Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

What about Pure Data C externs?
How are they loaded into Pure Data? Are they in readable form?

-Matti

> On 07 May 2016, at 23:19, Jonathan Wilkes <jancs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> If your aim is to create a compiler for Pd patches (JIT or otherwise, 
> proprietary or otherwise), I have the same faith in Miller sitting down and 
> writing a formal language spec for Pd as I do in you succeeding.
> 
> -Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, May 7, 2016 3:33 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s just that e.g. VSTs are fundamentally a limited format compared to Pure 
> Data patches.
> There are some modular VST hosts, but not much something like Reaktor that 
> combines both
> high- and low-level and customisation in the same environment.
> 
> At the KVR audio there was a late interest in developing perhaps yet another 
> such platform:
> http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33=461790 
> <http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33=461790>
> 
> -Matti
> 
>> On 07 May 2016, at 22:24, Scott R. Looney <scottrloo...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:scottrloo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> hi Matti - the only thing i've seen that is something similar to what you're 
>> asking is the Heavy toolchain from Enzien Audio based on the online 
>> Tannhauser compiler. it can convert a PD patch into C++ where it can then be 
>> used as a plugin for different platforms, including in game audio 
>> middleware. the service is a commercial service if the product you're 
>> planning to use is commercial in nature. at that point you could use it in 
>> something like JUCE to do what you need to make it a full plugin or 
>> standalone app. many commercial companies use PD or Max to prototype what 
>> they eventually sell as commercial software. Joe White is on the list and 
>> may have more info than me on commercial uses of Heavy: 
>> https://enzienaudio.com/ <https://enzienaudio.com/>
>> 
>> scott
>> 
>> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>> Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
>> 
>> -Matti
>> 
>>> On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as 
>>> an extension of Pd?
>>> 
>>> There are some around:
>>> http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html 
>>> <http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html>
>>> https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler 
>>> <https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler>
>>> 
>>> So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
>>> 
>>> -Matti
>>> 
>>>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to 
>>>> develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd.
>>>> Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
>>>> 
>>>> Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also 
>>>> more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
>>>> 
>>>> I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can 
>>>> combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so 
>>>> to speak.
>>>> 
>>>> -Matti
>>>> 
>>>>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
>>>>> <mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches 
>>>>> back to the community?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have you seen 
>>>>> Monolog X
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
>>>>> Interactive Media & Education
>>>>> +1352.226.2016 
>>>>> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ 
>>>>> <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> W

Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

It’s just that e.g. VSTs are fundamentally a limited format compared to Pure 
Data patches.
There are some modular VST hosts, but not much something like Reaktor that 
combines both
high- and low-level and customisation in the same environment.

At the KVR audio there was a late interest in developing perhaps yet another 
such platform:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33=461790 
<http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33=461790>

-Matti

> On 07 May 2016, at 22:24, Scott R. Looney <scottrloo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> hi Matti - the only thing i've seen that is something similar to what you're 
> asking is the Heavy toolchain from Enzien Audio based on the online 
> Tannhauser compiler. it can convert a PD patch into C++ where it can then be 
> used as a plugin for different platforms, including in game audio middleware. 
> the service is a commercial service if the product you're planning to use is 
> commercial in nature. at that point you could use it in something like JUCE 
> to do what you need to make it a full plugin or standalone app. many 
> commercial companies use PD or Max to prototype what they eventually sell as 
> commercial software. Joe White is on the list and may have more info than me 
> on commercial uses of Heavy: https://enzienaudio.com/ 
> <https://enzienaudio.com/>
> 
> scott
> 
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
> Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.
> 
> -Matti
> 
>> On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an 
>> extension of Pd?
>> 
>> There are some around:
>> http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html 
>> <http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html>
>> https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler 
>> <https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler>
>> 
>> So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
>> 
>> -Matti
>> 
>>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to 
>>> develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd.
>>> Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
>>> 
>>> Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also 
>>> more refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
>>> 
>>> I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can 
>>> combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so 
>>> to speak.
>>> 
>>> -Matti
>>> 
>>>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
>>>> <mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches 
>>>> back to the community?
>>>> 
>>>> Have you seen 
>>>> Monolog X
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
>>>> Interactive Media & Education
>>>> +1352.226.2016 <tel:%2B1352.226.2016>
>>>> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ 
>>>> <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or 
>>>>> perhaps LibPd?
>>>>> Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in 
>>>>> Pd.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to 
>>>>> Reaktor’s Blocks that would
>>>>> allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could 
>>>>> motivate developers to develop patches
>>>>> in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised 
>>>>> patches. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in 
>>>>> Pd. But I wouldn’t w

Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Or even straight C -> binary and then have Pd open the binary as patch.

