, such as a new message method that
makes using '*donecanvasdialog*' obsolete.


>
> Cheers,
> Henri.
>
> ¹
> https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/9454/full-support-for-gop-dynamic-patching
> (putting it here since it wasn't present in the replies below)
>
> --
> *De:* Pd-list  em nome de Alexandre Torres
> Porres 
> *Enviado:* sábado, 10 de novembro de 2018 20:27
> *Para:* Pd-List
> *Assunto:* Re: [PD] naming a parent patch: is this external useful?
>
> For the record, I guess I should have said I'm deciding to forget about
> adding such an object to my library, since [sendcanvas] already takes care
> of this (so we don't need yet another one) and also cause I can deal with
> this inside the abstractions of my library with vanilla objects anyway...
>
> sorry for the noise
>
> Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 19:56, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
> Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 18:13, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
> it would probably exist somewhere, specially in [iemguts] of all places,
> but I couldn't find this functionality there (or I just missed it
> completely).
>
>
> yeah, I should have looked more carefully, at first glance I missed it
> completely, but I dug in more deeply, object one by one, and found out that
> iemguts has a [sendcanvas] object which also does that :)
>
> so yeah, apparently this is a useful feature for one reason or another...
>
>
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[PD] sending a message to a parent only with vanilla (was " naming a parent patch: is this external useful?")

[Henri Augusto Bisognini]

Since you've touched the of sending |map 0, map 1( from an abstraction to it's 
parent¹ allow me to ask this in the dev list:

The only way i know only with vanilla objects is to use a [namecanvas] on the 
parent and pass it's name as an argument or through an inlet. Do you (or anyone 
reading this) happen to know a more elegant way? Perhaps something new recently 
introduced under the hoods in the latest PD releases, idk

Cheers,
Henri.

¹  
https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/9454/full-support-for-gop-dynamic-patching 
  (putting it here since it wasn't present in the replies below)


De: Pd-list  em nome de Alexandre Torres Porres 

Enviado: sábado, 10 de novembro de 2018 20:27
Para: Pd-List
Assunto: Re: [PD] naming a parent patch: is this external useful?

For the record, I guess I should have said I'm deciding to forget about adding 
such an object to my library, since [sendcanvas] already takes care of this (so 
we don't need yet another one) and also cause I can deal with this inside the 
abstractions of my library with vanilla objects anyway...

sorry for the noise

Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 19:56, Alexandre Torres Porres 
mailto:por...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 18:13, Alexandre Torres Porres 
mailto:por...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
it would probably exist somewhere, specially in [iemguts] of all places, but I 
couldn't find this functionality there (or I just missed it completely).

yeah, I should have looked more carefully, at first glance I missed it 
completely, but I dug in more deeply, object one by one, and found out that 
iemguts has a [sendcanvas] object which also does that :)

so yeah, apparently this is a useful feature for one reason or another...
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Re: [PD] naming a parent patch: is this external useful?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

For the record, I guess I should have said I'm deciding to forget about
adding such an object to my library, since [sendcanvas] already takes care
of this (so we don't need yet another one) and also cause I can deal with
this inside the abstractions of my library with vanilla objects anyway...

sorry for the noise

Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 19:56, Alexandre Torres Porres <
por...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 18:13, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> it would probably exist somewhere, specially in [iemguts] of all places,
>> but I couldn't find this functionality there (or I just missed it
>> completely).
>>
>
> yeah, I should have looked more carefully, at first glance I missed it
> completely, but I dug in more deeply, object one by one, and found out that
> iemguts has a [sendcanvas] object which also does that :)
>
> so yeah, apparently this is a useful feature for one reason or another...
>
>>
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Re: [PD] German translation of Pd

[Peter P.]

* Christof Ressi  [2018-11-10 21:39]:
[...]
> but maybe I should stop complaining now and simply continue with my practice 
> of immediately deleting the "po" folder in my Pd installations :-)
But maybe we should try to solve this problem without having to tell
german newcomers and students of Pd to do the same ;)

P



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Re: [PD] naming a parent patch: is this external useful?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sáb, 10 de nov de 2018 às 18:13, Alexandre Torres Porres <
por...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> it would probably exist somewhere, specially in [iemguts] of all places,
> but I couldn't find this functionality there (or I just missed it
> completely).
>

yeah, I should have looked more carefully, at first glance I missed it
completely, but I dug in more deeply, object one by one, and found out that
iemguts has a [sendcanvas] object which also does that :)

so yeah, apparently this is a useful feature for one reason or another...

