Re: [PD] pd64 and externals, deken etc?
> /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > ...is the only file found. there are actually quite a few binaries for a variety of architectures and pd32 and pd64 in this case - with different file extensions: zexy.l_i386 zexy.pd_linux zexy.l_arm zexy.l_arm64 zexy.linux-i386-64.so zexy.linux-amd64-64.so zexy.linux-arm64-64.so zexy.linux-armv7-64.so you can find these documented in https://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x4.htm#s4.1.2.1 cheers, ben Am Mo., 27. Mai 2024 um 08:45 Uhr schrieb Peter P. : > > * Peter P. [2024-05-27 08:41]: > > * IOhannes m zmölnig [2024-05-26 11:17]: > > > Am 26. Mai 2024 11:11:53 MESZ schrieb "IOhannes m zmölnig" > > > : > > > >Am 26. Mai 2024 09:40:02 MESZ schrieb "Peter P." > > > >: > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Will I have to install specific externals via Deken or apt then? > > > > > > > >Via deken: only externals that are compatible will be shown. So when > > > >running Pd64, you will only see externals that can deal with double > > > >precision (or are precision agnostic, eg pure abstractions). > > > > > > > > > > Also note that some maintainers might have chosen to upload separate pd32 > > > and pd64 packages for their externals (as opposed to having a single > > > package for both variants). > > > If both pd variants install into the same directory (which is the > > > default), then installing the pd64 external will (by default) first > > > remove the pd32 external. > > > You can change this (in the deken preferences). > > > > Thanks, do both versions of the compiled externals have the identical > > filename extension then? > (Sorry, replying to myself here) > > this seems the case, at least for apt-packaged zexy: > $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep .pd_linux > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > > ...is the only file found. > > best, P > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released
replying to myself here after realizing that i made this quite complicated, sorry. i get similar results when just doing this on macos here: time /Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd -send "pd quit" vs. time /Applications/Pd-0.55-0test2c.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd -send "pd quit" cheers, ben Am Do., 16. Mai 2024 um 13:21 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Wesch : > > thanks for looking into this! > when comparing click-on-app-icon vs. starting > "/Applications/Pd-0.55-0test2c.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd" from the > terminal, i also get slightly different results. the latter seems to > be a 1 or 2s faster (this was also the way i measured). the former > even causes the loading icon to appear, which i never saw in the pd > context iirc. > > but then again, i'm not sure if this is actually an issue at all! if > you don't see it on your side on the same architecture, it may well be > caused by some weird configuration on my side. > > just to document what i did to check the difference - which i hope is > a valid approach ... i have this little script "timer_pd.sh": > #!/bin/bash > LOG_FILE=$1 > START_TIME=$(gdate +%s.%N) > while : ; do > if grep -q "connected" "$LOG_FILE"; then > END_TIME=$(gdate +%s.%N) > DURATION=$(echo "$END_TIME - $START_TIME" | bc -l) > printf "%s: %.2fs\n" "$LOG_FILE" "$DURATION" > break > fi > sleep 0.1 > done > > ... and then starting these commands to reset the log and start timer > and pd in parallel: > truncate -s 0 pd-0.55-0.log > ./timer_pd.sh pd-0.55-0.log & > /Applications/Pd-0.55-0test2c.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd 2> pd-0.55-0.log & > > or obviously the same way: > truncate -s 0 pd-0.54-1.log > ./timer_pd.sh pd-0.54-1.log & > /Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd 2> pd-0.54-1.log & > > cheers, > ben > > Am Do., 16. Mai 2024 um 12:20 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette > : > > > > I'm having trouble recreating this - I thik it was happening for a while > > but now I can't seem to get consistent differences (after launching both > > versions many times). Are you launching it by clicking on the Pd icon, > > or some other way? (That seems to make a difference). > > > > thanks > > > > M > > > > On 5/15/24 1:25 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote: > > > hm, that's really weird. i tried to objectively measure here now with > > > a script that waits for the "connected" output when