-Matti

> On 07 May 2016, at 22:01, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an 
> extension of Pd?
> 
> There are some around:
> http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html 
> <http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html>
> https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler 
> <https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler>
> 
> So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?
> 
> -Matti
> 
>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>> 
>> I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to 
>> develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd.
>> Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
>> 
>> Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more 
>> refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
>> 
>> I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can 
>> combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to 
>> speak.
>> 
>> -Matti
>> 
>>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
>>> <mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back 
>>> to the community?
>>> 
>>> Have you seen 
>>> Monolog X
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
>>> Interactive Media & Education
>>> +1352.226.2016
>>> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ 
>>> <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or 
>>>> perhaps LibPd?
>>>> Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
>>>> 
>>>> The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in 
>>>> Pd.
>>>> 
>>>> What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to 
>>>> Reaktor’s Blocks that would
>>>> allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could 
>>>> motivate developers to develop patches
>>>> in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised 
>>>> patches. 
>>>> 
>>>> Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in 
>>>> Pd. But I wouldn’t want to
>>>> spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I 
>>>> could do that using some other platform.
>>>> 
>>>> -Matti
>>>> 
>>>>> On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu 
>>>>> <mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and
>>>>> keep it a secret how the patch works.  I don't think people often feel the
>>>>> need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> Miller
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
>>>>>> But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can 
>>>>>> you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I only found this:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
>>>>>> https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone 
>>>>>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone> 
>>>>>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone 
>>>>>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Matti
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
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>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
>>>> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
>> 
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> 
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Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Anyone know if compiling Pd patch to C could offer a possibility, e.g. as an 
extension of Pd?

There are some around:
http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html 
<http://resenv.media.mit.edu/PuDAC/sw.html>
https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler 
<https://github.com/sharebrained/pd_compiler>

So patch -> C -> binary and then have Pd somehow open the binary as patch?

-Matti

> On 07 May 2016, at 21:08, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> I think being open to commercial development could make it attractive to 
> develop e.g. high quality oscillators and filters for Pd.
> Commercial synthesisers and effects are often better than freeware.
> 
> Reaktor has a lot of good free ensembles, but development wise its also more 
> refined product (i.e. the development ought to be less painful).
> 
> I think it’d be interesting to be able to have a platform where one can 
> combine open source and commercial “modules”. Best of the both worlds, so to 
> speak.
> 
> -Matti
> 
>> On 07 May 2016, at 21:04, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
>> <mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> But as I suspected it sounds like your intention is to sell pd patches back 
>> to the community?
>> 
>> Have you seen 
>> Monolog X
>> 
>> 
>> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
>> Interactive Media & Education
>> +1352.226.2016
>> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
>> 
>> 
>> On May 7, 2016, at 1:37 PM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>> 
>>> What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or 
>>> perhaps LibPd?
>>> Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?
>>> 
>>> The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in 
>>> Pd.
>>> 
>>> What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to 
>>> Reaktor’s Blocks that would
>>> allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate 
>>> developers to develop patches
>>> in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised 
>>> patches. 
>>> 
>>> Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. 
>>> But I wouldn’t want to
>>> spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could 
>>> do that using some other platform.
>>> 
>>> -Matti
>>> 
>>>> On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu 
>>>> <mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and
>>>> keep it a secret how the patch works.  I don't think people often feel the
>>>> need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
>>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> Miller
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
>>>>> But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can 
>>>>> you open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I only found this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
>>>>> https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone 
>>>>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone> 
>>>>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone 
>>>>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Matti
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
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> 
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Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

What about using Pd as a C/C++ library and writing the patch that way? Or 
perhaps LibPd?
Would this allow the patch to be compiled as a stand-alone program? Yes?

The easiest would be if there was a way to open a patch in binary form in Pd.

What I’ve been envisioning would be to create “modules” for Pd similar to 
Reaktor’s Blocks that would
allow for a more high-level patching and usage of Pd. And it could motivate 
developers to develop patches
in a more standardized “blocks” form, rather than as unstandardised patches. 

