Re: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

[Henri Augusto Bisognini]

João Pais wrote:
> A curiosity: where is defined the vertical distance for new objects added 
> automatically? I would like to change it if possible.

It is defined g_text.c, in the function 
canvas_howputnew()

Currently there is no way to configure that without changing the source code 
but it would be nice to be able to configure that in the preferences.
We need more customization options. Maybe an preference panel dedicated to 
patching stuff.

Cheers,
Henri.

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Re: [PD] Grid, x y control

[Simon Iten]

or hit reinit…:-)

also it should not be that hard to force it to stay within the blue square.

> On 15 Dec 2018, at 22:59, Simon Iten  wrote:
> 
> nice,
> 
> unfortunately, when you drag the point outside the blue area and let the 
> mouse button go, the point is no longer dragable. (but the point can be moved 
> inside the blue area again with the fm thingy…
> 
> 
>> On 15 Dec 2018, at 20:17, hans w. koch  wrote:
>> 
>> 
> 




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Re: [PD] Grid, x y control

[Simon Iten]

nice,

unfortunately, when you drag the point outside the blue area and let the mouse 
button go, the point is no longer dragable. (but the point can be moved inside 
the blue area again with the fm thingy…


> On 15 Dec 2018, at 20:17, hans w. koch  wrote:
> 
> 




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Re: [PD] Grid, x y control

[hans w. koch]

in my collection i found a vanilla patch, named “doll” + helpfile, which 
implements a nice x-y grid based on datastructures.
(and don´t forget to switch on audio, if you try out the helpfiles funny 
fm-thingy)
unfortunately i don´t have any note who was its author.

maybe thats what you are looking for?

best 
hans



doll.pd
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doll-help.pd
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> Am 15.12.2018 um 12:10 schrieb João Pais :
> 
> if it has to be controlled by the mouse, it should be possible to program 
> something in vanilla using data structures - I don't have any prototypes 
> ready, except maybe the control points in [jmmmp/bezier].
> It's dependent on tcl/tk, so not suited for very fast changes.
> 
> Am Fr., 14. Dez. 2018 um 15:35 Uhr schrieb Max :
> Hi list,
> 
> what's the current recommendation for a simple x-y Pd GUI controller 
> type of thing? Like a slider but horizontal and vertical.
> There are probably a few externals providing this, which one is the 
> best/most compatible/future proof?
> In vanilla this can be emulated with an object reporting its position on 
> a canvas, but to use it one must change to the edit mode which is kind 
> of counter-intuitive.
> 
> Anything I'm missing?
> 
> m
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 12/15/18 1:02 PM, João Pais wrote:
> 
> - undo doesn't work on change of gui settings (color, variables, ...). But
> this behaviour was the same in previous versions, just a reminder.

well, this is somewhat intended behaviour.
changing the GUI-settings is similar to sending messages to an object
(under the hood).
so if you start a [metro 1000] by sending it "1", you cannot undo it.
similarily you cannot undo the [color( message sent to a GUI via the
properties.

from a user's POV the difference is, that sending a "1" to the [metro
1000] is happending in "run mode", whereas changing the properties is
(conceptually) happening in "edit mode".

> - the horizontal slider shortcut changed, but I'm not seeing it used
> anywhere else

iirc this has popped up on the list at least once before. the reason
being that on macOS the old short-cut Shift+Cmd+H is already taken by
the OS, making it unusable for Pd's purposes.
in order to have constistent shortcuts across all OSs, it was changed to
a value that is usable on all OSs.

i thought about writing a plugin to manually configure the
keyboard-shortcuts, but had it postponed (as it was not so simple after
all :-))

> (- small detail: most shortcuts are described in the menus as
> "Ctrl+Shift+...", others as "Shift+Ctrl+...". I guess the first is the
> norm?)

the problem is, that there is no real norm (it's different on OSX and
Windows; and on Linux there's no real standard).
i agree that it should be consistent within Pd (and thought that i fixed
it, but obviously did not).

gfmdsar


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Re: [PD] Small vanilla suggestions (windows)

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 12/15/18 12:18 PM, João Pais wrote:
>> well, originally the instantiation of an object via Ctrl+E was just a
>> side-effect of leaving edit-mode.
>>
> Exactly, but a quite useful one.

sure.
but then: it's not gone, is it?

> 
> 
>> i haven't noticed myself (but can confirm) the behaviour that Ctrl+E
>> does not leave edit-mode when currently typing.
> 
> Yes. Also about that, Ctrl+e while typing gets out of the object. In
> Pd-Ext, Ctrl+return closed the object, but didn't escaped it.

i'm not sure i really understand what you mean with "closing objects"
and "escaping objects".