starting both > > > versions in parallel and i consistently get results quite similar to > > > this: > > > > > > pd-0.54-1.log: 0.99s > > > pd-0.55-0.log: 2.72s > > > > > > so my subjective impression was certainly wrong with 5s - but there's > > > still a noticeable difference. > > > > > > cheers, > > > ben > > > > > > Am Mi., 15. Mai 2024 um 11:51 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette > > > : > > >> Hmm... I'm not getting that on mine. The startup order is indeed > > >> different - > > >> > > >> the GUI doesn't start up until after any startup stuff has been done > > >> (loading libraries, > > >> > > >> etc). But I don't _think_ the overall time spent is different - do let > > >> me know if you're > > >> > > >> finding otherwise :) > > >> > > >> Miller > > >> > > >> On 5/15/24 10:56 AM, Benjamin Wesch wrote: > > >>> thanks a lot for the test release! > > >>> what i noticed here (apple m2) in addition to the missing console > > >>> output: pd now takes ~5s to start. not a big deal obviously, but it's > > >>> a huge difference compared to 0.54, where the gui is ready after ~1s. > > >>> > > >>> cheers, > > >>> ben > > >>> > > >>> Am Di., 14. Mai 2024 um 16:26 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette > > >>> : > > To Pd-announce: > > > > Pd version 0.55-0 test2 is available from > > http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm > > or (source only) via github: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!EYIIRk4dAHKvFUeDU8oAbbLqs85QxrQMAIKPfOBo4CV429prsy7Mkhr6G-eFg56gAQv31-q3Q0hYoDbWzZpR$ > > > > There was no "test1" - it never made it through the release process. > > Also, > > for Mac users, the app will show up as "Pd-0.55-0test2c" but in fact > > it's just test2. > > > > cheers > > Miller > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Pd-announce mailing list > > pd-annou...@lists.iem.at > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce__;!!Mih3wA!EYIIRk4dAHKvFUeDU8oAbbLqs85QxrQMAIKPfOBo4CV429prsy7Mkhr6G-eFg56gAQv31-q3Q0hYoBRj2MA2$ > > ___ > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!EYIIRk4dAHKvFUeDU8oAbbLqs85QxrQMAIKPfOBo4CV429prsy7Mkhr6G-eFg56gAQv31-q3Q0hYoBYYetOc$ > > >>> > > >>> ___ > > >>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-manage
Re: [PD] pd64 and externals, deken etc?
On 5/27/24 08:44, Peter P. wrote: Thanks, do both versions of the compiled externals have the identical filename extension then? no. (Sorry, replying to myself here) this seems the case, at least for apt-packaged zexy: $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep .pd_linux /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux ...is the only file found. ``` $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep "zexy\." /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.linux-amd64-64.so /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux ``` mgfasdr IOhannes OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released
On 5/27/24 09:24, Benjamin Wesch wrote: replying to myself here after realizing that i made this quite complicated, sorry. it depends what you actually want to measure. i get similar results when just doing this on macos here: time /Applications/Pd-0.54-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd -send "pd quit" vs. time /Applications/Pd-0.55-0test2c.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd -send "pd quit" which measures the time for the core to start and quit. this is not the same as the time it takes for Pd to startup with a functional GUI. esp. with Pd-0.55 (where the GUI is started late), the numbers you get might significantly differ from what you are experiencing when you start Pd interactively. here's what i get on my Debian system using `hyperfine` (which runs the application multiple times, to cater for disk-caching and whatnot) | version | flags | time| |-||-| | 0.54-1 || 131.7 ms ± 21.8 ms | | 0.54-1 | -nogui | 4.7 ms ± 2.6 ms | | 618b63 || 38.4 ms ± 3.6 ms | | 618b63 | -nogui | 4.1 ms ± 2.3 ms | the 0.54-1 version is the one packaged in Debian. the "618b63" version is current master (slightly after 0.55-0test3), but i haven't found any significant differences between `master`, `0.55-0test3` and `0.55-0test2c`) tests are run on a Debian/amd64 system (i7-13700K). if you want to measure the time until the GUI is fully available, you probably have to use a GUI plugin that quits Pd from the GUI side. mfdgrasd IOhannes OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd64 and externals, deken etc?