Reason, I’ve been wanting to see modular synthesis properly realised in Pd. But 
I wouldn’t want to
spend effort on developing modules that I cannot profit from, since I could do 
that using some other platform.

-Matti

> On 07 May 2016, at 20:29, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> 
> You'd have to modify Pd if you want to be able to run patches and
> keep it a secret how the patch works.  I don't think people often feel the
> need to do that but it wouldn't be hard to do.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:14:05PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
>> But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you 
>> open a Pd patch distributed as binary?
>> 
>> I only found this:
>> 
>> How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
>> https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone 
>> <https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>
>> 
>> -Matti
>> 


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Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

But how do you close and distribute a Pd patch so it’s not viewable? Can you 
open a Pd patch distributed as binary?

I only found this:
 <https://www.facebook.com/mviljamaa#>

How do I compile a Pd-patch to run as a stand-alone application?
https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone 
<https://puredata.info/docs/faq/standalone>

-Matti

> On 07 May 2016, at 19:53, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> 
> In fact Max uses some Pd code inside it.  I released Pd under BSD license
> partly to encourage that possibility.
> 
> Pd is also used as part of game audio engines (I think the first game to use
> it was Spore, perhaps 10 years ago).
> 
> So leverage away.  Your tax money pays my salary (at least, if you live in
> California it does :) so the product is there for you to use as you wish.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 07:14:49PM +0300, Matti Viljamaa wrote:
>> I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more 
>> attractive.
>> 
>> Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. 
>> Which can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since 
>> there’s a commercial incentive.
>> Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. 
>> Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.
>> 
>> -Matti
>> 
>> On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
>> <mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>>> So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development 
>>> for like your own personal gain? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
>>> Interactive Media & Education
>>> +1352.226.2016
>>> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ 
>>> <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development 
>>>> platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) 
>>>> are using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins.
>>>> But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open 
>>>> platform.
>>>> 
>>>> But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be 
>>>> some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or 
>>>> something worth looking at?
>>>> 
>>>> -Matti
>>>> ___
>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at> mailing list
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
>>>> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
>> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more attractive.

Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. Which 
can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since there’s a 
commercial incentive.
Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. 
Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.

-Matti

On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
<mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:

> So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development 
> for like your own personal gain? 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
> Interactive Media & Education
> +1352.226.2016
> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
> 
> 
> On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
> 
>> I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development 
>> platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are 
>> using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins.
>> But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open 
>> platform.
>> 
>> But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be 
>> some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something 
>> worth looking at?
>> 
>> -Matti
>> ___
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>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 
>> <https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>

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Re: [PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

I think if Pd was viable for many different users, it would be more attractive.

Commercial software is sometimes better quality than open source / free. Which 
can lend to better tools being developed for the platform since there’s a 
commercial incentive.
Wonder e.g. why the Max platform is more popular, even if its commercial. 
Commerciality isn’t stopping people from using it.

-Matti

On May 7, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu 
<mailto:p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>> wrote:

> So like you'd use like years and years and years of open source development 
> for like your own personal gain? 
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
> Interactive Media & Education
> +1352.226.2016
> https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/ <https://patrickrpagano.wordpress.com/>
> 
> 
> On May 7, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
> 
>> I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development 
>> platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are 
>> using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins.
>> But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open 
>> platform.
>> 
>> But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be 
>> some sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something 
>> worth looking at?
>> 
>> -Matti
>> ___
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[PD] Can you close source of Pd patches (for commercial development)?

[Matti Viljamaa]

I’ve been thinking about the feasibility of leveraging Pd as a development 
platform for commercial patches. Sort of like some (e.g. Twisted Tools) are 
using Reaktor for developing commercial-grade plug-ins.
But instead of Reaktor I could rather use Pd, because it’s a more open platform.

But if the development is for commercial purposes, there would need to be some 
sort of mechanism for closing the source. Is this possible or something worth 
looking at?

-Matti
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Re: [PD] Is there a site that classifies publicly available Pd patches by popularity or rating?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Aha.

