Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Roman Haefeli]

On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 21:22 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to
> get loop points from these files ;) 

I looked around for specifications of the .wav-format and I wasn't able
to find one that looks canonical. The ones I found didn't mention any
loop start- and endpoints. I wonder whether there is a convention about
how to encode this into some sort of metadata stored with file. Some
description of the format describe the ability to store anything as
metdata. Personally, I never dealt with such files (at least not
knowingly). Maybe a good start would be to provide such a file, so that
people can a have a look at it. It might be not that difficult to
retrieve such data with something like mrpeach's [binfile], once you
know how it is stored.
 

Roman


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[PD] Pd Workshop in Oakland/CA next sunday (february 16th 2020)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Hi there, I'm giving a workshop followed by a performance on sunday the
16th at *Pro Arts Gallery & Commons 150 Frank H Ogawa Plz, Oakland,
California 94612* - workshop is from 2pm to 6pm, performance should start
like 7pm and include other people (yet to be announced).

The workshop presents my ELSE library and my Live Electronics tutorial.
We'll cover some synthesis and processing techniques. We'll build a modular
synth and other creative examples with the provided tools and topics. See
more info in the facebook event. Thanks!


*About me:*

Alexandre Torres Porres has a masters in composition and a PhD in computer
music. He's a Pure Data expert and active in the Pd community as a
developer of externals and tutorials. As a composer and musician, he's
collaborated with several different projects in pop/experimental,
interactive installations, eletroacoustics, improvisation, noise &
chamber/orchestral music. He's mostly active in the experimental music
scene. His solo performances are mostly live electronics setups developed
with Pure Data and his externals, and they usually follow a drone and noise
aesthetics.


More details and information on the facebook event:
https://www.facebook.com/events/575218576632474

Or just write me and ask me about it.

Thanks
*Porres*
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Well, I was really really hoping to see information here on how to get loop
points from these files ;) let's please go back to this thread's original
discussion (that is to say you can branch to another "MP3 support" thread
if desired), thanks!

Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 18:03, Christof Ressi 
escreveu:

> @William
>
> > I understand there are licensing issues with
> > MP3 (esp. writing them)
> Licensing is not so much an issue anymore because the Fraunhofer patents
> expired in 2017, so OSS MP3 libraries like "lame" are now legal.
> > Even if it happens in an external which is easy
> > to find and load.
> As Hans already said, no one is opposing creating and using MP3
> externals (they already exist, BTW).
>
> Personally, I think that MP3 certainly has its use in audio production,
> but I also agree with IOhannes that Pd doesn't need *native* MP3
> support. The main reason is that Pd vanilla's design philosophy is to be
> as slim as possible with as little external dependencies as possible, to
> ensure that maintainance of the core doesn't become overwhelming.
>
> > Again, PD should be like Perl:
> > NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
> > Make it as flexible as possible.
> That's the entire point of Pd vanilla: have a stable core, but make it
> extensible. There are actually very few limitations on what you can do
> in Pd externals.
>
> Christof
>
> On 12.02.2020 02:26, hans w. koch wrote:
> > lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance
> for using mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with
> compressed formats requires decompression first (that this is done “behind
> the scenes” in other softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a
> computational overhead, which might it make look unattractive to some
> (including me e.g.).
> >
> > so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content
> delivery” codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no
> point read it as an attempt to block anything for anyone.
> > he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone
> would develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able
> to block it?
> > on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.
> >
> > best
> >
> > hans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston  >:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> >> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> >> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> >> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> >>
> >> good luck.
> >>
> >> What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
> >> What would you say are the core values of PD?
> >>
> >> Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
> >> Telling me what I "need to" do!!!
> >>
> >> One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
> >> Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as
> >>
> >> 1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or
> rigid limitations
> >>
> >> 2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and
> programming style,
> >> and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He
> relates it to
> >> looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the
> paths that people
> >> make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the
> sidewalks there.
> >>
> >> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> >> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
> >>
> >> Who said anything about a DJ setup?
> >> As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.
> >>
> >> Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?
> >>
> >> YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
> >> in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.
> >>
> >> But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
> >> by crippling PD to enforce them!
> >>
> >> The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
> >> in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
> >> any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.
> >>
> >> This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
> >> WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.
> >>
> >> This is ALWAYS the case!
> >>
> >> Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean
> that
> >> it is a high-quality sample.
> >>
> >> So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
> >> alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.
> >>
> >> Again, PD should be like Perl:
> >> NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
> >> Make it as flexible as possible.
> >>
> >> If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
> >> then lets make this possible.
> >>
> >> I understand there are 

Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Christof Ressi]

@William


I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them)
Licensing is not so much an issue anymore because the Fraunhofer patents 
expired in 2017, so OSS MP3 libraries like "lame" are now legal.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.
As Hans already said, no one is opposing creating and using MP3 
externals (they already exist, BTW).


Personally, I think that MP3 certainly has its use in audio production, 
but I also agree with IOhannes that Pd doesn't need *native* MP3 
support. The main reason is that Pd vanilla's design philosophy is to be 
as slim as possible with as little external dependencies as possible, to 
ensure that maintainance of the core doesn't become overwhelming.



Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.
That's the entire point of Pd vanilla: have a stable core, but make it 
extensible. There are actually very few limitations on what you can do 
in Pd externals.


Christof

On 12.02.2020 02:26, hans w. koch wrote:

lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance for using 
mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with compressed formats 
requires decompression first (that this is done “behind the scenes” in other 
softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a computational overhead, 
which might it make look unattractive to some (including me e.g.).

so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content delivery” 
codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no point read it as an 
attempt to block anything for anyone.
he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone would 
develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able to block 
it?
on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.

best

hans





Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston :


On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.

good luck.

What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
What would you say are the core values of PD?

Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
Telling me what I "need to" do!!!

One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as

1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid 
limitations

2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and programming 
style,
and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates it 
to
looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths that 
people
make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the sidewalks 
there.

to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.

Who said anything about a DJ setup?
As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.

Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?

YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.

But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
by crippling PD to enforce them!

The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.

This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.

This is ALWAYS the case!

Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean that
it is a high-quality sample.

So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.

Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.

If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
then lets make this possible.

I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
seem to have found a way to make it easy to
speak MP3 despite this limitation.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.

The answer to the question,
"Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
does not sound acceptable to me.

Thanks,
BH


--
William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
Binghamton NY

Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety Advocacy
Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube -- Podcast Blog
Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
Please support my work! -- TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston






On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m 

Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[hans w. koch]

lets not start a war here on who decides what for whom…the reluctance for using 
mp3, ogg, wmv might just lie in the fact that working with compressed formats 
requires decompression first (that this is done “behind the scenes” in other 
softwares doesn´t mean its not happening) and adds a computational overhead, 
which might it make look unattractive to some (including me e.g.).

so i am inclined to follow johannes separation between "content delivery” 
codecs (mp3 et al) and “production codecs” (wav, aiff) and at no point read it 
as an attempt to block anything for anyone.
he simply stated that he didn´t understand the wish for it…if anyone would 
develop something to work with mp3 in PD, how could/would he be able to block 
it?
on the other hand he is under no obligation to develop it for others.

best

hans




> Am 12.02.2020 um 01:55 schrieb William Huston :
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> 
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
> What would you say are the core values of PD? 
> 
> Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive. 
> Telling me what I "need to" do!!! 
> 
> One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl). 
> Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as
> 
> 1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid 
> limitations 
> 
> 2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and programming 
> style,
> and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates 
> it to 
> looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths that 
> people
> make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the sidewalks 
> there. 
> 
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
> 
> Who said anything about a DJ setup? 
> As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool. 
> 
> Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use? 
> 
> YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  FOR YOU!
> in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc. 
> 
> But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
> by crippling PD to enforce them!
> 
> The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format
> in use today.  It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
> any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD. 
> 
> This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
> WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source. 
> 
> This is ALWAYS the case! 
> 
> Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean that 
> it is a high-quality sample. 
> 
> So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
> alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me. 
> 
> Again, PD should be like Perl:
> NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS. 
> Make it as flexible as possible. 
> 
> If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs, 
> then lets make this possible. 
> 
> I understand there are licensing issues with
> MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
> seem to have found a way to make it easy to 
> speak MP3 despite this limitation. 
> 
> Even if it happens in an external which is easy 
> to find and load. 
> 
> The answer to the question,
> "Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
> being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
> does not sound acceptable to me. 
> 
> Thanks,
> BH
> 
> 
> --
> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> Binghamton NY
> 
> Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety Advocacy
> Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube -- Podcast Blog
> Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
> Please support my work! -- TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:
> On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> > As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> > any audio file type:
> > 
> > WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc
> 
> dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
> which should make all this much simpler.
> 
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
> 
> good luck.
> 
> 
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
> these are all handy formats 

Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[William Huston]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
>
> good luck.
>

What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
What would you say are the core values of PD?

Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
Telling me what I "need to" do!!!

One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as

1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid
limitations

2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and
programming style,
and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates
it to
looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths
that people
make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the
sidewalks there.

to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.


Who said anything about a DJ setup?
As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.

Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?

YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  *FOR YOU!*
in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.

But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
by crippling PD to enforce them!

*The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format*
*in use today.  *It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.

This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.

This is ALWAYS the case!

Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean
that
it is a high-quality sample.

So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.

Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.

If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
then lets make this possible.

I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
seem to have found a way to make it easy to
speak MP3 despite this limitation.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.

The answer to the question,
"Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
does not sound acceptable to me.

Thanks,
BH


--
William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
Binghamton NY

*Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety
Advocacy*
Blog  -- Facebook
 -- Twitter
-- Youtube

* -- Podcast Blog *
*Document collections*: VirtualPipelines
 -- BHDCSDimockArchive

*Please support my work! -- *TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston





On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

> On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> > As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> > any audio file type:
> >
> > WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc
>
> dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
> which should make all this much simpler.
>
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
>
> good luck.
>
>
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
> these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
> something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
> archiving format.
> which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
> supported.
> what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
> work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")
>
> gmsrda
> IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Christof Ressi]

so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.


It would be nice if Pd had an API to add codecs to [soundfiler], 
[readsf~] and [writesf~] as plugins. I think you did something like this 
for GEM (for video playback), right?



to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.
MP3 is often "good enough", especially for experiments. When people want 
to try some analysis or processing on a bunch of tracks in their music 
library, they have to first convert their MP3s to WAVs, which is akward 
and takes up lots of disk space.


To be clear: I agree that Pd probably shouldn't support MP3 or other 
compressed audio formats by itself, it should just make it easy to add 
such support as plugins.


Christof

On 11.02.2020 23:06, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:

As long as we are talking about soundfiler,

It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read

any audio file type:

WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc

dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
which should make all this much simpler.

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.

good luck.


to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
archiving format.
which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
supported.
what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")

gmsrda
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> any audio file type:
> 
> WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc

dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
which should make all this much simpler.

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.

good luck.


to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
archiving format.
which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
supported.
what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")

gmsrda
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[William Huston]

As long as we are talking about soundfiler,

It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
any audio file type:

WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc



--
William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
Binghamton NY

*Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety
Advocacy*
Blog  -- Facebook
 -- Twitter
-- Youtube

* -- Podcast Blog *
*Document collections*: VirtualPipelines
 -- BHDCSDimockArchive

*Please support my work! -- *TinyURL.com/DonateToBillHuston





On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 12:45 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> This is something I hoped it could be implemented in Pd Vanilla, with
> [soundfiler] (which now gives you some more information on the loaded
> file). If that's never happening, that is something I also wanted to
> implement in my externals, but I need help figuring how to do it.
>
> Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 09:36, Ingo  escreveu:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I know it had been a problem in the past to read out the loop information
>> of
>> wav samples.
>> I have not followed any further development since years.
>>
>> Is there anything (like an external) that can read the loop points of .wav
>> samples by now?
>>
>> If not has anybody been successful reading the header information with
>> something like [mrpeach/binfile]?
>>
>> I know that loop points can be stored somwhere or somehow in the header.
>> Unfortunately I cannot see from the Microsoft WAVE soundfile format where
>> the loop points would be or find any information on it.
>>
>> http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
>>
>> Any ideas?
>> Am I looking at the wrong file header type?
>>
>> Up until now I had been creating loops by copying the loop start and end
>> point manually from the readings of SoundForge.
>> However, I'm going to need a method soon that can read the loop points
>> directly from the samples.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Ingo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