* IOhannes m zmoelnig [2024-05-27 11:51]: > On 5/27/24 08:44, Peter P. wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, do both versions of the compiled externals have the identical > > > filename extension then? > > no. > > > (Sorry, replying to myself here) > > > > this seems the case, at least for apt-packaged zexy: > > $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep .pd_linux > > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > > > > ...is the only file found. > > ``` > $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep "zexy\." > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.linux-amd64-64.so > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux Thanks for the correcty grep syntax. Aja,pd-zexy 2.4.1-4 on my Debian stable system provides only /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux but pd-zexy 2.4.3-1 on testing does contain both precisions then, brilliant! So the bottom line might then be: Deken developers should ideally package both single and double precision binaries of their externals into the same package. Deken users should note that newer version packages uninstall older version packages, as this might remove a single precision package when installing a double precision package with a higher version number (unless that feature is disabled in dekens preferences). right? best, P ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released
On 5/27/24 12:15, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
here's what i get on my Debian system using `hyperfine` (which runs the
application multiple times, to cater for disk-caching and whatnot)
| version | flags | time |
|-||-|
| 0.54-1 | | 131.7 ms ± 21.8 ms |
| 0.54-1 | -nogui | 4.7 ms ± 2.6 ms |
| 618b63 | | 38.4 ms ± 3.6 ms |
| 618b63 | -nogui | 4.1 ms ± 2.3 ms |
[...]
if you want to measure the time until the GUI is fully available, you
probably have to use a GUI plugin that quits Pd from the GUI side.
so i went ahead and created the following GUI-plugin named
"quitter-plugin.tcl":
```tcl
after idle {pdsend "pd quit"}
```
now Pd will quit once the GUI has become "idle" (right after startup).
which gives me the following stats:
| version | time|
|-|-|
| 0.54-1 | 249.9 ms ± 61.8 ms |
| 618b63 | 202.3 ms ± 119.3 ms |
so you can see, it is much slower than the naive "-send 'pd quit'" test.
Pd-0.55 is still much faster that 0.54-1, at least for me.
gdmfar
IOhannes
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[PD] stable pd64 release? "was: pd64 and externals, deken etc?"
While we're discussing pd64, can we make it 'official' and have it as 'non beta' for the next 0.55 release? If Miller can't take care of yet this other compilation, he can put a link for p64 binaries in his website that redirects to 'puredata.info' p64 downloads. I will only bother to compile ELSE and Cyclone when this is finally officially "ok" and easily available :) If we agree to have this worked out I can also make the current state clearer on the documentation (manual and stuff). cheers Em seg., 27 de mai. de 2024 às 08:28, Peter P. escreveu: > * IOhannes m zmoelnig [2024-05-27 11:51]: > > On 5/27/24 08:44, Peter P. wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks, do both versions of the compiled externals have the identical > > > > filename extension then? > > > > no. > > > > > (Sorry, replying to myself here) > > > > > > this seems the case, at least for apt-packaged zexy: > > > $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep .pd_linux > > > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > > > > > > ...is the only file found. > > > > ``` > > $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep "zexy\." > > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.linux-amd64-64.so > > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > > Thanks for the correcty grep syntax. > > Aja,pd-zexy 2.4.1-4 > on my Debian stable system provides only > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > but pd-zexy 2.4.3-1 on testing does contain both precisions then, > brilliant! > > So the bottom line might then be: > Deken developers should ideally package both single and double precision > binaries of their externals into the same package. > > Deken users should note that newer version packages uninstall older > version packages, as this might remove a single precision package when > installing a double precision package with a higher version number > (unless that feature is disabled in dekens preferences). > > right? > > best, P > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released
thanks a lot for pointing out 'hyperfine' and for providing this
somewhat self-defeating plugin.