>
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Re: [PD] German translation of Pd

[Christof Ressi]

> meaning (= translation)

reading the translations "Schieberegler" or "Arbeitsfläche" doesn't tell a new 
user anything about the meaning. they might get a vague idea but the full 
"meaning" of those terms only emerges when they create the corresponding object 
and interact with it. then they can associate the object with the corresponding 
word in the menu. which word you use, however, is more or less arbitrary 
("Hslider", "Vslider", "Hradio" and "Vradio" aren't even real English words). 
now wouldn't it be nice if everybody would use the same words for those things 
which are specific to Pd?

I agree that this approach doesn't work so well with languages which don't have 
the same writings system (like English and Chinese) but I can't imagine that 
those German translations in the Put menu are of any use to a German Pd user. 
Seriously, how is something like "Vertikaler Schieberegler" any better than 
"Vslider"?

but maybe I should stop complaining now and simply continue with my practice of 
immediately deleting the "po" folder in my Pd installations :-)

Christof
 

> Gesendet: Samstag, 10. November 2018 um 18:43 Uhr
> Von: "Jurgen Frenz" 
> An: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD] German translation of Pd
>
> Allow me to insist on my bracket [in Klammern] suggestion - the fact 
> that the menus AND help patches are not localised in any other language 
> than English makes it vital to have both a rendering of the meaning (= 
> translation) and a reference to the original keyword.
> I have been teaching Pd in China and Malaysia and I am fully aware of 
> the extreme value of a translation of the text body.
> 
> Best
> Jürgen
> 
> On 10-Nov-18 15:55, Max wrote:
> > I disagree. Translations are made for people who aren't already 
> > polyglot. As Winfried said, let's strive to make the translations 
> > better. The suggestion Jurgen Frenz made is sensible though: 
> > translating it and put the original name in brackets.
> >
> >
> > On 10.11.18 01:34, Peter P. wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I had started this thread because of the terrible situation where you
> >> are teaching Pd to people, who have different language settings. It
> >> artificially confuses everyone involved without any gain. Everything
> >> that is in the "Put" menu should be uniform across all languages and
> >> match the terminology in the help patches. The same applies for other
> >> terms such as "patch" etc.
> >>
> >> This is really important and reduces the cognitive load of people new to
> >> Pd and learning it.
> >>
> >> best, P
> >>
> >>
> >>
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Re: [PD] VCV & Pd: Looking for a Champion

[Julian Brooks]

Hey Patrick
,
Definitely not meant passive aggressively.

As you say, 10k plus fervent participants, shirley worthwhile to someone(s).

I'm only touchy about it because, as mentioned, I already know it's a
highly contentious subject (& rightly so).

Happy to assist setting up a bounty at Ethereum end if you're ok sorting
with VCV community?

Hope your laundry is dried and put away,

J

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 23:06, pat pagano  wrote:

> if you mean you think you've got the chops to do it ..for a price... just
> say it.
> With 10,000+ users on VCV  i am sure a fee could be arranged
> I shared here as a favor for Andrew who was sharing an idea
>
> i have a full load of laundry in the dryer already, but I'd be willing to
> make a post on the FB group.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:48 AM Julian Brooks  wrote:
>
>> I know that for some this is a very touchy subject (putting at risk the
>> very foundations of open source participation) but:
>> Bounty!
>> e.g.
>> https://bounties.network/
>> or
>> https://gitcoin.co/
>>
>> J
>>
>> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 01:05, Alexandre Torres Porres 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Em qui, 8 de nov de 2018 às 19:16, Dan Wilcox 
>>> escreveu:
>>>
 Didn't he answer his own question it's open source, after all.
 Sounds like "hey, can someone do this for me so people will stop asking for
 it?" :)

>>>
>>> yeah, that was the deal for me too, and now this bottle with this
>>> message arrived to this list :)
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>
> --
> *Patrick Pagano  B.S, M.F.A*
> *Assistant Professor, *Interactive Media & Education
> Audio Projection & Performance Design
> Howard Community College
> *Columbia, Maryland USA*
> *http://shreeswifty.github.io *
> *(352)226-2016*
>
>
>
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[PD] naming a parent patch: is this external useful?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Hi folks, I wrote an external based on [namecanvas], but it can also name
the parent patch. My use case was that I wanted to keep it in a subpatch to
make my code cleaner, but that didn't feel like an excuse for a new
external. Nonetheless, I thought that there could be probably nice if you
could use this inside an abstraction and name a parent patch, who knows?
The thing is that if this was needed already, it would probably exist
somewhere, specially in [iemguts] of all places, but I couldn't find this
functionality there (or I just missed it completely).