This might be it:

http://patchstorage.com <http://patchstorage.com/>


> On 06 Mar 2016, at 19:44, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> So I’m trying to go through all kinds of interesting patches that are 
> available for Pd, but I’m finding it cumbersome to have to try out everything 
> that I find in order find out whether it’s good or bad.
> 
> Which got me thinking, is there a resource that could list publicly available 
> Pd patches based on popularity and/or rating?
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[PD] Is there a site that classifies publicly available Pd patches by popularity or rating?

[Matti Viljamaa]

So I’m trying to go through all kinds of interesting patches that are available 
for Pd, but I’m finding it cumbersome to have to try out everything that I find 
in order find out whether it’s good or bad.

Which got me thinking, is there a resource that could list publicly available 
Pd patches based on popularity and/or rating?
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Re: [PD] How does n-Track Studio manage to get past the "single instance" problem of Pure Data?

[Matti Viljamaa]

http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/9664/pure-data-vst3-in-n-track-studio-beta-8-based-on-libpd/2
 
<http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/9664/pure-data-vst3-in-n-track-studio-beta-8-based-on-libpd/2>

Here it’s claimed to involve n-Track Bridge?

Any guesses what’s it about?

> On 23 Feb 2016, at 03:28, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> So I found out today that n-Track has a working PdVST implementation that 
> handles multiple instances as well as generates very nice GUIs.
> 
> How do they manage the multiple instance, if it’s a limitation in Pure Data? 
> Any ideas?
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[PD] How does N-track manage to get past the "single instance" problem of Pure Data?

[Matti Viljamaa]

So I found out today that N-track has a working PdVST implementation that 
handles multiple instances as well as generates very nice GUIs.

How do they manage the multiple instance, if it’s a limitation in Pure Data? 
Any ideas?
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[PD] How's Pd limited?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Perhaps a bit of broad question, but I find it interesting in order to 
speculate about future additions.

How do you think Pure Data is limited?
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[PD] Pd GUI elements as image files?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Anyone know if the Pd GUI elements would be available somewhere as those 
“frames” image files such as created by the Knobman application?



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[PD] libpd: Is the multiple instance support such that could be utilised already using the C lib or will there be a more complete way of "managing instances"?

[Matti Viljamaa]

I’m participating in the development of Pd Pulp and was thinking of whether I 
could use the experimental multiple instance support already in a VST context.

Any ideas?
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[PD] libpd: Is there a way to check, whether a patch is opened in pd::PdBase or not?

[Matti Viljamaa]

It seems to me that libpd crashes if one closes a patch 
(PdBase::closePatch(patch)) and then something (such as a constantly running 
“processBlock” -loop) calls PdBase::processFloat (or any of the other 
process-functions).

Therefore, is there a built-in way to check whether the patch is loaded or not, 
that is, whether libpd can process audio or not?



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[PD] libpd: Reasonable test patches for testing libpd?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Anyone have an idea what kind of patch to use for testing whether libpd is 
functioning correctly?

I tried:

[osc~ 440] -> [dac~]

but since I’m not sure whether audio works yet, I’d like to test it on an array 
of 1.0s or something whose output I should know in advance.

I’m currently getting some output, but I’m not sure if it’s the output of [osc~ 
440] -> [dac~] or merely some other noise since the values are e.g.:
2.1230615182310281E-314
-1.4044477616124616E+306
…



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Re: [PD] libpd: pdengine->openPatch() leads to Thread 1: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (code=1, address=0x28)

[Matti Viljamaa]

Ok this is fixed.
I don’t know how though, the code given given earlier works, but it seemed that 
somehow I had switched two of the lines to (which are in the wrong order)

>> patch = pdengine->openPatch("testpatches/sine.pd", ".”);
>> pdengine->init (/*NInChannels()*/ 0, 2, GetSampleRate());


> On 19 Feb 2016, at 07:16, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> The specific line in libpd is:
> 
> int canvas_suspend_dsp(void)
> {
> int rval = pd_this->pd_dspstate; <- This one gives the EXC_BAD_ACCESS
> if (rval) canvas_stop_dsp();
> return (rval);
> }
> 
> in pure-data/src/g_canvas.c
> 
> 
>> On 19 Feb 2016, at 06:55, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi 
>> <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m trying to test libpd out by merely having it read a patch with [osc~ 
>> 440] -> [dac~]
>> 
>> I’m currently doing:
>> 
>>  pdengine = new pd::PdBase();
>>   
>>  pdengine->init (/*NInChannels()*/ 0, 2, GetSampleRate());
>> 
>>  patch = pdengine->openPatch("testpatches/sine.pd", ".");
>> 
>>  // audio processing on
>>  pdengine->computeAudio(true);
>> 
>> and so on.
>> 
>> The line:
>> 
>>  patch = pdengine->openPatch("testpatches/sine.pd", ".");
>> 
>> gives
>> 
>> Thread 1: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (code=1, address=0x28) on pdengine->openPatch()
>> 
>> the testpatches folder exists at “." and contains sine.pd.
>> 
>> What’s wrong?
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Re: [PD] libpd: pdengine->openPatch() leads to Thread 1: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (code=1, address=0x28)