> Which made
> keyboard patching a bit more confortable, as one just types Ctrl+1 and
> continues patching.

well, Ctrl-1 will instantiate the currently-being-edited object and (i
think this is what you mean with "closing the object") and then start a
new one.
no need for Ctrl-Return.



fmgadr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

[Max]

On 15.12.18 13:02, João Pais wrote:
- is seems that the old trick of simulating graphical depth by deleting 
something and undoing it so that it appears on top doesn't work anymore. 
I would say it even affects old patches, but I can't confirm this. Is 
this a consequence of the new undo routine?

This has been discussed on the list and in this github issue:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/472



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Re: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

[alfonso santimone]

To me one of the greatest disturbing things about arrays is that the mouse
can draw even outside the canvas borders.

www.elgallorojorecords.com
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On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:21 PM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

> > Also, before to edit an array it was necessary to click in a defined
> value - now it's possible to click anywhere.
>
> this has been the case in Vanilla for as long as I can think back and for
> me, personally, it makes sense. maybe it could be nice to have a "steady on
> click" option in addition to the default "jump on click" (analogous to
> HSlider / VSlider).
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Dezember 2018 um 13:02 Uhr
> Von: "João Pais" 
> An: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" 
> Betreff: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2
>
> Hello list,
>
> a couple more assorted suggestions with no specific logic:
>
> - is seems that the old trick of simulating graphical depth by deleting
> something and undoing it so that it appears on top doesn't work anymore. I
> would say it even affects old patches, but I can't confirm this. Is this a
> consequence of the new undo routine?
> This isn't necessarily bad, but it's a change in habits. E.g. instead of
> deleting+undoing, the object can be duplicated instead (and the position
> corrected).
>
> - undo doesn't work on change of gui settings (color, variables, ...). But
> this behaviour was the same in previous versions, just a reminder.
>
> - when hovering over gui objects, the mouse pointer changes direction.
> This was the case also for arrays, but it doesn't seem to be anymore?
> Also, before to edit an array it was necessary to click in a defined value
> - now it's possible to click anywhere.
> - the horizontal slider shortcut changed, but I'm not seeing it used
> anywhere else
> (- small detail: most shortcuts are described in the menus as
> "Ctrl+Shift+...", others as "Shift+Ctrl+...". I guess the first is the
> norm?)
> [maybe I wasn't paying attention to these changes in previous editions and
> they're documented for a long time]
>
> A curiosity: where is defined the vertical distance for new objects added
> automatically? I would like to change it if
> possible.___
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>
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Re: [PD] Pd Vanilla donecanvasdialog GOP starts edit mode

[Christof Ressi]

I think I noticed this issue when I fixed another regression with the 
donecanvasdialog message but I didn't have time to tackle it. I'll give it a 
try for the next bug fix release.
 

Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Dezember 2018 um 12:07 Uhr
Von: "João Pais" 
An: "IOhannes m zmölnig" 
Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" 
Betreff: Re: [PD] Pd Vanilla donecanvasdialog GOP starts edit mode

 
however: i'm sure you are aware that the donecanvasdialog message is
part of a "private" API, that is: it is used for the internal working of
Pd and users are not supposed to use it directly (even though it allows
you to do nice and handy things).
so i don't see anything inherently wrong with the new behaviour.
 
is there a "public" version of it? as this is very important for some of my 
abstractions and very useful, specially jp.menu and jp.preset, which simulate a 
drop-down menu only using Pd mechanics.
 you could always send an [editmode 0( message to the parent patch, to
inhibit the problem.
 
theoretically yes, but when being used in abstractions (which is my particular 
case) it makes things harder to determine what is the main patch window where 
to send the message to. And make it dependent on an external library that will 
find out the main window name.
 
Joao___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at 
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Re: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

[Christof Ressi]

> Also, before to edit an array it was necessary to click in a defined value - 
> now it's possible to click anywhere.
 
this has been the case in Vanilla for as long as I can think back and for me, 
personally, it makes sense. maybe it could be nice to have a "steady on click" 
option in addition to the default "jump on click" (analogous to HSlider / 
VSlider).
 

Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Dezember 2018 um 13:02 Uhr
Von: "João Pais" 
An: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" 
Betreff: [PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

Hello list,
 
a couple more assorted suggestions with no specific logic:
 
- is seems that the old trick of simulating graphical depth by deleting 
something and undoing it so that it appears on top doesn't work anymore. I 
would say it even affects old patches, but I can't confirm this. Is this a 
consequence of the new undo routine?
This isn't necessarily bad, but it's a change in habits. E.g. instead of 
deleting+undoing, the object can be duplicated instead (and the position 
corrected).
 
- undo doesn't work on change of gui settings (color, variables, ...). But this 
behaviour was the same in previous versions, just a reminder.
 