So I asked about it on the facebook group and I got a feedback from Henri,
saying this would be quite useful as a workaround for this issue Pd has,
where you need to send the parent patch a |map 0, map 1< message so it
redraws - here's a discussion about it
https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/9454/full-support-for-gop-dynamic-patching

Now I'm more comfortable in providing this external, but it is also the
case where this could be thought as a Pd bug and eventually taken care of.

So, in order to learn more from those who do lots of dynamic patching, I'm
also asking here on this list if you think this could be actually useful
for other use cases.

ps. as long as we're at it, why is [namecanvas] considered "not safe" and
"probably should go away, but there's no replacement yet"?

cheers
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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] Updated Pure Data Reference Card

[Fede Camara Halac]

Hi,
Perhaps you can just pandoc the latex into Readme.md or index.html file instead 
of pushing a pdf file? 

Also, was the ref card updated manually or were you using a script to get a 
list of updated objects, etc? If so, it would be nice to have that script as 
part of the repo

thanks for this, looks awesome!

f




> On Nov 10, 2018, at 7:28 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> 
>> On 11/10/18 6:43 PM, Orm Finnendahl wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Am Samstag, den 10. November 2018 um 11:42 Uhr schrieb IOhannes m
>> zmoelnig:
>> 
>>> adding generated files to the *repository* itself is a bad idea in
>>> general.
>> 
>> ???
>> 
>> It is common practice for an abundant number of software projects to
>> put rendered examples in binary format
> 
> 
> that doesn't make it any better practice.
> what's the benefit of putting volatile binary data into a repository?
> 
> most users don't ever have a need to to visit the repository.
> a repository is for source code.
> it is *not* the place to download binaries from. for this you have
> "release pages" or whatever.
> so the proper solution is to direct the end users to the proper place to
> get the built-data.
> 
> gfmards
> IOhannes
> 
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Re: [PD] German translation of Pd

[Jurgen Frenz]

Allow me to insist on my bracket [in Klammern] suggestion - the fact 
that the menus AND help patches are not localised in any other language 
than English makes it vital to have both a rendering of the meaning (= 
translation) and a reference to the original keyword.
I have been teaching Pd in China and Malaysia and I am fully aware of 
the extreme value of a translation of the text body.


Best
Jürgen

On 10-Nov-18 15:55, Max wrote:
I disagree. Translations are made for people who aren't already 
polyglot. As Winfried said, let's strive to make the translations 
better. The suggestion Jurgen Frenz made is sensible though: 
translating it and put the original name in brackets.



On 10.11.18 01:34, Peter P. wrote:

Hi all,

I had started this thread because of the terrible situation where you
are teaching Pd to people, who have different language settings. It
artificially confuses everyone involved without any gain. Everything
that is in the "Put" menu should be uniform across all languages and
match the terminology in the help patches. The same applies for other
terms such as "patch" etc.

This is really important and reduces the cognitive load of people new to
Pd and learning it.

best, P



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Re: [PD] German translation of Pd

[Simon Iten]

i think the fundamental question is:

do you translate terms that are part of the pd-lingo? (and yes i know that word 
or any other commercial software does this)

i am not sure the learning curve for an english speaking person is that much 
faster if he does not have to learn the 5 english terms that are most commonly 
used in the put menu. some of them are also not obvious in english. point 
being, if you learn a “programming” language, you have to learn new terms 
anyway, not sure it really matters what words those are.

additionally, if you ever use the internet to look up how something could be 
patched or search for examples, all the terms and explanations will be in 
english… so maybe better to just learn it like this from the beginning.