[Matti Viljamaa]

The specific line in libpd is:

int canvas_suspend_dsp(void)
{
int rval = pd_this->pd_dspstate; <- This one gives the EXC_BAD_ACCESS
if (rval) canvas_stop_dsp();
return (rval);
}

in pure-data/src/g_canvas.c


> On 19 Feb 2016, at 06:55, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> I’m trying to test libpd out by merely having it read a patch with [osc~ 440] 
> -> [dac~]
> 
> I’m currently doing:
> 
>   pdengine = new pd::PdBase();
>   
>   pdengine->init (/*NInChannels()*/ 0, 2, GetSampleRate());
> 
>   patch = pdengine->openPatch("testpatches/sine.pd", ".");
> 
>   // audio processing on
>   pdengine->computeAudio(true);
> 
> and so on.
> 
> The line:
> 
>   patch = pdengine->openPatch("testpatches/sine.pd", ".");
> 
> gives
> 
> Thread 1: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (code=1, address=0x28) on pdengine->openPatch()
> 
> the testpatches folder exists at “." and contains sine.pd.
> 
> What’s wrong?
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[PD] libpd: How to buffer processFloat/processDouble calls?

[Matti Viljamaa]

How should processFloat/processDouble calls be buffered. If I’m getting input 
(and require output) at some nFrames chunks and libpd’s blocksize is 64, then 
how should I handle it so that input/output occurs in sync and without gaps.

I see there’s a ring buffer implementation in the lib:

https://github.com/libpd/libpd/blob/master/libpd_wrapper/util/ringbuffer.c 


Now how to use that for example for buffering correctly?

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[PD] libpd: Can you adjust Pd's block size?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Can you adjust Pd’s block size, which is claimed to be 64 by default? How’s one 
supposed to do e.g. FFT processing in 64 sample blocks?

https://github.com/libpd/libpd/wiki/libpd#audio-processing-with-pd 


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[PD] libpd: Does libpd use voice allocation / how does libpd handle polyphony?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Do I need to do something in order to have libpd support polyphony or can I 
merely send all notes to PdBase::sendNoteOn and it will also handle chords?

—

I’m using the C++ headers.
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[PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Matti Viljamaa]

Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether discussion board 
threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and not good) sound just have 
people who haven’t listened to good patches?

-Matti



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Re: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?

[Matti Viljamaa]

At the very least it could be interesting to figure out what’s causing the 
“lesser quality” sound perception.

Then perhaps make a .pd patch containing “high quality implementations”.

I’m not talking about effects, but more like the “basics” such as oscillators 
and whether they’re somehow fixed to sound “Pd”, or whether it’s possible to 
model better (or any kind of) sounds in Pd.