comparing 0.54-1 to the artifact from the iem pipeline for 618b6325
now, i get the results below. side notes:
* the plugin is present in all cases, but should only affect the last
comparison, i assume
* it's a bit irritating to me that quitting 618b63 is slower via
'-send' flag than through the plugin, but this was obviously caused by
outliers (although i got similar results with another 10 runs)
| version | flags | time |
|-||---|
| 0.54-1 | -nogui -send "pd quit" | 78.5 ms ±0.6 ms |
| 618b63 | -nogui -send "pd quit" | 77.9 ms ±1.3 ms |
| || |
| 0.54-1 |-send "pd quit" | 327.2 ms ±5.6 ms |
| 618b63 |-send "pd quit" | 2512.9 ms ± 1523.3 ms |
| || |
| 0.54-1 || 396.5 ms ±4.7 ms |
| 618b63 || 2117.4 ms ± 518.0 ms |
... and a bit of system info:
Model Name: MacBook Air
Model Identifier: Mac14,2
Model Number: MLY33D/A
Chip: Apple M2
Total Number of Cores: 8 (4 performance and 4 efficiency)
Memory: 8 GB
System Version: macOS 14.5 (23F79)
Kernel Version: Darwin 23.5.0
cheers,
ben
Am Mo., 27. Mai 2024 um 15:08 Uhr schrieb IOhannes m zmoelnig :
>
> On 5/27/24 12:15, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> >
> >
> > here's what i get on my Debian system using `hyperfine` (which runs the
> > application multiple times, to cater for disk-caching and whatnot)
> >
> > | version | flags | time|
> > |-||-|
> > | 0.54-1 || 131.7 ms ± 21.8 ms |
> > | 0.54-1 | -nogui | 4.7 ms ± 2.6 ms |
> > | 618b63 || 38.4 ms ± 3.6 ms |
> > | 618b63 | -nogui | 4.1 ms ± 2.3 ms |
> >
> >
> [...]
> >
> > if you want to measure the time until the GUI is fully available, you
> > probably have to use a GUI plugin that quits Pd from the GUI side.
>
> so i went ahead and created the following GUI-plugin named
> "quitter-plugin.tcl":
> ```tcl
> after idle {pdsend "pd quit"}
> ```
>
> now Pd will quit once the GUI has become "idle" (right after startup).
> which gives me the following stats:
>
> | version | time|
> |-|-|
> | 0.54-1 | 249.9 ms ± 61.8 ms |
> | 618b63 | 202.3 ms ± 119.3 ms |
>
> so you can see, it is much slower than the naive "-send 'pd quit'" test.
>
> Pd-0.55 is still much faster that 0.54-1, at least for me.
>
>
> gdmfar
> IOhannes
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Re: [PD] pd64 and externals, deken etc?
On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 11:50 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > ``` > $ dpkg -L pd-zexy | grep "zexy\." > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.linux-amd64-64.so > /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/zexy.pd_linux > ``` On a somewhat related note, I tried my first floatsize=64 build and pd64 refused to load it. I only noticed after that I was using pd-lib- builder v0.6.0 and support for the floatsize=64 flag was only added in the v0.7.0. Until I actually tried to load the binary with pd64, I had no indication that I was still building for pd (32bit). I wonder if there is an (easily scriptable) way of detecting the floatsize of the resulting binary. Messing things can happen quickly and I would like to avoid that as far as possible, of course. Roman signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd64 and externals, deken etc?
Am 27. Mai 2024 23:13:56 MESZ schrieb Roman Haefeli : > >Until I actually tried to load the binary with pd64, I had no >indication that I was still building for pd (32bit). I wonder if there >is an (easily scriptable) way of detecting the floatsize of the >resulting binary. Package your external with the `deken` cmdline tool? (A poor man's substitute would be to just grep for `class_new64`) mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd64 and externals, deken etc?
On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 06:07 +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote: > Am 27. Mai 2024 23:13:56 MESZ schrieb Roman Haefeli > : > > > > Until I actually tried to load the binary with pd64, I had no > > indication that I was still building for pd (32bit). I wonder if > > there > > is an (easily scriptable) way of detecting the floatsize of the > > resulting binary. > Package your external with the `deken` cmdline tool? Works! (with an up-to-date Deken) > (A poor man's substitute would be to just grep for `class_new64`) Nice. That's what I was after. Thanks! Roman signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