> On 10 Nov 2018, at 15:55, Max  wrote:
> 
> I disagree. Translations are made for people who aren't already polyglot. As 
> Winfried said, let's strive to make the translations better. The suggestion 
> Jurgen Frenz made is sensible though: translating it and put the original 
> name in brackets.
> 
> 
> On 10.11.18 01:34, Peter P. wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I had started this thread because of the terrible situation where you
>> are teaching Pd to people, who have different language settings. It
>> artificially confuses everyone involved without any gain. Everything
>> that is in the "Put" menu should be uniform across all languages and
>> match the terminology in the help patches. The same applies for other
>> terms such as "patch" etc.
>> This is really important and reduces the cognitive load of people new to
>> Pd and learning it.
>> best, P
>> ___
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> 
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Re: [PD] German translation of Pd

[Max]

I disagree. Translations are made for people who aren't already 
polyglot. As Winfried said, let's strive to make the translations 
better. The suggestion Jurgen Frenz made is sensible though: translating 
it and put the original name in brackets.



On 10.11.18 01:34, Peter P. wrote:

Hi all,

I had started this thread because of the terrible situation where you
are teaching Pd to people, who have different language settings. It
artificially confuses everyone involved without any gain. Everything
that is in the "Put" menu should be uniform across all languages and
match the terminology in the help patches. The same applies for other
terms such as "patch" etc.

This is really important and reduces the cognitive load of people new to
Pd and learning it.

best, P



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[PD] [PD-announce] CfP for Workshops and Tutorials at ICAD 2019

[Paul Vickers]

(Apologies for cross-postings)

ICAD 2019 — Call for Submission of Workshops and Tutorials
25th International Conference on Auditory Display
Northumbria University, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
23–27 June, 2019

https://icad2019.icad.org
https://twitter.com/ICAD2019

Theme/Special Focus of ICAD 2019 is "Digital Living: Sonification for Everyday 
Life".

ICAD workshops and tutorials provide in-depth opportunities for conference 
attendees to discuss and explore important aspects of the field of auditory 
display with like-minded researchers and practitioners. Sessions can range from 
applications and programming methodologies to interdisciplinary research 
skills, emerging research areas, and challenge problems, to 
sonification/compositional Maker sessions.

Space, facilities, technical support, and the number of sessions that can be 
accepted are limited, so early submission of proposals is encouraged. Workshop 
and tutorial organizers are expected to collaborate with the conference 
committee, issue calls for participation, gather and review contributed 
materials (if appropriate), and decide upon the final programme for their 
session.

Important Dates:
- 8 March 2019 — Workshop/Tutorial proposals due

- 9 April 2019 — Notification of decision

For details on topics of interest, proposal format, submission instructions, 
and additional conference information please visit 
https://icad2019.icad.org/call-for-participation#workshops

Workshop/Tutorial Chair:
Derek Brock
icad2019worksh...@icad.org

Conference Chairs:
Paul Vickers and Matti Gröhn
icad2019cha...@icad.org

About ICAD:
First held in 1992, ICAD is a highly interdisciplinary conference with 
relevance to researchers, practitioners, artists, and graduate students working 
with sound to convey and explore information. The conference is unique in its 
specific focus on auditory displays and the range of interdisciplinary issues 
related to their use. Like its predecessors, ICAD 2019 will be a single-track 
conference, open to all, with no membership or affiliation requirements.

--
Paul Vickers
Co-chair of ICAD 2019: https://icad2019.icad.org

This message is intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential 
and/or legally privileged information. Any use, disclosure or reproduction 
without the sender’s explicit consent is unauthorised and may be unlawful. If 
you have received this message in error, please notify Northumbria University 
immediately and permanently delete it. Any views or opinions expressed in this 
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Re: [PD] German translation of Pd

[Christof Ressi]

> everything that is in the "Put" menu should be uniform across all languages 
> and
> match the terminology in the help patches. 

+1

> Gesendet: Samstag, 10. November 2018 um 01:34 Uhr
> Von: "Peter P." 
> An: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD] German translation of Pd
>
> Hi all,
> 
> I had started this thread because of the terrible situation where you
> are teaching Pd to people, who have different language settings. It
> artificially confuses everyone involved without any gain. Everything
> that is in the "Put" menu should be uniform across all languages and
> match the terminology in the help patches. The same applies for other
> terms such as "patch" etc. 
> 
> This is really important and reduces the cognitive load of people new to
> Pd and learning it.
> 
> best, P
> 
> 
> 
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