-Matti

> On 15 Feb 2016, at 01:09, Samuel Burt <composer.samuel.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If anything Pd's sound would be related to its 64 sample block size that is 
> mostly evident when people don't use sample rate line~ objects to smooth 
> their signals.
> 
> I'd say many other audio environments provide easy tools for dynamics 
> management, reverberation, and EQ. This creates a particular sound for those 
> environments. The fact that you have to build these from scratch in Pd causes 
> me to assume that the easiest to build routines for these purposes would 
> influence the sound of neophyte patches, but as people develope more 
> sophisticated and original processes, there would be a significant diverging 
> of sonic characteristics between patches.
> 
> One final thing that might influence the "sound" of Pd or Max is the use of 
> whole numbers to represent frequencies and time values that are determined in 
> milliseconds. This might make a lot of patches sound like they are based on 
> the harmonic spectrum of 1Hz. 
> 
> TLDR: If you want a more sophisticated sound, use line~ objects to smooth 
> signal rate control of audio processes, build your own dynamics management, 
> reverberation, and filter told, and make sure to use a variety of floating 
> point numbers or other special ratios to determine frequencies and durations. 
> At this point, I don't think people could tell your sound came from Pd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 00:27:08 +0200
> From: Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi <mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>>
> To: Pd-List <pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?
> Message-ID: <d9a862c4-2f6e-4bfb-9d7d-b48a0dec5...@kapsi.fi 
> <mailto:d9a862c4-2f6e-4bfb-9d7d-b48a0dec5...@kapsi.fi>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound to it? Or whether discussion board 
> threads claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and not good) sound just have 
> people who haven’t listened to good patches?
> 
> -Matti
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 23:32:18 +0100
> From: Antoine Rousseau <anto...@metalu.net <mailto:anto...@metalu.net>>
> To: Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing
> objects by Alexandre Porres
> Message-ID:
> <caocg5hwdcssryadkw9mq1qvv-livxdyfkvzyzav2e1mh7zn...@mail.gmail.com 
> <mailto:caocg5hwdcssryadkw9mq1qvv-livxdyfkvzyzav2e1mh7zn...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I've only partially followed all this discussion (not using Max myself),
> but maybe an object I wrote could help you building such abstractions :
> 
> [moonlib/dinlet~] is an [inlet~] with an init float value (constant signal)
> as an argument.
> This default value is overloaded when a signal is connected to the inlet,
> but restored when the signal is disconnected. A float sent to it would
> overwrite the default constant value.
> 
> Of course the init default value could be one of the abstraction's
> arguments ($xxx)...
> 
> BUT :
> 
> - there is a very little hack (which could be called a bugfix...) that has
> to be made to pd source (this change is written in comment in the source
> file of dinlet~). I should open a ticket for that in the sourceforge repo.
> The involved bug is mixing the different float values up when [dinlet~] is
> used together with normal [inlet]s.
> 
> - I should add a missing feature in dinlet~, which would add an inlet to
> the [dinlet~] object itself, to allow changing the default value inside of
> the abstraction.
> 
> If anyone think this would be helpful, I could do this (open a ticket and
> update moonlib about this missing inlet).
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-02-14 20:29 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> >:
> 
> > > Why not simply have an inlet that can handle both inside an abstraction
> > and route signal one way and number the other and then sprinkle that with
> > dynamic nlet creation and you're done? Then you can simply ab

Re: [PD] Dialogs such as Preferences and Audio Settings hang (Mac OS X 10.10)

[Matti Viljamaa]

I tried 0-46.7 and in the 32bit version the lag was even more prominent.

In the 64bit version there was noticeably less lag or no lag.

One thing I’ve been thinking is that Bigwig Studio has been giving me some port 
audio errors lately. PureData seems to be using port audio as well. Just if 
that driver might have been corrupted somehow.

-Matti 

> On 05 Feb 2016, at 16:16, IOhannes zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:
> 
> Am 05. Februar 2016 01:07:23 MEZ, schrieb Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi>:
>> I’ve noticed that Pd 0.43 seems to create some abnormal “hanging” on
>> (my install of) OS X 10.10.
>> 
> 
> Do you experience the same problem with Pd-0.46? (0.43 was released a 
> *couple* of years ago...)
> 
> 
> 
> mfg.ugd.fhj
> IOhannes
> 
> --
> Sent from my pdp-11
> 
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[PD] Dialogs such as Preferences and Audio Settings hang (Mac OS X 10.10)

[Matti Viljamaa]

I’ve noticed that Pd 0.43 seems to create some abnormal “hanging” on (my 
install of) OS X 10.10.

E.g. if I open Preferences and then try to exit the dialog by pressing any of 
the buttons, nothing happens (the buttons can be pressed, but the dialog 
doesn’t disappear). And it blogs all other actions as well, while it hangs. 
Most dialogs seem to be doing this.

It takes about half a minute until the dialog suddenly disappears. Like there’s 
a huge time lag between the press and when the dialog actually disappears.

Any ideas what might be causing this?

-Matti
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[PD] Is there a working Pd -> VST implementation?

[Matti Viljamaa]

I found some references of PdVST (https://puredata.info/downloads/pdvst 
), but it seemed to be only for Windows 
and all the info seemed outdated.

Is there some active implementation for running Pd in DAWs?

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