- when hovering over gui objects, the mouse pointer changes direction. This was 
the case also for arrays, but it doesn't seem to be anymore?
Also, before to edit an array it was necessary to click in a defined value - 
now it's possible to click anywhere.
- the horizontal slider shortcut changed, but I'm not seeing it used anywhere 
else
(- small detail: most shortcuts are described in the menus as "Ctrl+Shift+...", 
others as "Shift+Ctrl+...". I guess the first is the norm?)
[maybe I wasn't paying attention to these changes in previous editions and 
they're documented for a long time]
 
A curiosity: where is defined the vertical distance for new objects added 
automatically? I would like to change it if 
possible.___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at 
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[PD] Vanilla suggestions 2

[João Pais]

Hello list,

a couple more assorted suggestions with no specific logic:

- is seems that the old trick of simulating graphical depth by deleting
something and undoing it so that it appears on top doesn't work anymore. I
would say it even affects old patches, but I can't confirm this. Is this a
consequence of the new undo routine?
This isn't necessarily bad, but it's a change in habits. E.g. instead of
deleting+undoing, the object can be duplicated instead (and the position
corrected).

- undo doesn't work on change of gui settings (color, variables, ...). But
this behaviour was the same in previous versions, just a reminder.

- when hovering over gui objects, the mouse pointer changes direction. This
was the case also for arrays, but it doesn't seem to be anymore?
Also, before to edit an array it was necessary to click in a defined value
- now it's possible to click anywhere.
- the horizontal slider shortcut changed, but I'm not seeing it used
anywhere else
(- small detail: most shortcuts are described in the menus as
"Ctrl+Shift+...", others as "Shift+Ctrl+...". I guess the first is the
norm?)
[maybe I wasn't paying attention to these changes in previous editions and
they're documented for a long time]

A curiosity: where is defined the vertical distance for new objects added
automatically? I would like to change it if possible.
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Re: [PD] Small vanilla suggestions (windows)

[João Pais]

> > - soundfiler - send a message when a file or an array isn't found. This
> > would be useful for the patch to process this information (instead of
> just
> > showing it in the console)
> > E.g. "error file xx not found" and "error array xx not found". This
> allows
> > to sort out the components using route, unpack, etc. and can be updated
> to
> > further error types.
> > For now the soundfiler reacts with 0 in all outputs.
>
> isn't this what you want? a message telling you that the read did not
> succeed?
> i mean, you can use the 0-on-all-outputs messages to determine on a
> patch-level that the file couldn't be read.
>

The current output is good to know that something went wrong, but not what.
Afaik it can be a non-existent file or array - most likely the first. (I
don't know if there are other errors with more advanced options).


>
> >
> > - in pd extended, when typing in the name of a new object, the key
> > combination ctrl+return would "close" the object. This is now done by
> > ctrl+e, which serves for both closing the objects and go in/out of edit
> > mode. Currently, presing ctrl+e while editing an object closes the
> object,
> > but not the edit mode. Is it better to separate these two functions?
> >
>
> well, originally the instantiation of an object via Ctrl+E was just a
> side-effect of leaving edit-mode.
>

Exactly, but a quite useful one.


> i haven't noticed myself (but can confirm) the behaviour that Ctrl+E
> does not leave edit-mode when currently typing.


Yes. Also about that, Ctrl+e while typing gets out of the object. In
Pd-Ext, Ctrl+return closed the object, but didn't escaped it. Which made
keyboard patching a bit more confortable, as one just types Ctrl+1 and
continues patching.
Although adding a new object while editing one also closes the previous
object and moves on, so for some situations continuity is asured.
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Re: [PD] Pd Vanilla donecanvasdialog GOP starts edit mode

[João Pais]

> however: i'm sure you are aware that the donecanvasdialog message is
> part of a "private" API, that is: it is used for the internal working of
> Pd and users are not supposed to use it directly (even though it allows
> you to do nice and handy things).
> so i don't see anything inherently wrong with the new behaviour.
>

is there a "public" version of it? as this is very important for some of my
abstractions and very useful, specially jp.menu and jp.preset, which
simulate a drop-down menu only using Pd mechanics.


> you could always send an [editmode 0( message to the parent patch, to
> inhibit the problem.
>

theoretically yes, but when being used in abstractions (which is my
particular case) it makes things harder to determine what is the main patch
window where to send the message to. And make it dependent on an external
library that will find out the main window name.

Joao
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Re: [PD] Grid, x y control

[João Pais]

if it has to be controlled by the mouse, it should be possible to program
something in vanilla using data structures - I don't have any prototypes
ready, except maybe the control points in [jmmmp/bezier].
It's dependent on tcl/tk, so not suited for very fast changes.

Am Fr., 14. Dez. 2018 um 15:35 Uhr schrieb Max :

> Hi list,
>
> what's the current recommendation for a simple x-y Pd GUI controller
> type of thing? Like a slider but horizontal and vertical.
> There are probably a few externals providing this, which one is the
> best/most compatible/future proof?
> In vanilla this can be emulated with an object reporting its position on
> a canvas, but to use it one must change to the edit mode which is kind
> of counter-intuitive.
>
> Anything I'm missing?
>
> m
>
>
>
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