This is something I hoped it could be implemented in Pd Vanilla, with
[soundfiler] (which now gives you some more information on the loaded
file). If that's never happening, that is something I also wanted to
implement in my externals, but I need help figuring how to do it.

Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 09:36, Ingo  escreveu:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I know it had been a problem in the past to read out the loop information
> of
> wav samples.
> I have not followed any further development since years.
>
> Is there anything (like an external) that can read the loop points of .wav
> samples by now?
>
> If not has anybody been successful reading the header information with
> something like [mrpeach/binfile]?
>
> I know that loop points can be stored somwhere or somehow in the header.
> Unfortunately I cannot see from the Microsoft WAVE soundfile format where
> the loop points would be or find any information on it.
>
> http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
>
> Any ideas?
> Am I looking at the wrong file header type?
>
> Up until now I had been creating loops by copying the loop start and end
> point manually from the readings of SoundForge.
> However, I'm going to need a method soon that can read the loop points
> directly from the samples.
>
> Thanks!
> Ingo
>
>
>
>
>
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> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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[PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[Ingo]

Hi everybody,

I know it had been a problem in the past to read out the loop information of
wav samples.
I have not followed any further development since years.

Is there anything (like an external) that can read the loop points of .wav
samples by now?

If not has anybody been successful reading the header information with
something like [mrpeach/binfile]?

I know that loop points can be stored somwhere or somehow in the header.
Unfortunately I cannot see from the Microsoft WAVE soundfile format where
the loop points would be or find any information on it.

http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/

Any ideas?
Am I looking at the wrong file header type?

Up until now I had been creating loops by copying the loop start and end
point manually from the readings of SoundForge.
However, I'm going to need a method soon that can read the loop points
directly from the samples.

Thanks!
Ingo





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Re: [PD] https://puredata.info/ is down (was: pdinfo.com is down)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 01:04, Roman Haefeli 
escreveu:

> I don't know how you came up with the bogus domain name


hahahaha, well, it was late, I was tired in bed, brain not its best self
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Re: [PD] https://puredata.info/ is down (was: pdinfo.com is down)

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 11.02.20 10:02, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 00:18 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> that's it, can't download from deken and stuff
>> xheers
> 
> I don't know how you came up with the bogus domain name, but indeed the
> website https://puredata.info/ is currently unreachable (503 Service
> unavailable).

indeed.
yesterday the VM that runs puredata.info was hibernated for a reboot of
the hosting server, and the VM did not wake up again.

fixed now. thanks for reporting.

fgmasdr
IOhannes

PS: i'm also hanging around on #freenode, sometimes i might be answering
things faster over there (sometimes not; but if you are desparate you
can try more channels to reach out; this is esp. true if e.g. the
mailinglist goes down along with the community portal...)



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[PD] https://puredata.info/ is down (was: pdinfo.com is down)

[Roman Haefeli]

On Tue, 2020-02-11 at 00:18 -0800, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> that's it, can't download from deken and stuff
> xheers

I don't know how you came up with the bogus domain name, but indeed the
website https://puredata.info/ is currently unreachable (503 Service
unavailable).

Roman




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Re: [PD] shmem and bigger buffer size

[iftah gabbai]

thank you Christof for the help and cyrille for the excellent work,
breaking it to chunks did the trick!

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 2:01 PM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

> > when you suggest to spread the op across several dsp ticks you mean  for
> example not to read the buffer in one go but to break the read to chunks?
>
> Yes.
>
> > also, is there a way to "defer low" different tasks in pd?
>
> Not yet, but I've proposed adding such functionality to Pd's API, so it
> can be used by Pd itself (e.g. for [soundfiler] and also by externals. I
> already made a working async task queue (for one of my externals), I
> basically just have to port it from C++ to C and make a PR, but I didn't
> have time yet :-(
>
> Christof
> On 10.02.2020 13:04, iftah gabbai wrote:
>
> thanks Christof, unfortunately increasing the delay is not an option for
> me,
> when you suggest to spread the op across several dsp ticks you mean  for
> example not to read the buffer in one go but to break the read to chunks?
> also, is there a way to "defer low" different tasks in pd?
>
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:53 PM Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
>
>> > when i setmem /dumpmem on a 576 samples size buffer
>>
>> Are you trying to do this in a single DSP tick? This would create a CPU
>> spike and lead to audio dropouts, depending on the value of "delay" in the
>> audio settings.
>>
>> You can either
>>
>> a) increase "delay" -> more latency -> more chance to "absorb" CPU
>> spikes, or
>>
>> b) spread the operation across several DSP ticks.
>>
>> Christof
>> On 10.02.2020 12:38, iftah gabbai wrote:
>>
>> so i tested it with linux and it works great, my only problem right now
>> is that i get an audible glitch when i setmem /dumpmem on a 576 samples
>> size buffer, i tried breaking the setting / dumping to smaller chunks but
>> it only got worse, is there any workaround?
>>
>> thanks!
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 11:44 AM cyrille henry  wrote:
>>
>>> yes, I did write that. But Miller implemented a binary transfer from pd
>>> to pd~ so the native solution must be lot's more efficient now. I did not
>>> test if shmem is still faster.
>>>
>>> Yes, using shmem_send~ and shmem_receive~ will add 1 more block latency
>>> on top of pd~ latency.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 01/02/2020 à 10:32, iftah gabbai a écrit :
>>> > @cyrille, i have another question if i may, i saw somewhere in the
>>> list that you write that streaming audio from pd to a subprocess with shmem
>>> is much more efficient in terms of cpu usage, is it still the case? also if
>>> i understand correctly from the docs i will then have latency of one block
>>> size + fifo right?
>>> >
>>> > On Sat 1. Feb 2020 at 10:29, iftah gabbai >> ift@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > @chris, thank you for that, very good piece of info!
>>> >
>>> > On Fri 31. Jan 2020 at 20:03, cyrille henry >> c...@chnry.net>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Le 31/01/2020 à 18:30, iftah gabbai a écrit :
>>> >  > so it is confirmed to work on linux? if so than great :)
>>> > it's working on my computer!
>>> > c
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >  >
>>> >  > On Fri 31. Jan 2020 at 13:58, cyrille henry >>  >>
>>> wrote:
>>> >  >
>>> >  > I don't know why it fail on mac. You can try to split
>>> in smaller table, like you suggested.
>>> >  > But you should also test it on linux first since it's
>>> your main target.
>>> >  >
>>> >  > c
>>> >  >
>>> >  > Le 30/01/2020 à 19:55, iftah gabbai a écrit :
>>> >  >  > im building on mac os 10.12 and intending to run on
>>> linux(arm), i haven’t tested on linux, the problems im having are on mac,
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > thanks!
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > On Thu 30. Jan 2020 at 17:47, cyrille henry <
>>> c...@chnry.net  > c...@chnry.net>>  >> c...@chnry.net >> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > what is your OS?
>>> >  >  >
>>> >  >  > Le 30/01/2020 à 17:10, iftah gabbai a écrit :
>>> >  >  >  > hey C, i have 16gb of ram, and if i did not
>>> completely messed up my calcs i tried to allocate 2 min of 96khz
>>> (11.520.000)
>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >  > thanks again!
>>> >  >  >  >
>>> >  >  >  > On Thu 30. Jan 2020 at 17:06, cyrille henry <
>>> c...@chnry.net  > c...@chnry.net>>  >> c...@chnry.net >> > c...@chnry.net> > >> c...@chnry.net  > c...@chnry.net> wrote:
>>> >  

[PD] pdinfo.com is down

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

that's it, can't download from deken and stuff
xheers
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